That is all.
That is all.
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but thats racist dont u think every life matters????????
No, that's not all. What are you going to do about it? Why didn't you post this 2 weeks ago?
People matter. Be nice everyone.
Honestly, those riots in the US are pretty scary... I don’t like how many politicians from both parties (including the Vice President, and many Mayors/Governors) are essentially telling people that the riots are okay. Mike Pence scolded America for its racism. He didn’t even ADDRESS the protest.
Is there police injustice? Perhaps, though burning down businesses and attacking people in broad daylight is NOT justified. Violence is not a medium of communication. I would only see riots in this scale being justified in case of a genocide or a totalitarian regime taking over, which btw is not the case.
Btw, the Post has kept a database of all police shootings since 2015, and they’ve found that the number of police shootings of unarmed individuals has actually decreased since then. Last year it was around 10 blacks who were killed; in 8 of those cases either the cop was attacked first or it was an accident of some sort. In only 2 of those cases was the cop criminally charged with murder.
In 2015, the story is pretty different: 32 whites, 38 blacks shot.
So this ‘racial injustice’ narrative doesn’t hold up in my estimation.
What I really think is happening is, politicians in the US are playing identity politics and trying to paint several groups - blacks, gays, bisexuals, transsexuals, etc - as somehow being ‘oppressed’ by the white population in the US. Why are they doing that? For me, I honestly love what Tucker Carlson (Fox News) had to say about it: what’s happening right now is class war disguised as race war.
I really don’t like what’s happening in the US, and I find it detestable that BLM activists are telling people to ‘kneel’ and to renounce their white privilege simply because of their skin colour. Really, if you watched TV you’d get the feeling that the civil rights movement didn’t happen. I have a temper problem and I would probably yell at anyone who tried to get me to do that and call them a Marxist-racist scumbag. I’d like to say I’d also punch them hard in the face, which honestly, fuck them. Probably not the appropriate response, but I wouldn’t do it anyways... there’d be a horde of people ready to defend them.
Honestly Iím not pleased about how Trump handled things at first either. If he doesnít get his shit together, im hoping either Ted Cruz or Ben Carson will run for President. Hell, letís resurrect Kennedy and Reagan and have them run for President, too.
Of course thereís more white people in America than black people, that doesnít mean white people are oppressing blacks. FWIW, a black cop was killed; at least five of the victims of these protests, who died at the hands of the rioters btw, were black or at least mixed race.
Okay, maybe Mike Pence is just a dumbass who has no idea what heís talking about (although I strongly disbelieve that). But you canít possibly argue that someone like Nikki Haley (a republican!) is well intentioned. She literally said that the death of George Floyd was painful and a tragedy for her, and that it has be painful and a tragedy for everyone. I literally cannot make this shit up. Itís unbelievable, itís disgraceful. Thankfully, the riots seemed to have calmed down in Washington DC after they deployed the national guard. It seems to be dying down.
FWIW, this guy on YT, who is black btw, largely agrees with my view on the riots:
Peaceful resistance isn't always an option. MLK only pulled it off because he made a point of sending his protesters to the most racist parts of the country where they would get ruthlessly attacked for simply peacefully demonstrating, so that he could get national coverage. He even intentionally featured children in his protests, knowing they would get attacked. Though he's held up as the quintessential example of non-violent resistance, his protests were ironically catered to facilitate violence. And all of this was only possible because the media gave him coverage (when the protesters were attacked).
It would be nice to live in a world where we could get everything done by signing petitions, but the power to bring change through purely peaceful means is a blessing conferred upon very few, if truly anyone at all. Indeed, carrying out change through the state itself constitutes violence. People who are imprisoned for refusing to accept black clients are having violence used against them - if they resist imprisonment, they are physically forced to comply. Taxation is effectively theft, and anyone who opposes taxation in principle may suffer arrest for peacefully refusing to pay. Indeed, the state itself is ultimately a massive institution primarily tasked with carrying out violence in the most ordely and even-handed manner possible to keep society running.
What did push those final changes through were massive riots that occurred in response to his assassination that fucked up a lot of D.C., putting pressure on politicians to work towards those goals.
The thing is, with MLK racism was actually still a problem in America. Do I agrree with everything he said? No, but I think that at least his protest had some merit, I mean, segregation still existed back then. With regards to revolutions throughout history - perhaps I misspoke when I said the regime had to be a totalitarian one. But it would have to be autocratic in some form or fashion, and thereís really no evidence to suggest that this is the case in America. Especially seeing as police killed more people under Obama. And it was in Obamaís interest for police to kill as few black people as possible, so I donít think police killing more people back then had anything to do with him being president. Frankly I donít know if it has something to with Trump being president now, either.
