M-FM XXIV Civilization Gamethread

[Vine]

-vote Vine

You ignored this post and are seemingly copying meta of a player on a different forum...This all feels very fake to me. Depending on the response I may move my vote but I want some explanations.

*stunned*

Cut the Rope voted me for, like... unclear reasons.

copying meta: what meta?
of a player: who?
on a different forum: which forum?
feels very fake: I mean, like... how?

Not clever reasons to vote someone, I'm sure.

[Kik]

Sterling Archer is here. Let's do this shit. Been busy today. Catching up on day now.

[Fall Down]

My certainty does. Post 85 is what sold me on it.

What do you think of them?

You can't use the cause as the effect lol. Obviously you seem certain of it, but you gotta have some sort of reasoning behind it besides "I know cause I know,". Cause that's so helpful.

I'm unsure what to think at the moment. It could be several things here:
- TPR trying to follow South Korea gambit
- Cit WIFOMing trying to follow South Korea gambit
- Mafian WIFOMing trying to follow South Korea gambit
- Doomsday wanting to make sure they stay alive on all sides and clear themselves tonight
- Researcher WIFOMing

I don't think there's any convicting evidence one way or another of their alignment, but I feel relatively certain based off of the over exaggerated posts she makes that she isn't telling the truth about her noobiness.

[Quizup]

I just did.

And yeah, the noobiness is clearly faked. Have you noticed that all of your scenarios preclude Vine being a Warmonger?

[Temple Run]

-vote Temple Run

for selective reading.

*blows a raspberry*

plz explain how the higher chance in our PRs getting hit is a good thing

[Instagram]

Snap, I missed the start of the day.

Hello everyone, I for one like the idea of peacefuls claiming out the gate, as such I would like to claim peaceful.

Enjoyed the pleasant discussion today, glad to see the trolls aren't in full force like usual. It gives me plenty of hope for how this game will turn out. I hope we can all maintain this atmosphere for the rest of the game, instead of resorting to the all too familiar mud slinging of the past.

Reading through I have yet to develop many reads, however one read strikes me quite strongly despite the current situation in the day. As such I would like to express my FOS on Fruit Ninja. I also was quite surprised by the fake vote from Quizip. If only I could know what was going through his mind.

I would like to formally thank the hosts for obliging my request to modify the production increment to 1 instead of .5. I mean did they seriously expect us to be good at math and stuff? This change will make it so much easier for me to divide my production efficiently amongst the various constructions projects.

Focusing my thoughts further on the various construction projects. I completely agree with rushing the Extraterrestrial Colonization, furthermore I would like to elaborate on the strategy. All Peaceseekers should contribute exactly 4 production tonight. All Peacefuls should contribute all 6 production. This provides a minimum production of 66! Meaning if a Peaceseeker gets Filibustered we will still complete the project!

Futhermore, this provides Peaceseeker PRS the additional benefit of NOT BEING REVEALED! It gives the Warmongers the dilemma of killing the confirmed Peaceful or attempting to hit a hidden Peaceseeker PR.

-vote Fruit Ninja

[2048]

Will everyone actually do this; is the problem.

In all honesty I probably would not myself.

[Fruit Ninja]

I could care less who we vote atm, because nothing is truely known about who is who.

-vote Vine

Sheep vote cause Vine is acting dumb.

[Fruit Ninja]

Night guiz.

[2048]

Doesn't anyone realize that a bad lynch means that there could be 2 more bad deaths instead of just 1....?

We aren't working with enough information.

[Temple Run]

I could care less who we vote atm, because nothing is truely known about who is who.

-vote Vine

Sheep vote cause Vine is acting dumb.

this post is acting dumb

also remember that international projects benefit both town and scum, IMO PRs should focus on completing wonders so scum doesn't get them while cits complete the international project

[Temple Run]

Snap, I missed the start of the day.

Hello everyone, I for one like the idea of peacefuls claiming out the gate, as such I would like to claim peaceful.

Enjoyed the pleasant discussion today, glad to see the trolls aren't in full force like usual. It gives me plenty of hope for how this game will turn out. I hope we can all maintain this atmosphere for the rest of the game, instead of resorting to the all too familiar mud slinging of the past.

Reading through I have yet to develop many reads, however one read strikes me quite strongly despite the current situation in the day. As such I would like to express my FOS on Fruit Ninja. I also was quite surprised by the fake vote from Quizip. If only I could know what was going through his mind.

