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[QUOTE=Frinckles;958257]Cheers HK. Great playing with you again. Your scum game is even better. c:[/QUOTE]

Why thank you kindly Frinckles. Some day we'll play again and we'll be on the same side.
NGL I was afraid of you finding me out when the game randed and I was right, you were early on me and really never let up.

Well played!

Originally Posted by Frinckles

Cheers HK. Great playing with you again. Your scum game is even better. c:

Why thank you kindly Frinckles. Some day we'll play again and we'll be on the same side.
NGL I was afraid of you finding me out when the game randed and I was right, you were early on me and really never let up.

Well played!

[QUOTE=Guillo;958247][CENTER][B][SIZE=5]POPULAR MVP[/SIZE][/B]

[SIZE=7][COLOR="#FF0000"]HOLLOWKATT[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Congratulations![/CENTER][/QUOTE]

oh shit that's hype! Thanks!

Originally Posted by Guillo

POPULAR MVP

HOLLOWKATT

Congratulations!

oh shit that's hype! Thanks!

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958193]Why didn't you push SB16 right away? You really think I'm an anchovy of a fish, huh? I feel a bit insulted.[/QUOTE]

My tone this game wasn't aggressive and I thought if I'd abruptly shifted into aggro mode it would give me away even more. If I'd been aggro the whole time then yeah, I would have come out guns blazing with a case on SB, but that wasn't the tone I'd built up.

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

Why didn't you push SB16 right away? You really think I'm an anchovy of a fish, huh? I feel a bit insulted.

My tone this game wasn't aggressive and I thought if I'd abruptly shifted into aggro mode it would give me away even more. If I'd been aggro the whole time then yeah, I would have come out guns blazing with a case on SB, but that wasn't the tone I'd built up.

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958192]Arrivederci. TBH you tried too hard. Being all pro like "here is what a pro bus is" is not a good defense.[/QUOTE]

funny thing is, I do that as town as well. Point out how/where I could have been wolfing but haven't be. Point out how if I were wolfing I'd have done a/b/c differently
It is what it is. Maybe taking SB to MYLO was the wrong decision, maybe Gikkle would have been a better call, but then how to explain why conf town is alive.

I also could have taken Brad instead of SB but then the argument again comes down to "why is SB dead instead of Brad".

Either way I felt the best way to proceed today was to sit and wait for someone else to make a move and then paint that person as the last wolf.

I did do two kills last night though ;-) Yes, you're going to have to wonder forever how I pulled that off.

The MM shot is one I always take though regardless of my randed alignment. Not only is MM a dangerous wolf he's dangerous to wolves, so when the opportunity arises to paint him as LHF I'm going to take it.

It really didn't occur to me to use the recharging card last night, but even if it did I wouldn't have done it. Maybe I should have ditched that instead of the Bus Driver that I ditched.

Regardless, GG PQR, you're fun to play with. You too SB and Lolde.

I messaged Guillo in wolf chat to let him know that you three hit majority and to end the game.

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

Arrivederci. TBH you tried too hard. Being all pro like "here is what a pro bus is" is not a good defense.

funny thing is, I do that as town as well. Point out how/where I could have been wolfing but haven't be. Point out how if I were wolfing I'd have done a/b/c differently
It is what it is. Maybe taking SB to MYLO was the wrong decision, maybe Gikkle would have been a better call, but then how to explain why conf town is alive.

I also could have taken Brad instead of SB but then the argument again comes down to "why is SB dead instead of Brad".

Either way I felt the best way to proceed today was to sit and wait for someone else to make a move and then paint that person as the last wolf.

I did do two kills last night though ;-) Yes, you're going to have to wonder forever how I pulled that off.

The MM shot is one I always take though regardless of my randed alignment. Not only is MM a dangerous wolf he's dangerous to wolves, so when the opportunity arises to paint him as LHF I'm going to take it.

It really didn't occur to me to use the recharging card last night, but even if it did I wouldn't have done it. Maybe I should have ditched that instead of the Bus Driver that I ditched.

Regardless, GG PQR, you're fun to play with. You too SB and Lolde.

I messaged Guillo in wolf chat to let him know that you three hit majority and to end the game.

'Ciao

'Ciao

[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;958160]Why do I engage with you[/QUOTE]

What kind of response did you expect?

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

Why do I engage with you

What kind of response did you expect?

[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;958157]Last night I was mad at him for his dumb blackmail theory.

I’m pocketed by loldebite here and at this point if he’s scum it’s whatever. I think he could’ve easily won by opening up with a vote on me. He didn’t. So I don’t think he’s scum.[/QUOTE]

file this under "things wolves need to say here"

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

Last night I was mad at him for his dumb blackmail theory.

I’m pocketed by loldebite here and at this point if he’s scum it’s whatever. I think he could’ve easily won by opening up with a vote on me. He didn’t. So I don’t think he’s scum.

file this under "things wolves need to say here"

[QUOTE=Loldebite;958154]PQR is literally giving up for real after saving your ass yesterday. SB doesn't have to convince anyone. If SB was the actual scum, then i blame you. You mentioned you "may or may not have a card that may or may not refill" but what was the point in saying that ? You didn't think about how to use it, apparently, nor did you discuss it with the town because you didn't even care enough to actually you had such a card.[/QUOTE]

Are you mad that SB pocketed you? Because you feel mad.
Blaming me for SB being a wolf is abdicating responsibility for making a shit decision. That's on you my friend, not on me.

Originally Posted by Loldebite

PQR is literally giving up for real after saving your ass yesterday. SB doesn't have to convince anyone. If SB was the actual scum, then i blame you. You mentioned you "may or may not have a card that may or may not refill" but what was the point in saying that ? You didn't think about how to use it, apparently, nor did you discuss it with the town because you didn't even care enough to actually you had such a card.

Are you mad that SB pocketed you? Because you feel mad.
Blaming me for SB being a wolf is abdicating responsibility for making a shit decision. That's on you my friend, not on me.

[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;958151]I mean, at least say I’ve been aggressive toward PQ rather than you. Because that would be accurate.

You’re defending yourself. nothing bad about that. If I appear mad about that, sorry, it’s not intentional.[/QUOTE]

I know. It's not me you need to convince it's PQR and you're attempting to browbeat him into voting with you because that's your path to victory. My point stands.

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

I mean, at least say I’ve been aggressive toward PQ rather than you. Because that would be accurate.

You’re defending yourself. nothing bad about that. If I appear mad about that, sorry, it’s not intentional.

I know. It's not me you need to convince it's PQR and you're attempting to browbeat him into voting with you because that's your path to victory. My point stands.

