MFM Opinion Poll #1

[Cryptonic]

MFM Opinion Poll #1:

Topic: Whether or not preapproved SFMs are a realistic idea.


The idea of preapproved SFMs is to evolve our FM community so that we have a wider range of game types, hopefully encouraging new players to our site. The preapproved games would be small games, around 7-10 Players, with a completely open setup and be directed more towards post analysis. Users will be able to suggest setups to be added to the list of preapproved games, and discussions may lead to the removal of others. My hopes are that we, the FM community, will tweak current and future setups that favor one side, and either make them more balanced or replace them with a more balanced setup. With statistics obtained over repetitive playing, we can get a good group of setups that can be run added to the preapproved list.

Current SFMs would still be the place to create a unique setup for players to enjoy.

If this change is accepted, the preapproved SFMs would probably need a name and new acronym. So, suggestions for this too would be accepted.

To ensure that this section would run smoothly, these were my thoughts for moderation:
1) Hosts cannot host multiple games at once.
2) Hosts can only have one signup open at any give time.
3) Signups will remain open for 5 days. If they do not fill within those 5 days, the signup will be removed.
4) If a game does not have a post within the last 48 hours, the game will be marked as abandoned and closed.


Please, vote on the poll and post any ideas, concerns, or support below in this topic.
As a note, the outcome of this poll does not guarantee that this change will be implemented.

[ika]

i think this is a good idea as i suggested before in the chat, it stuck me when i think POD asked for more approval that being said, i know a few that we could use offhand

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...FM-Small-Round

or we could use the one form the tournament thread

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...-FM-Tournament

that also being said, i can probally think of a few that could be made that are more post analsis if anything. but i have to sit around. when im less tired i will post more, but i like the idea but scince we are doin 2 m-fm it should be held off till the 2nd one starts and is a few days in, i also suggest we do this with FM 20 and onward.

another idea is along with the baisc ones that can just be easy done have maybe one unique as well that on que to go/be looked at so we can keep it going.

[Slaol]

The loss of some variety would be a negative, but the eventual impact of repetition and statistics on a greater level should allow for more balanced games in the future. Some games go one particular way because of a single player or night action and then the game will have a permanent impact on how the players and host think, basically strictly around a single lucky/unlucky dice roll. More games that are similar and discussed will be a good thing in the long run.

[Cryptonic]

The loss of some variety would be a negative, but the eventual impact of repetition and statistics on a greater level should allow for more balanced games in the future. Some games go one particular way because of a single player or night action and then the game will have a permanent impact on how the players and host think, basically strictly around a single lucky/unlucky dice roll. More games that are similar and discussed will be a good thing in the long run.

Yes, and that's why games would be tweaked to become as balanced as possible. I'd rather it be a coin toss than a dice roll. The more balanced a game is, the more people need to rely on posting to win a game. I do expect strategies to be made, but I also expect counter strategies to be made.

[Sen]

Sounds great.

The setup that I used for ♥ is the most balanced one out there (with a starting 50% chance of each faction winning), and it's also entirely based on behavioral analysis, so that one is a most.

[ika]

Yes, but that's why games would be tweaked to become as balanced as possible. I'd rather it be a coin toss than a dice roll. The more balanced a game is, the more people need to rely on posting to win a game. I do expect strategies to be made, but I also expect counter strategies to be made.

i think if we have the "ballenced" be available for get gos and can be quickly churned out duing dead times, we should also allow the flexabiltiy of uniques. during the non-busy times (poll, signup for FM, not big events)

i think iff we can find a ballence between uniques setups coming out and what im going to call the "generic" setup would allow us to maximize it, i think if we did 100% basic or 100% unique it will be more negative, recently from what i have seen is that a lot of us have been tryint o experiment with somethign new and more away from what would be considered "normal"

i love the unique setups becasue its something new and makes me think diffrently becasue of how it works, but there are time where i do like to sit down and have a nice normal save

[Slaol]

Yes, but that's why games would be tweaked to become as balanced as possible. I'd rather it be a coin toss than a dice roll. The more balanced a game is, the more people need to rely on posting to win a game. I do expect strategies to be made, but I also expect counter strategies to be made.

? I was agreeing. lol.
I was saying that currently games conclude with only a single observation, but more game of the same setup is a +1.

[Cryptonic]

No, there will be no unique games possible.
The SFM board & Queue will still stand to allow users to play custom & unique setups, but this won't be the place for it.
If the setup can be open and proven to be balanced on paper, it may be allowed to join the list of preapproved games and get some test runs.

