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    ►►Re: Super Basic Redemption◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I changed the setup to a 9 player makeing it a balanced setup and put the names rng with roles. That should fix it so it is not experimental anymore. It meats the 3M+1 rule.
    This solves all concerns I had about the setup. Approved (as a normal setup).

    And by the way, I don't know if you intended the old setup to be in a spoiler (since you're talking about opening a spoiler), but if you did, it isn't in one :P
  2. ►►Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostByte View Post
    I'm honestly not sure why you even weighed in at all. I don't think that was the right call. I think you should've steered clear of the entire situation and remained as a player because there's no way you could come out of this unbiased.
    The post you're quoting is purely about player-host discussion. As for the moderation part, I can understand your concerns; what I had to clarify myself about private exchanges was clarified, so I'll leave the rest for other staff to comment as they see fit. @deathworlds @AIVION

    And again @Mesk514 , if you believe to have been wrongly punished, make an appeal thread with evidence; if there was a mistake, it will be corrected.
  3. ►►Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias◄◄

    To clarify, none of the following actually has anything to do with the punishment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    "idk if the players should be made aware of this tho"
    I'll grant you this line alone may be ambiguous, but it wasn't alone. The line that comes right after removes any and all forms of ambiguity: "because it's definetly strange for them atm, and if Frinckles actually gets to have his vest, the SK will be very much confused". You cannot honestly think I'm advocating for you to confuse people without telling them why :P. Right after, you even say it isn't specified anywhere when the vest is used, to which I reply "it's... strongly implied, but sure :P your call as a host about how you manage that, was just suggesting", which also implies I was going against the non-reveal, but that you had discretion there (this part of the setup being already compromised by the error, it had to be adapted, and that's where host discretion applies).
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    ►►Re: Super Basic Redemption◄◄

    I'm aware of the additional names; my point is that if a mafia claims a fake name, he has 3/5 odds of landing on one that a townie actually has, putting his life at stake due to CCs. That makes it illogical for anyone but actual citizens to claim, making name claiming a relatively east path to confirmedness (and one confirmed town > one less person in the potential PR pool by far). I guess WIFOM plays into it, though (a ballsy scum might go for it), so it might not be too bad. As I put it, I was more asking for your thoughts on the matter than forcing you to do anything.
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    ►►Re: Post some music you like :)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by bakermir View Post
    操你
    lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Plotato View Post
    If you are gonna bring up Without the Communist Party, There Will Be No New China then at least bring up the modern updated diversity edition:

    But this isn't Without the Communist Party, there would be no new China!, this is No ze Communist Party, no ze new Chinuuuuuh.

    I don't know which one is best though...
  6. Forum:Signups

    Thread:S-FM 312: Eternal Conflict!

    Thread Author:AIVION

    Post Author:Marshmallow Marshall

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    ►►Re: S-FM 312: Eternal Conflict!◄◄

    If confirmations are not given at the end of the month and there are no additional signs, the signups will be archived in December. @Frinckles @Voss @MartinGG99 @Kenny @Renegade @Bahkieh @Dark Magician @Oberon
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    ►►Re: Super Basic Redemption◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I am ok with that. Just change the approved setup in approved setups to experimental. And I would suggest you Should review setups in the approved section and change all that you do not approve to experimental to advoid this in the future.

    This will help hosts to know what they can pick from to run.
    This really is an exceptional case (balance for such small setups is pretty touchy, too), but yeah, you do have a point.

    Balance concern: What prevents a citizen from claiming his name early, getting a near-confirmed status (since scum doing this would have 3/5 odds of getting counter-claimed, which would be pretty bad)?
    Thoughts? The rest seems good.
  8. ►►Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    SuperJack in daaaaah hooouse. Love you all<3
    This ought to be the cutest avatar on this site lol
  9. ►►Re: Marshmallow Marshall's inability to moderate without bias◄◄

    For more complete context:
    Spoiler : Screenshots of our entire conversation :



    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514
    Before he says, "oh well, Deathworlds made the post because it included other infractions," have some balls to do it yourself since your ridiculousness shouldn't be cast upon Deathworlds as well.
    I mean, that's what happened anyway lol. He wasn't in the game, but I was, so we try to avoid bias as much as possible.

    I'd also like to point out that I posted my thing trying to make peace with you on the 12th. What you were punished for (not flipping people) happened on the 17th. This obviously has nothing to do with the judgment (especially seeing how the judgment involved the entire FM staff for all cases, as every judgment does, so there wouldn't be a vendetta or anything like that). If a vendetta like what you seem to be suggesting was to happen, I'd expect the moderator to be severely reprimanded or straight up demoted; but here, there was no unilateral decision whatsoever, and everyone was asked for their thoughts and listened to so that we would come to an agreement.

