Looking for an interesting Cult setup (or the reasons why you don't like Cult)

**PIayer** · January 29th, 2016, 02:09 PM

Hey there,

Wiki didn't help, so I come here to share throughs about a Cult setup worth saving.

I for one really like Cult as it bring a lot of mindgames and discussions, but I've find most people are absolute with Cult setup, they either love it or hate it. And many seems to not like it. (for the record, I play in public mode)

Anyway, I really look forward to a balanced, interesting & fun Cult save to slot save. Facts I've gathered so far:
- Most people hate to be Masons if cult is not 100% confirmed, sometimes even if confirmed
- Most people prefer SK over Arso & MM
- Most people find 2 auditors is boring but 0 is ackward in a cult save
- Town tend to suck, setup need to be town-friendly to a certain extend

And the not-so-stable homebrew setup I got so far:

Spoiler : Save :

This said, I ask YOU being here, what do you think about Cult in general. Have you a cult setup you like ? What would you do & what would you dodge in a cult setup? What options for Cult? Is Auditors really mandatory in Cult setups and why? What killing neutral options? Any suggestion you got about Cult.

Also, if you don't like cult, I'm also looking for your opinions on why. I'm always alright when people want to repick from Cult save as it's controversial, but the "Setting the game" chat is no place for arguments, so here it is.

Thanks for reading, & looking for feedback dear townies =).

**Yukitaka Oni** · January 29th, 2016, 02:13 PM

Doesn't need to have mason leader to deal with cult, Doctor with prevent cul convert and bodyguard to prevent cult convert and everything will be fine and give sheriff back full power or your save will be unstable

**Cryptonic** · January 29th, 2016, 02:51 PM

Town loses up to 3 players a night with Mafia, Cult AND Neutral killer. That's pretty brutal. Town can lose after n2 if 6 diff town get hit.

Also, Auditor doesn't need to be in a Cult save, IDK how 0 makes it awkward. Cult was fine before Auditor was ever implemented lol.

I would recommend lowering the number of Mafia, or completely removing them. If your setup is focusing on Cult, then Cult should be Town's biggest threat. Also, you need more Town Random. All you basically need is Town to do a role call, and lynch duplicate roles w/ how your setup is. I don't see that setup having a Town Win, basically ever. Unless scum implodes.

Cultist
Cultist
Serial Killer
Neutral Benign
Sheriff
Doctor
Town Government
Town Investigative
Town Protective
Town Killing
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random

^I'd go for something like that personally. Cult has 2 members so they're not fucked n1, and cause game to be pointless. Mason Leader not confirmed, cause where is the fun in that. Serial Killer for that confirmed 1 KPN & immunity prevents conversion. More Town Random = More Room for SK & Cult to hide = more need to people to think = more fun. Also, Less kills = longer game = more need to think = more fun.
You'll want Town killing roles have a small chance to appear from Random (maybe even excluded), cause you don't want to have 6 Jailors in a game, ect.

**Yukitaka Oni** · January 29th, 2016, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Cryptonic

Town loses up to 3 players a night with Mafia, Cult AND Neutral killer. That's pretty brutal. Town can lose after n2 if 6 diff town get hit.

Also, Auditor doesn't need to be in a Cult save, IDK how 0 makes it awkward. Cult was fine before Auditor was ever implemented lol.

I would recommend lowering the number of Mafia, or completely removing them. If your setup is focusing on Cult, then Cult should be Town's biggest threat. Also, you need more Town Random. All you basically need is Town to do a role call, and lynch duplicate roles w/ how your setup is. I don't see that setup having a Town Win, basically ever. Unless scum implodes.

Cultist
Cultist
Serial Killer
Neutral Benign
Sheriff
Doctor
Town Government
Town Investigative
Town Protective
Town Killing
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random

^I'd go for something like that personally. Cult has 2 members so they're not fucked n1, and cause game to be pointless. Mason Leader not confirmed, cause where is the fun in that. Serial Killer for that confirmed 1 KPN & immunity prevents conversion. More Town Random = More Room for SK & Cult to hide = more need to people to think = more fun. Also, Less kills = longer game = more need to think = more fun.
You'll want Town killing roles have a small chance to appear from Random (maybe even excluded), cause you don't want to have 6 Jailors in a game, ect.

confirmed balance v)o.o)>!

**PIayer** · January 29th, 2016, 03:54 PM

Thanks for feedback you two.