I would like to formally thank the hosts for obliging my request to modify the production increment to 1 instead of .5. I mean did they seriously expect us to be good at math and stuff? This change will make it so much easier for me to divide my production efficiently amongst the various constructions projects.

Focusing my thoughts further on the various construction projects. I completely agree with rushing the Extraterrestrial Colonization, furthermore I would like to elaborate on the strategy. All Peaceseekers should contribute exactly 4 production tonight. All Peacefuls should contribute all 6 production. This provides a minimum production of 66! Meaning if a Peaceseeker gets Filibustered we will still complete the project!

Futhermore, this provides Peaceseeker PRS the additional benefit of NOT BEING REVEALED! It gives the Warmongers the dilemma of killing the confirmed Peaceful or attempting to hit a hidden Peaceseeker PR.

-vote Fruit Ninja

first, what makes you think claiming peaceful day1 will do?
second, when we confirm a peaceful, if say, that peaceful is not helpful in scumhuntting, it will just help scum narrow down TPRs

[2048]

TPR doesn't mean helpful in scum hunting either! ^.-

[2048]

I'm just finding so many contraindications in the posts lately. Everyone seems to have sort of bias between the roles/factions/player types that it produces pointless opinions that only make it 'look' useful.

[Vine]

Can we, like... discuss which roles should build which projects tonight? My head is woozy trying to think about it...

*faint*

[Vine]

Shouldn't Peaceseekers build happiness buildings to prevent their charges from being used up?

I'm, like... planning to build Wonders tonight to deny scums the pleasure of using them.

*poses*

[4pics1word]

Good day, dear Sirs and Madams. I will begin reading through the day and see if I have anything to add at the end of it.

[Tapatalk]

Tapatalk is revealing your com...... So you're basically betraying yourself

I've never used tapatalk before so I doubt it.


Sent from my Microwave using Tapatalk

[Quizup]

The Peacefuls need to stop claiming. Thanks.

Hey Fruit Ninja, I exist and I'm voting for you. Tell me why my vote should be else where.

Instagram is town.
Instagram: How about you explain your reasons and we can get into mine.

[2048]

Shouldn't Peaceseekers build happiness buildings to prevent their charges from being used up?

I'm, like... planning to build Wonders tonight to deny scums the pleasure of using them.

*poses*

Finally, someone with the same thought train as me

[Tapatalk]

Shouldn't Peaceseekers build happiness buildings to prevent their charges from being used up?

I'm, like... planning to build Wonders tonight to deny scums the pleasure of using them.

*poses*

Only one wonder makes any sense to apply to a class and that's the autovest one to the crafter. Otherwise the builder would either have to ensure the completion of the hunger games or reveal himself.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Tapatalk]

Finally, someone with the same thought train as me

Alternatively TPRs can skip their night action either tonight or tomorrow, and build full production to mass entertainment for tonight and N2 and on N3 they will have +4 happiness so that they can use their night action on N3 and N4 while only having used up a single charge by that point.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Tapatalk]

To reiterate, a TPR is more valuable than a wonder, if you aren't using your night ability then you may as well be a Peaceful

Sent from my Hobovan using Tapatalk

[Fall Down]

I just did.

And yeah, the noobiness is clearly faked. Have you noticed that all of your scenarios preclude Vine being a Warmonger?

First of all, really? Honestly, using circular arguments by default have no backing, so you just literally told all of us "Yup, I think she's town cause she is." That doesn't explain anything.

And under the assumption no WIFOM is used, I would be thoroughly confused at the current moment over Vine, but yes I would think of her as scum because lying to the town's a bad, bad sign in mafia. Not necessarily Warmonger (where did you get that?) but scum. However, I don't believe this to be the case. I'm sorry if she is scum/not WIFOMing, but I don't think anyone would do such a piss poor job at day play like this. I mean I've seen examples of otherwise, but they at least try to take day seriously and don't RP every single post.

[2048]

And then it begins....

[Kik]

Fell asleep reading. Guess I was more tired than I thought. Have to go soon, but here's some stuff before I go. Some questions for the hosts:

Can production be spent on multiple buildings in one night?
If so, can production be spent on buildings that require buildings you don't have? (ex. could I put 4 into the forge and 2 in the factory for 2 nights, resulting in a finished forge with 4 already invested in the factory.)
Are top contributors always revealed? Or is it only for the Extraterrestrial Colonization peacekeeper and World Congress?

[Kik]

Did Hosts ever answer about spending production affecting happiness? If so, I missed it.

