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[QUOTE=Oberon;891151]they privatized them and strictly controlled them, lol.
idk, it’s funny I’m the only one being debated with when someone left-leaning actually agrees with me that they controlled the economy (@Marshmallow Marshall)[/QUOTE]

How did they strictly control them?

Originally Posted by Oberon

they privatized them and strictly controlled them, lol.
idk, it’s funny I’m the only one being debated with when someone left-leaning actually agrees with me that they controlled the economy (@Marshmallow Marshall)

How did they strictly control them?

A prominent leftist supporting a government does not make that government leftist.

They are not hard to classify. They rampantly privatized state industries, were opposed to social welfare on principle, and broke up trade unions. Their economic policy is further right than the majority of world governments today.

Also their entire social welfare system was based on private donations, while they cut income taxes.

A prominent leftist supporting a government does not make that government leftist.

They are not hard to classify. They rampantly privatized state industries, were opposed to social welfare on principle, and broke up trade unions. Their economic policy is further right than the majority of world governments today.

Also their entire social welfare system was based on private donations, while they cut income taxes.

Also regarding the Nazis, they're extremely authoritarian and conservative socially, but economically I would say they're more center of right. Still quite capitalistic under the confines of a full-blown totalitarian state, mind you.

But I maintain that it's a bizarre and nonsequitous point to bring up in most contexts because rarely are the economics of Nazi Germany discussed or relevant to a discussion. I believe that the reason many people bring it up is to try to muddy the waters and make it seem like leftism and Nazism are related, or to dissociate the atrocities of the Nazis from racism, social conservatism, and authoritarianism.

Also regarding the Nazis, they're extremely authoritarian and conservative socially, but economically I would say they're more center of right. Still quite capitalistic under the confines of a full-blown totalitarian state, mind you.

But I maintain that it's a bizarre and nonsequitous point to bring up in most contexts because rarely are the economics of Nazi Germany discussed or relevant to a discussion. I believe that the reason many people bring it up is to try to muddy the waters and make it seem like leftism and Nazism are related, or to dissociate the atrocities of the Nazis from racism, social conservatism, and authoritarianism.

[QUOTE=Helz;891118]subsidized capitalism is the least effective structure of healthcare I have herd[/QUOTE]

I can't say I hold it as a paragon of an ideal healthcare system, but that's exactly how the Dutch healthcare system works, and it's very frequently ranked as the best in Europe on a number of measures.

Originally Posted by Helz

subsidized capitalism is the least effective structure of healthcare I have herd

I can't say I hold it as a paragon of an ideal healthcare system, but that's exactly how the Dutch healthcare system works, and it's very frequently ranked as the best in Europe on a number of measures.

[QUOTE=Oberon;890446]If you’re going to keep saying that, I will just keep repeating myself, you know that, right? :)[/QUOTE]

Isn't that what you already do?

Originally Posted by Oberon

If you’re going to keep saying that, I will just keep repeating myself, you know that, right?

Isn't that what you already do?

I definitely agree that the political spectrum is kinda dumb and very over-simplified. If you look at left vs right in terms of economics, I absolutely agree that the Nazis were certainly more centrist when you compare them to certain other brutally repressive authoritarian, yet capitalistic, regimes. Such as Pinochet's Chile or medieval feudalism.

However, it gives me pause when someone puts so much effort into making the argument that the Nazis were actually leftists or whatever. Like the idiotic Glenn Beck-tier talking point of "hurrrr durrrrrrrrr nazi stands for national socialism which means they are socliasts xDDDD". Or pointing to a single progressive economic idea they had, like welfare or something, as an example of them being leftist.

The reason is simple: the only purpose of those types of arguments is so that they can tie leftism with Nazism and repressive authoritarian regimes. You only ever see right-wingers trying to push this Nazi = left narrative, and it's always with the goal of trying to make it seem as though leftist economics or ideas are necessarily authoritarian. This isn't an idea mirrored by the left; nobody on the left as far as I know is going around saying that capitalism or right-wing economics were the cause of the oppressive brutality of the Nazis.

It's a very disingenuous thing to argue and deflects from the real cause of the atrocities during the Nazis' rule, which was rampant authoritarianism and racism. The sole reason anyone would bring in economics into such an argument is to a) try to falsely pin the blame on an opposing economic system, or b) try to diminish the role that authoritarianism and racism played in the Nazi regime. Or because they're gullible rubes parroting those same ideas.

I definitely agree that the political spectrum is kinda dumb and very over-simplified. If you look at left vs right in terms of economics, I absolutely agree that the Nazis were certainly more centrist when you compare them to certain other brutally repressive authoritarian, yet capitalistic, regimes. Such as Pinochet's Chile or medieval feudalism.

However, it gives me pause when someone puts so much effort into making the argument that the Nazis were actually leftists or whatever. Like the idiotic Glenn Beck-tier talking point of "hurrrr durrrrrrrrr nazi stands for national socialism which means they are socliasts xDDDD". Or pointing to a single progressive economic idea they had, like welfare or something, as an example of them being leftist.

