Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism
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  1. #1
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Aka libertarianism vs conservatism.
    A study I recently read made two claims:
    a) Social conservatism is linked to lower IQ
    b) Disgust sensitivity strongly linked to social conservatism

    This study said that this does not apply to Ďeconomic liberalsí, who tend to vote for ostensibly conservative parties (like the Republican Party). I want to go further and argue that this means that economic liberals and conservatives have very little in common, and I have a very strong feeling the media has been trying to paint ALL right wingers as being conservative (and also racist nazis).

    I actually watch Tucker Carlson a lot and he has been attacked for Ďwhite nationalismí even though the guy literally denounces racism every. fucking. minute. I really think this is indicative of the far left being very influential in our society. When being right wing is equated with being a racist, there is a HUGE problem in society. I donít go around claiming all left wingers are communists...

    I absolutely hate how theyíre tying to make decent right-wing liberals hate their own views and trying to insinuate that they may be racist. For the longest time I actually had a huge problem with my own political views because I didnít fully understand them. Iím not a typical conservative but I am definitely not left wing, and at the same time Iím not some kind of Nazi, and never have been. I found it extremely problematic to explain my views even to myself as Iím very liberal but also very hard-right when it comes to economic issues, and Iím sympathetic to religion (although Iím not religious myself, and I donít like bigots - I grew up in a religiously bigoted country, and let me tell you itís no picnic man).

    Anyways, after having read that study I can no longer believe that right wing = conservative. Especially seeing as many left wingers were socially conservative (take a look at Che Guevara, or Stalin). Also, I remember reading that PC-authoritarians (basically people who try to stifle freedom of speech in the name of Ďequalityí) are high in orderliness, which is linked to conservatism - far left ideologues as well as far right ideologues are actually conservative.

    I just want to say, I think this culture of painting right wingers as nazis (more precisely, I think it has to do with economic liberalism) needs to stop because it is incredibly dangerous. I find the move GitHub has made to change the master/slave branches an example of this; they LITERALY have nothing to do with racism, and trying to find racist undertones in everything isnít not only counterproductive but I actually believe it to be immoral as well. Claiming that the West is a fundamentally racist civilization is not only absurd, it is immoral. We are LITERALLY the least racist society on the planet. And the left should really move back towards the center and worry about the poor, and stop pushing this absurd the-West-is-evil narrative.

  2. #2
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Anyways this is a bit of a rant but my question is:
    What do you feel about the idea that right-wing liberalism has nothing to do with conservatism?
    A second question is, why is the media trying to paint right wingers as immoral nazis?

  3. #3

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Claiming that the West is a fundamentally racist civilization is not only absurd, it is immoral. We are LITERALLY the least racist society on the planet. And the left should really move back towards the center and worry about the poor, and stop pushing this absurd the-West-is-evil narrative.
    I take issue with this because I don't think there are people that claim that Western civilization is worse than any other, outside of fringe extremists. Obviously there are societies with far worse problems, like China with racism and many parts of the Arab world for sexism. The reason people focus on western society is because that's where the people that you pay attention to live. Do other societies have more to improve on? Absolutely. But what can I do about it? Basically nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Anyways this is a bit of a rant but my question is:
    What do you feel about the idea that right-wing liberalism has nothing to do with conservatism?
    A second question is, why is the media trying to paint right wingers as immoral nazis?
    Despite your post where you try to separate conservatism from right-wing ideologies, you're still falling for the American-centric view of left vs right. You say "the left" should really move back towards the center and worry about the poor, which makes very little sense because the left is more concerned with economic equality than centrists. I wonder how much you actually understand these terms and the ideas of the left when you say stuff like this. In fact, I see race issues as being largely outside of the scope of left/right.

