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  1. Forum:Circlejerk

    Thread:Create SuperJack a Bio

    Thread Author:SuperJack

    Post Author:MartinGG99

    Replies
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    ►►Re: Create SuperJack a Bio◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    SuperJack needs a Bio for the MU championship.



    Please, as many people submit (via post or PM) a bio. It can be as insane as possible, and I will hopefully merge them all together to create a ultimate Bio. You can reference my RL as much as needed ^^
    Just submit them your current Sc2Mafia avatar pic with "You want a bio?" in text

    Because the pic looks disinterested fmpov


    Other than that I don't really really "know" you or your full history with FM or this site so I can't really think of a bio.
  2. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Lottocracy

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:MartinGG99

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    ►►Re: Lottocracy◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Fair, let humans judge humans.
    But economics and stuff leave to the AI. That part can be done by just math? Also, it'll probably find the best usage/choice of technology for the longevity of the planet, environment and energy resources.
    Economics is also debatable within itself (due to the theory of subjective value) unless you're going for a perceived (namely objective) equality of resource availability, which would often be the most sensible option for a computer to handle I suppose. In which case, the biggest road-block isn't the AI itself but getting most (if not all) people to think that they want that equality-centric economy more than anything else they could have achieved in a non-AI led, but probably uncertain, economy.
  3. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Lottocracy

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:MartinGG99

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    ►►Re: Lottocracy◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Given the option, I'd be the first to give my consensus to the idea.

    But tbh, for that idea to anywhere realistic - I think the server would have to be the size of a big city?
    Realistic questions regarding practicality aside;

    How do you suppose a computer, presuming there was no error in rationality by the very humans that built it, would resolve ethics? Would ethics even exist in its perspective? After all, ethics is about what "should" be; per some (moral or not) justification by a human being.

    Furthermore, regardless of the answers to the questions before-hand, wouldn't these questions by themselves necessarily suggest that an AI ruler, even if perfect in its attributes, would be unfit to rule and lead humanity simply because it is obviously not human nor is evolved to be human in the way that human reasoning has become?
  4. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Lottocracy

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:MartinGG99

    Replies
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    ►►Re: Lottocracy◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Lottocracy is a recommended new form of government at the near end of this video: vsauce video (like, that's nearly the whole point of the 30min video)

    The idea is that it's a form of government where decisions are made not by elected leaders but by people chosen, literally, at random. Individuals chosen at random would have only their conscience to guide them more so than the politicians today - who have a power, money, reelection bias.
    Obv it'll never happen. If nothing else - those at power would never let it. Or so I assume so.

    After watching the video, to me, people's ability to reason is now looking bleak. A change like that or another seems necessary in order to reduce our inherit human flaws? I rather be on a boat with an inexperienced captain than on a boat who's captain has a fetish to slam into icebergs. \_(ツ)_/

    There's also the suggestion of having a national deliberation day, where people get together in groups and deliberate. I'd personally like that one tbh. Otherwise the societies progress stagnates due to our inability to truly reason on our own.
    I can't help but feel like you're giving an unfairly negative view here of societal or worldly progress simply because the video encourages disillusionment with the idea that any single person cannot be very rational.

    However, the fact is, and as the video goes to great lengths to point out, is that humans beings are social creatures (and are evolved to be as such). In the vast majority of times we like to be social and discuss things. When we go to learn or teach, its almost always (save for *terrible* teachers) done in a group or classroom of some sort. In the vast majority of cases, when we're trying to learn or think about things (that may be considered of a "rational" nature or concern), we discuss it with other people. After all, who doesn't like to feel "smart" or "intelligent" as judged by their peers? I mean, I have yet to see a learning program (or anything in society really) that actively discourage group discussions. Nor I have yet to see a person who didn't care about opinions they had unless they considered the subject to not be very relevant or important to them.

    With regards to this subject, I don't really have any serious concerns for humanity/society unless there's some sort of pervasive or dominate culture that actively discourages discussion or "intellectual pursuits" in general.

    As for the video's points regarding most social media, I would argue that it's simply not designed or optimized for group discussion. After all, most of the time they are designed to fulfill entertainment purposes (and to get as much data about you). Regardless of social media, I still think there will be some points in our lives where we go to discuss with one and another (ex: commonplace schooling). Just maybe not as much that might be optimal, but still something.
  5. ►►Re: MafiaUniverse's Mafia Championship, Season 8 - Nominations (vote here!)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    To place your vote on an eligible member, please use the standard voting tags: [vote]The member's username[/vote]. The winner will be our representative, while the runner-up will be our backup.
    SuperJack (9 [L-991]):
    Oberon, OzyWho, MartinGG99, Stealthbomber16, Auwt, Helz, Unknown1234, Frinckles, Varcron
    Helz (1 [L-999]):
    blinkskater


    If we follow the fine print, Helz is our runner-up since everyone but Blink voted with the flow

    Also, I'm guessing I'm the un-official back-up unless anybody else pops up? There's also the issue with Helz's ban from MU.
  6. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:The future "racism"

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:MartinGG99

    Replies
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    ►►Re: The future "racism"◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Yeah, but that doesn't mean they were seen as lesser than men.
    I think the definition of "discrimination" and the connotation it carries here is important.

