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  1. ISO #301

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    This is such a chaotic thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    About economic systems. One question I’ve always asked myself I s - what comes next after capitalism? It’s almosy certainly an economic system we’ve never heard of... maybe 3D printing and increasing automation will bring it about. If everyone can produce, maybe companies will become sort of obsolete and everyone will just be self-employed. Perhaps the new economy will be based around the ownership of natural resources or of land or artificially intelligent systems (and AI research, ofc).

    This is a very basic and probably naive assumption, but it’s nteresting to think about.
    I strongly doubt the next economic system involves obsolecence of companies: they have too much power. The only way I see this happening (and even then, it's highly unlikely) is if there is a massive worldwide uprising against them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    About socialism. I actually (personally) have no issues with socialism as long as I myself don’t have to participate in it. For instance I have absolutely no problem with Jewish kibbutzim because they’re free associations; the people in them *want* to be in them. And they don’t want to extend it to anyone else. I would never do that myself, but hey if it works for you, go for it, man. Live and let live.
    The idea of socialism is literally to extend it to everyone, though. Else, it becomes the principle of "capitalist insurance". If everyone were to say "oh, I don't have any disabilities! Why should I pay for people who do?", then the point of having a disability insurance would disappear.
    Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all...
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  2. ISO #302

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Disagree, socialism should not be universal because socialists have to realize not everyone wants to participate in a socialist society, and won’t be productive (and very probably deeply unhappy) with one. On the one hand, when you have a socialist society that everyone wants to be a part of, those tend to be quite productive because the members of it willingly joined it. I mean, look at Jewish kibbutzim. Many of them are quite rich and some even work in the military field.

  3. ISO #303

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Disagree, socialism should not be universal because socialists have to realize not everyone wants to participate in a socialist society, and won’t be productive (and very probably deeply unhappy) with one. On the one hand, when you have a socialist society that everyone wants to be a part of, those tend to be quite productive because the members of it willingly joined it. I mean, look at Jewish kibbutzim. Many of them are quite rich and some even work in the military field.
    Then put all the non-socialists in a semi-autonomous gulag run by them and let them get into bad positions and not be able to get out of these! Or more realistically and more seriously, have a referendum about it if it's that much of an issue for a large portion of the population, or just elect a party that will abolish socialist measures. Socialist measures cannot be half-assed: either you apply them fully or you just don't because you're throwing government's money and time down the sink due to lack of efficiency.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  4. ISO #304

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Socialist measures should not come from the government because that means you give the government thebright to manage the economy and welfare, and the government tends mismanage those. Everything should be approached and dealt with in an individual basis, and not even a benevolent government is capable of taking into account individual problems or issues. Somethingbas widespread as government-run social security never could, anyways.

  5. ISO #305

  6. ISO #306

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Ngl the idea of a private entity running social security sounds really bad. The only thing close to private social security here is Superannuation, which is really fkn good but it's self-funded and inaccessible until retirement age (60)

  7. ISO #307

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    How does a private company stay in business and ethically offer food, shelter, medical service to those that require it?
    Like private insurance companies do, although I wasn’t necessarily talking about that. I was talking more about full-on socialism with collective ownership of production and redistributive or egalitarian income systems, such as you’d see in jewish collective farms.

  8. ISO #308

  9. ISO #309

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    Poor people can't afford insurance lol. this is why the two method approach is good. Private for those who can and public for those who cannot.
    T h i s .

