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  1. #51

  2. #52

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    In all seriousness, we could have a couple of interesting flourishes in the Beginner's Game, but the whole point is to keep it simple so people don't get overwhelmed and to give them a decent simulation of what a regular S-FM is going to be like. It should be far more about scumhunting and Citizen play than TPR Madness. They will get enough TPR Madness when they sign up for FB's games, lol.

  3. #53

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarknessB View Post
    In all seriousness, we could have a couple of interesting flourishes in the Beginner's Game, but the whole point is to keep it simple so people don't get overwhelmed and to give them a decent simulation of what a regular S-FM is going to be like. It should be far more about scumhunting and Citizen play than TPR Madness. They will get enough TPR Madness when they sign up for FB's games, lol.
    They aren't retarded, nor are they children. It's not their first time playing Mafia if we're pulling them from the Mod.
    People who play the SC2 Mod are used to a high TPR setup. We should keep the same spirit to maintain interest.
    You think someone who plays fast pace Mafia all the time wants to come and play a slow game where no one posts any information because they're not accustomed to so many players having no action? I personally don't think people would have a lot of fun. Would it increase skills? Sure, but that's not what these games are accomplishing. We want people to be interested in what FM has to offer, so a happy medium between SC2 Mafia + Basic Scum Hunting game is definitely the way to go.


    Also, you state you want them to have a decent simulation of what a regular S-FM is. Most regular S-FMs are not a follow the cop basic game with majority Citizens.

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  4. #54

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarknessB View Post
    Most S-FMs have investigative roles. Why would want to simulate something that isn't the case in 99% of games?
    "99%" is a fair bit of an exaggeration. For instance, S-FMs 196, 197, and 199 did not have town investigative roles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  5. #55

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptonic View Post
    They aren't retarded, nor are they children. It's not their first time playing Mafia if we're pulling them from the Mod.
    People who play the SC2 Mod are used to a high TPR setup. We should keep the same spirit to maintain interest.
    You think someone who plays fast pace Mafia all the time wants to come and play a slow game where no one posts any information because they're not accustomed to so many players having no action? I personally don't think people would have a lot of fun. Would it increase skills? Sure, but that's not what these games are accomplishing. We want people to be interested in what FM has to offer, so a happy medium between SC2 Mafia + Basic Scum Hunting game is definitely the way to go.


    Also, you state you want them to have a decent simulation of what a regular S-FM is. Most regular S-FMs are not a follow the cop basic game with majority Citizens.
    There's nothing that says they can't just sign for any other S-FM. What's the point of having a starter game if it's identical to a non-starter game?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  6. #56

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    There's nothing that says they can't just sign for any other S-FM. What's the point of having a starter game if it's identical to a non-starter game?
    196 was experimental by admission, 197 was 100% role randomized and had a naive sheriff, 199 was a trolly game. This is the reason we're having a vanilla queue, lol.

  7. #57

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    There's nothing that says they can't just sign for any other S-FM. What's the point of having a starter game if it's identical to a non-starter game?
    To include only non-veteran FM players, so they don't rely on those types of players to lead discussion, ect.

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  8. #58

  9. #59

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarknessB View Post
    196 was experimental by admission, 197 was 100% role randomized and had a naive sheriff, 199 was a trolly game. This is the reason we're having a vanilla queue, lol.
    They were all fairly good games and within the bounds of typical S-FMs. We're not as addicted to investigative roles as you might believe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  10. #60

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    What exactly is the point of a starter game if it's similar to the mod?

    If they don't like majority-vanilla games, then FM isn't for them. It's that simple. If they cannot adjust to Citizens, they aren't suited to play FMs.

    If someone doesn't teach them the basics so that they know what they are doing (without relying on a bunch of night actions), then player quality is going to drop even more. (thus making people less inclined to play)

    We achieve nothing but a temporary boost in activity with a TPR-fest.

  11. #61

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarknessB View Post
    Holy shit -- I actually agreed with MZ on something?
    It's not identical, so you're both wrong if you agree lol.

