Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism - Page 4
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  1. #151

  2. #152

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Iím surprised you agreed with Frinckles. What he said seemed to be akin to an ďI donít see raceĒ type of argument.

    ďWhy do we get caught up in the pastĒ. Because black people were slaves so they naturally had no money or eduction, hence why their descendants are less likely to have money or education.


    The past is 100% crucial here, considering the average bigot will use the same statistics I just mentioned to say that black people are stupid and violent.
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  3. #153

  4. #154

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    ďItís an economic issueĒ. Like no. The average black is poorer than the average white, yes. But people inherently fear blacks more than they fear whites. You canít seriously pretend the whole issue is economic.

    The divide was created on purpose after this:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_...lave_rebellion

    Because if you convince poor white people that theyíre superior to poor black people, then they canít team up anymore.
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  5. #155

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    I’m surprised you agreed with Frinckles. What he said seemed to be akin to an “I don’t see race” type of argument.

    “Why do we get caught up in the past”. Because black people were slaves so they naturally had no money or eduction, hence why their descendants are less likely to have money or education.


    The past is 100% crucial here, considering the average bigot will use the same statistics I just mentioned to say that black people are stupid and violent.
    Wait are you talking to me? I certainly didn't agree with Pringles. I'm playin warzone and he was tryna bait a response outta me so I gave him one lol
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  6. #156

  7. #157

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    I’m surprised you agreed with Frinckles. What he said seemed to be akin to an “I don’t see race” type of argument.

    “Why do we get caught up in the past”. Because black people were slaves so they naturally had no money or eduction, hence why their descendants are less likely to have money or education.


    The past is 100% crucial here, considering the average bigot will use the same statistics I just mentioned to say that black people are stupid and violent.
    lol I do love the not so subtle callout tho of a certain someone at the end XD
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  8. #158

  9. #159

  10. #160

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by naz View Post
    The flag is also known as the Stainless Banner, and the matter of the person behind its design remains a point of contention. On April 23, 1863, the Savannah Morning News editor William Tappan Thompson, with assistance from William Ross Postell, a Confederate blockade runner, published an editorial championing a design featuring the battle flag on a white background he referred to later as "The White Man's Flag."[6] In explaining the white background, Thompson wrote, "As a people we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause."[1][2][3][4][7][8][9][10]

    literally from wikipedia

    it's ALL about racism

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_...tes_of_America

    the previous versions had white for white supremacy sdjflsdfsdf then they changed it cuz it looked like a surrender flag
    The civil war wasnít only about slavery.
    Id argue the civil war was a result of the economic differences between the North and the South. The Soutn was mostly agricultural, while the North was more industrialized.

    Iíd argue that even the Jim Crow laws passed in the South after the war were motivated primarily by resentment and were the Southís way of Ďgetting backí at the freedmen. Kinda comparable to how Hitler and the nazis became hugely popular due to German revanchism and the Great Depression.

    i just donít think an entire people would be so anal about slavery when it was widely seen as immoral if it hadnít been for the economic aspect. Remember that only 25% of Southern (white) families owned slaves. It wasnít even a majority of the population. It was mostly the elites who were against, along with bigoted whites.

    Hence why I donít think itís fair to paint the Confederacy as a primarily racist society. The confederate flag is viewed as a symbol of pride for southerners in much the same way national flags are around the world. Yes, it has been used by white nationalists as well, but they arenít the only ones who used it, and Iíd argue that most people who donít want the confederate flag removed arenít nazis.

    If you look at the KKK, they have around 5,000 members today. In the Ď20ís they had a whooping 6 MILLION. Btw incidentally 20% of the white male (enfranchised?) population of Indiana were members of the KKK. Wtf happened to Indiana, they werenít even in the South lol.
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  11. #161

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    anyway I agree with Frinckles about the past. We should worry about the present.
    Honestly as someone who isnít in the States Iím actually quite curious how prevalent racism is there, as my suspicion is that it isnít, but as I obviously donít live there I canít aay for sure.
    If itís anything like the Netherlands then itís probably not particularly racist.
    I am not 100% certain about this but I suspect racism is still quite the issue in Germany. Iíve had many bad experiences in Germany with Germans; Iíve only had this twice here in two years lol. Itís really a wonderful country, probably the best in Europe.

