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  1. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Put in whatever 'I told you so' statement here. No scum would ever do the stuff I did in a million years.

    Probably is Yayap.

    A part of me wants it to be Mizery though. Like every time someone has said 'This behavior is scummy' they come back with 'Yeah, some people have described my scum play like that.' If it is them snarky honesty is fucking hilarious and they should get the win just for the comedy of it.

    -vote Helz
    For the lulz. I hope it works out.
  2. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Guillo View Post
    Fuck it. Im killing Helz

    Sorry if Im wrong.

    -vote Helz
    Its alright. I will try to slip in a cheeky 'I told you so' post just before days end but if I don't make it know that I died grabbing some delicious chicken wings with friends : )
  3. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Do whatever you want.

    I will note again that was frustrated yesterday when I was not even on the chopping block. Even spammed cat pictures at one point.

    I do not like playing a game where I feel like I can not play and that is how I have felt. To include this moment. Saying all the things I have already said will do nothing.
  4. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Also if Mizery is not going to vote and I do not its just the town block. If Yayap thinks I am the scum and Mizery is town he also has no reason to self pres.
  5. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Guillo View Post
    Then why aren't you voting Yayap?
    "To underscore it I won't even bother to self-pres"

    If the game is locked in with 2 lynches that will be exactly myself and Yayap the coin is already tossed.

    So if the RNG or the vote falls on Yayap and he is town the game is over anyways. Whats the point? Peoples minds are made up, I don't see anyone trying to read me and me getting worked up about it just managed to offend you yesterday so I would rather just let it go. I can not be too mad about it given I pretty much single handedly forced the game into its current state.
  6. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    If Mizery legit slept to the solo win its gona be pretty funny though
  7. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Guillo View Post
    Ok then

    -vote Helz


    Rest assure you will get justice if you flip town.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guillo View Post
    You know what's the best part of being confirmed town?

    That I can act scummy as hell and scum can't push me for it lol.
    Lol. This is true.

    I will flip town. I have never just let it happen but thought about it this morning and figured there is no point worrying about something I can not influence. To underscore it I won't even bother to self-pres. If players were asking me questions and trying to read me I could influence the outcome. Ironically the removal of the ability for scum to influence the outcome is exactly why I pushed for a follow the cop strat.

    My money is on Yayap over Mizery. His shading when people are town read feels like an intention indicator and I feel like he is very intentionally misrepresenting the value of my mechanical play.
    So saying its valid or not is one thing, but not focusing on the motivation for it is quite another. Even in a world where I am totally wrong and my deductive logic was shit the question should still have been 'why' I did what I did as opposed to 'what' I did. I just do not see that thought process in his posts. Instead its throwing shade to say 'Actually you shouldn't be read as town because your math was bad'
  8. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Yayap View Post
    I just used Helz because he was the leading vote when I posted it. If the game ends, then gg... but to demonstrate the point of his math being wrong, I have to show what happens if the game doesn't end.
    I don't see how you do not see that it is AI to force the doc onto the obligated scum target. And yes the game would end in a 1v1 'almost' always but allowing the priest to make a decision to designate the kingmaker held real value imo.
  9. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    If the town block is decided that Mizery is off the table regardless and its me/yayap I do not think the order maters.

    Could even just let it RNG between us but if the game is decided it is what it is

    -unvote
    So it does not hit our beloved host : )
  10. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Yayap View Post
    The only problem is that if we are both town, neither of us can really point out Mizery just coasting to the finish line while we stare each other down.
    I have considered this a few times and I have no solution.

    I pushed you at the start of the day to bait a reaction from Mizery but got nothing. Saw a very slight potential town slip D1 and have next to nothing to go on. Solving them tomorrow will probably end up a coin flip which sucks.

    I get frustrated when I sign up for a game to play and feel like I can not play. It makes me wonder what we are even doing. If we are not here to talk, scumhunt, and sort alignments what is the point? Watching the game move in a direction I know is bad while nobody seems motivated to even raise a finger to question if its bad or not sucks.
    I do not see people pushing etchother or arguing motives. It more looks like people are just waiting for the clock to tick down in a game where town has no viable night actions. Tommorow the town will be in worse shape than it is today with little information gained and the bitch of it is that its happening while we have 2 semi-confirmed town.