    Even if we wholly accept they were not seen as lesser; that there was no ill-will in such beliefs or societal constructs, the law itself viewed them differently (a synonym of discrimination) because of sex. Most of these differences arguably disadvantaged women, and were not necessarily mandated by biological differences as a result of sex.
  7. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:The future "racism"

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:MartinGG99

    Replies
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    ►►Re: The future "racism"◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    I'm sorry for this probably dumb looking question, but what is "base-line developmental effects"? That combination of words I don't understand, and I tried to google "autism base-line developmental effects" but to no avail.
    Sorry, I don't really have a good set of words to describe it in a short summary. I'll explain it in more length now. Basically, while Autism **can** be treated in some respects (such as social support), in many other ways though it will still have an effect on the person.

    Take, for example, sensory over-responsitivity/overload. It's well suspected or supported that people with Autism (or even Asperger's Syndrome) possibly experience certain senses a lot more strongly or weaker than most people. This often occurs for when trying to hear. So, eventually, you can encounter stressful situations as shown by this video at 3:20. I'm not entirely sure, but I suspect for people who are lower on the spectrum can experience this more severely.

    As far as I know, there isn't a developed & effective way to treat sensory over-responsivity/overload other than to just

    a. Have them experience or otherwise learn what to expect in an environment or situation
    b. Use some sort of device such as the headphones shown in the video before-hand

    Regardless though, even if it's "treated" and you aren't stressed out by the situation, it can still be preety difficult to focus down onto one voice. This happens fairly common for me whenever I'm in cafeterias; unless I'm near a person, I can't tell what they're saying even though I can "hear" them just because I can't single-out their voice. If you want to know more about this "single-out" ability, in psychology its sometimes referred to as the Cocktail party effect.

    Keep in mind for most people with autism, this is just *one* of their challenges. While some aspects of autism can be treated with developmental support, others can't. This is also not mentioning that many people with Autism have a vast variety of potential comorbid conditions link.


    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Also, I can't imagine what does difficulty in social interaction have a do with the gym. \_(ツ)_/
    One potential reason for removing one from Gym class is the above with sensory over-responsitivity/overload. Given that a child with autism is, well, a child, having to deal with complex social pressures in gym (such as playing a team-based game like football) can be really overwhelming. And as with the other children, they are children as well and so they may make the unwise choice of not being supportive of their teammates especially if the see them lose because of someone else (even if that isn't the clear-cut truth, that's presumably how a child could see it).

    So, in some respects (and especially if the school is not supporting a good social enviroment), gym classes can be very meaningful in a bad way or in some degree traumatizing. Though I want to caution the word "traumatizing"; that doesn't mean it's like the worst of the worst that one can experience. It can still make meaningful life impacts though. Just not good ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Tbh, at least over the written text - I would never had guessed that you have a, quote: "neurodevelopmental disorder characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction and nonverbal communication".
    I can't imagine how that'd change if I met you IRL. I'm curious if you can think of something that I'd notice if met you in person?
    Well here's a few ways that my condition affects me, though some of it is rarely seen:

    1. I am typing here. I can formulate vast lengths of what I'm trying to communicate into typed words. If you met me IRL, chances are at certain points I would start doing a lot of stuttering especially if I'm discussing topics that I don't verbally discuss often or haven't before.

    I'm also high-functioning (if Asperger's were on the spectrum within the U.S.), so I don't really have as an adverse issue. More often than not past life experience have had just as much of an influence on who I am and how I interact today just as my Asperger's does.

    2. Per my earlier cafeteria example in this post, I would have difficulty understanding what you say in certain environments. There is no real way of mitigating this unless we used some sort of communication technology like an earpeice + microphone.

    3. Depending on the setting, you may find me walking around a lot. This isn't because I can't sit or whatever; this is just my way of fidgeting.

    4. My face (and other non-verbal communication) is more often un-responsive, though that has been improving in recent years as I've studied psychology among other activities in order to better understand myself and how to achieve my goals.

