M-FM V Gamethread

[Rocshi]

As Sumi said, We had a stressful Night 5...

Mafia played a great game overall.

-vote Sumikoko for covering my ass and for planning our every good move.

[BorkBot]

Heh, Charles is here to pay you back, Lelouch. Did you lol at the irony that we were our MFMIV roles switched?

Being Godfather was fun, but it was entirely too stressful this game. Had waaay too many dances with death. But hey, I'm not complaining about how the Witness found me Night 2.

You played well and it deserves recognition, so congratulations on getting your vengeance, but it's only fair to acknowledge that the Mengsk role was doomed to lose this from the get-go. Only absolutely perfect play could have allowed a victory. There was just one mislynch (Deathfire) that wouldn't even have happened if Kromos hadn't suicided (FYRE would have sided with you anyway) and the vigilante and jailor didn't kill any innocents. I won't deny that scum was OP in Deathfire's setup as well, but it wasn't as one-sided as this.

I also can't help but feel that some choices were deliberately made. Namely your role and my role, and that the witness was going to get the journalist ability no matter what as long as he sent an article. But that's just a feeling. I obviously can't prove it.

[Ubernox]

Yes, blame the setup. No, It's not that only a perfect play would have won in this setup: Only a perfect play would have defeated the skillful manoeuvres of the mafia. Witness strives for the journalist role and gets it. Manages to get the job and manages to find Kim Raynor on his first interview, which gave him a way of telling her that he was the witness without saying it in day chat.

The mafia recruit was also successful almost every night, and all the right kills were made.

Thanks to Sumikomo's leadership, of course.

-vote Sumi

[BorkBot]

Witness strives for the journalist role and gets it. Manages to get the job and manages to find Kim Raynor on his first interview, which gave him a way of telling her that he was the witness without saying it in day chat.

It should've been randomly assigned to a citizen... Citizens didn't have much incentive to put effort into getting the journalist role when they win more easily if the Witness gets it instead.

The setup was designed in such a way that the witness was destined to get night chat (lol) to fish for Raiders. You did a good job finding Raynor immediately, though. Had I been in your shoes, I would've gone for obvious raider Kromos

[McJesus]

Borkbot quit whining, town would have won if Kira didn't fail at being a bodyguard

[Ubernox]

He's just new, but yes; the bodyguard could have stopped a lot of recruits.

[Luna]

Town would have been in deep trouble if Escaho didn't bus me to get shot :P Having an Arsonist on your team which can INCINERATE ROLES - epic win!

Which is why Escaho gets my -vote for Player's Choice

[Luna]

Even if he 'pegged' me as scum, despite the fact that I didn't join in on the Deathfire vote train (even though I caught the end of it, extremely hungover)

[Ubernox]

Escaho already got a reward! If not, I would have already voted for him.

[Sumikoko]

You played well and it deserves recognition, so congratulations on getting your vengeance, but it's only fair to acknowledge that the Mengsk role was doomed to lose this from the get-go. Only absolutely perfect play could have allowed a victory. There was just one mislynch (Deathfire) that wouldn't even have happened if Kromos hadn't suicided (FYRE would have sided with you anyway) and the vigilante and jailor didn't kill any innocents. I won't deny that scum was OP in Deathfire's setup as well, but it wasn't as one-sided as this.

I also can't help but feel that some choices were deliberately made. Namely your role and my role, and that the witness was going to get the journalist ability no matter what as long as he sent an article. But that's just a feeling. I obviously can't prove it.

I'll have to disagree with you on this one, Borkbot. And McJesus knows how much I've stressed out over this lol. Mafia can only win this game with an incredible stroke of luck. Granted, the town had its share of ridiculous luck itself, but Mafia was close to losing immediately several times.

1. Indeed Kromos suicided, which is possibly the worst choice he could have made. If he had not, and I recruited the Witness the following night, then I would have been able to get 4 recruits, not 3. That was a huge setback.
2. Fragos's night shot was impeccable, and might have caused us the second to the most grief. Shooting Nick and instead shooting Luna was just ridiculous. And we almost protected Mopin the night night after. If Waaagh had been killed...
3. We had pinned FYRE as a town PR, unfortunately. And we almost killed him too, thanks to Escaho. His recruitment was close to never happening.
4. Kira made several actions that can only be classified as gamethrowing lol. Especially last night. Though he is a new player, so I'd give him some leeway about it.
5. Escaho. He deserves the title as Mafia's pain in the neck. Lol. It got to the point that I was so desperate to eliminate him I would employ all our resources to do it. I mean, seriously. Switching the person we investigated. Redirecting the night shot to Luna. Good grief lol.

