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[QUOTE=10000JellyDoughnuts;970742]I'm not. I am saying this is a lot of waffling. I think it's scum motivated, however, I am just pointing out how it is for everyone else who didn't notice this.[/QUOTE]

Isn't this inconsistent with:
[QUOTE=10000JellyDoughnuts;970710]Frinckles is very suspicious with his voting power, and if it were between me and him... obviously him.

Oliverz is a tough read, I do not see anything that pings him as scum in my opinion. Let me go find your post about your question, I'll be happy to answer.


I don't know what you mean there.


Yea sure. T[B]his sort of behavior reminds me of his game as Cult Leader on HPM. He's usually more aggressive than this, and I think he's wanting to slip under the radar.[/B][/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by 10000JellyDoughnuts

I'm not. I am saying this is a lot of waffling. I think it's scum motivated, however, I am just pointing out how it is for everyone else who didn't notice this.

Isn't this inconsistent with:

Originally Posted by 10000JellyDoughnuts

Frinckles is very suspicious with his voting power, and if it were between me and him... obviously him.

Oliverz is a tough read, I do not see anything that pings him as scum in my opinion. Let me go find your post about your question, I'll be happy to answer.


I don't know what you mean there.


Yea sure. This sort of behavior reminds me of his game as Cult Leader on HPM. He's usually more aggressive than this, and I think he's wanting to slip under the radar.

[QUOTE=jmw;970738]I think they've felt nice so far - the spanish post, aside from being annoying to translate - was "staple Bakura" and I think he's been more engaged than I'd expect him to be as scum. It's a combination of "feels good" plus meta, and aside from that nice D1 response it's hard to pin anything down precisely, which is why I knocked him down a peg after Eevee pointed out that my read is a bit stale. I'm not really the best at reading Bakura - my track record for that is pretty poor, so if you disagree and think there are things I'm not considering I'd love to hear them.[/QUOTE]

I don't get in what worldview they have that specific read of the hydra though lol. Maybe in a different hyda with higher D1 conflict? Might be worth reading a clowns ISO from bakura's pov, idk

Originally Posted by jmw

I think they've felt nice so far - the spanish post, aside from being annoying to translate - was "staple Bakura" and I think he's been more engaged than I'd expect him to be as scum. It's a combination of "feels good" plus meta, and aside from that nice D1 response it's hard to pin anything down precisely, which is why I knocked him down a peg after Eevee pointed out that my read is a bit stale. I'm not really the best at reading Bakura - my track record for that is pretty poor, so if you disagree and think there are things I'm not considering I'd love to hear them.

I don't get in what worldview they have that specific read of the hydra though lol. Maybe in a different hyda with higher D1 conflict? Might be worth reading a clowns ISO from bakura's pov, idk

[QUOTE=10000JellyDoughnuts;970731]First post where he believes I am not scum


Then he progresses to me being scum, reasonable given my points

Could see a scum team

Then dislikes the vote on me from Ewian

Then says I'm not wild about lynching, but declares I'm in PoE.

Because of the points here.

Then declares that I am his top scum read, but is hesitant to do so.

This is a lot of waffling back and forth, or hesitant votes trying to distance himself from this elimination. I read this as a scum progression.[/QUOTE]

I'll be honest, I don't get why you're more inclined to read this as "scum hesitant votes" than a townie hesitant to vote because of capital-U Uncertainty. I am skeptical that any townie here is that confident in their reads, and I don't like that you're projecting a town meta of confidence onto me!

Originally Posted by 10000JellyDoughnuts

First post where he believes I am not scum


Then he progresses to me being scum, reasonable given my points

Could see a scum team

Then dislikes the vote on me from Ewian

Then says I'm not wild about lynching, but declares I'm in PoE.

Because of the points here.

Then declares that I am his top scum read, but is hesitant to do so.

This is a lot of waffling back and forth, or hesitant votes trying to distance himself from this elimination. I read this as a scum progression.

I'll be honest, I don't get why you're more inclined to read this as "scum hesitant votes" than a townie hesitant to vote because of capital-U Uncertainty. I am skeptical that any townie here is that confident in their reads, and I don't like that you're projecting a town meta of confidence onto me!

wait

[vote]ewianking[/vote]

wait

-vote ewianking

I'll take ewian > clowns > Jelly at this point (I think Martin's point shows there's some additional info a clowns lynch gets us, and their ISO doesn't point to an improvement since D1)

[vote]ewian[/vote] for earlier reasons. I think we can get a more solid read on jelly by D3.

I'll take ewian > clowns > Jelly at this point (I think Martin's point shows there's some additional info a clowns lynch gets us, and their ISO doesn't point to an improvement since D1)

-vote ewian

for earlier reasons. I think we can get a more solid read on jelly by D3.

[QUOTE=jmw;970717]This is good reasoning actually - I could drop Ewian to the Oliver/Frinckles tier and I think that's a pretty good encompassing PoE. Ewian's vote did feel like the worst of the bunch on Jelly. Do you have any thoughts on Drizzt yet? They're the hardest slot for me to read right now I feel.[/QUOTE]

Nope, sorry.
[QUOTE=10000JellyDoughnuts;970716]That's fine, but I also see in your ISO you waffle back and forth between me, and contribute very little. I've not figured out how bulk quote ISO posts yet, but I can point out which ones.[/QUOTE]

I'm going to ask you to prove a negative by asking you to point out which posts I'm not contributing in /s

I'm going back and forth for a couple reasons: first, it's hard to reason things out with just a few posts of content and not having someone to defend themselves and as such there's a few different POVs, b) because I some (e.x. Ewian) make kinda terrible arguments for lynching you, and I need to figure out whether or not that makes you more or less scummy.

Also, uh, I care about being right

Originally Posted by jmw

This is good reasoning actually - I could drop Ewian to the Oliver/Frinckles tier and I think that's a pretty good encompassing PoE. Ewian's vote did feel like the worst of the bunch on Jelly. Do you have any thoughts on Drizzt yet? They're the hardest slot for me to read right now I feel.

Nope, sorry.

Originally Posted by 10000JellyDoughnuts

That's fine, but I also see in your ISO you waffle back and forth between me, and contribute very little. I've not figured out how bulk quote ISO posts yet, but I can point out which ones.

I'm going to ask you to prove a negative by asking you to point out which posts I'm not contributing in /s

I'm going back and forth for a couple reasons: first, it's hard to reason things out with just a few posts of content and not having someone to defend themselves and as such there's a few different POVs, b) because I some (e.x. Ewian) make kinda terrible arguments for lynching you, and I need to figure out whether or not that makes you more or less scummy.

Also, uh, I care about being right

[QUOTE=MartinGG99;970708]I have a pet theory that if clowns is not-mafia then bakura probably is scum, simply because I think his spanish post (shown below) has some aspects which I definitely would have (as mafia) in the event of town-only or mostly-town wagons.

Might still be probable if clowns is mafia, but I think that's to a much lower degree.[/QUOTE]

Confession: this is the first time I've read this translated.

Why do you think it's [I]less[/I] likely that bakura is scum if clowns is scum? I wouldn't rule this out as a scum-defending-scumbuddy post.

