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  1. #551
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Well, I think that is the right attitude to have. I donít believe and I donít pray... I havenít been to church in over a decade. If someone tried to pray for me , depending on how they phrased and the context I would probably feel a bit cringe but also somewhat touched that they did that. It depends. Far too many people use God as an excuse for failure/to appear empathetic.

  2. #552
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Right, as much as he claims to not be religious, his viewpoints are definitely heavily influenced by it.
    They are, yes. I probably shouldíve been clear about that.

  3. #553

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Engaging with you literally like chasing a chicken man. I say "the motto is bad because the religious use it to justify restricting freedoms of people different from them", you respond with "yeah religion is flawed" and ignore the point. I say "look what is being done in my state by the very religious, using those exact justifications", you respond with "mormonism isn't even christianity", even though you claim you aren't defending christianity, or any one religion, and aren't very religious even. lol
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  4. #554
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Stop ignoring my points by addressing something else. The motto is horrible because people use it to justify forcing their beliefs on others. Good and bad.
    I think youíre using a skewed dataset though. I have friends who believe in a higher power like I do and are also not religious, and they definitely wouldnít support outlawing gay marriage. It could be that these people are interpreting the slogan as support for the idea that the US is a Christian nation. I think theyíre wrong.

  5. #555
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Engaging with you literally like chasing a chicken man. I say "the motto is bad because the religious use it to justify restricting freedoms of people different from them", you respond with "yeah religion is flawed" and ignore the point. I say "look what is being done in my state by the very religious, using those exact justifications", you respond with "mormonism isn't even christianity", even though you claim you aren't defending christianity, or any one religion, and aren't very religious even. lol
    I am mostly defending Christianity because I think the Christian moral value system is good. Were it any other religion, apart from a few that I donít agree with it, I would also be defending them.

  6. #556
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Part of the reason Iím defending Christianity is because thatís the one that is being attacked.

  7. #557
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Anyway, I went out with a guy here in the Netherlands who believed that Theocracy was the best form of government. I felt somewhat strange talking to him but he was very respectful. I find it bizarre that such people still exist, but hey. They do apparently.

  8. #558
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Anyway I grew up in a country that purported to be secular but uh... my dad baptized me because itís very difficult where Iím from to do anything if youíre not baptized. You canít even get buried.

  9. #559
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    I’m not resentful or anything over that, but I’m just saying. I grew up in a very religious country and even there, nobody really gave a shit what your religion was. We even have a Protestant President now. Nobody actually gives a shit.

  10. #560

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    I think you’re using a skewed dataset though. I have friends who believe in a higher power like I do and are also not religious, and they definitely wouldn’t support outlawing gay marriage. It could be that these people are interpreting the slogan as support for the idea that the US is a Christian nation. I think they’re wrong.
    Yes, my state is one of the most religious in the country. No, that does not mean that this hasn't been a problem, especially a very recent problem. In June of 2013, just 7 years ago, only 12/50 states allowed gay marriage. This is after years, and years, and years of work and fighting for the right to marry. And the religious don't want to let it go. They want the Supreme Court to overturn its decision from 5 years ago, and even now, just this month LGBTQ individuals are still fighting for their rights. Religious oppression (as in oppressing the nonreligious / people that believe differently) is still a very real problem here.
    Last edited by BananaCucho; June 29th, 2020 at 02:31 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  11. #561

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Would you say we should all get divorces then?
    I know what youíll say, that I demonized the victim. Iím not. I think itís deplorable these things happen. That doesnít make divorce GOOD. It makes it the lesser of two evils.
    Divorce is neither moral or immoral.... it's the actions or landscape that determine the morality of it. You are falling back on "so you're saying" points that your idol Peterson was the subject of, not very cash money.

    Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
    My honest opinion is I think you need to reflect more. A lot of what you say is very disconnecting. This is in part of my opinion that you argue in bad faith.

    Last post in this thread, exhausted my will to continue.

  12. #562

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    I’m not resentful or anything over that, but I’m just saying. I grew up in a very religious country and even there, nobody really gave a shit what your religion was. We even have a Protestant President now. Nobody actually gives a shit.
    It's a different culture then. You wanted to know why I was so "anti religious", I explained why.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  13. #563

  14. #564
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    Divorce is neither moral or immoral.... it's the actions or landscape that determine the morality of it. You are falling back on "so you're saying" points that your idol Peterson was the subject of, not very cash money.