[Kik]

BTW I'm not a fan of the claiming plan. I doubt it will really hurt scum's ability to hide- they'll just claim power roles. And even if it did, we'd need everyone to claim for that to actually work, not just the peacekeepers.

[Quizup]

First of all, really? Honestly, using circular arguments by default have no backing, so you just literally told all of us "Yup, I think she's town cause she is." That doesn't explain anything.

And under the assumption no WIFOM is used, I would be thoroughly confused at the current moment over Vine, but yes I would think of her as scum because lying to the town's a bad, bad sign in mafia. Not necessarily Warmonger (where did you get that?) but scum. However, I don't believe this to be the case. I'm sorry if she is scum/not WIFOMing, but I don't think anyone would do such a piss poor job at day play like this. I mean I've seen examples of otherwise, but they at least try to take day seriously and don't RP every single post.

And there's my reasoning. I knew you would get there eventually. "Lynch all liars" is terrible advice, as townies lie all the time, whether unconsciously to support their own egos or intentionally to provoke certain responses. I for example, will often lie or at least withhold information more as town and scum.

Fall Down is townish.

[Cut the Rope]

*stunned*

Cut the Rope voted me for, like... unclear reasons.

copying meta: what meta?
of a player: who?
on a different forum: which forum?
feels very fake: I mean, like... how?

Not clever reasons to vote someone, I'm sure.

Wow... I'm pretty sure your questions indicate three things
1) That Vine is definitely faking being a newbie. You know the meaning of copying meta by asking what meta and the other items follow that.
2) That for some unknown reason Vine is only being defensive about my vote. For some reason Clash of Clans vote didn't cause Vine to be defensive.
{I am not including Fruit Ninja because there have been no posts by Vine since that timeframe}
3) That my reasoning is clear and you're digging for more information as to why. I would have expected at least a denial or you're nuts here from an experienced player or a what the hell is meta and copying it from a true newbie.

These reactions (along with the reactions of players following) cause me to believe a few things as a result:
1) At worst, Clash of Clans and yourself could be aligned Warmongers. At the least, there is some reason that you aren't defensive of their lynch vote and are of mine that really should be prodded more.
2) Quizup is buddying Vine although I don't know why. Either Quizup is from this other forum and believes Vine to be someone they aren't which would explain the weirdest about saying post 85 cinches their towniness. Post 85 IMO is a very good scum argument because Vine is picking and choosing which posts to respond to.

Furthermore in Fall Down's post that Quizup says excludes a the possibility of a Warmonger, mentions a specific possibility for a "Mafian" which I'm assuming is a warmonger. This seems very wrong to me.

3) Fall Down either knows something about the gender of Vine or picked up on the meta argument I made and believes Vine is me or is having a belief that Vine is female. I'm the only player who has openly said I'm female. TapATalk talked about waving his dick around so that presumably makes him male. Other than that I'm using gender neutral until each person says their respective gender.

Because of this I'm thinking that Vine/Clash/Quizup need some examination this evening to see what the hell is going on between these three. I like Fall Down as town because of how they are poking other players and how their responses have been written so far. But the gender mentioning to me is important.

And Vine please, start playing the game without the use of this gambit. At worst, you're copying mine from Dark Lord Potter and it's really, really annoying when it is copied like this. I still lend credence to this, because of a lack of a denial. At best, this is just some random weird gambit you came up with either on your own or with scum buddies. Based on this and the other posts that followed I am leaving my vote where it is. If you are town please give us an explanation so this can sort itself out.

To all, again we are NOT attempting to get everyone to announce what role they are or what production they are working on. It's way too early for that sort of claim. After the prior discussions in the thread, it should hopefully be painfully clear as to why.

And for those of you who haven't posted anything of substance please come on and start discussions. I really hate lurkers. Only 14/20 players have posted so far and not all of those have been substance worthy and are just hi and are not responding afterwards. I have to be out this evening with friends and would really like to have everyone posting in the thread before that point.

@Kik,
I don't think the hosts have responded to the questions posed yet. And yes, as I've stated numerous times, it's my opinion a mass claim of any sort (production or role) is not in the best interests of town and therefore I won't be participating in them.

[Fall Down]

And there's my reasoning. I knew you would get there eventually. "Lynch all liars" is terrible advice, as townies lie all the time, whether unconsciously to support their own egos or intentionally to provoke certain responses. I for example, will often lie or at least withhold information more as town and scum.

Fall Down is townish.

You didn't answer why Warmonger lol.

