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a post is needed for the 2nd half of the day phase

so I am sharing this

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJhF0L7pfo8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJhF0L7pfo8[/URL]

[SIZE=1]too lazy to go looking for the youtube BBcode[/SIZE]

a post is needed for the 2nd half of the day phase

so I am sharing this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJhF0L7pfo8

too lazy to go looking for the youtube BBcode

speaking of which

a town sweep wherein the 3ps are wiped out first and then the mafia

is really impressive on a site like this

speaking of which

a town sweep wherein the 3ps are wiped out first and then the mafia

is really impressive on a site like this

one of these days a game will be so conclusively swept and the host forbids conceding that there will have been a genuine game of mafia run in a game of mafia without it being originally planned

too bad this game will likely be too short for that

one of these days a game will be so conclusively swept and the host forbids conceding that there will have been a genuine game of mafia run in a game of mafia without it being originally planned

too bad this game will likely be too short for that

[QUOTE=ikarusdk;986950]I do think the game is over at this point though, so we might just be over thinking it.[/QUOTE]

true, but like

what the hell else am I going to think about lmao

there is no more daily dosage of devoting brain power to reading specific people

Originally Posted by ikarusdk

I do think the game is over at this point though, so we might just be over thinking it.

true, but like

what the hell else am I going to think about lmao

there is no more daily dosage of devoting brain power to reading specific people

But really it doesn't make a difference to me unless we somehow tie.

But really it doesn't make a difference to me unless we somehow tie.

In which case I think the best way we can play this day out is if we chop Yoshida and Ikarus announces whoever they're jailing.

In which case I think the best way we can play this day out is if we chop Yoshida and Ikarus announces whoever they're jailing.

Although actually voting out Yoshida effectively makes Ikarus an alignment cop of whoever they jail.

Although actually voting out Yoshida effectively makes Ikarus an alignment cop of whoever they jail.

I did a few mechanical hypotheticals in my head and I don't think there's any meaningful difference between chopping Stellaria and Yoshida, except for where Stellaria somehow happens to be town.

In which case, in theory, it would be better to know that sooner rather than later as we'll have more heads to bounce ideas off with. Leaving it for last will likely mean the mafia kill whoever isn't Varcron/Zenon that is the biggest threat to them (or whichever kill they think they can WIFOM best). Yoshida might as well be effectively non-existent because in the case we're wrong about Stellaria the mafia have already gotten a gun, and Yoshida can't give guns to the same people. Thus, its only just a matter of which day they are automatically chopped because outed wolf.
[MENTION=36817]ikarusdk[/MENTION] your opinion on this?

I did a few mechanical hypotheticals in my head and I don't think there's any meaningful difference between chopping Stellaria and Yoshida, except for where Stellaria somehow happens to be town.

In which case, in theory, it would be better to know that sooner rather than later as we'll have more heads to bounce ideas off with. Leaving it for last will likely mean the mafia kill whoever isn't Varcron/Zenon that is the biggest threat to them (or whichever kill they think they can WIFOM best). Yoshida might as well be effectively non-existent because in the case we're wrong about Stellaria the mafia have already gotten a gun, and Yoshida can't give guns to the same people. Thus, its only just a matter of which day they are automatically chopped because outed wolf.
@ikarusdk your opinion on this?

[QUOTE=MartinGG99;986936]This seems preety good. Although I would like a bit of clarification on Nancy, in case you have any insights about them I haven't noticed. I read them preety highly based on similar thoughts at specific moments of yesterday but also tonally at times. However, I don't see them as being above ikarusdk's town play so far.

[s]One major problem with this though is that, as much we would like to try, we can't vote out Loldebite.[/s][/QUOTE]

Also apparently Zenon is missing from the list.

Originally Posted by MartinGG99

This seems preety good. Although I would like a bit of clarification on Nancy, in case you have any insights about them I haven't noticed. I read them preety highly based on similar thoughts at specific moments of yesterday but also tonally at times. However, I don't see them as being above ikarusdk's town play so far.

One major problem with this though is that, as much we would like to try, we can't vote out Loldebite.

Also apparently Zenon is missing from the list.

[QUOTE=Renegade;986913]Frinckles flipping red

+Scumpoints for Varcron. Unfortunately at the EOD2, Buster quickly followed a vote on Yoshida after Frinckles voted.
+Scumpoints for Yoshida. I think Frinckles was okay with bussing Yoshida D2 and D4. Frinckles+Stellaria voting Yoshida as a bussing attempt fmpov.
+Scumpoints for Stellaria.

Stellaria > Yoshida > Varcron > MartinGG99 > ikarusdk > Loldebite/Nancy Drew 39/Renegade[/QUOTE]

This seems preety good. Although I would like a bit of clarification on Nancy, in case you have any insights about them I haven't noticed. I read them preety highly based on similar thoughts at specific moments of yesterday but also tonally at times. However, I don't see them as being above ikarusdk's town play so far.

[s]One major problem with this though is that, as much we would like to try, we can't vote out Loldebite.[/s]

Originally Posted by Renegade

Frinckles flipping red

+Scumpoints for Varcron. Unfortunately at the EOD2, Buster quickly followed a vote on Yoshida after Frinckles voted.
+Scumpoints for Yoshida. I think Frinckles was okay with bussing Yoshida D2 and D4. Frinckles+Stellaria voting Yoshida as a bussing attempt fmpov.
+Scumpoints for Stellaria.

Stellaria > Yoshida > Varcron > MartinGG99 > ikarusdk > Loldebite/Nancy Drew 39/Renegade

This seems preety good. Although I would like a bit of clarification on Nancy, in case you have any insights about them I haven't noticed. I read them preety highly based on similar thoughts at specific moments of yesterday but also tonally at times. However, I don't see them as being above ikarusdk's town play so far.

One major problem with this though is that, as much we would like to try, we can't vote out Loldebite.

If it needs to be said, I don't have a gun. Otherwise I would've shot Yoshida already.

If it needs to be said, I don't have a gun. Otherwise I would've shot Yoshida already.

[QUOTE=MartinGG99;986912][vote]yoshida[/vote]

The biggest suspect you can find now knowing that Frinckles was putting his slot at risk on Day 3. For those who weren't in the game back then, Yoshida at one point urged Renegade (who had a gun gifted from Yoshida) to shoot and furthermore shoot Frinckles at one point. He also came up with the idea of there being a bomb kinda all out of nowhere, as if he had TMI that not only bomb existed but also Frinckles was the bomb.[/QUOTE]

Here are some of the quotes I can pull. Underlines were added by me, and one or two of these quotes might not be chronologically ordered.

[spoiler=wall of quotes and comments]
[QUOTE=yoshida;985697][QUOTE=Gikkle;985696]I'm going to ignore frinckles for now and focus on solving the three people in the carol, and maybe think about possible partners[/QUOTE]

2 + 2 last PR is bomber. Possibility of witch existing is almost none. [U]Mafia caroler gambit coming from Gikkle makes sense after Jailor reveal. Same could be said for Frinckles too. There is no point in looking at your carol right now.[/u][/QUOTE]

earliest mention of bomb(er)

[QUOTE=yoshida;985706][QUOTE=Frinckles;985705]You think so? If CE is picking anti-town roles bomb is usually anti-mafia. [U]Then again if GS is in the game and somwbody misfired we would be fucked.[/U][/QUOTE]

Existence of a potential Gunsmith tells me there has to be a bomber. CE always wants a fast game in this setup with no skips.[/QUOTE]

has to explain how he came up with bomb(er) when being prodded by Frinckles -- who we know flipped mafia bomb(er), and Frinckles also mentions Gunsmith and he mentions how if the town misused the gun it would be very bad for the town

we didn't know Yoshida was gunsmith at this time

[QUOTE=yoshida;985727][QUOTE=Renegade;985716]I'm only shooting if there is a consensus.[/QUOTE]

In that case, [U]I vote for you to shoot[/U].

You shooting will prove the existence of Gunsmith.

It will give you town points.

There are other PR's out there so Caroler dying for this isn't a big loss. [U]You not shooting and a miselim today will put town in a very bad spot[/U].