    My honest opinion is I think you need to reflect more. A lot of what you say is very disconnecting. This is in part of my opinion that you argue in bad faith.

    Last post in this thread, exhausted my will to continue.
    My point was more a snide remark. I didnít actually think youíd say that. But... I cannot see how a divorce is good lol. It never is. It can be better than the alternative, but thatís not good.

  15. #565
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    At least you can maybe see now why someone like me might take issue with their country's motto being "In god we trust"? It's not just this harmless thing.
    Yeah I think itís pretty deplorable that thing is happening. Now that you mention it, religious nutters in Romania (where Iím from) also used religion to justify banning gay marriage. So you do have a point there. For the record I actually completely detest organized religion in Romania (it sucks; thatís not even the sole reason why it sucks). Many people say they believe to fit in and then they act completely contrary to their beliefs. Itís disgusting.

  16. #566

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    My point was more a snide remark. I didn’t actually think you’d say that. But... I cannot see how a divorce is good lol. It never is. It can be better than the alternative, but that’s not good.
    You can't just put all "marriage" into a good bucket, and all of "divorce" into a bad bucket. What about religious individuals that abuse their position of authority and power to coerce underage girls to marry them? Is that type of marriage "moral", and the girl later wanting to escape "immoral"?

    Marriage isn't even for everyone. It shouldn't be for everyone. Some people want to marry. Others don't. The ones that choose to marry aren't in any way more moral than those that choose to never marry. Como se te occure.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  17. #567

  18. #568
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    You can't just put all "marriage" into a good bucket, and all of "divorce" into a bad bucket. What about religious individuals that abuse their position of authority and power to coerce underage girls to marry them? Is that type of marriage "moral", and the girl later wanting to escape "immoral"?

    Marriage isn't even for everyone. It shouldn't be for everyone. Some people want to marry. Others don't. The ones that choose to marry aren't in any way more moral than those that choose to never marry. Como se te occure.
    No, that isnít okay, and divorce is then justified. Thatís orobably one of the few cases where it isnít wrong in some manner.

  19. #569

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    We are totally going to have to just agree to disagree here. Im not sure there is any chance of us finding common ground when you admit in your own statement that of course the Union would not allow the confederacy to go peacefully while simultaneously blaming the confederacy as the aggressor.

    Wanting to leave and wanting war are two ideas I will never consider synonymous.

    I believe they want to call themselves CHOP now? And why on earth would I make such an absurd argument?

    I do love that place. Its the total face of hypocrisy.
    They say they want independence but then turn around and demand donations of food, berthing, clothing, and medical supplies.
    They say police are too violent and AR-15s are unnecessary but then they create their own cops geared out with AR-15s and physically assault people who wear anything that resembles a police support patch.
    I think my favorite moment was when someone was dying and they refused to allow police and emergency services into the area but then blamed the government for that persons death when they didnt get treatment fast enough.

    I like what they are doing because it demonstrates how bullshit their beliefs are in actual practice. Kinda reminds me of all the Anti-Gun nuts that hit me up for a gun as soon as they were afraid that the government may fall at the start of this COVID thing. Before people could only argue hypotheticals but now we get to grab the popcorn and watch their hypocrisy unfold in real time. Its very entertaining : )


    To your insinuation of the US government allowing anything to separate now its an invalid argument in my opinion for a number of reasons. The biggest is that at the time of the civil war there was nothing prohibiting states from leaving. That had simply not been addressed in any form. Now there is agreements and law prohibiting any state from leaving. Texas joined as sovereign nation and does not have the legal right to leave. These issues did not exist back then.
    The second issue is that now we have national debt and every American citizen owes 67,000 dollars twards that debt. So say..Wyoming (which has the smallest population in the US) wanted to leave they would need to fork over 38.7 billion dollars just to cover that National Debt.
    Thats not even touching on state / municipality debt, or the federal subsidization that keeps state funded public services and infrastructure working, or even the federal land holdings within the state.

    TLDR- Trying to compare areas separating from the US today is totally different than it was back then and makes no sense.
    Which laws and agreements prohibit secession? Unilateral secession is illegal, but secession through revolution or consent isn't. I suppose if you consider CHAZ a revolution, that makes it legal, no?

    Also glad to hear that the criteria for something being aggressive or not is whether it's legal.