    ~~

    While the government does suck at managing the economy and welfare, private companies do, too! This is especially true about welfare, since the only thing stopping private companies from giving a shit service is the fear of scandals and of being dominated by other companies... which implies they don't also give a shit service. As shows the really horrible situation about insurance in the US, no national insurance system doesn't work so well, because private companies don't work so well when they have by far the biggest share of the population's needs. As for economy, there is necessary ingerence from the state in economy: pure economic liberalism led to the Great Depression for a reason. Plus, it's not like creating a national insurance system stops private companies from existing and from trying to offer a better service to those who can afford it. The way you say things makes it look like having a national insurance system is a direct road to a communist-style planified economy, which is absolutely false.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  10. ISO #310

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    I'm literally clarifying so I don't assume!!!!!
    The world may never know

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  11. ISO #311

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Min wage in Australia is ~$39,197 a year, or $753 a week. $783 from that yearly income goes towards taxes for public health care. That equates to $15 a week of health insurance in the public sector. Min wage full time workers here are hardly impacted by the cost of public health care. We aren't even taxed for it until we earn $18,000. Then comes a surcharge for anyone earning over $90,000 and STILL are in the public healthcare system when they can easily afford private insurance actively enticing people to unclog the public sector. Also, the yearly amount for welfare recipients is ~$15,000. This is below the income threshold where citizens begin to pay tax towards public healthcare so they don't pay anything, yet they still receive it.

    Public healthcare can easily be funded and provided. The quality of the care is another debate but with my experience with public healthcare - it's fine and affordable. I have been on numerous different income stream rates and can atest to it personally. Yes there are wait times for non critical things, but if it's urgent you aren't going to be put on a wait list or be bankrupt.
    Last edited by rumox; September 26th, 2020 at 12:54 AM.

  12. ISO #312

  13. ISO #313

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    I really didnt like this quiz. Every 5th question made me cringe and wish I could throw a lot of context into the situation. For example:
    "Is oppression by corporations is more of a concern than oppression by governments."
    How is there any difference when I believe I live in a Corporatocracy? Or at the very least some hybrid of a Plutocracy or Oligarchy. The oppression of the wealthy or corporation is one and the same when they control the government..
    This is how I felt for a huge amount of the questions. It asks deep questions with the limitations of shallow answers which just sucks.

    I get what its trying to do but there was also quite a few questions that felt loaded.

    download.png

    Those were my results for whatever thats worth.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  14. ISO #314

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    Min wage in Australia is ~$39,197 a year, or $753 a week. $783 from that yearly income goes towards taxes for public health care. That equates to $15 a week of health insurance in the public sector. Min wage full time workers here are hardly impacted by the cost of public health care. We aren't even taxed for it until we earn $18,000. Then comes a surcharge for anyone earning over $90,000 and STILL are in the public healthcare system when they can easily afford private insurance actively enticing people to unclog the public sector. Also, the yearly amount for welfare recipients is ~$15,000. This is below the income threshold where citizens begin to pay tax towards public healthcare so they don't pay anything, yet they still receive it.

    Public healthcare can easily be funded and provided. The quality of the care is another debate but with my experience with public healthcare - it's fine and affordable. I have been on numerous different income stream rates and can atest to it personally. Yes there are wait times for non critical things, but if it's urgent you aren't going to be put on a wait list or be bankrupt.
    One of the most significant things I think people confuse is the ideas of socialism vs subsidized capitalism.

    Yes- Socialist healthcare can work. -But-

    There is a HUGE difference from America pushing Insurance to subsidize capitalistic healthcare and an actual socialist system.

    I really hate how people confuse the two. Like we in america can just spread the cost around through insurance and subsidization and it will somehow some way magically equate to a socialist system while we simultaneously allow for capitalistic profits.

    Spreading the cost does not reduce the cost in any way. Socialist economy's are fundamentally different from capitalistic ones and subsidized capitalism is the least effective structure of healthcare I have herd of but its insanely advocated for because people do not understand how to tell the difference between a practice that supports spreading the burden of payment to hold unjustifiable price points with a total restructure of a healthcare system. They are not the same and I wish more people would advocate the difference.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  15. ISO #315

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    subsidized capitalism is the least effective structure of healthcare I have herd
    I can't say I hold it as a paragon of an ideal healthcare system, but that's exactly how the Dutch healthcare system works, and it's very frequently ranked as the best in Europe on a number of measures.

