S-FM Ladder Replacement Opinion Poll

[Cryptonic]

It has been brought up that people don't feel that them asking to be replaced in an SFM should count as a -5 on the Ladder. To gauge what everyone feels, I decided to create a poll. Please express why you think it should count, or not count, below after you vote. If you're just voting and not expressing your opinion, I will not count your vote.


Obviously, when personal reasons arise, it's hard to say that the person deserves a -5. However, there are other cases such as:

• Player doesn't want to partake in the game anymore.
• Player doesn't have the time due to other SFM involvement.

Also, we would have to be aware of people asking to be replaced when they are certain they will be losing the game in order to save their record. It's really hard to differentiate between each of these different scenarios, which is why any and all replacements and dishonoring of /signs have been resulting in a -5.


Please vote and express your opinion below.

[ika]

It has been brought up that people don't feel that them asking to be replaced in an SFM should count as a -5 on the Ladder. To gauge what everyone feels, I decided to create a poll. Please express why you think it should count, or not count, below after you vote. If you're just voting and not expressing your opinion, I will not count your vote.


Obviously, when personal reasons arise, it's hard to say that the person deserves a -5. However, there are other cases such as:

• Player doesn't want to partake in the game anymore.
• Player doesn't have the time due to other SFM involvement.

Also, we would have to be aware of people asking to be replaced when they are certain they will be losing the game in order to save their record. It's really hard to differential between each of these different scenarios, which is why any and all replacements and dishonoring of /signs have been resulting in a -5.


Please vote and express your opinion below.

I think its very situational when it comes to the replacing. I think if someone ask for replace it is up for the host to decide if they should be penalized for the replace. It should show on the record, however for ladder it should be a host dicression along with maybe some discussion with the mods of the fm threads. If they get replaced due to inactivity it should be penalized accordingly (maybe like -3 or -2), if they request replace for reason X it could be either pardoned or something like only -1.

Overall i think that it should be penalized but should be not as serious as modkill. It is up to host as well as calborations with the fm mods to decide what the penaply should be.

Howvere on a big fm (like the one going on now) should always be -5 if it accounted for unless if person has very good reason.

[AppleyNO]

Yes, but only if the reason that person is leaving was in the control of said person.

[ika]

I also rememebr bork wanted host to send to him who was lurk/replace/modkilled for the history thin (i admit i have been bad with that). If we could get host to do it and if someone was replaced the host could explain why to bork and then he could colaberate on it and decide if it is deemed worthly to lose points over.

[Slaol]

The poll options do not reflect the situation, since you have stated that there is a blatant difference between certain scenarios.
I will vote no because in most cases of requesting it I feel it is with good/necessary intentions.
However you have said you want hosts to message you information anyways. I think simply asking for a 'honorable/dishonorable discharge' type of message for each replace would do the trick.
Maybe my rage in 82 was not honorable, and 42shadow42 determines so. -5
But Damus was penalized for his replacing out in creeds Questions. This was, as creed said, stated by Damus as his strategy from the beginning, and his faction did win.

My vote is to have the hosts state it if they think it warrants the -5 or not.

[ika]

The poll options do not reflect the situation, since you have stated that there is a blatant difference between certain scenarios.
I will vote no because in most cases of requesting it I feel it is with good/necessary intentions.
However you have said you want hosts to message you information anyways. I think simply asking for a 'honorable/dishonorable discharge' type of message for each replace would do the trick.
Maybe my rage in 82 was not honorable, and 42shadow42 determines so. -5
But Damus was penalized for his replacing out in creeds Questions. This was, as creed said, stated by Damus as his strategy from the beginning, and his faction did win.

My vote is to have the hosts state it if they think it warrants the -5 or not.

So leave it up to host dicression? Thats an ok idea but it has to be calborated between the player, host, and fm mods to decide overall it it warrents a negative impact.

[Cryptonic]

I think its very situational when it comes to the replacing. I think if someone ask for replace it is up for the host to decide if they should be penalized for the replace. It should show on the record, however for ladder it should be a host dicression along with maybe some discussion with the mods of the fm threads. If they get replaced due to inactivity it should be penalized accordingly (maybe like -3 or -2), if they request replace for reason X it could be either pardoned or something like only -1.