    The point isn't to train their Forum Mafia skills, it's to gather interest and ensure they have an enjoyable time.


    What's the point of having a super basic, low action game? How does this benefit a beginner's perception of Forum Mafia?

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  12. #62

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    They were all fairly good games and within the bounds of typical S-FMs. We're not as addicted to investigative roles as you might believe.
    The host admitted that 196 didn't work out amazingly well. 197 was a randomized nightmare with Mafia and SK winning together (trolly end). Much as I'd like to bash you, at least 199 was close. These were not 3 of our best games, lol.

  13. #63

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calix View Post
    What exactly is the point of a starter game if it's similar to the mod?

    If they don't like majority-vanilla games, then FM isn't for them. It's that simple. If they cannot adjust to Citizens, they aren't suited to play FMs.

    If someone doesn't teach them the basics so that they know what they are doing (without relying on a bunch of night actions), then player quality is going to drop even more. (thus making people less inclined to play)

    We achieve nothing but a temporary boost in activity with a TPR-fest.
    That is a piss poor view to have. If they don't view Forum Mafia the way you see it, then they shouldn't play Forum Mafia? The point is to gather new members to increase the demand for ALL setups, not to increase the demand for vanilla setups only.

    We want ANY new FM players, not just ones that want to play Citizen vs Mafioso, with a Doctor here and there.

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  14. #64

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptonic View Post
    It's not identical, so you're both wrong if you agree lol.

    The point isn't to train their Forum Mafia skills, it's to gather interest and ensure they have an enjoyable time.


    What's the point of having a super basic, low action game? How does this benefit a beginner's perception of Forum Mafia?
    We don't need to go super basic or TPR fest. There's a comfortable middle ground here with a fair amount of citizens, something like potentially like the setup you proposed. That middle ground is where S-FMs tend to be, anyways.

    But let's ask the participants of last time's starter game how they felt.
    @PowersThatBe , do you think you would have preferred to play the starter game with more or fewer TPRs? (or about the same?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  15. #65

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Pulling players from the SC2 Mod will be more successful if they game more resembles what they're used to and currently enjoy. After they get interested in Forum Mafia, then they will possibly join a high-vanilla game. Maybe some won't, and will wait until a more experimental setup comes open.

    If we were pulling players from other sites for this game, or people who have never played Mafia... Sure, then Vanilla would be the way to go. But not with the pool we're pulling players from.

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  16. #66

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    We don't need to go super basic or TPR fest. There's a comfortable middle ground here with a fair amount of citizens, something like potentially like the setup you proposed. That middle ground is where S-FMs tend to be, anyways.

    But let's ask the participants of last time's starter game how they felt.
    @PowersThatBe , do you think you would have preferred to play the starter game with more or fewer TPRs? (or about the same?)
    Yea, that's what I'm saying. Did you see the setup I posted? It's like Max 4 TPR, and all 4 of those TPR could be Citizens.

    A 1:1:1 Non-Town:TPR:Citizen setup is balanced

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  17. #67

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    This is @Panda 's calling to redeem herself.... can i mentor?
    Quote Originally Posted by AnassRhamur View Post
    Please don't post in the punished players section if you're not involved. Consider this a warning from Thugnificent. You got one Thug ticket. Collect 3 more of those and i'll have to issue a Thug Infraction. Collect 3 Thug Infractions and you get 1 Thug Misdemeanor Charge.

    Spoiler : :
    Citizen, Agent, Citizen, Vigilante, Citizen, Godfather, Citizen, Citizen, Voter, Elder, Mafioso, BackUpSleuth, Escort, Mafioso, Detective, Citizen, Citizen, Tailor, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, TheJoker, Citizen, LadyGaga, Mafioso, Winston Wolfe, Detective, Citizen, Citizen, Masquerader

  18. #68

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptonic View Post
    That is a piss poor view to have. If they don't view Forum Mafia the way you see it, then they shouldn't play Forum Mafia? The point is to gather new members to increase the demand for ALL setups, not to increase the demand for vanilla setups only.