(I personally think it's equally likely that bakura is scum, regardless of what clowns flipped. If you think that there's an agenda with this post, clowns' flip isn't relevant.)

Originally Posted by MartinGG99

I have a pet theory that if clowns is not-mafia then bakura probably is scum, simply because I think his spanish post (shown below) has some aspects which I definitely would have (as mafia) in the event of town-only or mostly-town wagons.

Might still be probable if clowns is mafia, but I think that's to a much lower degree.

Confession: this is the first time I've read this translated.

Why do you think it's less likely that bakura is scum if clowns is scum? I wouldn't rule this out as a scum-defending-scumbuddy post.

(I personally think it's equally likely that bakura is scum, regardless of what clowns flipped. If you think that there's an agenda with this post, clowns' flip isn't relevant.)

My life is alternating between metareads of "Mark is aggressive, ergo he's scum" and "Mark isn't aggressive, ergo he's scum" : P

My life is alternating between metareads of "Mark is aggressive, ergo he's scum" and "Mark isn't aggressive, ergo he's scum" : P

[QUOTE=10000JellyDoughnuts;970710]Frinckles is very suspicious with his voting power, and if it were between me and him... obviously him.

Oliverz is a tough read, I do not see anything that pings him as scum in my opinion. Let me go find your post about your question, I'll be happy to answer.


I don't know what you mean there.


Yea sure. This sort of behavior reminds me of his game as Cult Leader on HPM. He's usually more aggressive than this, and I think he's wanting to slip under the radar.[/QUOTE]
Honestly I vastly prefer it when people don't even try to metaread me

Originally Posted by 10000JellyDoughnuts

Frinckles is very suspicious with his voting power, and if it were between me and him... obviously him.

Oliverz is a tough read, I do not see anything that pings him as scum in my opinion. Let me go find your post about your question, I'll be happy to answer.


I don't know what you mean there.


Yea sure. This sort of behavior reminds me of his game as Cult Leader on HPM. He's usually more aggressive than this, and I think he's wanting to slip under the radar.

Honestly I vastly prefer it when people don't even try to metaread me

[QUOTE=jmw;970702]Marshmallow Marshall
Ashoka Tano
Mreevee

MartinGG99
Bakura1

Aporia

ewianking
Drizzt

oliverz144
Frinckles

TheClowns
10000JellyDoughnuts

I think I'm somewhere at here right now. If anyone's open for a dialogue I'd love to discuss reads otherwise I'll leave this in the background for a bit while I resolve something that came up.[/QUOTE]

Ewian is in the PoE IMO; the ratio of contribution:content is low and were evasive when I observed that their read and vote on Jelly was poorly reasoned. Maybe they didn't feel they were super important posts, but I would expect t!ewian to engage particularly since he JUST voted Jelly. I don't see s!ewian being mutually exclusive with s!jelly either.

Originally Posted by jmw

Marshmallow Marshall
Ashoka Tano
Mreevee

MartinGG99
Bakura1

Aporia

ewianking
Drizzt

oliverz144
Frinckles

TheClowns
10000JellyDoughnuts

I think I'm somewhere at here right now. If anyone's open for a dialogue I'd love to discuss reads otherwise I'll leave this in the background for a bit while I resolve something that came up.

Ewian is in the PoE IMO; the ratio of contribution:content is low and were evasive when I observed that their read and vote on Jelly was poorly reasoned. Maybe they didn't feel they were super important posts, but I would expect t!ewian to engage particularly since he JUST voted Jelly. I don't see s!ewian being mutually exclusive with s!jelly either.

[QUOTE=Frinckles;970688]*tinfoil hat*

what if jelly and clowns are both scum[/QUOTE]

I don't think this is a remotely tinfoil thought.

Originally Posted by Frinckles

*tinfoil hat*

what if jelly and clowns are both scum

I don't think this is a remotely tinfoil thought.

In terms of "who do I have substantive reasoning for scumreads", it's Jelly > clowns > ewian. There's some stuff with Frinckles that pinged me wrong but I can't specifically articulate it rn. I [I]also[/I] don't really want to lynch Jelly if she's not around. I'll try to cast a vote in an hour or so.

In terms of "who do I have substantive reasoning for scumreads", it's Jelly > clowns > ewian. There's some stuff with Frinckles that pinged me wrong but I can't specifically articulate it rn. I also don't really want to lynch Jelly if she's not around. I'll try to cast a vote in an hour or so.

[QUOTE=Mreevee;970674]This is the post that made me sr jelly. It just seems extremely out of place and inconsistent[/QUOTE]

I've seen this argument a couple times and I don't actually like the framing; it IS within place given that I kinda walked out of the room EoD1 with the wrong vote. The issue is that her post is completely devoid of reasoning that clarifies this is why she voted me (unlike, say, jmw)

Originally Posted by Mreevee

This is the post that made me sr jelly. It just seems extremely out of place and inconsistent

I've seen this argument a couple times and I don't actually like the framing; it IS within place given that I kinda walked out of the room EoD1 with the wrong vote. The issue is that her post is completely devoid of reasoning that clarifies this is why she voted me (unlike, say, jmw)

[QUOTE=Frinckles;970676]DW mechanic speculating isn't weird. It was how he was doing it that made me reconsider how I read his slot.

The n0 thing was a big one.
The multi faction thing was another one.
And there was a third one I forgot.

If you're saying: Jelly must be scum because meta-wise DW was playing normally and Town!Jelly would not have a reason to come to the conclusion that DW was suspicious -- I disagree. DW deserved that lynch because that shit seemed whack imo. But there are like two other slots who [I]would[/I] have been on that wagon if they'd been online. Mreevee and (I think?) MM.

Though at the same time, you say would have [I]not[/I] been on that wagon if you were online. Weird.

(Hey finally some decent vca)[/QUOTE]
I think there's a few ways to see it.

Context piece 1: Jelly [I]did[/I] specifically cite the N0 question as possible TMI, which is fair game IMO

Context piece 2: I ask this question, specifically in the context of the # of neutrals in the game:
[QUOTE=Aporia;970195][MENTION=46278]10000JellyDoughnuts[/MENTION] Do you have thoughts re: the fact that Deathworld's setup spec turns out to be probably fine?[/QUOTE]
And get this answer:
[QUOTE=10000JellyDoughnuts;970201]

Yea, I still get a bad feeling about it. I could very well be wrong, but the more I go back and read the posts, the more I convince myself there's tmi in the background. They seem very confident in set-up speculation, and while it might be true, I didn't see anyone else do it until I brought up the point that it seemed suspicious.

Seems like a way to look like contributing, and might have slipped tmi at the worst.[/QUOTE]

...and the answer just feels fake? IDK, "he was confident that the N0 action was town" is a fair argument but the above answer isn't a specific claim; it's just a vague toneread. IDK, I'm trying to run this logic through out loud and hopefully get jelly to respond and elaborate. I'm not wild about lynching them but they're in my PoE.

Originally Posted by Frinckles

DW mechanic speculating isn't weird. It was how he was doing it that made me reconsider how I read his slot.

The n0 thing was a big one.
The multi faction thing was another one.
And there was a third one I forgot.