    5. For much of my life I had serious difficulty managing anxiety at times. I would say that this would've been apparent, but nowadays not really because I've shifted my mindset towards life in a way that helps me ignore + I understand it better. If I have a very unusual situation that is *unexpected*, that could have serious consequences, that's where my anxiety will become really prevalent. I would tend to want to stick by some sort of text-book interaction or rule because that would sometimes be the only level of expectancy towards the situation that I can get, which is important for managing my anxiety.

    6. I don't really do this when interacting with people (because I find it embarassing) but one thing I often do when excited at my computer, for example, is to flap my hands. It sounds absolutely ridiculous, but it's what I do. If I see an exciting battle or explosion and I don't have any pressing commands to do in a strategy-genre game, I'll occasionally just flap my hands due to excitement.

    About #6, I have absolutely no clue about the research or prevalence on this. I was once told by my psychologist that it's not uncommon for people with autism to have some sort of unusual reaction to emotions / excitement. Though it's not like I've studied it like I have for other aspects of Autism.
  8. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:The future "racism"

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:MartinGG99

    Replies
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    ►►Re: The future "racism"◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    I meant more in the realm of discrimination rather than biases.
    Though I'm now curious how will employer biases affect employee prospects.
    Well, isn't racism/discrimination just a more apparent form of bias?

    I think the point still stands unfortunately.
  9. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:The future "racism"

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:MartinGG99

    Replies
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    ►►Re: The future "racism"◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    By the way, if you guys don't mind me asking, which do you think is more politically correct? Identity first language vs people first? Autistic person or person with autism?
    I think its more politically correct to say "X with Y", like "I am a person with Asperger's Syndrome / Autism". They aren't defined by their autism, which is what placing the descriptor before-hand does or implies.

    It also sounds weird to say "I am a Asperger's Syndromic person".
  10. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:The future "racism"

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:MartinGG99

    Replies
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    ►►Re: The future "racism"◄◄

    Also

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Just imagine a scenario where let's say in 1000 years, for example, 1/3rd of people would be neurodivergant. How would the people handle it? Would they be more mature than people nowadays? Or they couldn't help themselves but secretly talk about the neurodivergents behind their backs, which would lead to "looking at them weird" - one thing leads to another and VOILA a new kind of "racism" emerges! And then even further in the future, suddenly the neurotypicals are in the minority and it's all in reverse.
    If you're asking if people in general will have biases against or for eachother for something or anything, then very likely yes.

    If you're asking if bias due to (specifically) neurodiversity or neurotypicality will happen, I'm not sure if we can say either way as sometimes it depends on the conditions themselves. For example, some aspects of cultures carry a passive stigma around having certain mental or health disabilities (or even for just visiting a therapist in general) and I'm not sure if they will go away any time immediately soon.
  11. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:The future "racism"

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:MartinGG99

    Replies
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    ►►Re: The future "racism"◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Maybe it's the diagnosis of autism that's changed, or rather, the threshold for getting diagnosed.
    Such a massive increase within not even a generation seems highly unlikely
    I'm actually quite curious about what picture this would paint on a spectrum for the data.

    I would hypothesize its mostly high-functioning cases (of Autism) that are suddenly being discovered; not that autism in general is somehow becoming more prevalent.

    One of the primary difficulties faced with people with high-functioning autism (or Asperger's syndrome in some cases) is that their base-line developmental effects are smaller but still in some ways noticeable. However, its not significant enough for most unaware people to consider to be an actual disability in some cases and may just write it off as eccentricity instead. So when awareness is spread about Autism, its more likely that someone with high-functioning Autism isn't just going to be written off as some weirdo or just some eccentric kid.

    I personally experienced the negative effects of when most of my middle school staff didn't suspect nor take seriously my developmental disability, and while I could write paragraphs about my overall experience I'll just leave a small bit of evidence that I recall: An independent psychologist had evaluated me, and wrote to the school (for whatever reason(s)) advising that I shouldn't be forced to participate in Gym classes (As per the norm for Maryland schools). They disregarded that; With lackluster school support I never really had any positive social experiences, and as a result had even worse social development. It's very important that developmental conditions or disorders get acknowledged and/or treated. If they are not then the effects can get much worse since it is developmental (affecting one's development) and therefore can have a compounding negative effect even if the original disorder or condition wasn't really severe.


    Side note: However, I'm not sure if Asperger's syndrome (which is very similar to high-functioning autism) is counted as having Autism in the data. Back in 2012~ish the APA in the U.S. had basically put Asperger's syndrome as a separate thing when compared to Autism in the DSM-5 (Yay the U.S. basically being the only one to do X thing again). Since the data only showed an increased prevalence rate, rather than decreased or other data around that time, I would assume they didn't count that.
  12. ►►Re: MafiaUniverse's Mafia Championship, Season 8 - Nominations (vote here!)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Ohh, I didn't know that. I wonder how does that work? Because only about half the players present in 2nd round / semis are there because of the player votes. The other half are Jury selected - and those are not ranked.
    Actually, I'm completely mistaken. Or somewhat mistaken.