    ~~

    Now, into the actual game matter, let's establish something: my death was an honest, human mistake, and this was not taken into account for the punishment (it wasn't in the judgment post either); the punishment is due to the switch to a flipless game, which is not a human error but an intentional and major modification of the setup. But even there, for truth's sake, a few things must be cleaned up.
    I said the exact opposite of "not telling the players": I literally suggested to tell them, because it hadn't been done. I even said not doing it would confuse the players. Also, giving Frinckles the autovest if he survived was not "bending the setup", it was simply keeping the setup's mechanic:
    Quote Originally Posted by Setup
    - One auto vest is shared between both mafia players in the event they are attacked by the Serial Killer. You will not receive feedback should your vest be used.
    ~~

    What resulted in a punishment:
    As I said up there, switching the game to flipless isn't accidental nor unavoidable and hurts the game's integrity (flips being a major part of the game). When I brought that up, the replies were "Lmfao I really don't care", "Zedus can shut up", "It's not a ladder game", and later "Zedus can suck a dick and Oberon was going to die", and "you can kindly take the respecting the setup and shove it up your ass", etc. All of this doesn't exactly strike as the words of someone who got the agreement of everyone ("Zedus can shut up"...) and who cares about game integrity and who had been striving for balance.

    Now, if you're pleading you had the private agreement of your players and no objections (like how hosts proceed to make a requested change mid-game), then it would mean the punishment was based on a communication mistake between staff and you; in such a case, please make a thread with evidence in the Forum Mafia Reports & Appeals section, because you'd have been wrongly punished.


    P.S. "on hold" means "waiting for judgment", sorry if that was unclear.
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    ►►Re: Super Basic Redemption◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Are we changeing all the approved setups? I did not make this setup. yes the set formula would make this a 9 player setup 2 mafia 7 town (2x3=6+1=7 town). Again I am not the one who made this setup. It is in the approved setups. I was ment as a fun goofy setup. only change I made was Adding names to the roles. form the last time it was ran on this site by Aivion. I know we both where in that game. It is a basic setup. does rely on town to use day one not blow day 1. I also changed the 24hr day to 48 hr day. Does me adding the names or changing the 24hr day to 48hr day affect the balance?

    So my question is this. We are changing all the Already approved setups? If this is the case please let us who host games know because as fare as we have been told all setups in approved setups are good to go as is.

    Lw Dn are not allowed as said in the setup.
    suicides are not allowed.
    skips are allowed.

    I also added it to the setup to clear up any misunderstandings.
    We're not changing all approved setups, but after looking at how the game unfolded in the past and at the objective theoretical balance of this one, changes seemed to be a good thing to improve the balance. The "normal" ratio would be of 7 town vs 2 scum (such a setup exists and worked rather well btw), while this one has a ratio of 5 town vs 2 scum.

    ~~

    Given what we talked about in PMs (this change in player count compromising the setup's spirit due to the theme), we can always mark this setup as Experimental so that people know this isn't to be taken as a competitive but rather as a fun and relatively lighthearted game and work on making the theme work ^^. Do you want to go down this road?

    Thanks for the rest of the clarifications!
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    ►►Re: Post some music you like :)◄◄



    ...UwU????
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    ►►Re: Super Basic Redemption◄◄

    Are last wills, death notes, suicides and day skips allowed?

    Balance concern: This setup only leaves town 1 mislynch before putting town at LYLO (even if the doctor heals successfully), which creates a hard challenge for town (especially seeing how 5v2 is quite far from the usual ratio of town = 3mafia + 1). I suggest adding a citizen so that the doctor's heal is actually meaningful when it comes to giving town an additional mislynch possibility.

    Balance concern: What prevents a citizen from claiming his name early, getting a near-confirmed status (since scum doing this would have 3/5 odds of getting counter-claimed, which would be pretty bad)?
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    ►►Re: Should UwU'ing be a capital offense◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostByte View Post
    Strongly disagree because he uses it in place of a personality like Republicans do with guns
    Lol at the last part, but he doesn't
  14. Forum:Signups

    Thread:Percentage Mafia Sign Ups

    Thread Author:Dark Magician

    Post Author:Marshmallow Marshall

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    ►►Re: Percentage Mafia Sign Ups◄◄

    /reserve

    May I suggest to list signs and reserves in the OP? It'll make it easier for everyone to see this game's status.
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    ►►Re: S-FM The Thing (12P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by StarGunner View Post
    Very nice........How do I join and sign up to play The Thing? I remember the movie, it was pretty scary when I first saw it. The scene where Kurt Russell, AKA RJ Macready was about to torch The Thing, but his flamethrower wouldn't work. Hey I just realized. That would be an interesting mechanic in the FM, if Macready has the flamethrower, and every night he can use the flamethrower on someone, and it has a chance to fail because he can't get it to work. What do you guys think. Would that be cool, or what? Also, sign me up. I wanna play.
    I'm afraid it will take a while before the game starts: the queue is rather full, so many setups will go before this one. When signups are ready for this game though, you can simply post "/sign" to sign up (same goes for all games btw).