    We want ANY new FM players, not just ones that want to play Citizen vs Mafioso, with a Doctor here and there.
    You are the one trying to encourage low-quality players to flood the site without them knowing the basics of how to scum-hunt (which is why you'd pick FMs in the first place...), even though that will make future games worse and discourage people from playing.

    None of the regulars are going to want to play with people who don't know how to scum-hunt properly, meaning that they leave for another site, and then the activity drops anyway once most of the new players get bored and go back to the mod. Why would they bother with a two-week FM when they can have a 20-minute mod game?

    Again, your strategy is only going to increase activity in the short-term.

  19. #69

  20. #70

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    We don't need to go super basic or TPR fest. There's a comfortable middle ground here with a fair amount of citizens, something like potentially like the setup you proposed. That middle ground is where S-FMs tend to be, anyways.

    But let's ask the participants of last time's starter game how they felt.
    @PowersThatBe , do you think you would have preferred to play the starter game with more or fewer TPRs? (or about the same?)

    TBH, as being the only other TPR and having NO idea what I was doing... I feel like there should have been at least a min of 3 in the beginner game. I don't know if that would have helped anything, but with 9 players 2 mafia and 2 tprs and 5 citizens just made it so hard to figure everything out for brand new people.

    Some players had more experience from other sites and that allowed them to figure more of the game out.

    I feel like I just incoherently rambled.

  21. #71

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calix View Post
    You are the one trying to encourage low-quality players to flood the site without them knowing the basics of how to scum-hunt (which is why you'd pick FMs in the first place...), even though that will make future games worse and discourage people from playing.

    None of the regulars are going to want to play with people who don't know how to scum-hunt properly, meaning that they leave for another site, and then the activity drops anyway once most of the new players get bored and go back to the mod. Why would they bother with a two-week FM when they can have a 20-minute mod game?

    Again, your strategy is only going to increase activity in the short-term.
    I know this will shock you, but majority of us came to this site for FM from the Mod. The first games we played were not Mafiosox2, Sheriff, Doc, Cit. We played unique and fun setups that got us hooked on Forum Mafia.

    So, please don't insult all of us by saying none of us know how to scum hunt.

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  22. #72

  23. #73

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptonic View Post
    I know this will shock you, but majority of us came to this site for FM from the Mod. The first games we played were not Mafiosox2, Sheriff, Doc, Cit. We played unique and fun setups that got us hooked on Forum Mafia.

    So, please don't insult all of us by saying none of us know how to scum hunt.
    Thank you for ignoring the rest of my post to pretend that I was insulting everyone who has ever played the mod. Pray tell, where do you think I come from that I cannot relate to this experience whatsoever?

    If someone moves from the mod to FMs, their play IS going to be low-quality because they're not used to playing. Giving them a similar setup to one that they can just play in the mod isn't going to encourage them to stick around.

    They will find it far easier to just continue playing the mod if they get the impression that FMs are just a longer version of them.

  24. #74

  25. #75

  26. #76

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calix View Post
    Thank you for ignoring the rest of my post to pretend that I was insulting everyone who has ever played the mod. Pray tell, where do you think I come from that I cannot relate to this experience whatsoever?

    If someone moves from the mod to FMs, their play IS going to be low-quality because they're not used to playing. Giving them a similar setup to one that they can just play in the mod isn't going to encourage them to stick around.

    They will find it far easier to just continue playing the mod if they get the impression that FMs are just a longer version of them.
    Well it's a ridiculous statement to make. People from the mod already know how to scum hunt.
    We're not going on the mod and being like "Hey Man, You sucked shit. You sheeped and lynched 3 fellow Town members and handed the game to the Mafia. Have you ever considered Forum Mafia?". No, we're pulling in people who have at least shown some natural talent. Yes, someone is going to have low-quality FM skills, but they develop it by playing FM.

