Role Ideas: Interrogator, buff for Masons, and Hustler.

[gaspiden]

Interrogator: A stringent intimidating operative who interrogates suspects with the goal of attaining valuable information.

Alignment: Town/Advanced.

Special Abilities: Similar to the traditional jailor, an interrogator can target and "interrogate" one suspect per night, and can likewise talk to said person at night. The key difference is that an interrogator can interrogate every single night (so long as he is alive) and is not limited by whether a lynch takes place during the day. HOWEVER, an interrogator cannot execute but HE does however have the option of keeping his target (his detainee) invulnerable that night. Also an interrogator can pretend to come across as a jailor in order to secrete the truth out of his victims.

Goal: To lynch every criminal and evil doer.

Options:

- Limited to 3 nights of invulnerability for his detainees
- Limited to 2 nights of invulnerability for his detainees
- Limited to 1 night of invulnerability for his detainees
- Able to Role block detainee
- 1 Role block
- 2 Role blocks
- 3 Role blocks
(Interrogator can either roleblock or give night immunity. Not both)


Hustler: A likable yet shady and manipulative buisnessman willing to negotiate on both sides of the fence (town or mafia), so long as he gets his end of the bargain.

Alignment: Neutral/Advanced

Special Abilities: A very ambitious and unique role, but one that I think will truly make the game all the more interesting. A Hustler's objective is simple: Weasel your way enough by striking deals with mafia/town so you can guarantee yourself protection to the end (i.e survive to the end). A hustler can choose 1 target at night; the hustler OFFERS a deal to said target that he/she may choose to ACCEPT/DENY: A prompt will display on the side of the screen saying: "A hustler has approached you at night! He offers a deal: Choose a target that you want be killed/roleblocked (depending on game option chosen). In exchange, the hustler becomes invulernable at night". Up top will be 2 icons (1 saying accept, other saying deny) and of course the target icons beside the names. This person must decide before the timer runs out (if they don't choose an option, by default the deal is DENIED). Basically, it's a win win situation that offers the mafia/town a kill/roleblock and the hustler gets immunity during night. The options are truly endless if you think about them. And some might argue well "no one will strike a deal with hustler, or hustler won't ever strike deals" (read my reply to find out WHY they wouldn't take deals). Remember its in the best interest of BOTH to take the deal, plus the hustler doesn't KNOW who he targeted, only the client who chose the hit knows. The killing description is by default, same as mafia's (works better in clue version). But there's a catch: If a client(s) makes a deal with hustler but targets hustler by chance, the client suicides the following night (hustler doesn't die). Remember: Roles that overrule night immunity still apply (i.e vet and bgs can still kill hustler if he is sent to go kill them).

Goal: To survive to the end to see someone win.

Options:

- Hustler can make a deal to KILL
- Hustler can make a deal to ROLEBLOCK
(only one of these two may be chosen).
- If client targets Hustler, client dies following night
- A Hustler cannot strike a deal with the same target more than once.
- Hustler can reveal role to town



Thanks for reading, and please let me know what you think of my suggestions.

[Lysergic]

Spy seeing any type of Mason chat is OP. It used to be a feature, and was removed for a reason.

[Fatalis]

I don't like the interrogator, perhaps they could just add an option for jailors to be able to still jail despite lynch

[Raptorblaze]

Interrogator is just a more powerful version of the jailor..

The mason buff does not sound feasible for technical reasons, also masons already have an inherent advantage (especially if there is a mason leader and/or citizens) when cultists are in the game. Not to mention the power of masons is that they are a team on the town side who can a) clear one another and b) work together towards the town goals with absolute certainty of one another.

Hustler...sounds ridiculous. Basically its a survivor with the ability to become immune by helping either town or mafia instead of just using a vest. I really don't like it.

[MissingNo]

Hustler is like a version of my Hitman on steroids. Also the fact that at one point in his description you refer to it as a "hit" makes me think you got the inspiration from it.

[gaspiden]

@Raptorblaze

I disagree.

