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  1. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Horkos View Post
    You are right i came here from sc2 arcade, i have an avatar but because this thread started when i didnt i guess it is not shoping up, hopefully that wont be the case for the next threads.

    As for the lynching being better than jailing, i would propose that instead of lynching we vote for someone that i will jail and execute (if jail can rb the mafia's free kill action in addition to potentially rb an evil action during the night).

    I want to had that we should play under the assumption that the mafia roles were given randomly, i feel that we shouldnt even debate about this but don't like that helz mentionned how these roles were selected , i think this is irrelevent unless the host told us how he made the selection.
    I'm not sure I understand your point: mafia will simply send a non-jailed member to carry out the factional kill. But yes, if we do end up no-lynching, picking a relatively consensual suspect is usually a good idea.

    What are your reads so far?

    Regarding the avatar, that is not how it works, so you probably didn't confirm or something. Do note that it really is called avatar, and not profile picture (which is what appears on your profile page; those are separate things for some reason). Good luck in your struggle against the settings :P
  2. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    @Helz Regarding the same list's accuracy evaluation, I would argue PoD is playing quite safe and noncommital, which does not make me wish to townread him at all. I understand the "we don't lynch the mayor D1" concept, but I also happen not to care much; in fact, if the mayor is scum, as you have rightly pointed out before, it is a bloody catastrophe for town if they stay alive. Do you actually have behavioral reasons to read them as town, apart from... well, I'm going to be mean, but "wishful thinking"?

    I agree about SJ; your analysis feels very accurate (and yes, "feels", not much more to say there).

    While I appreciate the "we should preserve the pro-town roles" reasoning, I dislike the concept of basically giving free passes to people regardless of what they do, because it stops people from even pressuring them. I am not on board with the Phraze read, nor am I on board with the "leave them alone" approach. They clearly need to be pressured, or they will remain a question mark in the future.

    Horkos reads newbie arcade player to me. I am giving him a chance, though this chance will not last forever.

    I would gladly chop the Lawyer here, see my earlier post about them.
  3. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Read wall (and then I am all out of braincells for this game D1) I did double read doing separate reads on the player and their mech but kinda writing mech as a conclusion. Too tired to polish it.
    Spoiler : Big post :


    Totally off the table / Outside of reason:

    Tauntshaman
    0 Poster and our Sheriff. Will hurt if they do not get N1.. Totally understandable given signups started literally half a year ago
    Really rough for town if this slot gets smited or looses their N1. We will deal with that bullshit as it happens I guess.

    Aeroyi
    The BG. Honestly even if he was mafia right now I could give a fuck less. He is either a large benefit to town or a total detriment to mafia as a role. Would lynch if I had a reason but not gona burn braincells hunting on this slot. I would activly be against lynching this slot. Zero reason to waste it on them imo

    Town leans / bad lynch:
    (Keep in mind these are D1 soft as fuck)

    Marshmallow Marshall
    Walks in cautioning on applying town cred for effort. Knows me well there. Also confused by my first post which was a mess (part of why I said fuck it and posted it) and their initial reaction #25 reads well there. Follows up pressuring Phraze for content. Supports not claiming targeting and pushes against host meta RVS break. That goes on for a while and fits their view that its not a good path. They are absolutely constant in their view in both pushing against my strat and embracing RVS/Pressuring for content with votes. They did at some point actively push against what I was up to, but quite honestly I am not sure if its AI given their very healthy level of skepticism for what I do. I want to say they were in a game I I power wolfed and just marched the entire town towards hell while people sheeped me off reputation.
    At the end of the day they appear to have hard pushed for the benefit of town as they see things. I do not see any position by them that could not fall into a town mindset or anything I view as opportunistic. Feels like their town play. Mid level risk and reward role but quite honestly even as I disagree with them on a very few things everything they are doing feels in line with what their view of pushing the interests of the town team is.

    Powerofdeath
    Not aligned with Horkos. They are keeping up with the game but have not taken many hard stances. A hand full of original contributions, asks pointed questions, certainly not sheeping or blending. They are not leveraging their vote power at all and seem to be watching things unfold..
    Mechanically game breaking as scum and a mid/high level issue for scum. The bitch mode in me would rather just assume he is not scum and its broken for him to be scum but also, their play feels soft and noncommittal. They are not pushing the game forward and have a seat to be a leadership role but choose not to. I do not like that.

    SuperJack
    Pushes all over the place and argues for formal RVS style as they push other players to vote. I feel like this lines up with their mindset of progressing the game state. They push against mech talk and encourage classic formal RVS. Not much outside of that but its D1. Really low impact role that both Town and Mafia probably wont have much equity and feels slightly townie to me.

    Neutral:

    jmw
    Against dictating PR's which is a good stance although I would have been much more aggressive about it and for different reasoning. Seems to have a consistent view on mech crunching. Hard questions the direction of chat and is resistant to mech breaking RVS. Supports Mech crunching on night actions each day. Skeptical while also poking reads. Not awful
    The doc. Medium equity for scum and high equity for town to protect. They have been active and I do not see a reason to push them. I would be against their lynch

    Phraze
    Post of note would be #99 imo. I feel they really have not read the setup there. Slight town lean given they would be in some Mafia chat talking about who to kill if they were not town. Pretty much that reason alone I see them as more likely town. Also low post and reasoning getting pushed makes them feel like LHF
    Very powerful role for either Town or Mafia. Still stuck on their ignorance. Would have to argue faking a town slip of not knowing the setup is open to justify them being scum so I am not in support of their lynch.

