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[QUOTE=Veliaire;948931]What is the protocol for adding people to reports? [/QUOTE]

Going back to your OG question, I don't think there's a fixed protocol, I believe it's really up to the reviewing staff whether they notice, and whether they choose to enforce.
Many of my replays have rolequitters and racists in them, who are not punished because my report is for other players and other offenses.
And I don't see an issue with that.
It's just not practical to go after everyone.

If you file a report directly, it will be acted on.

Not sure why Velly is raising such a ruckus about this lol.

It's only "selective punishment" if some people are given preferential punishment after being reported directly and are clearly guilty.

Originally Posted by Veliaire

What is the protocol for adding people to reports?

Going back to your OG question, I don't think there's a fixed protocol, I believe it's really up to the reviewing staff whether they notice, and whether they choose to enforce.
Many of my replays have rolequitters and racists in them, who are not punished because my report is for other players and other offenses.
And I don't see an issue with that.
It's just not practical to go after everyone.

If you file a report directly, it will be acted on.

Not sure why Velly is raising such a ruckus about this lol.

It's only "selective punishment" if some people are given preferential punishment after being reported directly and are clearly guilty.

[QUOTE=JagdPanther;948989]Because the mod that banned me stated "He is clearly bankhacking, and host a save with 2 minutes long night, prompting people to leave." The reason for the ban is bankhacking [B][U]and [/U][/B]2 minute night save. If 2 minute night save isn't bannable, why even mention it? I'm just trying to clear that up before I appeal.[/QUOTE]

I think in such situations you should ask yourself, does it even make a difference?

The primary concern here is the smurfing (permaban) and bank hacking (point ban).
Hosting a save with 2 mins long night causing people to leave COULD be considered griefing (WL / BL) if done with the intention to frustrate other players, but that's pretty difficult to prove.

If I were you, I would focus on the bigger issues, which is your smurfing and bank hacking.
What is the point of nitpicking over the griefing accusation? Even if you're not griefing, you'll still be permabanned for smurfing.
Whether or not it is an unfounded accusation, it has no bearing on the final outcome.

Please realise the position you are in.
You are a rule-breaker making an appeal to reduce / remove your punishment.

When you are begging for forgiveness, it is best to make the other party as receptive as possible, yes?
Being nitpicky instead of focusing on the key issue is counterproductive to your goal.

That's not to say that unfounded accusations should be allowed to slide.
I just think you should challenge that AFTER you clear the bigger issues.
Otherwise you're just wasting everybody's time.

Originally Posted by JagdPanther

Because the mod that banned me stated "He is clearly bankhacking, and host a save with 2 minutes long night, prompting people to leave." The reason for the ban is bankhacking and 2 minute night save. If 2 minute night save isn't bannable, why even mention it? I'm just trying to clear that up before I appeal.

I think in such situations you should ask yourself, does it even make a difference?

The primary concern here is the smurfing (permaban) and bank hacking (point ban).
Hosting a save with 2 mins long night causing people to leave COULD be considered griefing (WL / BL) if done with the intention to frustrate other players, but that's pretty difficult to prove.

If I were you, I would focus on the bigger issues, which is your smurfing and bank hacking.
What is the point of nitpicking over the griefing accusation? Even if you're not griefing, you'll still be permabanned for smurfing.
Whether or not it is an unfounded accusation, it has no bearing on the final outcome.

Please realise the position you are in.
You are a rule-breaker making an appeal to reduce / remove your punishment.

When you are begging for forgiveness, it is best to make the other party as receptive as possible, yes?
Being nitpicky instead of focusing on the key issue is counterproductive to your goal.

That's not to say that unfounded accusations should be allowed to slide.
I just think you should challenge that AFTER you clear the bigger issues.
Otherwise you're just wasting everybody's time.

This is such an unproductive discussion, along with the one on Discord.

[QUOTE=Veliaire;948957]This is not a personal attack against you, or even against the mod in question. I noticed what I saw to be unfair treatment and I am voicing my concerns. We all appreciate the work you unpaid volunteers do to keep this community going, but that doesn't mean that you are all infallible in every situation. What really prompted me to make this thread is when the mod in question admitted he disliked JagdPanther and then suggested to me that I should report people I dislike. That didn't sit right with me, and given my own personality I felt that I should speak up. Please don't take my criticism of one mod's actions as a critique of the SC2 Arcade staff as a whole.[/QUOTE]

As I understand it, you have 2 issues:
(1) WEWUZKANGZ's offense was not caught and punished
(2) Mr. Mostache's response to your concerns

[B](1) WEWUZKANGZ's Offense[/B]

The original report was about KuBrofKuSKoC's hacking.
In that replay, there was another player WEWUZKANGZ being racist.

