S-FM 298: Third Line Butterfly

[Revenant]

I literally know this bc I am his godfather

HOW MANY GODFATHERS ARE THERE?

[Varcron]

What? From which perspective is that supposed to be? @Varcron
This kind of reasoning is often wrong, but that sentence looks like a scum slip...

From the perspective of town, if we somehow lynch heartbreaker instantly, we also automatically lose a town member no matter what. That isn't a scum slip, that's me telling you a fact. If we lynch heartbreaker right away, we lose a townie with him/her

[Revenant]

I'm afraid I do not know enough about each of you to tell who this target may have been, after all, I've only witnessed the last game played as of late.

I have this question to ask everyone.

If you were the Heartbreaker, who would you have targeted?

I would target anyone who had doubt of my alignment!

[Revenant]

I know I wasn’t targeted. But I would’ve targeted someone I thought to be good at the game if I were mafia.
that being said, isn’t speculation like this anti-town? The lover/lovee may be outed this way

Anything you do has the risk of being exposed.

[Varcron]

As mafia teammate with @Varcron , I see nothing wrong with that sentence.

Actually, yes I do. That does seem like a good strategy, but @Varcron may be using that to influence how town votes!!! *angerry noises*

Y'all are going more theoretical on this than I typically do, and I don't like it at all.

[Revenant]

All good; at this point I just want to see people post tbh.

Trying to hide in the Shadows?

I’ll be right behind you.

[Varcron]

Trying to hide in the Shadows?

I’ll be right behind you.

Kind of makes sense, I personally rather not flood the chat with hundreds of pages of watery content.

[Varcron]

Kind of makes sense, I personally rather not flood the chat with hundreds of pages of watery content.

Hit enter too soon with this one

It's better to send a few well thought out and well made posts/defenses/retorts than spam

the very last one is pretty good for thunderdoming though.

[Revenant]

Banana Alliance Signup

1 -
2 -
3 -

This gives me purpose!
I’m Joining!

[Revenant]

You!! UwU.

FUCKETH ME IN THE ASS OWO.

No Escorts allowed here!

[Revenant]

YOUR ALL SCUMBAGS!

[Revenant]

Kind of makes sense, I personally rather not flood the chat with hundreds of pages of watery content.

Water? Heh. I’m Flooding it with Blood.

My Content is Good

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@Marshmallow Marshall should I trust you?? OwO.

This is not an action game. This is a deception game. Trust no one.
But yes, you should

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Honestly this is the kind of question a mafia would ask so he can discuss this during the night with his teammates. That kind of information can be used to inform who Heartbreaker ultimately targets. You also talk too much. @Varcron and @deathworlds you're both suspicious in my book.

I'm changing my troll vote on Marshmallow Marshall to @deathworlds .

-vote deathworlds

I have my eye on Deathworlds, but this is a terrible reason to vote him. As has already been said, Heartbreaker acts on N0, so this whole thing is bad. The one reason I see (and have my eye on Deathworlds for) is that he may be trying to look useful with his not so useful "theory" talk about the Heartbreaker.

I'm tempted to give you half a pass for trying and actually committing in a scumread early on, though. Let's say you get a quarter of a pass for the day.

Also, where is your Varcron read coming from? "Trying to influence how town votes" is what literally everyone does, since the point of this game as town is to lynch scum (which goes by convincing town that the scums are scum), or to lynch town as scum (which goes by convincing town that the towns are scum). So uh, are you accusing him of playing the game, or are you purely sheeping me because I said he may have slipped?

I agree with Deathworlds that "I posted 15 times, see you on day 2!" is annoying and anti-town, and I'd add disrespectful for the players who put effort into this. To answer your question, yes, you can (and SHOULD) lynch D1 to create discussion and leads; you might even catch scum. D1 is actually one of the most important parts of this game. @theoneceko

[Marshmallow Marshall]

UGH
Why take up two posts?

Why take up a lot of posts to say... nothing? No suspicions, not even a random vote...