Both are legit good flips. [U]Frinckles [/U]mafia flip increases my confidence in Martin or Buster being mafia. [U]Gikkle [/U]flipping mafia will make me look at Nancy next.

[U]I don't think they are bomber[/U].[/QUOTE]

Arguing for Renegade to shoot one of Frinckles/Gikkle, and that not-shooting isn't an option.

[QUOTE=yoshida;986075]For clarity; what I mean is there might be a town caroler out there hiding. If Frinckles doesn't flip as caroler then we can actually consider the carol Gikkle had? Very low chance but possible[/QUOTE]

Yoshida is suggesting the possibility that town caroler is hiding, which is suggesting that Mafia-Bomber (Frinckles) is fake-claiming being town caroler

[QUOTE=yoshida;986070][QUOTE=Renegade;986062]A Scum!Frinckles is still totally a possibility and I could see him making this play.[/QUOTE]

[U]shoot him then[/U]. he might very well be mafia caroler. frinckles/gikkle is [U]W/W or W/V here[/U]. frinckles thinking he will be spewed town after a gikkle elim is also bad.[/QUOTE]

Arguing that Frinckles should be shot by Renegade and also that Yoshida is certain that Frinckles is always a Wolf/Mafia here

[QUOTE=yoshida;986077]I don't see any other way. [U]Shoot Frinckles > Vote Gikkle[/U]

If the gun fails, we let people decide between the two.[/QUOTE]

Arguing to shoot Frinckles again.

[/spoiler]

Originally Posted by MartinGG99

-vote yoshida

The biggest suspect you can find now knowing that Frinckles was putting his slot at risk on Day 3. For those who weren't in the game back then, Yoshida at one point urged Renegade (who had a gun gifted from Yoshida) to shoot and furthermore shoot Frinckles at one point. He also came up with the idea of there being a bomb kinda all out of nowhere, as if he had TMI that not only bomb existed but also Frinckles was the bomb.

Here are some of the quotes I can pull. Underlines were added by me, and one or two of these quotes might not be chronologically ordered.

Spoiler : wall of quotes and comments :

Originally Posted by yoshida

Originally Posted by Gikkle

I'm going to ignore frinckles for now and focus on solving the three people in the carol, and maybe think about possible partners

2 + 2 last PR is bomber. Possibility of witch existing is almost none. Mafia caroler gambit coming from Gikkle makes sense after Jailor reveal. Same could be said for Frinckles too. There is no point in looking at your carol right now.

earliest mention of bomb(er)

Originally Posted by yoshida

Originally Posted by Frinckles

You think so? If CE is picking anti-town roles bomb is usually anti-mafia. Then again if GS is in the game and somwbody misfired we would be fucked.

Existence of a potential Gunsmith tells me there has to be a bomber. CE always wants a fast game in this setup with no skips.

has to explain how he came up with bomb(er) when being prodded by Frinckles -- who we know flipped mafia bomb(er), and Frinckles also mentions Gunsmith and he mentions how if the town misused the gun it would be very bad for the town

we didn't know Yoshida was gunsmith at this time

Originally Posted by yoshida

Originally Posted by Renegade

I'm only shooting if there is a consensus.

In that case, I vote for you to shoot.

You shooting will prove the existence of Gunsmith.

It will give you town points.

There are other PR's out there so Caroler dying for this isn't a big loss. You not shooting and a miselim today will put town in a very bad spot.

Both are legit good flips. Frinckles mafia flip increases my confidence in Martin or Buster being mafia. Gikkle flipping mafia will make me look at Nancy next.

I don't think they are bomber.

Arguing for Renegade to shoot one of Frinckles/Gikkle, and that not-shooting isn't an option.

Originally Posted by yoshida

For clarity; what I mean is there might be a town caroler out there hiding. If Frinckles doesn't flip as caroler then we can actually consider the carol Gikkle had? Very low chance but possible

Yoshida is suggesting the possibility that town caroler is hiding, which is suggesting that Mafia-Bomber (Frinckles) is fake-claiming being town caroler

Originally Posted by yoshida

Originally Posted by Renegade

A Scum!Frinckles is still totally a possibility and I could see him making this play.

shoot him then. he might very well be mafia caroler. frinckles/gikkle is W/W or W/V here. frinckles thinking he will be spewed town after a gikkle elim is also bad.

Arguing that Frinckles should be shot by Renegade and also that Yoshida is certain that Frinckles is always a Wolf/Mafia here

Originally Posted by yoshida

I don't see any other way. Shoot Frinckles > Vote Gikkle

If the gun fails, we let people decide between the two.

Arguing to shoot Frinckles again.

[vote]yoshida[/vote]

The biggest suspect you can find now knowing that Frinckles was putting his slot at risk on Day 3. For those who weren't in the game back then, Yoshida at one point urged Renegade (who had a gun gifted from Yoshida) to shoot and furthermore shoot Frinckles at one point. He also came up with the idea of there being a bomb kinda all out of nowhere, as if he had TMI that not only bomb existed but also Frinckles was the bomb.

-vote yoshida

The biggest suspect you can find now knowing that Frinckles was putting his slot at risk on Day 3. For those who weren't in the game back then, Yoshida at one point urged Renegade (who had a gun gifted from Yoshida) to shoot and furthermore shoot Frinckles at one point. He also came up with the idea of there being a bomb kinda all out of nowhere, as if he had TMI that not only bomb existed but also Frinckles was the bomb.

[QUOTE=ikarusdk;986894]Anyway, thanks Martin

I kinda don't actually deserve your kind words towards my posts to be honest, I have been just really frustrated at this game overall and I don't think I've ever used the tone I used here in any game. So I apologise to everyone.[/QUOTE]

I've been there in one form or another.

Not sharing those words would mean kinda disrespecting myself tbh.

Originally Posted by ikarusdk

Anyway, thanks Martin

I kinda don't actually deserve your kind words towards my posts to be honest, I have been just really frustrated at this game overall and I don't think I've ever used the tone I used here in any game. So I apologise to everyone.

I've been there in one form or another.

Not sharing those words would mean kinda disrespecting myself tbh.

[QUOTE=ikarusdk;986892]Now that i have a better state of mind, I regret saying all of those things today. I've had a extremely bad day yesterday and this morning and it severely affected my mood. I shouldn't have just posted anything tbh.

Sorry.[/QUOTE]

Ikarus, I've played FM for three years and the vast majority of time I invested myself heavily into the game. I've been preety much everywhere mentally at one point or another, and so I find your behavior to be preety natural and can (mostly -- I'm not a mind reader) understand where it comes from. I appreciate you putting in what you could for this day phase, and I hope you don't look upon this day phase's events too negatively (except when its deserved like if Yoshida gives a gun to a town and said town kills town -- at which point yeah I've misplayed a fair bit today in terms of pragmatism and should've listened to you more).

I do hope things improve for you though. Also, it takes guts to say something like that, so respect.

Originally Posted by ikarusdk

Now that i have a better state of mind, I regret saying all of those things today. I've had a extremely bad day yesterday and this morning and it severely affected my mood. I shouldn't have just posted anything tbh.

Sorry.

Ikarus, I've played FM for three years and the vast majority of time I invested myself heavily into the game. I've been preety much everywhere mentally at one point or another, and so I find your behavior to be preety natural and can (mostly -- I'm not a mind reader) understand where it comes from. I appreciate you putting in what you could for this day phase, and I hope you don't look upon this day phase's events too negatively (except when its deserved like if Yoshida gives a gun to a town and said town kills town -- at which point yeah I've misplayed a fair bit today in terms of pragmatism and should've listened to you more).

I do hope things improve for you though. Also, it takes guts to say something like that, so respect.

[QUOTE=ikarusdk;986888]But I'm gonna laugh my ass off when yoshida gives a gun to a town and that town shoots another town.[/QUOTE]

If that happens you'll have well earned that laugh tbh.

The only issue with my plan is if Yoshida hands the gun to a town who's inclined to shoot other towns. I am quite hopeful though that we'll be able to convince them to make the right shot because I think the firnckles flip and other matter can make for a strong case why a few towns are actually town and why X Y or Z alternative worlds are unlikely if not extremely implausible.

