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/sign

I agree with Ren too.

/sign

I agree with Ren too.

[QUOTE=Lag;967487][SPOILER=HMMMM]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/z9WUWZQ.png[/IMG]
[/SPOILER]


[SPOILER=Who do you think I am??]
lmao
[URL="https://i.imgur.com/hEkADo6.jpeg"]https://i.imgur.com/hEkADo6.jpeg[/URL]
[/SPOILER][/QUOTE]

my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined

Originally Posted by Lag

Spoiler : HMMMM :

Spoiler : Who do you think I am?? :

lmao
https://i.imgur.com/hEkADo6.jpeg

my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined

What I don't really understand is if people are actively enjoying the save why it becomes such a large problem...

In the past we've had some pretty trollish (like 3 NK saves) or dumb shit like that being hosted and there was never really a problem, people just kind of laughed it off. What's the big problem now?

What I don't really understand is if people are actively enjoying the save why it becomes such a large problem...

In the past we've had some pretty trollish (like 3 NK saves) or dumb shit like that being hosted and there was never really a problem, people just kind of laughed it off. What's the big problem now?

[QUOTE=oops_ur_dead;967440]why are people replying to this[/QUOTE]

cause i can

Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead

why are people replying to this

cause i can

[QUOTE=lawson;967404]I mean let's be real, Elector is CRAZY strong. But how much stronger is it than Bonker? Bonker is also up there in the realm of insanely OP Neutral Evils.

I designed this save not only to include Elector, but to basically be Elector's wet fucking dream. And it still comes out balanced. HOW? Because I make sure that most towns have abilities they can use at night. Voting is typically the way town wins the game, but versus something that takes your votes, you need another way.

Vigi chance is insanely high. Vigi > Elector.

EDIT: Another thing to look at if adding this save is to be taken seriously is the Order of Operations for Elector's ability at night. It comes first, like DEAD first. Elector goes thru bus, Elector goes thru SR! If you did want to move forward with adding my save to Chaos Mode perhaps it should be sent down the list a little bit so Bus can save Mayor, etc.

EDIT2: Frinckles has a command?[/QUOTE]

I can safely say that after playing during the beta and getting 1 chance to play as elector: once mayor reveals it's game over for town if they're in the game. Once they reveal you can yeet their 3-4 votes for yourself, which gives you 5 votes to use to bully town.

Although I do agree vigi hard counters elector.

Originally Posted by lawson

I mean let's be real, Elector is CRAZY strong. But how much stronger is it than Bonker? Bonker is also up there in the realm of insanely OP Neutral Evils.

I designed this save not only to include Elector, but to basically be Elector's wet fucking dream. And it still comes out balanced. HOW? Because I make sure that most towns have abilities they can use at night. Voting is typically the way town wins the game, but versus something that takes your votes, you need another way.

Vigi chance is insanely high. Vigi > Elector.

EDIT: Another thing to look at if adding this save is to be taken seriously is the Order of Operations for Elector's ability at night. It comes first, like DEAD first. Elector goes thru bus, Elector goes thru SR! If you did want to move forward with adding my save to Chaos Mode perhaps it should be sent down the list a little bit so Bus can save Mayor, etc.

EDIT2: Frinckles has a command?

I can safely say that after playing during the beta and getting 1 chance to play as elector: once mayor reveals it's game over for town if they're in the game. Once they reveal you can yeet their 3-4 votes for yourself, which gives you 5 votes to use to bully town.

Although I do agree vigi hard counters elector.

yes

yes

[QUOTE=SuperJack;967412]play[/QUOTE]

u play

Originally Posted by SuperJack

play

u play

I like Lag's suggestion so long as both votes are completely separate and are not linked to eachother (or if you can make it seem like someone else is voting for that person, that would be a good way to confuse people).

There's a very,very fine balance in roles that influence voting power though, of which we discovered in Elector when it was originally put into mafia 2.0 before people removed for being overpowered (although yeeting 4 votes from the mayor was fun lol). I think OP's original suggestion is too self confirmable, so that balance needs to be maintained with something like Lag suggested in the post above.

I like Lag's suggestion so long as both votes are completely separate and are not linked to eachother (or if you can make it seem like someone else is voting for that person, that would be a good way to confuse people).

There's a very,very fine balance in roles that influence voting power though, of which we discovered in Elector when it was originally put into mafia 2.0 before people removed for being overpowered (although yeeting 4 votes from the mayor was fun lol). I think OP's original suggestion is too self confirmable, so that balance needs to be maintained with something like Lag suggested in the post above.

[QUOTE=DoctorZeus;967084]What is the mod being g referred to?[/QUOTE]

The mod as in Starcraft 2's Mafia.

Originally Posted by DoctorZeus

What is the mod being g referred to?

The mod as in Starcraft 2's Mafia.

[QUOTE=aamirus]Also it’s way more new player friendly to have 24/7 scum chat. I feel like playing your first game ever and roleing scum with no ability to get advice is a fast ticket to somebody never signing again[/quote]

That depends I think

If you have a player who has played the mod before for example (but never FM) they'll understand being thrown in as fresh meat. Plus you can get the scoop and explained everything during the night phase for advice. You just need to get through the first day.

Originally Posted by aamirus

Also it’s way more new player friendly to have 24/7 scum chat. I feel like playing your first game ever and roleing scum with no ability to get advice is a fast ticket to somebody never signing again

That depends I think

If you have a player who has played the mod before for example (but never FM) they'll understand being thrown in as fresh meat. Plus you can get the scoop and explained everything during the night phase for advice. You just need to get through the first day.

