[Approved Experimental] S-FM Dueling Smiths (13P)
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  1. #1

    S-FM Dueling Smiths (13P)

    S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Mafia Hidden
    Mafia Hidden
    Mafia Hidden

    Town Hidden
    Town Hidden
    Town Hidden
    Town Hidden
    Town Hidden
    Town Hidden
    Town Hidden
    Town Hidden
    Town Hidden

    Arms Dealer

    Roles

    Town
    Spoiler : Town :
    Citizen
    You are fantastic!

    Gunsmith
    At night, you may gift a player of your choice a Gun.
    You may not target yourself.

    Armoursmith
    At night, you may gift a player of your choice a Vest.
    You may not target yourself.

    Auditor
    At night, you may target a player, and receive a full list of when and what items they have received.

    Confiscator
    At night, you may target a player, and remove all items in their possession from play.
    The player you target is informed.

    Detective
    At night, you may target a player, and either watch who they visit or watch who visits the player you targeted.

    Authenticater
    During the day, you may check one item in your posession, and find out if it is Real/Fake/Rigged

    Disabler
    At night you may target a player, if they try to use an item that night, that item fails.

    Tracker
    At night, you may target a player, you will discover which role their last item or items has come from.

    Shaman
    At night, you may activate your ability, which will cause all guns that night to fail. This ability is one use.

    Multitasker
    You may use up to two items at night.

    Mafia
    Spoiler : Mafia :
    Blacksmith
    At night, you may gift a player of your choice a Gun or a Vest.

    Counterfeiter
    At night, you may gift a player of your choice a fake Gun, or a fake Vest.
    The fake items appear as real ones to the owner.

    Thief
    At night, you may target a player, you will receive all of their items.
    The player you target is informed.

    Graverobber
    At night, you may target a dead player, you will receive all of their items.

    Agent
    At night, you may target a player, finding out who they visit and who visited them.

    Blackmailer
    At night, you may target a player, if that player can create items, they are then blackmailed to make an item for you.
    The player is not informed.

    Disabler
    At night you may target a player, if they try to use an item that night, that item fails.

    Multitasker
    You may use up to two items at night.

    Mafioso
    You have no special abilities.

    Rigger
    At night, you may rig a players last recieved item.
    Any attempt to use a rigged item will result in the item failing and the players death.
    The rigged items appear as real ones to the owner.

    Arms Dealer
    Spoiler : Arms Dealer :
    Arms Dealer
    At night, you may gift a player of your choice a Gun.
    Your goal is to have your guns kill at-least one player on each side.
    You may not gift yourself.
    When you win, you leave the game.


    Special Mechanics

    • At the 24 hour mark of each day - a Duel will happen.
    • 2 hours before the Duel, challenge phase starts.
    • Everyone can challenge everyone during the challenge phase, and everyone can accept or decline any challenge.
    • Each player can only be part of 1 "duel pair" at a time.
    • Which "duel pair" will actually duel will be determined by votes. Whichever pair has more votes combined between them.
    • Duels are done in a separate Forum Thread. It's a set of 5 questions - who answers them first. (polish your F5 keys, and don't come on a mobiles)
    • Winner of Duel will choose between either killing the one they beat in the duel, or receiving a random item for themselves.


    Special Mechanics 2

    • Using an item forfeits any other night action.
    • You may pass one item per night to another player, this DOES NOT forfeit any other night action.
    • Mafia have a factional blacksmith ability, allowing a member to gift a gun/armour/vest in exchange for their night action, may gift self.
    • If player has multiples of same item type received at different times - they can choose which one to use.

    Mechanics
    -Plurality+Majority Lynch (after the dueling event)
    -Days last 72 hours. Nights last 24 hours.
    -Last Wills are allowed.
    -Death Notes are not allowed.
    -The mafia have a night chat.
    -No Suicides.

    Possible Items
    Spoiler : Items :
    Gun
    Kill someone at night.
    Item has 1-time use only.