  16. ISO #316

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Also regarding the Nazis, they're extremely authoritarian and conservative socially, but economically I would say they're more center of right. Still quite capitalistic under the confines of a full-blown totalitarian state, mind you.

    But I maintain that it's a bizarre and nonsequitous point to bring up in most contexts because rarely are the economics of Nazi Germany discussed or relevant to a discussion. I believe that the reason many people bring it up is to try to muddy the waters and make it seem like leftism and Nazism are related, or to dissociate the atrocities of the Nazis from racism, social conservatism, and authoritarianism.

  17. ISO #317

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    no, the reason people bring it up is because many prominent leftists supported the Nazi ideology. example: Bernard Shaw. also, I did not say they were leftist, I said they are hard to classify (which they are). I don’t understand this insistence that they were right. They incorporated aspects of both sides of the spectrum. Like I said, even Hitler admitted to this.

  18. ISO #318

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Plotato View Post
    ok nerds, i can't believe im going to have to take on a serious character for the first time in this sewer of a site but i need to elaborate on this topic because saint peter hath declared me the next messiah.

    you wanna know why the cost of insurance is so damn high? because barely any competition exists in this field. a public + private combination ensures your insurance stays shit because 1) there is no incentive for the public service to do itself any better because public industries have virtually no competition, and because the public edition of "heathcare" exists, only existing private insurance (which are usually the big fucks) can maintain any standing. what this does is 1) limits choice and 2) people always say government should provide a basic level of care. well, what is the basic level??? what if the government doesn't cover say, chemotherapy? colonoscopies? aids treatment? in addition, healthcare is also goddamn expensive because increased regulation to healthcare logistics have 1) enacted a barrier to entry and 2) for existing corporations, allow quasi-monopolistic pricing and are forced to raise their prices because the time it takes for healthcare equipment to be approved is too damn high, and thus the costs have to be high in order to recuperate.

    this is the current argument undergoing any hybrid system and its -- government is never doing enough but government should provide healthcare to people, so the costs of government healthcare keeps rising and rising. obamacare hasn't solved the problem of healthcare at all. people's needs are unlimited and thus there is no such thing as a "government basis" for healthcare. a hybrid system wouldn't work, hasn't worked, and the evidence is the united states with the aberration that is the promise of "affordable care". I wonder if people know Sweden's social security is privatized, or that Switzerland has a decentralized insurance system, precisely because government, like everything else, always mismanages these processes because how the hell is a politician with a degree in history or law going to figure out the logistics of social security, or healthcare for the matter?? this is one of the biggest problems, where government begins to "budget" healthcare, which it shouldn't. give people what they need at that time. the difference between how private healthcare "budgets" healthcare is that private healthcare have to budget towards demand, something that is done MUCH MUCH faster by private choices. this is why LASIK is so easy and quick to get (in the U.S., at least), because LASIK is one of those things untouched by public malfeasance.

    this is the thing people keep misunderstanding about healthcare in the private sector. they HAVE to perform well. if they perform badly, then they will get 1) sued to death 2) shittalked to death and 3) deathed to death. but if the government performs badly then well we'll just increase our budget to fix that problem... and if that didn't fix it we'll just increase our budget again.

    the fact that government provides a baseline to begin with, and a pretty high and costly one at that to begin with, gets rid of choice. Sweden, UK have their "universal healthcare" models which still are burdened by bureaucratic inefficiency, and continually rising costs. the tax burden, by the way, is mainly on the poor. most of universal healthcare systems still affect the poor the most in society, and as the cost of healthcare rises, so will the burden on poor people. "taxing" rich people is a pipe dream typically and it only serves to reduce tax revenue more often than it raises it. the "middle class" is the group to which the most tax will be collected, virtually always. it works slightly better in Switzerland because the government only subsidizes the poor who cant afford it, whilst everyone else is mandated to purchase private. otherwise, their hands are off the table on healthcare and insurance.

