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Thread: Host-ban list

  1. #1

    Host-ban list

    Many players do not outright troll, but they will force the other members of their lobby to play a troll save, when given the chance.

    I'm not talking about cult saves or slightly questionable saves.

    I'm talking about the people who force lobbies to play 14 SK 1 citizen saves, game after game. The kinds of saves that result in a lobby remake by default, before the game even starts. Obviously nobody will play the save, so it just wasted 14 people's time by having to remake.

    I am proposing that a list be introduced which prohibits players from being able to host (set up the game) if they are placed on it. Host-ban list (ie, banned from hosting).

  2. #2

  3. #3

    Re: Host-ban list

    You are exaggerating a bit though. I don't think I've ever seen someone actually manage to start a 14 SK vs something else save.

    There are those that like to host saves that aren't the traditional 8331, 933, or cult setups. However, at the end of the day, the -repick feature is there for a reason. If people don't pay attention and -repick then it is their own fault for allowing an odd setup to start.

    However, with Frinckles' mafia 2.0 update, the standard setups will be updated, so that instead of SOTD which everyone hates, there will be normal 933 and 8331 saves in those slots. It will therefore be a lot more noticable if a host chooses to use his own save rather than the standard 8331 or 933, which should make it more obvious when to repick if you don't want unusual setups.

    Writing this, I did have the idea that if the 8331 and 933 setups Frinckles puts out in his upcoming update are generally approved by the community, we could decrease the amount of votes required to repick WHEN THE HOST CHOOSES HIS OWN SETUP. Curious what others think about this topic.
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  4. #4

    Re: Host-ban list

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    However, with Frinckles' mafia 2.0 update, the standard setups will be updated, so that instead of SOTD which everyone hates, there will be normal 933 and 8331 saves in those slots.
    Why no default cult saves? My 942 cult is most popular cult setup at the moment btw, it can be 3rd one!

  5. #5

  6. #6

  7. #7

    Re: Host-ban list

    This lever wouldnt be too hard to implement but I really dont think the reports guys want to be policing what is an acceptable setup and what isnt. Thats why the game is modular.

    If it still happens a lot after 2.0 we'll revisit it, but we're hoping like about that -default will become more appealing to people with the default variants that'll replacing the top two.
    Photobucket in 2017
    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    if you have elixir to contend with gl hf

  8. #8

    Re: Host-ban list

    @Frinckles

    I would like to draw attention to this idea again for additional consideration. I'll give an example.

    Lately there has been a player going around hosting a save that appears normal, but in fact it is a troll save in disguise. The triad are unable to kill due to the configuration, and you can only discover this once the game is started.

    "b-b-but triad won one time last week! It's fair!"

    Idgaf. This is a troll setup and the players would not have agreed to it if they had known. 9/10 times the triad just quit when they realize the position they are in, and the game is functionally ruined. That is the point here. People don't want this save.

    Some players (triad) are inevitably destined to have a very negative experience with this setup. Is this really the kind of game experience we want for our community?

    So, to bring it back to the original topic, I believe that players who knowingly and repeatedly host these types of saves must be banned from hosting.

  9. #9

    Re: Host-ban list

    To address disguised troll saves, you could have the box that shows what the random slots can be (like you would see when hovering over rolelist in game) somewhere in the black space that is plentiful in the save select screen. Maybe even the mini rolecard icons (normally top of screen ingame) could fit in and change accordingly with the save.

    As well as alerts when shit is broken (ex: sheriff cant detect anything, triad cant kill, etc.)
    https://imgur.com/a/NqMwElZ fuck it heres all the sc2mafia pics i would have put in the sig

  10. #10

    Re: Host-ban list

    Quote Originally Posted by Grakylan View Post
    To address disguised troll saves, you could have the box that shows what the random slots can be (like you would see when hovering over rolelist in game) somewhere in the black space that is plentiful in the save select screen. Maybe even the mini rolecard icons (normally top of screen ingame) could fit in and change accordingly with the save.

    As well as alerts when shit is broken (ex: sheriff cant detect anything, triad cant kill, etc.)
    i think 1 limitation is all of that stuff gets calculated only after the save is set - calculating it in real time as the host makes changes would be difficult to do and probably lag the shit out of the game. I believe some of those calculations are occurring during that slow transition before the start of day 1.

    But i do have an idea on that which seems feasible. When the host clicks start, all the settings should be calculated. The setup screen can be replaced with the settings screen that you currently get after the game has started. If people repick, then it essentially resets back to the save setup screen.