Overall i think that it should be penalized but should be not as serious as modkill. It is up to host as well as calborations with the fm mods to decide what the penaply should be.

Howvere on a big fm (like the one going on now) should always be -5 if it accounted for unless if person has very good reason.

While it's a good idea, I think scaling points on a case by case basis will definitely cause problems. The point system should be set in stone before each season to ensure fairness.

Yes, but only if the reason that person is leaving was in the control of said person.

I agree with this. If the -5 stays, players being replaced (and not wanting it to count on the ladder) will just have to PM me and disclose their reason for quitting the game. I wouldn't count these towards a total.

[Cryptonic]

The poll options do not reflect the situation, since you have stated that there is a blatant difference between certain scenarios.
I will vote no because in most cases of requesting it I feel it is with good/necessary intentions.
However you have said you want hosts to message you information anyways. I think simply asking for a 'honorable/dishonorable discharge' type of message for each replace would do the trick.
Maybe my rage in 82 was not honorable, and 42shadow42 determines so. -5
But Damus was penalized for his replacing out in creeds Questions. This was, as creed said, stated by Damus as his strategy from the beginning, and his faction did win.

My vote is to have the hosts state it if they think it warrants the -5 or not.

I am completely against host discretion as the bias on this site can be horrific.

So leave it up to host dicression? Thats an ok idea but it has to be calborated between the player, host, and fm mods to decide overall it it warrents a negative impact.

This is a better idea, as it's not leaving it 100% up to the hosts. Hosts input is valued, but I won't be just taking whatever a host says and applying it. If a player requests to quit a game when they are fully capable of playing it, then it deserves -5 in my opinion.

[ika]

While it's a good idea, I think scaling points on a case by case basis will definitely cause problems. The point system should be set in stone before each season to ensure fairness.

replaced due to inactivity: -3
replaced by request (with vaild reasoning): -1

something like that?

@the bias thing

that is why i would reccomend that it becomes a calboration between the host, the player in question, and the fm mods.

or like you said they pm a fm mod on why they are being/requestion replace and decide from there.

[Cryptonic]

replaced due to inactivity: -3
replaced by request (with vaild reasoning): -1

something like that?

@the bias thing

that is why i would reccomend that it becomes a calboration between the host, the player in question, and the fm mods.

or like you said they pm a fm mod on why they are being/requestion replace and decide from there.

Yes, I added in a response to you above.

Hmm ok, well I think that replacement due to inactivity should still be -5, as it's basically a modkill.
And if there is a valid reason for asking for a replacement, then I think it shouldn't count as all. However, I am not ever informed of the reasoning.

NB:
Medical Emergency, Family Emergency, ect = valid reason
Exams, Not enough time, ect = invalid reason (players should be aware of their schedule and not sign to begin with.

[ika]

Yes, I added in a response to you above.

Hmm ok, well I think that replacement due to inactivity should still be -5, as it's basically a modkill.
And if there is a valid reason for asking for a replacement, then I think it shouldn't count as all. However, I am not ever informed of the reasoning.

NB:
Medical Emergency, Family Emergency, ect = valid reason
Exams, Not enough time, ect = invalid reason (players should be aware of their schedule and not sign to begin with.

Ok, that i can agree with. It would just have to be dealt with each situation.

But then a new question arises, what if day 1 and 2 they are active, then day 3 and 4 they get replaced for being inactive? would it still be -5? Most players don't suddenly become inactive from active unless something happened.

or if they request replace for one of the invalid reasons they get a less penalty.

flat out replace -5
the invalid (not enough time, exams, ect) -3
the valid (medical, faimly) -0

[Slaol]

Crypt, collaboration between host and judges is also fine. Bias is a thing, but this should get around it.

[Damus_Graves]

I would suggest having a time frame where a person can PM you saying their reason for getting replaced, such as an example of creeds game where I gambit'd day one claim n' rage to throw people off guard then replaced out to clem who proceeded to roflstomp the game into a mafia win. That would ensure that everyone is heard fairly and things can move smoother.

