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  1. Forum:Site Discussion

    Thread:Ruling on "Goofy"

    Thread Author:Voss

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
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    271

    ►►Re: Ruling on "Goofy"◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    Again, one last symbol of integrity because that's what I stand for. I only reported twice and they are legitimate slurs against Canadians.

    I better not see your Texas ass up here or I'll show you a better way to barbecue your meats and humble your foolishness.

    Really out for dis time.
    Lol. Im down.

    Here is my current process:
    Sea salt the steaks 1 day prior and leave them in the fridge.
    10 Hours prior to cooking season (usually some blend of Worcestershire sauce and garlic)
    Vacuum seal steaks and cook on a Sous Vide cooker (hits exact temperature without loosing any flavor)
    While cooking steaks fire up grill for sides and such
    Remove steaks from Sous Vide and sear on grill (about 1 minute each side, seals everything in and gives that grilled texture)
    Let steaks rest while dishing out the grub

    I have done lots of things with my meat but this beats smoking, grilling it or cooking it in an oven and it is honestly much easier. The texture comes out crazy perfect and you can cook your steaks to the very exact temperature you want without all those juices that hold the flavor falling into your grill. Close second would be literally digging a hole, burring the meat wrapped in foil in a bed of coals (under and over.)

    If you got something better than that I would love to get edjamacated on it : )
  2. Forum:Site Discussion

    Thread:Ruling on "Goofy"

    Thread Author:Voss

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    24
    Views
    271

    ►►Re: Ruling on "Goofy"◄◄

    If the intention behind the action defines the morality of the action I think its more of a question of if his intention was to spam report functions than what word or what the issue is..

    I have too little understanding of site moderation and the situation to have any opinion though.
  3. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Who was the most evil person?

    Thread Author:Helz

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
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    ►►Who was the most evil person?◄◄

    Something I have been digging into for quite a few years is the nature of evil but it did lead me to a question. Who is the most evil person in history and more importantly why?

    I am sure Hitler, Stalin, Columbus, Mao Zedong and Gangis Khan can easily be argued but I am specifically curious to hear 'why' and I think it could make for an interesting discussion into the nature of evil.
  4. Forum:Forum Mafia Discussion

    Thread:QuickTopic is shutting down

    Thread Author:Lag

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
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    192

    ►►Re: QuickTopic is shutting down◄◄

    I dont really see this as a big issue. Anon chats can be hosted anywhere. You could simply make accounts on any free game server if you wanted to do it ghetto and logging the chat is as simple as copy/paste into the thread post game. With few exceptions Anon chats are not often 'active' anyways.
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    ►►Re: Creating opportunities for youth◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by MaShY View Post
    Many K-12 schools have something called a "Facilities Use Request." Sometimes it's on their website (buried), sometimes you have to email the business department (addr should be available online).

    What those give you are a place to meet other than a public park: You can reserve a school's soccer field, gym, etc. All you have to do is fill out a form that you won't leave any trash/etc. The nicer/bigger the facility, the less likely they'll grant use w/o history.

    It's an option if you want a place to meet that's familiar to kids. If you get someone like Lions or Rotary to contribute some cheap materials, your group can do the install, and then you'll have an in in the future.
    I appreciate the info. When digging through the NPO listings I did come across Lions.

    The conversation that started this was literally about how the youth in Killeen too often don’t have access to athletic programs on a basic level.
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    ►►Re: Sc2 Mafia Private Lobby with friends.◄◄

    Another option is to host it on the ‘unmoderated’ version.
    You could also create the accounts yourself and put in for their white lists to start the process with less coordination.

    I should also point out there’s a minimum number of players required which may prevent what your trying to do. If you very specifically want a private lobby other viable options exist such as our narrator, epic mafia or town of Salem which wouldn’t require them downloading the client. And if they are real life friends you can play mafia/werewolf in person or through a chat program like Skype.

    Best of luck with what your trying to accomplish. I hope this helps.
  7. Replies
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    ►►Creating opportunities for youth◄◄

    Over the years I have had a passion for enabling people to accomplish things in life. I have recently started dating a girl that shares that passion and I have been reaching out to people for ideas and advice on what could be effective.

    A lot of my focus is on things that create opportunities long term without consistency requiring money and time. One basic thing I have settled on is using my ability in construction to repair the basketball goals in a local park.

    A good portion of what I am looking at gets into networking within local government which I have little experience in but if anyone has experience working with that, NPO’s or even just ideas I would appreciate any thoughts.
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    ►►Re: Non-leading title about speech◄◄

    I like this sites take on free speech.

    It’s very tolerant while encouraging that there is a ‘correct place’ for different things and is respectful of people’s views when presented in good faith. Social pressures are used more than powers/punishments to resolve issues and when things go too far topics are simply closed.
  9. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Withdrawal from Afghanistan

    Thread Author:yzb25

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    52
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    1,656

    ►►Re: Withdrawal from Afghanistan◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    Blame Donald Rumsfeld for somehow convincing POTUS Bush Jr. to tangent into Iraq when their primary focus should've been Afghanistan from the get-go.

    Another example of failed American leadership fucking shit up for the rest of us non-Americans trying to live our own lives peacefully.
    I’m starting to feel like ‘American’ and ‘leadership’ do not belong next to etchother in context with politicians. It’s getting to the point of how we joke about the term ‘government intelligence’
  10. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:I am not posting again for a month

    Thread Author:Oberon

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: I am not posting again for a month◄◄

    I kinda think he is just saying something ugly to bait a rise out of people. Kinda feels like that mentality where people want to be shitty towards someone but they want to do it from a soap box.
  11. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:I am not posting again for a month

    Thread Author:Oberon

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
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    ►►Re: I am not posting again for a month◄◄

    Everyone feels a certain way about stuff. One thing I genuinely appreciate about this community is that it challenges the way I think while also being tolerant of allowing me to learn when my views were questionable. I have had entire topics rambling about highly questionable stuff as I break away from what people consider 'acceptable' and try to find the truth for myself which has often put me arguing some pretty radical stuff that flirts a line of 'what is ok' but at the end of the day allowing that sort of discussion has made me grow as a person. Sometimes I look back at some of the stuff I said and feel it was so baseless and ignorant (and once that I had failed to do due diligence on my sources and was parroting some views from a source designed to promote racism) but especially after what happened to me in MU I feel that this community is unique in that respect. It actually gives a shit about what someone's intention is and it is tolerant of real open good faith discussion on contentious subjects which allows its members to grow.