    Maybe the problem is I am too focused on how I feel the game should be played but regardless of manipulation or skill I figure that should be able to be very clearly read.
  11. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Yayap View Post
    But the math you presented is actually flawed. It really did make no difference.

    N2 doc failed heal on SB
    D3 doc claiming = Helz, Mizery or me gets lynched
    N4 doc dies = Guillo kingmaker vs the last 2
    result: 1v1 on D4

    N2 doc failed to heal
    D3 doc not claiming and not exposed = 1 unconfirmable gets lynched (Helz to demonstrate)
    N4a I get killed = Guillo vs Ika and Mizery both claiming doc
    N4b Ika is killed = Guillo kingmaker vs Mizery and me
    N4c doc healed Guillo = Guillo and Ika vs Mizery and me if scum doesn't claim doc
    N4d doc healed Guillo = Guillo and me vs Ika and Mizery both claiming doc
    n4e doc healed me = Guillo and me vs Ika and Mizery both claiming doc (Mizery could even claim he healed Guillo and we wouldn't know)
    all results: 1v1 on D4

    N2 if the doc successfully healed. Then today we would have Guillo, SB confirmed vs Ika*, Helz, Mizery and me
    D3 doc not claiming and not exposed = 1 unconfirmable gets lynched (Helz to demonstrate)
    N3 Scum can 50/50 the doc and the other unknown
    D4a (if Ika died) Then its Guillo and SB as kingmakers vs Mizery and me
    D4b (if I died) Then its a Guillo and SB vs Ika and Mizery both claiming doc
    all results: 1v1 on D4

    N2 doc successfully healed
    D3 not exposed (helz lynched)
    N3 doc healed Me
    D4 then its Guillo, SB and me vs Ika and Mizery
    Resulting in town win

    Literally the only thing Helz did by showing his math was ensure that the last option would not happen. All other options are a 1v1 on D4 with a different kingmaker depending on who died N2.
    The really substantial factor was that it pushed the doc onto the town block and killed WIFOM for the rest of the players taking a heal chance from 1/6 to 1/2. The play makes absolutely no sense for scum.

    And if you mean the gamestate for Lylo Priest got to make a decision to put Guillo as the king maker which was also a change. We will see how that shakes out. I think he wanted to step back instead of having the game thrust on his shoulders.

    For a pertinent question- You keep throwing shade on everything that makes others look town. But do you believe that I do not believe what I am saying?
  12. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Guillo View Post
    Helz, have some class please. If winning the game for you is more worth it than the fun and respect of your peers then go ahead and try to win, im not playing with you again. The Helz i played with at KRC and here are day and night, im very disappointed.

    Im gonna kill you, because i scum read you. Because your progression on Yayap sucks, because killing Stealth instead of me points to someone who believed had me pocketed and that is between you and Mizery. Yayap has no reason to let me live when ive been completely tunneled on him, i even said yesterday that if Luona was not it, Yayap was gonna be next. Stealth said that it was almost the same line of thought he had.

    Stealth would have pushed for your elimination before Yayap and if not he would pushed for Misery whom he also suspected. You and Mizery had every motive to kill Stealth.

    Even with Yayap bailing out today, i dont think i will ever kill him in this game, if he is scum, well played, he snowed me.

    And the worst indicator is your najor shift in behavior, when you thought you had me convinced you acted politely, tried to look helpful with mechanics deductions etc.
    But now that you are getting pushed, boy all of that went out of the window and itís even personally attacking us. Where did that leveled head go?
    I am sorry you feel that way. I stepped away from playing for a personal reason we can talk about post game but yeah. I am much more crass than I once was and I have more limitations than I once did in some respects. I apologize but I really am frustrated.

    It really does not change that I feel blindly avoiding the subject of how my actions make no sense for scum is dumb. Its intentionally blindly avoiding a glaring subject. I have the game solve and did work I feel makes me absolutely unquestionably town and people do not even want to talk about it.