If you're saying: Jelly must be scum because meta-wise DW was playing normally and Town!Jelly would not have a reason to come to the conclusion that DW was suspicious -- I disagree. DW deserved that lynch because that shit seemed whack imo. But there are like two other slots who would have been on that wagon if they'd been online. Mreevee and (I think?) MM.

Though at the same time, you say would have not been on that wagon if you were online. Weird.

(Hey finally some decent vca)

I think there's a few ways to see it.

Context piece 1: Jelly did specifically cite the N0 question as possible TMI, which is fair game IMO

Context piece 2: I ask this question, specifically in the context of the # of neutrals in the game:

Originally Posted by Aporia

@10000JellyDoughnuts Do you have thoughts re: the fact that Deathworld's setup spec turns out to be probably fine?

And get this answer:

Originally Posted by 10000JellyDoughnuts

Yea, I still get a bad feeling about it. I could very well be wrong, but the more I go back and read the posts, the more I convince myself there's tmi in the background. They seem very confident in set-up speculation, and while it might be true, I didn't see anyone else do it until I brought up the point that it seemed suspicious.

Seems like a way to look like contributing, and might have slipped tmi at the worst.

...and the answer just feels fake? IDK, "he was confident that the N0 action was town" is a fair argument but the above answer isn't a specific claim; it's just a vague toneread. IDK, I'm trying to run this logic through out loud and hopefully get jelly to respond and elaborate. I'm not wild about lynching them but they're in my PoE.

[QUOTE=ewianking;970665]I don’t see how that’s defensive…[/QUOTE]

You bringing up the fact that you're lynchbait implies that you think my argument is unfair/unfairly targeted.

Originally Posted by ewianking

I don’t see how that’s defensive…

You bringing up the fact that you're lynchbait implies that you think my argument is unfair/unfairly targeted.

[QUOTE=Frinckles;970660]Do you want me to quote the posts from DW or summarily go over what I felt seemed like TMI? I didn't explicitly tell Jelly I agreed with them or anything. I don't even think Jelly was online for EOD1.[/QUOTE]

When I asked SC2 people about it, the vibe I got from the room was "this is not unusual/TMI levels of neutral." What I'm interested in is whether or not there were other reasons, still, that a townie would think there's TMI. The "bad" post for reference:
[QUOTE=10000JellyDoughnuts;970201]

Yea, I still get a bad feeling about it. I could very well be wrong, but the more I go back and read the posts, the more I convince myself there's tmi in the background. They seem very confident in set-up speculation, and while it might be true, I didn't see anyone else do it until I brought up the point that it seemed suspicious.

Seems like a way to look like contributing, and might have slipped tmi at the worst.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Frinckles

Do you want me to quote the posts from DW or summarily go over what I felt seemed like TMI? I didn't explicitly tell Jelly I agreed with them or anything. I don't even think Jelly was online for EOD1.

When I asked SC2 people about it, the vibe I got from the room was "this is not unusual/TMI levels of neutral." What I'm interested in is whether or not there were other reasons, still, that a townie would think there's TMI. The "bad" post for reference:

Originally Posted by 10000JellyDoughnuts

Yea, I still get a bad feeling about it. I could very well be wrong, but the more I go back and read the posts, the more I convince myself there's tmi in the background. They seem very confident in set-up speculation, and while it might be true, I didn't see anyone else do it until I brought up the point that it seemed suspicious.

Seems like a way to look like contributing, and might have slipped tmi at the worst.

[QUOTE=Frinckles;970659]It's probably the large amount of buddying this game that's bothering you.[/QUOTE]

It's just such a weird response! It's a reply to the least significant part of my post, and there really isn't much reason to bring up Bakura. It's replying to "you are doing a poor meta read of a lynchbait slot" with "but bakura and I are also lynchbait!" Surprisingly, overly defensive.

Originally Posted by Frinckles

It's probably the large amount of buddying this game that's bothering you.

It's just such a weird response! It's a reply to the least significant part of my post, and there really isn't much reason to bring up Bakura. It's replying to "you are doing a poor meta read of a lynchbait slot" with "but bakura and I are also lynchbait!" Surprisingly, overly defensive.

[QUOTE=Frinckles;970384]I was thinking

1. I'm not voting with my FOS (ewian)
2. There was no reason to really have been on Clowns, aside from your meta which -- no offense bone bro, I know nothing of.
3. We had better high information lynches available (yes, DW was one of them but nobody gave a shit about mreevee or ewian)
4. I went back and read what jelly meant by tmi from DW and agreed it did seem like tmi.
5. Why the hell not? You don't know if clowns is scum. Your entire thing was based off some meta voting with my FOS. same goes for Martin.
6. Why the hell not?

Bottom line is if clowns is town here, either ewian is lazy scum or you/Martin are smooth criminals.[/QUOTE]

[MENTION=34329]Frinckles[/MENTION] can you elaborate more on why you think it did look like DW had TMI? I don't see anything about this in your ISO.

Originally Posted by Frinckles

I was thinking

1. I'm not voting with my FOS (ewian)
2. There was no reason to really have been on Clowns, aside from your meta which -- no offense bone bro, I know nothing of.
3. We had better high information lynches available (yes, DW was one of them but nobody gave a shit about mreevee or ewian)
4. I went back and read what jelly meant by tmi from DW and agreed it did seem like tmi.
5. Why the hell not? You don't know if clowns is scum. Your entire thing was based off some meta voting with my FOS. same goes for Martin.
6. Why the hell not?

Bottom line is if clowns is town here, either ewian is lazy scum or you/Martin are smooth criminals.

@Frinckles can you elaborate more on why you think it did look like DW had TMI? I don't see anything about this in your ISO.

Sorry for the multi-post, last one before I take a break

[QUOTE=ewianking;970638]My usually thoughts with Oliver are: can have good takes
But never explains them so I don’t really know wth he is doing
Also because I can never read him right[/QUOTE]
Part right, part wrong; oliver's extremely smart but just explains stuff in a ludicrously complicated way you have to engage a fair bit to read him. This makes tone reading him hard.

Sorry for the multi-post, last one before I take a break

Originally Posted by ewianking

My usually thoughts with Oliver are: can have good takes
But never explains them so I don’t really know wth he is doing
Also because I can never read him right

Part right, part wrong; oliver's extremely smart but just explains stuff in a ludicrously complicated way you have to engage a fair bit to read him. This makes tone reading him hard.

[QUOTE=oliverz144;970635]Hmm. Dreaming god is a hypixel special[/QUOTE]

Yeah and I'm sick of that role, ngl

Originally Posted by oliverz144

Hmm. Dreaming god is a hypixel special

Yeah and I'm sick of that role, ngl

Like there's part of me that wants to give Ewian a pass for voting Jelly given the circumstances, but they clearly were doing it on their own and not following a herd, so I think they deserve stricter scrutiny for it

Like there's part of me that wants to give Ewian a pass for voting Jelly given the circumstances, but they clearly were doing it on their own and not following a herd, so I think they deserve stricter scrutiny for it

[QUOTE=ewianking;970636]Me and bakura are always lynchbaits tho .-.[/QUOTE]

I really hate how evasive this response is to what I consider a serious point?

Originally Posted by ewianking

Me and bakura are always lynchbaits tho .-.