    The Jury picked the subs for Round 2 and beyond in Season 7. https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...53#post4121753

    However, the OP post for Season 8 says this:

    If your representative needs to sub out during a SEMIFINAL or FINALE game, your community's backup will NOT take their place. Instead the next person who was in line to receive a semifinal or finale spot will take their place.
    Which suggests a point-based structure? I mean, all the other mentions of the jury don't clearly mention them picking subs/replacements.

    HOWEVER, this is the same wording used for the Season 7 OP thing. So I guess the Jury still picks?
  13. ►►Re: MafiaUniverse's Mafia Championship, Season 8 - Nominations (vote here!)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    I'd like to nominate Martin as CoolJack's backup.
    I don't mind being the back-up / sub, unless someone else wants to be that.

    Keep in mind that it only works for the first round of games. If SJ replaces out in the 2nd set of rounds then he'll be replaced by the next-highest person in terms of rank/points gained from round 1.
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Lol. It was legit a thing. Even in death chat I felt like I was still playing Mafia. Not sure if my pokes guided their kill choice at all but I was trying to get them to kill a less town read player.

    I feel like overall it was a really cool mechanic but it never really was played out hard? Like.. Dead scum became a median between the dead and the scum hunting for the dead priest who was a median between the dead and the town. Super cool dynamic there but I don't feel like it became any factor of note in the game as far as in dead and scum chats.
    Basically can confirm this

    Yzb25 never really conferred information from dead chat into scum chat unless we asked for it (such as possibly confirming NoticZ was contacted by Helz), which was rare and iirc nothing in dead chat that we asked about was super impactful. We did discuss things post-death though on plans and etc; Yzb did help a lot at some points with that in our discussions.

    We still don't know for sure who, in the end, that S-FM Magoroth cop-checked on n1. I still think it was DM/Rhand/DM.
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    Also if I haven't said it here yet

    gg wp everyone, thanks for the game @AIVION though I'm sorry that it has caused you so much trouble.
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Dude... dead on. Wtf how?
    I never suspected martin, and took very long to scumread mm.
    IIRC I think I was pinging him in a very general sense wrt tone. Especially with my wall post (Link), which he was dead-right on because the way I focused and looked into making my 1st wall post or two of the game (especially since it was a reads list) I had very likely failed to look for tone.

    At a glance as well it kinda sticks out compared to the rest of my ISO.

    As for whether "is this tone-deaf for Martin to say" idk and can only imagine for an outside perspective.
  17. ►►Re: MafiaUniverse's Mafia Championship, Season 8 - Nominations (vote here!)◄◄

    I'm not opposed to sending Frinckles again either, I just don't know if they're up for it.
  18. ►►Re: MafiaUniverse's Mafia Championship, Season 8 - Nominations (vote here!)◄◄

    -vote SuperJack


    Since he doesn't seem to mind.

    Maybe I or someone else here could act as a substitute representative.
  19. ►►Re: MafiaUniverse's Mafia Championship, Season 8 - Nominations (vote here!)◄◄

    I could go, especially if it began (say) 2nd or (even batter) 3rd week of May or later.

    I suspect at most I would reach 2 games played in the champs, after that people who spend more time in the game and/or out-post me would probably out-shine me. This also probably relies on a bit of luck that people would accept my play as being generally effective (or skillful) in the first place; as I recognize my style and (more importantly) my values in scum-hunting or wolfing is sometimes considered by others as unique, unusual, or sub-optimal. If I somehow magically reach the Finals, then I am probably not winning that as in all likelihood that'll cross into my next semester and my activity/contribution will possibly or probably drop.

    Though I will note I don't specifically want to go unless we need a representative and I happen to be the best or most-available candidate for it.
  20. Forum:Forum Mafia Discussion

    Thread:Gambits

    Thread Author:Helz

    Post Author:MartinGG99

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    ►►Re: Gambits◄◄

    (Off-topic from the OP)

    Quote Originally Posted by bakermir View Post
    I totally agree with you. D1's on this site is so weak, have we ever lynched scum on D1 here? I bet some of you did years ago but did it happen lately? I can't remember. Little amount of posts, almost no scumhunting have been the trend lately here.