    Put yourself in my shoes. Its not like the town is working to clear me. Nobody is asking me for reads or explanations. The town does not give a shit. Im not going to pretend like that is not the case. Im sorry if I have offended you but yeah, I do feel like I should be a very overt town clear given how I shoved both the NK and the heal into a 50/50. I can say it a million times but there is no reason scum would ever ever ever ever ever do that. Pushing someone that did is really bad play imo; and its 10000% worse to do it without even addressing the subject like it is not even a thing.
  13. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Spoiler : A few photos of what I think of towns D3 play :







  14. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    Anyway, the reason I suspect Helz as the final scum from today's chat after Guillo push on Helz is this.

    We know Guillo and I are town. We all read Mizery as town. So it leaves down to Helz and Yayap as prime suspects. We also all agree that if we mislynch today, the last two have another chance tomorrow.

    Given this information, there really is no reason to be upset/defensive about being the lynch target for Day3 because we can just lynch Yayap on D4. Yayap knows this and he hasn't really reacted to anything except giving his analysis on players.

    Helz on the other hand, when it came to Guillos push, he has been anything but. Maybe that is how I feel but Helz has been AtE in a situation where it really does not matter, sounding seriously disappointed we are pushing for him. Helz has given us with a lot of information and strategies, but that might have been to read as town, and also to push me to the last 1v1 day, and we all know I shouldn't be in that situation. Martin also acted strangely, even in the eyes of a newbie. The above reasons do not feel out of place for me.

    If we are wrong, we can lynch Yayap tomorrow unless Mizery is deduced as scum.
    To be very upfront I think even considering me at this point is really fucking stupid. I keep saying it over and over but in what world does a scum shove the doc onto a 2p town block while pointing out the scum has to kill there and then kill there?

    If I was scum and did it to pull the doc off some other PR sure, makes sense.
    If I was town and did it to push the doc in the right dirrection increasing the chances of a kill block- sure, makes sense

    But as a scum who needs to kill in there to push the doc to cover the people I need to kill? Yeah. Im going to disrespect that window licking logic and say how stupid it is because I know if we simply lynch Mizery and Yayap the town 100% wins. The hilarious part of it is nobody has even bothered to suggest I did some epic level super high risk play to self town confirm to discredit the point. People just keep lethargically ignoring that it even happened without a care like a stoned cow in India.

    Then past that hardly a point has been made I can even speak to. Its not like I have the town grilling me for reasoning on my plays. I was very transparent about them but the most substantial case has come from.. what.. Martian's play?

    If the town was even fucking trying to sort me I would be less irritated about it. So straight up. Disrespect to the read on me (or apathetic lack of one) and when I flip recognize it was not my bad play or scums good play- it was shit play from town that made it happen.

    /Ate
  15. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    I do agree that Olis last comment was very odd. That is also why I brought it up because I thought I was a relevant information.

    I think we need to come to a general agreement on lynch process for today and tomorrow.

    Will everyone post your suggestions on lynch targets for today and tomorrow?

    There is a high chance I may not be killed today because I doubt blademaster has used his ability. He might just redirect my skill while killing, so if he still has charge, he might kill Guillo instead, leaving me as kingmaker in 1v1 situation which I really dont want to be in given lack of experience and player knowledge.

    If you can give me who you will be lynching today and tomorrow and we come to an agreement, even if I live instead of guillo, we can lynch the right person.

    So far from what I can gather it is either helz or yayap
    There is no chance of you being the lynch. It would pretty much be literal gamethrowing.

    I doubt the redirect was not used. It quickly became apparent there was no vig and with the D1 lynch its likely N1 they redirected to break up the town block. I would have anyways.

    Saving it to kill Guillo isn't impossible but its very unlikely. If it comes to that your shooting at 50/50. I would consider just making your own read using dead townies for reference and ignore the arguments of whoever's alive if your not confident in making reads from interactions.