    I agree that right-wing liberalism has very little to do with conservatism. In the US, however, both have been consolidated into support for Republicans, which are a right-wing, authoritarian, conservative party. The media is hardly trying to paint right-wingers as immoral Nazis, after all, Fox News is the most watched news network in the US by almost double, and I doubt they paint right-wingers as Nazis. In a comparison to the Nazi party, you find a lot of people in the US who disagree with the conservative Republican rhetoric who like the Republicans for economic reasons. Just like how, in the rise of the Nazi party, a lot of their support were from lower-middle class people such as teachers and farmers who didn't care as much about their social policy but supported them for economic reasons. In hindsight, does that give them a pass?

  4. #4
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    I take issue with this because I don't think there are people that claim that Western civilization is worse than any other, outside of fringe extremists. Obviously there are societies with far worse problems, like China with racism and many parts of the Arab world for sexism. The reason people focus on western society is because that's where the people that you pay attention to live. Do other societies have more to improve on? Absolutely. But what can I do about it? Basically nothing.



    Despite your post where you try to separate conservatism from right-wing ideologies, you're still falling for the American-centric view of left vs right. You say "the left" should really move back towards the center and worry about the poor, which makes very little sense because the left is more concerned with economic equality than centrists. I wonder how much you actually understand these terms and the ideas of the left when you say stuff like this. In fact, I see race issues as being largely outside of the scope of left/right.

    I agree that right-wing liberalism has very little to do with conservatism. In the US, however, both have been consolidated into support for Republicans, which are a right-wing, authoritarian, conservative party. The media is hardly trying to paint right-wingers as immoral Nazis, after all, Fox News is the most watched news network in the US by almost double, and I doubt they paint right-wingers as Nazis. In a comparison to the Nazi party, you find a lot of people in the US who disagree with the conservative Republican rhetoric who like the Republicans for economic reasons. Just like how, in the rise of the Nazi party, a lot of their support were from lower-middle class people such as teachers and farmers who didn't care as much about their social policy but supported them for economic reasons. In hindsight, does that give them a pass?
    I just find the politics that are being played right now worrisome. Maybe they are not on the left or their primary, defining characteristic isnít their position on the left-right spectrum, but most of the people theyíre attacking tend to be on the right (usually moderate right, too; nobody attacks the actual far right because nobody cares about them, they actually are extremists lol).

    Like, itís mostly people on the right or people sympathetic to issues advanced by the right that are attacked. That leads me to think that the people doing the attacking are on the left (the RADICAL left, because they otherwise wouldnít be painting right wingers as nazis).

  5. #5

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Anyways this is a bit of a rant but my question is:
    What do you feel about the idea that right-wing liberalism has nothing to do with conservatism?
    A second question is, why is the media trying to paint right wingers as immoral nazis?
    Libertarians are socially liberal, right? Meaning pro gay marriage and such? Feel free to educate me or correct me here. I can respect libertarians. We can disagree on things like the economy and thats okay. No problem.

    As far a right wingers being painted as immoral nazis though. I mean, every white supremacist or neo nazi group is a far right conservative group. So while not all right wingers are going to fall into those categories obviously, theres a lot of common ground there. And if you defend the actions of such groups due to common ideals, its not a good look.

    Take the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville a few years back. This rally was literally organized by white supremacist, white nationalist, and neo nazi groups. People in the rally were literally carrying flags or wearing clothes with swastikas and other nazi symbols.

    Its simple. Don't want to be associated with nazis or white nationalists or white supremacists? Reject them. But like actually reject them. Trump declared of this rally that there were "good people" at the rally on both sides. When a "good person" would a) not support, attend, or DEFEND a rally organized by white supremacists, or b) if they didnt realize that the rally was organized by these groups, once they see the symbols and hear the chants they turn around and go home. How can you reject nazis but stand side by side with them and chant what they chant?

    Actions speak louder than words. Saying "I reject white supremecy" means nothing if you then defend a white supremacist rally. This is just one example of course. There'a no painting needed here.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  6. #6

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Anyways this is a bit of a rant but my question is:
    What do you feel about the idea that right-wing liberalism has nothing to do with conservatism?
    A second question is, why is the media trying to paint right wingers as immoral nazis?
    Because they don't do NEARLY enough to distance themselves from it.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  7. #7

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Because they don't do NEARLY enough to distance themselves from it.
    Err, going to be a bit more clear here.