-vote Revenant

Thou shalt contribute efficiently, or thou shalt perish. Thou art not a noob, so do not act like you have no idea of what has to be done. You've showed, at least to me, that you were able to contribute more than minimally as Caustic, so please go beyond what you posted until now.
Roleplay should not go in the way of efficiency or contribution, as the BioMed game showed. Most effective players, and most contributive players roleplayed, and it did not stop the "mrrrpht" guy from winning and shining because of it. Follow his good example, minus the part of being scum! :P

[BananaCucho]

What? From which perspective is that supposed to be? @Varcron
This kind of reasoning is often wrong, but that sentence looks like a scum slip...

I've said it 900 times, I'll say it 901 times. 11/12 times these "slips" are nothing

Maybe I misheard, but @deathworlds is giving impression someone was already targeted by Heartbreaker. This is day 1, right? And Heartbreaker hasn't chosen a target yet?? I DON'T TRST YOU DEATH. > : (

There's a N0

But S-FM Pringles' town game is good.
And how rude lol, you'd deserve a smashed banana picture.

S-FM Pringles was good at being town read, but not at scumhunting. Though, being town read as town is an important skill as well I guess

I haven't gotten over TOO TOWN TO BE TOWN yet, but lets work together again this game hmmm? Be in my Banana alliance along with DW

CORONA
QUARANTINE HIM


/reserve

Boom, you're in 😎

I join OWO. Sign me up uwu.

Hmmmmm. Maybe. Are you gonna break my heart?

Honestly this is the kind of question a mafia would ask so he can discuss this during the night with his teammates. That kind of information can be used to inform who Heartbreaker ultimately targets. You also talk too much. @Varcron and @deathworlds you're both suspicious in my book.

I'm changing my troll vote on Marshmallow Marshall to @deathworlds .

-vote deathworlds

I see the question as NAI. If DW is town, he's driving discussion day 1. Any discussion is better than none

If he's scum that's a really easy "town point" to pocket without doing much - HOWEVER, coupled with the rest of his posts I have an early town lean on him

Oh, guess there is a night zero then. Also, I don't know what else to spend my energy on LOL. Finally, I want to get my 15 minimum post requirement over with ASAP.

I wonder when scum-reading really occurs. I feel like day one is worst time for it since no one's really trying to lynch. Unless we can lynch day 1 (I'm used to playing on the mod, and on day 1 you can't lynch there).

Day 1 reads are almost always wrong, but as long as you dont get stuck in a tunnel thats okay. The more people interact and scum hunt the more we can review after a player or two flip

I'll consider it if I am convinced you are town, and if I don't have an issue with the other members.

Dont worry baby, you know how to read me like a book, I still remember that Age of Ultron game

And this marks my fifteenth post! G'day sirs (and one rare madam if she exists UWU). Turning on radio silence until the next day. I don't even have anything to do at night because I'm a citizen.

PSYCHOANALYZE THIS POST!!! Am I really citizen or just bluffing? uWu.

Not much to psychoanalyze, this feels like a very green/new player town post, so I'll believe you for now. I think I'm good having you in the Banana Alliance

I would target anyone who had doubt of my alignment!

How would you know that N0?

This gives me purpose!
I’m Joining!

lol okay this is getting weird. Usually people wanna burn the Banana Alliance/Town Core to the ground. Now everyone wants in?

I have my eye on Deathworlds,

Can you explain why? I haven't seen anything from DW yet that would cause me to raise an eyebrow. Not to mention he's rusty

I'll sheep my alliance for now though

-vote Revenant

[BananaCucho]

I decided to make a long post instead of a buncha little ones, but boy does that look ugly, mmrmpt

[DS.]

Didn't realize this started. Night zeros are always a lil awkward

[DS.]

Is n0 the first night or is n1 the first night? 🤔

[theoneceko]

I decided to make a long post instead of a buncha little ones, but boy does that look ugly, mmrmpt

Who is mmrmpt?

[DS.]

I literally know this bc I am his godfather

I'm inclined to just vote here honestly

[theoneceko]

Is n0 the first night or is n1 the first night? 🤔

Pretty sure n0 is the first night. Basically n0 is the night before this day (last night), when mafia chose who to heartbreak.

[DS.]

