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  1. #1

    Best Voting System

    What is, in your opinion, the best voting system in Mafia? Majority, the common lynch when 50 % + 1 players want someone lynched? Plurality, the "mandatory lynch" at EoD? Plurality with majority enabled? Condorcet voting? Other systems?


    I personally believe that plurality + majority makes the game more interesting, because it forces lynches, which adds more chat-based content to the game. Condorcet is also interesting, because of its "objectivity" (it's very hard to mess with, and represents people's thoughts quite accurately).

    Discuss ^^
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
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    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
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    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
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  2. #2

  3. #3

    Re: Best Voting System

    I prefer mandatory Lynch with majority upon EoD.
    No hammers

    It is strictly personal preference that I prefer only pushing one evil at a time for lynch targeting. As an evil I very much prefer having this method because I can use it to my advantage by pressing on an already suspected evil to hide myself in plain sight.
    There is also no need to rush the debate because the day is going to last the full term anyways. That gives players the time to debate and discuss the potency of their Lynch.

    I dislike condorcet because of its natural tendency to favor a township over evils. It forces evils to power wolf or play the towns game
    Last edited by Damus_Graves; June 11th, 2019 at 02:11 AM.

  4. #4

    Re: Best Voting System

    Quote Originally Posted by Damus_Graves View Post
    I prefer mandatory Lynch with majority upon EoD.
    No hammers

    It is strictly personal preference that I prefer only pushing one evil at a time for lynch targeting. As an evil I very much prefer having this method because I can use it to my advantage by pressing on an already suspected evil to hide myself in plain sight.
    There is also no need to rush the debate because the day is going to last the full term anyways. That gives players the time to debate and discuss the potency of their Lynch.

    I dislike condorcet because of its natural tendency to favor a township over evils. It forces evils to power wolf or play the towns game
    That's plurality without majority, btw.

    I'd say majority is part of the game, though. Not having it makes the game a bit "boring", because people tend to be more passive. Majority keeps some kind of "urge". And condorcet has majority IIRC, so it's pretty good.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  5. #5

    Re: Best Voting System

    Players being passive because majority isn't enabled sounds like a player problem. Not a vote system problem.

    I'd also argue that having no majority more easily allows you to have competing trains. Which is good for town.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  6. #6

    Re: Best Voting System

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    That's plurality without majority, btw.

    I'd say majority is part of the game, though. Not having it makes the game a bit "boring", because people tend to be more passive. Majority keeps some kind of "urge". And condorcet has majority IIRC, so it's pretty good.
    oh is that what it is? I was under the impression it wasnt, since the person with most votes gets lynched thus being majority.
    but anyways. Majority is not necessary to the game honestly, hence why it works without it.

  7. #7

    Re: Best Voting System

    Quote Originally Posted by Damus_Graves View Post
    oh is that what it is? I was under the impression it wasnt, since the person with most votes gets lynched thus being majority.
    but anyways. Majority is not necessary to the game honestly, hence why it works without it.
    Plurality means the person with the most votes (even if it’s only 1 vote) gets lynched at EOD, and there is never an early lynch.

    Majority means the first person to get votes >1/2 the player count gets lynched instantly, but if nobody gets there then nobody gets lynched.

    Plurality + Majority is like majority but if nobody gets enough votes to be lynched then at EOD whoever has the most votes will get lynched.
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  8. #8

    Re: Best Voting System

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    Plurality means the person with the most votes (even if it’s only 1 vote) gets lynched at EOD, and there is never an early lynch.

    Majority means the first person to get votes >1/2 the player count gets lynched instantly, but if nobody gets there then nobody gets lynched.

    Plurality + Majority is like majority but if nobody gets enough votes to be lynched then at EOD whoever has the most votes will get lynched.
    I think we already have mechanic like this in mafia...

  9. #9

    Re: Best Voting System

    Quote Originally Posted by Arsonist View Post
    I think we already have mechanic like this in mafia...
    This is FM Discussion, we are talking about the names of these systems.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

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  13. #13

    Re: Best Voting System

    The default majority lynch we typically use on-site isn't bad. It does its job well (it does have some hiccoughs though).
    I like plurality, and majority + trial as well.
    Anonymous voting sounds interesting, but I feel as though it would be a bit too Mafia-sided.
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    lmao he is the baby in your picture

  14. #14

  15. #15

    Re: Best Voting System

    Quote Originally Posted by Damus_Graves View Post
    Shoulda added a pill here.