As for Ubernox getting the journalist role, we can probably argue about this all day lol. And we're both going to be biased in our own ways. While he could fish for Mafia, the Nova and Jailer in turn can fish for him. It was a mere stroke of luck he found me first. I could not believe my luck that night. I guess it was compensated with Luna dying. Contrary to your last will, I did not kill you. Ubernox's article was truly stunning, however. I have no doubt he was picked on terms of the best article written. This, you can easily prove. Just ask McJesus to post all the submissions he had. I daresay Ubernox had no competition.

[BorkBot]

Nanosystem wasn't even the best bodyguard target. In retrospect he was, but logically speaking, guarding one of the unconfirmed doctor/mafias is a gamble. Best BG target was Dimwit, with the doc on the only confirmed PR Fragos (good job nanosystem). Problem is we already lost our voting majority.

Kiran's failure was scum votes (vote to lynch the mayor?) and breaking the rules.

You can tell me to quit whining, but in Dead Chat you admitted yourself that the mafia already won on night 2.

mafia has this game in the bag...

If that happens so soon, then there's more in play than just luck and skill.

I also think a witch with a night chat shouldn't be able to control a neutral killer indefinitely (good call there from Deathfire).

I'm the kind of guy who likes to point out flaws (you know this, we have shared criticism in the past). If you think I'm taking a leak on your efforts, that's not my intention. I know that a lot of work goes into designing and running an MFM (even an SFM) and it kind of becomes "your baby" when you're busy with it, but I don't think I'm being disrespectful here. I'm just being critical.

You can criticise me too when my MFM is done
That one's extremely experimental, so we're bound to find flaws in it.

Just ask McJesus to post all the submissions he had. I daresay Ubernox had no competition.

You're right. Waaagh was the only other person who even sent an article. ^incentive.

[Ubernox]

Heck, the game could have gone very differently. What If I had seen the obstacles against mafia and decided to win with town? I could have just revealed as the witness and been shot night 2. You never would have reached 6 members, considering especially how Kromos and (later) Mopin were killed. I would have posthumously won with town.

[Ubernox]

Even if Waaagh had got the job things would have gone very differently.

[Sumikoko]

You're right. Waaagh was the only other person who even sent an article. ^incentive.

Hehe. Blame random.org for giving you rather crappy citizens? xD I know if I had been one, I would have definitely attempted. I'm surprised Nick didn't send one in. But as far as citizens go, Nick and Waaagh were your only hope. McJesus may have said we had the game in the bag by Night 2, which I even thought we did, but by Day 4, he was telling us we were royally screwed lol.

The strongest evidence against your claim that this game was biased toward the Mafia was by the overwhelming consent by the town members not to double cross you. All my teammates knew this, but I was prepared to double cross every remaining town members there were left and kill them outright instead of suiciding like I had said. We, or I will take all responsibility and say, I killed Jaczac first night, and town decided not to side with us. But after the Witness was recruited, it was semi-apparent that Mafia was not so easily defeated. I realized it would have gone against their win conditions, but town refused to side with us to just lynch you Borkbot, forsaking their own win possibility then and there. Why? Because they believed they had a high chance of winning together as town.

Contrary to FMVI, the town chickened out and voted with Sin, because they believed Sin had an overwhelming advantage and could win with them, even if it meant the loss of all the other town members that had perished. This is the same scenario, except the town didn't even consider siding with us past Day 1. That only proves that town believed they had a genuinely strong chance at winning this.

[CmG]

I told u. This game was rigged.

[BorkBot]

Contrary to FMVI, the town chickened out and voted with Sin, because they believed Sin had an overwhelming advantage and could win with them, even if it meant the loss of all the other town members that had perished. This is the same scenario, except the town didn't even consider siding with us past Day 1. That only proves that town believed they had a genuinely strong chance at winning this.

Well, I never did if you look at my daytime comments

Kiran actually voted to lynch me at the start of day 2 (which is why I instantly stopped trusting him and considered him to be a cit) and others like Nick and Waaagh openly stated that they would have supported lynching me on day 2 if noone was killed.