I really hate how evasive this response is to what I consider a serious point?

[QUOTE=TheClowns;970580]Wtf was that just now? Why did it very nearly turn onto Jelly, aka someone who the only topic of conversation today has been about our chat, not their alignment. Not why they’re scummy. In fact, I didn’t see any reasons as to why that helly wagon almost formed. It was definitely scum motivated imo.

Also yes I know my other head was on it, but let it be known that I don’t agree with it.[/QUOTE]
Eh, I went back and this is the only argument against Jelly that reads like bad-faith to me:
[QUOTE=ewianking;970517]I could see mark being scum this game , but ehh my vibes don’t really tingle in that general

Jelly seems a bit well confident and imo it doesn’t send off right to me tho I doubt anyones going to vote with me on this[/QUOTE]

like yeeeeeaahh Jelly is often [I]notl[/I] confident, but I don't think it's super AI and most attempts to metaread her end in spectacular failure

Most of the other votes on Jelly are basically a "she's in my PoE and we gotta choose someone"

The "I doubt anyone's going to vote with me" is a bit lol considering he's voting our famous hpm lynchbait

Originally Posted by TheClowns

Wtf was that just now? Why did it very nearly turn onto Jelly, aka someone who the only topic of conversation today has been about our chat, not their alignment. Not why they’re scummy. In fact, I didn’t see any reasons as to why that helly wagon almost formed. It was definitely scum motivated imo.

Also yes I know my other head was on it, but let it be known that I don’t agree with it.

Eh, I went back and this is the only argument against Jelly that reads like bad-faith to me:

Originally Posted by ewianking

I could see mark being scum this game , but ehh my vibes don’t really tingle in that general

Jelly seems a bit well confident and imo it doesn’t send off right to me tho I doubt anyones going to vote with me on this

like yeeeeeaahh Jelly is often notl confident, but I don't think it's super AI and most attempts to metaread her end in spectacular failure

Most of the other votes on Jelly are basically a "she's in my PoE and we gotta choose someone"

The "I doubt anyone's going to vote with me" is a bit lol considering he's voting our famous hpm lynchbait

Last post of the night - I buy a Jelly/Clown scumteam; them claiming to be in a chat with each other is a ~0 risk play as scum and gets clowns a few town brownie points.

Last post of the night - I buy a Jelly/Clown scumteam; them claiming to be in a chat with each other is a ~0 risk play as scum and gets clowns a few town brownie points.

Also hey, if you wanna lynch me, it's Aporia, not Aphoria. Let's try not to turn the next lynch into something like Jelly's wagon, shall we?

[QUOTE=10000JellyDoughnuts;970201]Hmm interesting vote. Can't say I disagree with half of their reads being null.

You can't have half the game null lmao.



Yea, I still get a bad feeling about it. I could very well be wrong, but the more I go back and read the posts, the more I convince myself there's tmi in the background. They seem very confident in set-up speculation, and while it might be true, I didn't see anyone else do it until I brought up the point that it seemed suspicious.

Seems like a way to look like contributing, and might have slipped tmi at the worst.[/QUOTE]
This thought didn't get posted D1, but - I really find this read scummy. I personally felt a bit stupid scumreading deathworld for that setup spec when it became clear there expectation around # of neuts was reasonable within sc2 games (and, at least tonereading jmw as well, they changed their mind pretty quick when they read the sc2 room, so to speak) so Jelly still seeing TMI here feels less reasonable and more like a fake scum read to me. I also disagree with the "seems like a way to look like contributing" bit since setup spec [I]is[/I] a reasonable form of contribution and I don't see evidence that the analysis was faked. Not [I]super[/I] useful, but within reasonable bounds for RVS.

Also hey, if you wanna lynch me, it's Aporia, not Aphoria. Let's try not to turn the next lynch into something like Jelly's wagon, shall we?

Originally Posted by 10000JellyDoughnuts

Hmm interesting vote. Can't say I disagree with half of their reads being null.

You can't have half the game null lmao.



Yea, I still get a bad feeling about it. I could very well be wrong, but the more I go back and read the posts, the more I convince myself there's tmi in the background. They seem very confident in set-up speculation, and while it might be true, I didn't see anyone else do it until I brought up the point that it seemed suspicious.

Seems like a way to look like contributing, and might have slipped tmi at the worst.

This thought didn't get posted D1, but - I really find this read scummy. I personally felt a bit stupid scumreading deathworld for that setup spec when it became clear there expectation around # of neuts was reasonable within sc2 games (and, at least tonereading jmw as well, they changed their mind pretty quick when they read the sc2 room, so to speak) so Jelly still seeing TMI here feels less reasonable and more like a fake scum read to me. I also disagree with the "seems like a way to look like contributing" bit since setup spec is a reasonable form of contribution and I don't see evidence that the analysis was faked. Not super useful, but within reasonable bounds for RVS.

Reading up. Replying to important stuff first.
[QUOTE=jmw;970377][vote]Aporia[/vote]

[MENTION=46271]Aporia[/MENTION] when you get a chance I'd like to hear what you were thinking around EoD and what you think now that DW has flipped.[/QUOTE]

The honest answer is that I was going to switch to clowns, but a housing public hearing came up that took precedence and forgot to vote : P


[QUOTE=10000JellyDoughnuts;970320]I was placed into a chat with clowns. They claimed to be responsible for it. The chat remains open

Exactly. I think we got a liar here, suspicious why Clowns didn't CC, but you know...

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I'm hesitant to believe there would be two chats.

Yea, super busy, but I'llshare what I said to Clowns.

That's fine. I just wanted the other one to discuss. Aswell as how you feel about Ashoka


No. Let's avoid clowns for right now.

Top Town is Clowns and jmw. Aphoria is top scum to me.

[Vote]Aphoria[/Vote][/QUOTE]

Do you want to talk more about this vote?

Reading up. Replying to important stuff first.

Originally Posted by jmw

-vote Aporia

@Aporia when you get a chance I'd like to hear what you were thinking around EoD and what you think now that DW has flipped.

The honest answer is that I was going to switch to clowns, but a housing public hearing came up that took precedence and forgot to vote : P

Originally Posted by 10000JellyDoughnuts

I was placed into a chat with clowns. They claimed to be responsible for it. The chat remains open

Exactly. I think we got a liar here, suspicious why Clowns didn't CC, but you know...

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I'm hesitant to believe there would be two chats.

Yea, super busy, but I'llshare what I said to Clowns.

That's fine. I just wanted the other one to discuss. Aswell as how you feel about Ashoka


No. Let's avoid clowns for right now.

Top Town is Clowns and jmw. Aphoria is top scum to me.

-vote Aphoria

Do you want to talk more about this vote?

[QUOTE=jmw;970203]Reads list from clowns is... not great, first impression was a bit of IIoA and super hedgey but I don't wanna be mean since this slot had like 0 thread presence and also CJ's my boy

anyone else have thoughts because I struggle to view it from a "Clowns is town and hasn't had time to read" PoV

how charitable should/shouldn't I be here[/QUOTE]

I would scumread CJ for having zero presence, and scumread anyone for that list.