    Gikkle
    Calls out mech stuff with a valid point. They pay attention. Follows up with some pushes. Healthy if trying to break RVS. I do like that they push in all directions. They also push against mech RVS break but it resolves in conversation. I do dislike that they do not have a focus. While they are participating in chat they are not really driving it forward or interested in participation.
    Mechanically very neutral and not of note. Would really like to see them do more to drive the conversation and take a hard stance especially given their role. Low equity in a D1 lynch imo.

    Scum:

    Horkos
    Only a few posts and literally EVERY one of them is focused on them being able to use their night action. Not aligned with POD..
    Mechanically Jailor is low equity to kill or keep alive. I would not be opposed to their lynch but I would also have a very hard "Why" given the other options

    Auwt
    Gut votes JWM uhhh. Pretty sure that’s it? The empty slot that vote parked JMW. Please do not consider his vote if you wagonomics late game >.> 50% sure Auwt did a vote park play to bus in an FM I was in years back. Vet role which gets a pass for analysis they have apparently decided to take pretty liberally. I could easily see them doing some distance vote and would argue M/M potential with JWM later but not much to talk about, the vote is also opportunistic if scum which is of note.. Scummy but also full speculation scummy and the game did have a half year sign up and little notification for start so ehh?

    The Lawyer
    Very few posts. I think their only real post not excusing their lack of posts was asking me who I would keep alive which I had basically already said. I am uncomfortable with this slot. Low Proformance and contribution while feeling the need to excuse the lack of contribution
    I feel their role is decent equity on a lynch. The constantly excusing their lack of participation is not great and it’s a role with more value for scum than for town. Until the PRs that exist in the game change
    They are also a bit of total speculation as opposed to actively scummy which ehh?

    Ewianking
    You can Iso them in like 4 posts or something. Kinda town reads myself and Gikkle and softly pokes 'The Lawyer'
    Very high equity lynch. Low posts that feel blendy appeasing vocal players without taking much of a stance on anything.
    I am between The Lawyer and Ewianking for a lynch.
    Only a few posts and literally EVERY one of them is focused on them being able to use their night action. Not aligned with POD?
    Jailor- Low equity to kill or keep alive. Also not great 100% of their posts have been night action focused. I would not be opposed to their lynch but I would also have a very hard "Why"
    That's an original list concept, mixing mechanical considerations with reads. Even when trying not to let the rational character of the post influence my views because I know Helz is able to build a quite elaborate fake town mental universe as scum, I still like the intent here; this effectively moves the game forward and seems to show a depth of analysis that is both very difficult to fake (in spite of the caveat regarding Helz's abilities) and unnecessary for scum to make.

    On a perfectly unbiased note, I also happen to like the part about myself lol. Not because my name is green in the list, but because the honest meta mentions of powerwolfing and basically correctly explaining my perspective on him and on the general gamestate is both good for communication/solving and, once again, very much unnecessary to do as scum. I'm not even sure why scum would think of doing that, barring the "I have foreseen this exact train of thought and am inducing it muahahaha" WIFOM scenario.

    Therefore, I'm willing to give this a tentative town read. Apart from this, and this is a warning to others as much as it is one to me, Helz probably should be read based on results later on, as he appears to be set to be the town leader here. Votes and pushes will likely speak louder than words regarding this slot.
  4. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by jmw View Post
    interesting vote ;)
    DIE YOU FILTHY SCUM
    /s, i laughed

    Vibing with jmw's posts so far, even though they contain nothing revolutionary. Curious about Auwt's feelings.
  5. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Probably you...if you're mafia we get rid of a power wolf... If youre town we get a decent flip

    About not lynching today, I agree on PoD... Why Aeroyi though?
    ...huh? Your reasoning needs to be explicited. This looks like a potential dumb slip lol.

    As for your agreement regarding not lynching PoD, I find it strange, because it is most certainly not based on the same reasons as Helz's take. Helz does not want to lynch specific roles, which is why he wants to spare those two; it is strange of you to want to spare one, but not necessarily the other (especially considering you have not opposed any mechanical objection to sparing the bodyguard).

    From a town perspective, your agreement with the PoD spare plan would thus have to be based on a behavioral read on him, which does not look very realistic to me (not just because I don't have a read on him, but because there really isn't anything to read him on at all, at least not enough to make such a strong statement about him). This leaves one option: you are sheeping Helz dishonestly because you feel like there is a read from a strong town player to sheep.