The interrogator is probably at the same level of power with jailor when you compare their abilities, it's definitely not "just a more powerful version of the jailor". First off, if you take a look at the jailor, it's surprising he isn't op. The jailor can roleblock, give night immunity, and jail his targets (talk to them at night). That's like 3 roles into one. So even though the interrogator is similar to the jailor, it's not necessarily a bad thing (look at invest/detect, consort/escort). Besides interrogator can't execute and can't role block (unless option is given). He can just choose whether he wants to give his target night invulnerability (this can be used to protect sheriffs, mayors) in which there is a cap and interrogate his suspects every night.

As for the hustler, again I disagree. The hustler is much different than a survivor because the sheer amount of potential he has to change the game. If anything, he's like a hired hitman (or roleblocker/doctor), something the game hasn't seen anything alike. Plus, the hustler is balanced because of the fact that he needs to do deals to gain night invulnerability, not just use "vests". It's definitely at the very least more interesting rather than just claiming survivor day 1 and remaining indifferent the rest of the game. Furthermore survivor can only help with votes, nothing more. A hustler has more versatility. The hustler as well can still be killed at night if no deal is implaced (or if his client by chance targets himself) or lynched. The client suicides ensures that the hustler has a fair chance in winning. I know my suggestions are far from perfect, however I don't think they're unfeasible.

[Blazer]

@Raptorblaze

I disagree.

The interrogator is probably at the same level of power with jailor when you compare their abilities, it's definitely not "just a more powerful version of the jailor". First off, if you take a look at the jailor, it's surprising he isn't op. The jailor can roleblock, give night immunity, and jail his targets (talk to them at night). That's like 3 roles into one. So even though the interrogator is similar to the jailor, it's not necessarily a bad thing (look at invest/detect, consort/escort). Besides interrogator can't execute and can't role block (unless option is given). He can just choose whether he wants to give his target night invulnerability (this can be used to protect sheriffs, mayors) in which there is a cap and interrogate his suspects every night.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect your input.

So point out what's different for me please. The only difference is that interrogator trades executions for ALWAYS jailing someone.

[Damus_Graves]

There's not much difference Between them.

[gaspiden]

Yes, that and the interrogator can CHOOSE to render his target night invulnerable at night, and likewise CHOOSE to roleblock the target (this last option can be turned on or off). By default, jailors can't choose, they automatically roleblock/render a person invulnerable at night. This can prove to be helpful as when interrogating suspects, you won't have to roleblock them (I.e sheriff can still search target, escort can still roleblock, etc) and can also choose to make them immune at night (Protecting mayor for example). This of course should be limited in options so it won't be OP.

I'll admit, it is very similar to jailor but I think the variations can merit its own role. It would be hard integrating this to the already existing jailor and would also make the jailor op.

And really, if you think the interrogator and jailor are the same, you can switch the interrogator to a maf role. Works either way.

[odinsama]

I love the idea of hustler, but i think he should be nerfed a bit.

Really, it's op. Most of the time or even 100% of the time, the deal will be accepted. Or I didnt understood, in option we choose if the deal is "just heal" or "just kill" or "just rb" or the hustler/victim what he wants ?(heal or rb or kill)?

I think it should be nerfed anyways :
>for example only 1 deal every 2 nights.
>Or maybe, when the night is over, there is a message: "the hustler made a deal with a townie/mafioso/neutral", could be an idea(maybe bad idea because he will know the role of his "victim"...).
>Or maybe, we limit max 1 hustler in a game.

I think it's a bit op(but we can nerf it) because for example, in a usual save(3 maf + townies + sk or arso...+ some other), if the hustler helps maf, it can give 2 kills for maf every day, maf will become so strong. (so if hustler wants an easy win, he will help maf)

Btw, the guy who receives the deal, does he know who hustler is ?


Really, I Love Hustler, it seems so funny/interesting, it's a very different role.