Originally Posted by jmw

Reads list from clowns is... not great, first impression was a bit of IIoA and super hedgey but I don't wanna be mean since this slot had like 0 thread presence and also CJ's my boy

anyone else have thoughts because I struggle to view it from a "Clowns is town and hasn't had time to read" PoV

how charitable should/shouldn't I be here

I would scumread CJ for having zero presence, and scumread anyone for that list.

I don't see anything in Jelly's posts that indicate she's >rand scum. I'm more leaning towards the position that scumreading deathworld for setup spec is wrong now though.

I don't see anything in Jelly's posts that indicate she's >rand scum. I'm more leaning towards the position that scumreading deathworld for setup spec is wrong now though.

[QUOTE=TheClowns;970192]Okay I read a lot of it but for fear of not getting my reads down and getting lynched for it I will post what I have so far

Ewian-Null, really cant ever read this slot

Aporia-Null just the pages Ive seen so far dont have much contribution from this slot

Mr. Eevee- This slot started the game with two rvs which I'm not sure I like but I'm not the biggest fan of rvs anyway so going with this sot just being an overall troll

Marshmallow- Seems confident and is giving off a slight towny feel the way they are trying to help stimulate the discussion with asking more questions or so what ive seen so far feels like it

Bakura- A troll and therefore I have no idea cause all this slot does is fluff post so maybe thats a slight scum read

Deathworlds- Seems to skip from one topic to the next and fluff post. But also did some math or something about the game that I didnt quite read all of? -Null cant really follow this slot

Oliver- I cannot remember what post of yours made me feel like you were a light town. I will go back and try and see if I can find it.

Drizzt- Fluff and troll posting with Bakura. So I will call you Bakrua 2 the troll

Jmw- started this game off with an rvs and looks like this slot is trying to get others who might be lurking engaged in discussions. Light town read for now

Taunt- Their first reaction to the hypixelians rvs system is exactly how I react so I'm giving this slot a townish read

Jelly- Null havent seen too much to decide

Frinkles- Gives the vibe of a fluff posting troll

Martin- Seems like a troll but also seems like they are trying to engage in discussion still Null

AT- Null, havent seen too much from this slot either

Honk Honk[/QUOTE]

There's very little of substance here and some reads (deathworld, my read, MM, eevee, frinkles) feel pretty disconnected with how I view things. Yes, even my own read.

Originally Posted by TheClowns

Okay I read a lot of it but for fear of not getting my reads down and getting lynched for it I will post what I have so far

Ewian-Null, really cant ever read this slot

Aporia-Null just the pages Ive seen so far dont have much contribution from this slot

Mr. Eevee- This slot started the game with two rvs which I'm not sure I like but I'm not the biggest fan of rvs anyway so going with this sot just being an overall troll

Marshmallow- Seems confident and is giving off a slight towny feel the way they are trying to help stimulate the discussion with asking more questions or so what ive seen so far feels like it

Bakura- A troll and therefore I have no idea cause all this slot does is fluff post so maybe thats a slight scum read

Deathworlds- Seems to skip from one topic to the next and fluff post. But also did some math or something about the game that I didnt quite read all of? -Null cant really follow this slot

Oliver- I cannot remember what post of yours made me feel like you were a light town. I will go back and try and see if I can find it.

Drizzt- Fluff and troll posting with Bakura. So I will call you Bakrua 2 the troll

Jmw- started this game off with an rvs and looks like this slot is trying to get others who might be lurking engaged in discussions. Light town read for now

Taunt- Their first reaction to the hypixelians rvs system is exactly how I react so I'm giving this slot a townish read

Jelly- Null havent seen too much to decide

Frinkles- Gives the vibe of a fluff posting troll

Martin- Seems like a troll but also seems like they are trying to engage in discussion still Null

AT- Null, havent seen too much from this slot either

Honk Honk

There's very little of substance here and some reads (deathworld, my read, MM, eevee, frinkles) feel pretty disconnected with how I view things. Yes, even my own read.

[MENTION=46278]10000JellyDoughnuts[/MENTION] Do you have thoughts re: the fact that Deathworld's setup spec turns out to be probably fine?

@10000JellyDoughnuts Do you have thoughts re: the fact that Deathworld's setup spec turns out to be probably fine?

[QUOTE=jmw;970167]lol

does that change anything for you regarding p#[URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50446-S-FM-345-Hypixel-SC2Mafia-Cross-Community-Game?p=970134&viewfull=1#post970134"]332[/URL]?[/QUOTE]

Out of the four items (setup spec, voting bakura, lazy scum vibe, vote on me) the first and the last are discredited. The rest points to a weak scum read. I think both heads of the clown hydra doing absolutely nothing all day is probably lynch-worthy at this point.

Originally Posted by jmw

lol

does that change anything for you regarding p#332?

Out of the four items (setup spec, voting bakura, lazy scum vibe, vote on me) the first and the last are discredited. The rest points to a weak scum read. I think both heads of the clown hydra doing absolutely nothing all day is probably lynch-worthy at this point.

[QUOTE=Tauntshaman;970166]Their first 10~ posts are unrelated to the game, hence, lurking. Plus people (you?) voted him before they posted and he didn't respond to it at all.

Which would be what I would do if I were scum.[/QUOTE]

This argument feels like a stretch considering it could be applied to plenty of people at that particular gamestate.

Originally Posted by Tauntshaman

Their first 10~ posts are unrelated to the game, hence, lurking. Plus people (you?) voted him before they posted and he didn't respond to it at all.

Which would be what I would do if I were scum.

This argument feels like a stretch considering it could be applied to plenty of people at that particular gamestate.

I just realized I confused frinkles with deathworld re: the vote on me

[I]oops[/I]

I just realized I confused frinkles with deathworld re: the vote on me

oops

[QUOTE=deathworlds;970144]The standard sc2mafia mod game has 3 wolves, one true neutral, one evil neutral, and one killing neutral with the rest being town.
I'd expect the setup here to look somewhat like that.[/QUOTE]

SC2 people, is this right? I'm probably reading too much into this tbh

Originally Posted by deathworlds

The standard sc2mafia mod game has 3 wolves, one true neutral, one evil neutral, and one killing neutral with the rest being town.
I'd expect the setup here to look somewhat like that.

SC2 people, is this right? I'm probably reading too much into this tbh

[QUOTE=Marshmallow Marshall;970064]3 points:

- It has nothing to do with the "leads" part, for the reasons you stated yourself (especially considering he comes from the SC2 arcade)
- It's about his vote on Bakura for "lurking" when he very clearly hasn't done that at all: it feels like he's lost newbie scum trying to find something to accuse people on (it's not like he could genuinely think Bakura was lurking out of all people, especially considering how there literally were zero-posters at that point)
- It has the advantage of giving potential associative information on Deathworlds, which I very much like, because he's a bit of a question mark to me despite his posts (his setup analysis is NAI)[/QUOTE]

Actually I'm rereading this and I don't think this is an insane argument

:scratches head: I'm not actually sure what my reads are at this point

Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

3 points:

- It has nothing to do with the "leads" part, for the reasons you stated yourself (especially considering he comes from the SC2 arcade)
- It's about his vote on Bakura for "lurking" when he very clearly hasn't done that at all: it feels like he's lost newbie scum trying to find something to accuse people on (it's not like he could genuinely think Bakura was lurking out of all people, especially considering how there literally were zero-posters at that point)
- It has the advantage of giving potential associative information on Deathworlds, which I very much like, because he's a bit of a question mark to me despite his posts (his setup analysis is NAI)

Actually I'm rereading this and I don't think this is an insane argument

:scratches head: I'm not actually sure what my reads are at this point

[QUOTE=Bakura1;970131]I think I basically said everything I thought about the MM lynch, but I'm not interested in that anymore for obvious reasons.