    As for your suggestion, I'll just say randomness is balance's enemy. It definetly sounds cool lore-wise, but I'm afraid it wouldn't be amazing gameplay-wise. Ideas are nice though
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    Poll: ►►Re: S-FM 317: Eternia (9P) [LADDER] Signups◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    If you sign i will send u mustard soup
    ...can't say no to that, /sign

    BUT IF YOU BLAME ME FOR NOT BEING HYPERACTIVE, I SHALL SACRIFICE YOU TO AHURA MAZDA
    (I'll be reasonably active though lol don't worry)
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    ►►Re: S-FM The Thing (12P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by StarGunner View Post
    Holy crap, this looks awesome. How is the FM played? Do you play it here, or on SC2 Mafia? How does the FM work? Will there really be a thing? What does it look like is there a model for it? I'm curious to see how these FMs are played.
    Mhmm, the setup is pretty good indeed.
    The game will be played here! It currently is on the Queue, which means that it will eventually be hosted when its turn comes.
    There will be a thing, yes: it's a role. Roles work like in the Arcade game, except the only limitations to their options are creativity and balance here, since there is an human host who processes actions himself.
    No models, sadly (the game is in a forum thread)... which doesn't mean the host can't use pictures ;)
  18. Forum:Signups

    Thread:Percentage Mafia Sign Ups

    Thread Author:Dark Magician

    Post Author:Marshmallow Marshall

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    ►►Re: Percentage Mafia Sign Ups◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by StarGunner View Post
    Looks interesting for sure, never played FM Mafia before. But I recall a message in SC2 Mafia regarding FMs being played on SC2MAFIA.COM. That's actually one of the reasons why I came to SC2mafia.com. To see what the big deal was all about. How do you play it.
    @StarGunner this thread may interest you ^^ https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...654#post828654
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    ►►Re: Should UwU'ing be a capital offense◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by StarGunner View Post
    This whole uwu thing is fucking annoying as hell, I mean it's okay when Healz or Ruinae do it. But anyone else, nope, fuck that shit.
    @theoneceko gets a pass though.
  20. Forum:Signups

    Thread:S-FM 312: Eternal Conflict!

    Thread Author:AIVION

    Post Author:Marshmallow Marshall

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    ►►Re: S-FM 312: Eternal Conflict!◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    /resign
    Oberon has resigned and was launched into space. His role was Reality Bender.
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    Poll: ►►Re: S-FM 317: Eternia (9P) [LADDER] Signups◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I’m looking at archoning with a friend from MU, is that allowed? 1.
    Also, any chance we could use plurality with majority instead of majority? 2. @Auwt
    Sorry, archon accounts aren't allowed on the ladder.

    I support the second motion ^^
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    Poll: ►►Re: S-FM 317: Eternia (9P) [LADDER] Signups◄◄

    Eeeeeeeh /reserve, hopefully I'm able to free myself to sign later
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    ►►Re: S-FM The Thing◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    @Marshmallow Marshall if you could squeeze me in somewhere in the queue, that’d be neat.
    Adding you to the Queue. Merging this post with the OP to give you control over the thread once again.
  24. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Do you watch standup

    Thread Author:Oberon

    Post Author:Marshmallow Marshall

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    ►►Re: Do you watch standup◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    if I visit texas you wanna hang?
    Preferably mafia members. Cultists work too.
  25. Forum:Signups

    Thread:S-FM 312: Eternal Conflict!

    Thread Author:AIVION

    Post Author:Marshmallow Marshall

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    ►►Re: S-FM 312: Eternal Conflict!◄◄

    Bump. Make sure you reconfirmed (and sign if you hadn't before)!
  26. Forum:Setup Workshop

    Thread:2.5krc

    Thread Author:Oberon

    Post Author:Marshmallow Marshall

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    [WIP] ►►Re: 2.5krc◄◄

    Mr. Noone

    You are noone in particular. The host must give you between 1 and 3 abilities; he will pick these abilities himself. May God have mercy upon your soul.
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    [WIP] ►►Re: S-FM Journey to Huygens (13P)◄◄

    The lynch proceeds as follows:
    Using condorcet voting, players rank other players from towniest to scummiest (in reverse order), during the first 24 hours. The towniest player, as decided by the election, gains 3 votes that day. The second player gets 2 votes. The third player gains one vote, and their vote acts as a tiebreaker; the rest get one vote. Finally, the bottom 2 players get no vote that day.
    This is potentially confusing. The third player does not gain one vote, but only has one (like normal players) and has a tie breaker, right? If so, the word "gain" is probably not the right one here.