    This strongly reads like scum!Lawyer interacting with town!Helz to me. I do not wish to stop pressuring Phraze, but this is a vote in spirit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeoryi View Post
    imo kinda just doesn't feel real here
    -vote Superjack
    Disagreed. This is standard SJ game start, and it's just funny lol. Believe it or not, SJ once was a skilled tryhard. Now, he is mostly... that, and we love him all the same, except when we lynch him. I expect him to start giving meaningful insights at some point not too far in the future; if he does not, then he is just coasting and most likely scum.
  6. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    @Phraze @Marshmallow Marshall

    It really will be bad if you two do not reveal last d2 if you are town. Poking you now and will do so again. Only matters if your town but you revealing your actions first greatly hurts our ability to box in the mafia
    Agreed; this is especially true for bus driver because it controls the whole narrative, but yes, same for me.
  7. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by ewianking View Post
    hm, Im unsure of Helz's playstyle (Pretty sure it's my first game with them), but I do like #118 because it seems they are being methodical in their thinking and not leaving gaps, Im not sure if scum in sc2 would fake not reading OOO too
    While I understand where you're coming from and appreciate that you are trying to get reads, you are simply describing the average Helz playstyle. It is NAI and a death trap if people start clearing him and he happens to be scum. It has happened before. I also know he is very comfortable with mechanics (which is probably why he sees mech talk as preferable to voting people for posting cat pics, even though I sincerely think this is objectively wrong, as experience has proven to me lol), meaning he can
    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    Well the website is loading indefinitely when I try to answer or quote.

    I will place my vote here for now :

    -vote jmw


    Why? My gut is telling me.
    Then our guts are at odds with eachother. Hm.
  8. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Horkos View Post
    Jailor - I'm a believer that we should lynch someone EVERYDAY to render jailor useless, i dont care if theyre town jailor. Town collectively voting off someone is better than letting 1 person kill someone everyday

    1rst who told you jailor would kill everyday, it can also be used to protect someone while not lynching a potential innocent
    2nd i am now tempted to execute you asap
    Indeed, Mr. Jailor, indeed. Lynching is almost always better than not lynching due to the sheer amount of information it provides. That said, you remain a nice failsafe.

    Looking at your ISO... hm. What is your experience with mafia? I get the feeling you came here from the SC2 arcade mafia map. I would heavily encourage you to try and read people based on their behavior, especially this early into the game.
    Also, avatars are cool. You should get one ;) easier to recognize people that way
  9. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Greetings.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    If you are referring to my low activity so far, as I said I'll be more active in the following hours so this should be corrected. Also I appreciate when people ask me questions. I'm rereading the thread rn. Haven't had much time to play yesterday.
    I hate posts like "Hey, look at me, I am available!" when they do not fit with a general attitude. This just feels dishonest. See next quote...
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    As to why so little votes in general, how would I know that? People are feeling too shy to vote?
    Dismissive/sort of weirdly defensive attitude towards a simple exhortation to do something, as opposed to, you know... doing something.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Evil plot?

    Is this a scum slip? Are you evil?
    I don't think I need to explain how this is a crappy, lazy attempt at looking "solvy". It also does not look like a joke, before someone claims that's what it is. Also note that all the posts I'm quoting were made in direct succession; it is to be expected that this post would be some kind of attempt at reading people, placing votes, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    You haven't said anything about my role tho
    ...aaand?

    I do not like Lawyer here.

    ^ probably them, especially in the final stanza
  10. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Popping in quickly, only have a few minutes, but this has been in the back of my head even in my sleep xD

    Quote Originally Posted by Phraze View Post
    That would be interesting.
    I have literally been hanged, drawn and quartered for saying this word before; it had become a bit of a meme. While it was wrong and I was just town, I'd argue this case is different. You have not said anything really substantial (at least up to that point in the game, I haven't read the rest yet), and this strikes me as huge filler. I often think this exact line as town, but I don't just say it without any further comment; a townie's thought process that includes this line does not stop at it. I dislike this post.

    -vote Phraze


    Will come back when I can.
  11. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by jmw View Post
    I mean sure but is there really any merit in this conversation? Using speculation on what you think the host would do as justification for towning someone or sussing them based solely on their role?
    I think a discussion of what roles might be town based on flipped mafia play and ability usage is similar in nature but actually helpful.

    Claiming night actions is basically a requirement with few exceptions, I support it 100%.
    Exactly this. Let us drop baseless host meta and move on (and wait until we have an actual base to speculate, at least).
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I feel like games have 2 sides. Analysis and mech. I love both. But I can only play one at the start of a game.
    If you get my flip feel free to follow down the path I laid out that nobody has disagreed with as a huge advantage to town. Also consider how the setup itself conveyed that removing feedback for town players on specific roles was an intentional decision to prevent mechanical crunches.

    How scummy of me to propose such an evil plot that cripples the mafia team. Almost like the conversation we are having now has moved out of RVS and into a real FOS with reasoning : )
    That is thanks to me trying to move away from your mechanical talk, though...
    All the credits is belong to me!!

    As for scum fearing for their lives because you are mentioning mechanical elements... I sincerely doubt it. "You should claim your actions/results everyday" is pretty much common sense, and the rest of mechanical discussion is currently quite pointless, since we have no flips and no real reads.
  12. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by jmw View Post
    let me cook
    Proposal accepted. Do cook, however. I'm hungry.
  13. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I agree. I do not think everyone should go full try hard and such.
    In my tism I just question why the subject of one or the other is a dichotomy at all. Do we really need to shut down one conversation so the other can be had?