It's SB16, I'm parked, lolde is pocketed, his rage at his world view being questioned is indicative of being so close to the win and people have the absolute gall to push back on him.
He came into today with the plan to aggro hard against me because I'm his path to winning. He's been ultra aggressive today trying to push me across the line.

This is not town behavior. This is a wolf panicking when his win is being taken away from him.

It's SB16, I'm parked, lolde is pocketed, his rage at his world view being questioned is indicative of being so close to the win and people have the absolute gall to push back on him.
He came into today with the plan to aggro hard against me because I'm his path to winning. He's been ultra aggressive today trying to push me across the line.

This is not town behavior. This is a wolf panicking when his win is being taken away from him.

the only thing I'm going to say is this: If I was so outed, only took the easy shots, and bused Paopan why wasn't I a wagon D2? If it was so obvious that HK is wolfing yesterday should have chopped me. But it didn't. I was saved for today, for the wolf win.

the only thing I'm going to say is this: If I was so outed, only took the easy shots, and bused Paopan why wasn't I a wagon D2? If it was so obvious that HK is wolfing yesterday should have chopped me. But it didn't. I was saved for today, for the wolf win.

anyways, I'm going to bed.

anyways, I'm going to bed.

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958091]HK do you mind just admitting you are mafia? You are fucking up my health dude. I will be taking a long hiatus if i lose this shit.[/QUOTE]

I never have and I never would.

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

HK do you mind just admitting you are mafia? You are fucking up my health dude. I will be taking a long hiatus if i lose this shit.

I never have and I never would.

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958087]Is it is possible SB16 is town? And Lolde fooled us all? Like I know i tried to pressure you and SB16, but Lolde gets 0 pressure at all.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958088]Like I know you and SB16 are going at it. But what if we are fighting a TvTvT while Loldebite pretends to be silenced?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958089]work with me here. we need to figure out if it is SB16 or Lolde. would Lolde pull this?[/QUOTE]

Usually in instances like that I'd say they're threadspewed town. If I'm town reading them and so is SB and so are you then likely the two townies are right and the wolf is going along because they think trying to push on that person outs them.
If Lolde is pretending to be silenced we're never going to figure that out and it will be up to the three of us to find each other town which would mean it has to be lolde. I'm reading his ISO now and I'm not finding anything extremely suspicious.

There's some interaction with Martin that makes lolde look alright, namely how martin seemed to jump on lolde being proud of himself for making the start of the game instead of being late, and martin presses him on why being late would be a bad thing.

But then I get to his early responses/thoughts on Paopan and wonder if that's suspect. Lolde was one of the first, if not the first, players to bring up policy chopping Paopan saying "I still think that Paopan is best dead for town regardless of his alignment, so i'm always fine with him being a train on D1. " in post 169 [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49637-S-FM-338-Deck-Mafia-008?p=955785&viewfull=1#post955785"]169[/URL].

I don't have paopan experience outside of this thread and well he died very early so I don't really understand how lolde gets there. Lolde explains that by saying paopan is 50% fluff and 50% bs gut reads which in retrospect isn't really an explanation.

He clarifies that later by saying "if you're unwilling to listen to anything other than your gut reads it's a problem". Given Paopan was a wolf he wasn't ever going to have real reads this game, everything is going to be faked.

He also says this about you: "Mostly paopan. You'd be 33% fluff, 33% spam, 20% BS gut reads and 13% sense. So you're less worse than Paopan i'd say. " in post [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49637-S-FM-338-Deck-Mafia-008?p=955810#post955810"]193[/URL] which is like how does 13% sense get to "don't policy this guy". I dunno, weird.

I think this post is a good look for lolde: [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49637-S-FM-338-Deck-Mafia-008?p=956231#post956231"]602[/URL] mostly because he doesn't follow that up with a paopan vote. If he were trying to bus Paopan I think he'd vote for him there. That he didn't is town indicative to me. It's about the only townie thing about the post b/c the rest of it is talking about why paopan should be policy: He's good at wolfing and is a chaos muppet when he's town. Not a good reason to chop/ITA someone on it's own. Good for a starting point or to then review the posts from that player and determine if they're wolfing or not and THEN push, but on it's own, not great. Which is why not voting there is good.

I'm quoting his first (and maybe only) reads list here:
[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958087]Is it is possible SB16 is town? And Lolde fooled us all? Like I know i tried to pressure you and SB16, but Lolde gets 0 pressure at all.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958088]Like I know you and SB16 are going at it. But what if we are fighting a TvTvT while Loldebite pretends to be silenced?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958089]work with me here. we need to figure out if it is SB16 or Lolde. would Lolde pull this?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Loldebite;956267]Sean is also a stronger TR, because he insisted on pushing a town-favouring strategy and did so early which raised discussions to base our reads off.
Takumi Fujiwara aka Frinckles is a slight TR too, because he was the most opposed to sean's plan and i think his reticence isn't baseless, because as i said before it's very easy for scum to dominate and lead wagons on D1 especially.
Deathworlds is a slight town lean, seems reasonable and his support of sean's plan looks legit.
Martin is a slight TR, i liked and agreed with his read on PQR at the time.
DoctorZeus is a slight TR, because i also agree with the reasoning, in fact that's very close to what i thought about the slot in my first game with him.
Bradland is a slight TR, the entry was pretty good and constructive.
Hollowkatt is null, i don't think his indignation
MM is null for now.
Paopan is still his null self.
PQR has had good posts but also some strange/unhelpful ones, so he's null.
Gikkle is gikkle-y null, too. Probably less mechanical than usual, but how could it be otherwise ?
Mesk/Oliverz is null despite our reciprocated troll towncore claims.
SB is roleplaying me and will show up in 2hs. Null.
Boba fett's comment about how "town will go for hero shots" also struck me as odd, because i really doubt any decent good willed player would go against the consensus to [I]kill[/I]. I could see them refusing to shoot, tho, and that's why i null read gikkle. Slight scum read.[/QUOTE]

He's got a town lean on martin and paopan is a null. I wish I could see historical vote counts at posts in history b/c it would be interesting to see what the wagons were at this time. He doesn't have any wolf reads in his list, which is weird to me but I know that some players just don't make D1 wolf reads, they prefer to find townies instead and then whomever is being chopped that they don't have a town read on they're fine with.
Possible it's that kind of situation, you'd know better than I would.