    so you wanna know how to solve the insurance problem? get government's grabby little hands away from the whole shieza. really. they're not helping, in fact, they're only enacting higher walls for entry, while they are allowing themselves to perform like crap when it does. in no way can private insurance make someone wait for care because the person needing care is the customer, and they NEED customers. in no way can private insurance deny people with preexisting care, because someone else will steal that revenue if they choose to deny it. but no, government adds rules and exerts control over these industries thinking they can do good, but all it does is, in fact, ALLOW insurance to deny people with preexisting care because lo and behold, if you can cut costs, you will, and only by virtue of the government allowing you the environment to do such a thing.

    speaking of insurance, did you know switching to Geico could save you 15% or more on car insurance.

    yes, i wrote that shit so you could switch to Geico. Geico gets you the insurance savings you expect. Get an additional 15% credit on new auto, motorcycle, and RV policies for the full 6-month and 12-month insurance policy term.

    ass bandits
    I feel your analysis fails to account for the full nature of competition.

    Healthy competition fundamentally starts at the consumer. Consumers (en masse) need to assess their options in an informed, objective manner, and make the correct decision for health insurance companies to be incentivized to cut costs and offer a higher quality service. In practice, most the consumers don't understand their insurance very well, and the insurance companies devote their time to obfuscating their own costs and coverage. So, in practice, it's not clear to the health insurance companies that simply cutting their costs will make them more competitive - the consumer may not even recognise the benefit they're receiving.

    Another prerequisite of competition is that it needs to be more profitable for companies to compete rather than just to work together. It's not always in the interests of health insurance companies to gut eachother's profits plummeting costs. It may be (and often is) more profitable for all the companies to agree to maintain some exorbitant cost. Healthcare is unique in the sense that the notion of supply and demand is rather intrinsically broken. If all the apples at the supermarket are gone off, you won't buy an apple. If all the video games this year look lame, you won't buy a video game. However, if you're sick, you still need care. So, if the health insurance companies all agree to raise their costs together, they know your only option is to suck it up. What usually fixes issues like this is a new competitor entering the market and offering cheaper costs. But hospitals generally do exclusive contracts with one or a select few health insurance companies. Entering the market requires you to out-bid all these massive, well-established companies for contracts at these hospitals. In short, it'd be such an expensive endeavor that new entrants into the market have much more to profit from just working with the powers that be rather than trying to overthrow an entire system.

    The last thing about competition is that it doesn't always benefit the consumer. There are fundamentally two ways of making your product more attractive to the consumer. You can raise the value of your own product, or sabotage someone else's (indirectly). Why compete with this small insurance company when you can simply buy up exclusive contracts with all the hospitals in their area? This is a less relevant point since US companies are now forced to take people with preexisting conditions, but preexisting conditions presented another example of competition not benefitting the consumer - accepting these consumers would only raise costs, and make the company less competitive. This is also an example of how profit incentive doesn't always maximize coverage, as you imply in your second-to-last paragraph. Profit incentive is a curious thing, and in some sectors can produce very perverse outcomes. I'm reminded of that HIV treatment that got its price hiked by 10x a few years back in the US - an objectively profitable move if at least 10% of HIV patients continue to pay for the drug, irrespective of whether the rest don't survive. Or the absurd cost of insulin. Though I digress.

    This doesn't really link into the above anywhere, but it's important to remember that the US congress sadly doesn't just have a corruption issue, but a corruption culture. Members of congress receive between hundreds of thousands of dollars to millions of dollars from health insurance companies, and then will take large sums from other key players. They rely on this money to win reelection. Members of congress that propose or even support bills that piss off the health insurance companies guarantee that those hundreds of thousands will be used against them during the next election. This is also why many regulations that exist appear only to further limit external competition. What you guys need is full on state-funded healthcare. It wouldn't be great, but anything else would inevitably be worse due to the pharmaceutical company's and health insurance company's power.
    Last edited by yzb25; September 26th, 2020 at 04:34 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  19. ISO #319

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    A prominent leftist supporting a government does not make that government leftist.