The reason is simple: the only purpose of those types of arguments is so that they can tie leftism with Nazism and repressive authoritarian regimes. You only ever see right-wingers trying to push this Nazi = left narrative, and it's always with the goal of trying to make it seem as though leftist economics or ideas are necessarily authoritarian. This isn't an idea mirrored by the left; nobody on the left as far as I know is going around saying that capitalism or right-wing economics were the cause of the oppressive brutality of the Nazis.

It's a very disingenuous thing to argue and deflects from the real cause of the atrocities during the Nazis' rule, which was rampant authoritarianism and racism. The sole reason anyone would bring in economics into such an argument is to a) try to falsely pin the blame on an opposing economic system, or b) try to diminish the role that authoritarianism and racism played in the Nazi regime. Or because they're gullible rubes parroting those same ideas.

[QUOTE=Oberon;889792]I think the Nazis aren’t necessarily far right, and I think they are hard to classify as one or the other. Hitler himself stated national socialism was Marxism married to bourgeois ideology (so a weird mixture). I treat fascism as a separate entity because Mussolini’s Italy seems to have been less authoritarian than Nazism, which makes me wonder if Italian fascism was totalitarian at all or just a classical autocracy. There were no death camps, to my knowledge, in Italy, like in Germany or the Soviet Union.[/QUOTE]

Have you heard of the Night of the Long Knives, where the Nazis purged and murdered the entire socialist wind of their party that they were supposedly allied with?

Did you know that the term "privatization" came from the German term that was used during the Nazi era to describe their economic policy?

The Nazis aggressively privatized the public sector during their reign, while most other western nations were doing the opposite. You can (but let's be real, you won't) read about more it here: [url]https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1468-0289.2009.00473.x[/url]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I think the Nazis aren’t necessarily far right, and I think they are hard to classify as one or the other. Hitler himself stated national socialism was Marxism married to bourgeois ideology (so a weird mixture). I treat fascism as a separate entity because Mussolini’s Italy seems to have been less authoritarian than Nazism, which makes me wonder if Italian fascism was totalitarian at all or just a classical autocracy. There were no death camps, to my knowledge, in Italy, like in Germany or the Soviet Union.

Have you heard of the Night of the Long Knives, where the Nazis purged and murdered the entire socialist wind of their party that they were supposedly allied with?

Did you know that the term "privatization" came from the German term that was used during the Nazi era to describe their economic policy?

The Nazis aggressively privatized the public sector during their reign, while most other western nations were doing the opposite. You can (but let's be real, you won't) read about more it here: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...9.2009.00473.x

[QUOTE=Marshmallow Marshall;869282]humans are the best thing existing in the world[/QUOTE]

Yes

Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

humans are the best thing existing in the world

Yes

[QUOTE=BananaCucho;869253]Its a lot. Its every day. A way of life. Every part of your identity. In the temples mormons make this covenant:

"You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion. "

You have tons of rules, like no alcohol, tobacco, tea, drugs, etc. Strict chastity laws. Like no sex before or outside of marriage, no porn, no masturbating. Attend church every sunday. Pay 10% of your income in tithing.

You'll be given a "calling". This could be something as simple as teaching a class on Sundays to as involved as a scout leader taking kids on camps all the time, or as involved as a bishop (local leader of a congregation), or a stake president (leader of multiple congregations). Your calling will take up many hours of your time during the week, not just on Sunday.

You are expected to help convert people. Share the gospel with everyone. Invite them to church. Ever meet a mormon? They will share their faith with you, try to teach you, try to hook you and bring you to church and church activities. They are relentless. And its because its expected of them, not because they care about your wellbeing, "every member a missionary"

Its exhausting.[/QUOTE]

o shit nvm thats cringe lmao

Originally Posted by BananaCucho

Its a lot. Its every day. A way of life. Every part of your identity. In the temples mormons make this covenant:

"You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion. "

You have tons of rules, like no alcohol, tobacco, tea, drugs, etc. Strict chastity laws. Like no sex before or outside of marriage, no porn, no masturbating. Attend church every sunday. Pay 10% of your income in tithing.

You'll be given a "calling". This could be something as simple as teaching a class on Sundays to as involved as a scout leader taking kids on camps all the time, or as involved as a bishop (local leader of a congregation), or a stake president (leader of multiple congregations). Your calling will take up many hours of your time during the week, not just on Sunday.

You are expected to help convert people. Share the gospel with everyone. Invite them to church. Ever meet a mormon? They will share their faith with you, try to teach you, try to hook you and bring you to church and church activities. They are relentless. And its because its expected of them, not because they care about your wellbeing, "every member a missionary"

Its exhausting.

o shit nvm thats cringe lmao

[QUOTE=BananaCucho;869240]lol mormons believe that god was once a man on a planet, eventually reached godhood, and that they can become gods too. No I'm not making that up.[/QUOTE]

ok actually that's pretty dope wtf. how do i become a mormon?