@Yukitaka Alright for the ML, but isn't the Sheriff too powerful if he can even detect GF ? Or if I do how you say, I should disable Sheriff from Rand investigative.

@Cryptonic: Yeah setup's hard for town, but in practice town won 2 of 3 games I ran with this setup (cult won 3rd). Also Arso can't kill a player a night, often doused people will die before ignition. But you're right, if killer is SK/MM it can turn into a slaughter. I hesitated to just have a confirmated Arso for this reason, even if it's less fun.

Your setup seems good to me, and I also believe a "true" Cult setup doesn't need Mafia, and like random towns, but playing public, most people leave when they see no maf'... Hence the hybrid style. Having only 2 maf is a good idea tho.

About Auditor, I'm glad we think the same. Just got flamed by people for not having any in my save ^^.

Also it's true only 1 cultist is random and may lead to death of cult N1. Maybe 2 maf 2 cultists 1 killer 10 towns ?

Still not sure about SK over Arso tho. In your setup I get the SK for confirmed night kill, but in a setup with Mafia I'll either prefer Arso, or maybe non-killing evil.
Taking into account:

Sheriff (all-mighty)
Doctor (prevent conversion/become WD)
Town Invest (exclude Sheriff)
Town Gvt (exclude Cit, Mason become ML if alone)
Town Protective (Bodyguard prevent conversion)
Town Killing
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random
Cultist
Cultist
Godfather
Mafia Random
Arsonist (victims doesn't know)

How does that sound for an hybrid ? All mighty sheriff is very strong with two protectives IMO, but what do you think, is Town really behind this way ?

**Yukitaka Oni** · January 29th, 2016, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by PIayer

Thanks for feedback you two.

@Yukitaka Alright for the ML, but isn't the Sheriff too powerful if he can even detect GF ? Or if I do how you say, I should disable Sheriff from Rand investigative.

@Cryptonic: Yeah setup's hard for town, but in practice town won 2 of 3 games I ran with this setup (cult won 3rd). Also Arso can't kill a player a night, often doused people will die before ignition. But you're right, if killer is SK/MM it can turn into a slaughter. I hesitated to just have a confirmated Arso for this reason, even if it's less fun.

Your setup seems good to me, and I also believe a "true" Cult setup doesn't need Mafia, and like random towns, but playing public, most people leave when they see no maf'... Hence the hybrid style. Having only 2 maf is a good idea tho.

About Auditor, I'm glad we think the same. Just got flamed by people for not having any in my save ^^.

Also it's true only 1 cultist is random and may lead to death of cult N1. Maybe 2 maf 2 cultists 1 killer 10 towns ?

Still not sure about SK over Arso tho. In your setup I get the SK for confirmed night kill, but in a setup with Mafia I'll either prefer Arso, or maybe non-killing evil.
Taking into account:

Sheriff (all-mighty)
Doctor (prevent conversion/become WD)
Town Invest (exclude Sheriff)
Town Gvt (exclude Cit, Mason become ML if alone)
Town Protective (Bodyguard prevent conversion)
Town Killing
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random
Cultist
Cultist
Godfather
Mafia Random
Arsonist (victims doesn't know)

How does that sound for an hybrid ? All mighty sheriff is very strong with two protectives IMO, but what do you think, is Town really behind this way ?

Do not worry, when you let option sheriff can detect Mafia on and let the godfather immune to detection, the godfather will show up as no suspicious feedback to sheriff, making sheriff think he's ns(not suspicious) but of course the sheriff can still detect the other Mafia (unless framer with immune to detection on as well)
v)o.o)> so the godfather is still fine (investigator check godfather show up as: no crime)

**marinebase7** · January 29th, 2016, 06:48 PM

Same reason what crypto said plus the added social factor that 99% of the time town is completely retarded and can't handle mafia let alone cult.
Should exclude neut killing without ML. With ML though it's doable but at the same time if ML dies town is auto lose.

**Yukitaka Oni** · January 29th, 2016, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by marinebase7

Same reason what crypto said plus the added social factor that 99% of the time town is completely retarded and can't handle mafia let alone cult.
Should exclude neut killing without ML. With ML though it's doable but at the same time if ML dies town is auto lose.