    What I would say to you is that you are a very open minded individual and I would simply take advantage of the way this community enables you to sort through your beliefs. Its very difficult to challenge your own world view and humbling to say when you are wrong but being able to be humble and growing from the experience will makes us better people in multiple respects. Its much harder to do when you get constantly dog piled making the interactions more abrasive and defensive than would be productive but hindsight can still create positive motion for our future.
  12. Forum:Approved Forum Mafia Setups

    Thread:S-FM SVM (10P or 14P)

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:Helz

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    [Approved Experimental] ►►Re: S-FM SVM◄◄

    So after chatting with Ozy about it I realized something worth mentioning. This setup does something kinda profound that I have never seen before. On the most basic level in a game of Mafia the town wants to lynch people to eliminate scum and create information for hunting scum while the scum just wants to establish a majority. The 'balance' of a game is centered around player count but only because of votes. When each player has 1 its easy to quantify.

    In this setup that changes. Vote power shifts between players far beyond the existence of a mayor. But what is truly interesting is that it makes the 'balance' value of killing a player dynamic. In this game kills would not be simply eliminating a player from one side but rather a substantial shift in vote power.

    Going even deeper it creates a situation where a 'majority' could be reached without the game being a loss. Scum could acquire the majority vote (normally ending the game) but be noticed and TPR's could shift the majority back into the hands of the town the next day.

    Lynches would also have to account for the 'vote power' of the individual. Maybe you town read Helz but if the guy has 8 vote power that 10% chance he is scum becomes really scary and players would question if he is too dangerous to be kept alive.

    Figured some of this was worth pointing out. I found it super interesting to think about and this borders on transforming the game into something other than mafia on a very basic level. I have never seen a setup that actually changes the core power dynamics of how a game functions like that but I bet if someone mentioned the idea to someone like Zork something... 'unique' would happen.
  13. Forum:Approved Forum Mafia Setups

    Thread:S-FM SVM (10P or 14P)

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    16
    Views
    293

    [Approved Experimental] ►►Re: S-FM SVM◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Yesterday I thought the setup great.
    Today I think the setup is way too much, both for hosting and for playing.
    This had lots of really interesting tweeks. But it really would be a nightmare to keep track of the vote counter and the Meme is crazy strong.
  14. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Withdrawal from Afghanistan

    Thread Author:yzb25

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    52
    Views
    1,656

    ►►Re: Withdrawal from Afghanistan◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Compare it to how it took the Russians 8 year to fully withdraw all their forces from the Baltic states after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    [Wiki]
    But ok those are not comparable


    It was Trump who promised that though, and Biden was just respecting that agreement.

    I'm just wondering though. Will the US now expand less tax money towards the military or will nothing change in that regard? Your medical and education bills are kinda legendary around the world ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Valid points. Trump is no better and arguably the cause of the timeline although I would point to (and took part in) the consolidation of Iraq that was well executed without any loss of life. Regardless of the timeline (and with my ignorance of politics) the 'withdraw' from Afghanistan looked like it was caused by some total panic retreat. Blame it on Biden or Trump but that never would have happened if whatever jackass politician had listened to military advice. I was not sitting in war cabinets in Iraq or Afghanistan but I am very damn confident no military commander would have willingly allowed that mess if they had half the resources they felt they needed to at least stand up for a decent fight.

    I don't think the US will spend a dollar less until this tragedy is used as an excuse to go back and restart the war machine.

    I do always like to point out how medicine and education are the only subsidized things and they are absolutely out of control in price which points to how subsidized capitalism only profits the private industries with the money to lobby while shifting the cost to the tax payer. It truly is a legendary business model for anyone who wants to generate profitable subsidization which funnels money from the tax payer to the private industry.
  15. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Withdrawal from Afghanistan

    Thread Author:yzb25

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    52
    Views
    1,656

    ►►Re: Withdrawal from Afghanistan◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Maybe so, but inside a Mosque? I'm not a Muslim but even I think suicide bombing inside a Mosque is just insane.
    I am not sure how to say this in a politically correct way but when I was in Afghanistan there was a city they used as a mosque to base attacks. They would snipe from near by and then retreat to the mosque knowing it was some 'sacred' bullshit we would not touch. I think I lost my sympathy there when they started making an effort to get kids killed so they could launch a PR campaign that the child died after demanding payment for the killed kid.

    The fact they are now killing etch other in a mosque gets a giggle from me after how little regard they have for the 'rules of war' or any ethics. Go to your local VA and talk to your combat vets with PTSD and you will find most of them are fucked up because those assholes used women and children to do some really ugly stuff because they had social 'protections.' Saying a Mosque is sacred is just declaring it off limits to 1st world countries. An enemy that uses children as cannon fodder for a marketing ploy has no moral standing.
  16. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Withdrawal from Afghanistan

    Thread Author:yzb25

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    52
    Views
    1,656

    ►►Re: Withdrawal from Afghanistan◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    It seems like it's not going well for Afghanistan.
    In a suicide blast inside a Shia Mosque, in Kunduz, killed over 100 people. It's the third deadly attack this week apparently targeting religious institutions.
    If you want a source, it seems every news media in existence has covered it - take your pick. If it's all the same to you, I got it from video description in a recent UN Watch video.

    How in the world can any Muslim do suicide bombing inside a Mosque of all places? They've gone completely mad.
    They have been killing themselves for thousands of years. The biggest thing I see as changed is that now small warlords have giant tanks and cannons they can do it with.

    I think American leaders got what they wanted though. They were able to funnel trillions of dollars from the American public to arms manufactures who lobbied with congress and they get to act blameless condemning Afghans while they are used to commit atrocious acts of violence.

    On the bright side Biden played it off well shifting the blame to the generals. The leadership on how withdraw happened was impressively incompetent. Hopefully it will stand as an example of exactly why you should listen to the advice of professionals in your field when you have no clue what you are doing.
  17. Forum:Setup Workshop

    Thread:S-FM D e m o c r a z y (14P)

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
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    [WIP] ►►Re: S-FM D e m o c r a z y (14P)◄◄

    That would be true if players were allowed to vote for both +1 and -1 at the same time. Could just stop that by declaring they can only do one of the two at a time.

    I would also be curious how meta would change with that. I do not think all players would voice opposition to a counter train. In my experience most of the time people see 2 wagons and say "Im not opposed to train B but out of the two options I would rather see train A flip"

    The mechanical information generated from opposition votes would have an interesting twist on wagonomics as well..
  18. Forum:Setup Workshop

    Thread:S-FM D e m o c r a z y (14P)

    Thread Author:Marshmallow Marshall

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
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    316

    [WIP] ►►Re: S-FM D e m o c r a z y (14P)◄◄

    If your following the +1 -1 idea I would just genuinely caution the weight it brings to a team scum that knows their team mates. Lost wolves or town blocks would break up the advantage but I do think giving a -1 ability to votes gives a team block a substantial advantage and could add some big swing depending on how the player base uses the potential.
  19. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:My Perma-Ban on MU

    Thread Author:Helz

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
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    ►►Re: My Perma-Ban on MU◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    I've learned to not take such statements at face value. Last time I did that, I was lead to wrongfully believe that the MU mods had bullied someone to suicide in the past - until I did my own "research" and saw that the proclaimed dead person has had alt accounts that they played on still years/months after the fact.
    I am not sure that its a conversation I want to have on the forum but the reaction to the belief someone had taken their life says more about the moderation team than if someone actually died or not imo. I personally believe trying to convince people they are responsible for your death is one of the greatest evils an individual could do if that was the case but I did not keep digging to find out what happened in the fall out so I can't speak intelligently about it.
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    ►►Re: Non-leading title about speech◄◄

    I could see both sides.