    I'm curious to hear what you think should have actually happened during the Civil War, because the cognitive dissonance is dizzying. You say that slavery was bad and the Union was bad because they didn't end slavery 5 milliseconds after Lincoln was elected, yet them trying to stop the Confederacy from leaving to form a racist slave nation was aggressive and bad as well? I guess it is quite typical that "centrists" would argue that everyone should compromise and we should only enslave half the black people.
    Last edited by oops_ur_dead; June 29th, 2020 at 02:43 AM.

  20. #570
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Personally I donít think theyíre either moral or immoral, theyíre good or wrong. I think marriage compels people to adopt more responsibility which is a good thing (generally speaking), although as with most things there are exceptions, I donít think people are immoral by not getting married though. My point is that religious people do have point when they argue that divorce is wrong. I canít see it as right (again, generally speaking). This isnít to say that we should shame people who get divorced though, just that people should have a very long think before they do it and figure out how it came to that and what they might do in the future to avoid something similar occurring.

  21. #571

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    No, that isn’t okay, and divorce is then justified. That’s orobably one of the few cases where it isn’t wrong in some manner.
    Yet you just said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    My point was more a snide remark. I didn’t actually think you’d say that. But... I cannot see how a divorce is good lol. It never is. It can be better than the alternative, but that’s not good.
    Į\_(ツ)_/Į this is the whole point we're trying to make. The act of marriage is not moral. The act of divorce is not immoral. It's all circumstance.

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    Divorce is neither moral or immoral.... it's the actions or landscape that determine the morality of it. You are falling back on "so you're saying" points that your idol Peterson was the subject of, not very cash money.



    My honest opinion is I think you need to reflect more. A lot of what you say is very disconnecting. This is in part of my opinion that you argue in bad faith.

    Last post in this thread, exhausted my will to continue.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  22. #572

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    Divorce is neither moral or immoral.... it's the actions or landscape that determine the morality of it. You are falling back on "so you're saying" points that your idol Peterson was the subject of, not very cash money.



    My honest opinion is I think you need to reflect more. A lot of what you say is very disconnecting. This is in part of my opinion that you argue in bad faith.

    Last post in this thread, exhausted my will to continue.
    No man please we need rational voices here.

  23. #573

  24. #574

  25. #575
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Sorry I feel I should present the entire situation as it is.

    Divorce, generally speaking, is wrong. Itís indicative of something going horribly wrong at some point in time. Maybe you married the wrong person. Maybe you just couldnít settle your differences properly. Maybe... thereís a lot of maybes. Itís the correct pathway when youíre in an abusive relationship, or when you literally cannot continue to coexist peacefully.

    Its justified (but wrong) if the person you married doesnít cut it (even if theyíre not abusive). You have a duty to yourself to live the life you want to live. That doesnít make divorce good - you still need to consider the consequences it will have on the other person and your children. But it can be justified in that scenario. Thereís a very fine line between Ďmy current partner isnít very exciting and I donít want to spend the rest of my life with themí and Ďmarriage is just about the thrill and divorce is juceí. Thereís some situations where uts... not really right but not wholly the wrong thing to do, either.

  26. #576
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Marriage can be the right thing to do. It depends on a lot of things. Not everyone should be a parent, and people who donít want to raise children SHOULDNíT marry someone. Or they can marry, they just shouldnít have kids.

    Marrying someone because you were forced to do so (rape) is wrong. Thereís nothing good about it.

    But the thing is, marriage forces people to become more responsible (generally speaking). It is definitely the right thing to do for mature adults who want children.

  27. #577
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    In keeping with what Iím saying, I think thereís a lot of things that are wrong but that are sometimes justified. For example, if someone holds a gun to your childrenís head, killing them is wrong but youíre justified in doing that. I donít think something being wrong means you (necessarily) shouldnít do it. It means yiu should consider your actions very carefully before you do something thatís wrong.

  28. #578
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Okay the comparison either murder is a bit dramatic. Letís say instead that lying is wrong but itís justified sometimes. Doesnít make any less wrong though.

  29. #579

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    The whole point of marriage is that a serious effort is made to maintain the relationship following the marriage. Various laws / benefits can only be feasibly applied to married couples on this basis. If the institution of marriage becomes sufficiently redundant, many of these laws would become redundant too. People who get married and divorce a week later are undermining the institution of marriage and are showing a lack of respect. Of course, the person you marry may spontaneously reveal themselves as a psychopathic abuser after 3 days and then you're fully justified in leaving them =P. However, you're kind of dodging the discussion by insisting that "the actions or landscape determine the morality of it" - that applies to literally every decision anyone ever makes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  30. #580

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    To be clear, it's not like I look down my nose at individuals who get divorces. It's their life to live and it's not my place to judge them. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't possibly fully know their circumstances. But acting like marriage and divorce are moral choices that can be made in a solely individualistic context strikes me as a little off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  31. #581

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    The unintended consequence of typing out that religion made people view divorce as immoral...