There is a funny debate in veteran group player you know?
1. If mason exist, then they will fight cult until the end (kill mafia first of course)
2. If mason doesn't exist then there is 2 plan
- fight both: require lots of skill and luck
- allies: when cult can predict they have enough people and convert to convert the rest of the town (usually day 3-4) they will declare war on mafia and tell the town to join them (they will become somewhat like a.....mason group) leading the losing town and convert the rest of the town. But that require town and cult agreement. Which....newbie usually just gonna be afraid cult more than mafia when......cult is their final hope to win....

**secondpassing** · January 30th, 2016, 01:24 AM

If you want a cult save with mafia in it, try the Shang-hide(?) Save of the Day. Search "save of the day". Replacing the neutral killing with a cultist makes it a lot more workable.

Cult games with mason leader usually means death for cult.

**PIayer** · February 1st, 2016, 08:14 AM

Do not worry, when you let option sheriff can detect Mafia on and let the godfather immune to detection, the godfather will show up as no suspicious feedback to sheriff, making sheriff think he's ns(not suspicious) but of course the sheriff can still detect the other Mafia (unless framer with immune to detection on as well)
v)o.o)> so the godfather is still fine (investigator check godfather show up as: no crime)

Oh yeah, now I get what you meant. When I told my sheriff didn't detect GF, wanted to say he detects Mafia but GF is immune to detection. Detecting Maf' is totally standard for a sheriff, I get that.

Originally Posted by marinebase7 View Post

Same reason what crypto said plus the added social factor that 99% of the time town is completely retarded and can't handle mafia let alone cult.
Should exclude neut killing without ML. With ML though it's doable but at the same time if ML dies town is auto lose.

There is a funny debate in veteran group player you know?
1. If mason exist, then they will fight cult until the end (kill mafia first of course)
2. If mason doesn't exist then there is 2 plan
- fight both: require lots of skill and luck
- allies: when cult can predict they have enough people and convert to convert the rest of the town (usually day 3-4) they will declare war on mafia and tell the town to join them (they will become somewhat like a.....mason group) leading the losing town and convert the rest of the town. But that require town and cult agreement. Which....newbie usually just gonna be afraid cult more than mafia when......cult is their final hope to win....

@marinebase & Yukitaka: thanks guys, this is definitely the kind of insights I was looking for with OP. I'm not nearly as experienced as you but what Yuki says totally make sense to me. There are pros & cons on Mason Leader. Personally I tried cult games with ML and also Masons who could become ML if alone, and saw Town lose to cult one time only. In fact if ML/Masons are experienced players or at least decent players who'll reveal their brothers and take advantage of being informed town, cult have no chance and it's also tough for Mafia (bcuz who want to kill a revealed Mason, high risk for low reward).
Long story short, you boys finished to convince me to not play cult setups with ML & 4 different factions in the same time, as it's too much variance, if ML die early town almost lost, and if ML doesn't die at all Cult almost lost. Doc/BG Protection should make more interesting games a priori; althrough I would still make ML possible via Gvt/Random town

I'm fully aware 4 factions games (town/maf/neut killer/cult) may be very hard to balance, so what's your opinion on this ? Is the game with 3 factions more balanced/interesting for you? (cutting either neut killer or cult) I'm really looking for a setup which can lead to interesting mindgames & discussions, so no problem cutting a neut killer (would like to hear thoughts about Arsonist in that matter, is it like others killers for you or do you think it can be interesting in a cult game ?)

@secondpassing: do you mean this one ?
(

Spoiler : Setup :

)

It looks very decent to me (2 maf so peeps have the feeling of playing Mafia but no GF, 2 cult so cult doesn't just die N1, it seems challenging for town but yet winnable). But isn't 3 Investigative too much? What if Neut killing is confirmed Arso ? Also why Witch instead of Random neutral (no killing).

Sorry if I'm overthinking this, and again thank you all for your insights! You're helping me.

**Brendan** · February 2nd, 2016, 02:08 AM

I have an interesting cult setup with a couple of arsonists. Everyone loves it.

**Force20** · February 2nd, 2016, 11:32 PM

Here's one I've been working on:

Mason Leader
Mason
Sheriff
Coroner
Mayor (Retains votes in cult)
Town Prot (Doc/BG only)
Town Kill (Vig/Jail only)
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random
Neut Killing (No Immunity)
Neut Random
Neut Random
Cultist
Witch Doctor

The only people who get immunity are survivors and executioners. Everyone else has to fend for themselves. Additionally, Sheriff can only detect cult, Invest is banned completely, Mason cannot be randomed, and there is a very low chance for a doc/bg/citizen to appear from a random slot. Doc/BG can protect against cult conversions, so as a tradeoff, cultists get to convert every night.