    Anyway, I do think race is a bit too politicized nowadays and racist is now more or less a buzzword than the media likes to use to paint people they donít like. Not to say that racists donít exist, but itís overused.

    Funny how the media never talks about the Klan or about Richard Spencer.
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  12. #162

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    Iím surprised you agreed with Frinckles. What he said seemed to be akin to an ďI donít see raceĒ type of argument.

    ďWhy do we get caught up in the pastĒ. Because black people were slaves so they naturally had no money or eduction, hence why their descendants are less likely to have money or education.


    The past is 100% crucial here, considering the average bigot will use the same statistics I just mentioned to say that black people are stupid and violent.
    So were Asians, Latinos and immigrants.
    Many people who first emigrated to the colonies were indentured servants; they were not free.

    How do you propose we correct that historic injustice, by the way?
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  13. #163

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    And to elaborate, who am I as a human (or minority) to criticize you on your white priveledge? Why would I make the topic 'white vs everyone else?' That assumes I know every part of how extraordinary lucky (but omitting unlucky) you were and that I cannot attain it. Or rather that these are unattainable by minorities. It's flawed and its a demoralizing beacon. But now, we burn our history and our culture for what? To send a message that won't be recieved? How does this fix the issues of our communities? How does threatening the fabric of our safety of our children, family and friends fix these problems?
    I actually agree with this so much lol. Itís probably the most sensible thing uttered in this thread.
    Playing racial politics is a bad idea, no matter whoís playing it - people on the left or in the right.
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  14. #164

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Anyway Iím also part of a minority, one that btw isnít well seen. Iíll stand by Frinckles and say, who am I to hate people for their Ďprivilegeí? Iím poor, lazy and quite resentful, doesnít mean I want to stay that way lol. I really donít think this way of thinking helps minorities.
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  15. #165

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    This reminds me of the Gender pronoun Canadian law. Man, Iíve thought about it and if I were transgender, I would so hate it.
    Second, the thought of having been accepted to university just because of my group affiliation literally makes me shiver. I really hope weíre not pursuing that kind of policy here in the Netherlands.
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  16. #166

  17. #167

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    This reminds me of the Gender pronoun Canadian law. Man, Iíve thought about it and if I were transgender, I would so hate it.
    Second, the thought of having been accepted to university just because of my group affiliation literally makes me shiver. I really hope weíre not pursuing that kind of policy here in the Netherlands.
    Bro it's time to stop repeating this because it's factually incorrect and makes you look really fucking gullible.

  18. #168

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    My last shtick about myself wasnít about race, it was about ethnicity, but I think theyíre very strongly related to transgender issues as well.
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  19. #169

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    My last shtick about myself wasnít about race, it was about ethnicity, but I think theyíre very strongly related to transgender issues as well.
    I meant race as in Formula 1. This is a pure example of how my argument is right and how you're always just twisting my words.
    Cryptonic made this sig

  20. #170

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    I think its a bit disingenuous to say the civil war wasn't only about slavery. Sure some other elements were at play but they are all either directly or indirectly linked to slavery. Who do you think worked the agriculture sectors? Why do you think the south were upset over the northerners (abolitionists) making claims to new territory gains? Why do you think the final nail was the election of Abraham Lincoln?

    It's all linked to slavery. The fruits of the labor from slaves, the tradition of owning slaves, the battle to determine the survival of slavery itself.

  21. #171

  22. #172

  23. #173

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    If there is a box of 100 apples.
    99 of these apples are poisonous. And will kill you if eaten.
    1of these apples are not poisonous. And is safe too eat.

    Would you call it a box of poisonous apples?
    Would you eat from the Boxes?


    Now. Please compare it to politics.
    Cryptonic made this sig

  24. #174

  25. #175

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    I think its a bit disingenuous to say the civil war wasn't only about slavery. Sure some other elements were at play but they are all either directly or indirectly linked to slavery. Who do you think worked the agriculture sectors? Why do you think the south were upset over the northerners (abolitionists) making claims to new territory gains? Why do you think the final nail was the election of Abraham Lincoln?