    Just because a FM setup is similar to a SC2 Mod setup, does not mean the games get played the same. How are you coming to that conclusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  27. #77

  28. #78

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarknessB View Post
    Ever since Day 2 of last game, she's been too busy with her broads in Atlanta.
    you mean she's been busy with her broads playing Animal Crossing.
    Quote Originally Posted by AnassRhamur View Post
    Please don't post in the punished players section if you're not involved. Consider this a warning from Thugnificent. You got one Thug ticket. Collect 3 more of those and i'll have to issue a Thug Infraction. Collect 3 Thug Infractions and you get 1 Thug Misdemeanor Charge.

    Spoiler : :
    Citizen, Agent, Citizen, Vigilante, Citizen, Godfather, Citizen, Citizen, Voter, Elder, Mafioso, BackUpSleuth, Escort, Mafioso, Detective, Citizen, Citizen, Tailor, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, TheJoker, Citizen, LadyGaga, Mafioso, Winston Wolfe, Detective, Citizen, Citizen, Masquerader

  29. #79

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by PowersThatBe View Post
    And I would have preferred a game full of unique roles.
    Do you mean unique in the sense that each person has a power role that they can't, even in theory, share with someone else, or that the roles are less commonly seen on the site?
    Last edited by MattZed; June 8th, 2016 at 10:52 AM. Reason: clarification of question
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  30. #80

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptonic View Post
    I know this will shock you, but majority of us came to this site for FM from the Mod. The first games we played were not Mafiosox2, Sheriff, Doc, Cit. We played unique and fun setups that got us hooked on Forum Mafia.

    So, please don't insult all of us by saying none of us know how to scum hunt.
    With all due respect, some of the mod players are quite a bit less serious than FM players. This isn't necessarily their fault -- it's more that mod games are 1/2 hour long, are automatically set up by the computer / map, and are fairly predictable for the most part. Dicking around in a mod game isn't too much of a big deal -- you're either going to die fast or your night actions will save the day. Given games are overly quickly, no one really cares if you completely crap out in a mod game vs. an FM.

    FM is an entirely different animal and I think there should be an emphasis on recruiting those players who would take well to it. Hardcore lurking, overdependence on night actions, no desire to scumhunt beyond night leads, and excessive trolling are very much negative things that diminish the overall FM experience here. Not saying that FM players aren't guilty of these things themselves, but we should want mod players to realize this isn't just the mod on a forum.

    I myself started on the mod so I'm not denigrating mod players, but suggesting there are many of them who want the short attention span type game. If we don't distinguish FM from that type of experience, the quality of games is going to degrade terribly. It doesn't take many inactive players, trolling players, gamethrowing players, etc. to wreck a game -- often times, just one in fact. I see no reason why we shouldn't be shooting to get the cream of the crop from the mod vs. having tons of players who don't particularly take things seriously or want to play well.

  31. #81

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptonic View Post
    Well it's a ridiculous statement to make. People from the mod already know how to scum hunt.
    We're not going on the mod and being like "Hey Man, You sucked shit. You sheeped and lynched 3 fellow Town members and handed the game to the Mafia. Have you ever considered Forum Mafia?". No, we're pulling in people who have at least shown some natural talent. Yes, someone is going to have low-quality FM skills, but they develop it by playing FM.

    Just because a FM setup is similar to a SC2 Mod setup, does not mean the games get played the same. How are you coming to that conclusion?
    How exactly does this recruitment of the mod players with "natural talent" work? What's the process?

    I came to that conclusion based on my experiences with this site, where too many players focus on trying to solve the game using mechanics, setup speculation, host meta, etc, instead of meshing that with their reads on players.

    This is something that should change in order to improve the quality of ALL games and it would be nice if we could make that a priority with the new players.

  32. #82

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calix View Post
    Romeo & Juliet had unique roles.

    Everyone had claimed by Day 2 and scum conceded...in a Cult setup.
    Our site is absolutely terrible with mass claims -- unique roles are not a good thing and give scum nowhere to hide. Many games with a lot of potential have ended with a boring Day 2 mass claim.