    Yayap has been more pushing against reasons to town read people than pushing reasons to scum read them which bothers me. Like he is more focused on others not getting cleared and waiting for the game to unfold.
    Mizery has been pretty apathetic to the degree I am not certain how to read them. Even having a game solve they have not pushed any specific way but have also not acted twords self pres.

    Still currently favor Yayap over Mizery. Years back they had a clear transparent town style and would take on a strong leadership role when they felt it was needed. This game they have been so very passive and I feel like they are substantially holding back.
  16. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    Oh oli voting yapyap probably means it's yapyap huh
    My point was simply that it sucks nobody has even bothered to talk about it.

    The guy was getting lynched and he gave that as a last read. That Yayap was scum and with some very odd reasoning.
  17. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Guillo View Post
    The glaring thing i got on Helz will follow shortly
    Its a good thing I didn't hold my breath : )

    Still feels like you made up your mind and are justifying it after the fact. Maybe you are just burnt out but its not gona stop me from calling it what it is.
  18. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Guillo View Post
    What im not liking about @Yayap is that he bailed out after i flipped on Helz. Like scum who is content that the town leader is tunneling a townie. Thatís the impression i get I dont know
    I don't think his timing is AI. He is awake while you are asleep and asleep while you are awake. And I do not think he is the kind of player to shift their schedule around the game.
  19. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Guillo View Post
    It wouldnt have mattered because the recommended heal was between Stealth and I, you recommending outside of it would make you look sus
    There was a big difference between recommending to heal someone and pointing out how the scum would absolutely loose unless they hit in that window semi-obligating the doc to heal within that window.

    Like I said earlier, You made up your mind on me without reading me and I am going to drive home how absolutely awful your push on me. The idea a scum would point out they are semi obligated to attack between 2 people and intentionally push the doc on it, then follow through and attack between those two has to be one of the worst lines of thought I have herd in a long time.
  20. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Conversations I was waiting to hear about to know Yayap or Mizery had bothered to Iso olliver. Totally AI posts from the confirmed team scum.

    Again, reading people from what they have not done has never served me well but its part of why I feel like people are not putting much into the game.
  21. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Or shortly after
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    Cu in dead chat.... you will be the responsible.
    At the time it sounded like the 'I told you so' of a dying townie but post flip it was again, never mentioned.

    Could he have been talking to Mizery who was online at the time? Responding to me who he had answered 2 posts ago or maybe Yayap who he was just talking about?
  22. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    I did ISO oliver and was completely wrong about Luona
    I feel like theres some posts that should have had some discussion. Like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    -vote yayap

    Going to sleep.
    I liked the analysis of helz on guillo - i recognised my own points.
    And if guillos town he makes good reads, and he read yayap scum.
    Yayap also said "im going eqting breakfast" "going sleep" etc...
    Scum care about appearance, so saying that is a scumtell.
    Lumi teached me that.
    So his last vote is on Yayap because... he said he was going to eat breakfast...?

    Maybe we could WIFOM about if this was an attempt to distance, frame or multiple levels of distance but my god does the post stand out and nobody has even mentioned it.
  23. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    One thing that didnt sit with me right after n1 was this.

    I healed Guillo n1, because he was PR, and his death would mean 2 confirmed town reducing to 1 confirmed town (Guillos death would mean SB is also confirmed), also if SB is dead, that would still mean Guillo isnt confirmed. Also I felt the scum wouldn't hit the 'obvious' target SB as was the general consensus as doc would be on him. So my heal was on Guillo.

