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[QUOTE=OzyWho;944436]If people could stop giving support's on blind faith, that'd be great.
First there were 100+ posts on discord+forums agreeing with the MU mods, a witch hunt after Helz and his supporters.
Now there's witch hunt after MU mods.
On both sides most didn't bother looking into anything, just taking the word of whomever they're supporting.

I myself need the case to be put under scrutiny before I support either.
My own interpretation is in #7, however I said I don't understand most of what was even said.
Now as it stands, thanks to #18+#19+#20, it seems that even the people here share the same interpretation as the mods on MU? Which atm is the majority of people looking into it themselves?
Combine that with Helz not replying to them, and it's objective to support the ban?

I can't agree with the aftermath of it all though - that lost the MU mods credibility for me.

I wish Helz to take care of his mental health.
I wish others to not go on blind faith witch-hunts. Though I suppose that's what communities do, judging by both MU and SC2Mafia?[/QUOTE]

I'm not advocating for "cancelling" or "witch-hunting" anyone, nor do I have the power too, if I'm who you have in mind here. I'm not taking it on blind faith, I've read the chat before. I suppose I don't have "evidence" helz didn't actually receive an e-mail address and SJ needed to poke for it. Is that what you mean by "blind faith"?

Yes, people should make an effort to speak clearly to avoid misunderstandings. And Helz shouldn't have had an argument while drunk. I think that's reasonable. But a ban with no recourse for appeal is clearly not a proportionate response. Both of those things can be true, and the dude isn't crazy for thinking he's been shafted here lol.

If I seem too hardline and am just adding fuel to the fire, I'll stay out of it, because I'm evidently exacerbating your concerns regarding a "witch hunt" here. But I must say I think your concern for the mods is extremely misplaced. We're a tiny community lamenting an injustice. We couldn't witch hunt a cucumber.

Originally Posted by OzyWho

If people could stop giving support's on blind faith, that'd be great.
First there were 100+ posts on discord+forums agreeing with the MU mods, a witch hunt after Helz and his supporters.
Now there's witch hunt after MU mods.
On both sides most didn't bother looking into anything, just taking the word of whomever they're supporting.

I myself need the case to be put under scrutiny before I support either.
My own interpretation is in #7, however I said I don't understand most of what was even said.
Now as it stands, thanks to #18+#19+#20, it seems that even the people here share the same interpretation as the mods on MU? Which atm is the majority of people looking into it themselves?
Combine that with Helz not replying to them, and it's objective to support the ban?

I can't agree with the aftermath of it all though - that lost the MU mods credibility for me.

I wish Helz to take care of his mental health.
I wish others to not go on blind faith witch-hunts. Though I suppose that's what communities do, judging by both MU and SC2Mafia?

I'm not advocating for "cancelling" or "witch-hunting" anyone, nor do I have the power too, if I'm who you have in mind here. I'm not taking it on blind faith, I've read the chat before. I suppose I don't have "evidence" helz didn't actually receive an e-mail address and SJ needed to poke for it. Is that what you mean by "blind faith"?

Yes, people should make an effort to speak clearly to avoid misunderstandings. And Helz shouldn't have had an argument while drunk. I think that's reasonable. But a ban with no recourse for appeal is clearly not a proportionate response. Both of those things can be true, and the dude isn't crazy for thinking he's been shafted here lol.

If I seem too hardline and am just adding fuel to the fire, I'll stay out of it, because I'm evidently exacerbating your concerns regarding a "witch hunt" here. But I must say I think your concern for the mods is extremely misplaced. We're a tiny community lamenting an injustice. We couldn't witch hunt a cucumber.

That treatment is gross as hell. As someone who appears so passionate about mafia and the mafia community, getting thrown under the bus for short term convenience like that must be terrible. It seems they purely care about silencing the issue and avoiding any kind of conflict. I sincerely wish you the best in finding a resolution to this, or at least some way of making the situation better than it is right now.

I don't see why people are diverging so heavily away from the conduct of the mods into the specifics of the opinions actually being discussed. Unless you believe the views Helz shared actually are racist, grotesque or violate their Ts and Cs in some way, it's not really relevant. The judgement doesn't become more or less fair if the opinion is "correct" or "well-argued".

Whether the views can be feasibly [I]misconstrued[/I] as racist is somewhat more relevant, but still only matters to the initial judgement. The subsequent denial of an appeal and lying to the community about giving Helz the e-mail is extremely cynical and clearly implies the community isn't just oversensitive but genuinely callous to the contributions of dedicated members, with no serious respect given to those who fall out of the "clique". Their "process" seems more about keeping up appearances than addressing misunderstandings and brash judgements or rehabilitating raucous members.

I know this has been going on for many months now and I don't think you (Helz) pursuing this for so long is good for your health. You may hate to hear this, but pragmatically it doesn't make sense to keep fighting unless you think you can achieve a different outcome. But it's your life, and I wish you the best of luck whatever you choose to do.

That treatment is gross as hell. As someone who appears so passionate about mafia and the mafia community, getting thrown under the bus for short term convenience like that must be terrible. It seems they purely care about silencing the issue and avoiding any kind of conflict. I sincerely wish you the best in finding a resolution to this, or at least some way of making the situation better than it is right now.

I don't see why people are diverging so heavily away from the conduct of the mods into the specifics of the opinions actually being discussed. Unless you believe the views Helz shared actually are racist, grotesque or violate their Ts and Cs in some way, it's not really relevant. The judgement doesn't become more or less fair if the opinion is "correct" or "well-argued".

Whether the views can be feasibly misconstrued as racist is somewhat more relevant, but still only matters to the initial judgement. The subsequent denial of an appeal and lying to the community about giving Helz the e-mail is extremely cynical and clearly implies the community isn't just oversensitive but genuinely callous to the contributions of dedicated members, with no serious respect given to those who fall out of the "clique". Their "process" seems more about keeping up appearances than addressing misunderstandings and brash judgements or rehabilitating raucous members.

I know this has been going on for many months now and I don't think you (Helz) pursuing this for so long is good for your health. You may hate to hear this, but pragmatically it doesn't make sense to keep fighting unless you think you can achieve a different outcome. But it's your life, and I wish you the best of luck whatever you choose to do.