  33. #83

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptonic View Post
    We're not going on the mod and being like "Hey Man, You sucked shit. You sheeped and lynched 3 fellow Town members and handed the game to the Mafia. Have you ever considered Forum Mafia?"
    That's very close to, if not literally, how SuperJack recruits, Crypt -- were you not aware of the "ex-cons for FM" program?

  34. #84

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarknessB View Post
    With all due respect, some of the mod players are quite a bit less serious than FM players. This isn't necessarily their fault -- it's more that mod games are 1/2 hour long, are automatically set up by the computer / map, and are fairly predictable for the most part. Dicking around in a mod game isn't too much of a big deal -- you're either going to die fast or your night actions will save the day. Given games are overly quickly, no one really cares if you completely crap out in a mod game vs. an FM.

    FM is an entirely different animal and I think there should be an emphasis on recruiting those players who would take well to it. Hardcore lurking, overdependence on night actions, no desire to scumhunt beyond night leads, and excessive trolling are very much negative things that diminish the overall FM experience here. Not saying that FM players aren't guilty of these things themselves, but we should want mod players to realize this isn't just the mod on a forum.

    I myself started on the mod so I'm not denigrating mod players, but suggesting there are many of them who want the short attention span type game. If we don't distinguish FM from that type of experience, the quality of games is going to degrade terribly. It doesn't take many inactive players, trolling players, gamethrowing players, etc. to wreck a game -- often times, just one in fact. I see no reason why we shouldn't be shooting to get the cream of the crop from the mod vs. having tons of players who don't particularly take things seriously or want to play well.
    Yes, that's what I'm saying. We're not recruiting pure trolls, or idiots who don't know how to play. We go out of our way to invite people who have shown promise as an FM player.

    I'm not saying to have a game identical to SC2 Mod, I'm saying give it a similar feel. Making them more comfortable with what they're doing, posting more. They are playing something similar to something that are confirmed to enjoy. I've never once stated to have a mass TPR game, but FM can be fun, balanced, and require scum hunting and NOT be 50 Citizens.

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  35. #85

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptonic View Post
    Epic mafia is not exactly the gold standard IMO.
    Mafia Record:
    Spoiler : On Site/Universal Total :
    ..Total: 5/9 = 55.6% | 61/104 = 58.3%..
    ...Town: 3/5 = 60% | 42/76 = 55.3%...
    ....Mafia: 0/2 = 0% | 14/23 = 60.9%....
    .....3P: 1/1 = 100% | 3P: 3/5 = 60%.....
    My advice on Mafia play:
    Get the Led Out

  36. #86

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calix View Post
    How exactly does this recruitment of the mod players with "natural talent" work? What's the process?

    I came to that conclusion based on my experiences with this site, where too many players focus on trying to solve the game using mechanics, setup speculation, host meta, etc, instead of meshing that with their reads on players.

    This is something that should change in order to improve the quality of ALL games and it would be nice if we could make that a priority with the new players.
    You play with people. You are impressed with their play, their actions, ect. You initiate a conversation with them and invite them to play.

    Yes, improving the quality of games is definitely a priority, but it is not the purpose of something like this. It is to increase overall traffic.


    Please look @ the setup I posted and explain to me how a setup like that would discourage scum hunting.

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  37. #87

  38. #88

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quick View Post
    Epic mafia is not exactly the gold standard IMO.
    Obviously not, but the numbers are fairly accurate when you're working with such a large survey size.

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  39. #89

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarknessB View Post
    Our site is absolutely terrible with mass claims -- unique roles are not a good thing and give scum nowhere to hide. Many games with a lot of potential have ended with a boring Day 2 mass claim.
    Agreed. You'll get a few Townies that will literally fake claim because logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  40. #90

  41. #91

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Then I implore someone to bring a game suitable for newbies yet unique and fun.
    Sheriff
    Citizen
    Citizen
    Citizen
    Citizen
    Citizen
    Citizen

    Mafioso
    Mafioso


    This setup takes the most skill of What is actually itt IMO.