    Against free speech:
    -On one hand 'free speech' is often not healthy in an age where people step into conversations to 'argue their side' more than discuss a subject.
    -Free speech is already limited. Its not a question of 'if' but rather a question of 'how much.' Read a story years back about a guy who posted his ex girlfriends address on craigslist or something describing a rape fantasy and asking people to just show up at her door and rape her (pretending to be her.) I don't think any rational person would say 'thats ok because free speech'
    -It allows crazies to find etchother and make etchother feel like they are normal and its society thats crazy fostering conspiracy theory's which have been damaging. The election fraud one is particularly dangerous imo and I even had a conversation last night (or this morning depending on how you look at it) with a guy arguing the south just needs to rise up and separate from America. Sure its less overt in instigating potential violence than the rape post guy but it still creates that potential on a large scale.
    -Establishing limits on public discourse does not eliminate the conversation. It just shifts the contentious subjects to more private interactions (which may be where its more appropriate to have them anyways)
    -Some beliefs are universally taboo. If a group got together to talk about the best ways to lure little boys from elementary schools there is probably not very many people on the planet that would find that use of speech ok.

    For Free Speech:
    -It throws the 'ugly' side of society in everyone's face so it gets dealt with. Being able to draw attention to issues is a core function of allowing a society to evolve in the interest of its population.
    -Limiting what can be said is a building block of oppression. There was a thing I read years back that put that with disarming a population as the 2 key steps a nation must take before true oppression is viable. So long as a society can speak about the wrongs going on or has the ability to fight in their defense its orders of magnitude more difficult to oppress them.
    -Enabling people to speak their minds allows us to know who we are dealing with. I would rather know where I stand with people and what their morals are than live in ignorant bliss.
    -Limiting free speech with laws / rules is absurdly difficult. There is a reason its always done by preventing access as opposed to processing punishments for the individual and the arbitrary nature of social interactions makes it hell to be fair and objective. Just ask any forum Mod : P

    On a basic level accepting free speech is already limited (and justifiablly so) shifts the question from 'should it be limited' into 'how should it be limited.' The largest issue I see on hate speech is what do you qualify as hate speech? Racism is wrong but it it only wrong when talking about some races? Who gets to decide if someone is speaking in good faith and what subjects are declared 'too taboo to speak about?'

    I personally feel like its an issue that should be tackled on the smallest level possible but I do support limitations on free speech.
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    ►►Re: Double Standards in Racism and Sexism◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    That's really the dichotomy that Critical Race Theory proposes as it was developed from Critical Theory. Consciously or unconsciously, Blacks must be victims, Whites must be oppressors. But I don't understand how that means an ethnicity can't show prejudice or racism against whites or any ethnicity.
    This thought process is something that has bothered me for a very long time. The idea that racial or gender based hate is itself one directional is probably one of the most ignorant commonly voiced beliefs I hear. The fact an individual's 'group' is seen as holding privileged status in no way translates to them being immune personally from discrimination and hate. The way society accepts thinly veiled hate speech as a push for equality based on victim status is ridiculous to me.

    I largely see it as why CRT is controversial. The bits where it deconstructs racism and informs people on systemic issues is excellent but there are many who use it to push a message of racial hate under the guise of eliminating racial hate which just makes no sense.
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    ►►Re: Interesting off-site experiences◄◄

    So to dive a little deeper..

    Turning votes from a vote to lynch into a +1 -1 would add power to the scum. It would increase the value of pocketing as well as increase the value of having a team block so some measures would have to be taken to mitigate that. Maybe limitations on using the -1 on a player multiple days in a row or even creating town blocks with limitations on them mutually confirming etch other.

    For the setup concept I was tinkering with there was a few other things I wanted to try. The must significant was radically changing win conditions into a quantified point system. I was looking at establishing 'achievements' that would earn points for the individual so individuals could 'win.' Things like being a doc and successfully blocking a kill, having your faction win, and submitting nightly guesses for PR's and Alignments would maintain the 'team' nature of the game but eliminate that social loafing that plagues some games. It also creates the potential to set achievements that act against the standard interest of an individuals team forcing players to balance stacking up points for themselves while also fighting for their team to win. I really feel like in a lot of ways this would create a more enjoyable gameplay while creating incentive for individuals to try hard and 'stir the pot' so to speak. The potentials are absolutly endless and you could create some absolutely absurd ones like killing the person you are loverized with.

    I also wanted to play with evolving roles to protect game balance and make each players role interesting. One flaw I saw for almost all setups is that their balance depends on some grace through RNG. If a bunch of critical lynches and kills happen the first few days it can just wreck game balance in ways that make it difficult to impossible for a team to come back. By having roles evolve night by night or tied to things such as the player count on a team you can offset this effect ensuring that even as the game moves strongly in favor of one side things stay interesting. As opposed to dedicated roles I was thinking of 1 shot abilities and potentially adding hidden role modifiers. Like known to players (but not who) 1 player in the game could be 'insane' reversing the actions they take and the feedback they receive or some such. That and offiscating information into pools like 'Either player A, B, or C is guilty of murder.' Stuff that provides information and drives analysis and interactions without actually allowing for deductively crunching the game.

    I personally feel that the heart of the game is creating a healthy balance between information that can be used to solve while preserving enough ambiguity that allows for people to lie about whats going on. D1's drag ass because many do not know how or care to push to break RVS and create content so by ensuring such information is created by the host it translates to players engaging and having a good experience. This could even be done by having a setup start as closed but having pieces reveled as the game went on.

    Then theres theems. Imo the most entertaining ones are the ones that allow for some absurd level of entertainment that can carry into some role play. I had an idea for an MK ultra theme of a town of players forced to take acid simply because it would allow hilarious death descriptions and player interactions while the nature of halucinagens could tie in well to hiding information. Maybe everyone saw a pink elephant kill the guy last night by flogging him to death with a pool noodle but who was the pink elephant?
    That and someday I have to do the Captain Mousey vs the Crazy Cat Lady Society because I coded it in as the April fools flavor. Like.. that just has to become a thing at some point..