But that's only on the surface level, if we kill the heartbreaker, then a person that they targeted (someone who is town, as it makes no sense to not choose anyone or to choose mafia given the effects) dies.
Is it advantageous to think about who the heartbreaker targeted? Perhaps, because it gives us some insight into the psyche of the players making up the scum team.

Presume that your theory is correct, that the heartbreaker targeted a stronger player. Let's run the assumption that there are three players that one could consider "strong" in this particular setup.
Statistically, at least one of those "stronger" players would be mafia, right? Well it should be the goal of the mafia to eliminate the other strong players so that their strong player can "lead" town to a demise, correct? So why would they waste their heartbreaker on one of the "stronger" players when they would attempt to kill them at night? Well the mafia is also looking to eliminate the TPR's, with maybe the exception of the Oracle.

The mafia knows who's a "Stronger" player and who's not, but they don't know who is a TPR unless the Actress got a lucky hit, but even then, they wouldn't be able to receive the information from the Actress and then use the heartbreaker, because the heartbreaker can only use their ability N0. So it's safer to use the heartbreaker for meta reasons.

It's entirely possible that the mafia targeted one of the "stronger" players, and they plan on killing another "stronger" player this night, if the mafia kills one stronger player, and avoids targeting another, wouldn't that make it obvious that the last stronger player be mafia?

This was a long post that didn't end in a nut. #blueballs

[DS.]

Correct, if we can figure out the target then we have a confirmed non mafia member; whoever acts too scummy on purpose could be heartbreaker, since that role is basically a jester revamped.

Heartbreaker informed or nah?

[DS.]

Banana Alliance Signup

1 -DS
2 -
3 -

^^

[DS.]

I've said it 900 times, I'll say it 901 times. 11/12 times these "slips" are nothing



There's a N0



S-FM Pringles was good at being town read, but not at scumhunting. Though, being town read as town is an important skill as well I guess

I haven't gotten over TOO TOWN TO BE TOWN yet, but lets work together again this game hmmm? Be in my Banana alliance along with DW



Boom, you're in 😎



Hmmmmm. Maybe. Are you gonna break my heart?


I see the question as NAI. If DW is town, he's driving discussion day 1. Any discussion is better than none

If he's scum that's a really easy "town point" to pocket without doing much - HOWEVER, coupled with the rest of his posts I have an early town lean on him





Day 1 reads are almost always wrong, but as long as you dont get stuck in a tunnel thats okay. The more people interact and scum hunt the more we can review after a player or two flip



Dont worry baby, you know how to read me like a book, I still remember that Age of Ultron game



Not much to psychoanalyze, this feels like a very green/new player town post, so I'll believe you for now. I think I'm good having you in the Banana Alliance



How would you know that N0?



lol okay this is getting weird. Usually people wanna burn the Banana Alliance/Town Core to the ground. Now everyone wants in?



Can you explain why? I haven't seen anything from DW yet that would cause me to raise an eyebrow. Not to mention he's rusty

I'll sheep my alliance for now though

-vote Revenant

This is town. Not sure I'm a fan of the vote tho

[DS.]

Idk how to vote on this site

~vote ganelon

[DS.]

~vote ganelon

Just in case that matters


Sleep time bai bai gngn

[DS.]

Heartbreaker informed or nah?

*heartbreaker target

[Ganelon]

Oh, guess there is a night zero then. Also, I don't know what else to spend my energy on LOL. Finally, I want to get my 15 minimum post requirement over with ASAP.

I wonder when scum-reading really occurs. I feel like day one is worst time for it since no one's really trying to lynch. Unless we can lynch day 1 (I'm used to playing on the mod, and on day 1 you can't lynch there).

Yup you can lynch on day one
that being said, you are right that it’s difficult at the start of the game.
would contest the idea that it’s impossible however. As scum, I’m always terrified of d1.

[Ganelon]

I agree ceko seems pretty towny thus far

[Ganelon]

~vote ganelon

Just in case that matters


Sleep time bai bai gngn

No u

[Ganelon]

thus far I think everyone has checked in? It’s looking like they didn’t target anyone whatsoever. That’s bizarre.

[deathworlds]

We're in a slightly different position than most games in either the mod or most other games on the site. We had a n0, in which all actions with the exception of a kill could be made.

