Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism - Page 31
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  1. #601

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Its weird that youíd be for polygamous marriages, even from a utilitarian perspective itís PLAIN wrong, it leads to social unrest because some men donít get any women.
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    lmao he is the baby in your picture

  2. #602

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Its weird that you’d be for polygamous marriages, even from a utilitarian perspective it’s PLAIN wrong, it leads to social unrest because some men don’t get any women.
    "leads to social unrest" LMAO

    that's some neckbeard tier shit right there.

    anyways, I'm for people doing whatever they like with other consenting people of age, life is meant to be enjoyed, forcing arbitrary rules and labels upon oneself is restrictive more often than it is helpful or enjoyable.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    deathworld's and RLVG's suicides made me lul. I take a lot of pleasure in knowing that I gave you an night action, and that you used it to kill yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    At least Mesk has lewdy lefty and raunchy righty. You're not even Canadian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    BRO HUUUUUUMP!! That's so Mesk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    fucketh me in the ass

  3. #603

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Divorce is generally wrong, and thereís no escaping that.
    Is it worse for two people to separate who are unhappy so they can find happiness; or for them to suffer and have a less fulfilling life on principal?

    And what if its worse for the child who has to live in a hostile environment vs them separating and having 2 peaceful environments?

    How about if you get roofied in Vegas and wake up married? Should you spend the rest of your life with that person on principal although you were drugged and basically never consented to be married?

    Regardless why do you believe divorce is wrong at all? Like.. Where does your perceived 'wrongness' come from if two people both want their relationship to end? What makes it wrong at all to you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    if we could just stop catering to the toxic attitude and apathy that has become the culture of this site.
    Its easy to tear something down. Building something real takes a level of conviction and dedication that is not cool or fun.

  4. #604

  5. #605

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Do yíall react just to it being banned/or not by religion cuz if thatís the reason then I get it but I canít really argue with that stance.
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    lmao he is the baby in your picture

  6. #606

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Do y’all react just to it being banned/or not by religion cuz if that’s the reason then I get it but I can’t really argue with that stance.
    I provided my own reasoning arsehole
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    deathworld's and RLVG's suicides made me lul. I take a lot of pleasure in knowing that I gave you an night action, and that you used it to kill yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    At least Mesk has lewdy lefty and raunchy righty. You're not even Canadian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    BRO HUUUUUUMP!! That's so Mesk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    fucketh me in the ass

  7. #607

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Couldnt have said it better myself, although do you think the Vatican is still evil nowadays?
    Kinda. I believe actions speak louder than words and the Vatican has an extremely long history of manipulating religion for power and wealth. They are currently the wealthiest organization in the world by a massive margin.

    I think it would be more fair to look at them as a for-profit company. Drop any religious pretense and they function like many governments- doing what they feel they can get away with for profit and spinning history to put a good face on their actions. Its not that they are dedicated to doing evil, they just do it as a product of their greed to hold onto power.

    I have often wondered if there are branches of the Catholic church who reject the control of the Vatican and do their own thing
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    if we could just stop catering to the toxic attitude and apathy that has become the culture of this site.
    Its easy to tear something down. Building something real takes a level of conviction and dedication that is not cool or fun.

  8. #608

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by deathworlds View Post
    What's wrong with polygamy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Itís pretty misogynistic in my view.
    Quote Originally Posted by deathworlds View Post
    It's pretty misogynistic to think that polygamy is strictly one man and multiple women
    This is a fair point. I have 3 good friends that are in a 3 way relationship. All of them are girls and they make it work just fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    if we could just stop catering to the toxic attitude and apathy that has become the culture of this site.
    Its easy to tear something down. Building something real takes a level of conviction and dedication that is not cool or fun.

  9. #609

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Is it worse for two people to separate who are unhappy so they can find happiness; or for them to suffer and have a less fulfilling life on principal?

    And what if its worse for the child who has to live in a hostile environment vs them separating and having 2 peaceful environments?