    Does it mean we have good scum players? Do we allow scum players have more freedom? A lot of stuff to think about..
    I've actually heard from some players on other FM communities that I am in that D1 scum lynches (though I haven't checked the stats, nor do I have enough experience to tell) have had leaned towards historically bad games / scum wins. This is because 1st impressions from D1 can be or are very important and if the setup is not made to last like 5+ day phases or more at minimum then a D1 scum lynch can cause people to make mistakes; especially if they misread a bus as a townie push onto scum or a townie push on D1 as just simply misdirection even though a lot of people are generally wrong to some degree on D1.

    This isn't generally the reason why I will D1 bus sometimes, though.
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    If its not clear though, I am open to getting rid of Bahk or MM today. If you think that Bahk should go first, then sure.
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by NoctiZ View Post
    Well, I'll say that I do think the different ways that yzb has responded to voting either of them D1 does indicate something but trying to find out the intent is not easy. Be that as it may, I'll paraphrase some interesting points Helz has made:

    First of all: Everyone needs to be careful with their vote. It should be obvious, but especially this setup allows scum to coordinate during the day which allows them to snipe any town member here that currently has 1 vote. To add on:


    To which Helz summed up that #1625 means Bahkieh or MartinGG is scum and #1627 means either Martin or MM is scum. And since it's been 2 days since those votes it's reasonable to assume that both of those situations have 1v1 scum and one of them must be a scum player voting. Adding on:


    Further, a point that I liked a lot made by someone in dead chat is how insane it is for Martin to throw a "Let me just put this here" and vote. I definitely agree, now that it's been pointed out.

    All in all we should allow Rhand some more time to read up and I'll also keep discussing some points with Helz to add more town perspectives here.
    Wth? How is that insane? DM/Rhand is very likely mech cleared to me as I've said, that leaves you, Bahk, and MM. Before I placed my vote that was quite evident to me and I have less faith in MM or Bahk being town rather than you, especially since you came into the day with good tone. That was even built upon by your re-reading.

    How does voting whom I think is scum, in a situation where I'm 66% likely to hit scum, such a bad idea when I'm feeling good about it?

    Like, the way I see it: I don't think I would let MM or Bahk live past an F-X. You can, and DM/Rhand can. Those two, especially after I looked into it more than I already had in my notes, appeared to be the most likely scum. Especially with MM's disappointing progression for D3, and Bahk's previous unreasonable outburst imo.

    Unless you're going to tell me there's a good chance of villager between the two in an environment where scum are almost at majority?
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I've re-read Mag's early D2 posts, and it's still true that the ambiguity doesn't exactly indicate a clear check on DM (hence why I thought SJ was the check, but that is impossible since he would've came up as TPR/scum, which would probably have gotten him a scumread). Perhaps he checked Helz and simply did not have any information? That would explain the utter lack of breadcrumbing from an experienced player. All of this leads nowhere, though: we only know we cannot count on any check information from Mag.
    I have difficulty believing Mag doesn't check DM and yet puts him as the 2nd top town. Especially when SJ could not have been green-checked.
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    Or, better yet, just subtly support the green-checked player and just don't out it until later and the Wolves have less time to prepare for it.
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by NoctiZ View Post
    I have re-read this whole game these last couple of hours and honestly, it has given me more questions than answers.

    I'm only half convinced that Mag checked DM. I'm cannot 100% tell if Mag had an honest read-switch from D1 to D2 on DM or if he actually checked him. He brings up the vote dynamics on D1 as reason to make SJ, MM and DM the town core. When I looked at the way that went though, both MM and Martin were on yzb pretty early on, but also switched votes to other people momentarily. DM had their vote on other people up until close to the end where they tried to place a vote on yzb but failed to do so.

    What's more interesting is that yzb, when Helz mentioned it and voted Dark Magician, was ready to sheep him onto DM to protect himself.



    Would yzb, as scum, jump at the chance to sacrifice fellow scum mate DM? A couple posts later he showed a reluctance to sacrifice Bahkieh instead, calling it "lame". Couple posts later he did jump onto Bahkieh though but said this:



    Failed vote in this case. Comparing the tone however, I'd feel most comortable with lynching Bahkieh today. And in case Bahkieh is scum, MM would be the most likely partner. I don't see Bahkieh bussing Martin with their vote two days in a row.

    -vote Bahkieh


    I'd love input on this though. scum!Bahkieh makes most sense to have scum!MM as mate but earlier during re-reading I also entertained both MM and Martin as possible town slots and considered a DM+Bahkieh team. In both cases I'd have Bahkieh down as scum though. If Martin turns out to be scum then wp, but it's a really close call for me here.
    It should be obvious that Noticz is one of the most likeliest to be town in this gamestate.