    Because American conservatives don't do nearly enough to distance themselves from Nazis that go to and support right-wing rallies.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  8. #8

  9. #9
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Because they don't do NEARLY enough to distance themselves from it.
    And left wingers do? There is a worrying lack of reaction on the left nowadays when it comes to major social issues such as the riots in America; and these riots are all parts of a greater whole. A couple in the US got painted by the media as racists for defending their home against looters who broke into their yard. It was actually quite astonishing to see the differences in the portrayal of that event between CNN and Tucker (Iím not counting Fox News as a whole because I only watch Tucker, and sometimes Ingraham).

    There are many other examples, and I doubt I am in the wrong here. The left really is more radical than the right nowadays. I believe that the elements of the radical right that exist today arose as a response to ideological excesses on the left. This is not to excuse them of course, but theyíve played a major role in polarization.

    Take climate change for instance. There is a really high chance that climate change will not be a significant disaster this century. If you take a look at various statistics the environmentalists like to peddle as a) evidence of human influence on the climate and b) evidence of a major humanistic catastrophe occurring later, youíll find that many of them have no actual basis in reality. There is evidence to suggest that humans are influencing the climate to a significant extent, but the evidence also says that carbon emissions are actually decreasing (and its not because of green energy): developed countries are now switching to cleaner power sources like uranium and natural gas, which do not pollute. Thereís a plethora of other reasons, all arising from increase industrialization, technological development and economic growth: forests have actually started growing back in Europe and America, precisely because agriculture has become more efficient and needs less space. I see apocalyptic environmentalism as coming precisely from the left, and more exactly, itís coning from people who I do not trust: a poll revealed that a significant proportion of British children were convinced that they wouldnít live past the age of 30 (because of climate change).

    This is just an example of many.

  10. #10

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    And left wingers do? There is a worrying lack of reaction on the left nowadays when it comes to major social issues such as the riots in America; and these riots are all parts of a greater whole.
    Left winger views don't align with nazis, who are far right wingers. So the answer is yes, left wingers distance themselves literally on the other end of the political spectrum.

    Not all right wingers are nazis. But nazis ARE right wingers.

    What viewpoints do nazis espouse that align with the left?
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  11. #11
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Left winger views don't align with nazis, who are far right wingers. So the answer is yes, left wingers distance themselves literally on the other end of the political spectrum.

    Not all right wingers are nazis. But nazis ARE right wingers.

    What viewpoints do nazis espouse that align with the left?
    My point is that the left does even less than the right to distance themselves from their rabid, dangerous, radical cousins.

  12. #12

  13. #13

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    My point is that radicalization, while it exists on both sides, is worse on the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Anyways this is a bit of a rant but my question is:
    What do you feel about the idea that right-wing liberalism has nothing to do with conservatism?
    A second question is, why is the media trying to paint right wingers as immoral nazis?
    so the answer to "why is the media painting right wingers as nazis" is "radicalizations are on both sides and the left is worse"? That's not an answer, thats fallacious distracting.

    It seems like your responses are more suited to a separate thread where you post the statement: "Left wing radicalizations are worse than right radicalizations for reasons x, y, z". One of those reasons being climate change or something. Another reason could be that rioting is better than nazi-ism.

    That is not what you asked, and you did nothing to disprove my answer, nor agreed with it. I think my reasoning is spot on.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  14. #14

  15. #15

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Why are you all having the same arguements but starting at different points of the arguement.

    Can we just skip a couple of chapters like nation health a good idea and stuff?
    yes... pls can we tax the rich billionnaires just a little . I just want them to pay taxes too... I love Bill Gates he's such a GOOD PERSON for GIVING all that money FOR FREE but pls I just want him to pay his taxes... Why is this so hard DX

    And maybe fine them of all of their wealth for tax-evading their entire lives, selling out our country's economies to hire slaves abroad and spitting in the face of society? :3

    Oh wait hold on they released a statement declaring racism is bad awwh wow they're so kind and brave nvm then I guess..
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  16. #16
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Why are you all having the same arguements but starting at different points of the arguement.