Makes gameplay for both town and scum I think way more interesting, as you can perform really off the wall ideas unlike with night only chat where things can shift during the day and you're back to being headless chickens.

Makes gameplay for both town and scum I think way more interesting, as you can perform really off the wall ideas unlike with night only chat where things can shift during the day and you're back to being headless chickens.

[QUOTE=Lag;966975]One change that we've been discussing making moving forwards is switching to using 24/7 wolf chats as the default on the site as opposed to the night-only chats from the past.

Anyone who has heard me talk about the topic knows I greatly prefer 24/7 wolf chat over night-only chat, but before I make my case I want to open the floor to the community to discuss the two options first.[/QUOTE]

I agree in the preference of 24/7 wolf chat


Why? Most setups that have it are more challenging for the wolf, plus I rather being able to do rather interesting strategies during the day, talking it over before executing most times.

Originally Posted by Lag

One change that we've been discussing making moving forwards is switching to using 24/7 wolf chats as the default on the site as opposed to the night-only chats from the past.

Anyone who has heard me talk about the topic knows I greatly prefer 24/7 wolf chat over night-only chat, but before I make my case I want to open the floor to the community to discuss the two options first.

I agree in the preference of 24/7 wolf chat


Why? Most setups that have it are more challenging for the wolf, plus I rather being able to do rather interesting strategies during the day, talking it over before executing most times.

[vote]LagAttack[/vote]

take my money.

-vote LagAttack

take my money.

If gov is revealed it's basically an instant gov death just to troll the town, better leave it to RNG as it is a benign role and not an evil role.

Abstainers being affected could be interesting though and make jester a bit harder to win as.

If gov is revealed it's basically an instant gov death just to troll the town, better leave it to RNG as it is a benign role and not an evil role.

Abstainers being affected could be interesting though and make jester a bit harder to win as.

The 3rd triad thought you made a good play too by shooting him just cause it worked very well until the end.

The 3rd triad thought you made a good play too by shooting him just cause it worked very well until the end.

Okay I scanned through parts of the replay, specifically the part where you kind of made the dumb and shot your triad buddy

you and the DH didn't notice it, completely unintentional. I did however notice that you were trying to talk to someone after a lynch that you thought you jailed, I'm assuming that's out of being new (I wasn't able to see points in the replay for some dumb reason)

DH Blundered with his doc claim, that is 100% on him. Dick move at the end blaming you (seeing as I presume you either haven't played for awhile or are really new) when you did end up making a very good play and fooled the town for a few days, only blunder on your part imo was at the end where you shot and the doc unfortunately healed. You could have played it off maybe by not admitting to be triad, but either way you were in a very rough spot near the end.

Shit happens, very smart play by you mostly with the error at the end imo. The triad you threw under the bus was basically afk anyways from what I watched.

Okay I scanned through parts of the replay, specifically the part where you kind of made the dumb and shot your triad buddy

you and the DH didn't notice it, completely unintentional. I did however notice that you were trying to talk to someone after a lynch that you thought you jailed, I'm assuming that's out of being new (I wasn't able to see points in the replay for some dumb reason)

DH Blundered with his doc claim, that is 100% on him. Dick move at the end blaming you (seeing as I presume you either haven't played for awhile or are really new) when you did end up making a very good play and fooled the town for a few days, only blunder on your part imo was at the end where you shot and the doc unfortunately healed. You could have played it off maybe by not admitting to be triad, but either way you were in a very rough spot near the end.

Shit happens, very smart play by you mostly with the error at the end imo. The triad you threw under the bus was basically afk anyways from what I watched.

[QUOTE=JeremiahSablan;955570]I mean poisons pierce through almost every protection ever, and unlike arso where he can be RBed from igniting his victims Poisoners poisons can automatically kill their victims. Plus with the kill being delayed you’re most likely never going to be detected by a LO, Detect, Agent/Van. Pretty sure poisoner was really just meant to be a silent but deadly killer… (Plus it wouldn’t really be that fair and fun if one NK could pierce through all protections, can’t easily be detected, and night immune, but the others couldn’t.)[/QUOTE]

I'd like to agree except the problem is in it's current form poisoner only really benefits the main evil faction

SK is much more effective by a long shot, the only NK that could be argued to be weaker could be MM but even then with NI and a bit of luck you can get a spicy spree off. NI or at least a one-two shot night immunity would be ideal for poisoner

Originally Posted by JeremiahSablan

I mean poisons pierce through almost every protection ever, and unlike arso where he can be RBed from igniting his victims Poisoners poisons can automatically kill their victims. Plus with the kill being delayed you’re most likely never going to be detected by a LO, Detect, Agent/Van. Pretty sure poisoner was really just meant to be a silent but deadly killer… (Plus it wouldn’t really be that fair and fun if one NK could pierce through all protections, can’t easily be detected, and night immune, but the others couldn’t.)

I'd like to agree except the problem is in it's current form poisoner only really benefits the main evil faction

SK is much more effective by a long shot, the only NK that could be argued to be weaker could be MM but even then with NI and a bit of luck you can get a spicy spree off. NI or at least a one-two shot night immunity would be ideal for poisoner

[QUOTE=Exeter350;954002]And thanks Frinckles for your hard work![/QUOTE]

Amen

Originally Posted by Exeter350

And thanks Frinckles for your hard work!

Amen

What you described if you lost could be considered as unintentional gamethrowing, but in my opinion that would be mostly the DH's problem and not yours (seeing as he encouraged it and you just didn't pay attention).