    Is there a Lynch system we DONT use?
    Do you know of another one?
    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    I just realized 'best' could mean many different things.

    most fair?
    most interesting?
    etc.
    That's part of the discussion ;)

    I personally think it's all the same, though, since an interesting voting system is inherently fair, at least to me. If it favors one side to the point where it can realistically (and not in a 0.1% scenario) influence and imbalance the game's outcome, then I don't think the system is interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    The default majority lynch we typically use on-site isn't bad. It does its job well (it does have some hiccoughs though).
    I like plurality, and majority + trial as well.
    Anonymous voting sounds interesting, but I feel as though it would be a bit too Mafia-sided.
    I'm currently playing a game in which votes are sent by PM to the host, and then revealed at EoD (only the final votes). It makes the game much more hidden, because without seeing actual votes, it's hard to keep track of reads. It's possible, but hard.


    What was a strange but very fun system was the Turnabout Mafia (AKA the game about trials) one. Of course, it is complicated, but I think this system could be an inspiration for other ones that would "split" the voters in small discussion groups. That being said, I don't think it should become something standard on the site.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  16. #16

    Re: Best Voting System

    It really depends as with most things. Overall, plurality+majority/pure majority are the best I believe. As in, they work in lots of different setups. Some election systems, like condorcet, are very interesting (and some would say fair), and somewhat townsided, but to me it seems as though a voting system like that is quite difficult to analyze correctly (simply because of how many variables come into play).

    I would say pure plurality+majority is not only the best one overall, but also the most balanced voting system. It allows for town to pressure suspects, whilst also making it relatively easy for scum to hide in the voting patterns, and it seems quite intuitive, unlike a Condorcet-style system, which has a depth to it (I think the depth is actually n-1, which is massive compared to plurality which has a depth of 1).

    I do feel like anonymous voting would be interesting if (possibly) quite scum-sided. I fear that anonymous voting wouldn't really be that different from normal voting, as (under normal circumstances) town members have little reason to lie about their vote (and should indeed announce who it is they are voting for) and so would (at least at first) collapse into a public vote. It would only be at the very end that the voting system would start showing its teeth (or in one of those rare setups involving multiple, relatively powerful scum factions).
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    lmao he is the baby in your picture

  17. #17

    Re: Best Voting System

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganelon View Post
    It really depends as with most things. Overall, plurality+majority/pure majority are the best I believe. As in, they work in lots of different setups. Some election systems, like condorcet, are very interesting (and some would say fair), and somewhat townsided, but to me it seems as though a voting system like that is quite difficult to analyze correctly (simply because of how many variables come into play).

    I would say pure plurality+majority is not only the best one overall, but also the most balanced voting system. It allows for town to pressure suspects, whilst also making it relatively easy for scum to hide in the voting patterns, and it seems quite intuitive, unlike a Condorcet-style system, which has a depth to it (I think the depth is actually n-1, which is massive compared to plurality which has a depth of 1).

    I do feel like anonymous voting would be interesting if (possibly) quite scum-sided. I fear that anonymous voting wouldn't really be that different from normal voting, as (under normal circumstances) town members have little reason to lie about their vote (and should indeed announce who it is they are voting for) and so would (at least at first) collapse into a public vote. It would only be at the very end that the voting system would start showing its teeth (or in one of those rare setups involving multiple, relatively powerful scum factions).
    "condorcet, are very interesting (and some would say fair), and somewhat townsided"
    I'll go ahead and beat the dead horse and say that condorcet isn't townsided. Majority is mafia sided.

    "[condorcet] is quite difficult to analyze correctly"
    Not true. You literally see everyone's preferences, and good players will say why they have their preferences in that order. If it's too difficult, one could ignore the list, and just look at the top of the list. Now you're back to analyzing the good ol' 'majority lynch' way.

    "[non condorcet setups] allows for town to pressure suspects"
    This implies that Condorcet doesn't pressure suspects. This is not true. It actually allows town to pressure ALL the scummiest people. If people don't feel pressured because they're on the top of the list, they're really just playing stupidly. Which would be equivalent to not bowing down to pressure in majority, even though they're at like L-2 or something. Others may say that the #1 spot moves a lot during the course of a day, but I'd counter and say that the top 3 scummiest people generally will be dead by end of day.