**Yukitaka Oni** · February 10th, 2016, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Force20

Here's one I've been working on:

Mason Leader
Mason
Sheriff
Coroner
Mayor (Retains votes in cult)
Town Prot (Doc/BG only)
Town Kill (Vig/Jail only)
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random
Neut Killing (No Immunity)
Neut Random
Neut Random
Cultist
Witch Doctor

The only people who get immunity are survivors and executioners. Everyone else has to fend for themselves. Additionally, Sheriff can only detect cult, Invest is banned completely, Mason cannot be randomed, and there is a very low chance for a doc/bg/citizen to appear from a random slot. Doc/BG can protect against cult conversions, so as a tradeoff, cultists get to convert every night.

If convert every night, the chance to hit mayor become more faster. Just keep the 1 night every conversation because there is a witch doctor who can save people too

**Yukitaka Oni** · February 10th, 2016, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by PIayer

Oh yeah, now I get what you meant. When I told my sheriff didn't detect GF, wanted to say he detects Mafia but GF is immune to detection. Detecting Maf' is totally standard for a sheriff, I get that.

@marinebase & Yukitaka: thanks guys, this is definitely the kind of insights I was looking for with OP. I'm not nearly as experienced as you but what Yuki says totally make sense to me. There are pros & cons on Mason Leader. Personally I tried cult games with ML and also Masons who could become ML if alone, and saw Town lose to cult one time only. In fact if ML/Masons are experienced players or at least decent players who'll reveal their brothers and take advantage of being informed town, cult have no chance and it's also tough for Mafia (bcuz who want to kill a revealed Mason, high risk for low reward).
Long story short, you boys finished to convince me to not play cult setups with ML & 4 different factions in the same time, as it's too much variance, if ML die early town almost lost, and if ML doesn't die at all Cult almost lost. Doc/BG Protection should make more interesting games a priori; althrough I would still make ML possible via Gvt/Random town

I'm fully aware 4 factions games (town/maf/neut killer/cult) may be very hard to balance, so what's your opinion on this ? Is the game with 3 factions more balanced/interesting for you? (cutting either neut killer or cult) I'm really looking for a setup which can lead to interesting mindgames & discussions, so no problem cutting a neut killer (would like to hear thoughts about Arsonist in that matter, is it like others killers for you or do you think it can be interesting in a cult game ?)

@secondpassing: do you mean this one ?
(

Spoiler : Setup :

)

It looks very decent to me (2 maf so peeps have the feeling of playing Mafia but no GF, 2 cult so cult doesn't just die N1, it seems challenging for town but yet winnable). But isn't 3 Investigative too much? What if Neut killing is confirmed Arso ? Also why Witch instead of Random neutral (no killing).

Sorry if I'm overthinking this, and again thank you all for your insights! You're helping me.

Make sure cult need 1 night after conversation because in your setup right now, town have a high chance of losing 3 town in 2 days

User Tag List

Thread: Looking for an interesting Cult setup (or the reasons why you don't like Cult)

ISO List

Vote History

Vote Count

Thread Tools

Display

Looking for an interesting Cult setup (or the reasons why you don't like Cult)

Re: Looking for an interesting Cult setup (or the reasons why you don't like Cult)

Re: Looking for an interesting Cult setup (or the reasons why you don't like Cult)

Re: Looking for an interesting Cult setup (or the reasons why you don't like Cult)

Re: Looking for an interesting Cult setup (or the reasons why you don't like Cult)

Re: Looking for an interesting Cult setup (or the reasons why you don't like Cult)

Re: Looking for an interesting Cult setup (or the reasons why you don't like Cult)

Re: Looking for an interesting Cult setup (or the reasons why you don't like Cult)

Re: Looking for an interesting Cult setup (or the reasons why you don't like Cult)

Re: Looking for an interesting Cult setup (or the reasons why you don't like Cult)

Re: Looking for an interesting Cult setup (or the reasons why you don't like Cult)

Re: Looking for an interesting Cult setup (or the reasons why you don't like Cult)

Re: Looking for an interesting Cult setup (or the reasons why you don't like Cult)

Re: Looking for an interesting Cult setup (or the reasons why you don't like Cult)

Posting Permissions