For the future I would say that you should be more attentive to who you jail; however, mistakes happen and this likely won't come to anything seeing as you appear to be genuinely concerned and apologetic for what happened.

Would it be possible for you to post the replay? If not no worries, it'd just show how dumb the DH likely was.

What you described if you lost could be considered as unintentional gamethrowing, but in my opinion that would be mostly the DH's problem and not yours (seeing as he encouraged it and you just didn't pay attention).

For the future I would say that you should be more attentive to who you jail; however, mistakes happen and this likely won't come to anything seeing as you appear to be genuinely concerned and apologetic for what happened.

Would it be possible for you to post the replay? If not no worries, it'd just show how dumb the DH likely was.

[QUOTE=Exeter]As Rufus says, players can still claim Survivor[/QUOTE]

I agree, they could claim survivor.

But as you know gov typically lynches surv claims unless there is a miracle. How often do you see gov lynch an exec claim that has already won?

It gives evils more of a shot at claiming a role and be believed than claiming doc, oracle, BG, sheriff (the list goes on)

Originally Posted by Exeter

As Rufus says, players can still claim Survivor

I agree, they could claim survivor.

But as you know gov typically lynches surv claims unless there is a miracle. How often do you see gov lynch an exec claim that has already won?

It gives evils more of a shot at claiming a role and be believed than claiming doc, oracle, BG, sheriff (the list goes on)

[QUOTE=MrMostache;954258]A lot of failors and gglantes are too much of cheapskates to use their shots on neutrals. You can still troll as NK the whole game and they won't exe/shoot you.[/QUOTE]

That's a community meta problem yet

People try to be too perfect with their shots, if you got a neutral you shoot the neutral especially if it's an exec or someone claiming to be one


[QUOTE=SuperJack]Night Immunity. But only available if Survive to end is also on.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, this makes the most sense. If that seems to hard what you could do is survive until X day (day 2, 3, 4, 5 as an option) not sure how that would work though.

Originally Posted by MrMostache

A lot of failors and gglantes are too much of cheapskates to use their shots on neutrals. You can still troll as NK the whole game and they won't exe/shoot you.

That's a community meta problem yet

People try to be too perfect with their shots, if you got a neutral you shoot the neutral especially if it's an exec or someone claiming to be one

Originally Posted by SuperJack

Night Immunity. But only available if Survive to end is also on.

Agreed, this makes the most sense. If that seems to hard what you could do is survive until X day (day 2, 3, 4, 5 as an option) not sure how that would work though.

[QUOTE=Varcron;954209]You didn't read [COLOR="#FF0000"]when[/COLOR] Ren's point was

As an NK you can no longer fake claim exec (get shot by vigi) then feign that you are exec and that it confirms you. I used that strategy in 1.0 as well and it works fairly well. Without it it basically removes an element of GF/Arso/SK/MM's gameplay as well as Execs own gameplay.

I think if survive until the end were implemented and exec were given night immunity it would balance out the role, as it would potentially force town to lynch them.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="#FF0000"]What* not when[/COLOR]

Originally Posted by Varcron

You didn't read when Ren's point was

As an NK you can no longer fake claim exec (get shot by vigi) then feign that you are exec and that it confirms you. I used that strategy in 1.0 as well and it works fairly well. Without it it basically removes an element of GF/Arso/SK/MM's gameplay as well as Execs own gameplay.

I think if survive until the end were implemented and exec were given night immunity it would balance out the role, as it would potentially force town to lynch them.

What* not when

[QUOTE=aamirus;954193]Executioner is by far the easiest role to win as. It arguably should have “needs to survive til end on” along with this change to make it have a normal win rate. I get people like being the invulnerable gets to pick who wins person but it’s objectively dumb lol[/QUOTE]

You didn't read when Ren's point was

As an NK you can no longer fake claim exec (get shot by vigi) then feign that you are exec and that it confirms you. I used that strategy in 1.0 as well and it works fairly well. Without it it basically removes an element of GF/Arso/SK/MM's gameplay as well as Execs own gameplay.

I think if survive until the end were implemented and exec were given night immunity it would balance out the role, as it would potentially force town to lynch them.

Originally Posted by aamirus

Executioner is by far the easiest role to win as. It arguably should have “needs to survive til end on” along with this change to make it have a normal win rate. I get people like being the invulnerable gets to pick who wins person but it’s objectively dumb lol

You didn't read when Ren's point was

As an NK you can no longer fake claim exec (get shot by vigi) then feign that you are exec and that it confirms you. I used that strategy in 1.0 as well and it works fairly well. Without it it basically removes an element of GF/Arso/SK/MM's gameplay as well as Execs own gameplay.

I think if survive until the end were implemented and exec were given night immunity it would balance out the role, as it would potentially force town to lynch them.

Oh, I forgot to say, Congrats!

You guys both deserve it.

Oh, I forgot to say, Congrats!

You guys both deserve it.

[QUOTE=Renegade;953265]Oh jeez which will abuse me first, Frinkle or Lag? Hmmm[/QUOTE]

Both at the same time

Originally Posted by Renegade

Oh jeez which will abuse me first, Frinkle or Lag? Hmmm

Both at the same time

[QUOTE=MrMostache;952557]Judge can also communicate with evils during a court, such as saying "Kill evens", which is pretty much the only useful thing judge can say.

There is no point in judge speaking at night, because most of the time they would want to stay hidden until they can ambush marshall/mayor.

