S-FM 186: Firebringer's Improvised Game

[Hell Frog]

Christ, you're once again not understanding me. Is it really that fucking hard? You compared my actions, to the actions of someone that, "from your point of view" is confirmed town, rather than your own whilst saying it was scummy, when you literally are doing the same thing, but far worse, and you're using that to make me out to be scum as evidenced by the line "So what I am hearing is that you are scum with Orpz?"

See the whole situation with blue.

Yet you were pointing it out in a way by saying "it's a bad lynch." Almost like you knew what was coming afterwards, but yet despite that... you still hammered him. YOU HAMMERED HIM. I don't care what your reason is, you go around telling people he's bad, hammer him, and then go around saying "I told you so"??? No, that's scum who just wants to see a lynch happen but wants to "claim he knew it all along." If you really did, then there is NO reason that YOU should have hammered.

You are working under the assumption we have a vig, we very well might not. Stop working under that assumption, work under the assumption that all we have is a lynch until such is proven otherwise.

"If you are town, then stop analyzing me and analyzing someone else, because town wouldn't ever analyze me."

That's basically what you just said, because I've been analyzing this whole time, just on you.

Ok, We have to agree to disagree on a few points because this is going nowhere. But I see a hard effort on your part to 'Paint my actions as scummy' as opposed to actually analyzing my actions to read my alignment. I do not assume we have a vig but I generally try to look at whats possible/probable and play to the best of my ability to keep those things in mind. I would put more time into this response but I am kinda feeling lazy now so fuck it

[TheDarkestLight]

we have 3 resolved villagers - if you include yourself as a villager and can prove it, it's beyond GG. the trololol is real for scum atm.

Three resolved villagers, but you aren't resolved at all, neither is Calette, or Empathy.

At this point, literally no one is resolved and you're flat out just playing poorly.

[Hell Frog]

I said "I'd boycott the site" in one or two sentences and then proceeded to talk about a LOT of other controversial, relevant things, but that's your main reason for not continuing to talk with me? Personally, I prefer Salmon and Yellowtail over Herring.

Since you enjoyed mentioning logical fallacies, you should also know that they weaken your argument.
So what I'm saying is, this is even less of an argument than my reads list, and I purposely designed that to be all looks.

t. Orpz

Sure, Whatever, Still don't know why I put any effort into the conversation with you to begin with. Probably was a waste of time.

[TheDarkestLight]

Ok, We have to agree to disagree on a few points because this is going nowhere. But I see a hard effort on your part to 'Paint my actions as scummy' as opposed to actually analyzing my actions to read my alignment. I do not assume we have a vig but I generally try to look at whats possible/probable and play to the best of my ability to keep those things in mind. I would put more time into this response but I am kinda feeling lazy now so fuck it

Strong reasoning. Laziness.

[Hell Frog]

Ok, We have to agree to disagree on a few points because this is going nowhere. But I see a hard effort on your part to 'Paint my actions as scummy' as opposed to actually analyzing my actions to read my alignment. I do not assume we have a vig but I generally try to look at whats possible/probable and play to the best of my ability to keep those things in mind. I would put more time into this response but I am kinda feeling lazy now so fuck it

There's literally no need. mechanically the game is resolved. TPRs check in the POE and defend outside of POE: Hell Frog, Calette, Empathy cleared

Just lock the game. Let's play a bigger game after this

[Hell Frog]

I've worked through vig options, it's +EV to shoot within the POE if you are a vig in the POE, but the risk is nuts high. Wait a night IMO. Obviously I have mechanical resolves, but because the town flip we cannot risk a lynch save leaning on a neut to be townsiding.

+EV = + expected value, in other words, good odds of shooting correctly within the POE if you're town, but you could fuck over a locked game pending invest actions. Wait a day, this game was over before it started.

I want to suggest a minimash if you guys are down for a new type of big game after this. FB's setup ideas are awesome, but this game is over. Neutral should side with town if they can and announce tonight.

[TheDarkestLight]

There's literally no need. mechanically the game is resolved. TPRs check in the POE and defend outside of POE: Hell Frog, Calette, Empathy cleared

Just lock the game. Let's play a bigger game after this

You are not confirmed, Calette is not confirmed, Empathy is not confirmed. Your desire to say so is horrendously scummy.

[Hell Frog]

Strong reasoning. Laziness.

Frog is on now. I am Helz.