    I wasn't even arguing whether or not people should get divorced or not, just that religious organizations' influence on the black community kept more families together. I feel a little bad that Ganelon is just getting hit.

    That being said, I think "In God we Trust" does indeed bring to mind a sort of identifying, "Hey my higher power backs me" which is religious. I'm pretty sure a lot of other countries have similar wording on their coins, so when those coffers are put to use in the war machine, which one is God backing? Pretty obvious to me that someone doesn't have a god, and likely both. Religiousness has done much wrong in the world.

  32. #582

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Kind of dodging the discussion? What discussion? That people can be moral or immoral with marriage and divorce? No shit, there is no discussion to be had there. People can do fucked up shit we all get that. Ganelon said divorce is immoral. Not only is that an explosive hill to stand on, it's factually wrong even considering the institutes stance on it that he was advocating for. I'm not here to argue how people can be moral or immoral with marriage, I was here to point out saying divorce is immoral is retarded.

    Yzb25, is divorce immoral?

  33. #583

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    Kind of dodging the discussion? What discussion? That people can be moral or immoral with marriage and divorce? No shit, there is no discussion to be had there. People can do fucked up shit we all get that. Ganelon said divorce is immoral. Not only is that an explosive hill to stand on, it's factually wrong even considering the institutes stance on it that he was advocating for. I'm not here to argue how people can be moral or immoral with marriage, I was here to point out saying divorce is immoral is retarded.

    Yzb25, is divorce immoral?
    No, but it's like not recycling. When it happens a lot it makes the world worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  34. #584

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    "dodging the discussion" is the wrong phrasing. I didn't mean to imply you were being dishonest or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  35. #585

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Satanists are encouraging moral behavior? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole point of satanism to promote admittedly pure evil (whether that exists or not) and literally praise it?
    The only two I have studied was the Church of Satan and the Satanic Temple.
    The Church of Satan basically argued Nihilism with some code of behavior. A lot of Anton Lavey's teachings were centered around enlightenment and it was more of an Anti-religion whos position was against other religions suppressing what man was meant to be. They basically do not believe in God or Satan or anything of the sort.

    The Satanic Temple is looked pretty similar to me but honestly looked more like a political movement than a church. Their mission is stated as "to encourage benevolence and empathy among all people" and they have a code of morals I think just about everyone would agree with in line with that.
    Spoiler : Their stated moral code :
    I- One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
    II- The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
    III- One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
    IV- The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
    V- Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
    VI- People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
    VII- They similarly do not believe in God or Satan and their largest pushes are to increase the separation of church and state.

    I think a real cornerstone of their belief is Autonomy in every way; that your body is yours and you should be able to do whatever you want with it to extremes (but also to include things like Abortion.) I got the feeling that this 'religion' is only a religion for tax purposes and is specifically designed to tear down christian influence on government policy.

    The stuff is kinda fascinating if you ever choose to take the time to dig into it. The closest thing to what people typically consider satanic behavior I have read into was either the "Left Hand Path" but that is not so much of a group as an entire field of practice with truckloads of groups under it..

    -edit Or maybe read into the "books of terror and longing." Theres some stuff in there thats pretty out there
    Last edited by Helz; June 29th, 2020 at 04:32 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    if we could just stop catering to the toxic attitude and apathy that has become the culture of this site.
    Its easy to tear something down. Building something real takes a level of conviction and dedication that is not cool or fun.

  36. #586
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    Kind of dodging the discussion? What discussion? That people can be moral or immoral with marriage and divorce? No shit, there is no discussion to be had there. People can do fucked up shit we all get that. Ganelon said divorce is immoral. Not only is that an explosive hill to stand on, it's factually wrong even considering the institutes stance on it that he was advocating for. I'm not here to argue how people can be moral or immoral with marriage, I was here to point out saying divorce is immoral is retarded.

    Yzb25, is divorce immoral?
    I said divorce is wrong, not immoral. Huge difference.