    Vest
    Protect yourself at night.
    Item has 1-time use only.
    First Aid Kit
    Protect someone else at night.
    Item has 1-time use only.
    Binoculars
    Follow someone at night. Find out whom they visited.
    Item has 1-time use only.
    Condoms
    Roleblock someone during the night.
    Item has 1-time use only.
    Possible Feedback
    -You got lynched.
    -You got killed.
    -You have received [item]!
    -All your items have been taken!
    -Your target was visited by [Player x, Player y.]
    -Your target visited [Player x]
    -You have completed your audit and the results are as followed:
    Night [x] Item [y]
    -Your targets last item/items where received from [Role x], [Role y]
    -You have checked out [Item x] and your conclusion is that it is Real/Fake/Rigged
    -You got Roleblocked.
    -Your got targeted by a Disabler.
    (healing has no feedback)

    Win Conditions
    Town: Have 1 Town alive and eliminate all Mafia.
    Mafia: Have 1 Mafia alive and eliminate all Town.
    Arms Dealer: Have your guns kill at-least one Mafia and one Town. When you win, you leave the game.

    Order of Operations
    0.Roleblock
    1.All Gun/Vest gifts.
    2.Rigging
    3.Auditor
    4.Graverobber
    5.Disabler/Disabler
    6.Shaman
    7.Armour/Vest activated
    8.All Gun/Rigged kills
    9.Healing
    10.Confiscator
    11.Thief
    12.Detective/Agent/Tracker

    Rules of Conduct
    1. Forum Mafia Rules
    2. To ask the Host a question, you must highlight the question in green, and mention the host.
    3. Directly quoting any feedback or PM by the host is forbidden.
    4. Stay active! (Host is the judge of that)
    Last edited by OzyWho; January 11th, 2020 at 04:13 AM.

  2. #2

  3. #3

  4. #4

    Re: S-FM Nominations

    Review in progress.


    Are there lynches on every day?

    Which kind of questions are asked in the Duels?

    In order to win a Duel, do you have to answer correctly to 3 or more questions, or am I getting it wrong?

    Since the questions seem to be at precise times of the day, doesn't that setup require both the host and the players to be permanently ready to come in the thread and answer questions?

    Is majority in effect, along with the plurality lynch?


    Suggested rewritten Goon card:
    Mafia Goon
    You are a member of the Mafia.
    You may vote during the day.
    All Mafia members share a permanent chat.
    Mafia can kill a player each night. The one who last submitted the kill target will carry it out.
    On even-numbered days, during the first 24 hours, all Mafia members nominate three players to be eligible for the lynch that day. If no nominations are given, the nominations will be randomized.
    If you win a prize item from a Duel, you may use it according to its description.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  5. #5

    Re: S-FM Nominations

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Review in progress.


    Are there lynches on every day?

    Which kind of questions are asked in the Duels?

    In order to win a Duel, do you have to answer correctly to 3 or more questions, or am I getting it wrong?

    Since the questions seem to be at precise times of the day, doesn't that setup require both the host and the players to be permanently ready to come in the thread and answer questions?

    Is majority in effect, along with the plurality lynch?


    Suggested rewritten Goon card:
    Mafia Goon
    You are a member of the Mafia.
    You may vote during the day.
    All Mafia members share a permanent chat.
    Mafia can kill a player each night. The one who last submitted the kill target will carry it out.
    On even-numbered days, during the first 24 hours, all Mafia members nominate three players to be eligible for the lynch that day. If no nominations are given, the nominations will be randomized.
    If you win a prize item from a Duel, you may use it according to its description.
    -Lynches are every day. Plurality lynch only.

    -Questions are either questions that basically everyone can answer (common knowledge), or multiple choice questions, or questions that most have to google. I was thinking to perhaps let dead players make questions.

    -Yes, answering 3 questions first would guarantee you a win. Essentially it's whoever answers first gets a point, 5 questions. Might end the duel preemptively if someone won after first 3 questions. Might prolong in the unlikely event of a tie (if for example a question didnt get answered correct at all by anyone and its 2-2). Might cancel it all together if neither is there. Will adapt to the situation.
    By the way, can spam answers for all I care. But only 1 answer per post. What matters is who gets the right answer first.

    -Yes, duelists have to be present, and so does the host. If you want to see an example, check out those jousting events. Can also only 1 be online or 0. But there is a special rule in place to make it unlikely to happen (the 2 hour rule).

    -From memory, I actually don't see whats different in your suggested Mafia Goon card. So I will just copy paste it.

  6. #6

  7. #7

    Re: S-FM Nominations

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    -Lynches are every day. Plurality lynch only.