Not sure who I wanna vote rn[/QUOTE]

It's actually not obvious to me what's motivating this change in heart. ELI5 please. Please pretend I'm very dense.

Originally Posted by Bakura1

I think I basically said everything I thought about the MM lynch, but I'm not interested in that anymore for obvious reasons.

Not sure who I wanna vote rn

It's actually not obvious to me what's motivating this change in heart. ELI5 please. Please pretend I'm very dense.

[QUOTE=jmw;970107][MENTION=46271]Aporia[/MENTION] if you're here where do you want to vote today? I'm reading back right now but cannot recall your stances on scum off the top of my head[/QUOTE]

My vote's currently on deathworld. Just a bunch of small stuff (overrating number of neuts in setup spec, voting bakura, lazy scum vibe). Also this thing:
[QUOTE=Frinckles;970050]Nah I'm talking about how Aporia didn't respond to it at all but 4-5 others did.

Based off what I see Apor seems like the player to know it was rvs and didn't care, I also don't think scum!apor needs teammates to defend them. Just a disproportionate response.[/QUOTE]

... was also a weird nothingburger to be fixated on for most of the game? Or at least, I don't really understand the logic behind their co So they're the one slot that I have a 'real' read as scum.

Re: other possible lynches - I found Martin's argument re: MM compelling but I don't think there's enough to lynch the slot yet. Bakura is lean town for me for reasons explained earlier. I don't have a problem with anything Taunt's said. So apart from deathworld, I don't see another viable wagon at this point.

Originally Posted by jmw

@Aporia if you're here where do you want to vote today? I'm reading back right now but cannot recall your stances on scum off the top of my head

My vote's currently on deathworld. Just a bunch of small stuff (overrating number of neuts in setup spec, voting bakura, lazy scum vibe). Also this thing:

Originally Posted by Frinckles

Nah I'm talking about how Aporia didn't respond to it at all but 4-5 others did.

Based off what I see Apor seems like the player to know it was rvs and didn't care, I also don't think scum!apor needs teammates to defend them. Just a disproportionate response.

... was also a weird nothingburger to be fixated on for most of the game? Or at least, I don't really understand the logic behind their co So they're the one slot that I have a 'real' read as scum.

Re: other possible lynches - I found Martin's argument re: MM compelling but I don't think there's enough to lynch the slot yet. Bakura is lean town for me for reasons explained earlier. I don't have a problem with anything Taunt's said. So apart from deathworld, I don't see another viable wagon at this point.

[QUOTE=Bakura1;970066]Why though

I'm personally liking the case on MM. I haven't seen anyone particularly contest it, but nobody else seems to be taking a stand with him either, which seems odd. In fact, nobody's really mentioned it at all. Imo scum have more incentive to just sit back at this stage of the game. I doubt scum puts this much time to compile previous games too. So rn I'd say my only particularly solid reads are T!Martin and S!MM

[vote]MarshmallowMarshall[/vote]

Hm
Idk why but my tone feels off and I can't put my finger on it
I guess I just usually have more pizazz
I should fix that soon

btw I always sign off at about 7:50 pm est


True, but I feel like I've been pretty good with that lately. I don't think I've done so in any recent games.
And last game I was just straight-up ignored.
Though I think I do need to improve on my part too. I've realized since last game that it is a give-and-take relationship. I should have been more open to a Crystal lynch, and I also realize in hindsight that a large part of me saw T!Me in his D1. But I forgot that T!Me = S!Everyone else, which makes me a little depressed, but such is life I guess.

Whew, that felt good to finally get out.[/QUOTE]
Can you talk more specifically about why you like a MM lynch?
[QUOTE=MartinGG99;970106]Is there any HPM player vouching for ewian?

His reads list thing looks quite confused and doesn't really to commit to much.

I'm also not experienced at reading (seemingly) lost players.[/QUOTE]
My read on this slot is "meh". You need a couple of days' content to read them accurately unless there are some red flags (and there are currently none.)

Originally Posted by Bakura1

Why though

I'm personally liking the case on MM. I haven't seen anyone particularly contest it, but nobody else seems to be taking a stand with him either, which seems odd. In fact, nobody's really mentioned it at all. Imo scum have more incentive to just sit back at this stage of the game. I doubt scum puts this much time to compile previous games too. So rn I'd say my only particularly solid reads are T!Martin and S!MM

-vote MarshmallowMarshall

Hm
Idk why but my tone feels off and I can't put my finger on it
I guess I just usually have more pizazz
I should fix that soon

btw I always sign off at about 7:50 pm est


True, but I feel like I've been pretty good with that lately. I don't think I've done so in any recent games.
And last game I was just straight-up ignored.
Though I think I do need to improve on my part too. I've realized since last game that it is a give-and-take relationship. I should have been more open to a Crystal lynch, and I also realize in hindsight that a large part of me saw T!Me in his D1. But I forgot that T!Me = S!Everyone else, which makes me a little depressed, but such is life I guess.

Whew, that felt good to finally get out.

Can you talk more specifically about why you like a MM lynch?

Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Is there any HPM player vouching for ewian?

His reads list thing looks quite confused and doesn't really to commit to much.

I'm also not experienced at reading (seemingly) lost players.

My read on this slot is "meh". You need a couple of days' content to read them accurately unless there are some red flags (and there are currently none.)

[QUOTE=deathworlds;970047]I do this with every single setup I play in, it's NAI, I just like to try and see if I can figure out the setup before everyone else does, makes me feel smart[/QUOTE]

I'm not criticizing actually doing setup spec; that's fine by me. I think your conclusions are off relative to what I would expect of a game of this size. I wouldn't expect 2-4 neutrals without having extra non-town info.

Originally Posted by deathworlds

I do this with every single setup I play in, it's NAI, I just like to try and see if I can figure out the setup before everyone else does, makes me feel smart

I'm not criticizing actually doing setup spec; that's fine by me. I think your conclusions are off relative to what I would expect of a game of this size. I wouldn't expect 2-4 neutrals without having extra non-town info.

[QUOTE=MartinGG99;970010]There's this thing, in past games, where MM has a distinctive look about him where he emphasizes certain points while still being himself in sometimes silly ways. Here's a few examples I can pull from his town games:

(these are from the archives where you can't quote to reply - links will be shared next to them to show where I got them)


[url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49469-S-FM-336-(Ladder)-Politico-II?p=950454&viewfull=1#post950454[/url]


[url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49469-S-FM-336-(Ladder)-Politico-II?p=950455#post950455[/url]


[url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49899-S-FM-340-Election-Day-2-0?p=964539&viewfull=1#post964539[/url]

[hr][/hr]
[hr][/hr]
Compare these, which all have happened on a d1 in various games iirc, to what MM has posted so far:









The posts here feel like they're more there for silly reasons or just personality quirks rather than anything else. There aren't really any clear points to them, but it feels like MM is trying to express how he normally is. That's fine, as d1s can be off and silly and be all RVS but it seems like he is in this odd spot of trying to solve but not actually solve. Like, seriously, [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50446-S-FM-345-Hypixel-SC2Mafia-Cross-Community-Game?p=969924#post969924"]the majority of this post[/URL] (which is too large to quote) is just laughter and smiles but has a side comment about Bakura (again, for like the 6th or whatever time by now).

