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[QUOTE=BigtheJonathan;947596]

Trump had a plan made specifically to protect the embassies preventing a Taliban take over, and an organized evacuation plan to leave Afghanistan. God bless Trump he's done so much for the country, no one even knows. But President Biden destroyed those plans resulting in an absolute catastrophe.
That's all I have to say for now.[/QUOTE]

Did you forget that POTUS Trump also publicly announced withdrawal from Afghanistan in public along with POTUS Obama back in 2014? [url="https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/30/us-generals-say-afghanistan-collapse-rooted-in-trump-taliban-deal"]His admin is also the one that signed a retreat plan with the Taliban.[/url]

Everybody sucks here from Republicans and Democrats, but my main point is that the withdrawal should've been kept a secret. You don't tell your opponents that you'll be retreating in 5 years time 'cause then they'll just wait 5 years.

Originally Posted by BigtheJonathan

Trump had a plan made specifically to protect the embassies preventing a Taliban take over, and an organized evacuation plan to leave Afghanistan. God bless Trump he's done so much for the country, no one even knows. But President Biden destroyed those plans resulting in an absolute catastrophe.
That's all I have to say for now.

Did you forget that POTUS Trump also publicly announced withdrawal from Afghanistan in public along with POTUS Obama back in 2014? His admin is also the one that signed a retreat plan with the Taliban.

Everybody sucks here from Republicans and Democrats, but my main point is that the withdrawal should've been kept a secret. You don't tell your opponents that you'll be retreating in 5 years time 'cause then they'll just wait 5 years.

[QUOTE=Helz;946646]Valid points. Trump is no better and arguably the cause of the timeline although I would point to (and took part in) the consolidation of Iraq that was well executed without any loss of life. Regardless of the timeline (and with my ignorance of politics) the 'withdraw' from Afghanistan looked like it was caused by some total panic retreat. Blame it on Biden or Trump but that never would have happened if whatever jackass politician had listened to military advice. I was not sitting in war cabinets in Iraq or Afghanistan but I am very damn confident no military commander would have willingly allowed that mess if they had half the resources they felt they needed to at least stand up for a decent fight.

I don't think the US will spend a dollar less until this tragedy is used as an excuse to go back and restart the war machine.

I do always like to point out how medicine and education are the only subsidized things and they are absolutely out of control in price which points to how subsidized capitalism only profits the private industries with the money to lobby while shifting the cost to the tax payer. It truly is a legendary business model for anyone who wants to generate profitable subsidization which funnels money from the tax payer to the private industry.[/QUOTE]

Blame Donald Rumsfeld for somehow convincing POTUS Bush Jr. to tangent into Iraq when their primary focus should've been Afghanistan from the get-go.

Another example of failed American leadership fucking shit up for the rest of us non-Americans trying to live our own lives peacefully.

Originally Posted by Helz

Valid points. Trump is no better and arguably the cause of the timeline although I would point to (and took part in) the consolidation of Iraq that was well executed without any loss of life. Regardless of the timeline (and with my ignorance of politics) the 'withdraw' from Afghanistan looked like it was caused by some total panic retreat. Blame it on Biden or Trump but that never would have happened if whatever jackass politician had listened to military advice. I was not sitting in war cabinets in Iraq or Afghanistan but I am very damn confident no military commander would have willingly allowed that mess if they had half the resources they felt they needed to at least stand up for a decent fight.

I don't think the US will spend a dollar less until this tragedy is used as an excuse to go back and restart the war machine.

I do always like to point out how medicine and education are the only subsidized things and they are absolutely out of control in price which points to how subsidized capitalism only profits the private industries with the money to lobby while shifting the cost to the tax payer. It truly is a legendary business model for anyone who wants to generate profitable subsidization which funnels money from the tax payer to the private industry.

Blame Donald Rumsfeld for somehow convincing POTUS Bush Jr. to tangent into Iraq when their primary focus should've been Afghanistan from the get-go.

Another example of failed American leadership fucking shit up for the rest of us non-Americans trying to live our own lives peacefully.