    "During the last 48 hours, normal election mechanics play out." I assume this means votes (for lynch, not for election) are not Condorcet-managed, but placed by using the [vote] tags?

    What happens if there is a tie between votes at EoD, and that the player with the tie breaker isn't on either of the leading trains? Please specify.

    What happens if there aren't enough players for the vote weight slots to be full (i.e. if there are less than 5 players alive)? Please specify.

    Please specify the points Deathworlds brought up about mechanics in the setup (factional kill, suicide, skip, etc.)
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    ►►Re: TRUMP TEARS THREAD◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    We could all find something in common to hate? Like how about shitty wifi? fuck that guy
    Yes, unte agastin our comon enenemy

    Fuc lag
  29. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 315: Undercover

    Thread Author:Mesk514

    Post Author:Marshmallow Marshall

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    [WIP] ►►Re: S-FM Journey to Huygens (13P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    1. I’ll do that.
    2. I’ll add those, sgould be the same as for my other games.
    3. Good question. How about having the third player break ties?
    3. Good idea.

    Ping me when the rest is done ^^
  31. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 315: Undercover

    Thread Author:Mesk514

    Post Author:Marshmallow Marshall

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    ►►Re: S-FM 315: Undercover◄◄

    GG and congrats Zedus lol, you took advantage of town's flaws successfully.

    Also, mandatory reminder: I'm aware this was a heated game, but please remain civil in post-game discussion, everyone. If you make blatantly rulebreaking posts, you will be infracted for each post from now on.
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    [WIP] ►►Re: S-FM Journey to Huygens (13P)◄◄

    @Oberon

    - The scums' win condition is to "eliminate the other team", which implies they have to kill every townie in order to win. This could drag the game into useless phases in the event of a scum win. Since scums are guaranteed to win if town loses majority (scum would in theory all vote for the same scum team member, resulting in them getting the 3 votes and necessarily having a vote majority at EoD; hammers are excluded by pure plurality). Therefore, I suggest changing their wincon to "Have at least 50 % of the living players be of your alignment" or something similar.

    - Any rules?

    - What happens if there is a tie in votes at EoD? Please specify.
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    ►►Re: TRUMP TEARS THREAD◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    In this thread you have posted:

    - Several deflections, whataboutisms, and posts changing the direction of the thread multiple times.
    - Many claims, every single one of which is unsubstantiated and which you've not posted a single piece of evidence for. Anyone asking for evidence is completely ignored, as you deflect the argument yet again. I challenge you to show me a post in this thread for which you've shown any proof of. Just one.
    - An argument in which you genuinely contradict yourself within the same argument.

    These are habits that have been pointed out by multiple people, I'm just more honest about it. Notice that I disagree and have disagreed with others, though I'll discuss things differently with them because it's actually possible to stay on topic, get evidence and facts, and have discussions with them, rather than discussing conjecture, conspiracy theories, and summaries of talk shows.

    This isn't an attempt to stifle you or even insult you. It's me trying to get through to you that the way you argue is so flawed that it's not even useful to discuss these types of topics with you. The reason you're getting it more from me is because, frankly, pretty much everyone else has already given up, meanwhile I'm a stubborn fucker who can't let things go.

    But if it's not welcome, I suppose I can give up as well. My intention wasn't to insult the person, but point out flawed arguments and thinking.
    I don't mean to be an asshole by saying this. I just feel like it's necessary to highlight the issues here because it causes tensions needlessly and hurts the ability to have healthy debates (and even just discussions).
    If you don't want to insult people and you just want to prove them wrong, attack their logic. Don't do... this.
    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    I had a bit of a longer response typed up but I figured I didn't want to go through the effort of reading more word salad and cognitive dissonance. It really does feel to me like Oberon legitimately has not developed the facilities for critical reasoning of his own and other's arguments, and seems to be posting contradicting ideas here, all based off of feelings (or more accurately, what Tucker Carlson and Ben Shapiro have told him to feel) with not a shred of evidence yet to back anything up.

    Time to get this thread back on topic.



    Like really, it's not helping anyone, and it's just not nice. If you truly feel like you're talking to a brick wall and that it's not useful to anyone, well then... just stop, I guess?
    And by the way, I tend to agree with you more than with Oberon on politics when it comes to "classic left-right" arguments, so this isn't me taking any side but the side of logical, healthy discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    It's interesting because it's a way for me to talk to someone who I normally would never associate myself with, and there's no strings attached. Either one of us can leave at any time with no consequence.

    It's a way for me to see a completely different political mindset and I can choose to adapt or adopt the things that I like and I can just laugh at the ones I don't.