    It's all linked to slavery. The fruits of the labor from slaves, the tradition of owning slaves, the battle to determine the survival of slavery itself.
    I see slavery as an economic issue, as well as a social issue. I very much doubt abolitionism wouldíve been so staunchly opposed by the south if their economy werenít centered around it. Donít forget that slavery used to be legal in the Union, too; I think the issue is that there were many cash crops in the south and that served to discourage industrialization.

    Slavery, as a social issue, was also part of it, though remember that Abe Lincoln was against giving blacks the right to vote. He saw them as inferior, and supported the colonization of Liberia by free blacks (off topic but one of the dumbest ideas ever put forward; why send American citizens to fucking africa lol). I donít want to overstate the moral aspect of it, because I think the North was also pretty immoral, or at least certain elements in the North.
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  26. #176

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    If there is a box of 100 apples.
    99 of these apples are poisonous. And will kill you if eaten.
    1of these apples are not poisonous. And is safe too eat.

    Would you call it a box of poisonous apples?
    Would you eat from the Boxes?


    Now. Please compare it to politics.
    I am not sure where this is going but Iíd call it a box of poisonous apples, yes.
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  27. #177

  28. #178

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    I think thereís a real danger that my last post may be misinterpreted, i DO NOT think that slavery for economic issues is OKAY in the SLIGHTEST. Itís just that, I think the view that slavery was borne solely out of white supremacy isnít completely true. It absolutely contributed, but itís not the full story.
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  29. #179

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    I think its a bit disingenuous to say the civil war wasn't only about slavery. Sure some other elements were at play but they are all either directly or indirectly linked to slavery. Who do you think worked the agriculture sectors? Why do you think the south were upset over the northerners (abolitionists) making claims to new territory gains? Why do you think the final nail was the election of Abraham Lincoln?

    It's all linked to slavery. The fruits of the labor from slaves, the tradition of owning slaves, the battle to determine the survival of slavery itself.
    The South was afraid of abolitionism, but my point is slavery isnít merely a social issue, it is also an economic one. Much like serfdom.
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  30. #180

  31. #181

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    I think its a bit disingenuous to say the civil war wasn't only about slavery. Sure some other elements were at play but they are all either directly or indirectly linked to slavery. Who do you think worked the agriculture sectors? Why do you think the south were upset over the northerners (abolitionists) making claims to new territory gains? Why do you think the final nail was the election of Abraham Lincoln?

    It's all linked to slavery. The fruits of the labor from slaves, the tradition of owning slaves, the battle to determine the survival of slavery itself.
    https://www.battlefields.org/learn/p...eceding-states

    Here's rather clear and direct evidence for anyone who would be contradicting Rumox there lmao

    ~~

    Source for Ganelon about Canadian gender law thingy: https://sds.utoronto.ca/blog/bill-c-1...ronoun-misuse/

    ~~

    I love politics, but please keep it nice, everyone. Rules still apply ;)
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  32. #182

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    You realize not every southerner felt the same way right? And Abraham Lincoln also said that he believed in the superiority of the white race.
    Cant we at least agree that the Confederate flag ISNT strictly racist? Not everyone who waves or likes it is a racist... it is a symbol of southern pride lol. Not just slavery

    Just because lots of white nationalists use it DOESNT mean everyone who does or even the majority or a significant plurality are white nationalists. 44% of white southerners are against doing away with the flag. Iím pretty sure 44% of the entire south isnít racist lol.
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  33. #183

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    The civil war wasnít only about slavery.
    Id argue the civil war was a result of the economic differences between the North and the South. The Soutn was mostly agricultural, while the North was more industrialized.

    Iíd argue that even the Jim Crow laws passed in the South after the war were motivated primarily by resentment and were the Southís way of Ďgetting backí at the freedmen. Kinda comparable to how Hitler and the nazis became hugely popular due to German revanchism and the Great Depression.

    i just donít think an entire people would be so anal about slavery when it was widely seen as immoral if it hadnít been for the economic aspect. Remember that only 25% of Southern (white) families owned slaves. It wasnít even a majority of the population. It was mostly the elites who were against, along with bigoted whites.

    Hence why I donít think itís fair to paint the Confederacy as a primarily racist society. The confederate flag is viewed as a symbol of pride for southerners in much the same way national flags are around the world. Yes, it has been used by white nationalists as well, but they arenít the only ones who used it, and Iíd argue that most people who donít want the confederate flag removed arenít nazis.

