Is this game dead? Or is the developers dead?

[Brodersen]

***WRITTEN BY SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T HAVE ENGLISH AS NATIVE LANGUAGE***

EDIT: I'm stunned by the low quality of responses...

Orignal thread:

Game is filled with cheaters, with little indication to players how to handle them, and little/no warning to players who cheat, that their actions have consequences.

Game is often retardedly slow to start in pubs, due to AFK or bad hosts. Occasionally makes people leave the game before it even starts, and increases the chance that new players will get a horrible first impression and possibly never try actually playing.

Games are ruined due to occasional horrible bad setups. Majority of pub players just want to play a balanced/fair setup with possibilities for different roles. They clicked Mafia because they want to play Mafia, not because they want to wait wait wait and watch some newbie screwing around with setup/rules...

Game is overall slow to start regardless. Most players just want to get started asap FAST. Biggest issue with the mod!

UI is horrible. No buttons for many of the commands in the game, making learning curve unnecessarily steep.

Graphic is horrible. Instead it could be happening in a small mountain village, mafia city or some other cool place, but instead it looks like a random dumpster with poorly placed models.

Each player could have their own house and everyone walk into their house when night starts, and walks out when day starts (those still alive). Lynches could be improved a lot and speed up!
Graphics for cult/mafia/mason meeting and being in the same room at night when they talk, could also be a possibility. Considering the popularity of this map, it's graphics does deserve some attention.

Achievements promote rage-quitting! Currently the game promotes winning with each role, which makes many people consider leaving games as soon as they see they didn't get a role they haven't tried. Winning many times with the same role should still be rewarding, not only winning once with each! More lifetime achievements to complement playing common roles.

The graveyard game Russion Roulette is absolutely horrible, and does a horrible job at keeping players in the game. This can be greatly improved and even have relevance to the still ongoing mafia game.
Instead of Roulette, I suggest each player can try to guess the roles of the players still alive and earn a few points that way (or lose points if wrong). That would also make players who die early, have a reason to stick around and follow the game. Players could also try to guess who their killer was. Something here worth exploring.


Nothing seems to be done to improve the game, all effords is used on tournaments for a very small minority of players. The majority of players receive no love.

Reporting players is cumbersome, and "perfect" reports with replays seem to vanish and nothing is done. One time cheat = permanent lifetime ban to this game.

Players can just quit a game and avoid a loss to achieve perfect score ratio if they so want to.
The win/loss ratio should be taken seriously.
I suggest that when a game starts (just before you see your role) everyone gets a +1 to "games played" right away, and only when the game ends and if you won, then the system will also give you a win. Win/loss ration should also be displayed in the Help menu.

More roles should punish reckless/clueless/stupid play or have options to do so. Not because I have hate for players making mistakes, but because I think players actions should have more consequences on themselves, not just the team.
For an example an Option to make vigilante or jailor loose their remaining shots/kills, if they kill a town player (would need testing, but it was just an example).

The 'Ranked Mode' is a failure! Very few players even know it exists, and starting even one Ranked game per day on EU server, is very rare. And what is the point really? Fix/Improve the normal game instead, when there is SO MUCH that needs improvements, and that is everyone is playing (except you reading this)!


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Don't get me wrong, the basic gameplay of Mafia is good, as has always been so! But the experience in public games is horrible, especially considering all the time that is wasted on not actually playing. Not everyone enjoys sitting and waiting for one random newbie to fiddle around with role options, or several newbies learning how to -repick because the host is AFK...

And as any experienced Developer knows: You can NEVER blame the players! The full combined experience is always the developers responsibility...Developers should adapt to player behavior, that's what it is to be a game developer. If 99.9% of everyone trying your game can't get past your puzzle room, then it's not them that are stupid, it's you who failed the experience.


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REPONSES:::REPONSES:::REPONSES:::REPONSES:::REPONS ES:::REPONSES:::REPONSES:::

This right here invalidates everything.
Games shouldn't have to be dumbed down for players.

