btw, I posted another new setup. 10 players, with a different take on the game. Care to share your opinion?
LINK TO SETUP
mb not sure why I quoted NotPanda lol
I'll be around so we can discuss it further.
I honestly don't see why you'd vote for someone who's pointing out that someone is clearing simply assigning blame and pulling out arguments out of thin air, rather than the guy who's blaming and pulling out stuff out of thin air
I am going to go off on a limb and trust Thornholt.
Toadette it's now on you to finish the game once and for all.
Kat-chan would have had to be the jester then, and he didn't sound much like a jester in his posts. Also I don't think Zed would have said townies if Kat-chan were the jester. I think we have to take the risk and assume that Suntax is jester at least for the purposes of today.
I really don't feel like rereading
Spoiler : O.o :¯\_(ツ)_/¯Originally Posted by SilverWolf
GAME OVER. THE TOWN HAS WON
Congratulations to Thornholt, Kat-chan, deathworlds, Toadette, RLVG, and Spruance!
The remaining town members gathered to lynch NotPanda. He proclaimed his innocence and tried to shift the blame, but the town would not be swayed. As the noose went around his next, NotPanda tried to assume bat form to escape; unfortunately, the sun was still up and his transformation caused him to instantly turn into dust. The vampire threat was eliminated.
I'm pleased with how this game went. The suicides, if anything, probably helped eliminate suspects.
If I were to redo this setup, I would probably remove/redo the Jester role. With the suicides shortening this and probably future games, I doubt they have the 50% winrate they'd need to be competitive. Suntax was spotted rather easily in this game, but I am not sure how much better anyone could have done.
NotPanda did a fine job as first-time scum. Everyone has to go through that experience sometime. Hope to see you back for more of my setups!
deathworld's and RLVG's suicides made me lul. I take a lot of pleasure in knowing that I gave you an night action, and that you used it to kill yourself.
Especially good job to Toadette, Thornholt, and Spruance for being to able to lynch the correct target in a 3v1v1. I'll let you three fight it out for MVP.
Maybe there should be two Jesters next time. Seems like Town keeps wining these games with decent margin to spare.
ika inspired me to lynch NotPanda
In the end it was NotPanda or Thornholt for sure, definitely not Spruance lol. Obvious Suntax was Suntax
Spoiler : O.o :¯\_(ツ)_/¯Originally Posted by SilverWolf
What's nice also is that you have two different data points on how this game has gone with the two runs through of it.
Last edited by DarknessB; January 12th, 2016 at 07:50 PM.
This is the only site I've ever seen where the Jester isn't bashed to death by players and mods alike; besides being the easiest role to win with, it's one of the few roles that punish the Town for lynching someone of a different faction.
Have you played Assassins in the Palace? It's a setup where there's a King and an Assassin. When lynched, the Assassin has one shot at figuring out the King and killing him, so the Assassin tries to live long enough to narrow down the living players while having more time to figure out his target.
You could make your Jester an Vampire Slayer (a flavour name for an Assassin) instead, and make it so he has one chance to kill the Vampire Lord after getting lynched. If he does it, the game ends and only the Jester/Slayer wins. If not, well, the Town gets punished for the mislynch by getting an extra death. That way you get to keep your third faction role which the Town should avoid lynching, while also giving it a win condition that requires some thinking at the very least.
Still, I think Jesters are bad in general, and should be kept away from normal, balanced setups.
AitP is hard enough for the Assassin as it is. Making him have to be lynched first is just unreasonable.
Like I said, I have considered scrapping the role entirely, but I am liking the solo win the more I think about it.
There's a single role in this game with the ability to kill at night. If you get the only NK in the game to target you as a Jester, that says more about your play than about the role.
You are planning on making it an insta-win when lynched, which is effectively punishing the Town for lynching someone who doesn't share their victory conditions.As I had it in this game, a Jester lynch gives town the same numbers as a mislynch, and a nightkill on a Jester is basically a wasted kill.
I was doing a Google search to see if I could find a discussion on the subject, and funnily enough, I found one on this site: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...in-Forum-Mafia
It's an interesting poll.
That thread also included a link to a wiki article which sums up the idea very well:
That said, I only mentioned all of this because you said something about liking balance, and a Jester bring anything but that to a game. But there's nothing wrong with having one in your game if that's what you want.Jester is held in profound distaste partly because it is easy to win with (any village idiot can get lynched Day 1) and partly because even in the best case it punishes Town for lynching someone who is not of their alignment. (...) Jester is generally considered a bastard role. (...) Most people will probably still tell you to simply not use Jesters.
I don't really see a problem in punishing players for lynching someone. Sure, it's not ultra vanilla, but the point of such adding another faction, such as a jester, is to add nuance to the "find my faction, lynch the other faction" paradigm.
If I made the Jester an instant solo win, my goal would be a roughly 33-33-33 winrate among town-vamp-jester, and I don't think the setup would be too far off from that.
I doubt there's any data; this is a game without a fixed set of rules, and a playerbase with different skill levels. That said, whether a Jester achieves or not their victory, it's undoubtely the easiest win condition to achieve, since all you have to do is getting lynched, in a game where the Townies -and particularly the ones who are new to the game- are just too eager to see "slips" and "scum reads" in the most meaningless things, and where the scum is happy to lynch anyone as long as it's not one of them. That's like playing basketball and having a win condition of "miss a shot".
As for the problem with punishing the players for lynching a Jester, it's because it punishes the Town fr doing their job; whether the Jester is unexperienced and thus is blocking lynches, spamming or being generally annoying, or experienced and slowly but effectively "slips" in the scummiest way, the Town are just doing their job: getting rid of someone who is either scum or a someone preventing them from achieving their win con, and punishing someone for doing what they are supposed to is not cool.
Again, I don't see what Jester is doing as a problem, just something different. I'm trying to make the game more nuanced than a simple round of "lynch the scummiest player day after day until all the scum are dead or we are." I don't see why "town should be better off for eliminating a non-town" has to be a thing.
My MVP vote would go to Toadette honestly. The way she played definitely gave me a clue towards reading her as town. Near the end I was really confused.
Spoiler : Orpz FM History :
FM17 - Won, FM18 - Won, FM19 - Won ,FM20 - Loss, FM21 - Won, MVP, FM22 - Host Canceled, FM23 - Won, FM24 - Hosted, FM25 - Won, FM26 - Loss
boo should have stayed on the thornholt train, realized too late that was the easy way out rofl
Maybe do 6 citizens 2 jesters and 1 vampire lord xd