Originally Posted by ikarusdk

But I'm gonna laugh my ass off when yoshida gives a gun to a town and that town shoots another town.

If that happens you'll have well earned that laugh tbh.

The only issue with my plan is if Yoshida hands the gun to a town who's inclined to shoot other towns. I am quite hopeful though that we'll be able to convince them to make the right shot because I think the firnckles flip and other matter can make for a strong case why a few towns are actually town and why X Y or Z alternative worlds are unlikely if not extremely implausible.

[QUOTE=ikarusdk;986885]It is true.

I almost gave up with people not voting on day 3.
I stopped wanting to help when I got dismissed multiple times for talking about afk slots.
I then gave up when I realised yoshida isn't yeeted over.

I've made myself clear why yoshida needs to flip before frinckles.

But noone agrees with my view. I'm either 100% in the wrong here or I'm just too smart for this world.

So i did stop caring and you are right.

Im just gonna park my vote SoD, jail whoever you want me to jail.

[MENTION=30852]Renegade[/MENTION]
I'm jailing who you want me to jail which is stellaria

Also since I'm just sleeping consensus from rn

[Vote]Frinckles[/vote][/QUOTE]

"Right" and "wrong" here have preety strong connotations, and are probably inappropriate if the world is truly Frinckles/Yoshida/Stellaria. If both of us are voting mafia, there isn't really any way to be wrong (especially in principle) unless it causes a tie. In principle, I think, we're both right and making good plays.

Pragmatically though, I just worry about the mafia's capability since earlier this day they've demonstrated some ability to influence the formerly AFK slots (see: Zenon & Frinckles, Varcron & Yoshida). Hence, I am pushing for what I think is optimal in order to cut down on the chances that they convince those people that you and I are wrong not just pragmatically but also in principle.

As far as the talking about the AFK slots, I'm sorry if you feel dismissed and ignored in that regard. I may have contributed by not actively engaging in discussions about those slots. I'm currently being a bit of a lazy bastard and pushing my concerns about those discussion until later, as I plan on Frinckles -> Yoshida -> 3rd whoever, but if you care about it enough I will invest myself into the matter earlier and discuss each of those slots with you.

As far as jailing the 3rd, Stellaria is the consensus given the two (claimed) carol results. It'd also help ensure that Loldebite can give his carol to someone who is not the jail target, as the mafia may very well decide they can't afford to kill Loldebite tonight and instead go for you or something like that. In fact [MENTION=27307]Loldebite[/MENTION] it would be great if you give the carol to either Varcron or Neon. I'd say Nancy too but if I am understanding Ikarusdk's earlier posts right it would assuage his fears earlier about the carols being messed with. Giving it to me could be bad in the chance mafia decide to kill me tonight.

Originally Posted by ikarusdk

It is true.

I almost gave up with people not voting on day 3.
I stopped wanting to help when I got dismissed multiple times for talking about afk slots.
I then gave up when I realised yoshida isn't yeeted over.

I've made myself clear why yoshida needs to flip before frinckles.

But noone agrees with my view. I'm either 100% in the wrong here or I'm just too smart for this world.

So i did stop caring and you are right.

Im just gonna park my vote SoD, jail whoever you want me to jail.

@Renegade
I'm jailing who you want me to jail which is stellaria

Also since I'm just sleeping consensus from rn

-vote Frinckles

"Right" and "wrong" here have preety strong connotations, and are probably inappropriate if the world is truly Frinckles/Yoshida/Stellaria. If both of us are voting mafia, there isn't really any way to be wrong (especially in principle) unless it causes a tie. In principle, I think, we're both right and making good plays.

Pragmatically though, I just worry about the mafia's capability since earlier this day they've demonstrated some ability to influence the formerly AFK slots (see: Zenon & Frinckles, Varcron & Yoshida). Hence, I am pushing for what I think is optimal in order to cut down on the chances that they convince those people that you and I are wrong not just pragmatically but also in principle.

As far as the talking about the AFK slots, I'm sorry if you feel dismissed and ignored in that regard. I may have contributed by not actively engaging in discussions about those slots. I'm currently being a bit of a lazy bastard and pushing my concerns about those discussion until later, as I plan on Frinckles -> Yoshida -> 3rd whoever, but if you care about it enough I will invest myself into the matter earlier and discuss each of those slots with you.

As far as jailing the 3rd, Stellaria is the consensus given the two (claimed) carol results. It'd also help ensure that Loldebite can give his carol to someone who is not the jail target, as the mafia may very well decide they can't afford to kill Loldebite tonight and instead go for you or something like that. In fact @Loldebite it would be great if you give the carol to either Varcron or Neon. I'd say Nancy too but if I am understanding Ikarusdk's earlier posts right it would assuage his fears earlier about the carols being messed with. Giving it to me could be bad in the chance mafia decide to kill me tonight.

Honestly somewhat frustrating that it feels Ikar has stopped valuing pragmatic considerations for the day. So much energy earlier in the game I had hoped he would at least engage with me directly on the matter.

But half of him seems to have stopped caring.

Honestly somewhat frustrating that it feels Ikar has stopped valuing pragmatic considerations for the day. So much energy earlier in the game I had hoped he would at least engage with me directly on the matter.

But half of him seems to have stopped caring.

err when I say day 2, its the day after this one

err when I say day 2, its the day after this one

[QUOTE=ikarusdk;986880]You guys keep telling me that yoshida will be forced to gove a gun to town.

It isn't like he can just give it to jailed target or myself and the gun will be lost.[/QUOTE]

I take it you didn't read my post in full then. Because I wasn't saying the same thing as that.

Even so, a correct jail denies the mafia having it and so it becomes a matter of whether someone receives a gun and can use it day 2 or does and then dies the same night.

Which is kinda handy information for everyone imo.

Originally Posted by ikarusdk

You guys keep telling me that yoshida will be forced to gove a gun to town.

It isn't like he can just give it to jailed target or myself and the gun will be lost.

I take it you didn't read my post in full then. Because I wasn't saying the same thing as that.

Even so, a correct jail denies the mafia having it and so it becomes a matter of whether someone receives a gun and can use it day 2 or does and then dies the same night.

Which is kinda handy information for everyone imo.

[QUOTE=MartinGG99;986848]If Frinckles will not be chopped then I will vote Yoshida if I absolutely must at EoD in order to avoid [B]both [/B]of those two living past this day phase. [/QUOTE]

edit by way of post

Originally Posted by MartinGG99

If Frinckles will not be chopped then I will vote Yoshida if I absolutely must at EoD in order to avoid both of those two living past this day phase.

edit by way of post

A tie in wagons will cause a skip (see quote below). Please keep that in mind.

We are very close to a tie with everyone voting now, and one that could easily be manipulated by mafia at the end of day in [URL="https://www.tickcounter.com/countdown/4155611/my-countdown"]~17 hours[/URL].

Frinckles (4):
Loldebite, MartinGG99, yoshida, Nancy Drew 39

Stellaria (3):
Zenon, Renegade, Varcron

yoshida (3):
Frinckles, ikarusdk, Stellaria

[QUOTE=powerofdeath;984251]
Plurality vote will be used. Not voting will count as Skipping the Day. Hammering does not lynch the person or end the day. Whoever have the most votes by 48 hours will be voted out. [B][U]In an event of a tie, the day is skipped.[/U][/B][/QUOTE]

[MENTION=36817]ikarusdk[/MENTION]
[MENTION=27307]Loldebite[/MENTION]
[MENTION=30852]Renegade[/MENTION]
[MENTION=46531]Nancy Drew 39[/MENTION]
[MENTION=43484]Varcron[/MENTION]
[MENTION=46456]Zenon[/MENTION]
[MENTION=46461]Stellaria[/MENTION]

Personally, I'm "fine" with all these wagons but in my personal opinion a Frinckles wolf flip would give the mafia the least wiggle room (as day 3 was quite contentious at times) and therefore has the most priority. With a correct jailkeep (by Ikarusdk) of the 3rd mafia, Yoshida will be put in a situation where whoever receives his gun will either be town or the person dead next night. If Frinckles will not be chopped then I will vote Yoshida if I absolutely must at EoD in order to avoid either of those two living past this day phase. Stellaria being chopped over Frinckles and Yoshida wouldn't be ideal in any way and would be suboptimal imo.