    -Questions are either questions that basically everyone can answer (common knowledge), or multiple choice questions, or questions that most have to google. I was thinking to perhaps let dead players make questions.

    -Yes, answering 3 questions first would guarantee you a win. Essentially it's whoever answers first gets a point, 5 questions. Might end the duel preemptively if someone won after first 3 questions. Might prolong in the unlikely event of a tie (if for example a question didnt get answered correct at all by anyone and its 2-2). Might cancel it all together if neither is there. Will adapt to the situation.
    By the way, can spam answers for all I care. But only 1 answer per post. What matters is who gets the right answer first.

    -Yes, duelists have to be present, and so does the host. If you want to see an example, check out those jousting events. Can also only 1 be online or 0. But there is a special rule in place to make it unlikely to happen (the 2 hour rule).

    -From memory, I actually don't see whats different in your suggested Mafia Goon card. So I will just copy paste it.
    Ok for lynches.

    Letting dead players make questions sounds fun. The host would have to approve them first, though, just to avoid too easy, too hard, or other unfun questions. This would have to be explicited in the setup. I really like the idea, though.

    Ok about the way duels work; however, remember that it's not a mash. Mashes can have people dying for literally random and stupid reasons, and that contributes to their fun-funny side. On the other hand, smaller setups cannot reasonably see people die because they had a real life commitment at the time of a Duel (even though the 2 hour rule does help, it obviously won't prevent all cases). This setup will be marked as experimental when and if it is approved for that reason. The host will have to deal with the Duel mechanic and the circumstances around each Duel with great judgement for the most enjoyable game possible.

    The Mafia Goon rolecard I suggested was simply a rewritten card with no content changes. You said that you didn't like the one you had typed out, so I made one


    Lynching eligibility seems a bit strong for the Mafia, by the way... I suggest to replace a Citizen with a Town role who also nominates someone for lynch, to avoid giving the possibility to force a mislynch to the Mafia.

    The new way of duelling seems good.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  8. #8

    Re: S-FM Nominations

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Lynching eligibility seems a bit strong for the Mafia, by the way... I suggest to replace a Citizen with a Town role who also nominates someone for lynch, to avoid giving the possibility to force a mislynch to the Mafia.
    How strongly do you feel about this?
    Nomination Mafia 11 player setup's history has 3 games and all were Town wins.
    Here I would think Town is even stronger because of the high probability they will get a item. Sure, the one with the item might get targeted at night, but imagine someone saying "yo guys, I got a gun, whom should I kill?" and suddenly everyone is forced to participate in that discussion. (though if town has bad teamplay that could turn out more trouble than benefit, as with everything)

    I guess I want to say that, statistically the standard nominations setup is town favored and here it's even more.

    If you feel strongly about it I will replace a citizen. As you said, it's experimental.

  9. #9

    Re: S-FM Nominations

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    How strongly do you feel about this?
    Nomination Mafia 11 player setup's history has 3 games and all were Town wins.
    Here I would think Town is even stronger because of the high probability they will get a item. Sure, the one with the item might get targeted at night, but imagine someone saying "yo guys, I got a gun, whom should I kill?" and suddenly everyone is forced to participate in that discussion. (though if town has bad teamplay that could turn out more trouble than benefit, as with everything)

    I guess I want to say that, statistically the standard nominations setup is town favored and here it's even more.

    If you feel strongly about it I will replace a citizen. As you said, it's experimental.
    Hmm. I still think my point is valid, but I would understand, seeing the statistics, if you would want to leave it unchanged.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  10. #10

    Re: S-FM Nominations

    @Marshmallow Marshall
    I checked out the 3 games. Was surprised to see all 3 went to either day7 or day6.
    I'm so smart, I didn't even notice they don't have night kills.

    If I remove the night kill in this setup then basically all the items become overpowered.

    This is getting complicated.

    I want this setup to become a WIP. Please add my Talk setup to the queue list.
    If it's not too much to ask. Could you also change that setups name to "Lovers Talk"? More fitting in my opinion. Sorry for all the trouble.
    Last edited by OzyWho; December 11th, 2019 at 03:39 AM.