The actions undertaken would be for strictly meta-reasons, or perhaps some premeditated gambit by the mafia. We must take this into consideration in regards to who the mafia targeted, what could the mafia know, specifically, who's role do you think the mafia knows?

Also @Banana + @MM, I'm not looking for easy "townie points", it is a goal for everyone to at least appear helpful to the majorities goal of lynching scum, yes? Whether or not I am actually being helpful or that what I'm providing is useful is up to your own discretion

Of course I'm obligated to say that straining yourselves to trying to scumread me or find some sort of "slip" is a waste of precious time and energy that should be spent analyzing someone else. I know I'm town, my alignment should be obvious if you do decide to read me; I've been nothing but be honest, in a game where scum are forced to lie to win.

~vote ganelon

Just in case that matters


Sleep time bai bai gngn

You'll want to use the code [vote][INSERT PLAYER NAME HERE][\vote] with an "/" instead of an "\"

[deathworlds]

thus far I think everyone has checked in? It’s looking like they didn’t target anyone whatsoever. That’s bizarre.

We're still waiting for @Light_Yagami

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I've said it 900 times, I'll say it 901 times. 11/12 times these "slips" are nothing

There's a N0

S-FM Pringles was good at being town read, but not at scumhunting. Though, being town read as town is an important skill as well I guess
I haven't gotten over TOO TOWN TO BE TOWN yet, but lets work together again this game hmmm? Be in my Banana alliance along with DW

Boom, you're in ��

Hmmmmm. Maybe. Are you gonna break my heart?

I see the question as NAI. If DW is town, he's driving discussion day 1. Any discussion is better than none
If he's scum that's a really easy "town point" to pocket without doing much - HOWEVER, coupled with the rest of his posts I have an early town lean on him

Day 1 reads are almost always wrong, but as long as you dont get stuck in a tunnel thats okay. The more people interact and scum hunt the more we can review after a player or two flip

Dont worry baby, you know how to read me like a book, I still remember that Age of Ultron game

Not much to psychoanalyze, this feels like a very green/new player town post, so I'll believe you for now. I think I'm good having you in the Banana Alliance

How would you know that N0?

lol okay this is getting weird. Usually people wanna burn the Banana Alliance/Town Core to the ground. Now everyone wants in?

Can you explain why? I haven't seen anything from DW yet that would cause me to raise an eyebrow. Not to mention he's rusty

I'll sheep my alliance for now though

-vote Revenant

Indeed, most of the time, supposed slips are not really slips, but if it's not a slip, it's an unclear post that needs to be clarified, and that generates actually meaningful, AI discussion, unlike the previous heartbreaker stuff (ik I'm repeating myself but still true).

Useless discussion may be a tiny bit better than no discussion at all, but RVS-induced discussion is 100 % better than useless discussion, and the useless discussion happens to be cutting out the RVS-induced one.
As you said yourself, it's an easy way to get townpoints; I'll add that it's an easy way to get them without actually helping town (and one could argue that not helping town and wasting its time is hurting town). That being said, it's not THAT bad, since he actually reacted to other posts, notably Mag's and Ceko's. By the way, I tend to call Ganelon "Mag" because it's his old name, so don't get confused if I accidentally drop that name.

D1 scumreads are usually wrong. D1 towncores are usually strong if well done. Not really talking about your "apply to the 'towncore'" thing, though.

About Deathworlds, what makes me have an eye on him is the big useless heartbreaker talk, which has been my mantra this game lol. I've already explained why it was bad.

I decided to make a long post instead of a buncha little ones, but boy does that look ugly, mmrmpt

It's beautiful to look at, just less free-flowing to make.

[deathworlds]

About Deathworlds, what makes me have an eye on him is the big useless heartbreaker talk, which has been my mantra this game lol. I've already explained why it was bad.

Now it's certainly not useless, all most posts have things of value to be deduced from them. To be blunt I was trying to get a feel for some of the faces I haven't seen before. Obviously if they were heartbreakers or mafia they wouldn't put me at the top of the list to be the lover when discussing it in day chat because I know that I'm not the lover. It gives me information about the relationship between players, which is useful in trying to deduce what actions the mafia took last night, considering they should have been almost entirely meta driven.