    They are not hard to classify. They rampantly privatized state industries, were opposed to social welfare on principle, and broke up trade unions. Their economic policy is further right than the majority of world governments today.

    Also their entire social welfare system was based on private donations, while they cut income taxes.
    Last edited by oops_ur_dead; September 26th, 2020 at 04:32 AM.

  20. ISO #320

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    they privatized them and strictly controlled them, lol.
    idk, it’s funny I’m the only one being debated with when someone left-leaning actually agrees with me that they controlled the economy (@Marshmallow Marshall)

  21. ISO #321

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    they privatized them and strictly controlled them, lol.
    idk, it’s funny I’m the only one being debated with when someone left-leaning actually agrees with me that they controlled the economy (@Marshmallow Marshall)
    How did they strictly control them?

  22. ISO #322

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    One of the most significant things I think people confuse is the ideas of socialism vs subsidized capitalism.

    Yes- Socialist healthcare can work. -But-

    There is a HUGE difference from America pushing Insurance to subsidize capitalistic healthcare and an actual socialist system.

    I really hate how people confuse the two. Like we in america can just spread the cost around through insurance and subsidization and it will somehow some way magically equate to a socialist system while we simultaneously allow for capitalistic profits.

    Spreading the cost does not reduce the cost in any way. Socialist economy's are fundamentally different from capitalistic ones and subsidized capitalism is the least effective structure of healthcare I have herd of but its insanely advocated for because people do not understand how to tell the difference between a practice that supports spreading the burden of payment to hold unjustifiable price points with a total restructure of a healthcare system. They are not the same and I wish more people would advocate the difference.
    What is the actual socialist system being pushed in america? All I hear is people talking about bringing healthcare in line with other countries such as my own

  23. ISO #323

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Also a country with a population as big as America will have a big health care budget, it's unavoidable. What is stopping America from adopting the models from other countries where it simply just works? From my POV any push to restructuring the public healthcare in line with models like mine is slammed as being a communist agenda.

  24. ISO #324

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Socialist measures should not come from the government because that means you give the government thebright to manage the economy and welfare, and the government tends mismanage those. Everything should be approached and dealt with in an individual basis, and not even a benevolent government is capable of taking into account individual problems or issues. Somethingbas widespread as government-run social security never could, anyways.
    I know Ganelon clarified his meaning behind this post, but this is basically the same rhetoric I see time and time again slamming proposals for public health care reform. Government run social security is untenable? Literally look at every other top performing country. We are all strong social states.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvard Institute of Economic Research
    European countries are much more generous to the poor relative to the US level of generosity. Economic models suggest that redistribution is a function of the variance and skewness of the pre-tax income distribution, the volatility of income (perhaps because of trade shocks), the social costs of taxation and the expected income mobility of the median voter. None of these factors appear to explain the differences between the US and Europe. Instead, the differences appear to be the result of racial heterogeneity in the US and American political institutions. Racial animosity in the US makes redistribution to the poor, who are disproportionately black, unappealing to many voters. American political institutions limited the growth of a socialist party, and more generally limited the political power of the poor.
    I don't like how this abstract from a Harvard paper loads their research pointing towards the cause being racism, but I think it points generally towards the correct direction. Americans simply just do not care.

  25. ISO #325

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Top performing countries did not get where they are due to socialism, though. They got there due to capitalism.
    And if you’re comparing them to developing countries in Eastern Europe, say - Eastern Europe is a shithole. Take it from me. They can barely organize their own governments properly.

  26. ISO #326

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    My problem isn’t even socialism per se, it’s the idea that it has to come from the government when that has been tried with disastrous results (the Soviet Union, etc) time and time again. Like Helz is saying, government healthcare isn’t even socialism... it’s a capitalist economy with some government regulation.

    Doesn’t even remotely resemble what’s happening in co-ops.