In other words, Judge doesn't need the ability to speak at night, so I agree with this change.[/QUOTE]

It removes the variety of how you can play as judge though. Where you once had more than one option of gameplay (like witch can pick multiple different things to do to win with evils) you are now restricted to one way.

Originally Posted by MrMostache

Judge can also communicate with evils during a court, such as saying "Kill evens", which is pretty much the only useful thing judge can say.

There is no point in judge speaking at night, because most of the time they would want to stay hidden until they can ambush marshall/mayor.

In other words, Judge doesn't need the ability to speak at night, so I agree with this change.

It removes the variety of how you can play as judge though. Where you once had more than one option of gameplay (like witch can pick multiple different things to do to win with evils) you are now restricted to one way.

I actually disagree, this will make govs even less prone to revealing with even a slight chance of judge in the game.

Not only that, but night chat while not necessary does make things more fun.

Plus if you are crier and there is no judge you become extremely powerful since evils think there is an extra evil when there actually isn't one. A suggestion could be make it so judge has a charge on how many nights they can talk? That'd probably make the most sense.

I actually disagree, this will make govs even less prone to revealing with even a slight chance of judge in the game.

Not only that, but night chat while not necessary does make things more fun.

Plus if you are crier and there is no judge you become extremely powerful since evils think there is an extra evil when there actually isn't one. A suggestion could be make it so judge has a charge on how many nights they can talk? That'd probably make the most sense.

I like where you're going with this

Please make this a thing for future saves if it gets implemented, that would be fascinating to watch.

I like where you're going with this

Please make this a thing for future saves if it gets implemented, that would be fascinating to watch.

[QUOTE=RufusPL;952480]Visiting colored names n1 is just asking for getting MM/Forger/Vanguard/Lookout/Doctor/Bodyguard on the same target. It's not worth the risk.[/QUOTE]

Eh I visit them N1 anyways, it's pretty rare that you get called out or pranked by a doc/BG; at least in my experience.

MM though is a different kettle of fish

Originally Posted by RufusPL

Visiting colored names n1 is just asking for getting MM/Forger/Vanguard/Lookout/Doctor/Bodyguard on the same target. It's not worth the risk.

Eh I visit them N1 anyways, it's pretty rare that you get called out or pranked by a doc/BG; at least in my experience.

MM though is a different kettle of fish

[QUOTE=RufusPL;952482]Playing Mafia/Triad and Neut Killers is not fun in public lobbies. Most of the time u will be randomly found by some invest early on and everyone will believe them for no reason or even just randomly lynched because people have no clue how to play this game.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I can agree with that, it takes alot less energy to win as town rather than neut killing/triad/maf

There is a tip though to make you enjoy it a bit more: You only need to sound correct and sure enough to convince them, not be entirely correct. It'll save you hassle in the later days, and in the earlier days you can just hang low and strategize with your maf buddies if you're maf, or with yourself if you're NK

That kind of derails the thread a little bit, but I felt it was important to point that out.

Originally Posted by RufusPL

Playing Mafia/Triad and Neut Killers is not fun in public lobbies. Most of the time u will be randomly found by some invest early on and everyone will believe them for no reason or even just randomly lynched because people have no clue how to play this game.

Yeah I can agree with that, it takes alot less energy to win as town rather than neut killing/triad/maf

There is a tip though to make you enjoy it a bit more: You only need to sound correct and sure enough to convince them, not be entirely correct. It'll save you hassle in the later days, and in the earlier days you can just hang low and strategize with your maf buddies if you're maf, or with yourself if you're NK

That kind of derails the thread a little bit, but I felt it was important to point that out.

[QUOTE=hellow0]Actually, precisely because these experienced, point-wealthy whales tend to choose power roles such as veteran, it affect gameplay a bit. [COLOR="#00FF00"]Some of us assume they are all veterans, makes people stay away from them at least on the first night, due to the prefer system.[/COLOR] [COLOR="#FF0000"]I feel if the playing field was leveled, people will be treated more equally. Once they die, they can call their a super special salt ship for their privileged behind[/COLOR]; but when they are playing, they should get equal chance to land all roles like everybody else so the fun goes around, not just at the top.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="#00FF00"]This is a mentality problem, assuming that because they have colored names they are automatically a preferred vet. What if they're DH or GF? I get players don't like visiting colored names N1 because of the fear of death by combat, but if they're something else it could be important to see them.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#FF0000"]Salt ship if i'm remembering right was recently removed from the game. If anything I'd concur with nerfing blacklist, as that is the more powerful of the two functions by maybe limiting it to 7 roles.[/COLOR]

Originally Posted by hellow0

Actually, precisely because these experienced, point-wealthy whales tend to choose power roles such as veteran, it affect gameplay a bit. Some of us assume they are all veterans, makes people stay away from them at least on the first night, due to the prefer system. I feel if the playing field was leveled, people will be treated more equally. Once they die, they can call their a super special salt ship for their privileged behind; but when they are playing, they should get equal chance to land all roles like everybody else so the fun goes around, not just at the top.

This is a mentality problem, assuming that because they have colored names they are automatically a preferred vet. What if they're DH or GF? I get players don't like visiting colored names N1 because of the fear of death by combat, but if they're something else it could be important to see them.

Salt ship if i'm remembering right was recently removed from the game. If anything I'd concur with nerfing blacklist, as that is the more powerful of the two functions by maybe limiting it to 7 roles.

The top 1% of people in points can pick whatever roles they want, it often does not affect the game heavily and everyone else typically enjoys what they got anyways.

