Point deduction for leaving game

[DrNooblet]

The below thread seem to suggest that points are deducted for leaving games too early.

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...sheriff-leaves

Is this true? When do you lose points for leaving games?

[creedkingsx]

I was told that's how it was, but someone tested and found me to be wrong, so I don't even know anymore.

[louiswill]

Good thing I do not have any confirmed sheriff in my setup, neither investigator!! Abandon ship! nah...

Would lagged out being affected as well if point deduction is true?

[Raptorblaze]

According to rev, points are deducted if you leave prior to a legitimate death. If you -suicide, you have to stay until the end to not lose points.

[DrNooblet]

Do you lose points if you leave before role selection?

[TheComedian]

I agree ragequitters are frustrating, but it is and always will be unavoidable.

People can leave Arcade games as they please. It's their play time, and they are here to have fun.
If they don't have fun or want to leave and do something else with their time, then it's their choice.

The ONLY way you can properly try to make players stay in games, is to motivate them to stay, in a positive way (NOT destructive like some of the suggestions I've seen). That can just make more people stop playing all together.

The reasons people leave are:

A) They got a role that was so boring to play, they'd rather leave and join a new game.

You can attempt to deal with this in two ways. 1) You simply consider making some boring roles more fun or rewarding to play 2) You allow players to unlock "slots" for blacklist/preferlist at a much earlier stage (10K points take a long time to get!). Maybe unlock 1 slot each 2K point?

As an example to 1) Citizen is a boring role, but the point that they got a single vest and can win a tie with mafia, makes it more interesting. I don't say all roles can be made equally fun to play. But I do think the game still got some "heritage/baggage" from forum mafia that it needs to drop, to evolve.

B) The setup ended up being extremely unfair/unbalanced towards your chance to win.

C) Some players left during the setup phase, and so happened to be your teammates, and your chance to win.

Both B) & C) above is a returning issue with the setup system.
The -repick system isn't designed for pubs where newbies don't know how to -repick, and some players are AFK, blocking the repick from a few experienced players.
Giving host to a random player (random first player that joined the lobby), who maybe never played before, is just...bad!
If someone is new to the game, still learning, why make them host?
In my opinion, the game should try to pick someone with experience from the start (maybe it does that, but not well enough), as well as making it easier to repick or choose who to repick (buttons for newbies? Click button next to player Violet or Dark Green to give him host).
A better setup system would mean less dropouts, and less chance someone's team is fucked from the get go, and so they leave too.
Join a few pubs without intervening and notice how much some people can clusterfuck with the UI of the current setup phase + -repick'ing host to someone who is AFK. People don't have patience for that in games.


D) They know they lost, and would rather join a new game instead of sitting and watching others play in a boring graveyard.

I don't see a problem with this, but if this should be dealt with, I would suggest making the graveyard game/activities more fun, maybe something that relates to the ongoing game (without affecting it). Maybe have a game where people can guess the roles of the next to die, or guess who is who. Otherwise you can't demand that people sit and stare at others playing.

E) They leave because of RL issues. They simply have to leave.


.................................................. .................................................. .......................


Penetalizing playerThis is a perfect example of horrible game design.

In my opinion, motivating players to stay is best done by the reward (not penalty) they receive for staying.

Make it more rewarding to stay! And make it more fun to stay. That's my 50cent.

(setup phase, the points system and last but not least, the unlock system is what needs to be improved. Maybe Graveyard activity as well.)

---

Do you lose points if you leave before role selection?

I hope not. I would like to leave the game with 14 citizens and 1 SK, that Matt or Necroplast somehow successfully managed to start.

[cxx]

I was told that's how it was, but someone tested and found me to be wrong, so I don't even know anymore.

I guess that was me, Sir. I can remember posting on such a topic recently.
In the thread OP posted, you stated:

Two problems with this.
1: We can't actually edit someone's bank file who is not in the game, to my current knowledge, ergo; we can't actually deduct points for role-quitting as a specific role.
2: The centric point of the game is to have fun. Leaving a severe punishment in place to force someone to do something they don't want to do is just morally wrong, in my opinion.

Closing this.

So regarding your first note, you can actually implement this similar to the point mechanics of roulette. It would work smoothly and be rather easy to implement.

[creedkingsx]

I don't understand what you mean by the roulette mechanics? That all happens while you are in the game.

[cxx]

Exactly. If you participate in a game of roulette and it starts, the points you bet are removed from your account (and thus removed from your bank file). If the game of roulette ends, you will eventually regain your points, depending on the conclusion.

Analogously, you can remove some points as a collateral between naming and role distribution, if certain conditions are fulfilled (for example: if (Games Started) > 2x(Games Played) and (Games Played) > 20), and repay the collateral on lynch, night death, suicide or game conclusion (if still alive).