    If you look at the KKK, they have around 5,000 members today. In the Ď20ís they had a whooping 6 MILLION. Btw incidentally 20% of the white male (enfranchised?) population of Indiana were members of the KKK. Wtf happened to Indiana, they werenít even in the South lol.
    Mag. Where do you get your numbers from lmao
    & what is this second paragraph lool ofc the Jim Crow laws were passed to keep black people from equality, look at the 13th amendment and prisons its modern day slavery dhsjdns it never ended just took on a new name
    in this information day and age I doubt people want their names on a KKK register but I'm curious to know where u got 5000 members from lol
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  34. #184

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Anyways the reason Iím pushing so hard aginst this isnít because I feel strongly about the civil war per se but rather about the idea that the confederate flag is fundamentally racist. 75% of Trumpís supporters believe the flag is fine and shouldnít be removed; I donít think you can make the case that theyíre all racist bigots, it just doesnít add up...

    Its a symbol of southern pride, NOT of slavery. Literally ask people in the south and I bet theyíll tell you theyíre against slavery and racism, because theyíre decent people.

    You guys donít know what true racism is, Iíve had people tell me VERY NASTY things about various minorities in my home country - chiefly abut Jews (and to a lesser extent blacks, altho most people have never seen blacks there except on TV so itís not an issue).

    Can we please STOP with calling everything racist.
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  35. #185

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by naz View Post
    Mag. Where do you get your numbers from lmao
    & what is this second paragraph lool ofc the Jim Crow laws were passed to keep black people from equality, look at the 13th amendment and prisons its modern day slavery dhsjdns it never ended just took on a new name
    in this information day and age I doubt people want their names on a KKK register but I'm curious to know where u got 5000 members from lol
    Iím suggesting that Jim Crow laws were a way of getting back at the North.
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  36. #186

  37. #187

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    You realize not every southerner felt the same way right? And Abraham Lincoln also said that he believed in the superiority of the white race.
    Cant we at least agree that the Confederate flag ISNT strictly racist? Not everyone who waves or likes it is a racist... it is a symbol of southern pride lol. Not just slavery

    Just because lots of white nationalists use it DOESNT mean everyone who does or even the majority or a significant plurality are white nationalists. 44% of white southerners are against doing away with the flag. I’m pretty sure 44% of the entire south isn’t racist lol.
    Whether the average person felt the same or not is irrelevant to the point. The core principal of the secession was slavery, there is literally no other way to paint it. The link MM gave shows that each state put incredibly high emphasis on the reason for their secession being for the protection of slavery. My issue wasn't that idiots are using the confederate flag as a national identifier, I don't care about that. My issue was how you were framing the reason of the south's secession. It sounded like you were trying to downplay the deeply rooted and incredibly blatant racist aspect of the secession by saying it "wasn't all about slavery" when it irrefutably was.

    Also saying Abraham Lincoln was racist has no weight. It was mid 1800's. Every man and his dog was probably racist.
    Last edited by rumox; June 23rd, 2020 at 05:59 AM.

  38. #188

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Anyways the reason I’m pushing so hard aginst this isn’t because I feel strongly about the civil war per se but rather about the idea that the confederate flag is fundamentally racist. 75% of Trump’s supporters believe the flag is fine and shouldn’t be removed; I don’t think you can make the case that they’re all racist bigots, it just doesn’t add up...

    Its a symbol of southern pride, NOT of slavery. Literally ask people in the south and I bet they’ll tell you they’re against slavery and racism, because they’re decent people.

    You guys don’t know what true racism is, I’ve had people tell me VERY NASTY things about various minorities in my home country - chiefly abut Jews (and to a lesser extent blacks, altho most people have never seen blacks there except on TV so it’s not an issue).

    Can we please STOP with calling everything racist.
    You cannot say this to anyone. You don't know what any of us have experienced. Especially as someone so detached.