    How about if you get roofied in Vegas and wake up married? Should you spend the rest of your life with that person on principal although you were drugged and basically never consented to be married?

    Regardless why do you believe divorce is wrong at all? Like.. Where does your perceived 'wrongness' come from if two people both want their relationship to end? What makes it wrong at all to you?
    I just think itís very harmful, and I can totally see why people say divorce is wrong. There are definitely some situations where divorce is preferable, but Iím saying, maybe people screwed up somewhere. I think that if itís possible to salvage your relationship and you are afraid of getting a divorce, you should definitely fight for it and see if itís possible and desirable for the relationship to continue.

    Its a complicated issue. Itís not wholly wrong, but it has an ugly tinge to it. You shouldnít spend the rest of your life with someone you donít like. My point is, you should try to minimize the number of divorces you have to go through. Theyíre not pretty. And they can be pretty damaging. They shouldnít be viewed as a get-out-if-jail-free card if things go south.

    With regards to your last post: of course if both parties agree that a marriage should end, then divorce ainít bad, although, again, thereís the situation where maybe divorce wasnít the right thing to do. Many people experience regret after getting a divorce (over 22%). Itís really not an easy decision to make. More power to you if you decide to leave a relationship thatís not good for you. But thereís a fine line between doing that and just going through many failed marriages.
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    lmao he is the baby in your picture

  10. #610

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by deathworlds View Post
    I provided my own reasoning arsehole
    Lol its just that, I was expecting people to agree with me about it and Iím confused that that is controversial.
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    lmao he is the baby in your picture

  11. #611

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    I just think itís very harmful, and I can totally see why people say divorce is wrong. There are definitely some situations where divorce is preferable, but Iím saying, maybe people screwed up somewhere. I think that if itís possible to salvage your relationship and you are afraid of getting a divorce, you should definitely fight for it and see if itís possible and desirable for the relationship to continue.

    Its a complicated issue. Itís not wholly wrong, but it has an ugly tinge to it. You shouldnít spend the rest of your life with someone you donít like. My point is, you should try to minimize the number of divorces you have to go through. Theyíre not pretty. And they can be pretty damaging. They shouldnít be viewed as a get-out-if-jail-free card if things go south.

    With regards to your last post: of course if both parties agree that a marriage should end, then divorce ainít bad, although, again, thereís the situation where maybe divorce wasnít the right thing to do. Many people experience regret after getting a divorce (over 22%). Itís really not an easy decision to make. More power to you if you decide to leave a relationship thatís not good for you. But thereís a fine line between doing that and just going through many failed marriages.
    The only objective wrong I have seen with Divorce was in the antiquated practice of hereditary transfer of wealth. Back then it was extremely important to know exactly who's kid someone was and Divorces were a huge problem because wealth was transferred through family lines.

    I just dont think some people are cut out for long term relationships. If you consider that every 7 years pretty much every atom in your body did not exist there 7 years ago and 100% of the biological cells that were alive 7 years ago you are a totally different person. So along those lines isnt it fair to say that the person who entered the marriage no longer exists unless you believe in the soul?
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    if we could just stop catering to the toxic attitude and apathy that has become the culture of this site.
    Its easy to tear something down. Building something real takes a level of conviction and dedication that is not cool or fun.

  12. #612

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    I can see why someone would say divorce is immoral. Theres many wrong things about divorce; first the fact that you arrived at the point where divorce is the only way forward shows that something seriously wrong happened somewhere. Either they married the wrong person or something horrible happened after marriage. Itís also not okay to leave your children behind just because you cannot reconcile with the other person.