    The only thing I disagree with is the half/half implausibility of Magoroth checking DM on n1. With SJ being Powerful its quite clear that Magoroth likely genuinely town-read him for EoD1 and had no purpose in checking him. If he did suspect and wanted to check SJ, then he could've brought up that result but for some reason didn't. Which would've made for a completely sub-optimal and illogical play. To me, the optimal cop play is to check people who may be likely citizens/angles/vanilla or be likely to last long into the game if they aren't checked. Besides, if you do green-check a lower-influence player (IIRC Dark Magician wasn't doing much on D1 and was acting suspicious), then you force the wolves to kill that green-checked player unless they want it to be in an F-X situation. Which would give them less room to maneuver to win a F-X.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Are you saying your walls were scummy lol??
    I'm saying that I've specified (as well as Varcron in the distant past of this game) that my walls are generally NAI and you really really shouldn't judge me on the simple fact that it's effort.

    Like it's incredibly easy to effort both as scum and as town unless I got IRL obligations to deal with. I would imagine the same even applies to some other players. In other words: That reads isn't nuanced enough for it to be a good read.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    OOOooooo... that's a pretty good point. That means DM is probably town, unless Mag checked Helz on N1 and simply did not have a check. If DM is town, it leaves Noctiz + one of Bahkieh/you as scum, which could very well make sense associations-wise.

    What are your thoughts on Noctiz? @Bahkieh , same question.


    Worldbuilding =/= "dismissive OMGUS". The fact that you're discrediting what I did as OMGUS is actually quite OMGUSsy lol.
    1. My thoughts on NoticZ is that:

    1a. I have a more difficult time of finding buddies for him
    1b. I have bigger suspects than him
    1c. His tone at SoD was good imo.

    2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    I also haven't liked MM's recent posts and I kinda felt some of them were meant to put on a show rather than to genuinely act as town. Additionally, SJ + DM were both highly town-read by the cop role and either could have been green-checked imo.

    But if it isn't MM then I would have to look between you guys because I really doubt there's two to three TvT's going on here without a single scum in it.
    This looks like a defense of Varcron with doors kept open for later bussing if he can't get me lynched. Baseless (and evidenceless) accusations of me "putting on a show", and seemingly failing to see the obvious check on SJ and not on DM. Scum!Varcron -> scum!Martin.
    Also let me just put this down

    -vote Marshmallow Marshall


    Because his reactions to me before SJ hammered were just unsatisfactory; they're vague and dismissive OMGUS-y imo.
    Worldbuilding =/= "dismissive OMGUS". The fact that you're discrediting what I did as OMGUS is actually quite OMGUSsy lol.

    It is when you're doing that all the sudden just because you dropped in someone's reads. Now I don't have a photographic memory of D3, but I don't recall you essentially world-building on me until after you started dropping in my reads. You also didn't react in a way that I might expect from a player that gets accused of "putting on a show"; I would imagine a typical villager would react as if they're being attacked on their authenticity. Instead, you got this almost tone-deaf "ah they could be buddies with Varcron" suggestion without ever really defending yourself here other than just leaving it as a simple "baseless accusation".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    If this vote holds, this means either Bakhieh or Martin is scum (or both and that they're bussing eachother). We're at LYLO, scum could hammer town here if a townie misvoted, as long as they are both online. This puts scum #1 in Bahkieh/Martin and scum #2 in DM(Rhand)/Noctiz.
    While NoticZ *could* be scum here I don't see how that's the most plausible option here; DM as I said I think was green-checked. The fact that DM has been put through quite some doubt this whole game overall (iirc) only to end up as the 2nd best town-read on Mag's list was obviously meant to dodge looking like he had cop TMI to the wolves.
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    Honestly I would be okay with Bahk or MM going off today tbh.
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    Reading Bahk's ISO and my old notes on him I just feel bad about him as well. He's mostly coasting and voted for both Samson and Varcron.

    Additionally, he had an outburst of sorts on D2 during the (quoted) progression below and considering these posts are across a 10-something duration of time, it just looks fake to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bahkieh View Post
    Yo so sorry for not being around for like 2 weeks or so. Life kinda came at me hard and tbh I forgot to check in over here.

    -vote Samson


    Im down with this vote if its either this or me but I wouldnt be mad at yall for voting me so ye
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahkieh View Post
    Yeah everything is pretty much sorted now. Im good to participate more. That being said, Im absolutely trash at reads lmao
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahkieh View Post
    YZB is hesitant to vote me because I generally just afk coast the game as a citizen. Makes me look scummy I know and I need to break that habit.

    Top town reads? Anyone willing to vote me but not having me high on their priorities seems like a very strong likely hood to be town. DM thinking that either me and/or Samson have scum slots feels good to me and your interactions with me so far are sending me good vibes.