The top 1% of people in points can pick whatever roles they want, it often does not affect the game heavily and everyone else typically enjoys what they got anyways.

[QUOTE=Renegade;952435]More power to the players. I'm tired of sitting through games for 30 minutes being locked in to some shitty save because it is insanely difficult to get people to repick, tired of loser "vets" preferring all the power roles and doing whatever they want with no regard.[/QUOTE]

Contrary to the opinion of this thread I don't really have a problem with vets preferring roles.

Mostly because a chunk of the ones (currently) don't pick the same name so it isn't a guaranteed slot confirmed or scumlisted.

Basically it's pretty easy to hard counter someone that picks the same role all the time.

Does it suck to sometimes not get a role you want? Sure, but why would you play to get the same role 24/7?

Originally Posted by Renegade

More power to the players. I'm tired of sitting through games for 30 minutes being locked in to some shitty save because it is insanely difficult to get people to repick, tired of loser "vets" preferring all the power roles and doing whatever they want with no regard.

Contrary to the opinion of this thread I don't really have a problem with vets preferring roles.

Mostly because a chunk of the ones (currently) don't pick the same name so it isn't a guaranteed slot confirmed or scumlisted.

Basically it's pretty easy to hard counter someone that picks the same role all the time.

Does it suck to sometimes not get a role you want? Sure, but why would you play to get the same role 24/7?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28282[/ATTACH]

Figured maybe you wanted one where party host is doing their thing.

Figured maybe you wanted one where party host is doing their thing.

[QUOTE=Veliaire;950107]To a novice, anything that takes them out of their comfort zone is "trolly". An experienced player should be able to adapt without mewling about it.[/QUOTE]


This basically makes the veteran unkillable, self confirmable, and straight up impossible to take on unless you manage to take out the town around him (and if he has that knowledge you're already messed)

I can call myself pretty versed in the game, and I'm not sure how well I would fare against a good vet player with unlimited alerts as evil. For a novice it would be downright impossible even with luck going their way.

Originally Posted by Veliaire

To a novice, anything that takes them out of their comfort zone is "trolly". An experienced player should be able to adapt without mewling about it.

This basically makes the veteran unkillable, self confirmable, and straight up impossible to take on unless you manage to take out the town around him (and if he has that knowledge you're already messed)

I can call myself pretty versed in the game, and I'm not sure how well I would fare against a good vet player with unlimited alerts as evil. For a novice it would be downright impossible even with luck going their way.

Sorry wolves for not being the most active, couldn't really keep a decent game going with thoughtful posts.

Also I was kind of confused how that D1 train that fell on me managed to keep going... Wasn't really too much there in my eyes but oh well.

Sorry wolves for not being the most active, couldn't really keep a decent game going with thoughtful posts.

Also I was kind of confused how that D1 train that fell on me managed to keep going... Wasn't really too much there in my eyes but oh well.

[QUOTE=Light_Yagami;949245]So Three People Havent Voted Yet.. And Thats Fine Because They Are Bitches That Cant Pull Their Weight..

[MENTION=27307]Loldebite[/MENTION] [MENTION=45843]WrathCyber[/MENTION] [MENTION=43484]Varcron[/MENTION]

I Want Your Thoughts.. I Want You Engaged In This Game.. If You Cant Hang.. Well Everyone Can Hang From A Noose I Guess.. But If Your Balls Have Shriveled Up.. Like I Suspect.. You Need To Do Something..[/QUOTE]

I'll do stuff when I wake up tomorrow, like post my reads list.

Can't think right now.

Originally Posted by Light_Yagami

So Three People Havent Voted Yet.. And Thats Fine Because They Are Bitches That Cant Pull Their Weight..

@Loldebite @WrathCyber @Varcron

I Want Your Thoughts.. I Want You Engaged In This Game.. If You Cant Hang.. Well Everyone Can Hang From A Noose I Guess.. But If Your Balls Have Shriveled Up.. Like I Suspect.. You Need To Do Something..

I'll do stuff when I wake up tomorrow, like post my reads list.

Can't think right now.

[QUOTE=Veliaire;948965]Ahh. That's interesting, but how is it any different than targeting default names? Which I believe someone was permabanned for.

Not asking you directly, it was a rhetorical question. It just seems to me that name targeting of any kind would be against the rules, but I guess that only applies to defaults.[/QUOTE]

The difference in my eyes would be that colored names have 5000+ points and know that they are giving up their anonymity for a reason. Default names are mostly new players or players that want to run a low profile, you pick your poison.

I do still find it odd that people have been punished for targeting one but not the other though.

Originally Posted by Veliaire

Ahh. That's interesting, but how is it any different than targeting default names? Which I believe someone was permabanned for.

Not asking you directly, it was a rhetorical question. It just seems to me that name targeting of any kind would be against the rules, but I guess that only applies to defaults.

The difference in my eyes would be that colored names have 5000+ points and know that they are giving up their anonymity for a reason. Default names are mostly new players or players that want to run a low profile, you pick your poison.

I do still find it odd that people have been punished for targeting one but not the other though.

[QUOTE=Lag;949226]Are you still against a claim system then?

Also, kind of curious where your mind is at with respect to town/wolf reads. Day 1 has been a lot of mech spec which, while important in experimental games like this, is not enough. Still need standard town/wolfhunting[/QUOTE]

I did not explicitly say I was against a claim system

I just said that sometimes what you claim has to differ depending on if you found an obvious scum slip that no one else found.

My reads I'll be posting soon.