  11. #11

    Re: S-FM Nominations

    I was going to check the games today to see how in the world that could have happened, but you did it for me haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    @Marshmallow Marshall
    I checked out the 3 games. Was surprised to see all 3 went to either day7 or day6.
    I'm so smart, I didn't even notice they don't have night kills.

    If I remove the night kill in this setup then basically all the items become overpowered.

    This is getting complicated.

    I want this setup to become a WIP. Please add my Talk setup to the queue list.
    If it's not too much to ask. Could you also change that setups name to "Lovers Talk"? More fitting in my opinion. Sorry for all the trouble.
    Thoughts about adding the Town Nominator (or whatever name you see fit), and adding a new Citizen slot (which would make it a 12P)?

    Do you still want to carry on with the review here?

    I'll do the name change, and add your Lovers Talk setup to the Queue.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  12. #12

  13. #13

    Re: S-FM Nominations

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    No, there's many different directions this setup could go and I don't know yet which way I want to go.

    I predict maybe weeks before will be ready for the next review.
    Alright, hit me up when you want me to review it again.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  14. #14

    Re: S-FM Nominations

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    No, there's many different directions this setup could go and I don't know yet which way I want to go.

    I predict maybe weeks before will be ready for the next review.
    @Marshmallow Marshall
    "maybe weeks" turned out into "probably tomorrow" just fyi.
    I chose to remove the lynch nomination mechanic and replace it with Duels every day.

    Your idea was certainly just as viable. But I'm thinking that, probably, a game with just 2-3 lynch nominations has not the same effect as a game with 6-7. So I'm thinking instead of doing 2 things half-arsed, just go with 1 thing all out.
    At the very least it's simpler for both - host and players if nothing else.

    I will make changes probably tommorow. I just have to figure out what roles I want to go with the daily-Duels.
    All Vanilla? Simple Mafia? Semi-Closed setup?
    What do your instincts say?

  15. #15

    Re: S-FM Nominations

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    @Marshmallow Marshall
    "maybe weeks" turned out into "probably tomorrow" just fyi.
    I chose to remove the lynch nomination mechanic and replace it with Duels every day.

    Your idea was certainly just as viable. But I'm thinking that, probably, a game with just 2-3 lynch nominations has not the same effect as a game with 6-7. So I'm thinking instead of doing 2 things half-arsed, just go with 1 thing all out.
    At the very least it's simpler for both - host and players if nothing else.

    I will make changes probably tommorow. I just have to figure out what roles I want to go with the daily-Duels.
    All Vanilla? Simple Mafia? Semi-Closed setup?
    What do your instincts say?
    Alright, keeping an eye on this. I agree with your move, the setup will be simpler and probably funner like this.

    Why not a setup similar to S-FM The Smith's? Duels would fit very well in a setup based on smiths and items.
    Last edited by Marshmallow Marshall; December 11th, 2019 at 02:21 PM.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  16. #16

  17. #17

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    @Marshmallow Marshall
    Ready for Review. Here is the list of changes I made + things I have questions about (lol, sry):

    • Copy pasted Role list from the Smiths setup
    • Copy pasted Dueling Special Mechanics, but changed them to happen every day. Removed Special Lynch Mechanics.
    • Copy pasted Mechanics from my previous version of this setup +added by copy pasting from Smiths setup:
      • Mafia have a factional blacksmith ability, allowing a member to gift a gun/armour/vest in exchange for their night action, may gift self.
      • Using an item forfeits any other night action.
      • You may pass one item per night to another player, this DOES NOT forfeit any other night action.
    • Unsure wether or not moving those 3 to Special Mechanics or not. But it doesn't matter.
    • Copy pasted Possible Items from my previous version of this setup, except:
      • Changed their descriptions + made them all be night-use only.
      • Changed name of Vest to Night Armour.
      • Not sure if Binoculours are not overpowered.
      • I think it's unnecessary to add rigged and fake items to the list.
    • Copy pasted Possible Feedback from both setups, removed 1: "You where attacked last night!"
    • Copy Pasted win conditions from Smiths setup.
    • Cpoy Pasted Order of Operations from Smiths setup, except added "0. Roleblock" due to Condoms.
    • Copy pasted Rules from my setup.
    • Did the Mafia really not have a factional night kill in the Smiths setup?
    • Does Auditor see if an item is fake?
    • Some roles mention of both: armour and vest (armor/vest), they are one and the same thing, right?
    • If Conspicuous User uses Night Armour during the day - is he lynch immune?
    • Does Rigger disable the Night Armour when it's activated or make it explode? Should he be able to rig every possible item, including the fake ones?
    Last edited by OzyWho; December 12th, 2019 at 03:13 AM.

