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  1. ISO #51

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Quote Originally Posted by McPwnage View Post
    Raynor's Raiders win if at least one of them survives long enough to see Mengsk lynched
    Town wins as a faction long as Mengsk is alive at the end, if Mengsk is lynched only the surviving town members win. Regardless of if Mengsk is alive town members have to eliminate Raynor's Raiders, and the Devil Dog to win
    Devil Dog be the last man alive, can win with Raynor's Raiders if they have fufilled their win condition
    Hmm... missed this. So...

    1) Raynor Raiders will want Devil Dog dead so that Town will support the lynching of Mengsk. Town can kill off Raynor Raiders after Devil Dog and Mengsk is dead. Can kill and recruit, meaning number over town grows by 2 per day if lynch is correct, 3 if lynch is wrong, assuming successful recruit everynight.

    2) Town will prefer that Mengsk is alive, so that their chances of winning is higher. In this sense, town will try to be as passive as possible to avoid being marked for death. Citizens are lucky because they can join the Raynor Raiders - the sure win faction.

    3) Devil Dog will be hunted by Raynor Raiders eager to convince town to lynch Mengsk. Mengsk will try to keep Devil Dog alive until Raynor Raiders have whittled down in number. But try telling that to the Sheriff, Investigator and Nova.

  2. ISO #52

  3. ISO #53

  4. ISO #54

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Well if the vigilante can't shoot tonight, and the jailor can jail but not execute, and the Raider's can still get their cult on with somebody in jail, I see no reason for the Witness to not just come out and claim themselves. Get culted tonight and then have half of the citizens instajoin Raynor.

    So whoever the witness is, step up.

  5. ISO #55

  6. ISO #56

  7. ISO #57

  8. ISO #58

  9. ISO #59

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Quote Originally Posted by McPwnage View Post
    There are actually a lot of problems with the witness just claiming day 1 but I'll let you guys figure them out. I don't want to reveal my thought process on balance until after the game.
    Question is: Does he need to be ALIVE to win with Raynor Raider?

  10. ISO #60

  11. ISO #61

  12. ISO #62

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Uum... is Jim Raynor Lucifer? Two actions per night?

    So if detective tracks him, he will visit 2 person = Jim Raynor, or dropship?
    I debated doing random.org and showing only one action but decided that yes he will see both people targeted.

  13. ISO #63

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Quote Originally Posted by McPwnage View Post
    You are the Witness. You know Mengsk's secret but wish to live a peaceful life. You do not have any abilities but are vital to the game. As long as the you are alive and not recruited you with the town. If you killed by the mafia, Nova's dayshot or lynched you will LOSE and the secret will be revealed. If you are recruited by Jim Raynor you will win with the mafia and the secret will be revealed. If you killed by Nova's night shot or The Devil Dog the secret is buried and you win with the town.
    If I'm correct...

    Stay alive: TOWN and maybe WIN
    Killed by mafia: LOSE
    Killed by dayshot: LOSE
    Lynched: LOSE
    Killed by nightshot: TOWN and maybe WIN
    Killed by Devil Dog: TOWN and maybe WIN
    Recruited by mafia: MAFIA and WIN

  14. ISO #64

  15. ISO #65

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    I'm still waiting on the Witness to step up.

    If you are randomly killed tonight by the mafia, you lose.
    The town can not stop you from revealing yourself and joining the mafia tonight.
    The Arsonist can not douse and burn you tonight.

    Getting recruited tonight is your best option, and it will allow ~4 citizens to immediately join the Raiders. Which is a pretty intense power swing for night 1. And it's a safety net for you to win if you are killed later on after having been recruited.

  16. ISO #66

  17. ISO #67

  18. ISO #68

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Quote Originally Posted by McPwnage View Post
    no vigilante shooting starts night 2, also vigilante cannot be witched into shooting night 1
    I think McPwnage has actually admitted to us that there is a witch. Anyway, right now I'm 90% sure why the third mafia is.

    Spoiler : Forum Mafia History :
    FMVI: Seer FMVII: Lookout FMIX: Propagandist FMX: Arsonist FMXI:Janitor FMXIII: Corrupt Journalist
    FMXIV: Lookout FM XVI: Vigilante FM XVII: Host FM XVIII: Witch FM XIX: Bounty Hunter FMXX: Electro Maniac



  19. ISO #69

  20. ISO #70

  21. ISO #71

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Ah I get it. Reveal before Nova is dead and you'll end up like the Romans and lovers!
    Lol ouch. This one stings, because I was both lol. My brain has shut off already, so I don't know about the whole witness claim thing. I'm sure there's SOMETHING wrong with it. I just don't know what.