No PM/Modkilled -5
Valid Reasons -1
Invalid Reaons -3

Invalid Reasons: Didn't want to play, Didn't care, Hated X Person.
Valid Reasons: Family, Health, Lack of Internet.

[creedkingsx]

Can't prove if anything is valid or otherwise.
There already is bias because hosts can technically choose MVP's themselves.
Edit: I say leave as is, just differentiate the marks in a person's card between replaced and modkill solely because they are two distinctly different things.

[Cryptonic]

Can't prove if anything is valid or otherwise.
There already is bias because hosts can technically choose MVP's themselves.
Edit: I say leave as is, just differentiate the marks in a person's card between replaced and modkill solely because they are two distinctly different things.

Player's choice is currently used above Host's choice for MVP. That was a topic of debate last season, if anyone else wants to weigh in on that subject, too... lol

But OK, I am able to separate the two categories.

[Cryptonic]

I would suggest having a time frame where a person can PM you saying their reason for getting replaced, such as an example of creeds game where I gambit'd day one claim n' rage to throw people off guard then replaced out to clem who proceeded to roflstomp the game into a mafia win. That would ensure that everyone is heard fairly and things can move smoother.

No PM/Modkilled -5
Valid Reasons -1
Invalid Reaons -3

Invalid Reasons: Didn't want to play, Didn't care, Hated X Person.
Valid Reasons: Family, Health, Lack of Internet.

Little off topic, but I roflstomped that game :P
I don't think that quitting a game for that reason was legitimate. You /signed to play a game, and then dropped out when you could have continued playing.

Also, I don't think lack of interest is a valid reason to quit a game. Didn't care = lack of interest, to me.

[NoctiZ]

Little off topic, but I roflstomped that game :P
I don't think that quitting a game for that reason was legitimate. You /signed to play a game, and then dropped out when you could have continued playing.

Also, I don't think lack of interest is a valid reason to quit a game. Didn't care = lack of interest, to me.

A little off topic but what roflstomped the game was the mishap with the feedback which made me believe that we had our suspects when in reality, after having everything sorted out, we only had the cit vs cit suspect. :P

[Cryptonic]

A little off topic but what roflstomped the game was the mishap with the feedback which made me believe that we had our suspects when in reality, after having everything sorted out, we only had the cit vs cit suspect. :P

hey, my strat was working perfectly. Then you said you got wrong feedback, so I had to lie and say I read my feedback wrong to match yours :P
also, i got wrong feedback and thought RLVG was my scum buddy the entire game... lol

[Damus_Graves]

Internet crypt. Internet

[Cryptonic]

Internet crypt. Internet

LOL you editted that *cough*

[ypmagic]

Having to be replaced means the player broke his or her responsibility as a player when signing up. You shouldn't sign up in the first place if you might not be able to play. Maybe some exceptions like family emergencies or your bleeding and about to die.

[CmG]

No it shouldn't be punished. Better get people replaced with somebody who has the time to play. Nobody needs shit ass lurkers which are useless for the game. Real life can be a bitch sometimes. Punish people who don't get themselves replaced and are just a drag. Games have already a reserve list for people who back out of games. It's legit to get yourself replaced. Just give them like 1 - 2 unpunished replacement possibilities. If they get themselves more than 1 - 2 replaced in a season punish them.

[powerofdeath]

Hmm, replaced with no reasons at all should be punished, but being replaced with a reason should get 0 points from that game, even though his faction won the game.
Not going to vote because its a little bit of both and based on situations.

[creedkingsx]

Hmm, replaced with no reasons at all should be punished, but being replaced with a reason should get 0 points from that game, even though his faction won the game.
Not going to vote because its a little bit of both and based on situations.

If you need to be replaced due to inactivity, it is essential a modkill that didn't affect the game. :P

[BorkBot]

Hmm, replaced with no reasons at all should be punished, but being replaced with a reason should get 0 points from that game, even though his faction won the game.
Not going to vote because its a little bit of both and based on situations.

This is the post I'm most in agreement with. If someone can provide a good reason why something came up that keeps them from being able to play, then that's understandable. But if people sign up and then just don't feel like playing anymore, that's a different story.