Please give me one example of how it improves gameplay that newbie players who never played the game before (or is still learning), is in charge of when the game starts and how the game rules and setup should be handled, and the other 14 players is waiting.

Everyone have been a newbie once, everyone have to learn at some point.

It is a horrible developer failure to ignore or pretend this doesn't happen, and even more so if not intelligent enough to know how to deal with it.

They are Pubs. What to you expect xD? The Devs are not responsible for player stupidity IMO.

THAT!

THAT is exactly the absolutely worst thing anyone can say as a game developer!

Pubs are the very large majority of players, playing this map and driving it's rating and popularity.

Some of the things I listen I'm my hastily written critique, is probably some of the reasons this map is only getting 4 stars instead of 5.


Because the original gameplay created by Dimitry Davidoff in 1986 is 5 stars.

[Bruno]

1. How do AFK hosts have anything to do with a downloadable map?

2. How do bad hosts have anything to do with a downloadable map?

3. Part of the map. Patience is required. Anyone above 13 should have it.

4. Lol, do you want a Fisher Price Speak & Spell, or what? ( NO BUTTONS )

5. Lol, again. Graphics? Talk to Blizzard. It could be happening on your mother's vagina, still wouldn't care.

6. Name how many times you've seen people leave for achievements.

7. If someone dies, not anybody's job to convince them to stay but them. If they want points, they'll stay.

8. 0.0001% or less? Wow, that's a great statistic, brah.

9. Reporting players is meant to be cumbersome to prevent idiots. It's not even hard. Upload replay, describe what happened, done.

10. Who cares if they leave? They don't get points.

11. It's the players that make the game, not the roles.

12. So play normal?

OVERALL: JUST SOME BASIC CRYING

MOVE ALONG, NOTHING TO SEE

[Ubernox]

Nicely handled Sheriff.

[Ash]

The graveyard game Russion Roulette is absolutely horrible, and does a horrible job at keeping players in the game. I suggest each player could instead play a minigame where they can try to guess the roles of the players still alive and earn a few points that way (or lose points if wrong). That would also make players who die early, have a reason to stick around and follow the game

also this has been discussed before, this promotes skyping.

im 2 lazy to read the rest.

There's barely any mods on EU, though.

[AppleyNO]

Game is filled with cheaters, with little indication to them how they handle cheating.

Then make a report. There is currently a backlog of reports however, so you need to be patience.

Game is often retardedly slow to start in pubs, due to AFK or bad hosts. Occasionally makes people leave the game before it even starts, and increases the chance that new players will get a horrible first impression and possibly never try actually playing.

They are Pubs. What to you expect xD? The Devs are not responsible for player stupidity IMO.

Games are ruined due to occasional horrible bad setups. Majority of pub players just want to play a balanced/fair setup with possibilities for different roles.

See above, except add that people are sometimes assholes as well. They can't eliminate the freedom of creating your set-up without everyone getting mad. Use -Repick

Game is overall slow to start regardless. Most players just want to get started asap FAST. Biggest issue with the mod!

Internet speeds and the Mafia Code.
All the stuff you see doesn't take as much time to load as the code does(at least that was my impression). Code = Roles, and how they react to each other.

UI is horrible. No buttons for many of the commands in the game, making learning curve unnecessarily steep.

The learning curve is steep anyway, with learning the roles of everything and what they do. They can click HELP and get the commands. We have talked about Buttons earlier and the response was a no, for various reasons.

Graphic is horrible. Instead it could be happening in a small mountain village or some other cool place, but instead it looks like a random dumpster. Each player could have their own house and everyone walks into their house when night starts, and walks out when day starts (those still alive). Lynches could be improved as well!
Graphics for cult/mafia/mason meeting and being in the same room at night when they talk. etc etc...

We have talked about owning houses, adding executions, and the like. Houses were shot down by the community here, and the new exes... well I haven't heard anything about that xD

Also, https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...t=Yellow+Boxes

Achievements promote rage-quitting! Currently the game promotes winning with each role, which makes many people leave games as soon as they see they didn't get a role they haven't tried. Winning many times with the same role should still be rewarding!