[maccabbe]

Simple solution: reward players who completed a game with one (additional) blackmail slot that can only be used next game. When next game starts tell the player whether or not this slot is available.

[cxx]

How is that a simple solution?

[maccabbe]

simple because blackmail and save already exists.

solution because it rewards players for staying on a game to game basis while simultaneously removing complaints about getting the same role every game.

[cxx]

You would need to save it in the bank file, therefore sacrificing one entry (which should be possible, I guess, but somehow chaotic).

You would need to modify the bank file at the beginning at the game once the blacklist is used and the game is started. You would need the same effort to implement this as to implement an actual solution to the problem.

This is only relevant to players above 10k points (and below 20k), which (at least on EU) are the clear minority of players.

Finally, it does absolutely nothing to prevent players from rolequitting.

[TheComedian]

My solution:

· As soon as someone is given a role (after name change), the system also gives them a loss (under the hood).

· Only if you stay to the end and win, will the system remove that loss and instead give a win.

· Make more achievements!! The point that there are achievements left to earn for even the most boring roles, should motivate players to stay and try. See:
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...w-achievements!

· Work on the setup UI for pubs. The last major update did help, but it can still be improved. Players leaving due to horrible hosts, newbie hosts and troll hosts are common, and when they leave they might ruin a team in the process, causing more leavers when the game starts.

· Allow player to earn "slots" for their prefer/blacklist, much earlier and gradually (and please have the game save the players prefer/blacklist so we don't have to type it each and every time).

· Reconsider if some of the ultra boring roles could be spiced up a bit. The same way that Citizen got improved by having a single vest and an ability to win a tie with mafia. Who says that a role has to be like it was in forum mafia? Why not make it more fun.

· Generally just make more stuff to unlock (and more fun to unlock):

··· 'Hanging' is default execution. Let player's unlock a new execution every X point increment. I want to unlock getting hit by a train, fed to the grinder, sit on a barrel of explosives, eaten by a monster, etc etc... The current deaths could be spread out as unlocks, and some will thereby become more rare and fun/surprising to watch.

··· I earned 9K points and can now -fart once in a game, or maybe unlock evil -laugh later. Something that is fun without really affecting the gameplay.

·*Lastly, remove the roulette game please and replace it with something else. Roulette just begs to be exploited somehow, and makes the points you get by normal play seem pointless when you reach higher points. Make a game where you guess who dies next, and let players in the graveyard have fun with that, as it is relevant to the ongoing game without affecting it.


It's not the perfect examples, but you get the point! make the game more fun to earn points in. It will reduce leavers in a positive way.

But I guess every improvement requires work, and in the end depends on how willing the developers are to do that. Otherwise nothing really matters.

[creedkingsx]

Our Solution: Reward points to the people who stay.
owait, wedothat.

[kyle1234513]

Our Solution: Reward points to the people who stay.
owait, wedothat.

and by people who stay, you mean alt tab and do something else for the next 15minutes, or walk away from the computer and come back later to play another round.

its not like theres much to do in the graveyard besides RR for all of 2minutes, or argue with people over what they think will happen.

[Brigade]

Our Solution: Reward points to the people who stay.
owait, wedothat.

Maybe increase the points for people that stay?

As it is, I'd rather play ranked, but no one does. So maybe double the point rewards (10 for dying/failing objective, 30 for completing/winning/surviving)?

Note the arbitrary numbers, I don't know the exact amounts. But increasing the "sticking around" benefit might yield some results.

[creedkingsx]

pretty sure you get more points if you stick around from an earlier time in the game.

[kyle1234513]

pretty sure you get more points if you stick around from an earlier time in the game.

its 2 points if you die night 1, and your team ends up winning. hardly a noticeable gain.

and if your team loses I don't think there is any increase at all, maybe a single point.

most I ever get is if im a citizen and town wins, I end up with 17 points

[creedkingsx]

I'm going to go back to something I stated in R&D a long time ago.
The tl;dr version of it is:
Points mean nothing.

[maccabbe]

You would need to save it in the bank file, therefore sacrificing one entry (which should be possible, I guess, but somehow chaotic).

You would need to modify the bank file at the beginning at the game once the blacklist is used and the game is started. You would need the same effort to implement this as to implement an actual solution to the problem.

This is only relevant to players above 10k points (and below 20k), which (at least on EU) are the clear minority of players.

Finally, it does absolutely nothing to prevent players from rolequitting.

Saving and editing one bit of a file is not difficult or costly, same difficulty and cost as adding an achievement.

This would be most relevant to players with less than 10k points since it would give them 1 blacklist slot where they previously had 0. As stated previously this would rewards players for staying on a game to game basis while simultaneously removing complaints about getting the same role every game. If you haven't noticed players with 10k points are less likely to role quit because they have the option to not be roles they dislike.

This would be better than points which require alot more game than most people will play to have any actual effect on the game while all this would require is that the player completes the previous game.