The reaction here isn't good though
[QUOTE=Loldebite;956460]

[QUOTE=Gikkle;956448][VOTE]Loldebite[/VOTE]

Let's see how this goes.[/QUOTE]

Wooow i did NOT expect that ! Interesting, what do you expect will come out of this ? Anything you want me to do ?[/QUOTE]

That's like verbatim how I tend to react when I'm wolfing and someone throws down a naked/no reason vote on me towards the middle of a game day, especially early in the game. It's basically dismissive as hell and only serves to solidify gikkles desire to vote there. He did have gikkle as null in his reads list and at the time of this vote hadn't changed it so maybe he was thinking gikkle = wolf and decided it wasn't worth engaging with?

Here's the paopan vote:


[QUOTE=Loldebite;956479]Did you see in post game that i hoped i'd not die in case you were scum because i openly put you as my top TR ?
That struck me bad, man...

Anyway, you convinced me :
[VOTE]NotPaopan[/VOTE]

I'm parking a vote here to get more from paopan while you & sean go ham, waiting to see what comes out of it. Probably good stuff.[/QUOTE]

This reads to me like a pressure vote, not a busing vote or "I'm town and you're dying now" vote. Pressure votes are fine but you have to wonder because you ended the day early was this the landing point lolde was going for. It's not alignment indicative, just something to mull over I guess.

The way he opens D2 though with his reaction to you revealing you were the one that ended the day early feels really townie to me. The aggro in his tone seems to be pure of heart. I know that's not a great way to read someone in MYLO but yeah, it's pretty pure. Lolde definitely wasn't expecting that and he definitely was not thrilled with how you went about doing it, or your reasons for doing so. It really reads like he wolf reads you for it instead of trying to manufacture a wolf read on someone he was town reading the day before.

I think this is one of the things that solidified lolde = town for me during D2.

This is a post that needs to be read in its entirety though:
[URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49637-S-FM-338-Deck-Mafia-008?p=956785&viewfull=1#post956785"]1073[/URL]. I'll talk about it but I'm not rebuilding the quote chain b/c fuck this software lol

He does say he'd bus paopan D1 but that he wouldn't be the first to re-vote like he did b/c "I'm not that confident in my scum game" which is a thing I've been known to say lol
He also goes hard on you again for ending the day early but he's not trying to rally the troops to push on you, he's content to "yell" at you by himself. Maybe b/c Martin was town reading you and he didn't want to have to get into a discussion with martin as to why he's got a wolf read there that he's trying to get pushed across the line.

I don't wolf read him for it, I'm trying to think of why potential wolf?lolde would say that. It's reachy though and probably NAI

I'm getting tired and my eyes are starting to blur from reading tiny print on a huge monitor so I'm stopping here for the night.

Straight up I expected to come into this ISO confirming my town read and now I'm left questioning if I was wrong. Overall I think up to this point lolde is pretty townie for some specific posts, but there's enough "but what if" in my heart that I can't just windmill slam he's town.

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

Is it is possible SB16 is town? And Lolde fooled us all? Like I know i tried to pressure you and SB16, but Lolde gets 0 pressure at all.

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

Like I know you and SB16 are going at it. But what if we are fighting a TvTvT while Loldebite pretends to be silenced?

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

work with me here. we need to figure out if it is SB16 or Lolde. would Lolde pull this?

Usually in instances like that I'd say they're threadspewed town. If I'm town reading them and so is SB and so are you then likely the two townies are right and the wolf is going along because they think trying to push on that person outs them.
If Lolde is pretending to be silenced we're never going to figure that out and it will be up to the three of us to find each other town which would mean it has to be lolde. I'm reading his ISO now and I'm not finding anything extremely suspicious.

There's some interaction with Martin that makes lolde look alright, namely how martin seemed to jump on lolde being proud of himself for making the start of the game instead of being late, and martin presses him on why being late would be a bad thing.

But then I get to his early responses/thoughts on Paopan and wonder if that's suspect. Lolde was one of the first, if not the first, players to bring up policy chopping Paopan saying "I still think that Paopan is best dead for town regardless of his alignment, so i'm always fine with him being a train on D1. " in post 169 169.

I don't have paopan experience outside of this thread and well he died very early so I don't really understand how lolde gets there. Lolde explains that by saying paopan is 50% fluff and 50% bs gut reads which in retrospect isn't really an explanation.

He clarifies that later by saying "if you're unwilling to listen to anything other than your gut reads it's a problem". Given Paopan was a wolf he wasn't ever going to have real reads this game, everything is going to be faked.

He also says this about you: "Mostly paopan. You'd be 33% fluff, 33% spam, 20% BS gut reads and 13% sense. So you're less worse than Paopan i'd say. " in post 193 which is like how does 13% sense get to "don't policy this guy". I dunno, weird.

I think this post is a good look for lolde: 602 mostly because he doesn't follow that up with a paopan vote. If he were trying to bus Paopan I think he'd vote for him there. That he didn't is town indicative to me. It's about the only townie thing about the post b/c the rest of it is talking about why paopan should be policy: He's good at wolfing and is a chaos muppet when he's town. Not a good reason to chop/ITA someone on it's own. Good for a starting point or to then review the posts from that player and determine if they're wolfing or not and THEN push, but on it's own, not great. Which is why not voting there is good.

I'm quoting his first (and maybe only) reads list here:

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

Is it is possible SB16 is town? And Lolde fooled us all? Like I know i tried to pressure you and SB16, but Lolde gets 0 pressure at all.

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

Like I know you and SB16 are going at it. But what if we are fighting a TvTvT while Loldebite pretends to be silenced?

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

work with me here. we need to figure out if it is SB16 or Lolde. would Lolde pull this?

Originally Posted by Loldebite

Sean is also a stronger TR, because he insisted on pushing a town-favouring strategy and did so early which raised discussions to base our reads off.
Takumi Fujiwara aka Frinckles is a slight TR too, because he was the most opposed to sean's plan and i think his reticence isn't baseless, because as i said before it's very easy for scum to dominate and lead wagons on D1 especially.
Deathworlds is a slight town lean, seems reasonable and his support of sean's plan looks legit.
Martin is a slight TR, i liked and agreed with his read on PQR at the time.
DoctorZeus is a slight TR, because i also agree with the reasoning, in fact that's very close to what i thought about the slot in my first game with him.
Bradland is a slight TR, the entry was pretty good and constructive.
Hollowkatt is null, i don't think his indignation
MM is null for now.
Paopan is still his null self.
PQR has had good posts but also some strange/unhelpful ones, so he's null.
Gikkle is gikkle-y null, too. Probably less mechanical than usual, but how could it be otherwise ?
Mesk/Oliverz is null despite our reciprocated troll towncore claims.
SB is roleplaying me and will show up in 2hs. Null.
Boba fett's comment about how "town will go for hero shots" also struck me as odd, because i really doubt any decent good willed player would go against the consensus to kill. I could see them refusing to shoot, tho, and that's why i null read gikkle. Slight scum read.