    I also very much like the dynamics created by having a lost wolf. It makes scum have to scum hunt and adds a level of complexity to their side that is excellent. The game I played where the town thought they were all lost wolves I only disliked because the town were made to play against their win con while the scum were still informed and playing for their win. That same concept would have worked great if the scum thought they were town or if the town were actually all survivors but it honestly took 'bastard setups' too far imo..

    A lot of these concepts would need a lot of balancing but I personally feel they are largely in the direction of creating the most enjoyable games for the players which should always be the goal of a setup. Maybe these ramblings will create some interesting ideas.
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    ►►Re: Australian submarines◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    What's funny about democracy that it's not as democratic as it could be with today's technology.
    Ohh, you think you can choose politicians to vote and that makes it so power and civic responsibility are exercised by all adult citizens?
    This is not 3000 years ago when the most "democratic power" you could give your citizen is give them vote on who will govern them, and those in turn had to gather in 1 room to debate while being rich enough to have no needs.

    I do believe our ~3000 years old governing system could be improved. Idk how, but it just has to be possible.
    Very valid point. A part of me wants to look back at the issues with establishing decision making groups through a lottery but the existing structures we use are ridiculously antiquated in many respects
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    ►►Re: Australian submarines◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post


    How so :P
    Asking a system of scale to act against the interests of its individuals in favor of what's best for the public is foolish in my opinion. On the micro good moral leaders can exist who will 'do the right thing' but on scale nature takes its course. I personally do not think its very reasonable to expect a system to act against its interests and limit its own power to ensure some moral standard that the system itself is incapable of recognizing. On scale and on a long timeline natural functions will have their effect.
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    ►►Re: Australian submarines◄◄

    When I was in Iraq I got to know a few guys from the French foreign legion. They kinda looked at their countries politics like I looked at Americas but with much more of a good natured laugh than I could carry at the time.

    To the question of if a non-democratic regime could be called good in the long term I would say yes. I would even say that public interest in the long term is against self moderation in multiple ways. Although I doubt those words matter.
  26. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Arizona Election Proven Stolen

    Thread Author:Voss

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
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    ►►Re: Arizona Election Proven Stolen◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    I’m wondering how many of your shitposts I have missed because they look exactly like your other posts and your posts have so many words that I usually just skim them and nod in agreement.
    Probably none. There is some cute takes in what I said there but I have only recently gotten pissed off enough about everything to tear at social norms within established structures when they do not seem to give a flying fuck about the individual.

    Ask yourself what social structures justify the loss of freedom in exchange for interaction within society and you will at least have the question that matters.
  27. Forum:Circlejerk

    Thread:voss is worse than hitler.

    Thread Author:Plotato

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: voss is worse than hitler.◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Plotato View Post
    Well I wouldn't expect a psuedo intellectual loser who can only make up his mind asking psuedo intellectual questions on a forum dedicated to psuedo intellectual debate to come up with a psuedo intellectual response based off of psuedo intellectual thinking so I lm just gonna leave with the ol classic

    Who asked lmao 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

    evidently the Frenchie is tired of the old Germany invaded France in 11 days joke so I'll drop it for napoleon
    I want more out of you. Until you make it happen you are a great disappointment to your mother and I. Pretty sure those few inches of grey matter between your ears are capable of better trolling than this.
  28. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Arizona Election Proven Stolen

    Thread Author:Voss

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
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    ►►Re: Arizona Election Proven Stolen◄◄

    I think we should think whatever makes us think that we are right. If you think about it thought processes like these need to be controlled to protect society and prevent the collateral expansion of chaos that naturally comes from such concepts. The loss of free thought is a minor sacrifice when compared to the protection gained by society through controlling the radical thought processes created by a free society. At the end of the day any moral leader must acknowledge the only true protection a society can offer to the individual is to remove their freedom before they destroy the freedom of other individuals and that the acceptance of oppression is the true logical conclusion of protecting freedom.
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    ►►Re: Interesting off-site experiences◄◄

    Played a game on MU that was bastard where the town thought they were mafia and the mafia had a team chat. Felt it was a bad game but the concept was good with a lot of interesting potentials.

    I would like to see a game where vote power could be used as a +1 for lynch or a -1 to prevent a lynch. Adds a really cool depth to voting with excellent implications to player manipulation and reads.

    I have a setup concept I have half ass been working on for quite a while with the goal of quantifying win conditions for individuals but that’s something that needs a lot of work.
  30. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:My Perma-Ban on MU

    Thread Author:Helz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Hey, I didn't express my disagreement ^^ it's just that it seems we're running in circles about something that is not positive, to say the least, and I'm not sure that's the best thing for the community.
    I personally don’t think any part of this situation is good for Sc2, MU, or the global mafia community. Part of why I just kept quiet about it for so long.
  31. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:My Perma-Ban on MU

    Thread Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: My Perma-Ban on MU◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    @Helz for me, this settles every aspect of this topic that I think of atm.
    Is there something else that you desire to get out of this?
    I spoke with some of my friends about the issue and got a few laughs. Its pretty ironic I was banned as a racist while trying to deconstruct systemic racism and as my friend pointed out its kinda comical that my reaction to the injustice of the situation seems to be a hard line function of my 'white privilege'

    Unfortunately I think this will just become my new normal. Mafia is just too big a part of my life to walk away from and this situation really taints the experience for me. I doubt I will ever be able to play a game without thinking about this and speaking about how fucked up MU's mods were on the situation. Its just maddening to feel that the entire situation should be able to be handled with a simple conversation. That a formal process exists for that conversation to happen and they have chosen to prevent that from happening.

    It sucks. Its certainly going to make my life worse off and likely going to make me less fun to be around in some respects but I do not think I will ever be able to put this behind me. I do not think anything could ever make this right. They could unban me and publicly state they fucked up and I would still wonder how many other people they have railroaded like this. I very honestly believe they would have scaled it back if I had just come to them like a bitch on my knees but that was never going to happen. I have a weird level of distain for that attitude that people should fear their power in a fucking video game community.

    Its their community and they can do what they want. I am kinda upset that as soon as I was banned this attitude came out that I was an outsider to their community. Like I had not spent years there playing games, writing guides, and participating in discussions but I suppose its a narrative that justifies less consideration for my ban or the due process.

    I am going to make something good out of this in the end. I dont know how yet but if nothing else this situation and its aftermath has highlighted my growing incomitance in communication.
  32. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:My Perma-Ban on MU

    Thread Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: My Perma-Ban on MU◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    Helz what you need to clarify is the usage of the term “black culture”. I don’t think anyone will disagree that the culture in gang-filled ghettos leads to a cycle of crime. But I do disagree with calling that “black culture”, even if a large percentage of black Americans live in such areas.