[deathworlds]

If one can put themselves in the shoes of scum, rather specific slots they believe to be scum, one can try to deduce who they might target. If we learn who they targeted (from roles that give feedback, such as the heartbreaker), then we simply connect the dots between who we suspect might of targeted whom, and who the actual target was.
It's really the same as night kill analysis, with the exception that we don't necessarily get a flip, although the person claiming to be a lover is almost confirmed town, or an idiot scum with a death wish. So we'll get a flip out of it regardless

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Fair points, I guess it's a good way to gauge the site's and the players' metas. I still think it lacked the RVS part, and that those were not mutually exclusive, though. Rvs also helps gauging people, but most importantly, it allows some AI discussion to be generated.
@BananaCucho generated some with his big posts and his "town alliance", so he's my highest townread atm, although that kind of townread is very volatile at this point of the game because it all depends on what he does with his alliance, and the read is therefore likely to change later. Ceko is somewhat lower in my townreads but my read on him is less volatile, he feels like a new town player, and his reaction to D1 is typical from that style.
@Ganelon lacks content atm, so my eye now goes closer to him and farther from @deathworlds , who enters the null zone. Also still waiting on Varcron's reply.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

From the perspective of town, if we somehow lynch heartbreaker instantly, we also automatically lose a town member no matter what. That isn't a scum slip, that's me telling you a fact. If we lynch heartbreaker right away, we lose a townie with him/her

Oh sorry, I had missed this, not waiting on your reply anymore lol.

You said that, and I'm quoting you, "it would be a strategically bad play to push for mislynches on anyone this game"... How does that relate to heartbreaker? Also, are you saying that we should fear lynching the Heartbreaker because it kills a townie? Lynching scum is good no matter what, it's just a bit less good in the event Heartbreaker actually loved someone.

[Ganelon]

I believe there may be a second side to dws question wrt the lover. It involves the hypothetical scenario where the lover was roleblocked in which case he might be trying to fish the nurse out. Feel free to debate this potentially worthless idea

[Ganelon]

I just realized something. The loved target actually gets told who fell in love with them, right? @Frinckles
might not be such a bad idea not to fall in love after all in that case.

[Ganelon]

I just don’t think I’d trade a mafia player for a town as Mafia.

[Ganelon]

Btw. Has anyone played a setup like this one before, or a setup where a Mafioso can choose to basicallly out himself to kill a townie?

Has that ever happened, and it so, under what circumstances?

[Ganelon]

I’m thinking it’s way too simple a conclusion - I would 100% never use my heartbreak ability in this setup unless a potentially extremely dangerous player were in the game (e.g Distorted); even then I’d first weigh the benefits. Distorted would basically become unlynchable. Yeah, that’s a nightmare if you’re scum.

i guess I see what DW was saying about loving a strong player now

[Ganelon]

I guess there’s also the idea that you could use the lover as a sort of insurance to make sure a player never gets lynched.

[Ganelon]

I think there is some merit to powerwolfing with a Heartbreaker

[Ganelon]

Fair points, I guess it's a good way to gauge the site's and the players' metas. I still think it lacked the RVS part, and that those were not mutually exclusive, though. Rvs also helps gauging people, but most importantly, it allows some AI discussion to be generated.
@BananaCucho generated some with his big posts and his "town alliance", so he's my highest townread atm, although that kind of townread is very volatile at this point of the game because it all depends on what he does with his alliance, and the read is therefore likely to change later. Ceko is somewhat lower in my townreads but my read on him is less volatile, he feels like a new town player, and his reaction to D1 is typical from that style.
@Ganelon lacks content atm, so my eye now goes closer to him and farther from @deathworlds, who enters the null zone. Also still waiting on Varcron's reply.

No uuuuuu
in all seriousness it just takes time for something retesting to show up. I’m going to discuss game mechanics for now until I see something truly interesting emerge (wrt scum slips)

[Ganelon]

Interesting*
forgive my shitty spelling.
I’m on my phone.

[Ganelon]

BTW, we will have to seriously consider the possibly of a mass role claim fairly early on into the game. The mafia have a basically perfect investigator role.