He's got a town lean on martin and paopan is a null. I wish I could see historical vote counts at posts in history b/c it would be interesting to see what the wagons were at this time. He doesn't have any wolf reads in his list, which is weird to me but I know that some players just don't make D1 wolf reads, they prefer to find townies instead and then whomever is being chopped that they don't have a town read on they're fine with.
Possible it's that kind of situation, you'd know better than I would.

The reaction here isn't good though

Originally Posted by Loldebite

Originally Posted by Gikkle

-vote Loldebite

Let's see how this goes.

Wooow i did NOT expect that ! Interesting, what do you expect will come out of this ? Anything you want me to do ?

That's like verbatim how I tend to react when I'm wolfing and someone throws down a naked/no reason vote on me towards the middle of a game day, especially early in the game. It's basically dismissive as hell and only serves to solidify gikkles desire to vote there. He did have gikkle as null in his reads list and at the time of this vote hadn't changed it so maybe he was thinking gikkle = wolf and decided it wasn't worth engaging with?

Here's the paopan vote:

Originally Posted by Loldebite

Did you see in post game that i hoped i'd not die in case you were scum because i openly put you as my top TR ?
That struck me bad, man...

Anyway, you convinced me :

-vote NotPaopan

I'm parking a vote here to get more from paopan while you & sean go ham, waiting to see what comes out of it. Probably good stuff.

This reads to me like a pressure vote, not a busing vote or "I'm town and you're dying now" vote. Pressure votes are fine but you have to wonder because you ended the day early was this the landing point lolde was going for. It's not alignment indicative, just something to mull over I guess.

The way he opens D2 though with his reaction to you revealing you were the one that ended the day early feels really townie to me. The aggro in his tone seems to be pure of heart. I know that's not a great way to read someone in MYLO but yeah, it's pretty pure. Lolde definitely wasn't expecting that and he definitely was not thrilled with how you went about doing it, or your reasons for doing so. It really reads like he wolf reads you for it instead of trying to manufacture a wolf read on someone he was town reading the day before.

I think this is one of the things that solidified lolde = town for me during D2.

This is a post that needs to be read in its entirety though:
1073. I'll talk about it but I'm not rebuilding the quote chain b/c fuck this software lol

He does say he'd bus paopan D1 but that he wouldn't be the first to re-vote like he did b/c "I'm not that confident in my scum game" which is a thing I've been known to say lol
He also goes hard on you again for ending the day early but he's not trying to rally the troops to push on you, he's content to "yell" at you by himself. Maybe b/c Martin was town reading you and he didn't want to have to get into a discussion with martin as to why he's got a wolf read there that he's trying to get pushed across the line.

I don't wolf read him for it, I'm trying to think of why potential wolf?lolde would say that. It's reachy though and probably NAI

I'm getting tired and my eyes are starting to blur from reading tiny print on a huge monitor so I'm stopping here for the night.

Straight up I expected to come into this ISO confirming my town read and now I'm left questioning if I was wrong. Overall I think up to this point lolde is pretty townie for some specific posts, but there's enough "but what if" in my heart that I can't just windmill slam he's town.

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958085]It has come to my knowledge that the 5-post rule doesnt apply in MYLO.[/QUOTE]

makes sense I think. I don't run mafia games, just reskins of Secret Hitler mostly b/c there's enough bullshit in the world right now so we do like Secret Cthulhu, Secret Mall Cops (Cops vs Skaters), things like that

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

It has come to my knowledge that the 5-post rule doesnt apply in MYLO.

makes sense I think. I don't run mafia games, just reskins of Secret Hitler mostly b/c there's enough bullshit in the world right now so we do like Secret Cthulhu, Secret Mall Cops (Cops vs Skaters), things like that

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958080][MENTION=46060]hollowkatt[/MENTION] are you sure its StealthBomber16 and not Loldebite?[/QUOTE]

the longer he's gone the more paranoid I get ngl

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

@hollowkatt are you sure its StealthBomber16 and not Loldebite?

the longer he's gone the more paranoid I get ngl

but sure, here's some quotes to fill the time while I watch race cars


This is the first time he mentions paopan and it's with a vote that boils down to "you're good at wolfing stop downplaying your skills" which is not an insightful read coming from a villager but a great throwaway line for credit from a wolf buddy.
[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;956305]You had a very strong scum game last game and you were voted MVP in a game offsite. [MENTION=45969]NotPaopan[/MENTION]

I know you’re a better player than what you’re letting on in this thread. [vote]NotPaopan[/vote][/QUOTE]

This is responding to Martin voting him for no real reason. It's entirely plausible to me that SB is concerned that two wolf pack members are being voted for by other wolf pack members.
I talked earlier about thread memory and I'm a firm believer that early wagons can come back to bite wolves later in the game.
SB also displays displeasure with this vote that seems out of line with what an early game naked vote should indicate.
[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;956317]This irks me for some reason. I wanted… something? I feel like you should have some kind of stronger read or desire to leave your vote on than an inactive player who said they would be inactive by this point in the game.[/QUOTE]

I'll pull more later, my kiddo wants to play

but sure, here's some quotes to fill the time while I watch race cars


This is the first time he mentions paopan and it's with a vote that boils down to "you're good at wolfing stop downplaying your skills" which is not an insightful read coming from a villager but a great throwaway line for credit from a wolf buddy.

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

You had a very strong scum game last game and you were voted MVP in a game offsite. @NotPaopan

I know you’re a better player than what you’re letting on in this thread.

-vote NotPaopan

This is responding to Martin voting him for no real reason. It's entirely plausible to me that SB is concerned that two wolf pack members are being voted for by other wolf pack members.
I talked earlier about thread memory and I'm a firm believer that early wagons can come back to bite wolves later in the game.
SB also displays displeasure with this vote that seems out of line with what an early game naked vote should indicate.

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

This irks me for some reason. I wanted… something? I feel like you should have some kind of stronger read or desire to leave your vote on than an inactive player who said they would be inactive by this point in the game.

I'll pull more later, my kiddo wants to play

I have been talking about prior days though, I talked about how SB laid this down yesterday, I talked about how he's committed to extending the loldebite read he had earlier, and I talked about how he can't afford to push you.

I have been talking about prior days though, I talked about how SB laid this down yesterday, I talked about how he's committed to extending the loldebite read he had earlier, and I talked about how he can't afford to push you.