    Helz reinforcing Guillos idea that he is a poorer choice between the two publicly, when Guillo is the most important doc heal target for n1 in my opinion, and then Guillo was attacked and healed, something felt wrong here.
    Duno what to tell you there. I wanted to make sure the priest saw the logic and I very specifically noted how it was anti self-pres for Guillo to push that making me trust them more. The fact I walked into D2 thinking the game could be over with a heal off the town block could help you read if I had TMI on the situation though.
  24. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post

    For the sake of clarity: this issue is being investigated by staff right now and will be fixed as soon as possible. The ban is obviously not intended.
    -vote Marshmallow Marshall

    Lynch the staff for OOG influence in an FM game! They are obviously trying to silence Ikar!
  25. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Yayap View Post
    Helz tried to use that against me based on my past meta - but completely ignored my changing circumstances for when and how much time per day I play FM. And just throwing out a blanket "Yayap isn't posting enough" instead of even looking to what I could contribute to the conversation. Even though my post number is low - I'd say most of my posts have at least been impactful to the game.
    Yeah. I have actually come to believe that was by far one of my least reliable thoughts. I do remember the FM you are talking about though. I can not remember a time when feeling 'This guy should be doing more' worked out correctly while it did throw me into unproductive TvT's many times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yayap View Post
    Not gonna lie mizery but there is little I can say truthfully that would make me look towny. My town play and my scum play are near identical and to lynch me, you might as well flip a coin to read me. Helz knows that thus why I wouldn't expect any progression in his read on me Guillo (not trying to defend him but that part of your read is inaccurate). The reasons I find Helz scummy has nothing to do with his read on me but how he has been reading others and trying to influence them; focusing on mechanical endgame scenarios when it really didn't matter if we were aware of it or not, it would happen naturally; his claims that he would like to set up a trap for me is strange because he should know that I wouldn't fall for it... and if I did, I would have a perfectly reasonable explanation get myself out of it.
    I very much disagree with the mechanical conversation not mattering. It had strong potential to end the game in towns favor. This idea that I am scum who shoved the doc into protecting the 2p town block while shoving the scum to attack in the same 2 players and then did a night kill on that block is so stupid to me I just do not respect it. Oh, And I guess I did that while recognizing the priest might be the new player instead of just exploiting their inexperience as scum eyh? And apparently I did that after not jumping on the established wolf train which is counter self pres. Calling that wolfy play instead of pure town play just makes me laugh.

    I do feel like you keep throwing shade on the things that people townread others for this game which is what makes me not trust you. This just feels like one more example of that behavior. If it matters I overstated my read on you yesterday trying to see if Mizery would opportunistically flip to pushing you. They still felt totally disengaged.

    Part of what makes me apathetic here is that I have played a ton of games and I am pretty much never mislynched. I did not do any FPS gambits or anything to make myself scummy while I think I played well and had a positive impact on the game. I also do not feel like I am being pushed twords being lynched substantially by a wolf. History would strongly suggest its just peoples terrible reads by others if it happens I don't even feel bad.

    Even now I have not seen anyone else Iso Oliver. The flipped scum in a tiny game. Nobody has bothered to really dig through him for association tells. We have this complacent town half playing the game. Even Luona seemed totally chill with being lynched as a town. What can you even do with that?

    Maybe I could bang my head against the wall and do some deep reads on Yayap and Mizery but why should I? As a principle thing I kinda feel like 'fuck it' and want to kick my feet up and grab the 'I told you so' that comes with my flip. Which honestly, I get that I am biased but this push is really absurd to me given what I did to the game state even totally independent of the rest of my plays. I just have so very little respect for it and its not like there is even much of a conversation from Yayap or Mizery to divine my alignment.
  26. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    If you can not correctly read my alignment having 2 players to read it on and knowing it is not on me. Before I even got into the game I skimmed the thread and felt Martin was town. Apart from anything else there is absolutely no world where I would shove the Doc onto the town block as scum.

    I was up to something last night but won't bother following through. You sound like you have your mind made up before you even read me. Like.. Wut?

    Good luck in Lylo
    -unvote
  27. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    So how about your reads and reasoning?
  28. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    don't really care for the ate

    helz

    me and yapyap have the same solve in our minds

    kill the other two and game over

    you're not special lol
    Thats fine. Im annoyed with the participation in this game. The previous day I started spamming LOLCats for the same reason while I had no pressure.
    Its not so much ATE as it is irritation to play a game where people put in such minimal effort. Sucks to be the one putting in effort and explaining the same stuff over and over.
  29. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    Helz if you thought that a cw would have been good why didn't you vote on either of the dws
    While it is getting a little old referencing the same post where I have explained this
    https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...388#post972388

    I felt it would be a bad idea to start a counter wagon (as voiced in post 297) while I felt a subtle trap could draw out someone who wanted to push against the lynch.
  30. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Lol. I did that quite a few times myself years ago
    The odd part of how my brain works I remember an interaction we had many years ago where I called him Yapyap and he responded something along the lines of 'Why are you referring to me by my smurfs name.'