What happened here is actually very comparable to what happened in FM6. Firstly, in FM6 we were aware of the number of demons in play, while in this game we didn't know how many recruits the raiders had. FM6 had more people, so there was a more gradual change in the number of Sin supporters. If this game had been on a bigger scale, I'm sure some townies (like Kiran) would slowly turn to the raiders as well, knowing that the town could do nothing to reduce their chances of winning without shooting itself in the foot. The last lynch from the town took a lot of effort, but the event where they "recruited their witness" (Auckmid was killed) came later and thus gave them a lynch majority instantly.


On a completely different note, I like how Dimwit's terrible luck with investigations is so similar to my detective checks in MFM3. Follow a mobster when he doesn't do anything so he looks inno, then following the traitor who had just turned cylon so he had no night actions, then following the citizen who would later become the sleeper agent, and after that a witch that took no action.

And Ubernox checking 2 framed targets and then a real mafia XD

I know how you feel, brothers. Baffled and defending the scum because you believe in your results. Argh.

-vote Sumikoko for MvP because of good play
And more than anything because she was going to doublecross traitors among the town.

Let that be a message. Suicidal lemming strategies suck

[CmG]

If you clowns just would have listened to me. BUT NO .

[BorkBot]

We had like 1 hour left and I realised I was talking to a bunch of raiders and a citizen who was already on the Sumikoko bandwagon. Everyone else had left. I wouldn't have hammered Mopin otherwise (didn't even think he'd be the witch).

[CmG]

i knew we had lost as Frogos left his vote on mopin. And i don't want to talk about those other Tpr who where left in game...

[BorkBot]

You should add more red to your sig

[CmG]

blue sucks.

had 0 part in it.

[BorkBot]

You could use this shade of blue instead.

[Sumikoko]

I see how it is, CmG. Fine. The feeling's mutual.
-postkill CmG

And like, I don't remember you being my Consigliere in FMVIII... >: -shun-

[BorkBot]

I also don't remember him being a Cylon in MFM 3

Though people suspected him of being those roles in those FMs. CmG is always scum, after all.

[CmG]

I am clearly the most scum around in every game i participate. If i don'T get nightkilled N1 i destroy every game

[CmG]

Just look at TheWaaagh's game Zane is a pro! He knew he has to kill me N1 or he loses the game!

[Sumikoko]

CmG and Waaagh. If they do not die Night 1, they are scum.

Or if they're not scum, there WILL be a cult to recruit them. That's right. The cult exists because random.org rolled them citizens. Not the other way around. What? I'm not making sense? Do you want a pole skewered through you?

[CmG]

No thx. I ll pass the pole part to Borkbot. He is more into kinky stuff then me

[BorkBot]

You've got the wrong guy. You're thinking of Cubecow.

[CmG]

Ah yeah. Well i wonder how it goes for him at his new life

[Escaho]

A good game to all! I'd like to give some thoughts on my experience:

-I loved the idea of the events. I do wish they were slightly more balanced (i.e. - giving the Raiders a third of the citizens upon recruiting the Witness instead of half. The ONLY reason town wasn't screwed out of the gate was because Kromos suicided and we ended up lynching a Citizen). But they were fun and known to all, so I thought it was very interesting.

-McPwnage tried damn hard. He took a lot of flack for the balance issues and I respect him for sticking through it and providing us with an entertaining experience. It was really enjoyable, in my opinion.

-A seasoned mafia. It was great to read the mafia chat, watching Sumikoko and Mopin work together to bring about the downfall of the Town. To be fair, I don't think their struggle was as difficult as the Town's, but it was a very interesting read with all the recruits mulling about.

-My only issue with the entire thing came about during my death. Please let me explain (and if you read the dead chat you'd have read this already): I was told that I was unable to target myself. That was fine. Having the witch be able to force me to target myself? Alright, sure, I'll accept that. She has special voodoo powers. But I was fairly frustrated by the fact that the witch could not only target the bus driver, not only *use* his ability [I have never seen this before. Is this common for other FMs?], AND make me target myself with my own ability. I was--and still am--very skeptical about this. If I had not claimed Bus Driver, the Witch could only target me and say, "control [bus driver] to target [player x]." There would be no bussing taking place. It would be a one-time action on one player, not multiple players. It merely seems that because they knew I was the bus driver that the mafia was allowed to use my ability. If they had not known, there is no way they would be able to use it, so it does not make sense to me.
(Also, I was informed by the host that bussing occurs before witching. If this is the case, is there a reason my two targets were not bussed?)

Other than that last note, I really enjoyed the game. Bussing a sniper shot onto Luna really was just icing on the cake for me and the highlight of my mafia experience (in fact, it's been great here so far in the past month. Cylons, being Jack Bauer, and re-directing an assassin's bullet to hit the most fearsome player left in the game!).