  37. #587

  38. #588
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Divorce is generally wrong, and thereís no escaping that. I didnít say victims should be blamed for their own misfortune, I said people should think HARD before going for a divorce, and consider why divorce became necessary. Sure you can place blame on the other person all you want for their evil all you want, but the fact of the matter is, you married them. Why? Simply regarding yourself as a victim wonít help you. You need to figure out what (if any) beliefs, principles, flaws you may have precipitated either the breakup or you marrying someone abusive/who isnít the right fit for you. People should grow a backbone and figure out where they went wrong. Sure the other person is evil but that doesnít change the fact that they managed to deceive you. Figure out why that is, try to salvage your life and make sure that it doesnít affect you AS MUCH as you can, and fix whatever it was that led to the initial situation.

  39. #589
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Of course divorce isnít immoral. But itís also almost always wrong. And you really canít argue otherwise.

  40. #590

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    It is still denoting A God. Your choice of wording implies you are talking from some religious viewpoint (the only ones left out are of the atheist variety and why should they care?) and honestly this just confirms my view. Non-religious people are the minority in the world, and then in the USA it's drastically even more shifted in favor of theists. It makes sense to me that "In God we trust" has been codified in US law as NOT being a religious statement when the people that it is in reference to are overwhelmingly the majority of the populace. The religious population in the USA in 2016 was 79.1%, opposed to 20.9% non religion/no answers.

    If a vote was put to the public where religious beliefs or lack of were attached to an individuals vote about whether "In God we trust" is a religious statement or not, I have a feeling I already will know what the results would look like.
    Alcoholics Anonymous has practicing atheists who use the word "God" as their 'higher power' that keeps them sober. It can be simple things like their Kids or their Life/Sanity. From what you are saying it sounds like you are just getting hung up on semantics because you want to push the Atheist faith. How is that any different than pushing a religion? In that regard spirituality goes out the window and its just about 'us vs them' on both sides.
    My point was that I never understood that drive to say "I do not believe in any God and I want to push this belief on those who do." I get that religions are all too often really disgusting things but they provide some basic functions I believe every human should practice. The simple process of challenging your belief structure and reconciling your behavior to your belief structure is just a healthy human practice. If someone does it and ties it into what you see as an imaginary sky man why do you feel the drive to push against that?
    One of the angles I push is that religion is a healthy and beautiful thing but the power structures that manipulate it are really evil. For example I believe the Vatican is easily the most evil organizations that has ever existed in documented history but I think Catholicism brings many people morality, peace, and comfort.
    I would rather you just ask me about my beliefs than take one word I say and assume my belief structure and therefor agenda in the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    "In god we trust" is in no way a moral statement, and should not be the motto of a country that prides itself in being a diverse melting pot of ideas.
    What do you think the nations motto should be then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    if we could just stop catering to the toxic attitude and apathy that has become the culture of this site.
    Its easy to tear something down. Building something real takes a level of conviction and dedication that is not cool or fun.

  41. #591
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    The other person who was abusive should undoubtedly be punished. Itís just that, marriage is incredibly complicated. People who have been through a divorce need to examine the circumstances that led to it and figure out their own beliefs with respect to the other person, love, the importance of marriage, in personal tterms. Maybe they shouldnít have been married at all. Maybe they just drifted apart because the two parties were unable to settle their differences. Maybe the other person took advantage of their love and goodwill for monetary/emotional benefits or simply out of pure evil. But itís an extremely important and traumatic scenario and people really need to start asking themselves some very important questions prior to, during and after a divorce. You should definitely divorce someone who is being abusive, but you should ask yourself, why did you even marry them in first place? What compelled you to marry someone who was flawed in that particular manner? Did you simply not see it coming? If so you should probably be a lot more careful around people, because bad people do exist and you should be very wary of allowing someone into such a long term relationship with you if theyíre not a good person.

  42. #592

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    It's even worse growing up in Utah. Mormons account for almost 90% of my state's legislature. And believe me, they consistently try to impose the will of the LDS church here in the state as much as they can. The LDS church literally pays lobbyists to push their religious agendas through my state. Voters will vote one way, but the church doesn't like it? They impose their will. They enforce their moral code.
    I can see where your coming from. The LDS Church does some pretty sick stuff. Thats probably one of the only religions I have ever seen shamelessly embrace pedophilia and its always bothered me that stuff goes on with impunity in America.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    if we could just stop catering to the toxic attitude and apathy that has become the culture of this site.
    Its easy to tear something down. Building something real takes a level of conviction and dedication that is not cool or fun.