  22. ISO #72

  23. ISO #73

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Quote Originally Posted by Sumikoko View Post
    Lol ouch. This one stings, because I was both lol. My brain has shut off already, so I don't know about the whole witness claim thing. I'm sure there's SOMETHING wrong with it. I just don't know what.
    TheWaaagh got it right. Witness can CLAIM NOW and cannot die tonight while able to be recruited. Expect multiple witness claims today.

  24. ISO #74

  25. ISO #75

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Also I agree that there are definitely some flaws in setup that were overlooked by McPwnage, such as Witness claim on first day. Emperor Borkbot actually needs to rely on Nova in order to erase the dark "secret", otherwise sooner or later the "secret" will be revealed and he will be overthrown.

    Spoiler : Forum Mafia History :
    FMVI: Seer FMVII: Lookout FMIX: Propagandist FMX: Arsonist FMXI:Janitor FMXIII: Corrupt Journalist
    FMXIV: Lookout FM XVI: Vigilante FM XVII: Host FM XVIII: Witch FM XIX: Bounty Hunter FMXX: Electro Maniac



  26. ISO #76

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Also, if there would be multiple witness claims, there is a chance that real witness will not get recruited by night 1 and will be killed by nova on night 2 instead.

    Spoiler : Forum Mafia History :
    FMVI: Seer FMVII: Lookout FMIX: Propagandist FMX: Arsonist FMXI:Janitor FMXIII: Corrupt Journalist
    FMXIV: Lookout FM XVI: Vigilante FM XVII: Host FM XVIII: Witch FM XIX: Bounty Hunter FMXX: Electro Maniac



  27. ISO #77

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragos View Post
    Also, if there would be multiple witness claims, there is a chance that real witness will not get recruited by night 1 and will be killed by nova on night 2 instead.
    A) Citizens have no reason to role-claim as Witness. It's better to let the real witness do it so four can join the revolution and then the others can claim during the day. They won't get shot because Nova will need to save her bullets for the huge influx of recruits the revolutionaries already have.
    B) The only townspeople that would counter-claim are power roles. But they're not going to do that because they'd essentially be saying "Don't waste a recruit on me! Murder me tonight instead!".

  28. ISO #78

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Witness loses himself if killed by mafia, so if there will be, say, two witness role claims, the mafia will try to recruit one person and kill another. It's a gambling with devil.

    Spoiler : Forum Mafia History :
    FMVI: Seer FMVII: Lookout FMIX: Propagandist FMX: Arsonist FMXI:Janitor FMXIII: Corrupt Journalist
    FMXIV: Lookout FM XVI: Vigilante FM XVII: Host FM XVIII: Witch FM XIX: Bounty Hunter FMXX: Electro Maniac



  29. ISO #79

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragos View Post
    Witness loses himself if killed by mafia, so if there will be, say, two witness role claims, the mafia will try to recruit one person and kill another. It's a gambling with devil.
    Doubtful, if there's two role-claims, they'll recruit one tonight, leave the other for tomorrow. If they were right, they kill the counter-claim. If they were wrong, they recruit the counter-claim.

    Meanwhile, town has no idea what to do with the two witness claims. So their resources will likely be tied up in who's lying and who's not. Which means a town pr (remember because citizens won't fake claim as witness) just made other town prs waste an action on him, instead of on searching for the mafia.

  30. ISO #80

  31. ISO #81

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWaaagh View Post
    Doubtful, if there's two role-claims, they'll recruit one tonight, leave the other for tomorrow. If they were right, they kill the counter-claim. If they were wrong, they recruit the counter-claim.

    Meanwhile, town has no idea what to do with the two witness claims. So their resources will likely be tied up in who's lying and who's not. Which means a town pr (remember because citizens won't fake claim as witness) just made other town prs waste an action on him, instead of on searching for the mafia.
    Mengsk will not dare to lynch the witness.

  32. ISO #82

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Here's another idea, for your consideration:

    Raynor's Raiders win if at least one of them survives long enough to see Mengsk lynched
    Town wins as a faction long as Mengsk is alive at the end, if Mengsk is lynched only the surviving town members win. Regardless of if Mengsk is alive town members have to eliminate Raynor's Raiders, and the Devil Dog.

    Town lynches Mengsk. Raynor's Raiders win. They do nothing at night except use Consig abilities to hunt Devil Dog. We lynch Devil Dog. They kill suicide without killing a single person at night.

    Result: Everyone except Mengsk and the Devil Dog wins.

    Right?

  33. ISO #83

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWaaagh View Post
    Here's another idea, for your consideration:

    Raynor's Raiders win if at least one of them survives long enough to see Mengsk lynched
    Town wins as a faction long as Mengsk is alive at the end, if Mengsk is lynched only the surviving town members win. Regardless of if Mengsk is alive town members have to eliminate Raynor's Raiders, and the Devil Dog.