Achieves are cool. I don't see how achieves promote rage(role-quitting). If someone leaves because they don't like their role, the game will have a high chance of giving them that role again, so there is no point to role-quitting.

The graveyard game Russian Roulette is absolutely horrible, and does a horrible job at keeping players in the game. I suggest each player could instead play a minigame where they can try to guess the roles of the players still alive and earn a few points that way (or lose points if wrong). That would also make players who die early, have a reason to stick around and follow the game.

I like Russian Roulette </3
Guess the roles, also discussed, and shot down. It would promote more cheating.

Nothing seems to be done to improve the game, all effords is used on tournaments only 0.001% of all players experience (if not less).

This is wrong. We have had 2 Tournaments in the life of the game. The Dev is taking some time for college, and thats why no new roles(minus MM T.T)

Reporting players is cumbersome, and "perfect" reports with replays seem to vanish and nothing is done. One time cheat = permanent lifetime ban to this game.

I'm not a Mod, so I will not address this much, however, I know they are working, and it is almost NEVER one time cheat = Ban, or even KV

Players can just quit a game and avoid a loss to achieve perfect score ratio. I suggest that when a game starts (just before you see your role) everyone gets a +1 to "games played" right away, and only when the game ends and if you won, then the system will also give you a win.

Why aren't we doing this? I thought we had a system in place, but I guess not :P

More roles should punish reckless/clueless/stupid play or have options to do so.

Like?

The 'Ranked Mode' is a failure! Very few players even know it exists, and starting even one Ranked game per day on EU server, is very rare/hard. And what is the point really? Fix/Improve the normal game instead, when there is SO MUCH that needs improvements!

It was in response to members on the forum complaining about pubs, so they added that after Mafia League(see Archives). Some of us have been saying that we dislike the Ranked mode, but I leave such thoughts to others.

Don't get me wrong, the basic gameplay of Mafia is good, as has always been so! But the experience in public games is horrible, especially considering all the time that is wasted on not playing. Not everyone enjoys sitting and waiting for one random newbie to fiddle around with role options...

We cannot fix the IQ level of anyone, but we can tell you about -Repick.
Mafia has never been an action game.

And as any experienced Developer knows: You can NEVER blame the players! The full combined experience is always the developers responsibility...

Im not a Dev, so take my words with a pinch of salt, but you also can't fix player's intelligence level.

[Brodersen]

If you had some common sense, then you could have answered most of your own questions.

1. How do AFK hosts have anything to do with a downloadable map?

Because every start of a public game, the startup experience is controlled by one person, who if AFK, can sometimes really slow down or halt the game start progress.

If you actually played Mafia in public, this would be obvious to you and you wouldn't ask.

2. How do bad hosts have anything to do with a downloadable map?

The way the map currently handles public games is horrible.
If you actually tried to play Mafia in pubs yourself, you would know from experience that sometimes games take a long time to get started, and in some cases don't even start at all because people are quitting due to fail host or slow startup.

If someone wants to sit and read setup options, tweak settings or create a new setup from scratch, then they can do so alone in a private match.
The other 14 players who are all eager to play should not have to sit an watch one person screwing around and in some cases mess up the game with horrible wierdo setups that nobody likes.

I suggest that after the game loads, you start a game almost immediately with a well balanced setup that almost everyone enjoys and allows for all role possibilities. This default pub setup can be most popular balanced setup from the community, and can be modified/tweaked every time the game is updated.

3. Part of the map. Patience is required. Anyone above 13 should have it.

"Patience is require", what a horrible argument to cover up the weaknesses of the Setup process in pubs.

If someone wants to sit and read setup options, tweak settings or create a new setup, then they can do so alone in a private match.

4. Lol, do you want a Fisher Price Speak & Spell, or what? ( NO BUTTONS )

5. Lol, again. Graphics? Talk to Blizzard. It could be happening on your mother's vagina, still wouldn't care.

Graphics can indeed be improved and be more awesome! The town could look more like a mafia town!