But yeah- Run around in circles enough and you get tired. Objectively we talked quite a bit and accomplished very little. I still scum read you (With reasoning). You still scum read me (Kinda sorta with reasoning) and we are not getting to a point of understanding or agreeing with etch others perspectives.

[TheDarkestLight]

I've worked through vig options, it's +EV to shoot within the POE if you are a vig in the POE, but the risk is nuts high. Wait a night IMO. Obviously I have mechanical resolves, but because the town flip we cannot risk a lynch save leaning on a neut to be townsiding.

+EV = + expected value, in other words, good odds of shooting correctly within the POE if you're town, but you could fuck over a locked game pending invest actions. Wait a day, this game was over before it started.

I want to suggest a minimash if you guys are down for a new type of big game after this. FB's setup ideas are awesome, but this game is over. Neutral should side with town if they can and announce tonight.

Not to mention your desire to fucking direct night kills, yes, keep being scum sir, try your best to direct kills away from you.

It's pathetic how people don't seem to notice this.

[Hell Frog]

You are not confirmed, Calette is not confirmed, Empathy is not confirmed. Your desire to say so is horrendously scummy.

I honestly dont give a fuck. If I flip, Calette is cleared in 80%+ of cases. Lynch within POE, should be GG.

[TheDarkestLight]

I honestly dont give a fuck. If I flip, Calette is cleared in 80%+ of cases. Lynch within POE, should be GG.

Alright, let's see you flip then.

[Hell Frog]

Not to mention your desire to fucking direct night kills, yes, keep being scum sir, try your best to direct kills away from you.

It's pathetic how people don't seem to notice this.

0_o

It's objectively +EV to vig shot within the POE as town vig 0_0

It's risky as fuck considering town flip.

I'm drunk as a skunk and this game should be locked. If you're town, just take the win. Otherwise, flail hard.

[TheDarkestLight]

0_o

It's objectively +EV to vig shot within the POE as town vig 0_0

It's risky as fuck considering town flip.

I'm drunk as a skunk and this game should be locked. If you're town, just take the win. Otherwise, flail hard.

It's not locked. No one should see you as confirmed town, you're not. Calette is not because you aren't, and Empathy sure as hell isn't.

The fact you keep insisting is making you even scummier.

[Hell Frog]

Alright, let's see you flip then.

There's only 4 people who can flip tonight. We're a top candidate, but if we flip calette is cleared. If calette flips, we're cleared. Empathy is mechanically town, and Orpz has to prove his alliance via role. It's a 4 kill POE. We're the factional kill 25-50% of the time.

[Nicolas Cage]

You all have been invited to a party tonight.

This is the lamest party I've ever seen... Where's the booze? The Ladies?!

Nicky Boy needs his Fix!

[Nicolas Cage]

Also I swear I'll start contributing to this convo later... Just think we needed that.

Party hard, ladies and gents!

[Hell Frog]

It's not locked. No one should see you as confirmed town, you're not. Calette is not because you aren't, and Empathy sure as hell isn't.

The fact you keep insisting is making you even scummier.

uugh dude. Empathy is mechanically locked pending nicolas cage-empathy. And I've read nicolas cage well enough to know he could end you. Look at genuine votes, empathy is lock cleared. Lmfao.

[Hell Frog]

Lets be honest here. We did not exactly play to survive into the late game. Were probably going to die tonight anyways because we nailed OrpZedWorlds to the fucking wall like a beast. I am going to give you hell post game if you pop as well from our push (In the form of 'I told you so' because LOL). Drinks are kinda kicking in now so if you want a straight up honest answer just ask for it. My give a fuck is circling the toilet : )

-Helz

[Hell Frog]

im drunk as fuck now too -frog

anything goes. game is locked. lmfao. #wolfflail

[OrpZedWorlds]

Ok, We have to agree to disagree on a few points because this is going nowhere. But I see a hard effort on your part to 'Paint my actions as scummy' as opposed to actually analyzing my actions to read my alignment. I do not assume we have a vig but I generally try to look at whats possible/probable and play to the best of my ability to keep those things in mind. I would put more time into this response but I am kinda feeling lazy now so fuck it

TDL had a completely valid point: You opposed the Mike lynch as low-hanging fruit, but then you hammered at last minute when it seemed we just might let it float by. You get to follow that up by saying "I told you so?" You don't get to call us on anything when you're the hammer voter.