Originally Posted by Lag

Are you still against a claim system then?

Also, kind of curious where your mind is at with respect to town/wolf reads. Day 1 has been a lot of mech spec which, while important in experimental games like this, is not enough. Still need standard town/wolfhunting

I did not explicitly say I was against a claim system

I just said that sometimes what you claim has to differ depending on if you found an obvious scum slip that no one else found.

My reads I'll be posting soon.

I did just finish discussing the Ozy and there's something we talked about that he'd like to know (and me kind of, but not as much)

[MENTION=21928]MartinGG99[/MENTION] why wouldn't you be able to talk to SB16 until night with the 48 hr day timer?

[QUOTE=Marshmallow Marshall]You two are building scumreads out of theory disagreements, which is probably not scummy but also probably wrong. Also Martin, he's not "not allowing for other perspectives", he's stating his point, which is a good one imo. I just can't see how not saying who you're giving a token to is pro-town in any way. What we shouldn't state is our glue/health actions for obvious reasons, and probably all of the actions to avoid getting glued by scum.[/QUOTE]

Took at this as well and this looks like a strawman argument against Martin, haven't decided whether that points at a Lag/MM team yet but it could be. We'll see later as more posts come in.

I did just finish discussing the Ozy and there's something we talked about that he'd like to know (and me kind of, but not as much)

@MartinGG99 why wouldn't you be able to talk to SB16 until night with the 48 hr day timer?

Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

You two are building scumreads out of theory disagreements, which is probably not scummy but also probably wrong. Also Martin, he's not "not allowing for other perspectives", he's stating his point, which is a good one imo. I just can't see how not saying who you're giving a token to is pro-town in any way. What we shouldn't state is our glue/health actions for obvious reasons, and probably all of the actions to avoid getting glued by scum.

Took at this as well and this looks like a strawman argument against Martin, haven't decided whether that points at a Lag/MM team yet but it could be. We'll see later as more posts come in.

[QUOTE=Light_Yagami;949177]Also Lag Something Else Caught My Eye.. Based On You Defending Me Earlier In The Day.. Against Martian And Such When They Had Their Votes On Me.. Made Me Scum Read You More Then Them Having Votes On Me.. On Not Afraid To Be Voted.. Because I Know What Ill Flip And The Info You Get From That Would Allow You To See Who Was Pushing/Advocating For My Lynch.. I Will Flip Town BTW.. Either I Still Think You Are Indeed Scum..[/QUOTE]

I have missed something except from your past posts I don't believe you've explained why you think Lag is scum?

[QUOTE=Light_Yagami]Because , You Are Scum From My POV.. Granted The Evidence You Provided Did Correct My Original Thought Of It Having Been Mike That Had Done It.. I Still Wouldnt Put It Past A Wolf To Also Bring That To The Table.. Because Even If It Does Help Town Minimally.. I Believe That Action Helps The Wolves More.. Seeing As How They Would Know Who Has How Many Tokens As Well.. Giving Them The Ability To Kill The Players With A Higher Token Count... First..[/QUOTE]

If this is your reason for scumreading I don't really see how posting a lot makes Lag a wolf as he does that no matter what game he is in. I've been both scumbuddies with lag before (in the six man simple mafia game) and town (in every other game in existence), his posts currently are more NAI than anything right now maybe even a little bit towny.

Originally Posted by Light_Yagami

Also Lag Something Else Caught My Eye.. Based On You Defending Me Earlier In The Day.. Against Martian And Such When They Had Their Votes On Me.. Made Me Scum Read You More Then Them Having Votes On Me.. On Not Afraid To Be Voted.. Because I Know What Ill Flip And The Info You Get From That Would Allow You To See Who Was Pushing/Advocating For My Lynch.. I Will Flip Town BTW.. Either I Still Think You Are Indeed Scum..

I have missed something except from your past posts I don't believe you've explained why you think Lag is scum?

Originally Posted by Light_Yagami

Because , You Are Scum From My POV.. Granted The Evidence You Provided Did Correct My Original Thought Of It Having Been Mike That Had Done It.. I Still Wouldnt Put It Past A Wolf To Also Bring That To The Table.. Because Even If It Does Help Town Minimally.. I Believe That Action Helps The Wolves More.. Seeing As How They Would Know Who Has How Many Tokens As Well.. Giving Them The Ability To Kill The Players With A Higher Token Count... First..

If this is your reason for scumreading I don't really see how posting a lot makes Lag a wolf as he does that no matter what game he is in. I've been both scumbuddies with lag before (in the six man simple mafia game) and town (in every other game in existence), his posts currently are more NAI than anything right now maybe even a little bit towny.

[QUOTE=Lag;949218]Nice leading + framing question you got there.

Did you get help from your wolf teammates in crafting it?



Joking aside, I've repeatedly said that wolves get 3 tokens per day from each other, because there are 3 wolves and each wolf gives the other wolves one token.[/QUOTE]

I think in this setup if wolves do that it would be heavily reliant on them not being scumread/lynched as to not out the rest of their team. Very high risk play by the wolves in that case.

Originally Posted by Lag

Nice leading + framing question you got there.

Did you get help from your wolf teammates in crafting it?



Joking aside, I've repeatedly said that wolves get 3 tokens per day from each other, because there are 3 wolves and each wolf gives the other wolves one token.

I think in this setup if wolves do that it would be heavily reliant on them not being scumread/lynched as to not out the rest of their team. Very high risk play by the wolves in that case.