A tie in wagons will cause a skip (see quote below). Please keep that in mind.

We are very close to a tie with everyone voting now, and one that could easily be manipulated by mafia at the end of day in ~17 hours.

Frinckles (4):
Loldebite, MartinGG99, yoshida, Nancy Drew 39

Stellaria (3):
Zenon, Renegade, Varcron

yoshida (3):
Frinckles, ikarusdk, Stellaria

Originally Posted by powerofdeath

Plurality vote will be used. Not voting will count as Skipping the Day. Hammering does not lynch the person or end the day. Whoever have the most votes by 48 hours will be voted out. In an event of a tie, the day is skipped.

@ikarusdk
@Loldebite
@Renegade
@Nancy Drew 39
@Varcron
@Zenon
@Stellaria

Personally, I'm "fine" with all these wagons but in my personal opinion a Frinckles wolf flip would give the mafia the least wiggle room (as day 3 was quite contentious at times) and therefore has the most priority. With a correct jailkeep (by Ikarusdk) of the 3rd mafia, Yoshida will be put in a situation where whoever receives his gun will either be town or the person dead next night. If Frinckles will not be chopped then I will vote Yoshida if I absolutely must at EoD in order to avoid either of those two living past this day phase. Stellaria being chopped over Frinckles and Yoshida wouldn't be ideal in any way and would be suboptimal imo.

[QUOTE=Zenon;986738]None but I've seen this play a thousand times[/QUOTE]

if a play has been made a thousand times then wolfs would have at least thought to replicate it once

[SIZE=1]also idk what you specifically mean by "play" here -- like is it what Frinckles has done in the past, his posting today, ooooor?[/SIZE]

Originally Posted by Zenon

None but I've seen this play a thousand times

if a play has been made a thousand times then wolfs would have at least thought to replicate it once

also idk what you specifically mean by "play" here -- like is it what Frinckles has done in the past, his posting today, ooooor?

[QUOTE=Loldebite;986717]Don't let AtE get to you. Stay on Frinckles, log off, come back in 53h and be happy.[/QUOTE]

well slightly unhappy too if that happens because the rule isn't posts per day its posts per 24 hours of day

which I'm half-sure would've gotten me warned at least once had I not checked the posting requirements (by the host) early in the game

Originally Posted by Loldebite

Don't let AtE get to you. Stay on Frinckles, log off, come back in 53h and be happy.

well slightly unhappy too if that happens because the rule isn't posts per day its posts per 24 hours of day

which I'm half-sure would've gotten me warned at least once had I not checked the posting requirements (by the host) early in the game

[QUOTE=MartinGG99;986795]This is a great though tbh

Let's say frinckles flips mafia, yoshida is mafia, and 3rd mafia is jailed. Either yoshida gives the gun to a town, or he gives it to the town which he would be killing. In the even we don't get a gun it would make things quite likely that Yoshida is lying about being town, especially if the person he gives a gun to is someone who forseeable is likely to die for X or Y reason.[/QUOTE]

It also explains why suddenly today (in which the world is any world involving Frinckles/Yoshida) decided Yoshida should be eliminated. So they can remove the risk of town getting a gun, as presently if the mafia are going to lose players then Yoshida is a living liability.

Originally Posted by MartinGG99

This is a great though tbh

Let's say frinckles flips mafia, yoshida is mafia, and 3rd mafia is jailed. Either yoshida gives the gun to a town, or he gives it to the town which he would be killing. In the even we don't get a gun it would make things quite likely that Yoshida is lying about being town, especially if the person he gives a gun to is someone who forseeable is likely to die for X or Y reason.

It also explains why suddenly today (in which the world is any world involving Frinckles/Yoshida) decided Yoshida should be eliminated. So they can remove the risk of town getting a gun, as presently if the mafia are going to lose players then Yoshida is a living liability.

[QUOTE=Loldebite;986679][MENTION=36817]ikarusdk[/MENTION] keeping gunsmith alive forces him to hand out a gun to town by jailing his only remaining scum mate. We can spare all of us an extra day of scum crying and boohooing in chat in vain hopes of confusing us enough that we throw.[/QUOTE]

This is a great though tbh

Let's say frinckles flips mafia, yoshida is mafia, and 3rd mafia is jailed. Either yoshida gives the gun to a town, or he gives it to the town which he would be killing. In the even we don't get a gun it would make things quite likely that Yoshida is lying about being town, especially if the person he gives a gun to is someone who forseeable is likely to die for X or Y reason.

Originally Posted by Loldebite

@ikarusdk keeping gunsmith alive forces him to hand out a gun to town by jailing his only remaining scum mate. We can spare all of us an extra day of scum crying and boohooing in chat in vain hopes of confusing us enough that we throw.

This is a great though tbh

Let's say frinckles flips mafia, yoshida is mafia, and 3rd mafia is jailed. Either yoshida gives the gun to a town, or he gives it to the town which he would be killing. In the even we don't get a gun it would make things quite likely that Yoshida is lying about being town, especially if the person he gives a gun to is someone who forseeable is likely to die for X or Y reason.

Note that this is responding to a large post made ~200 posts and 24 hours ago.

[QUOTE=ikarusdk;986566]This is going to make me sound scummy as fuck and I am very well aware of this fact. But I am going to post all my thoughts/suspicions/frustrations here.

There is no doubt here that Yoshida is scum Gunsmith. His posts EoD and today make very little sense from Town POV and his jail chat log was extremely suspicious. I am not going to be changing my vote today. This slot is 100% mafia and if it's town I am going to eat my words and will accept any abuse that will incur (but tbh this slot basically revealed it themselves). Go back to all their 'read' posts and tell me they do not reeek TMI now that we know who has all the roles. I honestly thought yoshida was a bad CE and this is why I did not question Yoshida until EoD.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ikarusdk;986566]Nancy has been pretty towny except she's had moments where she was extremely uncertain. I was not very comfortable with her hesitation on day 3,4. If she was scum with loldebite and pushing Stellaria by faking the carol to include stellaria, then I applaud them because I wouldn't have looked at Nancy as my POE till MYLO situation.
[/QUOTE]

By virtue of your two above quotes, you're suggesting a Loldebite/Nancy/Yoshida team.

I don't think Loldebite/Nancy exists as teammates in a world where Yoshida is also scum, based on his seeming TMI that not only that bomb existed but also the fact that their play (if scum) indicates that they knew Frinckles was exactly that Bomb and not Caroler.

[QUOTE=ikarusdk;986566]So exactly why are town clearing Loldebite?
[/QUOTE]

I think I'm one of the biggest believers in explicitly town-reading Loldebite in this game in the current state, so I'm going to assume you in part were referring to me.

I don't think anyone is clear in any shape or manner what-so-ever except for when we are we confirming what things have happened

everything else is just me making reads which take their play (mech or not) into account, some of which I am more convinced by my analysis of the mech play than my analysis of their non-mech play and vice versa

[QUOTE=ikarusdk;986566]
Unless you guys can prove it to me why mafia!Frinckles would pull a suicidal move to lynch a CE, not the actual carol or another PR, I am not going to be able to townclear loldebite. In a world where Frinckles THOUGHT he was doing some superman fancy play shit (in fact that was stupid if he thought it was the case) and he is town, then it makes loldebite and nancy as mafia partners. This take is further supported by the fact that Loldebite wanted to lynch Frinckles yesterday but could not make up her mind between Gikkle and Frinckles, and was VERY ADAMANT that Gikkle and Frinckles were t/w. Also it was loldebite and yoshida that both pressured Renegade to shoot either slot (CE with one vest down is just two nights away from killing CE). If frinkcles gets shot, then it's one town down or two towns down depending on if frinckles was a bomb from their POV. Luckilyl Ren shot the CE (i thought it was a fake gun) not the bomb. Also I know this last bit is a bit of outrageous suspicion, but loldebite easily followed frinckles unvoting Gikkle when Gikkle revealed he was CE. Why would town!loldebite unvote CE there (i know he knew it wasn't going to change anything). At the time of the vote, there were still few players that did not park their vote so if we managed to skip the day, then CE only has one more vest. Also when I voiced my frustration at Varcron/Zenon slot potentially being a mafia member just coating till MYLO, Debs was very quick to shut that idea down and bullied me to move on. This is not a very towny view IMO.
[/QUOTE]

Honestly, I kinda don't understand the fuss about this. Not that I don't see your reasons, but rather the whole issue that you seem to be concerned about (where people presume Frinckles/Yoshida to be mafia and not Loldebite) likely does not persist if either of Frinckles or Yoshida flips town. A large part of consensus world-view I think tends to fall apart or come under question if that happens. I don't think it will though.