In past reports, additional players have been added for punishment if their offense is noticed by the reviewing staff.
In this case, CheeseJuice was added for smurfing & bankhacking, but WEWUZKANGZ's racism was not caught and punished.

First, please understand the report is about hacking.
The reviewer's attention would be focused on KuBrofKuSKoC's hacking, not other players' offenses.

Second, as you say, the staff is not infallible.
They cannot be expected to catch all periphery offenses, especially if it's not the focus of the report.

You saw a concern with the staff's (lack of) verdict on WEWUZKANGZ, you were told to file a report, you did, it was reviewed and approved.
Due punishment will be meted out.

I don't see an issue here except for your unrealistic expectations of staff to catch and punish ALL offenses in ALL replays.
However, is it better for staff to turn a blind eye to periphery offenses that they DO notice? No.

[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td][B]Option[/B][/td]
[td][B]Periphery Offenses[/B][/td]
[td][B]Remarks[/B][/td]
[td][B]Evaluation[/B][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]#1[/td]
[td]Catch and punish ALL offenses in ALL replays[/td]
[td]Unrealistic, staff is not infallible[/td]
[td]Bad[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]#2[/td]
[td]Punish offenses when noticed[/td]
[td]Will not catch ALL periphery offenses, but action can be taken when necessary[/td]
[td]Good[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]#3[/td]
[td]Do not punish periphery offenses at all unless directly reported[/td]
[td]Cripples staff with bureaucracy[/td]
[td]Bad[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]


[B](2) Mr. Mostache's Response[/B]

You started the conversation on Discord by accusing Mr. Mostache of ignoring WEWUZKANG's obvious smurf and going after JagdPanther for having a 2 minute night sequence.

You and Watershark (JagdPanther) rile yourselves up for a bit based on your own assumptions of the situation.

Mr. Mostache tells you to report WEWUZKANGZ if he bothers you.
When you asked him why he didn't do anything about WEWUZKANGZ, he explains he only noticed JagdPanther in the replay.

He told you what to do if you wanted action to be taken against WEWUZKANGZ - File a report - which you did, which was approved and will result in a punishment.
He explained that he didn't add WEWUZKANG because he didn't notice him.

I'm not sure what else you're expecting from further discussion.

The only problems I see here are:
1. Your insinuation that Mr. M has a personal vendetta against JagdPanther
2. Your assumption that WEWUZKANG's smurf is as obvious to everyone else as it is to you
3. Your misdirection to JagdPanther's "2 minute night sequence" when the actual issue is smurfing and bank hacking
4. Your continued belligerence towards Mr. M after he explains that he didn't notice WEWUZKANGZ's racism


[QUOTE=Ryttun;948986]Jagd, why are you suddenly so interested in following the rules? You haven't seemed to care about them all this time, at least not in any of the games we played together. When someone asked you to follow the rules, you basically told them to fuck off, right? That's at least the evident attitude from your consistent bankhacking. But now all of a sudden you want to sit there and try to sharpshoot the mods and "appeal" over minutia when you know full well you deserve the ban. Just own it, man. This isn't a court of law, it's regular people trying to protect the integrity of a community-driven game. Integrity that you clearly don't care about.

Veliaire, you have a history of instigating unnecessary issues, at least with me. I wonder what your motivations truly are here? You have already been told to join the staff if you feel there are issues that need to be addressed, or make a specific, actionable report on the item. What's your end goal here?

You are both fortunate to have Mr Mostache protecting the game from people that would otherwise consistently ruin lobby after lobby while getting endless amounts of amusement from frustrating well-intentioned mafia players.
You know why I stopped being a mod almost instantly? Because I immediately understood all the grief these guys get from people who just want to sit behind their computers at home and get a laugh out of making them stumble, or are interested in trying to do some kind of "Gotcha!" moment. It's ridiculous, and you're only adding to the problem, Veliaire. The amount of effort mods have to put in to run a fair game is atrocious. And if you really, actually gave a shit about mafia itself, the community, or just trying to have fun in a 'party' game, you would recognize the pettiness of what you're trying to do here.

[...]

edit: also why is anyone pretending that Jagd is being banned for a 2min night save? this is what classic misdirection looks like. You were told you were being permabanned for ban evasion, amongst all the other issues. is your 2min night save annoying? absolutely. bannable? of course not. lets not kid ourselves here. that is not what is going on here and you know it, and it's been spelled out for you already.[/QUOTE]

This man's telling it like it is.

100% agreed on everything.

This is such an unproductive discussion, along with the one on Discord.