If there's an absolute guarantee that WIFOM isn't involved, how is lying not scummy? That's intentional skewing of the day chat, which in a game when the majority is uninformed, the information we get needs to be factual or we get mislead. It's like we'd be doing the DD's job if we lie completely about this kind of stuff. I see why lying about roles may be needed, like a Peaceful claiming TPR to attract scum or a TPR claiming Peaceful to avoid attention, but you say lying in general, which also includes lying about night feedback, ect. Unless telling the truth completely screws you over, then yeah I think the lynch all liars thing is a relatively good principle to follow.

[Fall Down]

I guess I see your point regarding reaction testing and stuff, but I don't get the ego part. If they're playing mafia to stroke their ego, no offense, but they deserve to be lynched ._.

[Vine]

Hi! I'm think, like... I'm new! Cut the Rope is a meanie.

*concentrates*

World Congress -- 60 Production
Welcome a new age of international diplomacy! When the World Congress is built, everyone who contributed at least 4 Production will gain 2 Happiness. Top contributor will gain an extra vote.

Bonus recommended for: Day revealing roles (Chief, Speaker, Marshall)
Scums interested: Actor, Disguiser, Veteran

Hunger Games -- 50 Production
With a new era comes a new entertainment! When the Hunger Games is established, everyone who contributed at least 4 Production will be able to spend 10 productions to create a one-use vest. Top contributor will earn a one-use gun.

Bonus recommended for: Anyone
Scums interested: All

Extraterrestrial Colonization -- 60 Production
Using salvaged Antebellum technology, scientists can continue to work on colonizing the Moon. When Extraterrestrial Colonization is successfully accomplished, everyone who contributed at least 4 Production will gain +2 Production per night. If Peaceseeker, Top contributor will be confirmed as Peaceseeker. Otherwise, nothing will happen. Top contributor will not be revealed in that case.

Bonus recommended for: Investigative roles (Sheriff, Investigator, Coroner, Lookout, Detective, Filibuster, Jailor)
Scums interested: All

New Great Pyramids -- 16 Production
Choose another player. You will share a night chat with that player until he/she dies. When he/she dies, you may pick another player to share a night chat with (max once).

Bonus recommended for: Anyone
Scums interested: Actor, Disguiser

New Statue of Liberty -- 16 Production
Happiness +1. You have a one-use Audit to use on another player. Hitting a Warmongers member will cause them to only be able to perform factional kills, hitting a Peaceseeker will convert them into a Peaceful, no effect on anyone else.

Bonus recommended for: Anyone
Scums interested: All

New Eiffel Tower -- 16 Production
Happiness +1. All charges of your ability are refilled. If you are a role that starts with 0 charges, you will gain 1 charge.

Bonus recommended for: Investigative and protective roles
Scums interested: Almost all

New Stonehenge -- 16 Production
Happiness + 2. All current vests you own become auto-vests.

Bonus recommended for: Anyone who received manual vests.

[Vine]

Role
	N1	N2	N3
Chief
Speaker
Marshall
Sheriff
Investigator
Coroner
Cultural
Doctor
Secret Service
Lookout
Detective
Crafter
Filibuster
Jailor
Nuclear
Peaceful

I would really love anyone who is sweet enough fill in the blanks.

*twinkle*

[Cut the Rope]

Vine...I'm done seriously. I'm not being mean I've given every chance to explain yourself gently while explaining flaws in the posts and your defense is an attack the attacker of calling me a "meanie" while claiming new when it is clearly not the case for reasons presented by multiple players. I have to go get ready for some stuff this evening but good luck with that.

In your defense your post below with the analysis does seem well thought out and I wish I had more time to compare this with my notes to see what does and doesn't align with what I have.

So if you are new and this is just really weird play, kudos for that well thought out bit. But again I should reiterate we should not say what we are going toward or not going toward. You are going to have a line blank in that sheet.

[Vine]

But again I should reiterate we should not say what we are going toward or not going toward. You are going to have a line blank in that sheet.

I don't care if you created this game, or have a teal name. I'm going to make sure all nice buildings belong to town.

*serious*

[Vine]

I will ensure that my tentacles, oops... I mean vines, are all over IPs and Wonders.

*drools*

I just love Monopoly. Scums can stick to constructing Buildings.

[Tapatalk]

Role
	N1	N2	N3
Chief
Speaker
Marshall
Sheriff
Investigator
Coroner
Cultural
Doctor
Secret Service
Lookout
Detective
Crafter
Filibuster
Jailor
Nuclear
Peaceful

I would really love anyone who is sweet enough fill in the blanks.