    You yourself mentioned that things were similar for whites living in similar conditions in some European countries so I know you don’t equate it to being about race. And yet you still called it “black culture”, sort of contradicting yourself? “Asian culture glorifying academics” is just as problematic too. Japanese, Indians, Indonesians, and iraqis all have some united cultural drive to do well in academics? Again I get the stereotype you’re addressing but perhaps you just need to use some different wording?
    Its a pretty cringe term. At the end of the day I was trying to grab many races and examples to highlight a concept and illustrate that the behaviors had nothing to do with race. You could declare... I dont know.. Taco's illegal in south Texas and in doing so target a demographic. It holds zero moral or ethical bearing. The subject of 'black culture' came about because the conversation started on the point of disparities in prison populations as related to African Americans.

    You are right that I could have worded that better. Its honestly not 'black culture' at all but rather 'a' culture. Assigning a race to a culture is absolutely ignorant in many respects and not what I intended.
  33. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:My Perma-Ban on MU

    Thread Author:Helz

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    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    I think it would be much more beneficial if you could explain it rather succinctly and try to keep yourself to maybe like 2 sentences or 50 words to make your point actually coherent.
    I think I should separate what I was trying to say on discord from what my beliefs are. I was kinda rambling about both in this thread.

    Before where Ozy's chat log started as simply as I could say it I said that some things attributed as systemic racism are cultural in nature. Anyone with access to the discord should be able to search it and find the quote easily enough.
    I spoke about multiple racial stereotypes referencing cultural drives to their origins specifically to highlight how behaviors were not racial. My opinion is that racism holds the belief that a literal race of people is born with detrimental qualities which I find absurd (although I am on the nurture side of the nature vs nurture fence.) I spoke about disproportionate racial distributions in the NBA to underscore the point in a non-derogatorily context pointing out that nobody is calling the NBA racist and that cultural drives push members of a culture to excel in sports rather than racial qualities.

    For what I believe something I have been chewing on over the last year is if laws targeting 'black culture' exist to target race or if they exist to target the culture. I feel it is a small but very significant difference in intention. I brought up segregation as an example to how laws can make non-immoral behavior illegal because I felt my point was being construed as 'Black culture leads to immoral behavior.' For one of the more overt modern day examples consider the ongoing fight of schools making wearing du-rags against policy. There is nothing intrinsically 'racial' about a du-rag. But culturally it overtly disproportionately targets African American men over any other demographic. As simply as I can say it in a natural society laws/rules are created to establish formal punishments for taboos while in our society we have laws and rules punishing norms in a targeted way which I see as attributed as systemic racism. Deconstructing how and why this is done is important to understanding what the problem actually is without cutting to some useless thought process of 'Theres a room of old racist white people to blame.' Creating laws and punishments that target a demographic is absolutely a thing (although as I said I have been wondering for some time if the intention is racial or cultural)

    A substantial amount of my thoughts on this matter are not original. If you are interested here is a UN publication with lots of solid data: https://www.sentencingproject.org/wp...isparities.pdf
    Here is a study by the ACLU titled "RACIALLY TARGETED ARRESTS IN THE ERA OF MARIJUANA REFORM" which pretty overtly outlines disparity of enforcement. https://www.aclu.org/report/tale-two...rijuana-reform
    Here is multiple study's by the united states sentencing commission that flatly finds "Violence in an offender’s criminal history does not appear to account for any of the demographic differences in sentencing." https://www.ussc.gov/research/resear...ces-sentencing

    Theres truckloads of data highlighting that even without targeted laws in practice African Americans and Men get hit harder in both sentencing as well as being charged with what crimes. I feel like thats a point everyone can accept. To take it a step further there is also tons of data on laws existing that seem to target African Americans (although once again, I would point out they are cultural in nature and not saying 'X color of skin = this action') We like to think that segregation ended but I just see it as less overt now. If you are interested here is an article that outlines what and how laws are used to suppress voting for racial demographics: https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...can-democracy/
    And here is a publication from the Vera Institute of Justice essentially taking the position I regurgitated: https://www.vera.org/downloads/publi...isparities.pdf
    Its key takeaway spells it out pretty plainly "Racial disparities in the criminal justice system are no accident, but rather are rooted in a history of oppression and discriminatory decision making that have deliberately targeted black people and helped create an inaccurate picture of crime that deceptively links them with criminality."
    "Discriminatory criminal justice policies and practices have historically and unjustifiably targeted black people since the Reconstruction Era, including Black Codes, vagrancy laws, and convict leasing, all of which were used to continue post-slavery control over newly-freed people."

    I could keep going but hopefully this will clarify exactly what I am saying and how I drew the conclusions I did. When I studied criminal justice I grew fond of the take cultural criminology had simply because it centered on how the intention behind the action defines the morality of the action. Passing a law to make something illegal does not making the now illegal action immoral in any way and when you criminalize the norms of a culture you disproportionately target a demographic. Yeah, I do think 'black culture glorifies crime' which is a racial take but I hold that view in context to aspects of that culture being made criminal. I honestly dislike the position that segregation is in the past and holds no bearing on present day conversations on systemic racism and see it as a step in the wrong direction. I don't think any part of my beliefs are unreasonable or hateful and if anyone thinks they are I am more than open to hearing why.
  34. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:My Perma-Ban on MU

    Thread Author:Helz

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    I have not responded or kept up with the thread because I went out to work on an oil rig in New Mexico. I will try to take some time and more clearly explain my thoughts when I have time but I am hurting for sleep right now. I am sure with a bit of time I can convey my points without it getting muddled to hell and I am sure the reason they were is that I had such difficulty even looking at this situation or thread sober. It’s effecting me much more than it should and spilling into my work this week but finally talking about it has helped.

    I will say I feel MU and the MU moderation team should be looked at as separate things in my situation and even if the moderators have a highly questionable culture of moderation and make bad calls it does not mean MU is not a good community. Just look at how shitty America’s leaders are but it’s still a pretty nice place to visit. The championships and the articles there are excellent for the global community and tons of the people there are genuinely awesome.
  35. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:My Perma-Ban on MU

    Thread Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: My Perma-Ban on MU◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Those racist laws are no longer a thing. Segregation law is a law of the past. How do they affect today?

    And to be safe, it was supposed to address #18, #19, #20 - correct?
    I did not write it in response to those posts but yes, I felt my position was not understood.

    In relation to how it effects us today its an issue of systemic racism. How the systems that govern how society functions favor races on a basic level. You should differentiate what objectively exists vs my world view given this conversation is all about my world view but as to what objectively exists you can google it easy enough. In practice my understanding is that its exercised within sentencing.

    https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPa...iv=4&id=&page=
    Decent point on the subject although its on the federal level while atrocities are more commonly committed on the state level.

    You could also just look at the 'Guilty of being poor' movement and everything thats focused on within our society. If you want to take a deep dive into either issue might be worth a separate topic but these are very valid issues that genuinely exist in American society now and not 60 years ago.
  36. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:My Perma-Ban on MU

    Thread Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: My Perma-Ban on MU◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    I still don't see how a law from 60 years ago affects the prison populations today.