Also my frank opinion is that you're likely over-thinking Frinckles. I've had a few games where I've had to over-think about a player and their plays and I've found that trying to over-think someone's play (in order to find any justifiable explanation) doesn't consistently yield any useful and reliable determinations. If I did believe there was even a chance of over-thinking improving my play, I wouldn't have tried limiting it in this game. I just have a terrible habit of reaching for it to try and solve things which I am incapable of solving at a high-depth level, as if that would somehow improve my capability.

Note that this is responding to a large post made ~200 posts and 24 hours ago.

Originally Posted by ikarusdk

This is going to make me sound scummy as fuck and I am very well aware of this fact. But I am going to post all my thoughts/suspicions/frustrations here.

There is no doubt here that Yoshida is scum Gunsmith. His posts EoD and today make very little sense from Town POV and his jail chat log was extremely suspicious. I am not going to be changing my vote today. This slot is 100% mafia and if it's town I am going to eat my words and will accept any abuse that will incur (but tbh this slot basically revealed it themselves). Go back to all their 'read' posts and tell me they do not reeek TMI now that we know who has all the roles. I honestly thought yoshida was a bad CE and this is why I did not question Yoshida until EoD.

Originally Posted by ikarusdk

Nancy has been pretty towny except she's had moments where she was extremely uncertain. I was not very comfortable with her hesitation on day 3,4. If she was scum with loldebite and pushing Stellaria by faking the carol to include stellaria, then I applaud them because I wouldn't have looked at Nancy as my POE till MYLO situation.

By virtue of your two above quotes, you're suggesting a Loldebite/Nancy/Yoshida team.

I don't think Loldebite/Nancy exists as teammates in a world where Yoshida is also scum, based on his seeming TMI that not only that bomb existed but also the fact that their play (if scum) indicates that they knew Frinckles was exactly that Bomb and not Caroler.

Originally Posted by ikarusdk

So exactly why are town clearing Loldebite?

I think I'm one of the biggest believers in explicitly town-reading Loldebite in this game in the current state, so I'm going to assume you in part were referring to me.

I don't think anyone is clear in any shape or manner what-so-ever except for when we are we confirming what things have happened

everything else is just me making reads which take their play (mech or not) into account, some of which I am more convinced by my analysis of the mech play than my analysis of their non-mech play and vice versa

Originally Posted by ikarusdk

Unless you guys can prove it to me why mafia!Frinckles would pull a suicidal move to lynch a CE, not the actual carol or another PR, I am not going to be able to townclear loldebite. In a world where Frinckles THOUGHT he was doing some superman fancy play shit (in fact that was stupid if he thought it was the case) and he is town, then it makes loldebite and nancy as mafia partners. This take is further supported by the fact that Loldebite wanted to lynch Frinckles yesterday but could not make up her mind between Gikkle and Frinckles, and was VERY ADAMANT that Gikkle and Frinckles were t/w. Also it was loldebite and yoshida that both pressured Renegade to shoot either slot (CE with one vest down is just two nights away from killing CE). If frinkcles gets shot, then it's one town down or two towns down depending on if frinckles was a bomb from their POV. Luckilyl Ren shot the CE (i thought it was a fake gun) not the bomb. Also I know this last bit is a bit of outrageous suspicion, but loldebite easily followed frinckles unvoting Gikkle when Gikkle revealed he was CE. Why would town!loldebite unvote CE there (i know he knew it wasn't going to change anything). At the time of the vote, there were still few players that did not park their vote so if we managed to skip the day, then CE only has one more vest. Also when I voiced my frustration at Varcron/Zenon slot potentially being a mafia member just coating till MYLO, Debs was very quick to shut that idea down and bullied me to move on. This is not a very towny view IMO.

Honestly, I kinda don't understand the fuss about this. Not that I don't see your reasons, but rather the whole issue that you seem to be concerned about (where people presume Frinckles/Yoshida to be mafia and not Loldebite) likely does not persist if either of Frinckles or Yoshida flips town. A large part of consensus world-view I think tends to fall apart or come under question if that happens. I don't think it will though.

Also my frank opinion is that you're likely over-thinking Frinckles. I've had a few games where I've had to over-think about a player and their plays and I've found that trying to over-think someone's play (in order to find any justifiable explanation) doesn't consistently yield any useful and reliable determinations. If I did believe there was even a chance of over-thinking improving my play, I wouldn't have tried limiting it in this game. I just have a terrible habit of reaching for it to try and solve things which I am incapable of solving at a high-depth level, as if that would somehow improve my capability.

[QUOTE=ikarusdk;986486]I...did not read all the EoD except Gikkles last post about yoshida.[/QUOTE]

don't take my comments personally btw

I understand you've invested a lot of yourself in the game and was quite upset with certain aspects about the game, so not reading everything (if that wasn't excusable enough -- I didn't read everything either) is okay for anyone in your position

Originally Posted by ikarusdk

I...did not read all the EoD except Gikkles last post about yoshida.

don't take my comments personally btw

I understand you've invested a lot of yourself in the game and was quite upset with certain aspects about the game, so not reading everything (if that wasn't excusable enough -- I didn't read everything either) is okay for anyone in your position

[QUOTE=ikarusdk;986466]Hi guys

I jailed yoshida last night based on gikkles parting gift of honesty.

This is what transpired. You can come to your own conclusions.

[SPOILER=jail chat] The room was created11:50 AM

powerofdeath entered for the first time11:50 AM

powerofdeath joined the chat11:58 AM

Ikarus entered for the first time12:02 PM

Ikarus: Hello sup12:03 PM

zzzzzzzzz entered for the first time12:03 PM

zzzzzzzzz: ???????12:03 PM

zzzzzzzzz: are you out of your mind12:03 PM

zzzzzzzzz: you just lost town the game12:04 PM

Ikarus: Why12:04 PM

Ikarus: Are you even aware what is going on12:04 PM

zzzzzzzzz: i am fully aware12:04 PM

Ikarus: What is your name12:05 PM

zzzzzzzzz: we just had a night with a carol + renegade received a gun. why would you jail anyone besides martin/same target in order to not mess other night actions?? we had a guaranteed CE elimination today that means there is no NK12:05 PM

zzzzzzzzz: did you even read the game??12:06 PM

zzzzzzzzz: we might aswell surrender thanks you12:06 PM

zzzzzzzzz: i am done12:07 PM

zzzzzzzzz: i will be voting you tomorrow for this12:07 PM

zzzzzzzzz: good night12:07 PM

zzzzzzzzz joined the chat12:08 PM

zzzzzzzzz: tell your partners to get ready12:09 PM

zzzzzzzzz joined the chat12:13 PM

Ikarus: For 1. Renade did not receive a gun. It was a fake gun. 2. Frinckles is carol. 3. Martin cannot receive carol12:13 PM