[gaspiden]

I'm glad you like the idea of the role . As for the question, it depends on the game settings. A hustler can only do ONE of the following: Kill/heal/roleblock. He can't do all three. So for example, if the KILL option was chosen, then during the game the hustler will only be able to make deals to KILL people. If all three options were at his disposal, then he could easily become extremely op. To add to that, No, the client or target is not notified who the hustler is. He would just be lynched too easily if that was the case. Yes I can see where you're coming from with the mafia part. However, remember that the hustler is an advanced neutral role. So if there's a hustler, a balanced save should not include any other advanced neutral role, especially evil roles that involve killing (SK). So in the end, the number of deaths are the same. Think of it this way: 3 maf and an sk. Either way, 2 town or neuts are bound to die. The hustler simply replaces the sk's killing role. And also the advantages for town and maf are identical. For example a sheriff doesnt want to reveal role but knows who mafia is, he can strike a deal with hustler to have his target killed for town. Another example, a mafia member thinks a person is vet, so they do deal with hustler to take care of him rather themselves. Another example, town right now has minority, the rest are mafia and neuts. Town can use hustler to have a maf/neut killed to even out odds. Healing: a citizen knows who sheriff is but there's no docs left. Citizens accepts deal with hustler to have sheriff healed. Mafia doesn't want to lose mafioso, so they have hustler heal him (I might take away healing, I'm seeing the flaws in this). Role block: Pretty straight forward, town can roleblock a consig or disguiser, or maf can roleblock a jailor or invest. Also when you take in to factor that hustlers can also make deals with neutrals like SKs, and witches. The possibilities truly become endless. I think I might take away heal though as an option, as mafia will be op being able to heal themselves. But remember It's not like clients get night invulnerability. The natural game mechanics should make it so everyone has a relatively equal chance. At least hustler unlike sk or arson, can benefit either side.

[maccabbe]

Interrogator:
The interrogator should not have the option of being a stronger escort by being able to roleblock every night. Have the options be 0 (if no other options are selected),1,2, or 3 role blocks and remove able to role block defense from options.

Also replace the word jail with interrogate to avoid confusion since he isn't a jailer but an interrogator.

Hustler:
Instead of arguing why people wouldn't accept his offer, can you explain why anyone would refuse his offer? Something like if they accept the hustler's deal they don't perform their own action.
Heal: All roles would take the option of healing themselves and hustler is now immortal every night, like an op surv
Roleblock: Again, all roles would take the option of role blocking someone else
Kill: If offered to a town role then they have a higher chance of killing a townie than evil but can't refuse or else hustler will switch targets next day and possibly offer extra kill to an evil role. Evil roles will accept this every time and hustler will chose that evil role again. Either way this hurts town.
Also I can't see any reason why there would be one role with three possible abilities over 3 roles with one ability each that can be excluded from randoms.

By the way serial killer isn't adv neut. The adv neut are arson, exe, witch and amnesiac.

Suggestion:
Masons can already pm each other during the day if pm is enabled.

[Damus_Graves]

+1 to hustler.
He can only do the chosen night action the whole game right? just that one?

EX: heal gets chosen, hustler can only heal that game?

[Fatalis]

So point out what's different for me please. The only difference is that interrogator trades executions for ALWAYS jailing someone.

Exactly, Although when without the power of roleblock it will basicly become a buffed up doctor

[gaspiden]

@maccabbe

Someone would refuse a hustler's offer mostly based on the fact that perhaps a town basic role (cit for example) has no idea who maf or evil roles are, and decides he doesn't want to risk it until a lead pops up. This is of course common sense. Also remember that if a target accepts a hustler's deal, and if he/she by chance targets the hustler himself (in otherwords, hustler is sent to go kill himself), he/she suicides the following night (hustler doesn't die because of night immunity). This adds some resilience to accepting the deal so quickly. Furthermore, I see your reasoning of hustler switching targets but remember, there is the game-option that makes it impossible for hustler to make a deal with the same person twice. This is to prevent the exact scenario you described from happening. Also, considering that the majority of the people are TOWN, the hustler has the highest chance of picking a town role (at least early game). So it really can be more advantageous for town. Plus Hustler has to be smart as well and is dependent on others for his survival. If hustler lets say continuously deals with evil roles, they might have him target a bg or vet. In which case hustler dies. So there is definitely a bit of metagame involved. But at the end, like an amnesiac or survivor, it's really up to hustler whether he wants town or mafia to win. It can work equally well but I would say that the safer route would be going with town so as to avoid targeting vet/bg. Furthermore, hustler has greater chance of being lynched than others (for example, vig tries killing hustler but fails cause of night immunity. Might get him lynched next day by claiming GF).