    As far as scum goes, you can generally find one in the lurkers and one with moderate participation. I havent reread the game lately so it will take me a hot minute to find the names that I like there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahkieh View Post
    I don't have the attention span to look back in the past 25 pages of content and pick a particular post for a reason why I think someone is town. I know you can look at that individuals posts but icba. Maybe I will feel more in the mood to read into it all later. When does day end? like 2 weeks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahkieh View Post
    I don't think there is hard evidence against anyone, but hey if ya want an easy lynch target on a useless spot, lynch me. I am this games equivalent to a citizen and I just don't have the attention span for FM in general anymore. I would just rather spend my focus on other things.

    I don't think myself more useful than Samson and like I said earlier, it was the riddle thing that rubbed me the wrong way. Just lynch me now so I don't become a mis-lynch later on in the game where it could cost the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahkieh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Magoroth View Post
    It's game throwing to advocate a yeet on yourself because "you dont care". Way to ruin your slot on this game.

    In my opinion this is just as bad as public rage quitting.
    Cool story bro
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahkieh View Post
    Look, I'm just frustrated. I know I have seriously fucked up my slot in this game with my behavior the past couple days and I am sorry about that. I am still gonna play this out. Again, sorry I became a complete cunt. I know this doesn't excuse my behavior.



    SJ feels like they feel over friendly towards me, kinda like they are pocketing me.

    Samson dropping the veil a moment actually made me like them more. I dunno anything about the character so ye..uhm neut for now?

    -vote MartinGG99
    He also wasn't under any serious pressure at the time I recall, and he even mentioned how SJ was trying to support or be friendly with him. And then he immediately shades that as possible pocketing. To me, if you make an outburst, you do it under pressure as town. Not outta nowhere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Magoroth View Post
    I'll go more into detail.

    These are Samson's posts for this day cycle.



    Actually being anti-helpful.



    This is Bahkieh's posts





    Bahkieh's posts are 10x more helpful, but I'll also admit the baseline is terribly low.

    Basically I'm picking between someone who wants to play DnD and someone who doesn't really want to read this game. I can understand replacements like Noctiz not wanting to read, but Bahkieh owes us a read because they were part of the game from the beginning.

    And if we lose because of this vote, I don't take blame for the loss. It's solely on Samson.

    I'd probably vote for Bahkieh if Samson flips town or if Samson starts being useful.
    Tbh, I don't see how Bahkieh's posts are helpful at all, so I don't even see the "multiplied baseline" of helpfulness that makes him better than Samson.
    That being said, I already townread you, and I can very well understand your reasoning about Samson, so since arguing about who is better between Samson and Bahkieh is like arguing about who is better between thin air and thin air, I don't feel the need to pursue that. I rather feel the need to see them say something substantial so that we can start actually reading them. @Samson @Bahkieh days are literally 3 weeks long, it's impossible that you have no time to play the game at all.
    See there's like this really big nudge from MM that doesn't really develop into something later on, even though the reasons here are basically the same reason he votes Samson.

    But he doesn't vote Bahkieh at all during this game, though he did vote Yzb25 (a flipped demon) on Day 1.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Other than that, in my townleans, I like Martin for his not too bad walls
    - _ -

    didn't someone say those were NAI or something?

    or was that not in this game?
    smh looking back it kinda feels obvious that MM is scum

    he just town-leans or town-reads me for very bad reasons
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    Honestly rn I'm leaning towards Bahk/MM.

    NoticZ's posts for this day phase ring to me on a good tone level, and I think somewhere in my notes I had suspected a Bahk/MM team.
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    Honestly MM dropping a big paragraph on DM without considering the meaningfulness that SJ was a TPR on his flip (which implies DM was the green check) is nagl.
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    I feel like MM is the scummiest out of them.
    Ebwop.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhand View Post
    Is anyone still playing this? Its hard to motivate myself to read 1600 posts for a dead game :/
    You're basically green-checked to me imo.

    I would like your help in trying to find the 2 scum in Bahk/NoticZ/MM.

    I feel like MM is the scummiest of both of them. The last scum is somewhere else in there.

    In practically all situations I can imagine, you probably get shot tonight because of the green-check so if you want a say in how this game plays out I suggest you consider giving your thoughts in that group.
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    Also let me just put this down

    -vote Marshmallow Marshall


    Because his reactions to me before SJ hammered were just unsatisfactory; they're vague and dismissive OMGUS-y imo.
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by NoctiZ View Post
    So.. first thought would be to go for DM/Rhand. But I do believe there's some stock to the idea that it's possibly TvT. I'll give it some thought before committing to anything.