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958060]That is the playbook of the last remaining scum. It could easily be you. If you want to convince me, tell me more about D1 and D2, not D3.[/QUOTE]

I live in the now, man

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

That is the playbook of the last remaining scum. It could easily be you. If you want to convince me, tell me more about D1 and D2, not D3.

I live in the now, man

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958058]Are you sure it's not Loldebite?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=hollowkatt;958008]It wasn't clear that it was SB until he voted me. I already laid out why I'm the person he has to push today with regards to how he's treated you and loldebite throughout the game, and the way he was talking about me yesterday was clear he was laying groundwork for this push.
[/QUOTE]

I'm still here. SB knew he couldn't push you b/c you'd put up too much of a fight and there isn't anything I can think of that he could use to paint you as a wolf. He was pot committed to loldebite being town as well. Walking that read backwards now would be obvs expanding the POE which would give him away. He laid the groundwork yesterday for his push on me. Now he's executing it.

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

Are you sure it's not Loldebite?

Originally Posted by hollowkatt

It wasn't clear that it was SB until he voted me. I already laid out why I'm the person he has to push today with regards to how he's treated you and loldebite throughout the game, and the way he was talking about me yesterday was clear he was laying groundwork for this push.

I'm still here. SB knew he couldn't push you b/c you'd put up too much of a fight and there isn't anything I can think of that he could use to paint you as a wolf. He was pot committed to loldebite being town as well. Walking that read backwards now would be obvs expanding the POE which would give him away. He laid the groundwork yesterday for his push on me. Now he's executing it.

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958054]What do ya'll think of Loldebite's absence so far?[/QUOTE]

I wish he was here

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

What do ya'll think of Loldebite's absence so far?

I wish he was here

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958053]Look, if you are trying to convince me that you are town, you need to do better than that. Tell me what you think each player did and how they did it. I know it seems obvious, but talk to me like I'm 5 years old (because I am).[/QUOTE]

PQR, PQR, PQR. It's simple. Elementary, even. If you open your heart, your mind, nay - your very soul, the truth will come to you. Philosophers debated this question in the great forums of Athens, but even they were too closed-minded to understand the truth. The greatest thinkers of the modern era have grappled with this question. Hobbes, Locke, Descartes, Nietzche, Einstein, Watterson - all have buckled under the weight of the intellectual burden, because they too did not understand the truth.

My villager alignment is not something you learn - it's something you already know.

I'm trying to convince you SB is the last wolf.

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

Look, if you are trying to convince me that you are town, you need to do better than that. Tell me what you think each player did and how they did it. I know it seems obvious, but talk to me like I'm 5 years old (because I am).

PQR, PQR, PQR. It's simple. Elementary, even. If you open your heart, your mind, nay - your very soul, the truth will come to you. Philosophers debated this question in the great forums of Athens, but even they were too closed-minded to understand the truth. The greatest thinkers of the modern era have grappled with this question. Hobbes, Locke, Descartes, Nietzche, Einstein, Watterson - all have buckled under the weight of the intellectual burden, because they too did not understand the truth.

My villager alignment is not something you learn - it's something you already know.

I'm trying to convince you SB is the last wolf.

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958047][MENTION=15807]Stealthbomber16[/MENTION]
Ok, Mr. Competent but sometimes Stupid (it was not being mean, it was more like your thoughts kinda align with mine, you asked about Gikkle mech confirmation albeit a day late cuz i asked the same questions already - PAY ATTENTION). Whatever you do, avoid voting outside of HK. Feel free to express desire to vote me or Lolde if that's your thing. There could be a card ability out there to hammer someone with a vote. I don't want HK (if that's the scum, which I think it is) to win cheaply like that. So if you formulate any suspicions of me or Lolde, voice them but do not vote.

[MENTION=27307]Loldebite[/MENTION] same for you.

I don't want us to lose on a cheesy day ability mechanic.

I said avoid voting outside of HK because the game didnt end with SB's vote on HK, so presumably that's safe against a cheesy mechanic.[/QUOTE]

Guillo runs bastard games but something that could end the game with a single vote when there's 4 players alive is beyond bastard and I'd stop playing his games if such a thing existed.

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

@Stealthbomber16
Ok, Mr. Competent but sometimes Stupid (it was not being mean, it was more like your thoughts kinda align with mine, you asked about Gikkle mech confirmation albeit a day late cuz i asked the same questions already - PAY ATTENTION). Whatever you do, avoid voting outside of HK. Feel free to express desire to vote me or Lolde if that's your thing. There could be a card ability out there to hammer someone with a vote. I don't want HK (if that's the scum, which I think it is) to win cheaply like that. So if you formulate any suspicions of me or Lolde, voice them but do not vote.

@Loldebite same for you.

I don't want us to lose on a cheesy day ability mechanic.

I said avoid voting outside of HK because the game didnt end with SB's vote on HK, so presumably that's safe against a cheesy mechanic.

Guillo runs bastard games but something that could end the game with a single vote when there's 4 players alive is beyond bastard and I'd stop playing his games if such a thing existed.

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958045]Enjoy your time off after you get lynched. You played very well though.[/QUOTE]

I'm humbled you think I'm good enough to be wolfing here. I almost wish I was b/c I'd have laid a heavy bus on Martin instead of finding him townie from some individual posts, I'd have hard defended Paopan, and I'd have worked harder to have a constant thread presence. Basically I'd have been the second coming of seanzie for the rest of the game.

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

Enjoy your time off after you get lynched. You played very well though.

I'm humbled you think I'm good enough to be wolfing here. I almost wish I was b/c I'd have laid a heavy bus on Martin instead of finding him townie from some individual posts, I'd have hard defended Paopan, and I'd have worked harder to have a constant thread presence. Basically I'd have been the second coming of seanzie for the rest of the game.

basically I like my time off from the game.

basically I like my time off from the game.

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958041]No lynch for 39 hours from now, and I want to see if Lolde shows. Voting early accomplishes nothing other than indicate the plan for my vote. I will take my sweet ass time since I am forced to do so.

I will now put on my own lawyer hat. How does a player with all this experience since early 2000s not consider how to use their booster card? And choose not to use it at all.[/QUOTE]

mafia is not the only thing I do for fun nor is it the only thing I think about. Generally speaking when the game day ends my engagement with the game ends as well.

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

No lynch for 39 hours from now, and I want to see if Lolde shows. Voting early accomplishes nothing other than indicate the plan for my vote. I will take my sweet ass time since I am forced to do so.

I will now put on my own lawyer hat. How does a player with all this experience since early 2000s not consider how to use their booster card? And choose not to use it at all.

mafia is not the only thing I do for fun nor is it the only thing I think about. Generally speaking when the game day ends my engagement with the game ends as well.