    He's made a couple of interesting arguments before, and he's making me do my research. If nothing else, I'm educating myself and that's never a bad thing.
    That's why talking with people who aren't in your echo chamber is good, yep. Like Exeter who made me define more clearly in my mind the importance of democratic tradition earlier, and have a sneak peak in why in the world would people not want democracy for non-religious reasons lol (and I must say it does make some sense, even though I definetly don't want it).
    Good post btw.
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    ►►Re: TRUMP TEARS THREAD◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Also I disagree on Pinochet :P I would personally support Pinochet if given the choice between a literal Marxist and him.
    ...
    VENCEREMOS INTENSIFIES

    I guess Pinochet was slightly better than Stalin, so I'll grant you that? That's just picking between two highly deadly poisons, though.
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    ►►Re: TRUMP TEARS THREAD◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I just hate everyone whose name starts with the letter M.
    That’s why I hate @Marshmallow Marshall
    Right, mag.
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    ►►Re: TRUMP TEARS THREAD◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    MM you’re still painting Exeter’s views in a very dim light that I do not agree with. Exeter is obviously not suggesting Stalinist style surveillance amd thought police; if you look at Freedom House’s ranking Singapore is ‘Partly Free’ overall and Unfree when it comes to press freedom. Please hold off with the Stalin comparisons.
    "Still" painting? Also, I already addressed this point:

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    And if you're going to say I picked highly authoritarian people instead of "soft" ones, well, you're right, but there is no such thing as a stable soft authoritarian regime. If someone has enough power to "imprison dissidents", as you say, he can and very likely will take over completely and establish a regime similar to the one Franco established government-wise.
    You even agreed with my conclusion here by saying you didn't expect the kind of government in place there would last, so I think we are in agreement here? Unless we THUNDERDOME here
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    ►►Re: TRUMP TEARS THREAD◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Exeter350 View Post
    As I answered to doug, ideally arguments will be backed by “reason”, but in actuality, that may not be the case, as is happening in the US now.

    However, I understand your point about lack of democracy and power abuse. I suppose this goes back to your earlier point about needing a failsafe to authority to safeguard power of the people.



    It would never have been allowed to get to that stage in the first place.

    The moment people started to make baseless accusations and inflammatory rhetoric, they would’ve been barred from running.

    i.e. Trump would’ve been ousted at the early stages in 2016 and the problem would never have become this big.

    As it is currently, the situation will need to managed delicately - Exactly how I cannot say. However to prevent such problems from arising in future, they should implement more stringent preventive measures.



    Unfortunately, no. He’s the authority, voted in by the public. He has should have the authority to imprison dissidents, not the other way around.

    However, as explained above, such a person would never have been allowed into office at all in the first place. He does not have what it takes to wield such authority.
    You're right. I never said we lived in a perfect world with perfect democracies though lol. We just should strive to cultivate the best world possible, and that indeed comes back to my point about the failsafe.

    It would indeed never have been allowed to get there in the first place, but then we would be talking about a completely different country.

    "Never having been allowed into office at all in the first place [when you're a crappy leader]" in this sense is an authoritarian utopia (and it being an utopia is the reason why authoritarianism is bad). If all authoritarian leaders were skilled and good-willed, authoritarianism would be amazing and superior to democracy (even a democracy with skilled and good-willed leaders). However, since most leaders are mediocre and since their goodwill is... debatable (especially when they want all the power for themselves), democracy is needed.
    Some examples of people who got into office in authoritarian regimes in different contexts: Hitler (elected and then basically self-proclaimed dictator), Stalin (not elected, under an authoritarian regime with great "political conformity", a bit like what you're advocating for), and, to take less universally hated people, Franco and Pinochet (through a coup d'tat). As far as I know, none of these were amazing.
    And if you're going to say I picked highly authoritarian people instead of "soft" ones, well, you're right, but there is no such thing as a stable soft authoritarian regime. If someone has enough power to "imprison dissidents", as you say, he can and very likely will take over completely and establish a regime similar to the one Franco established government-wise.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 316: The Fooling Party (13P) Signups◄◄

    /unreserve, sorry
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    ►►Re: TRUMP TEARS THREAD◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Exeter350 View Post
    You’re right, Stop the Steal crossed the boundaries like you described earlier.

    In the case of violence, I think it’s pretty clear cut that it should be shut down.

    However, even before that stage, there are other negative outcomes that could be prevented.
    For instance, civil unrest, peaceful protests, strikes, social disharmony / divisiveness, etc.

    Isn’t it better to nip the problem in the bud, rather than wait for it to escalate to riots before saying “Ok, it’s time to stop”?
    Those other problems, while not as extreme as violence, can still have significant, far-reaching and subtle consequences on the country.