[QUOTE=Lag;949184]Do you think wolves would try to stop town from setting up a claim system so that they can give each other tokens without outting their teammates?[/QUOTE]

I'll answer this question even though it was directed towards Martin

Yes, I think most wolves would be actively against a claim system because if one of them happens to get caught and they have their love triangle going on then it'll be pretty easy to distinguish who are the other wolves.

If they lie with the claim circle too it will be fairly obvious as to who the scum COULD be.

Originally Posted by Lag

Do you think wolves would try to stop town from setting up a claim system so that they can give each other tokens without outting their teammates?

I'll answer this question even though it was directed towards Martin

Yes, I think most wolves would be actively against a claim system because if one of them happens to get caught and they have their love triangle going on then it'll be pretty easy to distinguish who are the other wolves.

If they lie with the claim circle too it will be fairly obvious as to who the scum COULD be.

[QUOTE=MartinGG99;949097]Rolled over?

Do you not see the fundamental difference of what I did compared to what Lag said we should do? Or at least understood where and how I was disagreeing with Lag?

[COLOR="#00FF00"]If I were objecting to even claiming, then I could see this as rolling over. But I wasn't. I was objecting to the presumption that we should follow-through with what we claimed we would do (Ex: "I will give token to X").[/COLOR] But that leaves no room for adjustment and is a fair bit unaccommodating to the fact that SB and I may not be able to watch thread like usual and have to wait till later for discussion with our confirmed-town-partner. Which in turn could put us in a bad spot in some circumstances.

This addition of "If X disagrees" or whatever allows for working within the plan, building accountability, but also allowing for ever-changing opinions in case our partner brings up a valid or interesting point or perspective. I just hadn't thought until recently we could just add this after any adjustments we may give based upon flip.

Example:

[I]I will give our token to W, unless X flips wolf in which case I will give it to Y.

If SB disagrees with what I said (or something else comes up) which changes my mind then our token will go to Z.
[/I][/QUOTE]

Yes, Rolled over

[QUOTE=Lag]Although also, I think it's valid to wolf-read people that refuse to claim after having the importance of claiming their tokens in advance explained to them.

Wolves have a vested interest in that plan not happening, if it means being obtuse or stubborn or contrarian to achieve that ends - then it's definitely in their interest to do so.
Maybe Martin hasn't exhibited that level of stubbornness yet to warrant a full on wolf-read, but if there's anyone by the end of the day who is still refusing to claim who they're sending tokens to, they're just >rand wolf[/QUOTE]

Nearly immediately after that post was sent, you said this:

[QUOTE=MartinGG99]I'll do it right now even:

I currently plan to give my token to Marshmallow Marshall's slot.

In the event that is somehow a no-go, I will give it to Varcron's slot.

For all intents and purposes, since this is early-game, I will be giving it to Marshmallow 99.99% of the time.[/QUOTE]

I know you're a great player, but please tell me how that isn't backtracking from ~4 posts before to then.

[COLOR="#00FF00"]That's not what you said, what you said was that you may go back on what you said EOD which lag called you out on. Right after he called you out you agreed with him and posted who you would sauce your token to. Call it a concession instead of rolling over, the principle is the same.[/COLOR].

Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Rolled over?

Do you not see the fundamental difference of what I did compared to what Lag said we should do? Or at least understood where and how I was disagreeing with Lag?

If I were objecting to even claiming, then I could see this as rolling over. But I wasn't. I was objecting to the presumption that we should follow-through with what we claimed we would do (Ex: "I will give token to X"). But that leaves no room for adjustment and is a fair bit unaccommodating to the fact that SB and I may not be able to watch thread like usual and have to wait till later for discussion with our confirmed-town-partner. Which in turn could put us in a bad spot in some circumstances.

This addition of "If X disagrees" or whatever allows for working within the plan, building accountability, but also allowing for ever-changing opinions in case our partner brings up a valid or interesting point or perspective. I just hadn't thought until recently we could just add this after any adjustments we may give based upon flip.

Example:

I will give our token to W, unless X flips wolf in which case I will give it to Y.

If SB disagrees with what I said (or something else comes up) which changes my mind then our token will go to Z.

Yes, Rolled over

Originally Posted by Lag

Although also, I think it's valid to wolf-read people that refuse to claim after having the importance of claiming their tokens in advance explained to them.

Wolves have a vested interest in that plan not happening, if it means being obtuse or stubborn or contrarian to achieve that ends - then it's definitely in their interest to do so.
Maybe Martin hasn't exhibited that level of stubbornness yet to warrant a full on wolf-read, but if there's anyone by the end of the day who is still refusing to claim who they're sending tokens to, they're just >rand wolf

Nearly immediately after that post was sent, you said this:

Originally Posted by MartinGG99

I'll do it right now even:

I currently plan to give my token to Marshmallow Marshall's slot.

In the event that is somehow a no-go, I will give it to Varcron's slot.

For all intents and purposes, since this is early-game, I will be giving it to Marshmallow 99.99% of the time.

I know you're a great player, but please tell me how that isn't backtracking from ~4 posts before to then.

That's not what you said, what you said was that you may go back on what you said EOD which lag called you out on. Right after he called you out you agreed with him and posted who you would sauce your token to. Call it a concession instead of rolling over, the principle is the same..

[QUOTE=MartinGG99;949090]I'll do it right now even:

I currently plan to give my token to Marshmallow Marshall's slot.

In the event that is somehow a no-go, I will give it to Varcron's slot.