  43. #593
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Alcoholics Anonymous has practicing atheists who use the word "God" as their 'higher power' that keeps them sober. It can be simple things like their Kids or their Life/Sanity. From what you are saying it sounds like you are just getting hung up on semantics because you want to push the Atheist faith. How is that any different than pushing a religion? In that regard spirituality goes out the window and its just about 'us vs them' on both sides.
    My point was that I never understood that drive to say "I do not believe in any God and I want to push this belief on those who do." I get that religions are all too often really disgusting things but they provide some basic functions I believe every human should practice. The simple process of challenging your belief structure and reconciling your behavior to your belief structure is just a healthy human practice. If someone does it and ties it into what you see as an imaginary sky man why do you feel the drive to push against that?
    One of the angles I push is that religion is a healthy and beautiful thing but the power structures that manipulate it are really evil. For example I believe the Vatican is easily the most evil organizations that has ever existed in documented history but I think Catholicism brings many people morality, peace, and comfort.
    I would rather you just ask me about my beliefs than take one word I say and assume my belief structure and therefor agenda in the future.
    What do you think the nations motto should be then?
    Couldnt have said it better myself, although do you think the Vatican is still evil nowadays?

  44. #594
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Yeah and Mormonism is also for polygamy. I never understood why that religion exists. I really donít like it either, and Iím glad Iím not the only one.

  45. #595
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Speaking of pedophilia, you guys donít know this but we had a pedophilia party here in the Netherlands.

  46. #596

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Yeah and Mormonism is also for polygamy. I never understood why that religion exists. I really don’t like it either, and I’m glad I’m not the only one.
    What's wrong with polygamy?
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    deathworld's and RLVG's suicides made me lul. I take a lot of pleasure in knowing that I gave you an night action, and that you used it to kill yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    At least Mesk has lewdy lefty and raunchy righty. You're not even Canadian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    BRO HUUUUUUMP!! That's so Mesk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    fucketh me in the ass

  47. #597
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by deathworlds View Post
    What's wrong with polygamy?
    Itís pretty misogynistic in my view.

  48. #598

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Itís pretty misogynistic in my view.
    It's pretty misogynistic to think that polygamy is strictly one man and multiple women
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    deathworld's and RLVG's suicides made me lul. I take a lot of pleasure in knowing that I gave you an night action, and that you used it to kill yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    At least Mesk has lewdy lefty and raunchy righty. You're not even Canadian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    BRO HUUUUUUMP!! That's so Mesk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    fucketh me in the ass

  49. #599

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    Which laws and agreements prohibit secession? Unilateral secession is illegal, but secession through revolution or consent isn't. I suppose if you consider CHAZ a revolution, that makes it legal, no?
    My understanding is that it was part of the treaty signed after the civil war to bind the states back into America and it was also written into every state that was formed by virtue of the states being formed on land that was essentially owned by America. The difference between that and war at the time of sucession was that the sates entered into the nation bringing their land and they therefor had no obligation in any way to America.
    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    Also glad to hear that the criteria for something being aggressive or not is whether it's legal.
    No clue where you got that from so.. Shrug?
    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    I'm curious to hear what you think should have actually happened during the Civil War, because the cognitive dissonance is dizzying. You say that slavery was bad and the Union was bad because they didn't end slavery 5 milliseconds after Lincoln was elected, yet them trying to stop the Confederacy from leaving to form a racist slave nation was aggressive and bad as well? I guess it is quite typical that "centrists" would argue that everyone should compromise and we should only enslave half the black people.
    There were wrongs on all sides but I think the best thing would have been if the Union actually had the intentions they pretend to have had today. As I have said many times I believe that the morality of an action is defined by the intention behind the action. So yes declaring war on the south is unjustified but I would view it as totally acceptable if the objective actually was to enforce human rights. The problem was that it wasn't. It was just a play for greed that costed hundreds of thousands of lives.

    Think of it this way- Its wrong to kill someone because you want their wallet but its justified to kill someone to prevent them from doing an extreme evil.

    The difference is the intention and thats why I get all pissy about people acting like the Union was good and the Confederacy was evil. They were both committing some very evil actions for greed and power.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    if we could just stop catering to the toxic attitude and apathy that has become the culture of this site.
    Its easy to tear something down. Building something real takes a level of conviction and dedication that is not cool or fun.

  50. #600
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: Right-wing liberalism vs Conservvatism

    I mean. Most people who marry women are men. So itís nit really misogynistic

 

 

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