[Blazer]

Exactly, Although when without the power of roleblock it will basicly become a buffed up doctor

So it seems.

[maccabbe]

Someone would refuse a hustler's offer mostly based on the fact that perhaps a town basic role (cit for example) has no idea who maf or evil roles are, and decides he doesn't want to risk it until a lead pops up. This is of course common sense. Also remember that if a target accepts a hustler's deal, and if he/she by chance targets the hustler himself (in otherwords, hustler is sent to go kill himself), he/she suicides the following night (hustler doesn't die because of night immunity). This adds some resilience to accepting the deal so quickly.

Hustler wins with any side. If his ability is role block then the hustler would just pm his target that he is the hustler before his target makes a deal. Suddenly the death rate due to accepting the hustler's deal is 0. Since escorts roleblock someone every night it is pretty clear that everyone, even town, would accept a deal for a role block every night. Even if he doesn't know anything why wouldn't cit just chose to rb himself so hustler never buffs the mafia by offering the power? Seems like your argument does not apply to roleblock hustler but only to kill hustler.

Furthermore, I see your reasoning of hustler switching targets but remember, there is the game-option that makes it impossible for hustler to make a deal with the same person twice. This is to prevent the exact scenario you described from happening.

The option is nice, but with it disabled the hustler is either too easy to win with (role block) or if he targets a mafia, mafia suddenly have a serial killer on their payroll, which is worse than having 4 mafia.

But at the end, like an amnesiac or survivor, it's really up to hustler whether he wants town or mafia to win.

A big difference between amnesiac and survivor is that if survs or amnes chose to help town then mafia can kill them. If hustler choses to help town then mafia can't kill him which means early game he would be offering randomly offers and late game he would still be offering randomly.

Furthermore, hustler has greater chance of being lynched than others (for example, vig tries killing hustler but fails cause of night immunity. Might get him lynched next day by claiming GF).

Huster can confirm hustler by offering the list the people he has offered a deal with. You even have the option of letting him reveal to town. If anything he has a lower chance of being lynched by others. Which is odd because he has a lower chance of dying at night too.

[Damus_Graves]

It's just an all sides friendly neutral that everyone will want in dead early due to fear of helping the opposite side

[Ash]

no option that says: i dont like any of the roles.
phail

[Bunny]

Y'all should make a ballerina role jus sayen!

[Pokemon Trainer Red]

Y'all should make a ballerina role jus sayen!

What would this ballerina role do exactly?

[gaspiden]

@maccabbe


I still don't see roleblock being overpowered. For example, if town chooses to RB someone, then what's the big deal? Unless you're referring to late game where let's say there's a gf, a witch, a mayor and a doctor. If the hustler sides with doctor, they can rb gf. Or if he sides with gf, they can rb doc. And remember, if he can roleblock he can't kill. I still don't see mafia having a major inherent advantage, as it works both ways, especially late game. Also, clients can still kill hustler so long as they didn't make a deal with him that specific night. Really if they wanted to, the client could choose to DENY the deal and then target the hustler to be killed, since they do not need his services any longer. For example, mafia could do that if they're afraid that hustler would side with town. Likewise, town could do that with vig. Also, I think you believe that hustler would basically become immune since pretty much every night he will gain night immunity by making deals. Yes, but hustler can still be lynched! If town knows there's a hustler working for evil, they can get him lynched. Remember, a balanced save should include 3 maf, hustler, and maybe 1 more basic neut. The rest should be town. And yeah hustler can confirm his role, but by doing so he's actually putting himself greatly at risk it town decides he's too risky, denies deal, and has him killed or lynched, same goes with maf. Unlike survivor, hustler can dramatically influence the game, so some player might not be so inclined to keeping him alive for so long if he reveals role.

Another question that hasn't been asked: Can hustler be converted to cultist? Yes, under the scenario that he DOES NOT have night immunity.

[maccabbe]

@maccabbe
I still don't see roleblock being overpowered. For example, if town chooses to RB someone, then what's the big deal?

You missed my point, the problem isn't that roleblock is overpowered. It is that nobody would lynch a roleblock hustler or decline a roleblock, meaning a roleblock hustler would never lose.