    Also, to be clear you would be on board with voicing your action each turn first post and pressuring others to do so as a strat?
    On paper, in general, yes, I am on board. Do note that investigatives + bus driver shenanigans could make the order of reveal matter, though. I see no valid reason to straight up withhold knowledge for an entire day, however.
  14. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I do still see value in analysis of alignment potentials for a few reasons-
    1- familiarizes players with game mechanics pointing out bits others would miss
    2- leads to town asking host questions that can be very important to game solving (On this note I would encourage people to share info they feel matters about their role to the town)
    3- It’s a REALLY uncomfortable subject for less experienced scum players. Can lead to slips
    4- coordinates the town on basic stuff. Like ‘not projecting actions given mafia knows exact roles’
    5- Most importantly it breaks RVS. It gives us productive content to talk about before interactions can be hit on while also creating those interactions. The most NAI conversations can lead to hard trains and get the game going

    That said- For those looking to get in and just don’t see much to talk about I would encourage thoughts on the setup, roles, and what balance they could see
    It in fact really does not break RVS. I hate mechanical talk with a passion, in fact, and would rather keep it to the strict minimum.

    Which I am going to steer the game away from right now, in fact. Your early post that acted as if roles were hidden was too obvious, especially since you added this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I needs more sleep.

    Mechanically I am expecting a 4p mafia with a sleeper mixed in. Aeroyi and powerofdeath get mech passes from me for the day.

    If you spot what I did earlier dont call it out : )
    It feels more like LAMIST than anything else, actually, now that I think about it.
    -vote Helz
  15. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Phraze View Post
    Okay so

    Nice to finally play a forum game with Helz. Many words.

    Oh yikes, everyone uses dark mode here.

    I wanted to vote but didn't know how you do it here.

    -vote SuperJack ??

    Actually wait...
    -vote Helz
    Ahh, a light mode heathen, I see! :P

    If you really want to, you can go to the bottom right corner of any page and change the theme (the default one is called "DarkCore"). VBulletin Default is a light mode (also known as pain and suffering).

    Why the vote on SJ, btw? Apart from "for the sake of it"?
  16. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Why not do both? Not like two conversations can not be held at once and we have to pick one or the other.

    Also, how do you feel about everyone claiming their previous nights action as a plan?
    In a world where everyone has unlimited time to dedicate to an unlimited day, yes. In a world where the start of D1 is very slow, no - and according to experience, people tend to forsake actual solving when the game derails into mechanical talk.

    Everyone claiming their previous actions makes sense and will probably end up boxing wolves in someday.
  17. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by jmw View Post
    good evening chat
    i did not remember this was such an open setup

    I'm not inclined to read anyone based on their role, gonna just focus on dayplay.
    Indeed. Where is this dayplay, however?
    -vote jmw
  18. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    bro i miss a lot of those people
    Especially Hypersniper. Best host.

    That said, O great mayor, what is your unbiased opinion on Helz's mechanical stuff? Do you consider it to be readable at all?
  19. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I will also mention it could be a bad idea for town members to communicate intended actions in a Networker chat. A pool of 4 even at days start means its very likely for one of them to be Mafia and with the mechanical knowledge of exactly what slot can do what action giving away target data in advance would just give the mafia even more of an edge. A Mafia BD+ any member in a network chat equates to a very bad situation if people talk about that info.
    Agreed. There's no reason to claim stuff preemptively anyway, WIFOM shenanigans aside. The safe bet is to just shut up about mechanical stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    I disagree, a Body guard mafia would be chosen if the Mafia had more OP roles. And there Ability does not need to be used.
    Tbh its the same with all roles.

    If you knew the Hosts meta, then maaaybe you can argue.

    But I do not think a role should have any weight on votes.

    No free passes , or coupons for anyone.
    Very much agreed. None shall escape scrutiny. Host meta is generally a very bad idea, and I'd argue Oliverz is particularly prone to being chaotic, if we really want to get into it. I am not barring any possibility.
  20. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Phraze View Post
    Present.
    -vote Phraze


    Mhm? And? There is at the very least something to discuss beyond your presence.
  21. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Some thoughts on roles, strat, and balance-