    Don't you really see how many inferences one has to make to even attempt to follow your thoughts process? Either that or I'm more dumb than I ever realized.

    I'm sorry that my best efforts of advising to speak understandably fell on deaf ears.
    Yeah. I have trouble in some respects with conveying how I made connections.

    Racist people made laws making natural behavior criminal for specific races
    Natural behavior forced to be criminal is not immoral or unethical
    The example of segregation outlines that overtly
    My words in MU debate were about how crime culture results in a measurable disparity in racial distribution of prison populations
    This is more understandable as not racist when you consider its resulting from laws targeting cultural of predominate racial distributions
    It is logical to recognize that such laws did not go from overtly existing to not existing at all

    Sorry if I am terrible at connecting thoughts sometimes. Maybe its not great that I spend so much time in my own head and translating between the things I think and how to understand how I think can be a bit much. Hopefully that makes the connection
  37. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:My Perma-Ban on MU

    Thread Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: My Perma-Ban on MU◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    I hope your confusion about my confusion will motivate you to speak more understandable in the future. Nobody is out to get you.

    Just to be clear, that mention of a law that was 60 years ago - is it supposed to address anything that MM or Oberon or oops said? As far as I understand, they're addressing the "black culture makes you go to prison" argument? I don't think a law from 60 years ago is relevant if so.
    Yeah. I do not understand the relevance of making my point look less rational based on the time line but when speaking about a concept of systemic racism and referencing how laws were weaponized against a race within a society it is relevant. Shift the level of how overtly its used and you get a recipe for disparity in prison populations.

    Put that in context to my statements and my voiced position can be better understood. Unless you believe racism in laws went from obligating who someone could date or what pubic drinking fountain they could use to not existing at all its logical there was some level of de-escalation and such laws still exist that are not... however old it takes to invalidate my point.

    I am not sure if gaslighting me makes MU look better but I can say I do not appreciate it. I acknowledge my issues with mental health but flatly stating inappropriate action was taken against me by a community does not equate to irrational paranoia and framing it as such is not classy. Be careful with crossing that line man. Although I do view you as a friend if you choose to keep going down that road I doubt its going to look good for either you or MU. I can accept that my judgment is clouded by emotion but I do not think any reasonable mind would say I got a fair shake in line with community guidelines.

    Refusing to give me the email to make an appeal was intentional
    Ignoring a rule that prevents carrying punishments from their debate chat into other areas of the site was intentional
    Saying they 'thought I was a troll' does not add up given my history as a member making guides and coordinating cross community events
    Shutting down community discussions while saying its up to me to talk to them was some two faced shit
    Ignoring everything I said to them and just quoting my words out of context while refusing to give me the chat log prevented me from even having grounds for a fair appeal

    At the end of the day Perma banning me from everything with years of being a good standing member while shutting down conversation on the issue from myself to them or from the community on the subject and preventing an appeal reflects bias. If we carry your logic forward and I am just a paranoid loony who is being told what he wants to hear by multiple communities and nothing is wrong what justifies any one of those individual actions by MU?
  38. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:My Perma-Ban on MU

    Thread Author:Helz

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    By now I think it should be clear that it's your fault?

    Whenever there's a misinterpretation, I feel like it's the responsibility of the one talking to prevent that. That's my general take that some agree and others disagree. But in this scenario a large majority seemed to not get you, even here on SC2Mafia. Yes? Idk because it's still too complicated all for me.

    I wish to point you towards Importance of Simplification, again.
    Especially:
    Sometimes we inadvertently write sentences that can be interpreted in more than one way. When something's written in simple manner, there's less chance for ambiguity.

    Tbh, I personally would appreciate if you provided specific examples to go along with your future statements. Like "The most overt example is segregation." is not a specific example. For all I know you're pulling it out of your rear.
    Or this "When norms are punished it doesnt equate to the individual being immoral but rather the system being immoral." - it literally doesn't tell me anything and idk wtf you're talking about.
    Similarly to how in your "debate" you link to a study link but fail to give any form of summary of how you came to your inference. How's anyone to take it serious and not nefarious? Even now idk how a study that speaks about "Social categorization occurs spontaneously, without much thought to our part" to you doing a social categorization yourself.

    While on the topic, pulling a Jordan Peterson doesn't give you credibility either. It loses you it.

    I just can't stress the importance of speaking understandable enough.
    Uhh.. I am not even sure where to start with this one.

    Segregation laws were laws making it criminal to do basic stuff. Like "Being black and dating a white woman"

    My point that calling that a crime does not make the individual immoral but rather the system is pretty clear. I can provide specific examples but I feel like its kinda stupid for me to do so. I am making a very valid and clear position here about how saying something is a crime does not mean its derogatory to the individual while also pointing out that my argument was not hateful to a racial group simply because I was arguing that systemic racism created through laws was itself immoral.

    If you would like I could go grab some law books and dig some stuff up for you but honestly.. just.. wtf dude? I do not understand why you keep reframing the issue as irrational or that the entirety of the MU community supports it. If its a big deal to you I can PM you on the subject in a few weeks when I am back from work but I think there is a very real issue going on here.
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    ►►How many chances should a person be given?◄◄

    Paris Wilder got killed recently trying to kill some cops. The guy had been arrested 40 times with 23 felony's and was on bond for 2 more felonys with 2 more felony warrants.

    This is kind extreme but begs a very real question of 'how many chances are too many?' How many are not enough? Its not cool to throw someone in a cage without the chance for redemption but where do you draw that line and how do you justify that?
  40. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:The meaning of Intelligence

    Thread Author:Helz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plotato View Post
    you are replying to a copypasta in sincere earnest which is both funny and sad at the same time so im going to opine a actual serious food for thought for you wannabe nerds to consume

    - do you have to be "right" to be intelligent? for instance, science is all about theory of which we can try to prove or disprove. just because we "prove" something doesn't mean its "right". that's why in science we never call anything "proof" but "theory". a good scientist should be able to apply a logic to reach a conclusion, and be able to either buttress or disprove his theory with logic. evidently we can be wrong and yet intelligent at the same time. yes? no? maybe?
    The question borders on rhetorical but obviously no. Einstein rejected the basics of quantum physics famously saying "God does not play dice" yet he was intelligent enough for his name to be tied to the very concept of intelligence.

    A strong sign of intelligence I look for in people is the ability to exercise lateral thought. As a society we glorify depth in vertical thinking but innovation holds greater value in many respects. The difference in brilliance to dive deeply into a concept vs discovering a concept is substantial.

