Arsonist can kill himself

[MrMostache]

Arsonist can kill himself due to the "people who are visited by doused people will burn the same night of the burning".
I do understand that Arsonist needed the buffs, but this buff, even as an option, is kinda an overkill.

[kyle1234513]

i think the idea behind this was that it was to place the arsons KPN on par with the MM and the serial killer. consider this, the serial killers is one, the MM's is 1, 0, or greater than 1. which averages to say 1 if 1 night between spree is on. and the arsons can only ever equal 14/15ths over a 15day game (less than 1). and on average the arsons KPN was between .33 to .5 where over a 6night game the arson would burn 2 or 3 people. thats way less than what the sk or MM could do.

so this can be overpowered, it could cause the arsons KPN to be greater than one, but in my opinion this buff puts him right where he should be. and makes it no more OP than a MM spree chance killing 14 people on night 1.

and as for arson killing himself, well this should still grant hoist achievement, 150points so its kinda worth it.

[Helz]

i think the idea behind this was that it was to place the arsons KPN on par with the MM and the serial killer. consider this, the serial killers is one, the MM's is 1, 0, or greater than 1. which averages to say 1 if 1 night between spree is on. and the arsons can only ever equal 14/15ths over a 15day game (less than 1). and on average the arsons KPN was between .33 to .5 where over a 6night game the arson would burn 2 or 3 people. thats way less than what the sk or MM could do.

so this can be overpowered, it could cause the arsons KPN to be greater than one, but in my opinion this buff puts him right where he should be. and makes it no more OP than a MM spree chance killing 14 people on night 1.

and as for arson killing himself, well this should still grant hoist achievement, 150points so its kinda worth it.

I would say it is less than .3 on average. Most players as an arson douse all game and ignite only when they can win. During this time some of the doused people die and all too often the arson is lynched or killed before he can ignite. With these new mechanics its worth it to ignite much more often..

[MrMostache]

Arsonist in this way is very beatable. Basically, all people have to do is visit arsonist to counter him.
Let's say I have 2/3 mafia doused and I'm burning this night. All the mafia have to do is visit me and win.

[Dark.Revenant]

Or you could just make the Arsonist invulnerable and make his burnings not pierce immunity.

[MrMostache]

Or you could just make the Arsonist invulnerable and make his burnings not pierce immunity.

Definitely not. Arsonist has always been special because of his ability pierce immunity. Not to mention that this might cause a lot of stalemates.
(Dh, Gf Arso or Gf, Arso, exe)

[Cryptonic]

Definitely not. Arsonist has always been special because of his ability pierce immunity. Not to mention that this might cause a lot of stalemates.
(Dh, Gf Arso or Gf, Arso, exe)

Um, Arsonist was given the special ability to pierce immunity because he had a KPN < 1. He needed the buff to make him not completely useless when compared to SK. Now that his KPN can be > 1, the piercing immunity is not needed.
Also, how can there be stalemates? 1:1 results in ties in which the Arsonist would win.

[MrMostache]

Stalemates occurs in the examples I have given (assuming exe refuse to vote).
I understand that arsonist has been buffed considerably (dousing roleblockers and eliminating entire factions) and that he needed those buffs.
But if he can be easily countered at night, then it's all for naught.

[Cryptonic]

Stalemates occurs in the examples I have given (assuming exe refuse to vote).
I understand that arsonist has been buffed considerably (dousing roleblockers and eliminating entire factions) and that he needed those buffs.
But if he can be easily countered at night, then it's all for naught.

Yes, but he can't be countered if his burns don't pierce immunity. His targets will still die.
You examples are bad because the SAME situation can happen with GF & SK & Exec, and SK can't ever pierce immunity.

[Xentios]

Definitely not. Arsonist has always been special because of his ability pierce immunity. Not to mention that this might cause a lot of stalemates.
(Dh, Gf Arso or Gf, Arso, exe)

So young, So naive. My son, you would not even realise a stalemate even if it was your nose.

Citizen without vest, Dh who can't kill and a normal Gf , this is a stalemate.

Dh,gf,arso or Gf,arso,exe is not a stalemate.

[McKinley]

Nah. The real stalemate is when it's 2 doctors versus GF and blackmailer.

That shit is fucking annoying.

Anyways... yeah. If you enable Arsonist to kill the targets of his victims, then you should disable immunity pierce. Otherwise, you just enabled the Arsonist to kill within the range of 2-5 people (given a very rough estimate with a few years of mental history on how cluster-fuckery it can be with people targeting the same person... example: Veteran taking down ten people N1...) on night 2 alone. No one killing role should be permitted in any setup to have an extraordinary performance early game without draw-backs. This is up to the host, and players involved, to ensure such setups are properly balanced, when using a custom save slot.