    And while I admire your willingness to let those Stop the Steal people propagate their ideas and protest as long as it isn’t violent, I wouldn’t do the same.

    If I analyse their arguments and conclude that their cause is misguided, based on misinformation / disinformation, I would not allow them to disrupt the peace. Whether violent or peaceful, their actions will impact others in society.

    There may be a chance that my conclusion is wrong, but letting the problem drag on forever is not the solution either. There has to be a cut-off time to make a decision. The protesters will not like it, because they think they’re right, but they have to accept the judgment of the authorities. Failing that, they have to be isolated where they cannot stir further unrest, i.e. imprisonment.

    All to avoid the consequences of civil unrest. Not just the violence, but the effects of discontent and disharmony.
    https://criminal.findlaw.com/crimina...ing-riots.html

    Inciting riots or violence is not legal. If people are only voicing their discontent peacefully, you have to defeat them by reason and not by prison... else, there is no democracy, and the lack of democracy leads to forms of power abuse I shouldn't have to talk about given how much history has given examples of this. This is even more important than attempting to protect some level of nation stability. The only exception I see to this is in a time of total or very important and large-scale war, during which the country's very integrity is threatened if its citizens are not strictly united (and it'd eventually lead to death of democracy anyway if such a war was to be lost).

    Plus, that's a lot of discontent people. Doing what you suggest would probably result in an actual civil war that would probably involve something like a third of the whole country on the Trumpist side (if half the country voted for Trump, I daresay there are some among those who are sane enough not to want Secession War 2.0). It's not like you can throw them all in jail and expect no resistance when they feel like they have to defend their liberties; doing this would just give them a halo of righteousness and morality.

    There's also a big thing you're missing... Trump himself isn't cooling things down at all. Should he be arrested too?
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    ►►Re: Is this political?◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Plotato View Post
    Thank you for posting a graph with no title nor context or premise
    To be fair, noone in the world should need further context lol

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostByte View Post
    It shouldn't be but it's kind of impossible to avoid the political implications of it
  41. Replies
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    ►►Re: TRUMP TEARS THREAD◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Twitter, Facebook and Youtube are arguably not private entities.
    B-but that's a far left view! FREE BUSINESS!!!!! /s

    They very much are private entities (even though they're very strong ones).
    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    First law of mega government is:

    Magoroth is banned from talking politics. A handler will be with him 24/7 ensuring he doesn't partake. If discovered to have made another political thread, he is to be immediately shot into the sun.
    You mean MAGA government
  42. Replies
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    ►►Re: TRUMP TEARS THREAD◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Exeter350 View Post
    In my country, it’s only enforced against our citizens. On the giant social media platforms, e.g. Facebook & Twitter, accounts are usually tied to real world identity, so it’s possible to enforce.

    During this election, there was a large Facebook group (>300k members) called “Stop the Steal” in which US citizens were organising protests against election fraud. However, this was shut down by Facebook, prompting backlash from the group admins about how it’s unwarranted and against free speech.

    Since many here know that some of the election fraud accusations have been debunked as either false alarms, minor data entry mistakes or straight-up lies,
    What do you think of these troublemakers who refuse to listen to “facts and logic” and still want to organise protests? What if it escalated into riots and civil war?

    Isn’t it better to just shut them down early to prevent the situation from escalating?
    Having heard their arguments and looked into it, and answering their concerns, there should be no further need to discuss this further.

    Or are the Stop the Steal admins right, that shutting them down was wrong, and that they should’ve been allowed to protest?
    Things have to be put in context first. Stop The Steal was deleted for inciting violence (literally having a #civilwar...). The movement crossed the line I talked about earlier: the line beyond which free speech does not protect you anymore. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/05/t...ook-group.html

    However, straight up shutting the movement down for contesting the official version of things would result in a "Streisand effect" strenghtened by the righteousness provided by the stifling of free speech the movement would be a victim of, as wrong as they may be. Therefore, Facebook was right to shut the page down, but it wouldn't have been if they hadn't incited violence.

    Just as a disclaimer I feel like I have to add, I'm not begging the question by supposing free speech is inherently good without explaining why: my last post about trust in governments and the importance of democratic tradition explains it.
  43. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 315: Undercover

    Thread Author:Mesk514

    Post Author:Marshmallow Marshall

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    ►►Re: S-FM 315: Undercover◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostByte View Post
    So your biggest gripe is that I didn't like Banana dying and I "gave him a TR" even though he had died and flipped town at that point? So you're basically scumpainting me with 0 reasoning. If anything, this is an anti-reason to scumpaint me lmfao I didn't give banana a read at all.

    Not my fault you don't know how to observe and act on patterns of human behavior. Weak.

