Replacement Roles: Cop and Informant for Coroner and Spy

[maccabbe]

Role name: Cop
Description: Part of the local law enforcement who keeps track of the town in times of peace and investigates murders.
Alignment: Town
Abilities: Check dead player or a random on role list.
Details:
Can only perform one action
Checking a dead player returns the role, last will, and all the targets visited by player (both targets if more than one is visited)
Checking a random on role list returns the role it was randomed as
Does not appear to visit anyone to detective/agent
Host Options:
Can check town randoms (Default Y)
Can check mafia randoms (Default N)
Can check neutral randoms (Default N)
Pros: Buffed version of the coroner with a second ability that is useful in almost any game
Cons: Probably difficult to code

Role name: Informant
Alignment: Town
Abilities: Disrupts mafia chat and acts like a mafia
Details:
1) Mafia are alerted that there is an informant
2) Can participate in mafia chat and pretend to target a player during the night
3) During night chat mafia and informant are anonomyous (Names replaced by Mafia # where the # changes every night) and actions generalized (Mafia # targets <player>)
Notes:
Does not visit anyone or even appear to visit anyone to lookout/detective/agent
Does not affect the targeting of mafia members (ex: gf still cannot kill mafia)
Metagame:
Like the current spy the informant cannot see pms but he can see all mafia targets (although unlike spy he cannot tell which target is the kill target). In addition the informant can hear the mafia chat and attempt to misdirect them during the night. The mafia are however informed that there is an informant so they can avoid giving out information unless they decide it is necessary. In addition enabling pms in the presence of an informant would allow the mafia to plan for the night during the day, making enabling pms beneficial to both town and mafia.

[Deantwo]

your not really talking about replacements... more like changes...

removing a role from the game isn't really easy... as whatever role we replace it with will be in the same "spot" as the former role... so anyone with a "Coroner win" will automatically get the "Cop win" instead... (at least per my understanding of this)

as for the suggestions them self...
the Cop is overpowered... at least while he's able to check Mafia and Neutral -Randoms...
the Informant just sounds super confusing... i mean won't the Mafia know that there's something wrong the moment there's 4 people talking at night when only 3 mafia are listed?

to be fair... both Coroner and Spy work fine as they are... they just aren't just used cause pub hate the roles...

PS: Spy has just lost he's ability to hear PMs anyway

[kyle1234513]

i would love a role like informant, just totally screw up the mafia at night, but maf are able to tell maf from town based on who they can and cant target. I mean if informant were unable to be targeted then its super OP being immune to the mafia. but if he isn't immune to maf hes super easy to spot and therefore irrelevant.

[maccabbe]

your not really talking about replacements... more like changes...

removing a role from the game isn't really easy... as whatever role we replace it with will be in the same "spot" as the former role... so anyone with a "Coroner win" will automatically get the "Cop win" instead... (at least per my understanding of this)

as for the suggestions them self...
the Cop is overpowered... at least while he's able to check Mafia and Neutral -Randoms...
the Informant just sounds super confusing... i mean won't the Mafia know that there's something wrong the moment there's 4 people talking at night when only 3 mafia are listed?

to be fair... both Coroner and Spy work fine as they are... they just aren't just used cause pub hate the roles...

PS: Spy has just lost he's ability to hear PMs anyway

Coroners and now spies are the two weakest roles apart from citizen so I want to give them additional functionality but since it didn't line up with the names I decided to replace the names.

I agree the cop might be overpowered if he could check all three groups which is why I made them options. However since you can only check 1 random per day it seems to be as useful as any other investigative role especially since a cop is useless if mafia claim a role that isn't a random.

The presence of an informant is meant to be obvious, mafia are even alerted that there is one before they type. The spy originally could hear night chat but was not announced and that version just made it so mafia targeted and didn't talk at night otherwise. However the informant makes mafia chat and mafia actions anonymous and adds the informant as an active participant.

For instance consider the following situations:
1) If there is a godfather, an informant, and a janitor, then the informant and godfather would target two different players and the janitor would read Mafia 1 (godfather) targeted player 1 and Mafia 2 (informant) targeted player 2 but be uncertain of which to clean based on night action.
2) If there is a consig and an informant then if the informant figures out there is a consig then he can give false data during the night to contest the actual consig's data.

If pms are available then the mafia could communicate during the day which would encourage actual communication from the mafia to keep the informant out of the loop. If pms are not available then the mafia has to weigh the cost of giving information to the informant against the benefit of communcation.

i would love a role like informant, just totally screw up the mafia at night, but maf are able to tell maf from town based on who they can and cant target. I mean if informant were unable to be targeted then its super OP being immune to the mafia. but if he isn't immune to maf hes super easy to spot and therefore irrelevant.

The mafia know who the other mafia are based on mafia card but their names are anonymous at night and they can't exactly say im player 1, the godfather killing player 2 while an informant is listening. The informant is targetable but again, the names in the mafia chat would all be anonymous so it would not be easy to figure out who it is.

[Lazers]

Informant is extremely OP

The only downside is Mafia knows he's there

[Damus_Graves]

Coroner is best role.
Sorry but its true. Coroner has many uses that are not realized by the player base today.

[Deantwo]

Coroners and now spies are the two weakest roles apart from citizen so I want to give them additional functionality but since it didn't line up with the names I decided to replace the names.

...

TL;DR (Brother told me what it mean the other day XD)

Coroner is best role.
Sorry but its true. Coroner has many uses that are not realized by the player base today.

that is very true... i like Coroner... and Spy can be good too if he sees all targets...

[maccabbe]

Coroner is best role.
Sorry but its true. Coroner has many uses that are not realized by the player base today.

The fact coroner was removed from town investigative, the option to exclude coroner from town random (an option only shared by citizen), and his pairing with janitor really proves that the coroner is weaker than sheriff, invest, lookout, or detective.

Also I'm reading the wiki which says that the spy can hear mafia chat, is this still true?