    Mayor Not much to say outside the description. Room to wagonimics it late game. I feel its much less likely to be Mafia given how hard that could curve the game. 4v9 with a +1 vote on the 4 on this setup could translate to a N1 win.
    Doctor Typical for site meta. More likely for a town role. Easy cover claim. Late game crunch mechanics to verify heals
    Lookout Interesting that it breaks OoO. Slightly more likely a town role
    Vet Compulsive is huge. A town player with this role should be VERY conscious of the way they are seen. Claiming is a mixed idea and its probably gona be one of the most difficult roles in the game to play. If you are town and less confident could claim early to prevent TvT. Equity for a jester level move as Mafia (although from balance I think its less likely given that it would hard leverage a player and be easy to mechanically corner)
    Survivalist Cool twist on cit. Offsets the PR heavy lineup. More likely to be town as a role but also likely to be a cover claim
    Vig Not much to say outside the description. Obvious play implications. Holstering may be the better play as town given BG and Vet exist but odds matter. 4/13 is a 30% shot. Math a tiny bit and make judgements based on game situation.
    Grave Digger Lots of potential. Interesting nerf in the vanalize functions that makes me feel its more likely in the game. Pretty much the only thing to consider for actions imo. Slight lean for it to be a Mafia role.
    Jailor Typical for site meta. Pushes advantage for no-lynch. Jailor should also consider jailing to communicate. Notable lack of protection on jailing. Equal equity in Mafia or Town and likely to be in game for one side or the other.
    Networker Chats. Would be good to do them always. Also dumping logs as a reveal to self confirm at some point can be a HUGE benefit to town confirming and a lot of roles can play off knowing that reveal. Very neutral role
    Bus Driver Typical for site meta. No feedback to the swapped people should be noted. More likely to be mafia for setup balance imo.
    BG Potential for cross killing TvT. Probably best to stick to the hard obvitown group view for town. Mafia Bodyguard is interesting but imo unlikely for balance
    Sheriff Typical for site meta. Seed well. (On this I suggest we start claiming checks each day. Breadcrums post flip reads which this site does poorly.) My N0 check was P4 Ewianking as cit (Value to doing it each day. Would not trust it end game but real value early/mid)
    ...I mean, this is probably reaction testing, because I dare assume HELZ, out of all people, has read the setup and understood its concept. There's no mafia traitor, after all. I shall thus let this slide.

    However, I will indicate that effortposting is not alignment indicative, especially for Helz. If I see anyone giving him town points for this, I shall hit them with a hammer >=|
    (unless there are valid reasons beyond "it's a wall on page 1" or "he's mech solving!" lol)
  22. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Umm... hello? We must straighten out those Rhombi, and that would probably involve... saying something.
  23. ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    I've had another child this took so long to start
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Role Card
    You are the Host!


    Names / Roles
    1. FireBringer, Framer
    2. Ika, Citizen
    3. RLVG, Godfather
    4. StealthBomber16, Citizen
    5. Bananacucho, Serial Killer
    6. Mattzed, Agent
    7. PowerofDeath, Doctor
    8. Orpz, Vigilante
    9. Hypersniper, Investigator
    10. Lolunic0rn, Escort
    11. Fatalis, Citizen
    12. Dagaen, Bus Driver
    GG
    XDDDD that's a good start

    -vote powerofdeath

    SJ is too cool to be my RVS target

    On those wise words, I am out for a while
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    ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    IT'S HAPPENING, IT'S HAPPENING!!!

    /scumfirm

    Just as a heads up, though, I may be a little busy at times + will be soft multigaming (with a 10 days/2 days phase length game lol), so my activity pattern is likely to be "popping in on 24 hours intervals with intermittent small pop-ins inbetween". Definetly up for playing, though.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Yeah I appreciated players who gave succinct posts but with thoughts, rather than stream of conscious replying to every single post. Makes games more readable.
    I somehow feel targeted by this statement... xD

    I have changed, I swear! I am a changed maaan!!
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    ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
    /sign

    Please ping me on discord when it starts
    Just to confirm, we'll make sure all players are pinged in the server when the game starts (riiiight @oliverz144 ? )

    Especially since we will need to reconfirm with people to make sure they still exist, considering how long the signups have been up for.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    I'd rather get shapes into the thread...
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    ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by FM-Sonrisa View Post
    Can I join
    You are an anonymous account...! You should get on your main

    (or if you do not have a main, make one lol)
    I'll gladly help you out if you have trouble with it!
  29. ►►Re: Antiphon's Tetralogies (I swear it's relevant to mafia)◄◄

    I doubt this is a valid distinction: one can argue that the Earth is roughly spherical as much as one can argue that it is crepe-shaped... Of course, that doesn't mean both positions are equal, but my point is that argumentation is a mode of expression, and as such is not reliant on the nature of the discussed topic. I am going to dare and throw another Greek thing here https://demonax.info/doku.php?id=text...be_most_useful
    This is clearly Plutarch arguing... for entirely vain stances that simply are an excuse to train eloquence, at this point.

    And wow, that quote... I'm sure the guy's slaves won't be mad at all and wouldn't ever dare to say anything false, especially under torture! xD
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    ►►Re: Darkcrusader's personal writing corner.◄◄

    Mr. J.? Hmm... some people just want to watch the world burn, right?

    I'm a fellow ESL plebeian, but I would say this is not bad at all ^^
    And I am always glad people undertake creative endeavors for the sake of it! That is usually interesting, and always good for fostering beauty (and even critical thinking, who knows). Good luck with this project!
  31. ►►Re: Antiphon's Tetralogies (I swear it's relevant to mafia)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Difficult to read. Too much so.
    Has he made a single argument in any of these 3 cases? It all seems full of assertions.

    Wiki says the dude wrote 15 of such tetralogies: 12 fictional for school and 3 for actual legal cases. I wonder if the 12 fictional speeches would be easier to read?
    I will grant you that it is not exactly concise xD. However, I'm not sure what the opposition between arguments and assertions is meant to be. Aren't arguments series of logically connected assertions meant to prove a point (which is exactly what the texts are)?