  27. ISO #327

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Why would I compare strong countries with shit countries? How is that a fair comparison? Are you saying America or Australia can be comparative to shitty eastern euro country?

    I really want to know what these proposed "socialist" (communism) reforms are, because from what I have seen over the past decade is that what people are asking for is more-or-less what nearly every other top performing country has, but are argued down as being communists.

  28. ISO #328

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    No lol you said that the best performing countries are all social and I then said that that has nothing to do with their success. They are social because they are successful, not the other way around. I’m stating that Eastern Europe et al is performing poorly because of their economic/political history and you cannot compare them to the most successful countries.

    Actually third world countries like in South America, South Asia and Africa aren’t even worth mentioning.

  29. ISO #329

  30. ISO #330

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    How did they strictly control them?
    This applies to the 6 million unemployed German citizens at the start of Nazi Germany. They mandated that everyone has to work, while also propping up state controlled unions that declared nobody can be fired but at the same time nobody can quit. "Career" changes had to be approved by the government. Banks were brought under state control, wages were controlled by the state, price was controlled by the state, etc. If you think of a government leaning left or right based upon big government vs small government, Nazi Germany was big government (as any authoritative government is) which is usually attributed to being on the left of the spectrum.

  31. ISO #331

  32. ISO #332

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    About economic systems. One question I’ve always asked myself I s - what comes next after capitalism? It’s almosy certainly an economic system we’ve never heard of... maybe 3D printing and increasing automation will bring it about. If everyone can produce, maybe companies will become sort of obsolete and everyone will just be self-employed. Perhaps the new economy will be based around the ownership of natural resources or of land or artificially intelligent systems (and AI research, ofc).

    This is a very basic and probably naive assumption, but it’s nteresting to think about.
    You have a more optimistic view of the world than me. I expect the Chinese model to be the next big thing. I don't know if the Chinese model will replace the current model per se, but I think as the US superpower continues to decline, countries (especially less stable countries) will start to feel the pressure to flip to a Chinese model, in exactly the same way communist countries felt crushing pressure to flip to capitalism after the fall of the Soviet Union. They understand how to use technology to enforce rigid social unity in a way the extremists of yesterday could only dream of. Though China doesn't share the USA's fervour for spreading their ideology, they will nevertheless have an incentive to export their political model to secure more reliable allies and trading partners.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  33. ISO #333

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    You have a more optimistic view of the world than me. I expect the Chinese model to be the next big thing. I don't know if the Chinese model will replace the current model per se, but I think as the US superpower continues to decline, countries (especially less stable countries) will start to feel the pressure to flip to a Chinese model, in exactly the same way communist countries felt crushing pressure to flip to capitalism after the fall of the Soviet Union. They understand how to use technology to enforce rigid social unity in a way the extremists of yesterday could only dream of. Though China doesn't share the USA's fervour for spreading their ideology, they will nevertheless have an incentive to export their political model to secure more reliable allies and trading partners.
    I (sadly) think this is 100 % accurate. If the United States fall apart or even simply decline, the Western bloc loses influence and power, and what appears to be the new Chinese bloc will become dominant. I feel like Putin's Russia could benefit from a partnership with China, too, forming an actual Eastern bloc, but this time with Asia instead of Eastern Europe.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  34. ISO #334

  35. ISO #335

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    China is going to be fucked after covid
    Do not underestimate Winnie the Pooh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  36. ISO #336

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    China is going to be fucked after covid
    Nope: authoritarians have the upper hand when managing a pandemic, since they can just lock everyone up and jail them/shoot them if they don't obey.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  37. ISO #337

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Nope: authoritarians have the upper hand when managing a pandemic, since they can just lock everyone up and jail them/shoot them if they don't obey.
    No, that isn’t it lol. The international community is going to fuck China over. Especially if it turns out the virus was released on purpose by them (not saying that it was), in which case there may even be a war.