Thanks everyone. I had fun and hope to have more in future mafia games. =D

[CmG]

A good game to all! I'd like to give some thoughts on my experience:

-I loved the idea of the events. I do wish they were slightly more balanced (i.e. - giving the Raiders a third of the citizens upon recruiting the Witness instead of half. The ONLY reason town wasn't screwed out of the gate was because Kromos suicided and we ended up lynching a Citizen). But they were fun and known to all, so I thought it was very interesting.

-McPwnage tried damn hard. He took a lot of flack for the balance issues and I respect him for sticking through it and providing us with an entertaining experience. It was really enjoyable, in my opinion.

-A seasoned mafia. It was great to read the mafia chat, watching Sumikoko and Mopin work together to bring about the downfall of the Town. To be fair, I don't think their struggle was as difficult as the Town's, but it was a very interesting read with all the recruits mulling about.

-My only issue with the entire thing came about during my death. Please let me explain (and if you read the dead chat you'd have read this already): I was told that I was unable to target myself. That was fine. Having the witch be able to force me to target myself? Alright, sure, I'll accept that. She has special voodoo powers. But I was fairly frustrated by the fact that the witch could not only target the bus driver, not only *use* his ability [I have never seen this before. Is this common for other FMs?], AND make me target myself with my own ability. I was--and still am--very skeptical about this. If I had not claimed Bus Driver, the Witch could only target me and say, "control [bus driver] to target [player x]." There would be no bussing taking place. It would be a one-time action on one player, not multiple players. It merely seems that because they knew I was the bus driver that the mafia was allowed to use my ability. If they had not known, there is no way they would be able to use it, so it does not make sense to me.
(Also, I was informed by the host that bussing occurs before witching. If this is the case, is there a reason my two targets were not bussed?)

Other than that last note, I really enjoyed the game. Bussing a sniper shot onto Luna really was just icing on the cake for me and the highlight of my mafia experience (in fact, it's been great here so far in the past month. Cylons, being Jack Bauer, and re-directing an assassin's bullet to hit the most fearsome player left in the game!).

Thanks everyone. I had fun and hope to have more in future mafia games. =D

-vote Mcfaggot

[Sumikoko]

My only issue with the entire thing came about during my death. Please let me explain (and if you read the dead chat you'd have read this already): I was told that I was unable to target myself. That was fine. Having the witch be able to force me to target myself? Alright, sure, I'll accept that. She has special voodoo powers. But I was fairly frustrated by the fact that the witch could not only target the bus driver, not only *use* his ability [I have never seen this before. Is this common for other FMs?], AND make me target myself with my own ability. I was--and still am--very skeptical about this. If I had not claimed Bus Driver, the Witch could only target me and say, "control [bus driver] to target [player x]." There would be no bussing taking place. It would be a one-time action on one player, not multiple players. It merely seems that because they knew I was the bus driver that the mafia was allowed to use my ability. If they had not known, there is no way they would be able to use it, so it does not make sense to me.
(Also, I was informed by the host that bussing occurs before witching. If this is the case, is there a reason my two targets were not bussed?)

Hello there, Escaho! You are now my primary target if I'm Mafia again. Grrr. Lol. I'm just joking. Wonderful bussing skills though. You were really a thorn in my side.

I am actually not sure what happens if we didn't know you were the bus driver and had you target one person. I would have thought it defaulted to us witching you to switch yourself with that person anyway, but I honestly can't vouch for anything.

And while bussing USUALLY occurs before witching, the correct sequence isn't always that. I guess because it's second nature to McJesus, he didn't quite explain it thoroughly. But what generally happens is that bussing occurs before witching ONLY IF the bus driver himself isn't the witch target. If he is, then the witching would precede the bussing. Sorry for the confusion.

[Escaho]

Thanks for attempting to clarify my confusion, Sumi.

For great gameplay and smart decision-making, I award my MVP vote to: -vote Sumikoko

[Luna]

This thread will be moved to the archives later on tonight.

[Kromos]

woo

[Kromos]

-vote Ubernox for remaining hidden as the witness, becoming the journalist and talking to Sumi on his first night as journalist.

Sorry for my suicide, that was a bad move

[Kromos]

After reading maf chat -vote Mopin

He remained unsuspicious, made good calls on people's roles and saved sumi from getting lynched which basically saved the game for us.

[Ubernox]

Good point. His screw up was a good thing in retrospect!