S-FM Four Quick Games and a Main One.

[deathworlds]

"Oh boy it's midnight and deathworlds has a setup idea... Here we go again"

RP
A complex game for 12 players.

Four Games Section

Four Games Role List
Mafioso
Angel
Citizen

Spoiler : Four Game Role List :

Mafioso
If you survive the day, you win the game.
You have power in the vote.

Angel
If you are lynched, you kill the person who hammered your vote.
You have power in the vote.

Citizen
You have power in the vote.

Four Games Win Conditions
Town: Have 1 member alive to see the Mafioso dead.
Mafia: Survive the day.

Four Games Mechanics
Day lasts 24 hours. If no lynch occurs, then the Mafia wins.
Lynches will be handled by the automated lynch system, using [vote] tags. With a majority hammer.
Anon accounts will be used for this portion of the game.
COM Claiming is absolutly forbidden during this portion of the game
Roles are not revealed upon death
Players are not informed of who wins the game.

Four Games Special Mechanics
Wtf is this shit!?!?: This portion of the game will be played four times, by four different randomized groups of players from the sign up list, the outcomes of these games will determain the setup of the game all players will play in.

Seriously wtf!?: Players who played as mafia in this portion of the game will be mafia or traitor in the main game. Anyone who played as Town in this portion of the game will guarentee to be Town in the main game.

Main Game Section

Four Games Role List

0 Mafia Wins, 4 Town Wins	1 Mafia Win, 3 Town Wins	2 Mafia Wins, 2 Town Wins	3 Mafia Wins, 1 Town Win	4 Mafia Wins, 0 Town Wins
Mafioso x2 Traitor x2 Doctor x1 Sheriff x1 Citizen x6	Mafioso x2 Consort x1 Traitor x1 Doctor x1 Sheriff x1 Citizen x6	Mafioso x1 Consort x1 Godfather x1 Traitor x1 Doctor x1 Sheriff x1 Citizen x6	Mafioso x1 Consort x1 Godfather x1 Traitor x1 Sheriff x1 Citizen x7	Mafioso x2 Consort x1 Godfather x1 Sheriff x1 Citizen x7

Spoiler : Main Game Roles :

Godfather
You appear as a Citizen to all sheriffs
You share a night chat with the other members of the Mafia
You may be sent out for the factional nightly kill

Consort
At night you may roleblock a player, they are prevented from taking an action
You share a night chat with the other members of the Mafia
You may forsake your normal night action to perform the factional nightly kill

Mafioso
You share a night chat with the other members of the Mafia
You may be sent out for the factional nightly kill

Traitor
Upon being targeted by a member of the mafia, you become a Mafioso
You do not share a night chat with other members of the Mafia.
You do not know the identitys of your teammates, and they do not know the identities of any traitors (if they exist)

Doctor
At night you may heal someone, they cannot die that night.

Sheriff
At night you may check someone.
Consorts and Mafiosos appear as Scum
Doctors, Sheriffs, Citizens, and the Godfather appear as Town

Citizen
You have power in the vote!

Main Game Win Conditions
Town: Have 1 or more members alive to eliminate the Mafia
Mafia: Have 1 or more members alive to eliminate the Town or obtain the majority vote.

Main Game Mechanics
Days and Nights last 24 hours
Mafia shares a night chat
Votes will be handled by the automated lynch system, with a 51% hammer.
Mafia wins all ties
Roles are revealed on death.
Death notes and last wills are not allowed.
Suicide is not allowed.

Order of Operations
1. Consort
2. Doctor
3. Factional Kill
4. Sheriff
5. Traitor Convertion

The Eleven Commandments Rules
1. Inactive players will be replaced by another soul.

2. White Bold Text shall not be used by mere mortals, this text shall be used only by me.

3. English shall be the only language used.

4. Do not post links to other websites.

5. Videos and Images will not be tolerated.

6. Excessive insulting is not allowed.

7. Thou who edit or delete thine post shall be smited.

8. Quoting any PM's or Feedback by me is forbidden.

9. Usage of invisible ink shall shrink your penis.

10. Communicating with players or through third parties about the game is strictly forbidden

11. COM claiming is forbidden during the first portion of the game.

[Calix]

Alright, hang with me here since I'm not entirely sure I understand the setup.

So you have 4 games with 3 players each, right? Do they take place at the same time or do they happen one-by-one in the same game thread? Can everyone view the outcome of these games?

Anyone who played as Town in this portion of the game will guarentee to be Town in the main game.

If anon accounts apply for the Four Games part, couldn't the town players from the 3-player game figure out who the town/ mafia among them could be purely from the fact that it says that town members are guaranteed to be town in the Main Game?

[DarknessB]

Alright, hang with me here since I'm not entirely sure I understand the setup.

So you have 4 games with 3 players each, right? Do they take place at the same time or do they happen one-by-one in the same game thread? Can everyone view the outcome of these games?



If anon accounts apply for the Four Games part, couldn't the town players from the 3-player game figure out who the town/ mafia among them could be purely from the fact that it says that town members are guaranteed to be town in the Main Game?