    So speaking to Auwt, who flipped TPR, is a sin and somehow scummy? The only town thing to do would be not speak to him and act like he didn't exist?

    Yeah, anyone who read the thread knows this already. You're trying to make it look like you're putting in effort but there's still literally 0 logic behind any of these observations.
    Alright, Frostbyte is town there and
    -vote Dark Magician
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    ►►Re: TRUMP TEARS THREAD◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I did not make the claim that 'saying that someone's views are stupid' suppresses free speech. It depends on who says it.
    If Distorted says someone's views were stupid (assuming that someone were THERE, on the discord, and assuming that it was intended to reach that someone), it is pretty evidently made to stifle speech.
    If I say it? Who gives a shit? But it's a completely different matter when someone 'in charge' does it. Imagine if Justin Trudeau went ahead and said "oops is a retard and nobody should listen to him". How would you feel?

    Also, you're still talking about legal issues lol when I already agreed that from a legal standpoint you are totally in your right to ban someone from your site for being a Trump supporter. Just remember that when Slaol swung his admin dick around, he got demoted. For admin abuse. You or anyone, for that matter, hypothetically banning Trump supporters would fall in the same scenario for me.
    I completely agree with every single word of this post and strongly support that view, by the way.
  45. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 315: Undercover

    Thread Author:Mesk514

    Post Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Replies
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    ►►Re: S-FM 315: Undercover◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Zedus View Post
    War is peace
    Freedom is slavery
    Ignorance is strength
    I so wish I could give you rep for this lol.
  46. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 315: Undercover

    Thread Author:Mesk514

    Post Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Replies
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    9,686

    ►►Re: S-FM 315: Undercover◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    I'm pretty confident you [Gyrlander] are Mafia though I'm not entirely sure who with. My first thought was DM since he keeps going on about having initially scumread you and flipping that to a top townread, but it's probably MM since you two have barely interacted this game.

    Anyway, I'm trying to hit the SK so I'm not voting you atm. I'm thinking Oberon or DM for SK but if we can't reach a consensus we're probably fucked. There's only four of us left and you screwed our lynch twice. ( ͡ ʖ̯ ͡)
    Why
    Why (although I definetly scumread DM, in a vacuum, what you just described is just called "reevaluation")
    Why (how does that make me scum with gyr? Plus this is based on a scumread on Gyr, which itself is based on no reasoning??)
    Why (I agree, but you haven't explained anything)
    Have I mentioned the word "why"?


    Yeah, the missing slot in my PoE is probably Frinckles there. Which makes the solve {Oberon/DM/Probably Frinckles, if not then Zedus}.
  47. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 315: Undercover

    Thread Author:Mesk514

    Post Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Replies
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    ►►Re: S-FM 315: Undercover◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    My Onenote was destroyed by my cat.


    This is such a "Gyrlander" sentence.
  48. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 315: Undercover

    Thread Author:Mesk514

    Post Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Replies
    1,277
    Views
    9,686

    ►►Re: S-FM 315: Undercover◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    I already asked you why FB is SK. Honestly this might be a bit unfair but he was being replaced and I don't know if he would have been able to kill Banana.
    Do not angel shoot. Angel lives matter.

    The real question is "why would Frost be SK", and I haven't seem DM ever answer that.
  49. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 315: Undercover

    Thread Author:Mesk514

    Post Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Replies
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    ►►Re: S-FM 315: Undercover◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    meh I just wanted to see how you would react.
    This reeks of scum testing the waters and seeing the push doesn't work lol.
  50. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 315: Undercover

    Thread Author:Mesk514

    Post Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Replies
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    Views
    9,686

    ►►Re: S-FM 315: Undercover◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Zedus View Post
    We have 2 days without lynch. The reasoning of that is obvious: Mafia have no night kills, so they will not lynch sk until he hit one of them. Because

    We had 2 nights and 2 kills, so SK never hit mafia. If he hits one, we will have no kill. After that mafia will have to lynch SK, because he will probably attack the same target once again. But mafia feels good while SK killing citizens, there is no reasons for them in lynch him.

    Oberon is kinda top 1 in SK list, and probably he is. So our scum pool is non-voters on him:

    Marshmallow Marshall
    Gyrlander
    Dark Magician
    Oberon himself.




    We have only 3 scums in game, so one of this players is citizen, who act anti-town for some dumb reasons. Well, let's think about some versions.

    Version 1. Oberon is citizen.
    Let's take a look on a world, there Oberon is just a citizen. Yes, he is top 1 SK "read", I know, but what if he is just a cornered citizen, who don't know what to do and voting literally everyone around with this egoistic "lynch anyone, but not me". I am sure that this is best scum indicator in this community (every scum in every game doing this then cornered), but we now work with version of citizen!Oberon. He will not be voted by mafia, until real SK will hit one of mafs. He will not be voted by real SK, because SK is interested in delaying his lynch, since after Oberon's death, everyone will start looking for REAL SK, and everyone who didn't vote Oberon will be suspected first.