Ikarus: But I don't like your tone here12:14 PM

Ikarus: Only a mafia will get this angry about CE being voted out12:14 PM

Ikarus: You wanting me to jail Martin made absolutely no sense12:15 PM

Ikarus: What would that achieve12:15 PM

Ikarus joined the chat12:16 PM

Ikarus joined the chat12:25 PM

Ikarus: This guy is mafia fabricator rofl12:26 PM

Ikarus joined the chat12:42 PM

zzzzzzzzz joined the chat1:45 PM

zzzzzzzzz: seriously if you are town you really need to step back and think about what you have done. I won't reveal your mistake tomorrow if you see into it. if you are mafia then I don't expect anything from you. you have done your part in that case and gg wp1:49 PM

zzzzzzzzz: also, you are either trolling or just don't realize that renegade shot a gun. host message clearly stated that.1:51 PM

powerofdeath joined the chat1:52 PM

zzzzzzzzz joined the chat1:59 PM

zzzzzzzzz joined the chat4:29 PM

zzzzzzzzz joined the chat4:40 PM

zzzzzzzzz: hey im jk love you brother4:40 PM

zzzzzzzzz: doc n1 afk | n2 nancy4:40 PM

zzzzzzzzz: who do you think is mafia?4:40 PM

powerofdeath joined the chat9:08 PM

Ikarus joined the chat11:27 PM

zzzzzzzzz joined the chat1:44 AM

zzzzzzzzz: the only person you should have jailed was Frinckles so you could get a carol but oh well. frinckles will probably get you eliminated regardless of alignment. I could side with you if you are actually town and see the mistake here1:48 AM

zzzzzzzzz: gl1:48 AM

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Ikarus joined the chat1:00 PM

Options [/SPOILER][/QUOTE]

......what was even that chat?

did both people in there have wrong conclusions about how the game works here oooorrrr????


[SIZE=1]Also if I knew I could just copy-paste the whole chat, I would've.[/SIZE]

Originally Posted by ikarusdk

Hi guys

I jailed yoshida last night based on gikkles parting gift of honesty.

This is what transpired. You can come to your own conclusions.

Spoiler : jail chat :

The room was created11:50 AM

powerofdeath entered for the first time11:50 AM

powerofdeath joined the chat11:58 AM

Ikarus entered for the first time12:02 PM

Ikarus: Hello sup12:03 PM

zzzzzzzzz entered for the first time12:03 PM

zzzzzzzzz: ???????12:03 PM

zzzzzzzzz: are you out of your mind12:03 PM

zzzzzzzzz: you just lost town the game12:04 PM

Ikarus: Why12:04 PM

Ikarus: Are you even aware what is going on12:04 PM

zzzzzzzzz: i am fully aware12:04 PM

Ikarus: What is your name12:05 PM

zzzzzzzzz: we just had a night with a carol + renegade received a gun. why would you jail anyone besides martin/same target in order to not mess other night actions?? we had a guaranteed CE elimination today that means there is no NK12:05 PM

zzzzzzzzz: did you even read the game??12:06 PM

zzzzzzzzz: we might aswell surrender thanks you12:06 PM

zzzzzzzzz: i am done12:07 PM

zzzzzzzzz: i will be voting you tomorrow for this12:07 PM

zzzzzzzzz: good night12:07 PM

zzzzzzzzz joined the chat12:08 PM

zzzzzzzzz: tell your partners to get ready12:09 PM

zzzzzzzzz joined the chat12:13 PM

Ikarus: For 1. Renade did not receive a gun. It was a fake gun. 2. Frinckles is carol. 3. Martin cannot receive carol12:13 PM

Ikarus: But I don't like your tone here12:14 PM

Ikarus: Only a mafia will get this angry about CE being voted out12:14 PM

Ikarus: You wanting me to jail Martin made absolutely no sense12:15 PM

Ikarus: What would that achieve12:15 PM

Ikarus joined the chat12:16 PM

Ikarus joined the chat12:25 PM

Ikarus: This guy is mafia fabricator rofl12:26 PM

Ikarus joined the chat12:42 PM

zzzzzzzzz joined the chat1:45 PM

zzzzzzzzz: seriously if you are town you really need to step back and think about what you have done. I won't reveal your mistake tomorrow if you see into it. if you are mafia then I don't expect anything from you. you have done your part in that case and gg wp1:49 PM

zzzzzzzzz: also, you are either trolling or just don't realize that renegade shot a gun. host message clearly stated that.1:51 PM

powerofdeath joined the chat1:52 PM

zzzzzzzzz joined the chat1:59 PM

zzzzzzzzz joined the chat4:29 PM

zzzzzzzzz joined the chat4:40 PM

zzzzzzzzz: hey im jk love you brother4:40 PM

zzzzzzzzz: doc n1 afk | n2 nancy4:40 PM

zzzzzzzzz: who do you think is mafia?4:40 PM

powerofdeath joined the chat9:08 PM

Ikarus joined the chat11:27 PM

zzzzzzzzz joined the chat1:44 AM

zzzzzzzzz: the only person you should have jailed was Frinckles so you could get a carol but oh well. frinckles will probably get you eliminated regardless of alignment. I could side with you if you are actually town and see the mistake here1:48 AM

zzzzzzzzz: gl1:48 AM

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zzzzzzzzz joined the chat11:35 AM

Ikarus joined the chat1:00 PM

Options

......what was even that chat?

did both people in there have wrong conclusions about how the game works here oooorrrr????


Also if I knew I could just copy-paste the whole chat, I would've.

[QUOTE=yoshida;986449]I understand your choice. As I said, I am perfectly okay to be the elim today since I don't trust certain players here and it would be harmful for town if I stayed alive. I have already contributed to 2 scum eliminations so thats good in my books.[/QUOTE]

Frankly if you think I should be voting you instead the only real arguments that'll convince me to do so are ones that work from the standpoint of either frinckles being mafia or you + frinckles being mafia

I do not have much doubt in my mind to be persuaded into making plays which bank their value on the info gained from flips. Info which would, in some argument or another, imply the alignment of another player.

Originally Posted by yoshida

I understand your choice. As I said, I am perfectly okay to be the elim today since I don't trust certain players here and it would be harmful for town if I stayed alive. I have already contributed to 2 scum eliminations so thats good in my books.

Frankly if you think I should be voting you instead the only real arguments that'll convince me to do so are ones that work from the standpoint of either frinckles being mafia or you + frinckles being mafia

I do not have much doubt in my mind to be persuaded into making plays which bank their value on the info gained from flips. Info which would, in some argument or another, imply the alignment of another player.

[QUOTE=yoshida;986439]Martin and lolde have very artificial tone towards all of this.[/QUOTE]

I don't believe Lolde has had an artificial tone.

But I know my tone has changed since late D3, and that was out of grumpiness over the mass of posts made as well as being argued with by the CE over mech stuff and optimal play (discussion which necessarily appear logic-oriented and comparatively tone-less). Right now my tone is due to the rather clear-cut direction I am intending to take.

Originally Posted by yoshida

Martin and lolde have very artificial tone towards all of this.

I don't believe Lolde has had an artificial tone.

But I know my tone has changed since late D3, and that was out of grumpiness over the mass of posts made as well as being argued with by the CE over mech stuff and optimal play (discussion which necessarily appear logic-oriented and comparatively tone-less). Right now my tone is due to the rather clear-cut direction I am intending to take.

[QUOTE=yoshida;986429]yours is just a claim. I am mech clear and I have enough time to prove that today.[/QUOTE]

mech clear is a term with very strong implications and often times are hard to get in games

I currently cannot imagine a mech clear for you

Originally Posted by yoshida

yours is just a claim. I am mech clear and I have enough time to prove that today.

mech clear is a term with very strong implications and often times are hard to get in games

I currently cannot imagine a mech clear for you

[QUOTE=Nancy Drew 39;986426][MENTION=21928]MartinGG99[/MENTION], Not me. People aren’t reading my posts. :/[/QUOTE]

Not sure what you're @'ing me for

I have read the carol you just posted. I haven't thoroughly read every post you've made though.

Originally Posted by Nancy Drew 39

@MartinGG99 , Not me. People aren’t reading my posts. :/

Not sure what you're @'ing me for

I have read the carol you just posted. I haven't thoroughly read every post you've made though.

[vote]Frinckles[/vote]

Or Yoshida.

If someone has a gun use it on them (although you may not want to do Frinckles as apparently he's a bomb) or self-out as wolf by shooting outside of those two.

-vote Frinckles

Or Yoshida.