For all intents and purposes, since this is early-game, I will be giving it to Marshmallow 99.99% of the time.[/QUOTE]

The fact that you rolled over as soon as lag mentioned that he may scumread you isn't a good look in my eyes. Then again, early D1 so this is just everyone talking out of their ass at this point

Originally Posted by MartinGG99

I'll do it right now even:

I currently plan to give my token to Marshmallow Marshall's slot.

In the event that is somehow a no-go, I will give it to Varcron's slot.

For all intents and purposes, since this is early-game, I will be giving it to Marshmallow 99.99% of the time.

The fact that you rolled over as soon as lag mentioned that he may scumread you isn't a good look in my eyes. Then again, early D1 so this is just everyone talking out of their ass at this point

[QUOTE=Lag;949075]Although also, I think it's valid to wolf-read people that refuse to claim after having the importance of claiming their tokens in advance explained to them.

Wolves have a vested interest in that plan not happening, if it means being obtuse or stubborn or contrarian to achieve that ends - then it's definitely in their interest to do so.
Maybe Martin hasn't exhibited that level of stubbornness yet to warrant a full on wolf-read, but if there's anyone by the end of the day who is still refusing to claim who they're sending tokens to, they're just >rand wolf[/QUOTE]

Claiming who you give your tokens to before the last 4 hours of D1 is dumb if that's what your implying here.

Personally I will not be revealing who I will send my tokens to until I have developed better reads.

Originally Posted by Lag

Although also, I think it's valid to wolf-read people that refuse to claim after having the importance of claiming their tokens in advance explained to them.

Wolves have a vested interest in that plan not happening, if it means being obtuse or stubborn or contrarian to achieve that ends - then it's definitely in their interest to do so.
Maybe Martin hasn't exhibited that level of stubbornness yet to warrant a full on wolf-read, but if there's anyone by the end of the day who is still refusing to claim who they're sending tokens to, they're just >rand wolf

Claiming who you give your tokens to before the last 4 hours of D1 is dumb if that's what your implying here.

Personally I will not be revealing who I will send my tokens to until I have developed better reads.

[QUOTE=Marshmallow Marshall;949071]I think you're town, don't ask me why :], and I don't see why Martin would be acting.

Also Lag, I'm voting Light because it's fun to do and because he already had votes on him. RVS power!

And I 100 % agree with stating who we give our tokens to AND LYNCHING LIARS. In this setup, townhunting will be important, and gambits are horrible because they can and will mess with town's choices when it comes to token-giving. Lynch All Liars shall be our motto this game.[/QUOTE]

The unfortunate part about it is that some big brain is going to decide to gamble even though it's an awful idea.

Pretty sure something similar happened in the 6 person game we played a few months ago (but that led to town victory due to scum blunder). For those of you that didn't play that 3 people decided to gamble a TP role and nearly caused a loss.

Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

I think you're town, don't ask me why :], and I don't see why Martin would be acting.

Also Lag, I'm voting Light because it's fun to do and because he already had votes on him. RVS power!

And I 100 % agree with stating who we give our tokens to AND LYNCHING LIARS. In this setup, townhunting will be important, and gambits are horrible because they can and will mess with town's choices when it comes to token-giving. Lynch All Liars shall be our motto this game.

The unfortunate part about it is that some big brain is going to decide to gamble even though it's an awful idea.

Pretty sure something similar happened in the 6 person game we played a few months ago (but that led to town victory due to scum blunder). For those of you that didn't play that 3 people decided to gamble a TP role and nearly caused a loss.

[QUOTE=Lag;949065]Changing what action you do from the action you claim in the thread is just anti-town since it defeats the whole purpose of the claims - to rob the corrupted side of their base 3 token income from trading tokens with each other.

I don't like that you're trying to set cover for this anti-town action one bit![/QUOTE]

Disagreed

Sometimes the decision at the spur of the moment is the wrong one and needs reconsidering.

While you are correct in some circumstances, depending what the action is changed to it is not necessarily anti town (keep in mind we likely won't see any problems with this till at least D3)

Originally Posted by Lag

Changing what action you do from the action you claim in the thread is just anti-town since it defeats the whole purpose of the claims - to rob the corrupted side of their base 3 token income from trading tokens with each other.

I don't like that you're trying to set cover for this anti-town action one bit!

Disagreed

Sometimes the decision at the spur of the moment is the wrong one and needs reconsidering.

While you are correct in some circumstances, depending what the action is changed to it is not necessarily anti town (keep in mind we likely won't see any problems with this till at least D3)

[QUOTE=MartinGG99;949063]Me and SB joined together simply because neither of us could be in the game as much as we would like every phase.

I'll see what we can do to ensure what we say before-night is what we do as what we claim may end up being reconsidered simply because the other perspective hadnt been informed enough or been voiced yet.[/QUOTE]

Yeah this makes sense tbh

not enough activity so tag team it as a duo; seems reasonable enough.

Originally Posted by MartinGG99

Me and SB joined together simply because neither of us could be in the game as much as we would like every phase.

I'll see what we can do to ensure what we say before-night is what we do as what we claim may end up being reconsidered simply because the other perspective hadnt been informed enough or been voiced yet.

Yeah this makes sense tbh

not enough activity so tag team it as a duo; seems reasonable enough.

[QUOTE=Light_Yagami;949058]As Ive Said Town Should Just Give Me All Their Tokens.. For Safety Reasons..[/QUOTE]

If I give you my tokens will you give me your cookies?

Originally Posted by Light_Yagami

As Ive Said Town Should Just Give Me All Their Tokens.. For Safety Reasons..

If I give you my tokens will you give me your cookies?