    Town lynches Mengsk. Raynor's Raiders win. They do nothing at night except use Consig abilities to hunt Devil Dog. We lynch Devil Dog. They kill suicide without killing a single person at night.

    Result: Everyone except Mengsk and the Devil Dog wins.

    Right?
    I got a similar conclusion. Much like support Sin early so that all except Eternity and perhaps 2 disciple will lose. Might not work because we cannot guarantee that we can get Jesus/Devil Dog early enough.

    By the way, Raynor might be hesitant to recruit the revealed witness at night for fear of lookout.

  34. ISO #84

  35. ISO #85

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Quote Originally Posted by nanosystem View Post
    True, we don't have to lynch the Raiders. And it's much less of a moral issue to backstab MengskBot since he (and the Devil Dog+the 1-2 townies killed by him) will be the only loser(s).
    Hmm... come to thing of it...

    I'm a fervent supporter to Emperor Mengsk. May you rule the universe.

    I love Devil Dog. I love to watch his fireworks safely at the sidelines.

    And I claim witness! Recruit me tonight!

  36. ISO #86

  37. ISO #87

  38. ISO #88

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Does bodyguard pierce Raynor's immunity?

    Is Raynor the Lucifer really required?


    Very difficult to win as Devil Dog.
    Bodyguard does not, Jailor does. Yes raynor the Lucifer is really required, trust me I'm not winging this I'm an INTJ we are materminds.

    When has it ever been easy to win as an arsonist?

  39. ISO #89

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Quote Originally Posted by McPwnage View Post
    Bodyguard does not, Jailor does. Yes raynor the Lucifer is really required, trust me I'm not winging this I'm an INTJ we are materminds.

    When has it ever been easy to win as an arsonist?
    At least make him immune...

    Non-immune arsonist where only Mengsk want him alive? And lose 1v1 against Mengsk. Seemed pitiful... unless you have a hidden reason that you are not telling.

  40. ISO #90

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    I could probably write a whole essay on the balance of this setup but the arsonist isn't underpowered but I don't want to give too much away because that could really impact how people play the game. Remember ANYONE KILLED BY THEM's ROLE IS SANATIZED! That is a huge advantage the arsonist has never had before. Arsonist being immune would make him completely OP in my opinion.

  41. ISO #91

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    At least make him immune...

    Non-immune arsonist where only Mengsk want him alive? And lose 1v1 against Mengsk. Seemed pitiful... unless you have a hidden reason that you are not telling.
    Apparently I forgot something. Never mind. You are correct. Not immune is good. Too tired it seems.

  42. ISO #92

  43. ISO #93

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    There is another flaw. Nova is not the only town who can kill, there may also be a Jailor. So I had to ask McPwnage what happens to secret when witness is executed by Jailor, as he did not write anything about that. And here is what he replied to me:

    Ya my bad, man hosting is a lot more work than I thought it would be at first (I love the work but still). The deal on the jailor is if he executes the target the secret will be buried. Also, jailed target cannot be recruited by Raynor.
    So, Nick, if you are really the witness as you "claimed", then prepare to be ended in jail for the rest of the game. I can already assume that Jailor is present in this game (for balance reasons of course).

    Spoiler : Forum Mafia History :
    FMVI: Seer FMVII: Lookout FMIX: Propagandist FMX: Arsonist FMXI:Janitor FMXIII: Corrupt Journalist
    FMXIV: Lookout FM XVI: Vigilante FM XVII: Host FM XVIII: Witch FM XIX: Bounty Hunter FMXX: Electro Maniac



  44. ISO #94

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Quote Originally Posted by McPwnage View Post
    jailor can jail every day but can only execute if there is no lynch. Jailor cannot execute night 1. If target is in jail they are immune to night death but can still be recruited by Raynor's Raiders. If the jailor jails a mafia member they will receive the notification "someone is mysteriously absent" at the beginning of the night.
    Last post. Ask him to change that.

  45. ISO #95

    Re: MFMV Day 1: Hail Emperor Borkbot

    Why hello, everybody!

    Man, this is going to get tricky with two FMs at the same time...

    First off, the Arsonist can totally win. Everyone agreed that the SK in the last FM would die within 1-2 nights (one passive vest protection), but he won the game! Same with the Cultist. Plus, Arso has the added benefit of sanitizing roles so he can claim whatever he wants (this also really helps Raynor's Raiders).

    Can Nova day shoot on Day 1? Does this reveal who Nova is to everyone?
    (Sorry, the concept of Day shooting is new to me in Forum Mafia.)

    However, it does seem to be beneficial to have Raynor's Raiders find Devil Dog, along with the Town, kill him, lynch Mengsk, and then all surviving town and Raynor's Raiders win together. (Mostly) everybody wins!

  46. ISO #96

  47. ISO #97

  48. ISO #98

  49. ISO #99

  50. ISO #100

 

 

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