    Who are the pretenders?

    Marshmallow Marshall. Well, I cannot agree he is not active in this game. He is active, but his entire activity is about depreciate everything others say. Can SK do that? Yes. Can mafia do that? Yes. Can citizen do that? Well... yes. But in the world with citizen!Oberon there is no place for citizen!MM.

    Gyrlander. He acts totally not in town benefit from game start. I asked him 3 direct questions about his acts, twice he ignored me, once he gives bullshit answer. Post #514 if you somehow missed it. He is the one who "would have hammered Mag if FrostByte didn't last minute change to Frinckles" and "will not lynch Mag in any case". He is really full of shit. But more likely for me that he is mafia in the world of citizen!Oberon with MM as his teammate. Because

    Dark Magician. I have never seen such selfish, cocky and incompetent person like this. He can easy be replaced by Bot from mafia discord. With 2 scripts:
    1. say something like "I am pro","I am good", "I am best"
    2. call Zedus mafia without any reason and tonnel him.
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    As I said before, this bonobo is kind of my personal hater, who plays every game with this way. His game impact is always at zero level. His playstyle is always anti-town. Looks like I would just don't count this poll-parrot as player, but what we have from him, if we will exclude every his post with narcissism and tonneling? Here we are:

    Yes, from SK POV there is 2 mafias and gg.





    Ye, it's "obviously" Oberon, but he don't vote him.
    (Well, once he voted, but instantly cancelled the vote because of hight hammering possibility.)

    Ah, sorry, I said I will filter out all narcissism of this bonobo, but it's really impossible.


    Sure, because after FBI man get killed SK would focus on mafia to win, or they will just outvoted him at some point.



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    Really, someone still able to buy all this shit and keep this animal alive?
    If he flips town, I hope, everyone here will join my reports on him. We don't need such "players" in this community. This is not even a player. This is bot, scripted for narcissism and undreasonable shittalking. The only thing that can justify him is that he is SK or mafia. But if he is mafia, I really sorry for his partner. It's terrible to play with such moron in team.

    So in citizen!Oberon world DM is clearly SK and Gyrlander+MM probably the mafia team.

    Version 2. Oberon is mafia, not SK.

    Then Gyrlander is obviously his mafia partner, and SK slot leaves us DM and MM. I prefer to think that MM is paranoic citizen and DM is selfish sk, but that's still possible that MM will be SK in mafia!Oberon world and DM just a gamethrower, who must be punished and removed from this site forever, or replaced by bot if someone really need this clown here for some reasons.

    Versin 3. Oberon is SK.
    Well, clearly the main path for town, but we will have no votes, because mafia will never vote him and we have the gamethrower DM in town team. If DM is mafia then we have... 2 paranoic citizens who will not vote Oberon for some reasons? I think, that's kinda impossible.


    But also I want an explaination for this move:

    What was this jump at EOD, really? Now Gyrlander can really say "I was about to hammer, but you switched your vote" and there is no way to check it.
    That's a whole lot of saying everyone acted anti-town this game. I didn't see much towny things, but saying basically everyone (excluding the dead and maybe Frostbyte) was anti-town is a stretch. Not that it's impossible for town!Zedus to have those views, but it would be pretty convenient for mafia!Zedus to have them, because it'd allow him to push basically everyone and win through pure lynching after taking the SK down if he managed to convince people of his cases.

    That being said, the case against Dark Magician is rather compelling. Not voting someone you're calling "obviously SK" is rather damning, and if you think he's obviously SK, you WILL end up putting your vote on him to get him lynched, which is obviously better than a no-lynch.

    Also, if Oberon is Mafia, I am basically spewed clear atm for upholding the push against him today lol.


    Conclusion: Mafia!Zedus is a possibility, but never with mafia!DM, and mafia!DM is more likely than mafia!Zedus due to his blatant scumminess. Oberon is some sort of scum, and mafia!Oberon is highly compatible with mafia!DM. That would leave someone else as SK, perhaps Zedus himself or someone like Frinckles or Frost (although I have a gut townread on the latter, perhaps because he's not afraid to "charge in").
    Another possibility is that DM is SK, leaving Oberon as Mafia and... who else? I disagree with Zedus that Gyrlander would be Mafia: he's the only player I find rather towny for more than just weak vibes this game... Could it be Zedus? I guess it's not impossible that he's a bussing mastermind who's now excluding himself from the scum pool in a mafia!Oberon world. It could also be either of Frinckles or Frost once again.
    Either way, lynching between Oberon and DM is the way to go here, and no-lynch is NOT the way to go.
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