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  1. #21

  2. #22

    Re: Black Lives Matter

    Back in MLK's time too, a lot of people didn't think to seem there was a problem. People are going to look back at today's times and say the same thing we said about then.

    Also, to put another spin in this conversation, the media has financial incentive to show news that will keep their base coming back for more news, showing them just enough controversy so that they're not turned off to the platform. And this generates an unfortunate feedback loop. If the news showed "yay liberals and conservatives are working together!!" that'd be boring and people wouldn't tune in. My point is if you're getting your news from just one source, it's going to be twisted.

    And what the fuck! I've had to watch some fox news when I was living with my uncle and the logical fallacies they brought up constantly were stupendously large. I'm shocked that people that play mafia here wouldn't have the skillset to pick apart their arguments because of the leaps in logic they're making, setting up straw man, as well as the attacks on the conversational medium (shouting over guest talks). It was sickening to watch.


    Lastly,

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/da-invest...-shove-old-man

    I don't know how one can uphold the police and say we need them because they protect us from the thugs and violence, when shit like this is happening here. There are clearly thugs in the police force who use excessive violence. I'm not saying get rid of the police, but I am saying people on the right need to at least recognize there's a problem.

    and no, that's not the only example I've got.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  3. #23

    Re: Black Lives Matter

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Being radical left doesnít mean you care about the poor. It just means you hate the rich.
    Anyway Iím very concerned when I see the government trying to regulate things that really should
    not be regulated. On Twitter you can see videos of children either a) crying about how they hate their families due to their opinion the riot, or for being Trump supporters. It really is not okay. I watched Fox News and there was this pic of a little girl holding a sign that pointed towards her and read Ďwhite privilegeí. It really is not okay. There is a difference between caring about the poor and just hating the rich, and I believe our society has crossed that line. Besides, one argument that Iíve heard against the idea of defunding the police (which is what the rioters are pushing for btw) is that this would result in poorer neighborhoods being subject to violence more than rich neighborhoods- precisely because richer folks can afford their own protection. This is only going to hurt the poor. But many of the political leaders in America either donít care or donít know that. Btw, if Iím not mistaken this is more or less already happening in RSA. Gated communities and homes built like fortresses are not uncommon there. I think thatís exactly where the US is headed if they keep going in their current direction.
    You realize the South Africa white genocide bullshit is an actual conspiracy theory that's been made up by proto-fascists trying to fabricate an example of white oppression, right? It's been debunked by many groups, and white South African farmers are at no greater risk of being killed than black farmers, considering white farmers make up a larger proportion of farmers than black farmers. Also, farmers in general are much less likely to be murdered than the general population.

    You should really fact-check yourself rather than blindly believing and parroting whatever your favourite right-wing demagogues feed you. It really weakens your point when you spout shit that could be easily disproven within 10 seconds of googling. You should also do some personal reflection on whether the idea you hold of Marxism taking over or Democrats being evil radicals are grounded in truth when the talking heads that spoon feed you these ideas objectively get so many basic facts wrong.

  4. #24

  5. #25

  6. #26

    Re: Black Lives Matter

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Why canít it just be ĎLives Matter?í
    Why do we say "save the rainforest", shouldn't we save all forests?

    Why are there foundations for prostate cancer? Don't all cancers matter?

    If your house catches on fire, and the firefighters come, would you tell them to spray all the other houses down too because all houses matter?

  7. #27

    Re: Black Lives Matter

    Quote Originally Posted by secondpassing View Post
    People matter. Be nice everyone.
    His only point was virtue signalling. "That is all.", in other words, "I said the thing, my work is done". I think if you have nothing to bring to the table, just don't bother showing up.

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    Are you capable of comprehending that there are more white people than black people in America?
    There are about as many white and black people in American jails and prisons, so considering an about equal number of arrests (in number, not %), the 32/38 ratio actually shows that black people aren't significantly more likely to get shot or killed by the police. There are a bunch of sociopolitical reason why black people commit more crimes and racial profiling also plays a part in it, but the narrative that the police are likelier to kill them in an arrest doesn't check out. That's just a misconception you make from looking through the media's lens.

    I think the real problem about the police is institutional. They've shown that they'll always protect the shitty cops to protect their image when they should do the opposite. The mass *union ordered* resignations as support for the two cops who shoved the 75 year old, on top of being horrendous PR, shows that they'll isolate and target those who would speak against the faults of the police instead of encouraging it.