    Can we just skip a couple of chapters like nation health a good idea and stuff?
    What do you mean?
    Are you talking about health care? Thatís an important discussion to have and I do support health care to some extent although I donít think we should spend too much on it. I am not rich but I canít see my good health being a right I am entitled to. I do think having a minimal public health care system is useful, but only to eliminate inequality for those who REALLY canít afford private health insurance (e.g. those who explicitly cannot work for whatever reason).

  17. #17
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    The thing is, those neo nazis are in the minority. Looking at the media youíd honestly get the feeling that everyone who is right wing is a nazi. People say that Niger Farage is a Nazi, and honestly until I actually checked him out I thought he was one too. He explicitly condemns nazis and commented in the Charlottesville incident by saying that he thought it was unbelievable Nazi salutes were happening in America; he also specifically stated he didnít agree with Trumpís stance on immigration from Muslim countries, and feels that its okay to accept Muslim immigrants so long as theyíre not extremist. He is no Nazi and yet he is touted as some huge racist...

    I think Trump has the same problem. He actually did specifically condemn white nationalists at Charlottesville, and clarified that he was referring to the people who didnít want Robert E Lee statues torn down. Personally I actually agree with him but thatís beside the point: he specifically condemned them.

    And, everywhere I look if you donít agree with the media or with hard left stances like white privilege and affirmative action, youíre instantly attacked and labeled a racist/xenophobe/white nationalist. Honestly that term has lost its meaning.

    My point is, the direction we are heading towards us worrisome. Sorry if my tone is a little extreme at times, I honestly am a bit of a bitch and I kind of enjoy being somewhat trolly, so thatís kinda why Iím so aggressive with these matters lol.

  18. #18

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    The thing is, those neo nazis are in the minority. Looking at the media youíd honestly get the feeling that everyone who is right wing is a nazi. People say that Niger Farage is a Nazi, and honestly until I actually checked him out I thought he was one too. He explicitly condemns nazis and commented in the Charlottesville incident by saying that he thought it was unbelievable Nazi salutes were happening in America; he also specifically stated he didnít agree with Trumpís stance on immigration from Muslim countries, and feels that its okay to accept Muslim immigrants so long as theyíre not extremist. He is no Nazi and yet he is touted as some huge racist...

    I think Trump has the same problem. He actually did specifically condemn white nationalists at Charlottesville, and clarified that he was referring to the people who didnít want Robert E Lee statues torn down. Personally I actually agree with him but thatís beside the point: he specifically condemned them.

    And, everywhere I look if you donít agree with the media or with hard left stances like white privilege and affirmative action, youíre instantly attacked and labeled a racist/xenophobe/white nationalist. Honestly that term has lost its meaning.

    My point is, the direction we are heading towards us worrisome. Sorry if my tone is a little extreme at times, I honestly am a bit of a bitch and I kind of enjoy being somewhat trolly, so thatís kinda why Iím so aggressive with these matters lol.
    See this is exactly what I'm talking about. Condemning something is meaningless if you then turn around and defend the very thing you are condemning. Words are cheap that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  19. #19
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Honestly corporative malpractice is something I cannot really discuss because I donít know enough about it, although my suspicion is that itís exaggerated.

  20. #20
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    There are some worrisome corporations out there, like Google. Or Facebook. Something needs to be done about the flow of information lol because itís honestly not going in the right direction at all. Kind of ironic that a major corporation would essentially become a nexus of extremism and authoritarianism, but, weirder things have happened.