6. Name how many times you've seen people leave for achievements.

It's hard to ask them after they leave, why they left. Don't you think?

But I know people talk about them needing some achievement with some particular role, and rage-quitting instantly when they dont get their preferred role. Obviously the game indirectly promotes players getting particular roles, and doesn't penalize leaving games instantly when you don't get the roles you are missing.

So there is obvious incentive to leave early due to achievement, and there are early leavers in almost every pub game I play.

7. If someone dies, not anybody's job to convince them to stay but them. If they want points, they'll stay.

If a player already won as most roles, and is tired of playing the same roles and instead wants to remake and try to get another role, then nothing in the game is motivating them not to just leave the game.

Quitting a game and joining a new to get another role (if you didn't like the role you got) is easy and doesn't penalize since points are only modified after the game is over.

8. 0.0001% or less? Wow, that's a great statistic, brah.

If you can't handle stats, then words like "The Large Majority", might be easier for you to grasp.

9. Reporting players is meant to be cumbersome to prevent idiots. It's not even hard. Upload replay, describe what happened, done.

Yes but the game does not motivate players to report cheaters (or in reverse, it don't try to demotivate players from cheating, by saying something can happen to them).

10. Who cares if they leave? They don't get points.

Their teammates? You don't really think before you type.

11. It's the players that make the game, not the roles.

Bad argument, the game should be prepared for player behavior.

12. So play normal?

My argument is that the developers used a lot of time creating a choice, but in reality there is no choice, because Ranked games don't happen on EU. An implemented feature that is not used, is either a poorly implemented feature OR an unwanted feature.

Take your pick.

OVERALL: JUST SOME BASIC CRYING

I actually think you are crying more during your answers.

If you can't handle critique in a constructive manner, don't visit threads like this.

MOVE ALONG, NOTHING TO SEE

Yes please do so

[Reemus]

You know, that retard Broderson joins games and shouts I WILL WIN AGAIN, ALLMIGHTY ME and etc. He cant complain about someone being cheater retard or anything because he is in criteria of them.

[Damus_Graves]

I'm going to end this before an argument starts.

You're demanding a shitload of more devotion than DR might have time to actually give.
You're demanding a complete overhaul of the mod which is completely unnecessary.
You're suggesting alternatives that promote even more cheating.
You're failing to realize that there is a help menu and that the UI is incredibly simplistic in nature. It only takes three games to catch onto.
You're failing to realize that no one here wants to help you out/discuss things with you when you come off as an arrogant critic who has a biased look on what the game should be like.

[Brodersen]

I'm going to end this before an argument starts.

You're demanding a shitload of more devotion than DR might have time to actually give.
You're demanding a complete overhaul of the mod which is completely unnecessary.
You're suggesting alternatives that promote even more cheating.
You're failing to realize that there is a help menu and that the UI is incredibly simplistic in nature. It only takes three games to catch onto.
You're failing to realize that no one here wants to help you out/discuss things with you when you come off as an arrogant critic who has a biased look on what the game should be like.

No im not.

As I said, the core gameplay is brilliant.

The implementations surrounding the original gameplay is not at all perfect like many here try to defend it as being.

Read what I wrote please.
(I know it was hastily written)

[RLVG]

My initial blame is on Blizzard.

Spoiler : Complaint about Blizz :

1. Maps are downloaded in a share with other players, not perma-downloaded to a folder.
What the fuck?




2A. Blizzard also failed with stability, players getting disconnected for no reason.
2B. Blizzard has not added a vote-kick system when inviting players.
2C. Blizzard has enabled a ridiculously long time to accept an invite.

2 = Fixed by making it stable, making the invite timer run out faster (OR vote-kick).

Now, directly ontopic with a response :


1.
Game IS filled with cheaters, skype users and Bank-Hackers.
This is solved by reporting the players appropriately with required replay evidence.

2. 3.
Game is slow to start, but I agree with this perpective :
--- Why allow AFK players to remain host untill -repick?
--- Most players won't -repick because they used too long loading, AFK'ing.
------ This would lead to, having troll setups launched successfull without quitters.