  18. #18

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    @Marshmallow Marshall
    Ready for Review. Here is the list of changes I made + things I have questions about (lol, sry):

    • Copy pasted Role list from the Smiths setup
    • Copy pasted Dueling Special Mechanics, but changed them to happen every day. Removed Special Lynch Mechanics.
    • Copy pasted Mechanics from my previous version of this setup +added by copy pasting from Smiths setup:
      • Mafia have a factional blacksmith ability, allowing a member to gift a gun/armour/vest in exchange for their night action, may gift self.
      • Using an item forfeits any other night action.
      • You may pass one item per night to another player, this DOES NOT forfeit any other night action.
    • Unsure wether or not moving those 3 to Special Mechanics or not. But it doesn't matter.
    • Copy pasted Possible Items from my previous version of this setup, except:
      • Changed their descriptions + made them all be night-use only.
      • Changed name of Vest to Night Armour.
      • Not sure if Binoculours are not overpowered.
      • I think it's unnecessary to add rigged and fake items to the list.
    • Copy pasted Possible Feedback from both setups, removed 1: "You where attacked last night!"
    • Copy Pasted win conditions from Smiths setup.
    • Cpoy Pasted Order of Operations from Smiths setup, except added "0. Roleblock" due to Condoms.
    • Copy pasted Rules from my setup.
    • Did the Mafia really not have a factional night kill in the Smiths setup?
    • Does Auditor see if an item is fake?
    • Some roles mention of both: armour and vest (armor/vest), they are one and the same thing, right?
    • If Conspicuous User uses Night Armour during the day - is he lynch immune?
    • Does Rigger disable the Night Armour when it's activated or make it explode? Should he be able to rig every possible item, including the fake ones?
    You're the setup-maker, so you decide about what you want to do with the questions! As long as it's balanced, of course.


    Using one term for the vest/armor would be better, so that people don't think there's a lynch immunity vest and a night immunity armor, or something like that. Nothing big, though.

    I believe that night armour at day would be a day vest, yes. I don't know if it was like that in the original setup, but it just seems fun and balanced. Note that both town and mafia have the possibility of having one.

    About the Rigger, the item that's being rigged becomes both useless and betraying, so I'd say that it makes the armor explode. And yes, I believe that rigging fake items should be a possibility (why not, after all? It would allow for some nice combos.)

    I don't think Auditor sees that; it's the Authenticator's job.

    No, the Mafia did not have a factional kill in the original setup. When it was played, they did not even have a factional blacksmith ability. Mafia lost, too; the setup was rebalanced afterwards.

    Binoculars might be overpowerered, because the amount of deaths possible in this setup is very high. The item could solve the game mechanically with ease, which is not really fun. Tweaking it or removing it would be good.

    I would suggest a 72 hours day phase for this game, given that the first 24 hours are about the Duels. This way, the game would keep its dynamic lynching. Thoughts?
    Last edited by Marshmallow Marshall; December 12th, 2019 at 03:08 PM.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  19. #19

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    You're the setup-maker, so you decide about what you want to do with the questions!
    You say that, but the setup is a literal copy paste and the questions might as well be asked in the original Smith's setup page. When you ask "not sure how it was in the original" - it's a copy paste.

    Yeah.. will clean some things up.

    Setups are strange man. The more complicated they are, the more things need to be clarified but always it's the opposite - the more complicated they are the more things are left out to interpretation. While smaller setups get polished to the last comma.

  20. #20

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    You say that, but the setup is a literal copy paste and the questions might as well be asked in the original Smith's setup page. When you ask "not sure how it was in the original" - it's a copy paste.

    Yeah.. will clean some things up.

    Setups are strange man. The more complicated they are, the more things need to be clarified but always it's the opposite - the more complicated they are the more things are left out to interpretation. While smaller setups get polished to the last comma.
    Just keep it simple. c:

  21. #21

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    You say that, but the setup is a literal copy paste and the questions might as well be asked in the original Smith's setup page. When you ask "not sure how it was in the original" - it's a copy paste.