    "[non condorcet setups] make it relatively easy for scum to hide in the voting patterns"
    In other words, hosts need to make it harder for town to vote, which basically sounds like vote disenfranchisement to me. Which really is scum sided. And then people wonder why playing citizen is shit.

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  18. #18

  19. #19

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  21. #21

    Re: Best Voting System

    Wow, that's pretty nice! Bird voting IRL is great and should be applied pretty much everywhere imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  22. #22

  23. #23

    Re: Best Voting System

    I would like to propose another alternative.


    Have 2 plurality + majority at the same time:
    1. plurality + majority from [vote].
    2. plurality + majority from Lock Vote.
    Mention host and say "lock vote Distorted". You have a vote on Distorted that you can't remove, it stays until day is over.

    majority lynch happens whichever of the 2 happens first.
    See, if 10 players in game, 4 of which have lock vote on 1 person, 4 others have each on a different person - then that player with the 4 votes on him gets lynched, even though it was 4 votes, not 6.

    Plurality lynch - the "system" with more votes is the chosen one. In case of tie - lock votes have priority.


    I'm betting I completely screwed up explaining the idea. Facepalm
    Hard to explain..

  24. #24

    Re: Best Voting System

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    I would like to propose another alternative.


    Have 2 plurality + majority at the same time:
    1. plurality + majority from [vote].
    2. plurality + majority from Lock Vote.
    Mention host and say "lock vote Distorted". You have a vote on Distorted that you can't remove, it stays until day is over.

    majority lynch happens whichever of the 2 happens first.
    See, if 10 players in game, 4 of which have lock vote on 1 person, 4 others have each on a different person - then that player with the 4 votes on him gets lynched, even though it was 4 votes, not 6.

    Plurality lynch - the "system" with more votes is the chosen one. In case of tie - lock votes have priority.


    I'm betting I completely screwed up explaining the idea. Facepalm
    Hard to explain..
    Maybe I'm dumb, but what does that actually bring to the game in terms of fun, or improvement in gameplay or mechanics? I don't see it, it just seems... complicated...
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  25. #25

    Re: Best Voting System

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Maybe I'm dumb, but what does that actually bring to the game in terms of fun, or improvement in gameplay or mechanics? I don't see it, it just seems... complicated...
    Some sites have lock votes automatically on LYLO days. First vote is your only vote.
    There is some fun in-game discussion surrounding it.
    Should the most scummy or the most townie person be the first to vote? What's balance between "we trust this guy being town and making the best decision for us" vs "we have to let the most scummy people vote first for more information in hopes he isn't town".
    Obviously having both, normal and lock, at same time defeats that purpose. But it would bring in something extra to work with in the legendary 0 mechanics setup called Black Flag Nightless.

  26. #26

    Re: Best Voting System

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Some sites have lock votes automatically on LYLO days. First vote is your only vote.
    There is some fun in-game discussion surrounding it.
    Should the most scummy or the most townie person be the first to vote? What's balance between "we trust this guy being town and making the best decision for us" vs "we have to let the most scummy people vote first for more information in hopes he isn't town".
    Obviously having both, normal and lock, at same time defeats that purpose. But it would bring in something extra to work with in the legendary 0 mechanics setup called Black Flag Nightless.
    Maybe at LYLO, and even then, I'm not a fan of that system when it's in one of my games (I've already played in a game like that at LYLO on MU). But before LYLO, it cuts a big part of the game off : the ability to change your mind. It's horribly scum-sided, and takes away one of the strongest tools of the Town to pressure people without overcommiting.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  27. #27

    Re: Best Voting System

    I’m going to tryna use majority+trial in my next setup
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    lmao he is the baby in your picture

  28. #28

  29. #29

  30. #30

    Re: Best Voting System

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    How does Trial work in FM in practice?
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...urnabout-Mafia

    That's the only Trial that I know of. That game was insanely fun, btw.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaCucho View Post
    Mallow are you really an anti vaxxer
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    God is a goofy loser.

  31. #31

  32. #32

    Re: Best Voting System

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    How does Trial work in FM in practice?
    no clue, mod-style trial's never been done before I think
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    lmao he is the baby in your picture

 

 

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