    Not game related but its kinda funny when you remember very specific conversations of no consequence years after they happen..
  31. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    Just realised it is yayap not yapyap.

    @Helz , could you enlighten me, because I seemed to have missed this. Why you didn't vote for Oliver?
    Lol. I did that quite a few times myself years ago

    I felt that they were the set lynch and I was just fine with it. It was more important to me to generate information from the lynch by making their teammate think they could save them if they were scum than to pile on an already set lynch.
    I personally think town should always run 2 wagons. So long as there is a counter wagon a choice has to be made. Remove 'another choice' and you can not put much value in the lynch train because scum see their team mate is going down and they either highlight themselves pushing against it or lynch their team mate to grab the town cred. I wanted to see if I could get anyone to poke me to push a counter wagon. I find that often while scum will not directly push against it they have less reservations about poking others to do it for them. It was just a subtle trap.

    I did make a post on it twords the end of yesterday that was more in depth with quotes https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...388#post972388

    This is something that I noted again with Mizery yesterday. They pointed out how Luona was not pushing that they were scum suggesting that Luona was town. While I personaly would have seen anti-self pres behavior as a scum indicator I do feel Mizery thinking in that way reflects considering the other players thought process.

    In contrast I consider Yayap- When I saw a potential townslip from Mizery they were the one that pushed against it casting shade.
    When I came up with a mechanical game crunch they threw shade at me suggesting I was hunting for the priest
    With their timing on the Oliver train they did vote early but it was a soft vote without reasoning. The reasoning came later when they may have seen their teammate as beyond saving while echoing others views.
    When I explained my reasoning for setting a trap they initially phrased it as "Do you believe Helz excuse" reflecting their motive for shading me instead of divining my alignment
    Quote Originally Posted by Yayap View Post
    Do you buy Helz' excuse for him not voting Oliver?
    Like.. A town player trying to figure out my alignment would probably not start the conversation with a hard stance that I am making an excuse without also pushing I should be the lynch. Who was his vote on? Mizery. Why would he be convinced I was making an excuse to hide my scummy behavior yet not push for my lynch unless it was simply to shade?

    Off the top of my head a bit about why I am more focused on Yayap than Mizery right now.
  32. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Yayap View Post
    The part I was referring to was that I thought Stealthbomber was hinting to me that he was the doctor and Guillo was lying.
    What made you think this? Can you quote the post that gave you this belief?
  33. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    If its going to happen let me know and I will try to give you guys something for the Lylo. But ask yourself why in the world I would shove the doc twords healing the town block so hard and then attack in the town block if I was scum. That would be a really stupid play when I could have spent my time building reads and casting shade on the PoE while letting the doc heal between the entire player pool as a scum player.

    We should be pressuring both Mizery and Yayap for reads imo. I do not think anyone has been really comfortable with either of them the entire game and both of them have not been very forthcoming.
  34. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Guillo View Post
    Im thinking Helz is most likely scum now need to reread the game though before parking on him.
    The game is always frustrating when you have a 100% game solve, feel like you have been putting in more leg work than anyone else and watch the oncoming train wreck.

    I have only been mislynched 2 times ever. If you choose to make it a 3rd and fuck up the kingmaker play in Lylo I am going to mess with you about it well after this game ends.
  35. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Yayap View Post
    The part I was referring to was that I thought Stealthbomber was hinting to me that he was the doctor and Guillo was lying. Technically, Guillo could still be any of the PR options if he did pull off a gambit, which would be game over for scum (I'm assuming all kills happen at same time, didn't see Order of Operations in the setup).