  21. #21

  22. #22
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    Ideological warfare needs to end and class warfare needs to begin.
    American Revolution hype 2020
    Workers of the world unite

  23. #23
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    It actually makes me think monopolies can be dangerous, although I suppose it depends on a case by case basis. The worst thing really is that they have a near monopoly on information, which is absolutely deplorable, it’s against free speech. I’m somewhat surprised they’ve lasted this long.

  24. #24
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    If you want another example, many in the US have lost their jobs for criticizing BLM. This is something the right has had an issue with for years now; thatís why I think itís an attack on the right.

  25. #25
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Sadly I feel that many of the people doing the attacking donít really know what theyíre doing and are probably thinking theyíre doing the right thing lol. Doesnít take much to indoctrinate someone who is young.

  26. #26

  27. #27
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    And that's why a national living wage is a good idea.
    Iím not sure what that solves.
    This will be a very insensitive thing to say, (remember Iím not rich by any stretch of the imagination, Iím actually rather poor rn), but: I donít think that people who donít know what to do with money should be give any money. Free healthcare, schooling etc is a good idea, but only up to s point. I donít think having a minimum wage is a good idea.

  28. #28

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Iím not sure what that solves.
    This will be a very insensitive thing to say, (remember Iím not rich by any stretch of the imagination, Iím actually rather poor rn), but: I donít think that people who donít know what to do with money should be give any money. Free healthcare, schooling etc is a good idea, but only up to s point. I donít think having a minimum wage is a good idea.
    Yeah and you think those people getting billions know what the hell to do with that either? The government and the mega-wealthy are always pedalling the notion that they know best, when time and time again they've demonstrated they do not. Some people may spend some of their wage on narcotics and shit, but they would still overall spend that money better than some massive institution actively funding political propaganda or toppling foreign regimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  29. #29
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    Yeah and you think those people getting billions know what the hell to do with that either? The government and the mega-wealthy are always pedalling the notion that they know best, when time and time again they've demonstrated they do not. Some people may spend some of their wage on narcotics and shit, but they would still overall spend that money better than some massive institution actively funding political propaganda or toppling foreign regimes.
    They probably do for the most part, yes, although I cannot attest to that. Which companies and how many actually do the things youíve accused them of?

  30. #30

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    They probably do for the most part, yes, although I cannot attest to that. Which companies and how many actually do the things you’ve accused them of?
    The toppling foreign regimes was about the government, though the defense industry and oil industry indirectly contribute to that through lobbying. When I said "political propaganda" I was specifically thinking of all the propaganda the Koch Brothers funds discrediting climate change. Though more broadly anyone who pours lots of money into mainstream media company's pockets through ad revenue is contributing "political propaganda". Mainstream media outlets are incentivized not to question economic power due to the source of their ad revenue.

    Just look out how soft all the left wing media outlets were on Michael Bloomberg, a racist, sexist oligarch who fundamentally opposes everything anyone remotely left wing stands for. They gave him a total free pass because he put 10s of millions into their pockets by paying for his political ads.
    Last edited by yzb25; June 22nd, 2020 at 04:21 AM. Reason: typos
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  31. #31

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Iím not sure what that solves.
    This will be a very insensitive thing to say, (remember Iím not rich by any stretch of the imagination, Iím actually rather poor rn), but: I donít think that people who donít know what to do with money should be give any money. Free healthcare, schooling etc is a good idea, but only up to s point. I donít think having a minimum wage is a good idea.
    Jebus. Christ.

    Poor people deserve to be poor because they don't know how to handle money. Yes I'm not shocked at all you only watch Cucker Carlson.

  32. #32
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Itís just, I donít know maybe Iím just too paranoid, but donít you guys feel like there is a legitimate issue with how the moderate right is being attacked now, and specially how the West is being attacked? This white guilt narrative is a huge part of that. The idea that the west is a patriarchy is one, too.

