Neutral Benign: Double Agent

[lawson]

An idea for a new role called "Double Agent". You are a spy, you forge alliances and betray them as you see fit. The game doesn't allow for this type of play without violating gamethrow rules, so I wanted to create an espionage role that allowed you to betray people without violating rules.

Basically you're a neutral benign investigator who detects exact roles. You can find a mafia and then send PMs to them, informing them of doctors and sheriffs that haven't revealed yet. You can also blackmail jailors or kidnappers with your information if you are caught, and you can hide under the ruse of a "survivor" claim as you are neutral benign. You can side with town and find mafia, you can find one mafia and appear good only to feed mafia the identities of the doctors and sheriffs, you can feed mafia some false info to send them into a veteran, the possibilities are endless.

I wanted to make a role that increases in excitement depending on how creative the player wants to be. The capability of this role is greatly varied by the skill level of the person assuming it. It would give veterans an opportunity to spread their wings and newbies an exciting element to play with. You could actually blackmail someone, instead of just pressing a button, such as "Yes you can execute me, but I have two doctors in my last will. You really want to do that?"

I really want to emphasize the detect exact role, it's crucial to this role's success. The point of this role is to have information and to do with it how you see fit. While the Double Agent uses the mechanics of the Investigator he is not one, as he has no goal other than to survive. Information is his weapon and his defense, it will keep him alive by forging alliances and secure him the win by knowing things others do not.

Double Agent

You are an ex-intelligence officer who swears allegiance to no one. A master of information, you use your knowledge to benefit whomever you please. You don't care who wins, survive until the end of the game.

Objectives

Survive until the end of the game

Abilities

Visit one person each night detecting their exact role.

You appear as a Survivor or no crimes to Investigators, and Not Suspicious to Sheriffs.

[Sino]

Having informations as defense and weapon is really the best idea i've ever read on this forum, but i guess, double agents will almost always side with maf, fearing to be killed at night.

And don't forget this role will be very powerful during midgame, but will have no new information to give endgame

Anyways, it's a great idea, i would love to see such a role appear ingame, but i have some things to add to this role :

-It should always ignore detection immunity (obviously)
-It should be clean immune, having the maf kill and clean him in order to get his lw for them alone would maybe be a bit too powerful

[lawson]

The Double Agent in no way is restricted to working with Mafia nor does his set up favor a faction. Because he wins with everyone, he could just act as an Investigator, request a heal, and play as an Invest the rest of the game. Or he could do more....

I don't think anyone should be clean immune, THAT is OP. If you're Mafia and you're clever/lucky enough to be presented with a situation which you can eliminate the threat of an enemy investigator, you've earned it. You could even be smart about it and say "Look pal, we'll just kill/clean you so why don't you work for us instead?" and persuade him to give you his town leads.

Furthermore, if you were hyper concerned about revealing the town leads to Mafia you could not keep a last will. Back when Investigators actually gave roles I always left doctors out but I would remember who they were.

If the Double Agent was actively feeding Mafia leads, a smart town could pick up on all the whispers and force the Double Agent to side with town (or at least make it tough to conspire against it) lest he be lynched. "Tell us who you're working with and we won't kill you" sort of deal.

The possibilities are as fruitful as your imagination. This game has yet to offer a role that truly has the capacity for betrayal, other options all violate gamethrow rules. Feeding false information, forming false trust, betraying your "allies." An element this game has yet seen. I think it would add a new level of depth.

[Reemus]

If you make new unique neutral role, make it unique. Make it clean immune as option off for generic and on for advanced players.

[yzb25]

I like the chaos he adds to the game. It's kinda like amnesiac. But I feel it's too easy to win with from the double agent's perspective. I also feel it could be more interesting. I know you probably like the freedom and variety in this role and don't want that freedom and variety to be limited with more win conditions. So I suggest this as merely a toggle-able option to


-He is given 1 "client"
-He is given 2 "clients"
-He is given 3 "clients"
-He is given 4 "clients"

(If boxes left unticked, he will have no clients.)

If a client dies, he must win with the alignment of the dead client. Every single time a client dies, his alignment switches to the new client. If his client was someone without an alignment e.g. jester then he will default back to not needing to win with a specific alignment. It is possible for him to be the last representative of his alignment. For example, a serial killer who was his client could be lynched, making him the serial killer's alignment but with all the serial killers dead he is the only one who represents the serial killer alignment, despite there being no actual serial killers.

This has a lot of possibilities. For example in the scenario above he'd have to get to a 1v1 situation and win the tie (as he is, after all, a member of the serial killer alignment and will win over town and mafia) or he could induce the death of another client to get him out of his difficult situation.

This also means he'd have to plan in advance. For example, if he had a client town and was aligned with the mafia, he'd have to make sure either that town never died and the mafia won via a tie situation at the end of the game or he'd have to work against the mafia while planning to get the client town killed somehow in the future.

[lawson]

I am bumping this. This was my favorite idea yet. I want to see this in game BAD.

Maybe the original post was too long.

Neutral Benign detects exact role Investigator that doesn't care who he wins with. Master manipulator, gets SK to kill Mafia only to backstab SK and side with town. Feeds false info to town, tells Mafia who the BG is. Blackmails Mafia saying they're in his LW so don't shoot him or else.

It's UNIQUE. It will add a new element to the game never before seen, ESPIONAGE. BACKSTABBERY! DECEIT! LIES!!!! TRUTHS!!!!!!!!

As they say, knowledge is power. It's a pity that Investigators and Consiglieres alike don't have the freedom to use the power as they see fit. But the Double Agent does. Mua hahahahahaha!

[nopro]

As town I would randomly pm people and tell them "I am double Agent. I know you're maf! Don't kill me or I will reveal you" and then wait to see how they respond. Seems like an easy method to find scum.

[Cryptonic]

As town I would randomly pm people and tell them "I am double Agent. I know you're maf! Don't kill me or I will reveal you" and then wait to see how they respond. Seems like an easy method to find scum.

Except you'd have to PM people sparingly, and then if you PM a town they'd lynch you because the role is more likely to side with Mafia. And even if it did work, it would last like a week before no one would trust someone PMing them that and the strategy would fade away lol.

[SuperJack]

Objectives:

Survive until the end of the game

Find a better objective for it.

[Cryptonic]

tbh i like this role & think the objective is fine. It's all about keeping a balance.
You have to help Town enough to not get lynched while not helping them so much that Mafia/NK kills you.

[lawson]

As town I would randomly pm people and tell them "I am double Agent. I know you're maf! Don't kill me or I will reveal you" and then wait to see how they respond. Seems like an easy method to find scum.

LOL Nice one man you better hope you actually hit a Mafia cause if I was town and someone PMed me this bullshit I would instantly reveal to town who PMed me and what they said. "Yo 13 just said he was double agent and called me maf?"

I'm glad to see people are posting who would be excited to play this role because that's exactly what I think it will do. It will be fun to play.

I don't think it will be as easy to win as you think. Random killings often occur and you might just die from that, but if you feed one false lead to town and it doesn't secure a win for Mafia you're gonna get lynched, vigi'd or ignored. Mafia probably wouldn't kill you unless you out one of theirs and even then that's dangerous because what doc is gonna heal a neutral role over a town? It's like "Thanks for the info bud but sorry you're still neutral."

I don't think it'll be OP and I do think it'll be hilarious. =D

Also the "Survive to the end of the game" objective is the only one that would truly let this role kick butt. If you had to "pick a side" that leaves no room for betrayal! That is the whole point of DOUBLE agent. Gain one side's trust, then backstab them! If you please, of course.