  38. ISO #338

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    No, that isn’t it lol. The international community is going to fuck China over. Especially if it turns out the virus was released on purpose by them (not saying that it was), in which case there may even be a war.
    We owe em trillions of dollars/pounds. Corporations with major sway in our governments are desperate to keep the Chinese market as a buyer. Many of our own industries no longer exist. We're fully dependent on China for imports. The trade tariffs didn't even hurt them, they easily went through a loophole and kept selling the USA crap with no tariffs.

    The international community ain't doing shit, at least not for a while. Like climate change, corporate interests will dominate the conversation until things start getting reeeaally bad.

    p;edit w.r.t. the tarrifs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhMAt3BluAU&t=60m40s
    Last edited by yzb25; September 27th, 2020 at 03:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  39. ISO #339

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    No, that isn’t it lol. The international community is going to fuck China over. Especially if it turns out the virus was released on purpose by them (not saying that it was), in which case there may even be a war.
    Hard to prove, easy to contest and to discredit. And probably just not true, too: the most populous country should not launch a virus in the very middle of its own soil. Maybe not 100 % excluded, but I'm pretty sure that won't happen.
    By the way, sorry to bring that guy in the thread again but... Trump is pretty much the only one going full "IT'S CHINA!", and his weight in the international community is uh, debatable when it comes to making people hate China more than they did before.

    China is very strong, both military-wise and economy-wise. Not many people want to actually annoy China. It'd take a really good opportunity to create an united anti-Chinese front for this to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  40. ISO #340

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Hard to prove, easy to contest and to discredit. And probably just not true, too: the most populous country should not launch a virus in the very middle of its own soil. Maybe not 100 % excluded, but I'm pretty sure that won't happen.
    By the way, sorry to bring that guy in the thread again but... Trump is pretty much the only one going full "IT'S CHINA!", and his weight in the international community is uh, debatable when it comes to making people hate China more than they did before.

    China is very strong, both military-wise and economy-wise. Not many people want to actually annoy China. It'd take a really good opportunity to create an united anti-Chinese front for this to happen.
    China tried to cover up Covid. They’re going to pay lol, nobody in the world likes that they did. There’s going to be extra tarrifs imposes in them. Ideally the US should take advantage of this by raising tarrifs just up to he point where china starts complaining.

    Maybe I’m wrong and nobody will take advantage of this situation, though.

  41. ISO #341

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Trump told the Proud Boys to "Stand back and stand by" in the debates today. Not stand down, but stand BY.

    But here on sc2mafia we still wonder why people think the Republican Party is the party of the white supremacists.


    Just in case you don't know who the Proud Boys are
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  42. ISO #342

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Trump told the Proud Boys to "Stand back and stand by" in the debates today. Not stand down, but stand BY.

    But here on sc2mafia we still wonder why people think the Republican Party is the party of the white supremacists.


    Just in case you don't know who the Proud Boys are
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys
    https://mobile.twitter.com/thehill/s...68970876125184
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho

  43. ISO #343

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    No context to chat, no proof of 't-shirt sales'

    and an ironic promotion to something they apparently condemn.

    what is journalism anymore? this honestly looks phony as hell. If anyone has a NYT paywall pass, do share.

    I'm not saying it's not plausible, but the sensationalism around this on twitter is ridiculous lol
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  44. ISO #344

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    What is the actual socialist system being pushed in america? All I hear is people talking about bringing healthcare in line with other countries such as my own
    Socialist System in America: The VA
    The doctors, nurses and staff are paid for by the government to provide a service. This service is provided to all vets free to them but at the cost of the tax payers

    Subsidized Capitalism in America: Government insurance programs
    The doctors, nurses, and staff work for a 'for profit' company and the cost is then spread around through subsidization and insurance costs enabling huge healthcare costs.