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958037]Your choice to go with no cards carrying abilities is hurting us as you cannot be confirmed (unless caught by someone else or something). Now THAT is frustrating!

[MENTION=46060]hollowkatt[/MENTION] you better be scum or I will be pissed if you failed to use your ability to power-up someone else like me (if i could use my double lynch ability now, we'd be in a great spot as town).

Thing is, SB16 has demonstrated incompetency and is kinda consistent with it. You, HK, on the other hand, seem to use your lawyer book (and your own scum playbook, I think) to accuse SB as you are the 2 most likely unresolved Scum/Town. I saw hints of this D2 where your arguments go like "because your argument is flawed, I cannot be scum" (words are my own, for how I felt about it; it felt like you got sorta caught, perhaps, for wrong reasons, so you did lawyer defense). How could you fail to use your card to boost another player? You could have claimed to boost Loldebite at least, if you still had concerns that I could be scum.

I will repeat "SB16 is a slot I have very little recollection of." If I had a card to boost someone after seeing 4 consecutive town deaths (the 2 lynches D2 and 2 deaths N2), I would be thinking real hard N2 and assessing things during the night to figure out whom to boost. How does a detailed lawyer-like player like you not do this? It just doesn't add up.[/QUOTE]

I don't usually read games over night. Night is for resting my brain. I came into today ready to think about all the possible permutations and when SB voted me I knew it had to be him. I've seen wolves more often than not come out swinging at their chosen target because it puts the target on the back foot and establishes the wolf as a thread presence.

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

Your choice to go with no cards carrying abilities is hurting us as you cannot be confirmed (unless caught by someone else or something). Now THAT is frustrating!

@hollowkatt you better be scum or I will be pissed if you failed to use your ability to power-up someone else like me (if i could use my double lynch ability now, we'd be in a great spot as town).

Thing is, SB16 has demonstrated incompetency and is kinda consistent with it. You, HK, on the other hand, seem to use your lawyer book (and your own scum playbook, I think) to accuse SB as you are the 2 most likely unresolved Scum/Town. I saw hints of this D2 where your arguments go like "because your argument is flawed, I cannot be scum" (words are my own, for how I felt about it; it felt like you got sorta caught, perhaps, for wrong reasons, so you did lawyer defense). How could you fail to use your card to boost another player? You could have claimed to boost Loldebite at least, if you still had concerns that I could be scum.

I will repeat "SB16 is a slot I have very little recollection of." If I had a card to boost someone after seeing 4 consecutive town deaths (the 2 lynches D2 and 2 deaths N2), I would be thinking real hard N2 and assessing things during the night to figure out whom to boost. How does a detailed lawyer-like player like you not do this? It just doesn't add up.

I don't usually read games over night. Night is for resting my brain. I came into today ready to think about all the possible permutations and when SB voted me I knew it had to be him. I've seen wolves more often than not come out swinging at their chosen target because it puts the target on the back foot and establishes the wolf as a thread presence.

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958033]OK so that's what you did then. Got it.[/QUOTE]

If you're so convinced why aren't you voting for me?

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

OK so that's what you did then. Got it.

If you're so convinced why aren't you voting for me?

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958030]On that note, tell me your hypothesis for how Gikkle and Brad died and how SB16 and Loldebite were involved in that.[/QUOTE]

I know there are multiple cards that allow shooting at night. I also know, because of Deck Mafia 007 on MU that a single wolf can do the following in one night:
Night Kill
Role Block (if available, we had one in 007)
Use one card

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

On that note, tell me your hypothesis for how Gikkle and Brad died and how SB16 and Loldebite were involved in that.

I know there are multiple cards that allow shooting at night. I also know, because of Deck Mafia 007 on MU that a single wolf can do the following in one night:
Night Kill
Role Block (if available, we had one in 007)
Use one card

[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;958029]I have absolutely played games where scum can target themselves with their abilities, especially if they redirect them. Host obviously would stop the scum from fucking throwing but this is possible.

I immediately think of a game where a scum targeted himself with a kill because he suspected he was going to be swapped with the person he wanted to kill. He won off that play.[/QUOTE]

fuck that game host then that's bastard as hell.

i've been playing mafia since the early 2000s and have never ever been in a game where maf could self target.

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

I have absolutely played games where scum can target themselves with their abilities, especially if they redirect them. Host obviously would stop the scum from fucking throwing but this is possible.

I immediately think of a game where a scum targeted himself with a kill because he suspected he was going to be swapped with the person he wanted to kill. He won off that play.

fuck that game host then that's bastard as hell.

i've been playing mafia since the early 2000s and have never ever been in a game where maf could self target.

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958023]Eh, that's kinda BS. I am the one who tried to understand how Gikkle was mechanically cleared yesterday and several folks said they're not aware of games in which Mafia can target their own team member or have a strongman kill (e.g., on Seanzie). Now you're reviving my theory and giving it credit. Let's move on, Gikkle was town.[/QUOTE]

I expected to wake up today with gikkle dead, he was always the obvs NK target. Brad was a surprise and sad

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

Eh, that's kinda BS. I am the one who tried to understand how Gikkle was mechanically cleared yesterday and several folks said they're not aware of games in which Mafia can target their own team member or have a strongman kill (e.g., on Seanzie). Now you're reviving my theory and giving it credit. Let's move on, Gikkle was town.

I expected to wake up today with gikkle dead, he was always the obvs NK target. Brad was a surprise and sad

[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;958022]How the fuck was Gikkle mechanically confirmed town?[/QUOTE]

how the fuck was he NOT?

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

How the fuck was Gikkle mechanically confirmed town?

how the fuck was he NOT?

[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;958019]Because Gikkle looked scummy. You have the possibility of scum bussing their teammate into Seanzie to get around protectives because it's unlikely that Gikkle is going to get healed. Both players voted Pao so you can't use vote analysis to pick. I thought HK's theory of Frinckles was pretty fucking stupid and there was no way of coming up with it as scum (i was wrong) so I thought Gikkle was the more likely person to be scum out of the two.

Plus loldebite voted with HK yesterday. He's not going to shoot him.[/QUOTE]

In what games have you played where a wolf can target another wolf with the NK and then bus drive them to a townie? Because that is what you just suggested could have happened.
For gikkle to be a wolf there, and therefore brad the obvs NK, gikkle had to have been targeted for the NK by Martin, then Martin would have had to bus drive gikkle and seanzie. I've never ever had a game where wolves could target a wolf with the NK.