    I live in Utah, that is a midwestern state (you wouldn't think racism would be rampant here) yet is filled to the brim with mormons. Mormons, that until 1978 (only 42 years ago!) did not allow black men to receive the priesthood or black families enter the temple. This was a huge. Fucking. Deal. I grew up being taught things like "blacks were less worthy in the pre-existence (life before birth) and therefore were born into black families and for that reason couldn't receive those blessings", or "black skin is the curse of cain", hearing that stuff echo'd over the pulpit and in sunday school as recently as 2007ish. Only in the last few years has the church taken a different stance of "anything racist taught over the pulpit was not actually coming from god, so stop doing it". So many mormons that I know to this day are racist. My dad talks all the time about how in his day "they were always just niggers to us". In the MTC in 2009 (missionary training center) the white missionaries I roomed with (bunch of 19 year olds) would consistently put down a black sister missionary behind her back, laughing about things like how she looked like a monkey as she ate a banana at lunch. One of the leaders of the church (a member of the quorum of the 12 apostles) visited the MTC and told a story about some "big, black men" (putting emphasis on the adjective "black" as something scary) harassed some missionaries when some members stood up for them. Don't know what true racism is? You can't claim that at all.

    So yeah. I know a lot of racists.
    Last edited by BananaCucho; June 23rd, 2020 at 06:32 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  39. #189

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Anyways the reason Iím pushing so hard aginst this isnít because I feel strongly about the civil war per se but rather about the idea that the confederate flag is fundamentally racist. 75% of Trumpís supporters believe the flag is fine and shouldnít be removed; I donít think you can make the case that theyíre all racist bigots, it just doesnít add up...

    Its a symbol of southern pride, NOT of slavery. Literally ask people in the south and I bet theyíll tell you theyíre against slavery and racism, because theyíre decent people.

    You guys donít know what true racism is, Iíve had people tell me VERY NASTY things about various minorities in my home country - chiefly abut Jews (and to a lesser extent blacks, altho most people have never seen blacks there except on TV so itís not an issue).

    Can we please STOP with calling everything racist.
    Oh my god I just wrote out a long response and pushed submit and I was logged out and it got ERASED
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH H
    Mag, I live in Texas, & you have never even stepped a foot in America, and I cba to type all that fucking shit again omg I'm so annoyed lol
    anyway, sure there is probably a small minority of people who use the glag as southern pride, just like there is a small minority of 'gOoD cOpS' but what about thse people Mag
    https://twitter.com/sitneaturfood/st...076105219?s=19
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    President Fielzanks walks up to his stage, preparing his n1 speech. In front of him, his two cronies MM and David stood. In front of him, his immaculately written n1 speech was prepared. 'Gentleman, what is the soul of capitalism?', he asked his small audience. 'Money?', MM guessed. 'Waifus?', David asked. 'No' Fielz replied, disappointed in his trash scumteam .
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  40. #190

  41. #191

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    My favorite part in all this is when a presumably non person of color comes up with all of these "confed flag isn't racist, I doubt there is racism in america, blah blah" instead of asking and listening to the LIVED EXPERIENCES of actual people of color in the USA.

    And even when they are exposed to it (BLM, etc), they soundly reject it.

  42. #192

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    My favorite part in all this is when a presumably non person of color comes up with all of these "confed flag isn't racist, I doubt there is racism in america, blah blah" instead of asking and listening to the LIVED EXPERIENCES of actual people of color in the USA.

    And even when they are exposed to it (BLM, etc), they soundly reject it.
    This is why I voted you

    ...for President
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  43. #193

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Just because lots of white nationalists use it DOESNT mean everyone who does or even the majority or a significant plurality are white nationalists. 44% of white southerners are against doing away with the flag. I’m pretty sure 44% of the entire south isn’t racist lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    75% of Trump’s supporters believe the flag is fine and shouldn’t be removed; I don’t think you can make the case that they’re all racist bigots, it just doesn’t add up...
    Let's look at some actual numbers. I really like the midterm results of the Illinois 3rd congressional district.

    https://ballotpedia.org/Illinois%27_...ional_District

    In 2014, a Republican ran for the house in this district and got 35.4% of the vote. In 2016 the district was uncontested. Then, in the 2018 midterms, the Republican nominee was a genuine neo-Nazi. As in, his campaign site talked about how the holocaust was fake. The guy was literally a part of the American Nazi party.

    In 2018, he got 25.9% of the vote. He got more absolute votes than the Republican candidate in 2014. That was despite the Republican party actively disavowing him and telling people not to vote for him.