  33. #33

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Itís just, I donít know maybe Iím just too paranoid, but donít you guys feel like there is a legitimate issue with how the moderate right is being attacked now, and specially how the West is being attacked? This white guilt narrative is a huge part of that. The idea that the west is a patriarchy is one, too.
    We don't have that feeling because we don't watch Fox News lmao. They're a partisan hack network bent on convincing their viewers that the "other side" hates them and wants to destroy their way of life. They're constantly caught twisting what people say and do, editing pictures and outright lying. MSNBC and CNN are the same except more PC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  34. #34
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    We don't have that feeling because we don't watch Fox News lmao. They're a partisan hack network bent on convincing their viewers that the "other side" hates them and wants to destroy their way of life. They're constantly caught twisting what people say and do, editing pictures and outright lying. MSNBC and CNN are the same except more PC.
    Maybe, but itís not just Fox News here a lol. Iíd have to assume that MANY people are lying about whatís happening and I canít imagine that being the case. It would be extremely complicated; thereís multiple people who feel the same way as I do, and the majority arenít public figures, or, at least, theyíre heavily discredited.

  35. #35

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    I’d have to assume that MANY people are lying about what’s happening and I can’t imagine that being the case. It would be extremely complicated;
    It's not. The individual disseminators of information overlook the misinformation or logic jumps they're spreading because they still believe their ideology is correct as a whole and assume others in their ideology are telling the truth. The vast majority of consumers of the disinformation do not need to be involved in any misinformation, they're just passing on what they heard. This is how massive groups of people espousing comically wrong statements come to fruition.

    Has Fox News ever shown you actual polling data of how many people think "The West is evil" or "The West is White Supremacist"? Of course not.
    Last edited by yzb25; June 22nd, 2020 at 04:19 AM. Reason: typo
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  36. #36
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    It's not. The individual disseminators of information overlook the misinformation or logic jumps they're spreading because they still believe their ideology is correct as a whole and assume others in their ideology are telling the truth. The vast majority of consumers of the disinformation do not need to be involved in any misinformation, they're just passing on what they heard. This is how massive groups of being espousing comically wrong statements come to fruition.

    Has Fox News ever shown you actual polling data of how many people think "The West is evil" or "The West is White Supremacist"? Of course not.
    The overwhelming majority of people, I suspect, feel as I do. Thereís a reason Fox News and conservative out lets tend to have high likes on YT, for instance, compared to CNN, say.

    And itís not like this data is based solely off of FoxNews either: look at what GitHub is doing. Look at what Harvard is doing, look at what Cambridge is doing; look at what the various companies in the game industry are doing right now. Look at the comments political leaders in America (many of them Republican, many of them Democrat) are making on the George Floyd protests/riots. Look at how people are getting banned for not being left. Look at how Twitter is trying to censor Trump. Look at how coronavirus videos criticizing the lockdown are being taken down from YouTube. Look at how Trumpís rallies are attacked as Ďimmoralí because they endanger public safety, when the riots were actually given the geeen light by health experts because apparently racial inequality is a huge health risk.

    Look at how in Canada a prominent professor went to a University to talk about free speech and was attacked by a mob of mindless students who proceeded to call him a Ďtransphobic piece of shití.

    Its really not just Fox News lol.

  37. #37

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    I don't want a communist state, I just don't want the rich having such a disproportionate amount of wealth compared to the majority. That is wealth in all forms - money, power, influence, opportunities. The game is glaringly rigged against the majority and attention is always being focused elsewhere, usually towards the ideological conflicts. Both "sides" are guilty of this.

  38. #38
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    I don't want a communist state, I just don't want the rich having such a disproportionate amount of wealth compared to the majority. That is wealth in all forms - money, power, influence, opportunities. The game is glaringly rigged against the majority and attention is always being focused elsewhere, usually towards the ideological conflicts. Both "sides" are guilty of this.
    Thatís indeed an issue: relative inequality is actually related to crime. This is I believe mostly an issue in the US, although Iím not certain why. If you look at other high income countries like the Scandinavian countries, they donít really have this issue of inequality, although itís developing into a problem as well due to the number of immigrants from less well off countries they are taking in.

    i actually think that regulating immigration for a while until things stabilize again is a good idea, although Iím not sure what else might be done about it. I suppose that having things like free healthcare (up to a point), would help. The real issue is that America is a highly competitive place, and even though thereís plenty of work to be had for the less well off, with high pay, too, itís not that simple. The relative differences matter a lot.