    Over the last two years something I have been struggling with is why people are so closed minded. How its so normal to see any position that is not directly in line with the common thought process as opposed to it. Although I see metacognition as a construct that can effectively create and increase intelligence something I have recently been wondering about is where the will and drive to do so comes from. Some people just want to lift, some people just want to fuck and some people just want to understand. But I don't understand why and I want to. Something is there that I can not quite see but I think I can figure it out if I have enough time. Or maybe I am just so far gone I just think I can and can't recognize my own insanity : )
  41. ►►Re: im asian so life has always been hard on me. but life has been much harder on my father...◄◄

    The lesson here is that reverse image search is a thing that exists
  42. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:My Perma-Ban on MU

    Thread Author:Helz

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    Something that keeps getting misinterpreted about the point I made is the idea of what a crime is.

    It is one thing to say a culture causes people to do a crime- like rob a store or sell drugs

    It is something totally different to say laws were created that made normal behaviors a crime. In sociology there are Norms, Taboos and Laws. Naturally Laws are made to enforce punishments on behaviors that are taboo but when they are instead enforced on norms it does not equate crime with immoral or unethical behavior. The most overt example is segregation.

    Cultural criminology is an entire field of study that deals with what a 'crime' means to the individual. When norms are punished it doesnt equate to the individual being immoral but rather the system being immoral.

    Probably the wrong place to say this but I feel like people are looking at my statements and thinking I am suggesting something in individuals culture make them more likely to have immoral or unethical behavior which is just not the case.

    I feel a little better after making this thread. Something I realized is that more than access to a game or a community what I really felt I lost when I was banned was my credibility. I think thats why it feels a little better to talk about it. MU did ban me but they very intentionally have shut down conversation on the issue while also making me look like something I consider the most reprehensible beliefs that exist. It made me question how far gone I am and if I am something I hate on a basic level.

    Its been nice to see how many people and communities have reached out to me but I really do feel like something is very wrong within the mafia community. The amount of people who have expressed overt fear of even being seen to say something negative about MU is pretty crazy. The majority of the conversations I have start with people requesting I never mention their name with their thoughts. Its an intentional culture of fear mongering which is just stupid. This is a video game people play to relax and meet friends but somehow they created a power structure and weaponized it to the point most people are afraid to even publicly say when they think they made a poor decision. Thats pretty fucking crazy on a very basic level and acting like it is normal is itself wrong.

    I don't think anything will change in my situation. But something should change in how the global community is afraid to even speak about the site that hosts the championships.

    If anyone from MU ever reads this as a human being I would like to convey a very sincere fuck you. Labeling someone a racist without giving a fuck if they are or not is really shitty. Shutting down community discussion on the issue while pretending you are following established rules is disgusting. Making your community afraid to even talk about your judgement as a moderator of a video game is ridiculous and the community deserves better.
  43. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:My Perma-Ban on MU

    Thread Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: My Perma-Ban on MU◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    I mean, if you wish I can send you from when https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-41692593 was posted like over 36h earlier. But it talked about Pearson, books, information, voting, politics. I really don't see the relevance though.

    You did say "I desperately need to just go to sleep at this point, but I feel the need to point out how religions and power structures are two very different things" just before you left in that convo. But it's like 26 hours earlier and the only related on the topic post.
    I really feel like the convo that was 26-36h before when this convo started is an entirely different one.
    I was specifically looking for the statements they grabbed out of context. Although the ignored my point on Caucasian Europeans they grabbed every mention of a racial stereotype to call me a racist. I was exhausted and very drunk but I very specifically remember mentioning the stereotypes in the context of them not being racial but cultural in nature and flatly saying so immediately before or after the statement.

    Although I do not think it really matters. As frustrating as it is I just do not think they have any intention of looking at the situation. In my opinion calling someone a racist is the worst thing you can say about someone short of a pedophile or a rapist. Its not about a video game or a community to me. Regardless of if I am ignorant, insensitive or flatly wrong I held that conversation in good faith in the area it was suppose to be held. They circumvented rules established to prevent punishments from carrying over to other parts of the site and I went from having 0 infractions to being permabanned without a single warning.

    If the issue was that they truly thought I was a racist it could be resolved but they just flatly do not give a shit. One thing I have been obsessing over is why. I never had any personal problems with any of them. It just does not make sense to me why they intentionally avoided giving me access to the muheadmod@gmail.com email while shutting down the communities discussion of the issue and telling them I had access to it.

    I get that communities can self regulate as they see fit but MU has a duty to the global community because they host the championship. They should be held to a standard in my opinion.
  44. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:My Perma-Ban on MU

    Thread Author:Helz

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    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    i get what you were saying and i get why they got triggered. what i am saying next is based on shit happening half a world away, same shit but different.

    imo the thing that exacerbates incarceration isn't black culture in large (or any races culture), it's just straight up being poor with no education which puts people in positions where they have to resort to thuggery. it just so happens black people are disproportionately more poor so they get blasted into the limelight. i see this on basically a decade cycle because of my towns economic booms/recession (industrial town, currently "booming" due to a hydrogen plant being constructed). When it's doing bad and rent is cheap, scum of all races come crawling out of the wood works.
    I do agree with you. Opportunity is a large driving factor for any individual. I feel like it would be a topic for serious discussion/debate. Although our mods actually use their brains I am not sure about holding a conversation on systemic racism in the FM section of the forum.
  45. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:My Perma-Ban on MU

    Thread Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: My Perma-Ban on MU◄◄

    Looks like there was a rule specifically stating you could not kick someone from the discord for what happens in the debate channel at the time of my ban. Maybe I should have focused that more given Dyachei likes to act like a robot.
  46. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:My Perma-Ban on MU

    Thread Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: My Perma-Ban on MU◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    I could have told you that beforehand. Ohh wait.. I did.
    But tbh, this makes sense for their ever-lasting "zero tolerance on bigotry".

    But was it bigotry though? Idk. I never bothered to look into it due to how incomprehensible the text is for me personally. But a thing of note here is that everyone who bothered commenting on it agreed that it was. Everyone except me and SJ - and I didn't even read.
    "I was banned under a zero tolerance*policy for racism and bigotry.
    For a statement to be racist it must be prejudiced or hateful towards*a race
    [02-Apr-21 12:03 PM] Helz#8260
    Lower brackets of socioeconomic status in Europe for Caucations hold every bit as much of a ratio in prison as american jails do for African Americans

    [02-Apr-21 12:03 PM] Helz#8260
    Its not racial, Its cultural*

    My statements*were taken as hateful towards*African Americans but you can clearly see here its*not a racial openion. I very flatly say "Its not racial, its cultural." I was cut off while typing but was about to post drunken ramblings on how systemic racism was created by laws being passed which targeted African Americans. To say that does not exist is to say that segregation never happened and that the entire field of cultural criminology is hateful.
    For a statement*to be bigotry*it must be obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief or opinion. Any time I enter a discussion I am open to changing my view (which is the entire point of having it in the first place)
    [02-Apr-21 12:28 PM] Helz#8260
    Am I wrong? If I am please tell me why