We're 5v2v1 right now, likely 4v2v1 in the morning. Scum only needs one more mislynch, and you're going for the easiest target you can paint. We were an uncoordinated hydra D1, and now you're just taking the easy pickings. "I told you so" = "You should have listened to me and lynched the Orpz hydra... let's do that now." Following up on your first readwall and just sticking to it is the easiest thing you can go for. I know both of you are better players as town than to never deviate from an initial readwall.

And then there's this:

There's literally no need. mechanically the game is resolved. TPRs check in the POE and defend outside of POE: Hell Frog, Calette, Empathy cleared

Just lock the game. Let's play a bigger game after this

Your "clears" are yourself, someone your rolecard allegedly cleared, and then the person no one in their right mind would think was a scum claiming miller. And then, you act surprised people haven't come to your same conclusion, which uses two clears that no one other than you could even in principal have?

The game isn't "locked" and you know it. If you were town, you'd have realized that even if your suspicions were right, you need to convince the rest of the town that your information is valid. Instead, you're just sitting here acting as if Fire himself told everyone you and Calette were town and that EVERYONE SHOULD STOP TRYING. Seriously, what? NIGHT 1 has hardly begun, and you're trying to talk people out of trying to play D2. There is no way this is town Helz/Frog.

-Matt

[TheDarkestLight]

There's only 4 people who can flip tonight. We're a top candidate, but if we flip calette is cleared. If calette flips, we're cleared. Empathy is mechanically town, and Orpz has to prove his alliance via role. It's a 4 kill POE. We're the factional kill 25-50% of the time.

If Calette flips town, you ARE NOT cleared unless somehow their role says that you are.

Reasoning being? Because of course the scum will know who to call Town. A scum will know exactly who to call town and then "claim" that they knew from before.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Calette showed up dead and you used it as some pathetic excuse to clear yourself.

[Hell Frog]

TDL had a completely valid point: You opposed the Mike lynch as low-hanging fruit, but then you hammered at last minute when it seemed we just might let it float by. You get to follow that up by saying "I told you so?" You don't get to call us on anything when you're the hammer voter.

We're 5v2v1 right now, likely 4v2v1 in the morning. Scum only needs one more mislynch, and you're going for the easiest target you can paint. We were an uncoordinated hydra D1, and now you're just taking the easy pickings. "I told you so" = "You should have listened to me and lynched the Orpz hydra... let's do that now." Following up on your first readwall and just sticking to it is the easiest thing you can go for. I know both of you are better players as town than to never deviate from an initial readwall.

And then there's this:


Your "clears" are yourself, someone your rolecard allegedly cleared, and then the person no one in their right mind would think was a scum claiming miller. And then, you act surprised people haven't come to your same conclusion, which uses two clears that no one other than you could even in principal have?

The game isn't "locked" and you know it. If you were town, you'd have realized that even if your suspicions were right, you need to convince the rest of the town that your information is valid. Instead, you're just sitting here acting as if Fire himself told everyone you and Calette were town and that EVERYONE SHOULD STOP TRYING. Seriously, what? NIGHT 1 has hardly begun, and you're trying to talk people out of trying to play D2. There is no way this is town Helz/Frog.

-Matt

TLDR - flail hard

[Empathy17]

TDL are we town or not?

[TheDarkestLight]

TLDR - flail hard

A sum up of Frog's posts.

"I'm confirmed town, and so is Calette and Empathy. This game is instantly locked and anyone who disagrees with me is both stupid and scum."

Literally nothing else ALL GAME LONG.

[OrpZedWorlds]

TLDR - flail hard

And again, in addition to everything else, you have failed to address the fact that you "told us so" about a train you HAMMERED.

-Matt

[TheDarkestLight]

TDL are we town or not?

Based on your vote to suddenly put me on L-1 before I could even respond, you're looking decently scummy. Not as scummy as Mister Frog though.

[OrpZedWorlds]

Based on your vote to suddenly put me on L-1 before I could even respond, you're looking decently scummy. Not as scummy as Mister Frog though.

The miller call doesn't influence your decision more than a D1 vote?

-Matt

[Empathy17]

It's not locked. No one should see you as confirmed town, you're not. Calette is not because you aren't, and Empathy sure as hell isn't.

The fact you keep insisting is making you even scummier.

We are a miller with a flipped role showing they can check alignment. Mechanically, we are cleared. The fact that you are throwing doubt on this is scummy.