  8. #28

    Re: Black Lives Matter

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    The thing is, with MLK racism was actually still a problem in America. Do I agrree with everything he said? No, but I think that at least his protest had some merit, I mean, segregation still existed back then. With regards to revolutions throughout history - perhaps I misspoke when I said the regime had to be a totalitarian one. But it would have to be autocratic in some form or fashion, and there’s really no evidence to suggest that this is the case in America. Especially seeing as police killed more people under Obama. And it was in Obama’s interest for police to kill as few black people as possible, so I don’t think police killing more people back then had anything to do with him being president. Frankly I don’t know if it has something to with Trump being president now, either.

    Can you give me an example of when violence was justified in overthrowing a monarchy? The only example I can think of would be the glorious revolution, but that’s debatable; Cromwell was tyrannical. Certainly no the French Revolution. I guess you could see the American Revolution as one, and rightly so; though in that case it was more of a war for independence than a revolution.

    Like hear me out here I don’t disagree with what you have to say but I think it isn’t at all unreasonable to state that this kind of violence isn’t warranted. Police brutality isn’t as widespread as it is usually claimed, and when it does happen the policemen involved are charged, as was the case here. Should people be allowed to protest peacefully? Yes, and they are being allowed. I’m Washington DC, the National Guard hasn’t done much after the violent rioters were subdued. Now that’s the kind of protest I want to see. I don’t agree with it, because it really isn’t clear that police brutality is as serious as it is usually claimed, but so be it, I don’t have to agree with them.

    Finally, it really isn’t just me here. Many notable people are concerned with the spread of radical ideologies in the West; go against the flow and you get labeled a white nationalist or a far right nutbag.
    Do I think it’s wrong for people to be concerned about racism? No, you should be concerned about it, but this has gone above and beyond at this point. Why do you think the concept of white guilt exists? Yeah, white people have done some terrible things in the past, but - look at South Africa. They had the Apartheid and were definitely a repressive, racist regime. But now the African National Congress is more or less oppressing the white farmers now... I mean, there’s been plenty of incidents where black politicians there spouted VERY violent rhetoric directed at the white populace (and also cases where white politicians did that; RSA is a very racist country). My point is, the way forward isn’t for ‘white’ people to be forced to acknowledge some bizarre guilt resulting from their skin colour. It never is. What needs to happen, and the US has done far more towards this goal than most (all?) other countries, is that people need to be treated the same regardless of skin colour. No more of this ‘white privilege’ or ‘white guilt’ bs.
    Violence being used to overthrow a monarchy is always justified. The groups or individuals involved in the overthrow are often deeply flawed themselves (you rightly acknowledge Cromwell as a tyrant) and indulge in gratuitous violence (like the french revolution) but that doesn't really change the fact that monarchies are inherently unjust and, if they do not relinquish their power by their own will, then the only choice left is violent resistance. Not all monarchs were evil. Some were very good people. However, that does not fundamentally change the fact that monarchy is an inherently unjust system. And even if the current monarch is great, the next could be a total psychopath. Hence, violent resistance against even the kindest monarch is still totally justified.

    Even if the state is "nice" by our contemporary standards, that does not exempt them from violent resistance. As I said on the other thread, the state's legitimacy stems from a social contract. They have a set of responsibilities including protecting the citizenry and respecting their rights. If they are failing these responsibilities, the social contract cracks. If they fail these responsibilities and cling to power regardless, then the duty of the citizenry to obey also cracks. And, as I tried to convey in the previous post, all serious political change is backed by violence, even if only implicitly. Though doing it officially through purely state mechanisms is "tidier", that isn't always an option. And we shouldn't over-value doing things through purely state violence - violence is still violence.