    Of course, divorce should be legal and Iím not claiming otherwise. But I definitely think that religious people have a point when they say divorce is wrong (it is, and thereís absolutely no question about it). You canít just dismiss it.
    You conflated immorality with wrong. When you say something could be immoral you followed it up by saying how it's wrong therefore affirming the immorality of it, then agreed personally that it's wrong. Yes you did say after this divorce is not immoral, but do you see why I'm pretty skeptical of your response? I still stand by that your post where you said it isn't immoral is disgusting and exactly why I question if you truly do think divorce isn't immoral.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Alcoholics Anonymous has practicing atheists who use the word "God" as their 'higher power' that keeps them sober. It can be simple things like their Kids or their Life/Sanity. From what you are saying it sounds like you are just getting hung up on semantics because you want to push the Atheist faith. How is that any different than pushing a religion? In that regard spirituality goes out the window and its just about 'us vs them' on both sides.
    My point was that I never understood that drive to say "I do not believe in any God and I want to push this belief on those who do." I get that religions are all too often really disgusting things but they provide some basic functions I believe every human should practice. The simple process of challenging your belief structure and reconciling your behavior to your belief structure is just a healthy human practice. If someone does it and ties it into what you see as an imaginary sky man why do you feel the drive to push against that?
    One of the angles I push is that religion is a healthy and beautiful thing but the power structures that manipulate it are really evil. For example I believe the Vatican is easily the most evil organizations that has ever existed in documented history but I think Catholicism brings many people morality, peace, and comfort. I would rather you just ask me about my beliefs than take one word I say and assume my belief structure and therefor agenda in the future.
    I'm not an atheist. Pretty easy to make the mistake of assuming eh. A religious motto within a secular state. I don't see how anyone can come to the conclusion that this isn't going against what a secular state actually means. Blows my mind.

  13. #613

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    If so thatís my mistake. Itís not immoral; I think religious people are wrong to ascribe that trait to it. But I think they have some legitimate grievances to be heard.
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    lmao he is the baby in your picture

  14. #614

  15. #615

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    My understanding is that it was part of the treaty signed after the civil war to bind the states back into America and it was also written into every state that was formed by virtue of the states being formed on land that was essentially owned by America. The difference between that and war at the time of sucession was that the sates entered into the nation bringing their land and they therefor had no obligation in any way to America.No clue where you got that from so.. Shrug?There were wrongs on all sides but I think the best thing would have been if the Union actually had the intentions they pretend to have had today. As I have said many times I believe that the morality of an action is defined by the intention behind the action. So yes declaring war on the south is unjustified but I would view it as totally acceptable if the objective actually was to enforce human rights. The problem was that it wasn't. It was just a play for greed that costed hundreds of thousands of lives.

    Think of it this way- Its wrong to kill someone because you want their wallet but its justified to kill someone to prevent them from doing an extreme evil.

    The difference is the intention and thats why I get all pissy about people acting like the Union was good and the Confederacy was evil. They were both committing some very evil actions for greed and power.
    I was asking what you think actually should have happened, my man. No dancing around with weird morality arguments, because nothing gets done that way. What, concretely, do you think the Union should have done when the Confederacy seceded? What should they have done differently?

    EDIT: Forgot to address the first part of your post. From my understanding, only unilateral secession was found to be illegal by the Supreme Court. I'll argue with that in mind.

    Your two arguments against any other territory (like CHAZ) seceding were the legality issue, as well as the issue of debt. The debt issue applied to the Confederacy because it wasn't like debt was invented after the Civil War, the Confederacy still had debt that they, by your logic, should have repaid to the Union. That leaves legality as your only stated reason for why secession of a territory like CHAZ is different from the Confederacy in terms of the federal government being an aggressor when it comes to recognizing them.
    Last edited by oops_ur_dead; June 29th, 2020 at 06:51 AM.