[Cryptonic]

? I was agreeing. lol.
I was saying that currently games conclude with only a single observation, but more game of the same setup is a +1.

I was agreeing with/expanding on what you said lol. Sorry, my "but" should be an "and" lol.

[ika]

No, there will be no unique games possible.
The SFM board & Queue will still stand to allow users to play custom & unique setups, but this won't be the place for it.
If the setup can be open and proven to be balanced on paper, it may be allowed to join the list of preapproved games and get some test runs.

so there would still be the current board (the one that has the giant list we have now) as well as a new board that has the ballenced ones?

i think i got myself confused on it

[Slaol]

No, there will be no unique games possible.
The SFM board & Queue will still stand to allow users to play custom & unique setups, but this won't be the place for it.
If the setup can be open and proven to be balanced on paper, it may be allowed to join the list of preapproved games and get some test runs.

How open do you want the setups to be?

[Cryptonic]

so there would still be the current board (the one that has the giant list we have now) as well as a new board that has the ballenced ones?

i think i got myself confused on it

Yes, the current idea is that it will be it's own separate entity. The SFM Setup Approvals & Queue will still be here for players that wish to make their own unique & hidden setup. The preapproved games will not need to be put through a queue; whether the signups fill or not will measure the interest in a game.

How open do you want the setups to be?

The games should be completely open, so that the balance remains the same from one game to the next.

[ika]

Yes, the current idea is that it will be it's own separate entity. The SFM Setup Approvals & Queue will still be here for players that wish to make their own unique & hidden setup. The preapproved games will not need to be put through a queue; whether the signups fill or not will measure the interest in a game.




The games should be completely open, so that the balance remains the same from one game to the next.

OK that makes more sense for me, im wondering if we could use the s-fm ladder account to keep track as well. have a counter of how many has been played, each faction winm ect. or i can do it alone, i willhave to see if POD/porio would want o help me with it. if not i can mangae it alone.

i have to try to think of some setups that could be "ballenced" we have those 2 but i am trying to think of setups where we can have a possiblity for a neutral

[Cryptonic]

It shouldn't be a problem to record what faction wins/loses each game. I'll let you know if I need help keeping information if this passes.

[ika]

It shouldn't be a problem to record what faction wins/loses each game. I'll let you know if I need help keeping information if this passes.

mkay.

[Helz]

I think it could go a long way to improve our player skill if we took a little more time to critique each others plays post game. When I played sc competitively I would do this with my clan and it always lead to improvement.

Almost off topic but I felt it was worth mentioning.

[ika]

I think it could go a long way to improve our player skill if we took a little more time to critique each others plays post game. When I played sc competitively I would do this with my clan and it always lead to improvement.

Almost off topic but I felt it was worth mentioning.

i will quickly touch on this becasue i dont want it to become another topic entirly, if its something that we could ttalk about we can make a new topic, but critique can sometimes lead to some really harsh attacks or people becoming really defensive. I have seen a few post game comments that have sparked some "harsh" remarks

[Helz]

i will quickly touch on this becasue i dont want it to become another topic entirly, if its something that we could ttalk about we can make a new topic, but critique can sometimes lead to some really harsh attacks or people becoming really defensive. I have seen a few post game comments that have sparked some "harsh" remarks

I understand. That makes a lot of sense.

[Cryptonic]

People often PM me after games, asking for critique. It's not something I like to give unless asked lol.

[louiswill]

This is some regulations that may lead to an improvement of all FM.

I would vote approve.

However, even if some setup is not balanced but if players feed back positively, I think those could stay.

Rather than mutually ban those which are statistic disapproving why not provide those to hosts and players information, so that they will make change themselves?

Otherwise this action will only lead to another burden to staffs which may also causing criticize from hosts and players.

I think it would be a better idea to ask players and hosts take actions rather than staffs.
i.e.:
require host post previous game states in their sign up.

[Sen]

People often PM me after games, asking for critique. It's not something I like to give unless asked lol.

Same. I usually only give my thoughts on whoever I vote for MVP.
Some people get mad when you point out flaws in their play, so unless explicitly asked to, I won't be doing this.

About balanced setups, I can compile you a list of the most balanced ones that I know if this gets approved.

[CarolinaCrown]

Same. I usually only give my thoughts on whoever I vote for MVP.
Some people get mad when you point out flaws in their play, so unless explicitly asked to, I won't be doing this.