    Anyway, though you seem to think police brutality is much less widespread than I do, does it ultimately matter? Police needlessly kill and/or life-threateningly assault unarmed civillians, and get off scott-free in court, sometimes even if they are filmed doing it. How many times that's happening doesn't change the fact it's happening. The reforms actually proposed by Campaign Zero have little to do with shaming white people or enacting vengeance on police. The majority of their proposals are race neutral policies designed to increase the accountability of the police and integrate them with the community. The ones that aren't race neutral are shit like "pls hire black cops" and "talk to black people" - things you can probably agree are healthy proposals irrespective of the extent of systemic racism. https://www.joincampaignzero.org/#vision

    That said though, I recommend you take a more thorough look at the WaPo database you cited in your first post. The project started because the FBI was missing most police shootings - many police departments literally aren't reporting the shootings they're doing. The database finds blacks are massively disproportionately killed by police in shootings, even when we control for just unarmed citizens. There is really no reason to ever shoot an unarmed citizen unless they're built like Arnold Schwarzenegger and are trying to crush your skull with their bare hands. I also don't want to narrow the discourse to only shootings, though they certainly matter. The police in the USA widely use unnecessary force, verbally taunt citizens, and frequently spontaneously assault people who piss them off but pose no actual physical threat.

    We can spend all day bickering about statistics. But honestly, the endless footage of police using undue force is probably longer than all of Game of Thrones. It speaks for itself. Again, I'm really not sure how much police brutality is needed to gain this coveted title of "widespread", or whether gaining that title even matters. And obviously a sample bias takes place where footage only showing the worst of the police rises to the top, but it should also be remembered that the vast majority of cases of police brutality are probably not caught on camera. And that police are becoming more cautious in the age of information not to become a news sensation on camera - irrespective of what they do when a camera isn't pointed on them. What is caught on camera is the cases of police so violent and entitled they don't even care that they're being filmed - and they also happen to be getting filmed.

    Also mate, though I find many of your views god-awful from where I'm standing on the far-left, I respect that you continue to bravely vouch for your perspective and engage with us about it. I honestly would be much quieter about my perspective on rioting if I was on a site where everyone was like "wtf yzb I can't believe you think rioting can be justified. Do you support terrorists too? You're basically pro-Al Qaeda bro". Though in defense of Al Qae-
    Last edited by yzb25; June 6th, 2020 at 09:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  9. #29

  10. #30

  11. #31

    Re: Black Lives Matter

    oh yikes i see the cancer has found this thread
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    President Fielzanks walks up to his stage, preparing his n1 speech. In front of him, his two cronies MM and David stood. In front of him, his immaculately written n1 speech was prepared. 'Gentleman, what is the soul of capitalism?', he asked his small audience. 'Money?', MM guessed. 'Waifus?', David asked. 'No' Fielz replied, disappointed in his trash scumteam .
    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    Naz would never forget the Chik-Fil-A Sauce

  12. #32

    Re: Black Lives Matter

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    Being radical left doesnít mean you care about the poor. It just means you hate the rich.
    Anyway Iím very concerned when I see the government trying to regulate things that really should
    not be regulated. On Twitter you can see videos of children either a) crying about how they hate their families due to their opinion the riot, or for being Trump supporters. It really is not okay. I watched Fox News and there was this pic of a little girl holding a sign that pointed towards her and read Ďwhite privilegeí. It really is not okay. There is a difference between caring about the poor and just hating the rich, and I believe our society has crossed that line. Besides, one argument that Iíve heard against the idea of defunding the police (which is what the rioters are pushing for btw) is that this would result in poorer neighborhoods being subject to violence more than rich neighborhoods- precisely because richer folks can afford their own protection. This is only going to hurt the poor. But many of the political leaders in America either donít care or donít know that. Btw, if Iím not mistaken this is more or less already happening in RSA. Gated communities and homes built like fortresses are not uncommon there. I think thatís exactly where the US is headed if they keep going in their current direction.
    we've gated commuwunities for the rich toOwO

  13. #33

  14. #34

  15. #35

  16. #36

    Re: Black Lives Matter

    Quote Originally Posted by naz View Post
    oh yikes i see the cancer has found this thread
    And yet Iím the sexist one lmao
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    lmao he is the baby in your picture

  17. #37

  18. #38

  19. #39

  20. #40

    Re: Black Lives Matter

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    If you feel the need to respond to "Black Lives Matter" with "Lives Matter" or "All Lives Matter" then you are completely missing the point of "Black Lives Matter".
    Saying Black Lives Matter comes with the cost of alienating support from other minority groups. Well-intentioned, but it sets this racial group apart from Chinese, Koreans, Indians, Malaysians, Columbians, and whatever other groups. We are people, so treat people well.

 

 

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