  39. #39

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    I don't want a communist state, I just don't want the rich having such a disproportionate amount of wealth compared to the majority. That is wealth in all forms - money, power, influence, opportunities. The game is glaringly rigged against the majority and attention is always being focused elsewhere, usually towards the ideological conflicts. Both "sides" are guilty of this.
    This is smart.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  40. #40

  41. #41
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Canada has provinces with low income and low inequality, and the crime rate is very low there.

  42. #42

  43. #43
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    That's unfair. We all know what Canadians are like.
    Okay, true that.
    More seriously I feel that inequality is really what drives the crime rate up

  44. #44

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Regulating immigration where? In Australia it is very bloody vital that we have immigration lol. Because of coronavirus, the loss of international students is set to blow a $30b-$60b hole in the economy and that's just foreign students. We have millions of empty homes that immigrants can get the cash flow rolling on.

  45. #45
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    My real issue to give you an example of what Iím talking about is the idea that white people should feel responsible for slavery - in and of itself, an okay idea but then you get into the issue of blaming ALL white people for something that happened ages back and that most had nothing to do with. I think this is a form of class war disguised as race war, because the Ďoppressedíin this new narrative are ethnic minorities with low average income. You almost never see the media talking about Asians for instance, nor about Jews, even though a) they were LITERALLY massacred not even a century ago and b) itís mostly whites who did that, and Antisemitism was extremely popular in the west until the Second World War.

  46. #46

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    My real issue to give you an example of what Iím talking about is the idea that white people should feel responsible for slavery - in and of itself, an okay idea but then you get into the issue of blaming ALL white people for something that happened ages back and that most had nothing to do with. I think this is a form of class war disguised as race war, because the Ďoppressedíin this new narrative are ethnic minorities with low average income. You almost never see the media talking about Asians for instance, nor about Jews, even though a) they were LITERALLY massacred not even a century ago and b) itís mostly whites who did that, and Antisemitism was extremely popular in the west until the Second World War.
    bro how many left wing people "blame white people for slavery". How many left wing people have you spoken to on here or in real life who actually think that? How many white people do you think would tick yes if polled on the question "do you blame yourself for the atlantic slave trade?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  47. #47
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    bro how many left wing people "blame white people for slavery". How many left wing people have you spoken to on here or in real life who actually think that? How many white people do you think would tick yes if polled on the question "do you blame yourself for the atlantic slave trade?"
    I donít know, but that is what is being pushed right now lol.
    Look at Wolfenstein the New Colossus. It is one of the most woke games Iíve ever seen in my life. America is literally run by the KKK in that game and the only rebels you meet are the Black Panthers and the communists, and they literally say white American joined in with the nazis... and just look how white Americans in that game are okay with things as they are and theyíre very sympathetic to the Nazi regime, with many preparing to learn German.

    One of the characters literally says, Ďcome and get me you white ass fascist Nazi pigsí.
    Iíll actually ask you to try an experiment: say that youíre a Bernie supporter in some WhatsApp group chat, and then try to say that youíre actually a Trump supporter. And compare the reactions.
    Ibe actually done the latter and IRL I always claim to be neutral when it comes to politics because many people donít like my views - which is fine but they take it to the extreme lol. Trust me, donít say youíre a trump supporter if you donít want some negative reactions from people.

  48. #48
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Iíve actually had a number of people talk about white privilege, someone in a WhatsApp chat (a friend of mine) got kicked over something related to that. Many people defended him but a lot just wanted to kick for no reason.

  49. #49

  50. #50
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Why would they need to satisfy the mob of the day if the mob of the day werenít in favour of their views?
    And I donít think they are. I think the silent majority doesnít care about the BS thatís being pushed rn.

 

 

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