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

Because Gikkle looked scummy. You have the possibility of scum bussing their teammate into Seanzie to get around protectives because it's unlikely that Gikkle is going to get healed. Both players voted Pao so you can't use vote analysis to pick. I thought HK's theory of Frinckles was pretty fucking stupid and there was no way of coming up with it as scum (i was wrong) so I thought Gikkle was the more likely person to be scum out of the two.

Plus loldebite voted with HK yesterday. He's not going to shoot him.

In what games have you played where a wolf can target another wolf with the NK and then bus drive them to a townie? Because that is what you just suggested could have happened.
For gikkle to be a wolf there, and therefore brad the obvs NK, gikkle had to have been targeted for the NK by Martin, then Martin would have had to bus drive gikkle and seanzie. I've never ever had a game where wolves could target a wolf with the NK.

[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;958016]By filling in the blanks. If loldebite killed gikkle, he can't have possibly killed Bradland- the obvious scum kill.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry what the actual fuck?
Gikkle was literally 100% mechanically confirmed town. Brad shot and killed Martin, and shot and killed Boba N1. Brad looked really fucking townie but in no universe do wolves kill "looks really fucking townie" over "mechanically confirmed town".

Gikkle is always the wolf NK there.

Did SB just slip? Like actually slip?

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

By filling in the blanks. If loldebite killed gikkle, he can't have possibly killed Bradland- the obvious scum kill.

I'm sorry what the actual fuck?
Gikkle was literally 100% mechanically confirmed town. Brad shot and killed Martin, and shot and killed Boba N1. Brad looked really fucking townie but in no universe do wolves kill "looks really fucking townie" over "mechanically confirmed town".

Gikkle is always the wolf NK there.

Did SB just slip? Like actually slip?

[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;958012]Which means loldebite is confirmed town and it's between us two.[/QUOTE]

And you know this how?

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

Which means loldebite is confirmed town and it's between us two.

And you know this how?

[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;958009]The missing link, HK, is who shot Gikkle. The fact that you didn't take credit for that is what gave you away.

PQ is out of actions.
I have no actions.
You didn't claim the gikkle kill.

This means loldebite did the kill. That's the same kill that I would've done last night. Which means loldebite is town.

The ONLY other mechanical option left is PQ, because he could have done the Bradland kill last night since he has no actions. But you've already agreed that it isn't PQ, which means you have to think I did the Bradland kill.

What did you do last night, HK? Anything confirmable? Do you want to claim the Gikkle kill?[/QUOTE]

Nope. I didn't act last night.

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

The missing link, HK, is who shot Gikkle. The fact that you didn't take credit for that is what gave you away.

PQ is out of actions.
I have no actions.
You didn't claim the gikkle kill.

This means loldebite did the kill. That's the same kill that I would've done last night. Which means loldebite is town.

The ONLY other mechanical option left is PQ, because he could have done the Bradland kill last night since he has no actions. But you've already agreed that it isn't PQ, which means you have to think I did the Bradland kill.

What did you do last night, HK? Anything confirmable? Do you want to claim the Gikkle kill?

Nope. I didn't act last night.

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;958005]Eh... I think you are trying too hard now. Highlights(bold text) are my own.



The fact that you didn't open with "it must be SB16" seems to suggest you chose to be an opportunistic scum who wanted to see if idiot PQ would consider Loldebite or vice versa to keep your options open.

Stalling is fine, as it was stated there is no hammer today, so we sit for 40 more hours no matter what, unless a mechanic to hammer early is employed (I already used my 1-shot of that D1).

And if I got it wrong and it is indeed SB16, you have permission to call me an idiot and to give a WP to SB16.

If all of us got it wrong and it's Lolde, then we're all village idiots.[/QUOTE]

It wasn't clear that it was SB until he voted me. I already laid out why I'm the person he has to push today with regards to how he's treated you and loldebite throughout the game, and the way he was talking about me yesterday was clear he was laying groundwork for this push.

I'm not trying too hard I'm trying to win town this game. If I die here town is at 2-1, NK is parity. From my point of view today is do or die and if I die the game is over.

I don't think it's you because of how you managed D2 post seanzie dying.
I'd feel a lot better about the gamestate if loldebite was here and posting ngl. Someone missing from MYLO never feels good.

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

Eh... I think you are trying too hard now. Highlights(bold text) are my own.



The fact that you didn't open with "it must be SB16" seems to suggest you chose to be an opportunistic scum who wanted to see if idiot PQ would consider Loldebite or vice versa to keep your options open.

Stalling is fine, as it was stated there is no hammer today, so we sit for 40 more hours no matter what, unless a mechanic to hammer early is employed (I already used my 1-shot of that D1).

And if I got it wrong and it is indeed SB16, you have permission to call me an idiot and to give a WP to SB16.

If all of us got it wrong and it's Lolde, then we're all village idiots.

It wasn't clear that it was SB until he voted me. I already laid out why I'm the person he has to push today with regards to how he's treated you and loldebite throughout the game, and the way he was talking about me yesterday was clear he was laying groundwork for this push.

I'm not trying too hard I'm trying to win town this game. If I die here town is at 2-1, NK is parity. From my point of view today is do or die and if I die the game is over.

I don't think it's you because of how you managed D2 post seanzie dying.
I'd feel a lot better about the gamestate if loldebite was here and posting ngl. Someone missing from MYLO never feels good.

Like you and I both know you were pot committed in town reading loldebite, so he's never an option for you. My suspicion is that you chose me as your push target for the day b/c fighting PQR was going to be too difficult whereas there was enough baked in suspicion on me that my push is theoretically easier than his.

What you didn't count on was me actually being town and fighting for my life here. So unless you want to seriously re-evaluate the thread and seriously re-evaluate your reads on PQR and loldebite I think we're done here. You're the wolf and I'm the last chop you need to win the game. It couldn't be more clear to me.

Like you and I both know you were pot committed in town reading loldebite, so he's never an option for you. My suspicion is that you chose me as your push target for the day b/c fighting PQR was going to be too difficult whereas there was enough baked in suspicion on me that my push is theoretically easier than his.

What you didn't count on was me actually being town and fighting for my life here. So unless you want to seriously re-evaluate the thread and seriously re-evaluate your reads on PQR and loldebite I think we're done here. You're the wolf and I'm the last chop you need to win the game. It couldn't be more clear to me.

[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;958002]You're absolutely correct, it COULD be PQR mechanically.

It isn't. I will never seriously consider it when a far more scummy person exists.[/QUOTE]

Explain why you, as town, would never bother considering any other options

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

You're absolutely correct, it COULD be PQR mechanically.

It isn't. I will never seriously consider it when a far more scummy person exists.

Explain why you, as town, would never bother considering any other options

If you have something to out then just out it. Waiting for Loldebite is stalling.