    As an aside:
    1) adding an uber complicated setup is not newbie friendly
    2) In my experience Mafia have a better chance of winning in a game with beginners.
    Mafia Record:
    Spoiler : On Site/Universal Total :
    ..Total: 5/9 = 55.6% | 61/104 = 58.3%..
    ...Town: 3/5 = 60% | 42/76 = 55.3%...
    ....Mafia: 0/2 = 0% | 14/23 = 60.9%....
    .....3P: 1/1 = 100% | 3P: 3/5 = 60%.....
    My advice on Mafia play:
    Get the Led Out

  42. #92

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptonic View Post
    You play with people. You are impressed with their play, their actions, ect. You initiate a conversation with them and invite them to play.

    Yes, improving the quality of games is definitely a priority, but it is not the purpose of something like this. It is to increase overall traffic.


    Please look @ the setup I posted and explain to me how a setup like that would discourage scum hunting.
    I would think most of us would be concerned with quality over quantity though, given the size of most S-FMs and fact that it can only take one bad apple to ruin the entire bunch / an entire game. Perhaps part of that is greater policing by hosts, FM staff, and the community itself to discourage and / or penalize problematic behavior. I just feel like it's very easy for new players to not get it, not care that they are wrecking games with the behavior, and leave a string of dead slots before they lose interest in the game.

    We obviously can't prevent people from signing for games, but I'd argue hosts, the FM staff, and the community should play a larger role in making sure that doesn't happen. As it is, I feel like everyone (especially hosts and FM staff) has an overly laissez-faire attitude and let the problem players fester until dedicated community members leave out of frustration over the decreased quality of play / unaddressed issues in games. I realize this is a bit of a tangent, but the point is related in terms of quality > quantity IMO.
    Last edited by DarknessB; June 8th, 2016 at 11:12 AM.

  43. #93

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quick View Post
    Sheriff
    Citizen
    Citizen
    Citizen
    Citizen
    Citizen
    Citizen

    Mafioso
    Mafioso


    This setup takes the most skill of What is actually itt IMO.


    As an aside:
    1) adding an uber complicated setup is not newbie friendly
    2) In my experience Mafia have a better chance of winning in a game with beginners.
    This is basically Camp Mafia without the tied lynch mechanic. I agree with Crypt that most newbies would find it excessively flat though and we should strive to be a little more lively in terms of fostering longer term interest in the game. On the other hand, I agree with Quick that the Mafia stand a better shot in beginner games because no one knows how to scumhunt and they are informed. Also, lurkers are often given a pass in beginner games because people aren't confident enough to push them.

  44. #94

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Cryptonic, I still think your favourite 7-player setup is a better option. I would not risk skewing the odds of a Town: Mafia win too much in one direction.

    If this setup was used, I don't agree with having a Neutral involved for a first game, given that it means the Mafia can also scum-hunt and thus takes away a part of scum-hunting. (the fact that Mafia are informed and Town are not)

    Makes the game too swingy for my liking.

    I like Quick's setup but I do not think that even the "veterans" on this site know what the optimal strategies for that kind of game are, so giving it to new mod players would be a nightmare.

    Guess I might use it for the Vanilla S-FM queue though.

  45. #95

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarknessB View Post
    I would think most of us would be concerned with quality over quantity though, given the size of most S-FMs and fact that it can only take one bad apple to ruin the entire bunch / an entire game. Perhaps part of that is greater policing by hosts, FM staff, and the community itself to discourage and / or penalize problematic behavior. I just feel like it's very easy for new players to not get it, not care that they are wrecking games with the behavior, and leave a string of dead slots before they lose interest in the game.

    We obviously can't prevent people from signing for games, but I'd argue hosts, the FM staff, and the community should play a larger role in making sure that doesn't happen. As it is, I feel like everyone has an overly laissez-faire attitude and let the problem players fester until dedicated community members leave out of frustration over the decreased quality of play. I realize this is a bit of a tangent, but the point is related in terms of quality > quantity IMO.
    I don't understand the correlation between people who ruin games and having a setup with fewer Citizens. Am I missing something?