Originally Posted by Veliaire

This is not a personal attack against you, or even against the mod in question. I noticed what I saw to be unfair treatment and I am voicing my concerns. We all appreciate the work you unpaid volunteers do to keep this community going, but that doesn't mean that you are all infallible in every situation. What really prompted me to make this thread is when the mod in question admitted he disliked JagdPanther and then suggested to me that I should report people I dislike. That didn't sit right with me, and given my own personality I felt that I should speak up. Please don't take my criticism of one mod's actions as a critique of the SC2 Arcade staff as a whole.

As I understand it, you have 2 issues:
(1) WEWUZKANGZ's offense was not caught and punished
(2) Mr. Mostache's response to your concerns

(1) WEWUZKANGZ's Offense

The original report was about KuBrofKuSKoC's hacking.
In that replay, there was another player WEWUZKANGZ being racist.

In past reports, additional players have been added for punishment if their offense is noticed by the reviewing staff.
In this case, CheeseJuice was added for smurfing & bankhacking, but WEWUZKANGZ's racism was not caught and punished.

First, please understand the report is about hacking.
The reviewer's attention would be focused on KuBrofKuSKoC's hacking, not other players' offenses.

Second, as you say, the staff is not infallible.
They cannot be expected to catch all periphery offenses, especially if it's not the focus of the report.

You saw a concern with the staff's (lack of) verdict on WEWUZKANGZ, you were told to file a report, you did, it was reviewed and approved.
Due punishment will be meted out.

I don't see an issue here except for your unrealistic expectations of staff to catch and punish ALL offenses in ALL replays.
However, is it better for staff to turn a blind eye to periphery offenses that they DO notice? No.

Option	Periphery Offenses	Remarks	Evaluation
#1	Catch and punish ALL offenses in ALL replays	Unrealistic, staff is not infallible	Bad
#2	Punish offenses when noticed	Will not catch ALL periphery offenses, but action can be taken when necessary	Good
#3	Do not punish periphery offenses at all unless directly reported	Cripples staff with bureaucracy	Bad

(2) Mr. Mostache's Response

You started the conversation on Discord by accusing Mr. Mostache of ignoring WEWUZKANG's obvious smurf and going after JagdPanther for having a 2 minute night sequence.

You and Watershark (JagdPanther) rile yourselves up for a bit based on your own assumptions of the situation.

Mr. Mostache tells you to report WEWUZKANGZ if he bothers you.
When you asked him why he didn't do anything about WEWUZKANGZ, he explains he only noticed JagdPanther in the replay.

He told you what to do if you wanted action to be taken against WEWUZKANGZ - File a report - which you did, which was approved and will result in a punishment.
He explained that he didn't add WEWUZKANG because he didn't notice him.

I'm not sure what else you're expecting from further discussion.

The only problems I see here are:
1. Your insinuation that Mr. M has a personal vendetta against JagdPanther
2. Your assumption that WEWUZKANG's smurf is as obvious to everyone else as it is to you
3. Your misdirection to JagdPanther's "2 minute night sequence" when the actual issue is smurfing and bank hacking
4. Your continued belligerence towards Mr. M after he explains that he didn't notice WEWUZKANGZ's racism

Originally Posted by Ryttun

Jagd, why are you suddenly so interested in following the rules? You haven't seemed to care about them all this time, at least not in any of the games we played together. When someone asked you to follow the rules, you basically told them to fuck off, right? That's at least the evident attitude from your consistent bankhacking. But now all of a sudden you want to sit there and try to sharpshoot the mods and "appeal" over minutia when you know full well you deserve the ban. Just own it, man. This isn't a court of law, it's regular people trying to protect the integrity of a community-driven game. Integrity that you clearly don't care about.

Veliaire, you have a history of instigating unnecessary issues, at least with me. I wonder what your motivations truly are here? You have already been told to join the staff if you feel there are issues that need to be addressed, or make a specific, actionable report on the item. What's your end goal here?

You are both fortunate to have Mr Mostache protecting the game from people that would otherwise consistently ruin lobby after lobby while getting endless amounts of amusement from frustrating well-intentioned mafia players.
You know why I stopped being a mod almost instantly? Because I immediately understood all the grief these guys get from people who just want to sit behind their computers at home and get a laugh out of making them stumble, or are interested in trying to do some kind of "Gotcha!" moment. It's ridiculous, and you're only adding to the problem, Veliaire. The amount of effort mods have to put in to run a fair game is atrocious. And if you really, actually gave a shit about mafia itself, the community, or just trying to have fun in a 'party' game, you would recognize the pettiness of what you're trying to do here.

[...]

edit: also why is anyone pretending that Jagd is being banned for a 2min night save? this is what classic misdirection looks like. You were told you were being permabanned for ban evasion, amongst all the other issues. is your 2min night save annoying? absolutely. bannable? of course not. lets not kid ourselves here. that is not what is going on here and you know it, and it's been spelled out for you already.

This man's telling it like it is.

100% agreed on everything.