  16. #616

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Yeah and Mormonism is also for polygamy. I never understood why that religion exists. I really don’t like it either, and I’m glad I’m not the only one.
    Quote Originally Posted by deathworlds View Post
    What's wrong with polygamy?
    The mormon eternal doctrine of celestial marriage is that a man can be "sealed to" multiple wives (mormon temple weddings, aka "sealings" say you are "sealed" to that person for all eternity), but a woman can only be "sealed to" one man. If she wants to marry another, even after he dies, she can marry him for this life only. Unless she decides to break the sealing with the husband that died. Then she can seal with the 2nd husband. But in the afterlife she can only be with 1 of them, whoever she is sealed to. So yeah, mormon polygamy is strictly 1 man, multiple wives.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  17. #617

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    If so that’s my mistake. It’s not immoral; I think religious people are wrong to ascribe that trait to it. But I think they have some legitimate grievances to be heard.
    The only reason we are discussing divorce again is because it was in one of my quotes that I was responding to mallow with lol, in which I also argued with secondpassing that divorce is neither a moral nor immoral act. This seems to happen a lot my dude, you'll see something that I say like:

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Religion has its own moral code. That moral code does not apply to everyone. So you can say "religion can and did give people morals to live by" but all it's doing is enforcing its own moral code.

    Why is divorce an immoral act? You know what's immoral? A religious leader telling an abused wife to give her husband another chance and stay in the marriage to avoid a divorce. You know what else is immoral? Someone breaking their marital vows and betraying their spouse's trust by going behind their spouses back to cheat on them for years. Wanna know another one? Staying in a loveless marriage because marriage is "moral".

    "Marriage" is not a moral act. It is neither moral nor immoral. Same with divorce. Unless you're religious, and your belief is that marriage is ordained of god, and that divorce is a sin.
    And your response is to argue against that. By not arguing that divorce is immoral.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  18. #618

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Oh I was referring to the application of polygamy within any singular culture or religion. I was simply referring to polygamy as a consensual romantic/sexual relationship involving more than 2 people.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    deathworld's and RLVG's suicides made me lul. I take a lot of pleasure in knowing that I gave you an night action, and that you used it to kill yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    At least Mesk has lewdy lefty and raunchy righty. You're not even Canadian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    BRO HUUUUUUMP!! That's so Mesk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    fucketh me in the ass

  19. #619

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by deathworlds View Post
    Oh I was referring to the application of polygamy within any singular culture or religion. I was simply referring to polygamy as a consensual romantic/sexual relationship involving more than 2 people.
    Yeh, I get you. I was just providing additional context to the specific religion in question, which is what Galeon was bringing up.

    I have no problem with polygamy between consensual adults. I do have a problem with religious leaders using a position of power to coerce multiple women into marrying them though. So it's a tricky subject because polygamy in the past has been abused in that way quite a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  20. #620

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    I was asking what you think actually should have happened, my man. No dancing around with weird morality arguments, because nothing gets done that way. What, concretely, do you think the Union should have done when the Confederacy seceded? What should they have done differently?

    EDIT: Forgot to address the first part of your post. From my understanding, only unilateral secession was found to be illegal by the Supreme Court. I'll argue with that in mind.

    Your two arguments against any other territory (like CHAZ) seceding were the legality issue, as well as the issue of debt. The debt issue applied to the Confederacy because it wasn't like debt was invented after the Civil War, the Confederacy still had debt that they, by your logic, should have repaid to the Union. That leaves legality as your only stated reason for why secession of a territory like CHAZ is different from the Confederacy in terms of the federal government being an aggressor when it comes to recognizing them.
    That is a very valid point. I was under the impression that the national debt was created after the civil war but it appears the nation owed roughly 65 million dollars. Granted that breaks down to roughly 2 dollars and some change per citizen but in today's numbers thats around 6k per person. If slaves are included the confederacy essentially skipped on a tab of 48 billion dollars in today's money.

    I get what you are asking but the entire issue is the morality. So concrete- Issue the Emancipation Proclamation while declaring war and have a war over human rights instead of greed.

    I think the civil war should have been prevented by the north but they would have had to make very different actions long before the south seceded. At that point it was just too late. They forced the south into a corner leveraging taxes favorably for the industrial sector. Combine that with some republicans pushing to end slavery and of course the south wanted to leave.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    if we could just stop catering to the toxic attitude and apathy that has become the culture of this site.
    Its easy to tear something down. Building something real takes a level of conviction and dedication that is not cool or fun.

 

 

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