4.
How fast would you play on Chess?
--- It's not an action game. It's a puzzle conspiracy "text"-based game.

5. 6. 7.
And? The UI is AWESOME as it currently is, without causing ingame errors.
The map loads slower for the more things are in it, and scripts.
There's thousands of scripts - and ingame it has to calculate everything correctly.
--- To maintain loading, alot of stuff are limited and cut-off.

8.
Achievements promote rage-quitting to achivement hunters who doesn't want points.
It has no relation to role-quitting, playing smart may get you more points.
--- More points would be : Prefer system and even blacklist.

9.
IMO, the Roulette is RNG and "Loose Once = Perma" is lame.
The real thing keeping players in, are the points at the end or remaining faction.
--- Removing roulette would probably reduce the amount of scripts.

10.
Majority of players receive no love? What about the updates?
--- They ban hackers, fix glitches, add new roles eventually, for FREE.

11.
Personally, I'm confused about how to report players.
I still don't know where to post. Would be appropriate with a "Post Report" forum.
--- In defense, you can past on the report forum (not the 4 sub ones).

12.
From my knowledge, quitting a (started)game reduces points & adds up your played game.

13.
Intelligence and behavior, depending on the other anonymous human behind a monitor.
--- The consequences are sacrifices, or making their own faction loose.

14.
Ranked is for In-House, and most pubs do not.
Beside, they hate prefixed setups and PM - mostly.

15 ignored.

16.
As an experienced developer knows: You can blame the players on a perfect made game.
--- Take chess for an example. Blame the developer because you lost.

[Brodersen]

Nobody is complaining about losing games here.

I don't know if people are still donating money, or if there are still developers here who are interested in improving this mod, but whatever is the case, it would be extremely ignorant to think this map cannot be improved upon, and the pub experience cannot reach 5 stars!

The core consept of the game is near perfect, as has always been, but the way it is presented, and some of the things that often makes for a bad experience...there are till some work that can be done here.

I'm just curious to hear where Mafia is heading for the future, or if its stuck in a time freeze due to nostalgic fanboys who are only here to religiously defend any and all decision already implemented...


There is a saying: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
With that mentality we would still be in the stone age hunting animals with our 'fully functional' spears...

[Ash]

Nobody is complaining about losing games here.

I don't know if people are still donating money, or if there are still developers here who are interested in improving this mod, but whatever is the case, it would be extremely ignorant to think this map cannot be improved upon, and the pub experience cannot reach 5 stars!

The core consept of the game is near perfect, as has always been, but the way it is presented, and some of the things that often makes for a bad experience...there are till some work that can be done here.

I'm just curious to hear where Mafia is heading for the future, or if its stuck in a time freeze due to nostalgic fanboys who are only here to religiously defend the any decision already implemented...

There is a saying: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
With that mentality we would still be in the stone age hunting animals with spears ("they ain't broke!").

Script limit hasn't been raised for a year, due to Blizzard raising it in the last patch, DR is working on new roles and open on listening to any suggestions. DR is the only developer, you should cut him some slack.

As for the dumb people that want to play a game asap, that's their own problem. DR has provided you and any other player with a solution which can be used if they cooperate.
That's their problem if they want to troll or grief other people's game.

I've been griefed in Minecraft and I don't complain to Mojang, I complain to the griefers.

[AppleyNO]

I created a long post, breaking down everything, and the only thing you say is that "People are stupid, so you have to dumb down the game so they can play"

Again, it is not DR's fault that players have bad set-ups, or the load time is long.
Please try to realize that myself, and the other members of the forum, are semi-intelligent, and want to play a game where you don't hit three buttons and poof, you win. If someone does not have the attention span or the mental ability to play a SIMPLE game like SC2 Mafia, QQ more.
Thats where I am with this.

[creedkingsx]

This thread is retarded and hurts my head.
No. If you want to encourage stupidity to breed, go to Kentucky, you will fit right in.