    Yeah.. will clean some things up.

    Setups are strange man. The more complicated they are, the more things need to be clarified but always it's the opposite - the more complicated they are the more things are left out to interpretation. While smaller setups get polished to the last comma.
    Well, some things were not specified in the original setup, so it's still up to you. For example, the day vests part was not specified, and I don't think it had happened in-game, either.

    And yes, you're right! Complicated setups have more small clarification issues, which means that questions will often be asked in-game. That's why we're in the Workshop! ^^
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  22. #22

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    You're the setup-maker, so you decide about what you want to do with the questions! As long as it's balanced, of course.


    Using one term for the vest/armor would be better, so that people don't think there's a lynch immunity vest and a night immunity armor, or something like that. Nothing big, though.

    I believe that night armour at day would be a day vest, yes. I don't know if it was like that in the original setup, but it just seems fun and balanced. Note that both town and mafia have the possibility of having one.

    About the Rigger, the item that's being rigged becomes both useless and betraying, so I'd say that it makes the armor explode. And yes, I believe that rigging fake items should be a possibility (why not, after all? It would allow for some nice combos.)

    I don't think Auditor sees that; it's the Authenticator's job.

    No, the Mafia did not have a factional kill in the original setup. When it was played, they did not even have a factional blacksmith ability. Mafia lost, too; the setup was rebalanced afterwards.

    Binoculars might be overpowerered, because the amount of deaths possible in this setup is very high. The item could solve the game mechanically with ease, which is not really fun. Tweaking it or removing it would be good.

    I would suggest a 72 hours day phase for this game, given that the first 24 hours are about the Duels. This way, the game would keep its dynamic lynching. Thoughts?
    @OzyWho
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  23. #23

  24. #24

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Thank you, everything you said makes perfect sense.

    Right now I'm going to sleep.

    I'm thinking 72 hours is good. But then I will change it to majority+plurality, after the dueling phase of.

    I think, for simplicity sake, I will just call the night armour a vest and make it day+night. (Immune to duel death AND lynch wooo)

    Will remove binoculars or change it to lookout/detective thingy, haven't yet decided.

    Any ideas for other items? Authenticator as a item perhaps?
    @Marshmallow Marshall

  25. #25

  26. #26

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Can we please have a version of this setup but it’s all citizens and goons with an arms dealer
    You can make one! However, I believe that this setup is more complete and funner in the "item-based setups" category.
    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Thank you, everything you said makes perfect sense.

    Right now I'm going to sleep.

    I'm thinking 72 hours is good. But then I will change it to majority+plurality, after the dueling phase of.

    I think, for simplicity sake, I will just call the night armour a vest and make it day+night. (Immune to duel death AND lynch wooo)

    Will remove binoculars or change it to lookout/detective thingy, haven't yet decided.

    Any ideas for other items? Authenticator as a item perhaps?
    @Marshmallow Marshall
    Sleep for me too.

    Yes, majority + plurality makes sense to add here. It's rare that majority shouldn't be present along with plurality, actually.

    Hmm, the armor then becomes much stronger, and it makes the Blacksmith ability more of a dilemma use. The day item user role still has its use here, because it can adapt to the day's situation and use the vest only if needed at day. In such a situation, the armor would be applied for the next night, correct?

    Sounds good for binoculars.

    Authenticator is an unique role that would be strongly nerfed if its ability was to be made into an item, because it would lose its confirmability. It would also really harm the fake and rigged items. It's not a good idea to do that.

    There is no need to have ten thousand items. Most would probably never be used anyway, and simply add useless complexity and balance issues to the setup. Unless there's a genius idea for a new item, I don't think it's needed.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  27. #27

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Hmm, the armor then becomes much stronger, and it makes the Blacksmith ability more of a dilemma use. The day item user role still has its use here, because it can adapt to the day's situation and use the vest only if needed at day. In such a situation, the armor would be applied for the next night, correct?
    Regarding Conspicuous User - the day item user role, and the Day Vest.
    1. Due to the fact that Mafia have a factional blacksmith ability, the role can become day lynch immune by making himself a vest each night.
    2. The setup, before the balance change, didn't have that problem with the role. So it was good then, but I will remove the role now.
    3. This is true for every mafia role, they can all become lynch immune, IF the Vest can be used at day by anyone. That's why I'm changing the Vest to be only able to be used at nights.
    4. These 2 changes also answer your last question