    If we assume that the proportion of Dems to Republicans in that district has remained the same, that means that percentage-wise, about 73% of the Republican constituency in that district voted for an actual neo-Nazi. Now you may argue that they might have had reasons such as economic, religious, etc. to vote for him. But surely him being someone who holds rallies commemorating Hitler, supporting reinstating segregation and interracial marriage bans, and saying that Trump is bad because he's a "Jew-loving fool" would give Republican voters pause, right?

    Maybe your 44% and 75% numbers aren't too absurd after all?
    Last edited by oops_ur_dead; June 23rd, 2020 at 06:56 AM.

  44. #194

  45. #195

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    You cannot say this to anyone. You don't know what any of us have experienced. Especially as someone so detached.

    I live in Utah, that is a midwestern state (you wouldn't think racism would be rampant here) yet is filled to the brim with mormons. Mormons, that until 1978 (only 42 years ago!) did not allow black men to receive the priesthood or black families enter the temple. This was a huge. Fucking. Deal. I grew up being taught things like "blacks were less worthy in the pre-existence (life before birth) and therefore were born into black families and for that reason couldn't receive those blessings", or "black skin is the curse of cain", hearing that stuff echo'd over the pulpit and in sunday school as recently as 2007ish. Only in the last few years has the church taken a different stance of "anything racist taught over the pulpit was not actually coming from god, so stop doing it". So many mormons that I know to this day are racist. My dad talks all the time about how in his day "they were always just niggers to us". In the MTC in 2009 (missionary training center) the white missionaries I roomed with (bunch of 19 year olds) would consistently put down a black sister missionary behind her back, laughing about things like how she looked like a monkey as she ate a banana at lunch. One of the leaders of the church (a member of the quorum of the 12 apostles) visited the MTC and told a story about some "big, black men" (putting emphasis on the adjective "black" as something scary) harassed some missionaries when some members stood up for them. Don't know what true racism is? You can't claim that at all.

    So yeah. I know a lot of racists.
    Iím sorry you have lol, I donít mean to downplay that in any way, I just donít think racism is as big of a problem as itís usually made out to be. I hope Iím not being insensitive here and Iíll just say what happened to you was wrong, and honestly horrific a major religious organization has essentially been racist for so long and until very recently didnít allow blacks into their temples. I actually did not know that and itís sad. The more I hear about Mormons the less and less I like that faith, so I can understand why you left.

    Its just, Ive not seen the things youíve talked about even in more racist countries, or in the Netherlands, which as a whole is almost certainly less tolerant than the US. This is something I havenít said before but a close family member of mine said something to me before I left that was racist and HILARIOUSLY stupid (about non whites, I believe he was referring to blacks/Muslims specifically), whichís is absurd because heíd literally never seen one in his life. I find people like that ridiculous.

    Clearly what yoyee saying shows that racism still exists, but maybe we can agree on that and move elsewhere. How many people do you think are racist? Secondly, given that the Mormon church is so influential in Utah, do you think that might account in part for your experience? Iím just saying, maybe itís just Mormons.

    It was dumb of me to say you didnít know true racism, I take that back. Itís just, people have said incalculably stupid things to me about race where Iím from, ridiculous racist things that you probably wouldnít hear in the West, and especially bigoted remarks. If youíre Protestant where Iím from youíre literally seen as the devil.
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    lmao he is the baby in your picture

  46. #196

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Yes there's just one particular person here who stands out with these very same viewpoints lol
    I donít appreciate this slander and if you have something to say just say it lol. I realize what I say can be pretty offensive, but Iím not racist, I really am not lol. Two of my four-five best friends are not white. I seriously donít look at skin colour; the only thing that matters to me is if the other person is cool, and my friends are all cool.

    But, I realize I may have probably dug a grave for myself that I didnít intend to, as Iíve said previously the temptation is just to deny everything your opposition says. I am willing to admit racism exists, but I believe the following things:

    a) The US, as a whole, is not a racist country. This is evident as the US has arguably done more for racial harmony than most other countries.

    b) The white privilege thing isnít the way to solve current racial issues. I donít want to be labeled as racist but I mean, look at South Africa. Itís one of the most racist countries in the world. I have friends who lived in RSA and they all informed me blacks and whites generally donít help each other there; I fear the US is headed down that pathway right now, and that doesnít help anyone, least of all minorities.
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    lmao he is the baby in your picture

  47. #197

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    Let's look at some actual numbers. I really like the midterm results of the Illinois 3rd congressional district.

    https://ballotpedia.org/Illinois%27_...ional_District

    In 2014, a Republican ran for the house in this district and got 35.4% of the vote. In 2016 the district was uncontested. Then, in the 2018 midterms, the Republican nominee was a genuine neo-Nazi. As in, his campaign site talked about how the holocaust was fake. The guy was literally a part of the American Nazi party.