    As for fictional cases, I do not know. I have not delved that deep into the matter! :s
  32. ►►Antiphon's Tetralogies (I swear it's relevant to mafia)◄◄

    Through a long and tortuous path (following quotes in books...), I have stumbled across Antiphon's Tetralogies, of which this site seems to provide the most readable English version: https://www.sfu.ca/anewradermacher/x...tralogies.html

    It's basically Mafia in ancient Greece. Each "tetralogy" is basically an accusation, a defense, a response to the defense, and a final defense, all in the context of a murder trial. I thought some mafia-inclined people could find it an interesting exercise.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    The site has a 10-post minimum for all games, regardless of hosts

    hosts can expand upon that though and have discretion on whether a post counts as a post

    obviously that may not mean much given last game xD
    Might be a little off-topic, but I for one am a big fan of soft post minimums, as opposed to "post X times, no matter what and when". One can post 10 times during a day and bring groundbreaking contributions (I believe @Voss was a prime example of that), and one can post 20 times during a day and have said absolutely nothing at all about the game. Of course, lurking is a thing, and to some extent, it can be considered as a legitimate strategy, although it is one I personally despise. However, rather than a hard "post whatever 10 times per day", I'd rather have a "post 10 minimally meaningful normal length/density posts, or a reasonable equivalent in terms of content (this is the kind of thing that if you see it, you know it; a huge wall of dense content is 'worth' much more than a one-liner), about the game per day". This does make more things up to the host's discretion, but it:
    - prevents people from posting only cat pics and meeting the mandatory post count strictly from that
    - does not count high contribution, low post count as "inactive"

    In such circumstances, the "average content post count" could be raised a little, considering 10 one-liners is not much (even when they're about the game) and doesn't really make someone active, whereas 10 walls is a lot and definetly makes somebody count as active.


    This is not really a request for this game specifically, by the way. It's a general line of thought about activity enforcement.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 361: Rectangle VS. Rhombus (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)◄◄

    /sign

    I daresay we rectangles should straighten up and keep our rifles by our sides against those crooked rhombi.
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    ►►Re: I'm Spartacus Game Thread◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
    No don't, you couldn't foresee us both being online and doing it fast enough that you couldn't unvote in time to stop it

    I never would've had the guts to try sniping without Olli :hugs:
    Thanks, but it was still super dumb of me XD. My PoE was 2/3 right, but um, just not in the right order... whoopsies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
    Thank you all so much for the game
    Still that, though thanks for introducing me to this bird
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    ►►Re: I'm Spartacus Game Thread◄◄

    oh well lol

    gg. i will now go hide in a corner
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    ►►Re: I'm Spartacus Game Thread◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    ewianking
    Marshmallow Marshall
    Oliverz144
    powerofdeath
    Taffy

    Here's why I think massclaiming is a good idea.

    Scenario 1: Only 1 Spartacus claimed. This mean brendan was town. We will basically let that spartacus decide the vote for today. If correct, mafia will probably kill the last spartacus and we will go to 3p endgame. I'm okay with this because I definitely want to avoid a 4p no clear endgame.

    Scenario 2: 2 Spartacus claimed. Brendan was town. We absolutely have to find the fake slave and lynch the Legionaire. Whichever slave(s) are still alive by tomorrow are 100% clear and will be the deciding vote(s) on which Spartacus claim is fake.

    Scenario 3: 2 Spartacus claimed. Brendan was mafia. We probably will waste today voting out a slave claim. Whichever slaves are alive by tomorrow basically have 50-50 chance on deciding which spartacus is real or fake.
    This seems fair. I have no objections.
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    ►►Re: I'm Spartacus Game Thread◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    Do you know that mafia can quickhammer today and end if there are 2 mafia alive.
    I am well aware. However, I happen to believe Ewian is nearly always scum here if there are indeed 2 mafia alive. Here's why

    - Oliver is either scum with Brendan or just town. This was already explained yesterday, but the gist of it is that scum!Oliver had a perfect occasion to get rid of town!Brendan and chose not to.
    - You are towny. This is the less safe bet I'm making, but I simply do not believe you are scum; you were towny yesterday. I also fail to see with whom you coul be paired.
    - I am town (mentioning for the sake of my PoE)

    This leaves Ewian and Taffy for the 2 scum alive world. If we live in a two scum alive world and I'm actually wrong on the above, then the game is already over in my opinion, so I'm basically choosing to scratch that world and accept defeat if we live in it; this kind of heuristic has always paid off whenever I've applied it, because it makes life much more simple.
    Furthermore, in a 2-scum world, Taffy would be the one who could maybe convince me they're town, as they didn't give me any massive red flags in the USSR fashion. However, they haven't given me any significant green ones either (I did like some stuff, but in retrospect, it really didn't mean much), so they're just in there by PoE in a 2-scum world, basically.

    In a 1-scum world, it's really probably just Oliver, but in such a world, this is not MYLO yet, meaning we can afford it.
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    ►►Re: I'm Spartacus Game Thread◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
    Ewian I'm sorry but I'm going to hammer early so Marshall doesn't die as well

    -vote SuperJack
    I did not even notice I was under the 10 posts mark. I've been trying to make my posts as meaningful as possible and to avoid spamming, but I guess I've done it a little too much lol. My internet also happens to have died on me in the middle of a reply I was making to some of Ewian's posts, reply I do not even remember now, so I assume it wasn't too important...