    Alright, doing changes now. Writing everthing down that I do:
    • Remove Conspicuous User role.
    • Remove Conspicuous User role. (confirmed role too OP imo, even though there's still Shaman)
    • Change day lengths to 72 hours.
    • Changed Lynch Mechanics.
    • Changing Binoculours ability description. In this setup the Detective can also be Lookout. Binoculars can only be Detective.
    • Changing Vests ability description + changing all vest/armour and night armours names to Vest.
    • In role cards that give items: removed the "1-use". (it's already in items description)
    • Changed Rigger's ability description.
    • Removed the possible feedback of the previous Binoculars
    • Added "You got Roleblocked" as possible feedback
    • Created Special Mechanics 2 and moved 3 things from Mechanics.


    Unwritten game mechanic: for detective - someone giving themselves an item counts as visitng themselves, but someone putting on a Vest does not.

    @Marshmallow Marshall
    ready for review
    funny thought: what to do in the UNLIKELY scenario when the final day has only 2 players remaining - 1 mafia and 1 town? The win conditions allow that. But the special mechanics allow the mafia to just not accept the duel and win the next nigth or night after.
    Last edited by OzyWho; December 13th, 2019 at 09:22 AM.

  28. #28

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Using the factional blacksmith ability for permanent lynch immunity would simply end up getting the Conspicuous User killed by a townie's gun at night without any chance to save himself. I don't think it was a balance issue, honestly. However, I see no issue with the role's removal.

    Binoculars are called "binoculours", might want to change that ;)
    Making it a detective-like action is good, though.

    Speaking of detectives, the Detective rolecard says "At night, you may target a player, and either watch who they visit and watch who visits the player you targeted". I assume that means either watch who they visit or watch who visits them? Please clarify.


    As for the 1v1 scenario, the game would play out normally, there's actually no issue with this. Mafia would be very likely to win, though. The game could also end in a no-win scenario for Town and Mafia (but the Arms Dealer would win) if both the townie and the mafiosi have a gun and shoot at eachother. Fun ideas.

    The line "The item in which they make are random from their capabilities." from the Blackmailer's rolecard is strange. It means that the item they will make, if they're able to make one, will only be the one they are able to make, correct? Why not just say that? Unless there's something I'm missing here, this could be clarified.

    Is the Disabler's action target informed of having been disabled? It doesn't say in the rolecard, but I think he should be. Making people think they had a fake gun if they shot at someone is not really a pro-town thing, and the role is town-aligned.


    This setup should be good to go as an Experimental setup after these points are addressed. @OzyWho
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  29. #29

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Using the factional blacksmith ability for permanent lynch immunity would simply end up getting the Conspicuous User killed by a townie's gun at night without any chance to save himself. I don't think it was a balance issue, honestly. However, I see no issue with the role's removal.
    Tbh, I'm also quite happy about that roles removal also to make the life easier on myself. I wouldn't want someone to go "I kill Efekann!" 1 minutes before Efe duels.

    Binoculars are called "binoculours", might want to change that ;)
    On it.
    Making it a detective-like action is good, though.

    Speaking of detectives, the Detective rolecard says "At night, you may target a player, and either watch who they visit and watch who visits the player you targeted". I assume that means either watch who they visit or watch who visits them? Please clarify.
    I blame SJ :P
    Changed that line for Detective and Agent - changed "and" to "or".
    Edit: changing Agent to do both.



    As for the 1v1 scenario, the game would play out normally, there's actually no issue with this. Mafia would be very likely to win, though. The game could also end in a no-win scenario for Town and Mafia (but the Arms Dealer would win) if both the townie and the mafiosi have a gun and shoot at eachother. Fun ideas.
    lol will be fun to see how it turns out.

    The line "The item in which they make are random from their capabilities." from the Blackmailer's rolecard is strange. It means that the item they will make, if they're able to make one, will only be the one they are able to make, correct? Why not just say that? Unless there's something I'm missing here, this could be clarified.
    Random from their capabilities being if the targetted role can make more than 1 type of item. But after you pointed this out - I see that only mafia roles can do that. Blackmailer being mafia himself makes the line redundant because he would never target his mate..
    Removing the line.