Later, this is his response to me asking how he plans to solve (and I specifically referred to the space invades, implying people such as Bakura):



It's just....vague? Like I feel like there is hardly any passion or silliness in it. It's off, especially when I don't think he has made clear points nor really tried to emphasize some points in his usual style so far. Especially not about Bakura, and if MM is referring to Bakura's response to him about his alignment, just about anyone can see the (very) reasonable doubt to be given just because it was the rvs stage. So I don't get what MM is referring to here specifically unless he's hoping his expressive personality will fool people into thinking he is town and that there's nothing wrong with him.

I'm not sure if you all can see what I see, but I feel like the posts MM have made so far are different than ones in his past town games.[/QUOTE]
This is a very cogent argument. Other SC2 people can say how fair the meta read is (for all I know it could be cherry-picked, heh) but this is pretty well-evidenced and logical argument given the stage of the game. Town points for this slot.
[QUOTE=Frinckles;970033]Im not sure why you insist it couldnt have been but honestly I just wanted to hear from Jelly and get more from that slot. I think may have been doing the same thing with DW because the TMI implication seems weird to me.



Lack of engagement and tone. Some other stuff too.[/QUOTE]
Can you elaborate on this "other stuff"?
[QUOTE=Aporia;970043]Christ I give you a light town lead then I see this post

[vote]deathworlds[/vote][/QUOTE]

Elaboration: on hpm Bakura is [I]very[/I] lynchbait-y. I don't really see a good reason for someone else to vote him either. My earlier read on this slot was "nice to see they're not faking reads" but their most recent most is a bit too much "coasting scum".

Originally Posted by MartinGG99

There's this thing, in past games, where MM has a distinctive look about him where he emphasizes certain points while still being himself in sometimes silly ways. Here's a few examples I can pull from his town games:

(these are from the archives where you can't quote to reply - links will be shared next to them to show where I got them)


https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post950454


https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...455#post950455


https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post964539

---

---

Compare these, which all have happened on a d1 in various games iirc, to what MM has posted so far:









The posts here feel like they're more there for silly reasons or just personality quirks rather than anything else. There aren't really any clear points to them, but it feels like MM is trying to express how he normally is. That's fine, as d1s can be off and silly and be all RVS but it seems like he is in this odd spot of trying to solve but not actually solve. Like, seriously, the majority of this post (which is too large to quote) is just laughter and smiles but has a side comment about Bakura (again, for like the 6th or whatever time by now).

Later, this is his response to me asking how he plans to solve (and I specifically referred to the space invades, implying people such as Bakura):



It's just....vague? Like I feel like there is hardly any passion or silliness in it. It's off, especially when I don't think he has made clear points nor really tried to emphasize some points in his usual style so far. Especially not about Bakura, and if MM is referring to Bakura's response to him about his alignment, just about anyone can see the (very) reasonable doubt to be given just because it was the rvs stage. So I don't get what MM is referring to here specifically unless he's hoping his expressive personality will fool people into thinking he is town and that there's nothing wrong with him.

I'm not sure if you all can see what I see, but I feel like the posts MM have made so far are different than ones in his past town games.

This is a very cogent argument. Other SC2 people can say how fair the meta read is (for all I know it could be cherry-picked, heh) but this is pretty well-evidenced and logical argument given the stage of the game. Town points for this slot.

Originally Posted by Frinckles

Im not sure why you insist it couldnt have been but honestly I just wanted to hear from Jelly and get more from that slot. I think may have been doing the same thing with DW because the TMI implication seems weird to me.



Lack of engagement and tone. Some other stuff too.

Can you elaborate on this "other stuff"?

Originally Posted by Aporia

Christ I give you a light town lead then I see this post

-vote deathworlds

Elaboration: on hpm Bakura is very lynchbait-y. I don't really see a good reason for someone else to vote him either. My earlier read on this slot was "nice to see they're not faking reads" but their most recent most is a bit too much "coasting scum".

[QUOTE=deathworlds;970039][VOTE]Bakura1[/VOTE]

I think I'm fine with this for now[/QUOTE]

Christ I give you a light town lead then I see this post

[vote]deathworlds[/vote]

Originally Posted by deathworlds

-vote Bakura1

I think I'm fine with this for now

Christ I give you a light town lead then I see this post

-vote deathworlds

[QUOTE=deathworlds;969916]Anywho time to do some setup analysis I guess, canny do a whole lot else right now with what we got.

We have fifteen players.

Scum cannot daychat.

2/10 on the bastard scale, so we're not seeing anything too wacky, I'd say expect roles taken directly from the mafiascum wiki, with minor adjustments to fit the flavor of either hypixel or sc2mafia setups.

At least one anti-town faction (scum)

Everyone is a TPR or have some button to press or has some sort of passive ability. (I actually didn't catch this until just now)


So what I'm currently expecting is a single scum faction (comprised of 3-4 individuals), with 1-2 true neutrals and 1-2 evil/killing neutrals. Alternatively we may exist in a universe with [I]two[/I] scum factions comprised of 2-3 players each, with fewer neutrals to go along with that.

I know setup discussion doesn't really help us decide who to lynch but it's worth keeping in mind. I for one, am particularly glad that we don't have to deal with day-chatting scum, which piloted by experienced players, cMost an run circles around us easily.[/QUOTE]
Most of this reasoning seems fine and sane, but IMO overrated the number of neutrals. I don't want to read too much into it because I'm not familiar with sc2 games, but on Hypixel I'd find this a bit weird speculation and question if there's TMI.

[QUOTE=deathworlds;969921]I'd be more confident if I had host meta on all four of the hosts, but I'm assuming that Gikkle and Lumi are the primary setup creators. I don't expect anything too wacky, but I'm thinking that almost everyone has a button to press at least once, but [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/22788-M-FM-Castle-Varen-the-most-balanced-game-on-site-ever?highlight=castle+varen"]standard balancing rules[/URL] seem to apply here, or at least mostly apply. Scum and town should have roughly the same mechanical power level, town's ability to prevent kills should match scum's ability to kill.

In hindsight, because town has more roles with abilities than scum does, then maybe even more town roles are "-" than I originally thought.[/QUOTE]
Re: mod meta - If Gikkle was heavily involved, you can probably expect a few "creative" twists throughout.

[QUOTE=ewianking;969930]I’ve been right 90% of the time on bakura it’s usually paranoia that just makes me change my mind[/QUOTE]
You'll forgive me for still being skeptical lol

People get pretty lazy reading him
[QUOTE=Bakura1;969990]
Thank you. This is what I've been asking for ages. Ever since I can remember, it's always just, "Bakura's meta town and I won't evaluate him further than D1." I don't want the "most obvious towny" award. My reads are in line and often accurate, just like last game. But literally nobody even approached me about my Kylo read and he ended up coasting through endgame.