    I don't know if I should thank you or not for this xD
    I guess there isn't that much to read into, considering it's about strict rule stuff.

    Also, regarding SJ lynch: I have no regrets and believe SJ is the one who should have some. He had committed the heinous crime of not being towny.
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    ►►Re: I'm Spartacus Game Thread◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by ewianking View Post
    It would be really funny to apply the meta that every time oli doesn't tr me hes town.
    but I won't

    actually post #261 I like of oliver compared to last game I play with them, where they are more lurky. I wouldn't completely avoid a s! oli scenario but I think that post is favorable for T!oli considering hes actually providing thoughts this game
    -vote ewianking


    This post REEKS. The first sentence is some kind of "airplane perspective" on the game, like Ewian is not really involved in his own reads in "first person mode", but is rather contemplating the game state and picking what he's going to say. A townie trying to solve will not have this perspective and this tone.
    Note: I first noticed the tone/style here because I recognized a scummy pattern (i.e. a way of behaving some scums have, not so much on this site as on foreign, larger ones), and tried to make sense out of it; this is probably the best way to explain it.
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    ►►Re: I'm Spartacus Game Thread◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by The Nightbringer View Post
    This post is maturing like fine wine.
    Your latest posts SJ has to be the lazyest reads you could have given... And terrible reason for town slotting me.
    I expect way more from you. Unless you make serious changes, I'll be joining in on you. You have until morning to convince me otherwise since that's probably when I'll be last online for the day.

    POD still hasn't gotten out of my bottom read, he literally was the only one I wasn't going to accept asking why gikkle died, POD was in both previous games with him and would have known that gikkle could have taken over the role of town leader and was a threat metawise.

    Oliver is my 3rd choice simply because of his utter lack of effort in this game but it's what I'd expect from him regardless of his alignment.... Just process of elimination has him in bottom 3.
    I have played with Gikkle before, and while he definetly is a good player, I don't think he's scary to the point he should be murdered ASAP even though he did basically nothing of note and hasn't accumulated any real townreads (as far as I could tell on D1, at least).

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    idk I dont remember gikkle ever wowing me that much
    Honestly, this seems fair to me. (No offense meant to you, Gikkle, you're great! Just not this game and it's not even really your fault, you were temporarily busy xD)
    I still kinda like PoD. As for your theory that the Gikkle kill was a fearkill on a non-towny slot, I'm not convinced.

    Also, regarding Oliver, I think it's worth noting that his alignment is very much tied to Brendan's. If Brendan was scum, Oliver gets really quite suspicious due to EoD1. If Brendan was town, Oliver is probably just town (it would have been the go-to play to lynch town!Brendan from a scum!Oliver perspective here, he literally didn't have to say anything because we already made the case for him). Because, as I said, we should play under the assumption that we are still facing 2 scum in order to avoid having bad surprises, I wouldn't want to lynch Oliver today. Assuming we don't flip the Legionnaire and we're getting to the lategame, though, Oliver would have little going for him (and quite a lot against him).
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    ►►Re: I'm Spartacus Game Thread◄◄

    Sigh. I'm too tired to think straight and thoroughly analyze SJ's posts, but I hoped I would have more to ponder overnight. One liner reads based on poor reasons (literally basic effort reading... SJ, you're not a noob lol, don't you try :P) won't cut it. My vote is staying.

    Also, just as a heads up for people who aren't used to the site: this game is particularly inactive. Like, people don't straight up AFK, but they don't participate much at all (you know who you are)...

    I shall now take my leave for the night.
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    ►►Re: I'm Spartacus Game Thread◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
    Would you expect to be 100% dead tomorrow is PoD flips town?

    I think that solving an entire day in a w!Brendan world is dangerous given how small the game is. We should explore both options to maximise our chances of success.
    I'm starting to like you as much as your pfp
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    ►►Re: I'm Spartacus Game Thread◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Taffy View Post
    PoD was the one who made the deciding vote to kill Brendan, over the option to create tied wagons by voting you. Yesterday you accused PoD of voting SuperJack to create a counterwagon to his scumbuddy Brendan, and now that he proved that theory wrong you are still pushing him.

    I mean there's no towncred to be had from bussing the fake Spartacus. If Brendan turns out to be the wolf you're pretty much all town.

    Do you have other reasons for thinking PoD is scum than that he has a different approach to the game?

    Personally he's the last person I want to vote today; he's comfortable in thread, I can't discern any agenda in his posts, we've had the same idea about how to optimally play out the mech, and he's actively contributing.
    +1. Exactly my thoughts. Also, I disagree with Nightbringer that we should consider this as a 6v1 immediatly. There are no drawbacks to being careful, but there may be drawbacks if we decide to be arrogant instead.
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    ►►Re: I'm Spartacus Game Thread◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by ewianking View Post
    Really expected Nightbringer to be the kill tbh
    though gikkle isnt outside of expectations.