Also, make up your mind on your read on us. You've been calling us both town and scum all game and it's not a clear thought process.

~SW

[Nicolas Cage]

im drunk as fuck now too -frog

anything goes. game is locked. lmfao. #wolfflail

You''re both drinking and there is no sc2arcade going! well. Shame on you.

[Spearheading Female Tank]

This is the lamest party I've ever seen... Where's the booze? The Ladies?!

We're here in the bedroom while the scum pretend they aren't scum in the living room.

By the by, I'm having some real booze (and hopefully some real ladies) tonight, and then I'll be out for most of the day tomorrow, so I'll just leave this here:
Tomorrow's lynch should be Calette.
Calette and Hell Frog will try to paint OrpZedWorlds as the best lynch target, due to the lies. OrpZedWorlds are the neutral. Don't allow them to manipulate you with that.

Optionally, if we have a Vig, Calette could use a bullet between their eyes.
If we have a roleblocker, go for Hell Frog.

We should be able to win either way, but having a useful flip tonight would certainly help.

Those are my suggestions. Do whatever the fuck you want as long as you're dancing and drinking.

---

I'll leave you in the hands of GameFreak and Paladin.
Have a good weekend.

[TheDarkestLight]

We are a miller with a flipped role showing they can check alignment. Mechanically, we are cleared. The fact that you are throwing doubt on this is scummy.

Also, make up your mind on your read on us. You've been calling us both town and scum all game and it's not a clear thought process.

~SW

Yeah, I don't see where some flipped role claimed to have cleared you, but perhaps I skimmed it? Maybe if you could link me to the posts post(s)?

Also, my read flipped only once, and it was based on actions.

[Nicolas Cage]

You''re both drinking and there is no sc2arcade going! well. Shame on you.

Shame on you actually. You have pending questions from your other head in skype that you aren't answering.

Wake up, please. This party is still going!

[Empathy17]

Based on your vote to suddenly put me on L-1 before I could even respond, you're looking decently scummy. Not as scummy as Mister Frog though.

That's a town move from us.

~SilverWolf

[OrpZedWorlds]

Reading through.

~deathworlds

[Empathy17]

Yeah, I don't see where some flipped role claimed to have cleared you, but perhaps I skimmed it? Maybe if you could link me to the posts post(s)?

Also, my read flipped only once, and it was based on actions.

Yeah, Funcall has a role that can check alignment. We are a miller which is a direct counter to that. It's a negative utility town role. That's what a miller is. It's what we are. We claimed it in our very first post D1 for exactly this reason.

Understand? We are mechanically cleared town.

~SW

[TheDarkestLight]

That's a town move from us.

~SilverWolf

Can I get the link to said posts?

And I don't know you specifically, so forgive me for not metaing you, as this is my first game with you I believe.

But that's not going to change my read alone, gonna need to see those posts that "cleared" you.

[TheDarkestLight]

Yeah, Funcall has a role that can check alignment. We are a miller which is a direct counter to that. It's a negative utility town role. That's what a miller is. It's what we are. We claimed it in our very first post D1 for exactly this reason.

Understand? We are mechanically cleared town.

~SW

You aren't necessarily though. Just because there is an investigative role doesn't mean there is a Miller. Yes, a Miller suggests there is an investigative, but like I just said, not vice versa.

Yes, you claimed it, however it could still be a lie.

Here I was thinking somehow Funcall leaked a result on you? But apparently that wasn't the case. Yes, Miller is a decently townish claim, yet considering other actions and the fact I'm not metaing you, it seems likely to be falsified.

[OrpZedWorlds]

Yeah, Funcall has a role that can check alignment. We are a miller which is a direct counter to that. It's a negative utility town role. That's what a miller is. It's what we are. We claimed it in our very first post D1 for exactly this reason.

Understand? We are mechanically cleared town.

~SW

Please explain how you are mechanically cleared town.

Using your logic, scum could easily claim miller and get away with it.

~deathworlds

[OrpZedWorlds]

I'll safely say that TDL and Hell Frog are most definitely not the same alignment.

TDL has transitioned to a Town read in my eyes.
Hell Frog is a heavy scum read, mostly for his repetitive "IM TOWN, XXX YYY AND ZZZ ARE SCUM, GG NO RE" Posts.
Empathy17 is leaning closer to null, however is still on the scum side of the spectrum for me.