About balanced setups, I can compile you a list of the most balanced ones that I know if this gets approved.

Personally I'd enjoy it if I got some critique. I'm better at learning by watching others, so I can't really gauge my own play very well. I'd really love to have a section of the site that really is about solid practice and getting better.

[ika]

Personally I'd enjoy it if I got some critique. I'm better at learning by watching others, so I can't really gauge my own play very well. I'd really love to have a section of the site that really is about solid practice and getting better.

that i could see, a place where you ask for critque much like answer hall where only you can see your post, and only the person can see their own post (if possible) becasue like i have said, sometimes critque can cause some unessacary heat/attacks. but really i do belive best idea is though pms if we cant

[Poriomania]

directed more towards post analysis.

behavioral analysis,

This is all great.

I have a couple of ideas for play critique that I can send out later today.

[ika]

so i just noticed the poll is closed and the votes have been casted, is this going to be a thing that we will be expect soon or what is the stauts on this?

[Cryptonic]

so i just noticed the poll is closed and the votes have been casted, is this going to be a thing that we will be expect soon or what is the stauts on this?

It was just an opinion poll. As stated in the OP, the outcome will not determine if this will get implemented or not.
I TRY MY BEST THO

[Poriomania]

Could a "test run" be implemented to see if this would be a good idea?

[ika]

I WILL DO MY BEST TO MAKE IT HAPPEN

fixed it for you ;)

[Cryptonic]

fixed it for you ;)

i has no real power. all i can do is annoy people until they go "ARG FINE STFU!" and implement stuff.

@ Porio, I'm not really sure what a test run would prove. This idea is more to relieve down time & increase basic skill.

[ika]

i has no real power. all i can do is annoy people until they go "ARG FINE STFU!" and implement stuff.

@ Porio, I'm not really sure what a test run would prove. This idea is more to relieve down time & increase basic skill.

But isnt that how things always work, you annoy the higher ups constantly untill they do it. we could get a bunch of up to annoy the people so they could do it sooner XD

i wish they could give you the power to make a subform for us in this topic so we can implement it, i think it would end up being very good

[Cryptonic]

lol no please don't annoy anyone for matters like these.
These things take time lol. This could be done in the SFM section, but I'm afraid it will be highly unorganized to mix the two. Don't want to risk it. Plus, it'd be better to have a place to organize preapproved setups than to mix them up in setup approvals.

Yes, it would be good If I could do that, but that can't be done without giving powers that are way above my level. I checked to see if ACP could be partitioned to allow someone access to specific areas of it, but I already assumed it would be impossible lol. It was.

[Cryptonic]

ANYWAYS, does anyone have any thoughts on names?
We have Mini Forum Mafia, Simple Forum Mafia, and these would be _____ Forum Mafia...
Basic? Tiny?
I'm open to suggestions and thoughts.

[Bunny]

ANYWAYS, does anyone have any thoughts on names?
We have Mini Forum Mafia, Simple Forum Mafia, and these would be _____ Forum Mafia...
Basic? Tiny?
I'm open to suggestions and thoughts.

weiny, underdeveloped, minute. how about micro! pocketsized, petite, atomic, itsy-bitsy, microscopic, baby sized, dinky, dwarf. little sfm big world.

[Bunny]

weiny, underdeveloped, minute. how about micro! pocketsized, petite, atomic, itsy-bitsy, microscopic, baby sized, dinky, dwarf. little sfm big world.

pre-pubescent forum mafia

[louiswill]

Alternative Forum Mafia

AFM

[Damus_Graves]

Basic Forum Mafia {BFMs}

[powerofdeath]

PoD FM, of course

[louiswill]

Core Forum Mafia
CFM

[ika]

SS-FM

super simple

[Cryptonic]

I liked Micro, but then it's just M-FM again lol.
I think we'll go with Basic-FM if approved.

[Bunny]

I liked Micro, but then it's just M-FM again lol.
I think we'll go with Basic-FM if approved.

what about all my other suggestions though. WHAT ABOUT THOSE. DO THEY NOT COUNT FOR ANYTHING?

[Poriomania]

I liked Micro, but then it's just M-FM again lol.
I think we'll go with Basic-FM if approved.

I like Basic-FM.