LOL, this is Deathworlds -- no one really understanding the setup is part of the fun. Consider me impressed that you are giving it a shot though.

In the final game, can we introduce rule follower and rule breaker secondary alignments, along with a special host role?

[Stealthbomber16]

Alright, hang with me here since I'm not entirely sure I understand the setup.

So you have 4 games with 3 players each, right? Do they take place at the same time or do they happen one-by-one in the same game thread? Can everyone view the outcome of these games?



If anon accounts apply for the Four Games part, couldn't the town players from the 3-player game figure out who the town/ mafia among them could be purely from the fact that it says that town members are guaranteed to be town in the Main Game?

I think its 1 at a time

[deathworlds]

Alright, hang with me here since I'm not entirely sure I understand the setup.
This tends to be the norm with my S-FMs

So you have 4 games with 3 players each, right? Do they take place at the same time or do they happen one-by-one in the same game thread? Can everyone view the outcome of these games?

Yes, the Four Quick Games are all side by side, with all of them being completed within 98 hours. So far everyone will be informed if either Town wins or the Mafia wins.



If anon accounts apply for the Four Games part, couldn't the town players from the 3-player game figure out who the town/ mafia among them could be purely from the fact that it says that town members are guaranteed to be town in the Main Game?
I'm thinking that instead of roles being revealed on death, it's a hidden graveyard, and instead of everyone being informed of which groups faction wins

Example: Group A mafia team wins. Only Group A is informed of this.
Example: Group B town team wins. Only Group B is informed of this.

What do ya think about that?

Responses in Bold White

[Calix]

Checks out. Would add an interesting dynamic to the game since players in a certain game would have specialised information on the likelihood of XYZ players being scum/ town in the main game.

I have no experience with hidden graveyards, so I'm not sure how that would affect the game. It seems like a scum-sided mechanic to me, but it could also help make the differences between 'informed' and 'uninformed' players more obvious.

I think specifying their alignment (so Sheriff, Doctor, Citizen would all flip 'Town') might work as a compromise, but that doesn't fix the issue of players guessing other people's alignments on its own, so adding this alongside keeping the results of the Four Games hidden could work.

[deathworlds]

Checks out. Would add an interesting dynamic to the game since players in a certain game would have specialised information on the likelihood of XYZ players being scum/ town in the main game.

I have no experience with hidden graveyards, so I'm not sure how that would affect the game. It seems like a scum-sided mechanic to me, but it could also help make the differences between 'informed' and 'uninformed' players more obvious.

I think specifying their alignment (so Sheriff, Doctor, Citizen would all flip 'Town') might work as a compromise, but that doesn't fix the issue of players guessing other people's alignments on its own, so adding this alongside keeping the results of the Four Games hidden could work.

I was thinking hidden graveyard just for the Quick Games.

[Calix]

I was thinking hidden graveyard just for the Quick Games.

I think that would be unnecessary, but it wouldn't be detrimental either. If the only roles that you have are Citizen, a role that kills the hammer voter and Mafia, I think that most people would be able to guess who each person was regardless.

[deathworlds]

LOL, this is Deathworlds -- no one really understanding the setup is part of the fun. Consider me impressed that you are giving it a shot though.

In the final game, can we introduce rule follower and rule breaker secondary alignments, along with a special host role?

I kind of want to keep this game low-key complex.

[DarknessB]

I kind of want to keep this game low-key complex.

LOL, fair enough. Given your past games though, you should do a Deathworlds Grab Bag type game at some point with a bunch of popular elements from older games brought back in. Oh -- are you going to rerun Election Day at some point too? I kind of want to see how that ends up.

[deathworlds]

LOL, fair enough. Given your past games though, you should do a Deathworlds Grab Bag type game at some point with a bunch of popular elements from older games brought back in. Oh -- are you going to rerun Election Day at some point too? I kind of want to see how that ends up.

The last game of the year that I host will feature any of my previous Large S-FM games.

[Thornholt]

Huuum... newbie question.... WTF is COM hunting/claiming?!?!?!

[deathworlds]

Huuum... newbie question.... WTF is COM hunting/claiming?!?!?!

COM = Main Account (Don't ask me what the acryonem literally means I don't know).

COM Hunting = Trying to figure out who has what anon account.

COM Claiming = Outright claiming you are Player X or had Anon Account X

[Thornholt]

COM = Main Account (Don't ask me what the acryonem literally means I don't know).

COM Hunting = Trying to figure out who has what anon account.

COM Claiming = Outright claiming you are Player X or had Anon Account X

alright, thanks

[yzb25]

COM = Main Account (Don't ask me what the acryonem literally means I don't know).

COM Hunting = Trying to figure out who has what anon account.

COM Claiming = Outright claiming you are Player X or had Anon Account X

I feel like banning COM hunting/claiming kind of destroys a lot of the point - you're going into the main game with this history, and the ability to converse about and think about this history is largely destroyed if you cannot make player-based connections between the first 4 games and the main game.

Furthermore, as Calix said, even if you hide the graveyard, by virtue of the fact you're TELLING each group whether maf won or not, you are still essentially revealing the graveyard. I think it'd be better if you left town to second guess whether they actually got their guesses right in the first 4 games.