If someone has a gun use it on them (although you may not want to do Frinckles as apparently he's a bomb) or self-out as wolf by shooting outside of those two.

[QUOTE=Renegade;986414]Can we really trust that the carol was "true" if it came from a CE's mouth?[/QUOTE]

Here's the thing: I don't think CE put Stellaria in there. But its hypothetically possible the other PRs (Ikar/Lolde) were switched with a non-PR who was originally in there -- meaning one of Zenon/You/Nancy/Varcron -- and therefore contaminating the "at least one mafia among XYZ" result.

Originally Posted by Renegade

Can we really trust that the carol was "true" if it came from a CE's mouth?

Here's the thing: I don't think CE put Stellaria in there. But its hypothetically possible the other PRs (Ikar/Lolde) were switched with a non-PR who was originally in there -- meaning one of Zenon/You/Nancy/Varcron -- and therefore contaminating the "at least one mafia among XYZ" result.

I'm buying the yoshida/frinckles/stellaria team tbh

my certainty on Frinckles being town was if he was the caroler

I don't see much of a valid point in fake-CC'ing as town and if anything I would see a less-experienced player doing it

Only issue I could see is if Gikkle manipulated the carol results, but even so, I TR Lolde and Ikar much more than Stellaria. Renegade shooting CE instead of what Yoshida was pressuring him to do also looks town to me.

So my process of elimination would be like

Yoshida/Frinckles
->
stellaria/Varcron/Zenon/Nancy

Probably just stellaria but honestly I'm not ready yet to call it that. I would like to scrutinize each of those slots before placing a vote there, as I don't think I have really scrutinized any of them properly yet.

I'm buying the yoshida/frinckles/stellaria team tbh

my certainty on Frinckles being town was if he was the caroler

I don't see much of a valid point in fake-CC'ing as town and if anything I would see a less-experienced player doing it

Only issue I could see is if Gikkle manipulated the carol results, but even so, I TR Lolde and Ikar much more than Stellaria. Renegade shooting CE instead of what Yoshida was pressuring him to do also looks town to me.

So my process of elimination would be like

Yoshida/Frinckles
->
stellaria/Varcron/Zenon/Nancy

Probably just stellaria but honestly I'm not ready yet to call it that. I would like to scrutinize each of those slots before placing a vote there, as I don't think I have really scrutinized any of them properly yet.

Well I'm glad I detected Gikkle was CE before this whole mess began. Thats a nice highlight to my game.

Well played though.

Well I'm glad I detected Gikkle was CE before this whole mess began. Thats a nice highlight to my game.

Well played though.

[QUOTE=yoshida;986356][MENTION=36817]ikarusdk[/MENTION] sorry forgot! since you are forced to take action.. jail Martin again because we don't want to lose a carol or another potential gun tonight.[/QUOTE]

Jailing me is not ideal if the carol goes to me. Which would then be redirected to ikarus and then be cast into the void.

Originally Posted by yoshida

@ikarusdk sorry forgot! since you are forced to take action.. jail Martin again because we don't want to lose a carol or another potential gun tonight.

Jailing me is not ideal if the carol goes to me. Which would then be redirected to ikarus and then be cast into the void.

I vote for the carol to go to anyone who is a claimed non-PR.

I dont know who that is, but I figure at least some people. I know I did when I shared the jail chat earlier.

I vote for the carol to go to anyone who is a claimed non-PR.

I dont know who that is, but I figure at least some people. I know I did when I shared the jail chat earlier.

[QUOTE=yoshida;986353][MENTION=36817]ikarusdk[/MENTION] in the scenario Gikkle flipping CE, there won't be any NK. If you jail Frinckles or anyone tonight as town then that is game throwing.[/QUOTE]

Every role is forced to do their action, whatever that is.

I dont think jailing frinckles is ever a good idea. It blocks the unavoidable carol if CE dies, and i the 1% fricnkles is mafia it doesn't block the factional as someone else in the mafia will do it.

I'm not sure whats the best use of the jail though other than its blocking effect on mafia PRs though.

Originally Posted by yoshida

@ikarusdk in the scenario Gikkle flipping CE, there won't be any NK. If you jail Frinckles or anyone tonight as town then that is game throwing.

Every role is forced to do their action, whatever that is.

I dont think jailing frinckles is ever a good idea. It blocks the unavoidable carol if CE dies, and i the 1% fricnkles is mafia it doesn't block the factional as someone else in the mafia will do it.

I'm not sure whats the best use of the jail though other than its blocking effect on mafia PRs though.

Welp, I gotta switch to my phone now.

Don't expect complex posts from me for the rest of EoD.

Welp, I gotta switch to my phone now.

Don't expect complex posts from me for the rest of EoD.

[QUOTE=Gikkle;986335]If they wanted to fully utilize blackmailer, it's best that it remains hidden.

Mayor could be handed out in hopes it goes to a townie who will get themselves killed.[/QUOTE]

I don't think that's an optimal use. In fact, come to think of it, considering this setup needs to concentrate votes otherwise non-voters cause a skip, Blackmailer's power is greater than it seems.

Yeah, that's a reason mayor could be handed out for. But that exact argument could apply to most of the roles that CE could hand out. Either killed by mafia, or killed by town. Few exists that are likely to not be given special attention by either alignment.

Originally Posted by Gikkle

If they wanted to fully utilize blackmailer, it's best that it remains hidden.

Mayor could be handed out in hopes it goes to a townie who will get themselves killed.

I don't think that's an optimal use. In fact, come to think of it, considering this setup needs to concentrate votes otherwise non-voters cause a skip, Blackmailer's power is greater than it seems.

Yeah, that's a reason mayor could be handed out for. But that exact argument could apply to most of the roles that CE could hand out. Either killed by mafia, or killed by town. Few exists that are likely to not be given special attention by either alignment.

[QUOTE=Gikkle;986332]The only reason people have to really suspect me is based on Frinckles' word. But to believe Frinckles' word, you have to believe he doesn't sufficiently benefit from this gambit.[/QUOTE]

+ the fact that you survived a shot, which puts your word in doubt. But yes, I believe overall Frinckles doesn't benefit from the situation. Maybe there are super-edge-specific cases where that does exist, but honestly I don't expect any player to realize those beneficial gambits and plays with the circumstances that appeared early in this day phase. If Frinckles somehow is mafia, just burn him at the sake in every future game where something like an extreme gambit happens.

[QUOTE=Gikkle;986332]The possibility of four different roles that would make this gambit worth it for S!Frinckles should be reason enough for people to actually try and go back and actually analyze my day play[/QUOTE]

Generally, if a town puts a lot of effort into the day and they die, I will read it regardless of whether it is useful. But frankly, in the case that you're town, I might not read everything you say. Primarily because I've gotten tired of reading so many posts for this day phase and the fact that (it seems) most of them are discussing the same darn thing.

I do respect the amount of posting and effort you've put into this day though. I just won't have the energy/willingness to read it all. Also I'll have to consider and read some other slots as well over the night.

Originally Posted by Gikkle

The only reason people have to really suspect me is based on Frinckles' word. But to believe Frinckles' word, you have to believe he doesn't sufficiently benefit from this gambit.

+ the fact that you survived a shot, which puts your word in doubt. But yes, I believe overall Frinckles doesn't benefit from the situation. Maybe there are super-edge-specific cases where that does exist, but honestly I don't expect any player to realize those beneficial gambits and plays with the circumstances that appeared early in this day phase. If Frinckles somehow is mafia, just burn him at the sake in every future game where something like an extreme gambit happens.

Originally Posted by Gikkle

The possibility of four different roles that would make this gambit worth it for S!Frinckles should be reason enough for people to actually try and go back and actually analyze my day play

Generally, if a town puts a lot of effort into the day and they die, I will read it regardless of whether it is useful. But frankly, in the case that you're town, I might not read everything you say. Primarily because I've gotten tired of reading so many posts for this day phase and the fact that (it seems) most of them are discussing the same darn thing.

I do respect the amount of posting and effort you've put into this day though. I just won't have the energy/willingness to read it all. Also I'll have to consider and read some other slots as well over the night.