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  46. #96

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptonic View Post
    Obviously not, but the numbers are fairly accurate when you're working with such a large survey size.
    My point is, if you are going to take from a source where quality is not primary, what is even the point?
    Mafia Record:
    Spoiler : On Site/Universal Total :
    ..Total: 5/9 = 55.6% | 61/104 = 58.3%..
    ...Town: 3/5 = 60% | 42/76 = 55.3%...
    ....Mafia: 0/2 = 0% | 14/23 = 60.9%....
    .....3P: 1/1 = 100% | 3P: 3/5 = 60%.....
    My advice on Mafia play:
    Get the Led Out

  47. #97

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    This thread is going off on way too many tangents. The matter at hand is the next starter game.

    This is SC2 Mafia. Our main player draw is going to be players from the mod. The point of the starter game is to draw them in, get them involved in FM, and hopefully teach them a thing or two about the differences between the mod and FM. The question to be answered is: what setup best optimizes these three goals?

    Unknown and PTB, two players from the previous start game, have commented that they wouldn't have preferred an overly simple a game. While a simple game may be good for improving skills, it likely doesn't do well on the first two goals of drawing players and getting them involved.

    Cryptonic posted a very nice setup, and what to do about this setup should be the next thing to discuss:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptonic View Post
    Hidden Mafia
    Hidden Mafia


    Hidden Neutral

    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Citizen
    Citizen
    Citizen


    Possible Hidden Mafia: Actress, Consigliere, Consort, Drug Dealer, Janitor, Mafioso, Tailor.
    Possible Hidden Neutral: Amnesiac, Executioner, Jester, Student, Survivor.
    Possible Hidden Town: Architect, Blacksmith, Bodyguard, Bus Driver, Citizen, Detective, Doctor, Escort, Mason, Mayor, Sheriff, Veteran, Vigilante.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  48. #98

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quick View Post
    My point is, if you are going to take from a source where quality is not primary, what is even the point?
    Because both sides are of the same quality. When something has been played that many times, you have such a decent sample that the numbers are accurate regardless of skill level skew of a few hundred games.

    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Blue Masquerader View Post
    Hey moron. shut the fuck up or I will shut you up, k? I'm not the person your going to insult and live happily ever after. K? Understand that,

  49. #99

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarknessB View Post
    This is basically Camp Mafia without the tied lynch mechanic. I agree with Crypt that most newbies would find it excessively flat though and we should strive to be a little more lively in terms of fostering longer term interest in the game. On the other hand, I agree with Quick that the Mafia stand a better shot in beginner games because no one knows how to scumhunt and they are informed. Also, lurkers are often given a pass in beginner games because people aren't confident enough to push them.
    I see your point on making the game "interesting" for newbies, but newbies are not going to think "this game didn't have enough PR to be fun for me." On top of that, why add more swing to a mafia game where accurate NA is a bigger deal for a newbie game?
    Mafia Record:
    Spoiler : On Site/Universal Total :
    ..Total: 5/9 = 55.6% | 61/104 = 58.3%..
    ...Town: 3/5 = 60% | 42/76 = 55.3%...
    ....Mafia: 0/2 = 0% | 14/23 = 60.9%....
    .....3P: 1/1 = 100% | 3P: 3/5 = 60%.....
    My advice on Mafia play:
    Get the Led Out

  50. #100

    Re: Setup Discussion for Starter Game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptonic View Post
    I don't understand the correlation between people who ruin games and having a setup with fewer Citizens. Am I missing something?
    I was addressing more your point about the types of players that we recruit from the mod and needing to be very careful and deliberate about who we encourage to give FM a shot. It really only takes one player to ruin games and players from the outside who aren't familiar with our customs are often more likely to be that type of disruptive person.

    The recruiting side is what relates to this discussion -- in the past, players with a heavy presence on the mod's ban list have been recruited to play FM by some members of the community, and I'd argue we need to very careful to ensure those players do not carry that behavior over to FM games, as has occurred in some cases.

 

 

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