[Muso]

Can't vote in poll

[Muso]

Oh this was a month ago

[Cryptonic]

Well, I put in a formal request for this change, but I am still unsure whether or not a new section will be made. However, if COM doesn't find this warrants a new section, I can let it slide that we host these in the SFM section. I just worry that the setups would get lost within the other forums lol.
So, feel free to post some ideas for setups in this topic.
Remember to keep the games small and simple: no redirection, limited or no neutrals, simple roles only. :3

[ika]

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...FM-Small-Round

that one works fine, i think there was a thread you had about simple ones somewhere

[ika]

Spoiler : found it :

Game #1

Mafioso
Mafioso
Sheriff
Doctor
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

Mechanics:
Game starts night one.
Days last up to 48 hours.
Nights last 24 hours.
Mafia has a night chat.

Points:
Mafia win = 21
Mafia loss = 10
Town win = 20
Town loss = 10



Game #2

Mafioso
Mafioso
Sheriff
Vigilante
Vigilante
Citizen
Citizen

Mechanics:
Game starts night one.
Days last up to 48 hours.
Nights last 24 hours
Mafia has a night chat.
Vigilantes can't shoot night one.

Points:
Mafia win = 20
Mafia loss = 10
Town win = 20
Town loss = 10



Game #3


Mafioso
Consort
Sheriff
Doctor
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

Mechanics:
Game starts day one with lynch.
Days last up to 48 hours.
Nights last 24 hours.
Mafia has a night chat.

Points:
Mafia win = 18
Mafia loss = 9
Town win = 22
Town loss = 11



Game #4

Mafioso
Mafioso
Macho Cop
Doctor
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

Mechanics:
Game starts day one with lynch.
Days last up to 48 hours.
Nights last 24 hours.
Mafia has a night chat.

Points:
Mafia win = 21
Mafia loss = 10
Town win = 19
Town loss = 10

Game #5


? if I can find a good one with stats.
If you know of a good setup that has available win-loss statistics (simple town vs mafia, maybe a lone neutral), then please suggest.

Rolecards:
Mafioso
Night Action: May be sent for the Mafia's factional night kill.

Consort
Night Action: Target one person at night, roleblocking them.
Info: If alone, the Consort may block and kill the same night.

Sheriff
Night Action: Target one person at night, discovering their alignment.
Info: Gets results as Mafia/Town.

Macho Cop
Night Action: Target one person at night, discovering their alignment.
Info: Gets results as Mafia/Town.
Cannot be healed.

Doctor
Night Action: Target one person at night, protecting them from attacks.
Info: The Doctor is not informed if healing was successful or not.

Vigilante
Night Action: Target one person at night, killing them.
Info: May not shoot until night two.

Citizen
Night Action: None.



Order of Operations:
1. Consort
2. All kills
3. Doctor
4. Sheriff




Idea:

14 players + reserves. If you're modkilled/replaced, you're out.
Players are randomized and 2 7P games go at once (same setup). Next game, players are randomized again.
If a reserve swaps in, retains old player's points.
Person who has the most points at the end of game 3(4?)(5?) wins.
Bunny & I will host the games.

/discuss
/interest?

this is from your tornament thread. we could use these

[Poriomania]

*puts setup balance hat on*

Overturn to Riddler is fairly well-balanced - been hosted around 4 times (some on mafiascum, some on other sites) and it's a simple, solid setup.

Mafioso
Mafioso
Sheriff
Doctor
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

This is imbalanced - Sheriff claims D1, town no lynches, while Sheriff checks players and the Doc heals the Sheriff. Follow the Cop is not fun.

Make the Mafia have a global roleblock (Any mafia may roleblock, when there's one mafioso, that mafioso can roleblock AND kill).

Mafioso
Mafioso
Sheriff
Vigilante
Vigilante
Citizen
Citizen

I've never seen this setup played, needs to be test-runned.

Game #3


Mafioso
Consort
Sheriff
Doctor
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

Yeah, make the roleblock global so that the mafia doesn't die Day 1 if their Consort is lynched.

Mafioso
Mafioso
Macho Cop
Doctor
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

Clunky solution, would still like to see this setup test runned.

Basically anything here has been balanced and can be played, though might have to adjust for shorter Days.

[Poriomania]

This is also balanced, but it's rather non-stimulating for both town and mafia.

Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Mafioso

Pregame, the mafioso selects someone to recruit. The game begins with 10 citizens and 2 mafioso.

Rather taxing game.

[Slaol]

This is also balanced, but it's rather non-stimulating for both town and mafia.

Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Mafioso

Pregame, the mafioso selects someone to recruit. The game begins with 10 citizens and 2 mafioso.

Rather taxing game.

Why not just 10 Citizens and 2 Mafioso instead of the recruit thing?