I also don't like that mafias can turn into towns. I feel like they should at the least have some kind of vested interest to not try to reveal to the town that they were mafias in the first game, because then we'll get people claiming they were mafia and are now town d1, and rapidly working out how many victories there were and narrowing down which groups had mafias in them. Even if a mafia tried to counterclaim that they had turned into town, they would probably be sussed out quickly, making it an unsafe course of action.

I think a good way to get around this is to ensure all the mafias who turn into towns are crucial TPRs. That way, claiming you WERE maf at the very least comes at a price. Furthermore, people will be discouraged from lynching people they think might have been the maf in their game if there's a chance they're actually hunting the TPR.

Also, the fact that mafias could potentially turn into town and hence could potentially be playing against their wincon when they try to win the first game is the other silly aspect of the "mafias might be town". Perhaps you could make it so that mafias that lost their first game AND turned into a town have some kind of weakness - something to motivate them to not lose even if they turn into a town.

Alternatively, you could scrap all this mafias turning into towns stuff by saying "okay, all mafias in the first 4 games are mafia in the next game. Furthermore, how many games mafia wins will PURELY determine how powerful the 4 mafia roles are, and have nothing to do with how MANY mafia roles there are."

[deathworlds]

I feel like banning COM hunting/claiming kind of destroys a lot of the point - you're going into the main game with this history, and the ability to converse about and think about this history is largely destroyed if you cannot make player-based connections between the first 4 games and the main game.

Alternatively, you could scrap all this mafias turning into towns stuff by saying "okay, all mafias in the first 4 games are mafia in the next game. Furthermore, how many games mafia wins will PURELY determine how powerful the 4 mafia roles are, and have nothing to do with how MANY mafia roles there are."

I thinking that only informing the mafia in the main game of how many games were won.

Also adding a traitor role that when it's targeted by a player of the mafia they become a mafioso.

Editing accordingly....

[deathworlds]

I've added a "Traitor" role, and made it so no one is informed of who wins the first portions of the game.

Thoughts?

[MattZed]

Traitors flip as traitors in the graveyard, correct?

Can traitor conversion be healed?

Serious flaw: Traitors will know they are traitors by the fact they were mafia in the game before. They then have incentives to screw over the town, hoping to be converted later. Citizens will similarly know they are not traitors. I know this is to make it so mafia have an incentive to win game 1, but this isn't quite working yet.

Do players receive feedback of being targeted by a consort?

There doesn't seem to be a point in needing to send someone on the kill as town can't see visits or perform roleblocks. All it does it make the consort weaker if they are the last remaining mafia, which is such a minor balance point.

I worry the game is in general a little more scumsided than you'd like.

Suggestion: Make the doc an escort? (or, for added intrigue, a roleblocking doctor so they can't just heal an immortal cop)

Major Concern: Angel can safely claim. If mafioso counterclaims, then the citizen just has to vote for one of the claimers. If they voted for mafioso, angel hammers. If angel is voted and mafioso refuses to hammer, then they found mafioso. Thus the angels can be confirmed and COM hunting the angels becomes a way to confirm towns.

Concern: Citizen and Mafioso in the four-game stage have exactly the same objective: get the other guy lynched, or be the first person to vote the angel. What's the point of the mini-game if there's no way to even remotely tell anyone apart as they have identical goals and identical information?

[deathworlds]

Traitors flip as traitors in the graveyard, correct?

Traitors flip as Traitor in the graveyard.

Can traitor conversion be healed?

No

Serious flaw: Traitors will know they are traitors by the fact they were mafia in the game before. They then have incentives to screw over the town, hoping to be converted later. Citizens will similarly know they are not traitors. I know this is to make it so mafia have an incentive to win game 1, but this isn't quite working yet.

Fixing... Traitors now share the mafia win condition, but do not have access to the night chat nor know who their allies are.

Do players receive feedback of being targeted by a consort?

Yes

There doesn't seem to be a point in needing to send someone on the kill as town can't see visits or perform roleblocks. All it does it make the consort weaker if they are the last remaining mafia, which is such a minor balance point.

I do not plan on changing it.

I worry the game is in general a little more scumsided than you'd like.

Oh?

Suggestion: Make the doc an escort? (or, for added intrigue, a roleblocking doctor so they can't just heal an immortal cop)

Consort exists in most games to prevent a "follow the sheriff" game.

Major Concern: Angel can safely claim. If mafioso counterclaims, then the citizen just has to vote for one of the claimers. If they voted for mafioso, angel hammers. If angel is voted and mafioso refuses to hammer, then they found mafioso. Thus the angels can be confirmed and COM hunting the angels becomes a way to confirm towns.

I'll gladly set up a few test games in skype if you would like

Concern: Citizen and Mafioso in the four-game stage have exactly the same objective: get the other guy lynched, or be the first person to vote the angel. What's the point of the mini-game if there's no way to even remotely tell anyone apart as they have identical goals and identical information?

The games act as incentive to try and logically deduse who is lying in order to gain an advantage in the long run.

Responses in Bold White