    In 2018, he got 25.9% of the vote. He got more absolute votes than the Republican candidate in 2014. That was despite the Republican party actively disavowing him and telling people not to vote for him.

    If we assume that the proportion of Dems to Republicans in that district has remained the same, that means that percentage-wise, about 73% of the Republican constituency in that district voted for an actual neo-Nazi. Now you may argue that they might have had reasons such as economic, religious, etc. to vote for him. But surely him being someone who holds rallies commemorating Hitler, supporting reinstating segregation and interracial marriage bans, and saying that Trump is bad because he's a "Jew-loving fool" would give Republican voters pause, right?

    Maybe your 44% and 75% numbers aren't too absurd after all?
    As someone who has a very huge problem with antisemitism, among other things, I would definitely not have voted for him. Was he the only republican candidate? How do they decide who gets to run?
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    lmao he is the baby in your picture

  48. #198

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    I don’t appreciate this slander and if you have something to say just say it lol. I realize what I say can be pretty offensive, but I’m not racist, I really am not lol. Two of my four-five best friends are not white. I seriously don’t look at skin colour; the only thing that matters to me is if the other person is cool, and my friends are all cool.
    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...estFriendsAreX

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/s...e-friends.html

  49. #199

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    Iím surprised you agreed with Frinckles. What he said seemed to be akin to an ďI donít see raceĒ type of argument.

    ďWhy do we get caught up in the pastĒ. Because black people were slaves so they naturally had no money or eduction, hence why their descendants are less likely to have money or education.


    The past is 100% crucial here, considering the average bigot will use the same statistics I just mentioned to say that black people are stupid and violent.
    I didnít explain away the problem with "I don't see race." I made it a point that a lot of concepts brought up in the discussion commonly are at thier core, demoralizing, flawed and polarizing. Talking points that do not remedy the issue from doctors who do not want the patient to get well.

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    ďItís an economic issueĒ. Like no. The average black is poorer than the average white, yes. But people inherently fear blacks more than they fear whites. You canít seriously pretend the whole issue is economic.

    The divide was created on purpose after this:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_...lave_rebellion

    Because if you convince poor white people that theyíre superior to poor black people, then they canít team up anymore.
    You literally just pointed out in your post before this that it was an economic issue or socioeconomic. Thatís established. A 2009 poll showed Blacks make more on average than Hispanics, they make less than Whites who make less than Asians. In fact, this was a trend that Booker T. Washington recognized early on. He argued that sacrificing voting rights and submitting to racism in the short term, for education and Healthcare for Southern Blacks - would position the black community to be be able to finally push for a more comprehensive civil rights act. And they did. What is disingenuous is this trend of portraying civil rights as Black men in chains and then pivoting right up to MLK. If you want to make it about the past, there is far too much in between that's left forgotten. My argument is that overcoming these issues starts at the foundation of Black communities and the rhetoric that mainstream and social media uses to incorrectly portray the topic of race. Antiquated 'white vs X' does not work. It cannot work and it will not work. There is a difference between learning from our past and having an unhealthy obsession with it. It holds you back.

    Give sauce on the fear statistic though please. <3
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  50. #200

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    As someone who has a very huge problem with antisemitism, among other things, I would definitely not have voted for him. Was he the only republican candidate? How do they decide who gets to run?
    He was uncontested in the Republican primaries for that district, and in their defence, lost the nomination quite badly the next year (though he still got 10% of the vote in that nomination, which is worrying if you take that as 10% of Republicans being literal Nazis when given a choice).

    I'm not saying that the voters for him are all Nazis of course. Just that roughly 73% of Republicans in that district were at the very least okay with voting in an actual Nazi. Which I don't think is very flattering at all, and I think you'd probably agree with me that voting for a Nazi pretty unambiguously makes you at least a little bit racist.

 

 

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