Can you give me an example of when violence was justified in overthrowing a monarchy? The only example I can think of would be the glorious revolution, but thatís debatable; Cromwell was tyrannical. Certainly no the French Revolution. I guess you could see the American Revolution as one, and rightly so; though in that case it was more of a war for independence than a revolution.
Like hear me out here I donít disagree with what you have to say but I think it isnít at all unreasonable to state that this kind of violence isnít warranted. Police brutality isnít as widespread as it is usually claimed, and when it does happen the policemen involved are charged, as was the case here. Should people be allowed to protest peacefully? Yes, and they are being allowed. Iím Washington DC, the National Guard hasnít done much after the violent rioters were subdued. Now thatís the kind of protest I want to see. I donít agree with it, because it really isnít clear that police brutality is as serious as it is usually claimed, but so be it, I donít have to agree with them.
Finally, it really isnít just me here. Many notable people are concerned with the spread of radical ideologies in the West; go against the flow and you get labeled a white nationalist or a far right nutbag.
Do I think itís wrong for people to be concerned about racism? No, you should be concerned about it, but this has gone above and beyond at this point. Why do you think the concept of white guilt exists? Yeah, white people have done some terrible things in the past, but - look at South Africa. They had the Apartheid and were definitely a repressive, racist regime. But now the African National Congress is more or less oppressing the white farmers now... I mean, thereís been plenty of incidents where black politicians there spouted VERY violent rhetoric directed at the white populace (and also cases where white politicians did that; RSA is a very racist country). My point is, the way forward isnít for Ďwhiteí people to be forced to acknowledge some bizarre guilt resulting from their skin colour. It never is. What needs to happen, and the US has done far more towards this goal than most (all?) other countries, is that people need to be treated the same regardless of skin colour. No more of this Ďwhite privilegeí or Ďwhite guiltí bs.
Anyway Iím very concerned when I see the government trying to regulate things that really should
not be regulated. On Twitter you can see videos of children either a) crying about how they hate their families due to their opinion the riot, or for being Trump supporters. It really is not okay. I watched Fox News and there was this pic of a little girl holding a sign that pointed towards her and read Ďwhite privilegeí. It really is not okay. There is a difference between caring about the poor and just hating the rich, and I believe our society has crossed that line. Besides, one argument that Iíve heard against the idea of defunding the police (which is what the rioters are pushing for btw) is that this would result in poorer neighborhoods being subject to violence more than rich neighborhoods- precisely because richer folks can afford their own protection. This is only going to hurt the poor. But many of the political leaders in America either donít care or donít know that. Btw, if Iím not mistaken this is more or less already happening in RSA. Gated communities and homes built like fortresses are not uncommon there. I think thatís exactly where the US is headed if they keep going in their current direction.
People say "hate the rich" yet a lot of these people don't hate the rich. They hate how the system is build for them to have major advantages or how they hoard the money. The rich didn't get rich on their own. They got rich by using or even exploring the poor. It just makes more sense for them to give back more.
The idea I've heard about defunding the police, is related to them spending the money buying military equipment. Or other excessive equipment. The defunding isn't give them less money. It's just gonna be them less money too use on X or y.
Cryptonic made this sig
You rob a bank for 6 million you are in prison for a long time.
You rob everyone of 6 million by avoiding tax and you get a slap on the wrist. At the worst.
Or a pat on the back good job u good business man.
Back in MLK's time too, a lot of people didn't think to seem there was a problem. People are going to look back at today's times and say the same thing we said about then.
Also, to put another spin in this conversation, the media has financial incentive to show news that will keep their base coming back for more news, showing them just enough controversy so that they're not turned off to the platform. And this generates an unfortunate feedback loop. If the news showed "yay liberals and conservatives are working together!!" that'd be boring and people wouldn't tune in. My point is if you're getting your news from just one source, it's going to be twisted.
And what the fuck! I've had to watch some fox news when I was living with my uncle and the logical fallacies they brought up constantly were stupendously large. I'm shocked that people that play mafia here wouldn't have the skillset to pick apart their arguments because of the leaps in logic they're making, setting up straw man, as well as the attacks on the conversational medium (shouting over guest talks). It was sickening to watch.
I don't know how one can uphold the police and say we need them because they protect us from the thugs and violence, when shit like this is happening here. There are clearly thugs in the police force who use excessive violence. I'm not saying get rid of the police, but I am saying people on the right need to at least recognize there's a problem.
and no, that's not the only example I've got.
FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
FM XXI: USA (Escort)
FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)
You should really fact-check yourself rather than blindly believing and parroting whatever your favourite right-wing demagogues feed you. It really weakens your point when you spout shit that could be easily disproven within 10 seconds of googling. You should also do some personal reflection on whether the idea you hold of Marxism taking over or Democrats being evil radicals are grounded in truth when the talking heads that spoon feed you these ideas objectively get so many basic facts wrong.
Black Lives Matter.
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
Why are there foundations for prostate cancer? Don't all cancers matter?
If your house catches on fire, and the firefighters come, would you tell them to spray all the other houses down too because all houses matter?
I think the real problem about the police is institutional. They've shown that they'll always protect the shitty cops to protect their image when they should do the opposite. The mass *union ordered* resignations as support for the two cops who shoved the 75 year old, on top of being horrendous PR, shows that they'll isolate and target those who would speak against the faults of the police instead of encouraging it.
Even if the state is "nice" by our contemporary standards, that does not exempt them from violent resistance. As I said on the other thread, the state's legitimacy stems from a social contract. They have a set of responsibilities including protecting the citizenry and respecting their rights. If they are failing these responsibilities, the social contract cracks. If they fail these responsibilities and cling to power regardless, then the duty of the citizenry to obey also cracks. And, as I tried to convey in the previous post, all serious political change is backed by violence, even if only implicitly. Though doing it officially through purely state mechanisms is "tidier", that isn't always an option. And we shouldn't over-value doing things through purely state violence - violence is still violence.
Anyway, though you seem to think police brutality is much less widespread than I do, does it ultimately matter? Police needlessly kill and/or life-threateningly assault unarmed civillians, and get off scott-free in court, sometimes even if they are filmed doing it. How many times that's happening doesn't change the fact it's happening. The reforms actually proposed by Campaign Zero have little to do with shaming white people or enacting vengeance on police. The majority of their proposals are race neutral policies designed to increase the accountability of the police and integrate them with the community. The ones that aren't race neutral are shit like "pls hire black cops" and "talk to black people" - things you can probably agree are healthy proposals irrespective of the extent of systemic racism. https://www.joincampaignzero.org/#vision
That said though, I recommend you take a more thorough look at the WaPo database you cited in your first post. The project started because the FBI was missing most police shootings - many police departments literally aren't reporting the shootings they're doing. The database finds blacks are massively disproportionately killed by police in shootings, even when we control for just unarmed citizens. There is really no reason to ever shoot an unarmed citizen unless they're built like Arnold Schwarzenegger and are trying to crush your skull with their bare hands. I also don't want to narrow the discourse to only shootings, though they certainly matter. The police in the USA widely use unnecessary force, verbally taunt citizens, and frequently spontaneously assault people who piss them off but pose no actual physical threat.
We can spend all day bickering about statistics. But honestly, the endless footage of police using undue force is probably longer than all of Game of Thrones. It speaks for itself. Again, I'm really not sure how much police brutality is needed to gain this coveted title of "widespread", or whether gaining that title even matters. And obviously a sample bias takes place where footage only showing the worst of the police rises to the top, but it should also be remembered that the vast majority of cases of police brutality are probably not caught on camera. And that police are becoming more cautious in the age of information not to become a news sensation on camera - irrespective of what they do when a camera isn't pointed on them. What is caught on camera is the cases of police so violent and entitled they don't even care that they're being filmed - and they also happen to be getting filmed.
Also mate, though I find many of your views god-awful from where I'm standing on the far-left, I respect that you continue to bravely vouch for your perspective and engage with us about it. I honestly would be much quieter about my perspective on rioting if I was on a site where everyone was like "wtf yzb I can't believe you think rioting can be justified. Do you support terrorists too? You're basically pro-Al Qaeda bro". Though in defense of Al Qae-
i remember getting banned from the MU debaete channel for acting like this... all uwulighthearted and shit
want my opinionion on this stopic?? it's that aruwuguing won't make me change my perspectiowove for this uwumatterowouwu. just reading shit and uwu'ing willdo it for me.uMu!!!
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
What I said is also true though. The word choice in Black Lives Matter has not won the support of the Asian community. This is likely also because some movements mainly for Black equality have lead to the destruction of Asian property.
Black property is also being destroyed. I saw news that a black firefighter who used his life savings to open a bar in Minneapolis had his bar burned down in May.
Property can be replaced. Lives cannot.
Lives, countries and civilizations can be replaced too. We have an expiration date and we're biologically hardwired to produce our own replacements. Of course, we're all totally unique and invaluable (no).
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