[url="https://www.reddit.com/r/dankvideos/comments/p54i34/the_taliban_hit_the_gym_too_hard/"]Isn't it obvious? The Taliban are too strong and are overwhelming the Afghan army.[/url]

There are a plethora of issues that plagued Afghanistan after we went to war with them. Many of these issues are excellently covered by [i]Turning Point: 9/11 and the War on Terror[/i] on Netflix. If you don't have access to it though, you can view another eyeopening documentary here: [url]https://youtu.be/Ja5Q75hf6QI[/url]

Honestly, the war was a loss cause after the Taliban were chased out. Killing bin Laden was a small uptick, but the country is now in ruins and primed for even more upcoming terrorist attacks on the West. Contributing factors:

1. The US deviated from Afghanistan and went to Iraq on unfounded intelligence, costing billions of dollars and lives. Thus creating the conditions for ISIS to fester.

2. US politicians are publicly announcing their war progress and withdrawal plans so the Taliban just has to get an English speaking guy to tell them when to prepare.

3. Taliban is a religious political group that any Afghans can adopt. Anyone from a small girl or boy to an 80 year old village elder can be a Taliban.

4. The US deploying drones increases civilian casualty and anger towards the US.

5. Only 43% of the country is literate, so this increases corruption in the Afghan government and army. Millions of money wasted because the soldiers are busy wasting ammo to look strong or to give their friends lucrative contracts.

6. President Karzai is a corrupt fuck who milked the West's funds.

7. Previous weapons US arms companies gave to Afghanistan from the 1970s and 1980s stayed there and ended up in the hands of feudal warlords and the Taliban.

8. All the equipment is fucking broken and are too expensive to fix.

9. Some of the soldiers are always high on opium and should've been kicked out.

10. The entire country is so fatigued with war for the past 50 years that they'd rather just let the bad guys run the show so they can have a bit of stability.

11. IED landmines are fucking everywhere, so it hurts the armies' ability to mobilize.

12. Afghans thought the US would do everything for them, but that isn't the case.

13. US army is ill-equipped to nation build, you need experts on the field to actively guide and direct.

14. Taliban spies will often join the Afghan army, steal equipment and info, and desert their positions.

15. Some of the Afghan army leaders are fucking gay pedophiles with their chai boy culture, so it hurts morale. Some of those chai boys are also Taliban spies.

16. The whole country is mountainous, so difficult to fight and maintain control.

17. Most of the news about progress to the American media is propaganda. They've done pretty poorly.

Isn't it obvious? The Taliban are too strong and are overwhelming the Afghan army.

There are a plethora of issues that plagued Afghanistan after we went to war with them. Many of these issues are excellently covered by Turning Point: 9/11 and the War on Terror on Netflix. If you don't have access to it though, you can view another eyeopening documentary here: https://youtu.be/Ja5Q75hf6QI

Honestly, the war was a loss cause after the Taliban were chased out. Killing bin Laden was a small uptick, but the country is now in ruins and primed for even more upcoming terrorist attacks on the West. Contributing factors:

1. The US deviated from Afghanistan and went to Iraq on unfounded intelligence, costing billions of dollars and lives. Thus creating the conditions for ISIS to fester.

2. US politicians are publicly announcing their war progress and withdrawal plans so the Taliban just has to get an English speaking guy to tell them when to prepare.

3. Taliban is a religious political group that any Afghans can adopt. Anyone from a small girl or boy to an 80 year old village elder can be a Taliban.

4. The US deploying drones increases civilian casualty and anger towards the US.

5. Only 43% of the country is literate, so this increases corruption in the Afghan government and army. Millions of money wasted because the soldiers are busy wasting ammo to look strong or to give their friends lucrative contracts.

6. President Karzai is a corrupt fuck who milked the West's funds.

7. Previous weapons US arms companies gave to Afghanistan from the 1970s and 1980s stayed there and ended up in the hands of feudal warlords and the Taliban.

8. All the equipment is fucking broken and are too expensive to fix.

9. Some of the soldiers are always high on opium and should've been kicked out.

10. The entire country is so fatigued with war for the past 50 years that they'd rather just let the bad guys run the show so they can have a bit of stability.

11. IED landmines are fucking everywhere, so it hurts the armies' ability to mobilize.

12. Afghans thought the US would do everything for them, but that isn't the case.

13. US army is ill-equipped to nation build, you need experts on the field to actively guide and direct.

14. Taliban spies will often join the Afghan army, steal equipment and info, and desert their positions.

15. Some of the Afghan army leaders are fucking gay pedophiles with their chai boy culture, so it hurts morale. Some of those chai boys are also Taliban spies.

16. The whole country is mountainous, so difficult to fight and maintain control.

17. Most of the news about progress to the American media is propaganda. They've done pretty poorly.