    Honestly though, it's literally 50% chance for me to vote the right person, 2/5 overall of lynching correctly right now in this game. It's MYLO so we need to be right today but luckily today is a long-ass time in this game. Will probably expend more effort than I have up until now to go back and see who I'd peg as scum. My IRL stress has also gone way down finally so I freed up some mental space.
    SuperJack flipped Guardian Angel.

    Meaning if he were checked, he would've appeared as "Powerful" and that wouldn't have greenchecked him (Since there are still demons alive that appear as "Powerful").

    Therefore, I believe my claim in the last day phase was absolutely correct. DM *was* more likely to have been greenchecked by the Soul Probe (Magoroth) than SJ was.

    Also it turns out my read on Varcron is right.
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    To me that says DM is the green-check more than SJ is, though I could be wrong. I'm just saying the green-check on SJ isn't so certain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    He uses weaker wording for the DM read, and he literally put SJ above DM in his list of reads. When you have a green check, you put him as your top town read. Period. I don't see how you're not seeing it tbh.
    Yeah but if he was certain about SJ being town and wanted to communicate that he would've used stronger wording for that; not put his green-check next to a weak town-read on his readslist where he says "so I guess I think DM is good"

    like wth
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varcron View Post
    Also we already covered the horrible english in the post that sparked this off, so I am not going to explain myself again. I find it amusing that the only stuff you are using on me is from a week ago. The same points keep being necro'd and brought up with no new content, whereas your reads on everyone change on the daily.

    For example, my read turning from your "Top Town" to your "OMG HE'S SCUM GET HIM TROLOLOLOL"

    Then when I called Noc my top townread "EZ GAME NOC IS SCUM WITH VARCRON"

    Then when Martin voted MM over me "MARTIN IS YOUR SCUM PARTNER CAUSE HE DOESN'T AGREE EZ GAME"

    Like holy fuck, this is turning more and more into an Interesting situation with each passing day.
    ^

    see

    TvT dumbness
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varcron View Post
    I don't see how DM is town in both of those situations, you're basically implying that the scum are MM and myself from that phrase.

    I'm curious how you came to that conclusion tbh.
    Because Cop.

    I think its possible he was green-checked; I don't think every cop (or at least I wouldn't) puts their green-check at the top. SJ was basically spewed town iirc from Eod1, but I can't remember the reasons for that.
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    (If it isn't obvious, I think dumb arguments is more likely to be a tvt than not; Scum tend to like to hold more valid or solid reasons for scum-reading someone)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varcron View Post
    Near EOD1 DM was threatening a thunderdome on me for BD2, however as you can already see BD2 he cleared me as town, followed by some really goofy shenanigans where we are basically going back and forth now.


    Explain your vote please and give us insight into your brain.
    In red: Idk what BD2 is.

    Non-Color: Its more or less PoE tbh. I think the ongoing charade between DM and you is really dumb. Like DM is being a simpleton for !scum Varcron, and I feel like there have been obvious gaps in where he could have gotten a better understanding but didn't (ex: the english issue, and imo that can be nai). His shoveling of me into being scum with you is just baseless for the most part if not entirety.

    I also haven't liked MM's recent posts and I kinda felt some of them were meant to put on a show rather than to genuinely act as town. Additionally, SJ + DM were both highly town-read by the cop role and either could have been green-checked imo.

    But if it isn't MM then I would have to look between you guys because I really doubt there's two to three TvT's going on here without a single scum in it.
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    I'll check back here tomorrow for a short bit again.

    Otherwise expect me on the weekends until spring break in ~2 weeks for me
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    tbh

    -vote Marshmallow Marshall


    Though I think SJ's reasons are dumb.

    But the interaction between DM and Varcron looks dumber.
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    Not that I think SJ is scum but I think him saying he never votes DM was kinda deliberate
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magician View Post
    Unless this is a bastard game, Mag Green Checked you.
    Or Mag green checked you
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Agreed, I kinda forgot he existed actually. @MartinGG99 thoughts on the current situation?


    Okay, so afterwards he became town:

    But then he's "an easy scum solve":

    That happened in... 2 pages. Lol.
    tbh

    2 pages is basically taking advantage of how slow town has been as of late

    for all we know he could've been back-reading or simply had a change of heart after returning to thread after awhile

    I don't know if I have done that, but I might've had a change of heart on one of my reads after a lengthy absence on the thread
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    ►►Re: S-FM Eternal Conflict (Off Queue Game Ongoing)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magician View Post
    -vote Varcron
    why in the world do you quote the guy you're suspicious of as the reason why you vote

    he also basically regurgitated what you were thinking
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