    As for Ika revealing she is the doc, there were pros and cons for each, but mathematically it didn't matter. Personally, I think it came up to whoever was the doctor to decide if she wanted to 1v1 the scum in the last day or be dead/kingmaker in the last day.

    -vote Helz


    I did his doctor reveal math yesterday and knew the doc had to wait till today to reveal. I don't like that he pushed the idea for it to happen any sooner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    So if the priest healed someone outside of Guillo/Stealth they should reveal and the game is mechanically over
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Although a simple Priest reveal would put a 3 town kill in a PoE of 4 not revealing and a successful heal would also break the game in towns favor later so please don't reveal or soft or whatever.
    Keep it in context. I very specifically pushed for a reveal 'If' the non-kill was from a heal outside of Stealth/Guillo because it would end the game and I pushed against a reveal or any softing otherwise.

    Give me a bit of credit. As a scum I woulden't just run around asking the critical PR to reveal while also throwing a mechanical crunch that makes it a dumb idea.

    The two things I did not mention was that 2 successful heals at 50% chance per ends the game with a town win and that a successful hit on the priest would let them hand pick the king maker. Basically wanted to keep the heal at a 50/50 and not provide any incintive for scum to risk targeting the priest. Given the position they were in I would have gone for the high risk high return play to even up the odds which is also why I kept pointing out a shot outside of the town block would mean a town win. Poked it here
    Quote Originally Posted by Guillo View Post
    I'd recommend the priest not get greedy and protect SB or myself.

    So with that in mind, forcing scum to kill outside the town block where it's always a hit on unconfirmed town or priest, how does it look like
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I would rather leave it there because its just better but its why its a HUGE risk for scum to shoot outside of your town block giving priest a 50% heal chance : )
    (After giving a breakdown how a non-priest kill would work but not talking about priest kill implications in post 437)

    Also focused on this D1. I pushed that Stealth is a priority NK target and that killing Guillo is a terrible kill that confirms stealth to push NK WIFOM off the town block. Then I FoS'ed Luona as a scum/priest read to both give them NK insulation and lower their day credit given they could clear with a claim and would not need it. The idea was to shove the NK between myself, Ika, and Yayap which is part of why I poked at a non town block heal ends the game and that the priest should reveal. The other part was Mizery saying this
    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    it's either helz, ikarus or yapyap if guillo is truthful so this is p eazy
    Hinted at it again 330 and 331
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Still hoping I am right that the game is solved once someone says something specific.
    Followed by immediately saying
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Why exactly did you exclude Luona from that list?
    Not too subtly asking if Mizery had healed Luona.

    Anyways. Maybe that will fill in some blanks on any of my actions or motives. Figured everyone not priest/townblock should just go hard town for the best endgame so I did my overt obvious town game.
  36. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    To be blunt from my view if you both die town wins 100%. We should still consider some basic follow the cop strat to remove scums ability to swing but reading etchother allows Guillo and Ika to read us.

    With that said whats your read on me and Yayap?
  37. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    I fucked up revealing that bit on Yayap. Could have set a trap there
  38. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    well yeah but i wanted it to be in helz/yapyap....
    Or this is a low effort scum unhappy to be in a PoE with Me and Yayap?

    I will put in some real effort later. Its Halloween and I want to get into a bit of trouble tonight.
  39. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    -vote Yayap

    My gut is favoring Yayap over Mizery. The way he casted shade on me yesterday near the end of the day made me feel like he may have been a scum viewing me as having too much town credit and needing to dismantle that days before we could be in a 1v1.

    Mizery's play has not just felt apathetic, it has felt very void of making plays with any focus on self preservation or benefit for a scum player.
  40. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    Ok I'm the priest. I wanted to be a simple footman but the God said I should have a responsibility other than hauling food off mules.
    Kinda suspected that yesterday. I initially thought Luona was either priest or scum after coming to the conclusion Yayap though Luona was the priest. Dug through them and decided I really doubted they were the priest while I started to believe you were.