Originally Posted by BananaCucho

lol mormons believe that god was once a man on a planet, eventually reached godhood, and that they can become gods too. No I'm not making that up.

ok actually that's pretty dope wtf. how do i become a mormon?

I think believing in god is cringe because you're literally admitting that there is someone better than you and that you'll never reach that level, which is beta as FUCK.

I think believing in god is cringe because you're literally admitting that there is someone better than you and that you'll never reach that level, which is beta as FUCK.

God is GAY and PISSES and SHITS all over the place

God is GAY and PISSES and SHITS all over the place

[QUOTE=Ganelon;869066]True, judging solely by that quiz I probably would be hard-right. I think that certain issues are more likely to be embraced by those on the right (like being anti-abortion), whereas some are associated more with the left, generally speaking, though.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=yzb25;869069]Yeah in practice the left/right divide goes far beyond economics lol.[/QUOTE]

I like to use more precise terminology than the American-centric left/right divide, so I'm a bit anal about that. It kinda bothers me that being right-wing is also associated in the public eye with being authoritarian.

Originally Posted by Ganelon

True, judging solely by that quiz I probably would be hard-right. I think that certain issues are more likely to be embraced by those on the right (like being anti-abortion), whereas some are associated more with the left, generally speaking, though.

Originally Posted by yzb25

Yeah in practice the left/right divide goes far beyond economics lol.

I like to use more precise terminology than the American-centric left/right divide, so I'm a bit anal about that. It kinda bothers me that being right-wing is also associated in the public eye with being authoritarian.

[QUOTE=Ganelon;869064]Center right. I’m not hardcore right except on economic issues.
I am close to the center anyways.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand how it's possible to be right-wing on non-economic issues.

Social issues on the quiz you linked fall under authoritarian vs libertarian, while left/right are strictly economics.

Originally Posted by Ganelon

Center right. I’m not hardcore right except on economic issues.
I am close to the center anyways.

I don't understand how it's possible to be right-wing on non-economic issues.

Social issues on the quiz you linked fall under authoritarian vs libertarian, while left/right are strictly economics.

[QUOTE=Ganelon;869062]That being said, I’m happy I’m not the only centrist person here.[/QUOTE]

But you just said you're the only right-winger...

Originally Posted by Ganelon

That being said, I’m happy I’m not the only centrist person here.

But you just said you're the only right-winger...

[QUOTE=Ganelon;868154][URL]https://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/political-spectrum-results.html[/URL]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]27101[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]

I don't particularly like these types of tests since they're pretty one-dimensional. Nonetheless:

Originally Posted by Ganelon

https://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/po...m-results.html

I don't particularly like these types of tests since they're pretty one-dimensional. Nonetheless:

[QUOTE=secondpassing;868454]Interesting to see how people can be isolationist and multiculturalists at the same time. Same goes for globalists and being for assimilation.

I thought they'd be connected.[/QUOTE]

Globalist/isolationist deals with foreign policy, multicultural/assimilationist deals with internal policy.

You can also be pro-immigration but anti-multiculturalist if you think that people should immigrate but abandon the values and culture of their home countries.

Originally Posted by secondpassing

Interesting to see how people can be isolationist and multiculturalists at the same time. Same goes for globalists and being for assimilation.

I thought they'd be connected.

Globalist/isolationist deals with foreign policy, multicultural/assimilationist deals with internal policy.

You can also be pro-immigration but anti-multiculturalist if you think that people should immigrate but abandon the values and culture of their home countries.

[QUOTE=yzb25;868144][ATTACH=CONFIG]27099[/ATTACH]

The phrasing of a lot of the questions is very hardline. I guess they do that to minimize "neutrals"?[/QUOTE]

damn dude are you a fan of Bread Santa?

Originally Posted by yzb25

The phrasing of a lot of the questions is very hardline. I guess they do that to minimize "neutrals"?

damn dude are you a fan of Bread Santa?

[QUOTE=naz;868141]Also fuck ai[/QUOTE]

fuck you ai is dope

Originally Posted by naz

Also fuck ai

fuck you ai is dope

[QUOTE=Ganelon;868135]Apparently I’m unitary. Dunno, definitely in favour of a federation.[/QUOTE]

Ya I think some of the questions miss context. I think I got so high in multiculturalism because I answered positively to all the immigration questions, but primarily due to positive economic impact of immigrants rather than pursuing multiculturalism (not that the latter is bad, just not the goal).

Originally Posted by Ganelon

Apparently I’m unitary. Dunno, definitely in favour of a federation.

Ya I think some of the questions miss context. I think I got so high in multiculturalism because I answered positively to all the immigration questions, but primarily due to positive economic impact of immigrants rather than pursuing multiculturalism (not that the latter is bad, just not the goal).

I promise I will not call anybody in this thread a bootlicker

I promise I will not call anybody in this thread a bootlicker

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ULUEYiW.png[/img]

clearly, I am a radical communist

clearly, I am a radical communist

[url]https://9axes.github.io[/url]

https://9axes.github.io