    [02-Apr-21 12:28 PM] Helz#8260
    I am making points with reasoning

    [02-Apr-21 12:28 PM] Helz#8260
    I would like to see some reasoning to why my points should be invalidated

    This is clearly reflected in chat. I genuinely was asking for feedback and interacting in a channel designated for such discussions. I did so in good faith and in the belief I was acting within the rules and regulations of the community and had no intention of spreading hate.
    I would again ask you to consider my ban. I do not understand why I was treated as a 'troll' and intentionally withheld access to this chat or why I have not been afforded*the opportunity to speak in my defence sense its been acknowledged*that I am not if there is no bias but I strongly believe the actions taken against me are not in line with the letter or the spirit of your rules. I am not asking for any favors, I am only asking you to follow the established process and finally give me an appeal. I do not believe its possible to maintain that my statements were hateful unless you take them without regard*for context. Even if you feel my words are terrible I am at worst very ignorant and not hateful or bigoted.
    R/S
    Helz"

    Sent that. The chat log you gave started mid way though the conversation but I appreciate it. Maybe I have lost more marbles than I thought if everyone sees my position as hateful but I dont. I genuinely do not see how a good faith examination of the situation can draw that conclusion though.

    And if I really am just an ignorant un-woke racist why shut down conversation on the subject to the community? Why intentionally avoid giving me an email to appeal or try to write me off as a troll? If I am a racist and they are correct they should be justified in their actions and not ashamed to speak on the subject.

    I guess what finally drove me to make this thread is that I am tired of loosing sleep on the subject. I can not play a game of mafia or work on my guide without getting a sick fucked up feeling and getting upset. One of my many flaws as a person is that I never let things go and this is a much bigger deal to me than it should be. Im honestly going to keep fucking with this until the day I die on principal and my life is worse off for it being a thing.

    I do appreciate you spending a bit of time on the issue though. The absolute disregard and apathy show by the MU mods disgusts me and I can not help but wonder how many other people have been railroaded like this. If I am not genuinely being treated differently their moderation culture is really fucked up. At the end of the day mods are not the community, they just exist to protect the community and although I love many respects of MU that attitude is something that has kept me out of it.
  47. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:My Perma-Ban on MU

    Thread Author:Helz

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    76
    Views
    2,196

    ►►Re: My Perma-Ban on MU◄◄

    I guess that came out half ass coherent. Still so pissed off about it I can't so much as think about signing up for a game without obsessing over the issue

    -edit
    for context that screen shot was part of my email to them. They had nothing to say.
  48. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:My Perma-Ban on MU

    Thread Author:Helz

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    76
    Views
    2,196

    ►►My Perma-Ban on MU◄◄

    Its been a while and I probably should have made this thread long ago. I honestly didn't simply because I believed the MU staff wanted the issue to die from public sight before giving me an appeal but it looks like they just have no intention of ever giving me an appeal.

    I was perma-banned in the middle of a conversation in the discord of MU. A few things are of note:

    -I was in the Serious discussion / Debate section of the discord (which is the appropriate place to have the discussion)
    -In years as a member of their site I never once got an infraction (although the community voiced that they assumed this is taken into consideration Dyachei flatly said they give no consideration to prior conduct)
    -There was no warning of any kind from moderators or so much as a hint that the conversation was considered a breach of their rules
    -The conversation was driven into a taboo subject intentionally by moderators and other members
    -I had to report myself to request an appeal and I was flatly denied without any consideration. At this point I overtly voiced I had no access to any other method of communication and was not given the MU email to appeal (as their established community guidelines suggest is their norm)
    -When I pointed out I had no access to the conversation log and they were taking my statements out of context my communications were also ignored
    -After the fact conversations on the issue by the community were cut off. Multiple citing the banned (me) should/can email the moderators to discuss the issue. I then reported myself again saying if I have that right I would like to exercise it and that was straight up ignored.
    -Superjack then argued with them enough on the issue they finally gave him the email address to give to me (muheadmod@gmail.com) and when I emailed them and explained my position I was told "We aren’t interested in discussing your opinions further. It’s about people being offended by what you’re saying and what their interpretation of your words is, not what your intention behind the words may be."
    -I then pointed out how the definition of racism is 'prejudiced or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group', how in multiple respects this definition does not fit even given their own responses and how if their ban qualifications are 'bigoted or racist' and I am neither that the punishment should not apply. I never got a response
    -Ossie spoke with them on my behalf and although I was not allowed to speak in my defense or given any context to the statements they declared racist they did admit to intentionally denying me an appeal because they thought I was a troll. I do not see how that is possible given I wrote articles for MU (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...-%28by-Helz%29) and had worked with them to establish cross community games with 0 infractions over many years but I suppose they had to justify their behavior somehow.
    -At this point I have probably asked them 10+ times if I would be allowed to publish that article I have been working on for years with no response which is just petty. Simply having some balls and saying no is something I could at least respect rather than waiting to see how good it is before voicing some moral / ethical grounds.

    I should have made this thread a long time ago. I honestly just thought the only thing they gave a shit about was saving face and if I didn't I would have a better shot at getting fair treatment. To this day every point I have made has been flatly disregarded. I have not been allowed to speak in my defense and I was very intentionally not given the ability to do so even though it was their justification for closing conversations with the community. The point I was banned discussing was that racial stereotypes are cultural in nature and that racist individuals targeted African American culture with laws to create systemic racism. There is nothing hateful in this view and at best I am ignorant which objectively means I am not racist by definition and their perma-ban is inappropriate.

    I will also point out Amy has a long standing reputation within the global community for being heavy handed and taking inappropriate moderation actions. It was a sick level of comical to talk about my situation to other communities and hear over and over "I bet that was Amy' without mentioning any names or even knowing it was Amy who pushed my perma-ban through.

    All I can really say is this:
    Name: MU.JPG
Views: 21
Size: 77.5 KB
    I could accept being denied on an appeal but not being given even the context to what I am accused of or so much as the email-address to make an appeal is pretty fucked up. My mind is not gone yet and I would genuinely like the opportunity to represent our community before that happens. As the host of a global competition they are equally held accountable to the global community and sandbagging people at will is just a reflection of overt corruption.

    All that said- I would appreciate either poking them to just follow their established process or telling me I am genuinely wrong so I can stop loosing sleep over this issue. I am really sick of feeling like shit over this and its not even about a video game.
  49. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:texas

    Thread Author:oops_ur_dead

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    32
    Views
    906

    ►►Re: texas◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    To make what happen?
    Last night was one of those nights. No telling what was going through my head there.

    I swear I am not totally insane yet : )
  50. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:texas

    Thread Author:oops_ur_dead

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    32
    Views
    906

    ►►Re: texas◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Hello!
    We need to make this happen
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