    This way, frinckles doesn't have to add new graphical elements, and can just reuse the stuff that already exists
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  11. #11

    Re: Host-ban list

    Also, i'd suggest that we rework -repick. I think a pop-up voting system with buttons like "repick, don't care, don't repick", where each choice gives +1, 0, or -1 votes to repicking might be better than the current system. And then if the number at the end is at least half of all who voted, then the save is repicked?
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  12. #12

    Re: Host-ban list

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    To enforce this new feature we would require people to submit replays of these people constantly initiating these brave setups. I'm not sure if it will be effective enough to warrant doing it. Interesting idea
    I don't think submitting more than one replay is necessary. A troll save ruins the game for others just like gamethrowing does. If a host admits his save is troll but also thinks it's funny/doesn't give a shit, then that's all the evidence you really need to host-ban.

  13. #13

    Re: Host-ban list

    I'm not going to put someone on a host-ban list for throwing up a troll save once lol.

    And what is a troll save? Is it a save that is different to 933 in a minor way, is it a save that doesn't resemble anything like 933 but is more or less functional, is it the 14 arsonists 1 veteran save, or is it all of the above?

  14. #14

    Re: Host-ban list

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    You are exaggerating a bit though. I don't think I've ever seen someone actually manage to start a 14 SK vs something else save.
    I played a 6 any random save pretty recently. Yes, saves like this are pretty "rare," but not when you compare it to the amount of gamethrowing you see. Obviously, with every other punishment, you need to consider other factors, like how new the player is and if he's intentionally hosting this save to troll.

    I also played a save a few times that appeared normal, but had an 80% cit chance. I'm quite certain the host was trolling since nobody wants citizen as a role and you'd need to manually set the "Citizen" slider to like 10 for this to happen in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    There are those that like to host saves that aren't the traditional 8331, 933, or cult setups. However, at the end of the day, the -repick feature is there for a reason. If people don't pay attention and -repick then it is their own fault for allowing an odd setup to start.
    I understand what you're saying, but this game doesn't reward active participation or serious play. I see heart-attacks and leavers almost every game. There are players who clearly know better that don't give a legitimate defense on trial, don't leave a lw, or lynch someone just for the fun of it. Since the mod is generally too fast-paced and short for people to scum-read based on how others talk, we tend to just follow leads (for example, "I'm sheriff and 9 is triad" or "I jailed 6 last night and there were no kills"). I've seen players in every faction win without doing anything the entire game, and this happens too often because games are usually too short to analyze who's speaking while checking role lists, who pm's the mayor/marshall, and vote patterns---not to mention that a quiet person isn't necessarily evil in the first place. I hate longer games too, but I just wanted to point that out.

  15. #15

    Re: Host-ban list

    At the same time, playing with trolls can be hilarious. People come up with the craziest shit. The mod is more casual than forum anyway.

    I swear if I just spam AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA every game I'll basically have the same win percentage with the amount of fuckery that goes on, LOL.

  16. #16

    Re: Host-ban list

    I'm very happy to see that my comment has spurred some constructive discussion on this topic. I think any of the ideas mentioned so far would be excellent additions to the game. They are all very good ideas. @Frinckles

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    I'm not going to put someone on a host-ban list for throwing up a troll save once lol.

    And what is a troll save? Is it a save that is different to 933 in a minor way, is it a save that doesn't resemble anything like 933 but is more or less functional, is it the 14 arsonists 1 veteran save, or is it all of the above?
    A troll save, as I have already explained, is a troll with blatantly invalid options leading to zero functional chance of winning for certain roles. These are options/settings where if someone gets a specific role, they are damned as far as winning goes. The game is effectively ruined for this person in their role before it even started. These types of setups do not build a positive game experience for our community.

    For example:
    Triad/mafia that can't kill.
    Sheriffs that can't detect anything useful to the setup (sheriff that can only detect triad in a cult save, for example).
    Confirmed citizens in the save (especially when they are the only town gov - this is a double whammy for the town)

    Notice that the list does not include unusual saves. Unusual saves can be fun. Saves where someone is guaranteed to be useless or have zero functional chance of winning are not.

    In these setups I've listed, someone is bound to have a very negative game experience. These situations can be prevented by punishing troll hosts, or implementing new features/verification/repicks to make sure the game doesn't start under those circumstances. I think all of the suggestions brought up so far are very good for helping solve this.

  17. #17

  18. #18

    Re: Host-ban list

    whats the definition of a troll save? we don't punish people for playing poorly - are we going to start punishing them for hosting shit setups? maybe they genuinely think their setups are good
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    lmao he is the baby in your picture

  19. #19

    Re: Host-ban list

    I had a really unusual clue setup back when I played sc2, some people took it seriously and played it to the best of their ability - others didn't. would that make me a troll host? my save was really, really different from the usual 9/3/3

    btw triad couldn't kill (they had one nightkill in the form of a disguiser/kidnapper)
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    lmao he is the baby in your picture

  20. #20

    Re: Host-ban list

    I agree with aamirus that a rework of the repack system seems like the best solution. you get the best of both worlds that way, though at the same time it may discourage experimentation.
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    lmao he is the baby in your picture

 

 

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