*twinkle*

The problem with assigning a wonder to a role is we don't know which roles are even in the game. It is possible there are 0 doctors, though likely.

Furthermore, you need to consider the short term. Power roles are better off building happiness structures to use their abilities as many times as possible before they die.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Instagram]

Will everyone actually do this; is the problem.

In all honesty I probably would not myself.

Yes they would, this strategy provides Peaceseeker PRS with a significant ROI, by day 3 they are still able to complete any wonder they may have desired. They also have 2 increased production for the rest of the game. It provides Peacefuls like me their investment is returned by day 4. They also have 2 increased production for the rest of the game. For those interested in game theory this is a strictly dominant strategy for Peacefuls, meaning regardless of what the warmongers does this strategy will be best for us.

Side-note:
@2048 I do not consider you to be Warmonger for your opinion, I simply believe you lacked important information in reaching the optimal conclusion.

[Fruit Ninja]

Yo yo yo I'm back, gonna re-read through day chat and posts my thoughts in a bit.

[Quizup]

You didn't answer why Warmonger lol.

If there's an absolute guarantee that WIFOM isn't involved, how is lying not scummy? That's intentional skewing of the day chat, which in a game when the majority is uninformed, the information we get needs to be factual or we get mislead. It's like we'd be doing the DD's job if we lie completely about this kind of stuff. I see why lying about roles may be needed, like a Peaceful claiming TPR to attract scum or a TPR claiming Peaceful to avoid attention, but you say lying in general, which also includes lying about night feedback, ect. Unless telling the truth completely screws you over, then yeah I think the lynch all liars thing is a relatively good principle to follow.

I may not be up to date on the rules. Don't tell anyone.
Tl:dr - Lies should evaluated like all things, on a case by case basis. In this case, it makes Vine town.

Cut the Rope: It's a poor enough imitation that I doubt it's meant to be one.

[Instagram]

The Peacefuls need to stop claiming. Thanks.

Hey Fruit Ninja, I exist and I'm voting for you. Tell me why my vote should be else where.

Instagram is town.
Instagram: How about you explain your reasons and we can get into mine.

You aren't actually voting Fruit Ninja, please look into vote tags. Thanks!

P.S. My reasons for voting Fruit Ninja are intentionally hidden, this early in the game I believe it would be more harmful than good. I do however expect others to consider my FOS and read Fruit Ninja in order to develop their own opinions.

[Fruit Ninja]

Vine seems to be desiring order, more than anything else.

This makes me believe that she is either
1. The Doomsday Killer, and is attempting to single out targets in the most orderly way possible
2. Chief/Speaker/Marshall/Citizen, and is being an idiot.
3. Warmonger, and is attempting to single out targets so the rest of them can prioritize who to kill/target

Ordered in likely hood, from my believe.

[Fruit Ninja]

Because Vine is a potential threat to our day chat anyways I believe we should lynch her.

[Snapchat]

Hey everyone I am here. Was having some computer troubles. Gonna read through 3 pages of posts

[Fall Down]

@Quizup Fair enough, but I fail to see what exactly about this particular gambit/lie makes her town particularly.

@Fruit Ninja I've got a few problems with your FOS.
1) How does order point to Doomsday? I think it's a good idea to try and come up with the most logical buildings, and while I think Vine is going at it a little wrong by trying to say each role should build X building, I think she's fine trying to come up with the general concept.
2) You do realize there's a hefty price to pay for MLing, right? I find it kind of hard you can be that certain on someone to lynch with absolutely no night evidence when the price of failing is an extra life lost in addition to the ML in the first place.
3) If you want her lynched, then why didn't you vote her?

[Fall Down]

Never mind about point three, I saw you voted her. But the other two still stand as points.

[Fruit Ninja]

The Doomsday is specially designed for destroying order. Simply destroy key targets and the town will panic.

What is MLing?

[Fall Down]

ML = Mislynching.

And when you say key targets, what do you mean by that? I'm guessing key people? I don't see how buildings affect what the Doomsday targets.

[Snapchat]

First, I think Vine is town based on her posts. They seem to be forced to act suspicious. By that I mean I think the way she is playing is intentional.

Second, I think priority lynch has to go to doomsday. He is essentially a godfather neutral because he is immune to night detections and he has to bonus of getting more kills if we mislynch a citizen and if we kill all the mafia too fast. I'm not saying that we should not lynch mafia if we find them, but we need to be actively looking for him because he could hurt us a lot more than mafia could.