[/QUOTE]
I mean tbf you often defend yourself with meta : P
[QUOTE=deathworlds;970000]That's what I'm feeling right now too. It's a bit awkward, I could be making some meta reads right now based off of the people from this site, but I'd be at a complete loss for the Hypixel players. Additionally this day has seemed particularly uneventful; by now we'd have a few competing trains going on and we'd get some lovely, lovely interactions between all the players that can be used to look for sussy interactions/lack of interactions. But no, we don't have any of that, and I can't [I]just[/I] read half of the players and discount the other half. Bah, later I'll just make a list of people who I think are pro-town vs anti-town based off of the fundamentals[/QUOTE]
I'm inclined to give deathworld and bakura a very light townread for being upfront about about the lack of game progression/reads at this state in the day. s!Bakura in particular would probably face more internal pressure to give some fake reads to fit their notion of what a "townie" player looks like.

Originally Posted by deathworlds

Anywho time to do some setup analysis I guess, canny do a whole lot else right now with what we got.

We have fifteen players.

Scum cannot daychat.

2/10 on the bastard scale, so we're not seeing anything too wacky, I'd say expect roles taken directly from the mafiascum wiki, with minor adjustments to fit the flavor of either hypixel or sc2mafia setups.

At least one anti-town faction (scum)

Everyone is a TPR or have some button to press or has some sort of passive ability. (I actually didn't catch this until just now)


So what I'm currently expecting is a single scum faction (comprised of 3-4 individuals), with 1-2 true neutrals and 1-2 evil/killing neutrals. Alternatively we may exist in a universe with two scum factions comprised of 2-3 players each, with fewer neutrals to go along with that.

I know setup discussion doesn't really help us decide who to lynch but it's worth keeping in mind. I for one, am particularly glad that we don't have to deal with day-chatting scum, which piloted by experienced players, cMost an run circles around us easily.

Most of this reasoning seems fine and sane, but IMO overrated the number of neutrals. I don't want to read too much into it because I'm not familiar with sc2 games, but on Hypixel I'd find this a bit weird speculation and question if there's TMI.

Originally Posted by deathworlds

I'd be more confident if I had host meta on all four of the hosts, but I'm assuming that Gikkle and Lumi are the primary setup creators. I don't expect anything too wacky, but I'm thinking that almost everyone has a button to press at least once, but standard balancing rules seem to apply here, or at least mostly apply. Scum and town should have roughly the same mechanical power level, town's ability to prevent kills should match scum's ability to kill.

In hindsight, because town has more roles with abilities than scum does, then maybe even more town roles are "-" than I originally thought.

Re: mod meta - If Gikkle was heavily involved, you can probably expect a few "creative" twists throughout.

Originally Posted by ewianking

I’ve been right 90% of the time on bakura it’s usually paranoia that just makes me change my mind

You'll forgive me for still being skeptical lol

People get pretty lazy reading him

Originally Posted by Bakura1

Thank you. This is what I've been asking for ages. Ever since I can remember, it's always just, "Bakura's meta town and I won't evaluate him further than D1." I don't want the "most obvious towny" award. My reads are in line and often accurate, just like last game. But literally nobody even approached me about my Kylo read and he ended up coasting through endgame.

I mean tbf you often defend yourself with meta : P

Originally Posted by deathworlds

That's what I'm feeling right now too. It's a bit awkward, I could be making some meta reads right now based off of the people from this site, but I'd be at a complete loss for the Hypixel players. Additionally this day has seemed particularly uneventful; by now we'd have a few competing trains going on and we'd get some lovely, lovely interactions between all the players that can be used to look for sussy interactions/lack of interactions. But no, we don't have any of that, and I can't just read half of the players and discount the other half. Bah, later I'll just make a list of people who I think are pro-town vs anti-town based off of the fundamentals

I'm inclined to give deathworld and bakura a very light townread for being upfront about about the lack of game progression/reads at this state in the day. s!Bakura in particular would probably face more internal pressure to give some fake reads to fit their notion of what a "townie" player looks like.

[QUOTE=TheClowns;969907]Rip not even for yours truly?[/QUOTE]

TBH there's a bunch of players, including you, that don't have a very recognizable meta to me beyond "plays the game reasonably competently and is fairly active." (This goes for both you and fishy) Maybe I'm just bad at psychoanalyzinghocuspocus stuff, but I'm skeptical in general when someone claims to be able to metaread most hpm people. There's a few exceptions, but.... eh.

Originally Posted by TheClowns

Rip not even for yours truly?

TBH there's a bunch of players, including you, that don't have a very recognizable meta to me beyond "plays the game reasonably competently and is fairly active." (This goes for both you and fishy) Maybe I'm just bad at psychoanalyzinghocuspocus stuff, but I'm skeptical in general when someone claims to be able to metaread most hpm people. There's a few exceptions, but.... eh.

[QUOTE=deathworlds;969855]Hey anyone from hypixel wanna tell me the meta of your fellow visitors? I promise I wont exploit this to make a deep read on you :D[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=deathworlds;969903]Oh, are you trying to discredit MrEevee?
Tisk tisk
[vote]TheClowns[/vote][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ewianking;969904]? Bakura hasn’t been lurking he’s been here in fact he’s quite in meta rn[/QUOTE]

I -

I guess? Can anyone confidently metaread Bakura? I wish more people would read him on his merits.

Originally Posted by deathworlds

Hey anyone from hypixel wanna tell me the meta of your fellow visitors? I promise I wont exploit this to make a deep read on you

Originally Posted by deathworlds

Oh, are you trying to discredit MrEevee?
Tisk tisk

-vote TheClowns

Originally Posted by ewianking

? Bakura hasn’t been lurking he’s been here in fact he’s quite in meta rn

I -

I guess? Can anyone confidently metaread Bakura? I wish more people would read him on his merits.

[QUOTE=deathworlds;969855]Hey anyone from hypixel wanna tell me the meta of your fellow visitors? I promise I wont exploit this to make a deep read on you :D[/QUOTE]
Bakura memes a lot. Jelly is competent but second-guesses herself a lot. JMW's pretty serious. Oliver is confusing as hell initially but has his brilliant moments. Can't really give a specific meta on the rest.
[QUOTE=deathworlds;969903]Oh, are you trying to discredit MrEevee?
Tisk tisk
[vote]TheClowns[/vote][/QUOTE]
This didn't read like a discrediting to me; it's just putting the naked reads within context.

Originally Posted by deathworlds

Hey anyone from hypixel wanna tell me the meta of your fellow visitors? I promise I wont exploit this to make a deep read on you

Bakura memes a lot. Jelly is competent but second-guesses herself a lot. JMW's pretty serious. Oliver is confusing as hell initially but has his brilliant moments. Can't really give a specific meta on the rest.

Originally Posted by deathworlds

Oh, are you trying to discredit MrEevee?
Tisk tisk

-vote TheClowns

This didn't read like a discrediting to me; it's just putting the naked reads within context.

Hello :)

Hello

Hi :)

Hi