[QUOTE=Gikkle;986328]Blacksmith is separate from gunsmith.
CE can't be killed be vengeful.
Mafia could have blackmailed Italiano.
Mayor would literally win this game for mafia after one mislynch.[/QUOTE]

Blacksmith: You're correct about that.

Vengeful: I didn't read the last line. You're correct. But assumptions #1 and #2 still remain.

Blackmailer: I don't find it likely that the mafia would waste their power on someone like a dead person. Use it on an influential town and their ability to adapt and pressure people will be diminished significantly. Sure, blackmailer could benefit, but they've already taken the step of [I][U]not[/U][/I] benefitting it. Is benefitting it really their goal and a factor in their decision-making here?

Mayor: All the more reason CE may have not wanted to hand out a mayor role.

Originally Posted by Gikkle

Blacksmith is separate from gunsmith.
CE can't be killed be vengeful.
Mafia could have blackmailed Italiano.
Mayor would literally win this game for mafia after one mislynch.

Blacksmith: You're correct about that.

Vengeful: I didn't read the last line. You're correct. But assumptions #1 and #2 still remain.

Blackmailer: I don't find it likely that the mafia would waste their power on someone like a dead person. Use it on an influential town and their ability to adapt and pressure people will be diminished significantly. Sure, blackmailer could benefit, but they've already taken the step of not benefitting it. Is benefitting it really their goal and a factor in their decision-making here?

Mayor: All the more reason CE may have not wanted to hand out a mayor role.

[QUOTE=Gikkle;986322]This argument isn't good though, because CE can win with mafia as long as the mafia isn't entirely comprised of 3 PRs.

So mafia effectively has 4 votes right now. 3 mafia, 1 CE. They thus only need 1 extra NK and 1 mislynch to bring it to parity.

Mayor would achieve this. Vengeful would semi-achieve this (it wouldn't end the game but it would be a lot of value for the mafia). Blacksmith would achieve this. Blackmailer would achieve this.[/QUOTE]

Honestly I feel like this counter-argument banks a lot of its persuasiveness sorta like "the ends justify the means" style; the possible end-result that you describe here somehow signifies that whatever happening today is heading towards that end

The point that CE could side with Mafia is a decent one. But CE would have to figure whether or not the PRs are the mafia. Since neither alignment know each other for certain, trust and confidence has to be built. And that trust or confidence can be shaken for a number of reasons.

Originally Posted by Gikkle

This argument isn't good though, because CE can win with mafia as long as the mafia isn't entirely comprised of 3 PRs.

So mafia effectively has 4 votes right now. 3 mafia, 1 CE. They thus only need 1 extra NK and 1 mislynch to bring it to parity.

Mayor would achieve this. Vengeful would semi-achieve this (it wouldn't end the game but it would be a lot of value for the mafia). Blacksmith would achieve this. Blackmailer would achieve this.

Honestly I feel like this counter-argument banks a lot of its persuasiveness sorta like "the ends justify the means" style; the possible end-result that you describe here somehow signifies that whatever happening today is heading towards that end

The point that CE could side with Mafia is a decent one. But CE would have to figure whether or not the PRs are the mafia. Since neither alignment know each other for certain, trust and confidence has to be built. And that trust or confidence can be shaken for a number of reasons.

[QUOTE=Gikkle;986317]Have you missed all of my arguments for how Frinckles could be something that benefits from this gambit?
[/QUOTE]

Probably. But that doesn't mean they're right because I missed them.

[QUOTE=Gikkle;986317]Mayor, Vengeful, Blackmailer, Blacksmith. All of these benefit from such a play.

I imagine fabricator shoots a blank, rather than "doesn't have any kind of public announcement at all"[/QUOTE]

Mayor benefits from a lot of situations -- it gets more relative power later in the game so long as its alive. Just becuase it would benefit from this situation doesn't make it any more likely.

Nobody has claimed being blackmailed.

I guess I could see an argument for vengeful if:
1) Frinckles is the vengeful
2) Some other mafia is the true caroler and is keeping their mouth shut.
3) CE, whoever that is, decided to hand out a risky vengeful that could kill CE

Blacksmith could? But I don't see them as being mafia atm because they gave the gun to Renegade and Renegade's handling of the gun from the posts that I've read. I should probably read up on those though over night.

Originally Posted by Gikkle

Have you missed all of my arguments for how Frinckles could be something that benefits from this gambit?

Probably. But that doesn't mean they're right because I missed them.

Originally Posted by Gikkle

Mayor, Vengeful, Blackmailer, Blacksmith. All of these benefit from such a play.

I imagine fabricator shoots a blank, rather than "doesn't have any kind of public announcement at all"

Mayor benefits from a lot of situations -- it gets more relative power later in the game so long as its alive. Just becuase it would benefit from this situation doesn't make it any more likely.

Nobody has claimed being blackmailed.

I guess I could see an argument for vengeful if:
1) Frinckles is the vengeful
2) Some other mafia is the true caroler and is keeping their mouth shut.
3) CE, whoever that is, decided to hand out a risky vengeful that could kill CE

Blacksmith could? But I don't see them as being mafia atm because they gave the gun to Renegade and Renegade's handling of the gun from the posts that I've read. I should probably read up on those though over night.

[QUOTE=Loldebite;986312] I'd like to hear your (and any/everyone's tbh) thoughts about this :
[QUOTE=Loldebite;986302]You do you. Personally I don't think frinckles is EVER bad enough to play like that if he's not 1) actually as confident as he seems or 2) scum. I'm all in on this worldview where Gikkle and Frinckles is never T/T and Frinckles saying he's "considering it" is inconsistent in that world view and that's actually making me doubt his sincerity.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]

I'm preety sure I've said that I find Frinckles T regardless of what Gikkle is.

iirc it was because Frinckle's play is kinda suicide with up to three miseliminations possible, and so it would be likely any one-time lie by a mafia frinckles would be found out

Originally Posted by Loldebite

I'd like to hear your (and any/everyone's tbh) thoughts about this :

Originally Posted by Loldebite

You do you. Personally I don't think frinckles is EVER bad enough to play like that if he's not 1) actually as confident as he seems or 2) scum. I'm all in on this worldview where Gikkle and Frinckles is never T/T and Frinckles saying he's "considering it" is inconsistent in that world view and that's actually making me doubt his sincerity.

I'm preety sure I've said that I find Frinckles T regardless of what Gikkle is.

iirc it was because Frinckle's play is kinda suicide with up to three miseliminations possible, and so it would be likely any one-time lie by a mafia frinckles would be found out

[QUOTE=Loldebite;986312]CE cannot vest during the day.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you should read more instead of posting more, Lolde.

[QUOTE=powerofdeath;986172][COLOR="#00FF00"]Vests are passive and do work during the day.[/color][/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Loldebite

CE cannot vest during the day.

Maybe you should read more instead of posting more, Lolde.

Originally Posted by powerofdeath

Vests are passive and do work during the day.

[QUOTE=Gikkle;986311]If you think I'm CE, you should be voting Frinckles, as Frinckles would 100% be mafia in such a world.
I'm not CE though - Renegade's gun was likely from a fabricator.[/QUOTE]

Frinckles isn't mafia unless he's lying about the carol. Also, if you are CE and are delyeeted, then there will be no kills in the next night and frinckles would [I]have[/I] to give a carol to a claimed non-PR. Which just adds more info/dynamics to the game.

Fabricator's role description says the gun doesn't shoot. Yet it says you were shot.

Originally Posted by Gikkle

If you think I'm CE, you should be voting Frinckles, as Frinckles would 100% be mafia in such a world.
I'm not CE though - Renegade's gun was likely from a fabricator.

Frinckles isn't mafia unless he's lying about the carol. Also, if you are CE and are delyeeted, then there will be no kills in the next night and frinckles would have to give a carol to a claimed non-PR. Which just adds more info/dynamics to the game.

Fabricator's role description says the gun doesn't shoot. Yet it says you were shot.

If the new replacements don't read up either I wouldn't blame them honestly

like half the posts in this game come from four players

If the new replacements don't read up either I wouldn't blame them honestly

like half the posts in this game come from four players