    Is the Disabler's action target informed of having been disabled? It doesn't say in the rolecard, but I think he should be. Making people think they had a fake gun if they shot at someone is not really a pro-town thing, and the role is town-aligned.
    Disabler has no Mafia counterpart. Makes me not want to add a feedback that automatically confirms them. I could make a Mafia counterpart though. Which option do you like better?
    For the moment, I changed the last line in possible feedbacks: "(healings and disables have no feedback)"


    This setup should be good to go as an Experimental setup after these points are addressed. @OzyWho
    Stop giving all my setups Experimental tags
    joke
    Green
    @Marshmallow Marshall
    Last edited by OzyWho; December 14th, 2019 at 05:31 AM.

  30. #30

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Can we please have a version of this setup but it’s all citizens and goons with an arms dealer
    In my opinion, since the host can make the choice to pick vanilla roles for all slots, if he wanted to, or give everyone power roles - I think that it's not worth making a copy of a semi closed just to make a open setup version of it because it's technically the same setup.

  31. #31

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    In my opinion, since the host can make the choice to pick vanilla roles for all slots, if he wanted to, or give everyone power roles - I think that it's not worth making a copy of a semi closed just to make a open setup version of it because it's technically the same setup.
    thatís what I was saying but didnít enunciate

    Host runs this setup

    Only citizens and goons
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    @Stealthbomber16 is Light scum this game?
    you said heís more passive aggressive as scum
    Quote Originally Posted by deathworlds View Post
    Uh, SB16 isn't a part of this game
    Hopefully you'll get banned and hit by a truck.

  32. #32

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Good

    Good

    I knew you'd say this xD still had to get it fixed, though.
    And good for the Agent.

    Indeed, the game looks like a lot of fun.

    About the Blackmailer : exactly. Thanks!

    Fair point; giving a Mafia counterpart to the Disabler is a good idea. The role is strong for every alignment anyway. If not, the no feedback being specified is good too. My preference is on the Mafia Disabler, though, as it adds more options to the Mafia, who is quite limited on interactions with items.

    Stop making experimental setups, then!
    But seriously, I like that you try to add new mechanics on the site, and even more that you try to make them fun in our meta. Good job ^^

    Ping me when you finished doing it, and I'll approve it if there's nothing more to discuss.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  33. #33

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Good

    Good

    I knew you'd say this xD still had to get it fixed, though.
    And good for the Agent.

    Indeed, the game looks like a lot of fun.

    About the Blackmailer : exactly. Thanks!

    Fair point; giving a Mafia counterpart to the Disabler is a good idea. The role is strong for every alignment anyway. If not, the no feedback being specified is good too. My preference is on the Mafia Disabler, though, as it adds more options to the Mafia, who is quite limited on interactions with items.

    Stop making experimental setups, then!
    But seriously, I like that you try to add new mechanics on the site, and even more that you try to make them fun in our meta. Good job ^^

    Ping me when you finished doing it, and I'll approve it if there's nothing more to discuss.
    @Marshmallow Marshall
    Idk what I haven't finished doing so.. ping ping
    Last edited by OzyWho; December 14th, 2019 at 08:58 PM.

  34. #34

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    @Marshmallow Marshall
    Idk what I haven't finished doing so.. ping ping
    Ohh, the Disabler. Right right.
    Adding red Disabler to the mix, and adding a feedback
    -The item you tried to use got disabled.
    -Someone attempted to disable your item use.
    Last edited by OzyWho; December 15th, 2019 at 12:04 PM.

  35. #35

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Ohh, the Disabler. Right right.
    Adding red Disabler to the mix, and adding a feedback
    -The item you tried to use got disabled.
    -Someone attempted to disable your item use.
    Yay! Approved as an experimental setup. Do you want to add this to the Queue for the future, or to keep it for later? As a reminder, you already have Lovers Talk on the Queue.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  36. #36

  37. #37

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    add this for after lovers talk
    Yes m'lord. Work work.
    Spoiler : Quotes :
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  38. #38

  39. #39
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Yes m'lord. Work work.
    Off you go then

  40. #40

  41. #41

  42. #42
    Ganelon
    Guest

    Re: S-FM Dueling Smiths

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    WC3 reference
    I've got the beast in me sights!

  43. #43

 

 

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