~deathworlds

[Orpz]

Sure, Whatever, Still don't know why I put any effort into the conversation with you to begin with. Probably was a waste of time.

Like I said, you really should have gone for an easier target to try to push your mislynch.

t. Orpz

[OrpZedWorlds]

And again, in addition to everything else, you have failed to address the fact that you "told us so" about a train you HAMMERED.

-Matt

I would very much like Hell Frog to answer this.

[OrpZedWorlds]

I would very much like Hell Frog to answer this.

~deathworlds

[OrpZedWorlds]

Okay I'm logging out of my main until this game ends. Mattzed is temporarily in charge of the entire section.

t. Orpz

[Empathy17]

Can I get the link to said posts?

And I don't know you specifically, so forgive me for not metaing you, as this is my first game with you I believe.

But that's not going to change my read alone, gonna need to see those posts that "cleared" you.

You know ika right? I've played a game on this site. I can't remember the name of it. I think Flashpoint.

The posts that clear us is our very first post in the game we make post 1 D1 claiming miller and the flip of someone who can investigate for alignment. I already explained why it's a dumb move for scum to make given the negative attention we got. We also explained exactly how it works via our rolecard. I can pull those posts up in a separate post.

~SW

[Empathy17]

Please explain how you are mechanically cleared town.

Using your logic, scum could easily claim miller and get away with it.

~deathworlds

I've already explained this. I'm not gonna repeat myself over and over. Read my posts.

~SW

[TheDarkestLight]

You know ika right? I've played a game on this site. I can't remember the name of it. I think Flashpoint.

The posts that clear us is our very first post in the game we make post 1 D1 claiming miller and the flip of someone who can investigate for alignment. I already explained why it's a dumb move for scum to make given the negative attention we got. We also explained exactly how it works via our rolecard. I can pull those posts up in a separate post.

~SW

Yet it could easily be seen as WIFOM, and yes I know ika, and no I was not in Flashpoint.

Yet your explanation is one of the reasons why I scum read Calette and Frog more than you, as I saw it as unlikely, but still possible.

[Empathy17]

just read our post in thread. we were aming one and it got lost adn we are not recreating an hrs worth of work

[Hell Frog]

I would very much like Hell Frog to answer this.

Sure. Give me a second. Doing stuffs and shit but I will respond with quotes even though I think its a retarded point

[Hell Frog]

Btw. Helz here

[Hell Frog]

1 hour. I'll hammer the lynchbait.

Intent to hammer Funcall.

Nothing else to say really, I'd be happy to hammer a well.

2 people willing to hammer when the slot is at L1

-vote Funcall

No can do. Hammer time!

t. Orpz

Slot unvoted then fake hammered expressing interest in hammering. I read this and was correct as shown here

[3/31/2016 8:34:20 PM] MZ: Hamemring now.
[3/31/2016 8:35:08 PM] me: LOL
[3/31/2016 8:35:12 PM] MZ: Damn, Frog beat me
[3/31/2016 8:35:19 PM] me: Hell Frog cucked both you and Calette
[3/31/2016 8:35:35 PM] MZ: This is what I get for waiting 20 seconds to let you object.
[3/31/2016 8:35:46 PM] me: I had no objections
[3/31/2016 8:35:56 PM] MZ: YOU DIDN’T SAY THAT.

And here I hammer

Nah. You guys dont get to do something fucking retarded like lynch an AFK and pretend its ok because you waited a few more minutes. Fuck that dumb shit


HAMMMAAAAAHHHHH JACKKKKEEDDDDD

-vote FunCall

One thing I love about the hammer is that post is what is seen by everyone that looks at the forum until chat opens again. I saw that the slot was going to be hammered no matter what even if 1 player backed out and I jumped on it with less than 5 mins left in the day. Reference my previous games and you will find I sometimes go agro on everyone for lynches even if they flip scum when its a shit play. This was 100% a fucking terrible play regardless of what the flip was and I wanted to make the town feel straight up ashamed of themselves for doing this bullshit. Totally irrelevant of if it flipped scum or not it was shit and I am pissed about it. Even if that slot flipped scum I would be pissed about it. This is not how town should lynch players. The entire concept of a D1 lynch is based on good players ability to identify scum tells D1 or information gained from the lynch to be used in later days. The former was not the case what so ever at all and the ladder is only really true in larger games AND if players give reasoning with their votes.

So yeah. Fuck that lynch and I stole that fucking hammer : )