    If I put on the tinfoil hat because people were against nightbringer scum didnt want to confirm them town, so they went after an inactive.
    Honestly, thinking about it right now, Nightbringer did have 3 votes on him at the end of the day... but I had the same reaction as you, this only popped into my mind right now, so you get some... mindmeld points, I guess? Congrats
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    ►►Re: I'm Spartacus Game Thread◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    But Gikkle can be punted until tomorrow, I think I will read him easier if he actually becomes active
    I think this was literally everyone's opinion of Gikkle lol. It's quite strange that he was murdered out of everyone. I had lowkey expected to come back to the thread to my death, to be honest, or perhaps to Nightbringer's. Why did scum decide to basically facilitate our task of sorting out the inactives? @ any interested soul
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    ►►Re: I'm Spartacus Game Thread◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    I can say this is bad for town because if Brendan was actually town, then mafia can cruise by fakeclaiming Spartacus, and misleading town off their partner for Day 2 and 3 for quick victory.
    I mean, no. Claiming Spartacus is not a free ticket for a townread in any way lol.
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    ►►Re: I'm Spartacus Game Thread◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    I find Brendan's line pretty ironic. Brendan came out of the gate with his claim, trying to lead the town to vote Nightbringer. Yet says if he were evil he would come out of the gate, trying to lead the town.
    Indeed. He was clearly toying with WIFOM regarding this; the fact he did nothing else is really bad, though. If he was town, he severely misplayed in my opinion, and I'm going to assume he didn't just do that lol (even though we should play as if he were town for now in my opinion, since if he actually was town, we would have less wiggle room right now).
    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    I guess Oliver is gone.

    Well, my current pov on him is this: Would Scum?Oliver jump on the mass wagons on brendan and make it bigger for easy mislynch? Or would scum?Oliver join a counterwagon against one of the loudest player in the game.

    I feel like he would probably do option A. The only way I could see him being Mafia is if hes also mafia with Brendan and is trying to protect him.
    I like this, especially since it was done pretty much "live" in the thread as Oliver posted (around 30 minutes after, counting the fact PoD was posting about other stuff before replying to this). I like PoD more now.

    --> which leads us to the remaining suspicious low-activity slots! SuperJack, Ewian, [Taffy?] (I think Oliver is at the very least not a priority lynch; if he ends up in final 3, then I'd just assume he was probably scum with Brendan and that's all there was to it, but for now, I'm inclined to push actual question mark slots we want to either sort out or straight up murder before we reach lategame)

    -vote SuperJack
    The time for strong content from you is ten times overpast. (will see if you posted stuff I haven't read yet but yeah)
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    ►►Re: I'm Spartacus Game Thread◄◄

    I AM HERE, I EXIST
    My apologies for vanishing into thin air for so long lol, I had a very fun but very busy day.

    From EoD1:
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    I honestly feel like Nightbringer was really scummy this day, and i really think we should lynch him today.
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    the reasoning for my scumread are:
    mech-focus overr the past phase (which diverts attention from the solving)
    Strange MM reads
    According to this, you should have been all over PoD, burying him in a solid push, considering at that point in the game, he had done nothing else, barring some very recent "I don't wanna lynch Brendan". Nightbringer, on the other hand, provided reads and tried to generate discussion - which is not at all outside of what I estimate his scum range to be, for the record -, which makes this point a little strange.
    I don't get what the intended meaning of this line is.

    Note that I'm not accusing you of being scum; on the contrary, I'm actually tempted to say this strange attempt at reading is genuine, due to its sheer lack of ability to convince anybody lol. I doubt you'd even believe this would allow you to gain any traction whatsoever as scum.
    Actually, scratch that. I went to check the EoD1 votecount and saw how close it was with Brendan. There is a rather significant possibility that you tried to justify your vote on the counterwagon with a (bad) explanation in a scum!Brendan world.
    That said, I'm keeping the first idea around as well, because if you are indeed scum shielding your partner Brendan, you're already pretty much screwed and can be dealt with later so I'm strategically saying I like you for now because I believe we should act as if Brendan were town, no matter what he actually was, and adjust if the game doesn't end upon the Legionnaire flipping.

    Still wouldn't mind having you explain your thought process regarding Nightbringer, by the way; you shouldn't be given a free pass either.
    Quote Originally Posted by powerofdeath View Post
    Think he meant if everyone agree hes clear and we just lynch randomly among the 8 people outside of him its 25% chance to be right. You're right we 100% are lynching today because not lynching today mean town's # of mislynches go from 2 to 1 before loss.

    So while you might be right, Scum?Brendan could be trying to bait claim/or preparing in advance to not be voted. I'm trying to see the intent of town?Brendan claiming as spartacus, he might be trying to rally people to vote with him.
    While I just said we should work under the assumption that Brendan was town for the sake of safety, I do actually believe he was probably scum. "Trying to rally people to vote with him", the intent you proposed as town!Brendan's for claiming, makes little sense if we consider his general way of playing: if he had wanted to do that, he should have tried to solve actively and post convincing reads, etc., whereas he was bloody useless when it comes to solving lol. It simply doesn't match.
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    ►►Re: I'm Spartacus Game Thread◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by The Nightbringer View Post
    Look at you coming to my side begging others to talk. How amusing. I suspect you are piecing things about me, all I will say is unless you intend to lynch me... Just keep it to yourself and smile, you are probably correct. ; )
    The wifom... I cannot handle it, it is too powerful

    you know i know you know i know you know i know you know i know
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