    Comparing the American system and arguing it can be improved to be inline with an actual socialist healthcare system while pushing for the terrible practice of subsidized capitalism only benefits the profits of the healthcare industrys profits in many ways. In a word Socialist systems would be sooooo very much better than whats pushed for under the false flag of socialism (even though socialism is given a bad shake imo)

    Specifically- The idea that healthcare costs are being brought in line with other countries via insurance and subsidization is a bullshit comparison when other countries actually have a socialist system and America is advocating for subsidizing capitalism (which enables higher profits for those providing healthcare at the cost of those receiving healthcare)

    Hopefully that makes sense. There is a reason the same pill costs 40$ a pill in the US while you can source the same chemical quantity for 40$ for a thousand if you can track down a country that produces the chemical. Think about the difference like figuring out how to get everyone to pay that 40$ a pill vs figuring out how to source the chemical quantity for what it actually costs to make.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  45. ISO #345

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    what is journalism anymore?
    This is the thing that I push. I feel like there is a reason journalism has fallen into one of the least respected professions in America. Both sides are selling their message instead of providing information but they do love to evoke the respect and ethics that 'should have' come with their purported news.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  46. ISO #346

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Subsidized capitalism? Is this some revisionist theory lol. Googling it returns Crony Capitalism (doesn't apply to Aus health care) and State Capitalism (also doesn't apply to Aus health care). How am I pushing subsidized capitalism? What I said isn't even close to what you gave an example of subsidized capitalism is. Have I read into your post incorrectly or vice versa? What's going on.

  47. ISO #347

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Socialized healthcare is great. It just works. I don't know what this subsidized crap you're talking about is, but it sounds pretty crummy.

    ~3 million of the poorest Australians don't pay any taxation towards being medically covered. We look after our poor.

  48. ISO #348

  49. ISO #349

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    Subsidized capitalism? Is this some revisionist theory lol. Googling it returns Crony Capitalism (doesn't apply to Aus health care) and State Capitalism (also doesn't apply to Aus health care). How am I pushing subsidized capitalism? What I said isn't even close to what you gave an example of subsidized capitalism is. Have I read into your post incorrectly or vice versa? What's going on.
    You're misunderstanding what he's trying to say. He's not trying to say your system is bad. He's trying to say that most of the democrats in the USA aren't actually pushing for some form of socialized healthcare as it exists in Australia or many European countries. He's saying they actually push for a hybrid program where the government foots part of the bill and insurance companies cover the rest (i.e. subsidizing health costs, proposing "medicare for all who want it", increasing eligibility for medicaid etc.). These proposals allow health insurance companies to continue to play a large role and result in a meaningfully different incentive structure. He's using the term "subsidized capitalism" informally to convey that.

    p;edit moved some part to another post
    Last edited by yzb25; September 30th, 2020 at 04:14 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  50. ISO #350

    Re: if you do not do the full version of this political quiz and post the results, you have no balls

    here is an overview of some things in the American system. Helz can correct me if I'm wrong about any of these:

    Medicare - a program that provides healthcare to those aged 65 and older, paid by taxpayer.

    Medicaid - a program that provides healthcare to people sufficiently poor via the taxpayer. (but unlike what you may be thinking, you have to be REALLY poor to be eligible for this, afaik)

    VA - the closest thing to an actual socialist healthcare program in the US - taxpayed healthcare for veterans. Unlike with medicare where the government pays for private hospitals, the government pays the hospital directly.

    Health insurance - As the name implies, you pay a private company a monthly premium to get healthcare when you need it. However, it's more complicated than "Pay X a month, then get help when you're sick". There are also copayments and deductibles. A 20% copayment means you pay 20% of the cost of some treatment, while the insurance company pays the remaining 80%. A deductible is an upfront payment you make when you want treatment to get the insurance company's assistance in footing the bill.

    Obamacare - Under the Obama administration, the affordable care act was passed. It reigned in some of the most exploitative aspects of American health insurance (i.e. being able to refuse coverage to people with pre-existing conditions being among the most famous). They forced everyone outside of the south to get health coverage or pay a fine (again, unless they're super poor), but they also expanded medicaid and subsidized insurance to everyone in the lower-middle class outside of the south.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

 

 

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