    Something he said near EOD2 about how I was wrong after I had voted Luona make me feel more confident I read him correctly there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yayap View Post
    I did notice something and it is in towns best interest that I never share it if I'm right. I'm guessing you noticed something different than what I'm referring to.
    So what is interesting now is that in the 3p PoE Myself, Mizery, Yayap 2 of us have a game solve with 2 lynches and the third is the scum. Its simply a question of which order each of us should push.
  41. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    I do not think you get to be upset about it after not only supporting the priest reveal but also all but flatly declaring yourself as not the priest limiting their NK insulation.

    Care to throw some reasoning with that vote?
  42. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Im also going to say that if we are not going to have a priest reveal we should probably set the lynch much earlier.

    It occurred to me that we could have had a last minute priest reveal and not had enough active players around to shift the train which would be an awful shift in the scums favor.
  43. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I personally like option 3 over option 2 and option 1 is just not gona happen.
    Ignore the numbers. I added in the 3rd scenario to get rid of a wordy paragraph later and did not change the 3 to a 4 and a 2 to a 3

    The logic is pretty clear though. The last option is the best LYLO + gives stronger lynch potential today.
  44. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    A priest claim may not be the worst idea.

    So with a misslynch + an Unconfirmed cit kill the games over leaving scum in a PoE of 1. Town wins

    With a misslynch + a Guillo kill we will end up with the priest claim and a scum CC leaving whichever other townie as the kingmaker

    With a misslynch + a kill block we end up with Guillo as kingmaker and scum choosing to CC priest or fight it out in the PoE with the other unconfirmed letting them pick their fight.

    With a misslynch + a Priest kill we will end up with Guillo as the kingmaker on a 1v1 between the unconfirmed cit vs the last scum

    I personally like option 3 over option 2 and option 1 is just not gona happen. The advantage of a priest claim today is that it also limits the PoE from 4p to 3p raising our lynch odds from 25% to 33% while designating Guillo as the kingmaker instead of allowing it to fall into whoevers hands.
    The disadvantage is we loose the chance of having an additional voice in that last lynch. With skipping not allowed we can not grab another day with last nights lack of kill block.

    I would support giving us a smaller PoE today for a better town win chance + ensuring we have a skilled confirmed town as a kingmaker tomorrow over getting a random kingmaker or allowing scum to choose who they want to fight. Feels like the better play to me although the Priest would pretty much have to rely on us winning today or sacrifice themselves to do it.
  45. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Anyways, I pinged everyone to just give a lynch order. Only Ika responded I believe. Pretty tired tbh.

    If you guys set the lynch order with minimal effort its almost a guaranteed win imo. Quite a bit has to go right for the scum player to have a chance. We are currently sitting with 4 votes on Luona.
  46. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Didn't mention but at any stage a lynch on the priest gets a claim and just shifts things, a lynch on the scum who claims priest and the priest CC's = a 1v1 thats solvable until D4. D4 its a 2v1 with a town kingmaker.
  47. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    I would rather leave it there because its just better but its why its a HUGE risk for scum to shoot outside of your town block giving priest a 50% heal chance : )
  48. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Guillo View Post
    I'd recommend the priest not get greedy and protect SB or myself.

    So with that in mind, forcing scum to kill outside the town block where it's always a hit on unconfirmed town or priest, how does it look like, im sorry if im being slow (i am sometimes).
    Now- 7p 2 conf town, 4 unconf town (1 confirmable pr), 1 scum
    Misslynch + non priest kill
    5p 2 conf town, 2 unconf town (1 confirmable PR), 1 scum
    Priest reveals- Scum CC's and town has 2 lynches so they both die and town wins
    Priest reveals- Scum does not CC and town lynches between a PoE of 2 and town wins
  49. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    There is a piece I am not going to say because it would only coach the scum but its a bit better than that.

    I specifically like the idea of playing follow the cop because it wrecks any chance for scum to bend the game in their favor through chat. (True to my name I like to put my opponent in hell and take every small advantage they could use)
  50. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft◄◄

    Absolute worst case situation if everything goes wrong we end up in Lylo with a town kingmaker shooting 50/50. And that requires a lot of lucky shots by the scum just to get there.
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