If you have something to out then just out it. Waiting for Loldebite is stalling.

[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;957996]You aren't town. The last wolf is you. If it isn't you, then it's still you because it's nobody else.

Town won that game. Which means that player was still independently scummy enough for them to see through that. Frinckles was not indepedently scummy enough for you to justify that- which is showcased by the fact he was lynched with TWO VOTES.[/QUOTE]

I have no idea what your point is. It's my fault now that frinckles died with only two votes? You're assigning a lot of responsibility to me here. He had a wolf read on me yes? Why wasn't he voting me then? Why didn't he try to get my wagon going? Why didn't he appear to give a flying fuck at all whether or not he died?

You came into today "knowing" I'm the last wolf. You have to make this push because in your world view I'm the only one it could be. Yes I see you said "maybe PQR" but we both know you'd never seriously consider that.

Today was always going to be you coming after me from your point of view.
You've not re-evaluated world states, you've not considered options, you, SB16, have an agenda.

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

You aren't town. The last wolf is you. If it isn't you, then it's still you because it's nobody else.

Town won that game. Which means that player was still independently scummy enough for them to see through that. Frinckles was not indepedently scummy enough for you to justify that- which is showcased by the fact he was lynched with TWO VOTES.

I have no idea what your point is. It's my fault now that frinckles died with only two votes? You're assigning a lot of responsibility to me here. He had a wolf read on me yes? Why wasn't he voting me then? Why didn't he try to get my wagon going? Why didn't he appear to give a flying fuck at all whether or not he died?

You came into today "knowing" I'm the last wolf. You have to make this push because in your world view I'm the only one it could be. Yes I see you said "maybe PQR" but we both know you'd never seriously consider that.

Today was always going to be you coming after me from your point of view.
You've not re-evaluated world states, you've not considered options, you, SB16, have an agenda.

[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;957986]Mechanics also don't back you up here, which I will explain if loldebite claims what I expect him to claim.[/QUOTE]

explain to me how mechanics don't back me up here. Waiting for loldebite is stalling and you know it.

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

Mechanics also don't back you up here, which I will explain if loldebite claims what I expect him to claim.

explain to me how mechanics don't back me up here. Waiting for loldebite is stalling and you know it.

[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;957982]Because shooting your fellow scum who wasn't on many people's lynch radar when he could've very easily justified shooting me AFTER he was already down a player is a dumb play. Frinckles isn't dumb. I absolutely was not wondering if Frinckles was bussing Martin because he fucking shot him. That's not bussing. That's attempted murder, which is a whole different box. I don't think most skilled players will take a 30% chance of losing their scum mate to bus. I also specifically don't think that Frinckles would do that due to player meta- he's not the type of player to leave things up to RNG.

I don't have to justify why Loldebite is town. I just have to justify why you're scum. Do not try to shift my goalposts.[/QUOTE]

From my perspective you need to justify everything. I know I'm town, I believe lolde is town and I believe PQR is town. That leaves you. If I'm wrong and you are town and I am town where then is the last wolf?

Did you not pay attention when I talked about the last Deck Mafia game on MU where wolf #3 shot her partner wolf #4 on D2 and rode that credit to the end of the game? It is 100% something a savvy wolf could (and maybe even should do) in that situation because holy fuck the credit you get out of it.
The only reason it caught my eye that way when Frinckles did it is he seemed too eager to take the shot, and if he'd hit and was the last wolf I think he auto-wins this.

Was I wrong? Yes. Would I make that exact push again? Absofuckinglutely yes I would.

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

Because shooting your fellow scum who wasn't on many people's lynch radar when he could've very easily justified shooting me AFTER he was already down a player is a dumb play. Frinckles isn't dumb. I absolutely was not wondering if Frinckles was bussing Martin because he fucking shot him. That's not bussing. That's attempted murder, which is a whole different box. I don't think most skilled players will take a 30% chance of losing their scum mate to bus. I also specifically don't think that Frinckles would do that due to player meta- he's not the type of player to leave things up to RNG.

I don't have to justify why Loldebite is town. I just have to justify why you're scum. Do not try to shift my goalposts.

From my perspective you need to justify everything. I know I'm town, I believe lolde is town and I believe PQR is town. That leaves you. If I'm wrong and you are town and I am town where then is the last wolf?

Did you not pay attention when I talked about the last Deck Mafia game on MU where wolf #3 shot her partner wolf #4 on D2 and rode that credit to the end of the game? It is 100% something a savvy wolf could (and maybe even should do) in that situation because holy fuck the credit you get out of it.
The only reason it caught my eye that way when Frinckles did it is he seemed too eager to take the shot, and if he'd hit and was the last wolf I think he auto-wins this.

Was I wrong? Yes. Would I make that exact push again? Absofuckinglutely yes I would.

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;957981]So [MENTION=46060]hollowkatt[/MENTION] you want me to believe SB16 bussed Paopan this hard D1? And that Paopan confessed to his scummate in his wall to troll town with this easter egg, where Paopan said[/QUOTE]

Having written almost that exact post as a wolf before, why is that impossible to imagine?

I mean it's the same argument Frinckles used against me isn't it? HK is good at busing therefore he's a wolf. Even though he was only in this game for a day I learned that Paopan is clearly a chaos muppet who will say whatever it is he wants to say whenever he wants to say it. I'm not sure there's valid/useful spew to be looking at there.

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

So @hollowkatt you want me to believe SB16 bussed Paopan this hard D1? And that Paopan confessed to his scummate in his wall to troll town with this easter egg, where Paopan said

Having written almost that exact post as a wolf before, why is that impossible to imagine?

I mean it's the same argument Frinckles used against me isn't it? HK is good at busing therefore he's a wolf. Even though he was only in this game for a day I learned that Paopan is clearly a chaos muppet who will say whatever it is he wants to say whenever he wants to say it. I'm not sure there's valid/useful spew to be looking at there.

[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;957970]He voted Frinckles, who

1. Correctly scumread Martin from the start of day 2
2. Pushed and prodded Martin in his posts
3. Shot Martin, who flipped scum[/QUOTE]

[VOTE]Stealthbomber16[/VOTE]

Yeah, I absolutely did vote Frinckles yesterday and the reason behind it is really simple, it's already in the thread from me today. His case on me was extremely limited to "vote position on Paopan bad, and also HK is good at busing". It never evolved, he never explored other options, and he wasn't trying to solve the game. He was hyper focused on me for those reasons, and he tried shooting martin [I]prior[/I] to the start of ITAs and when Martin did eventually flip (thanks Brad!) my first thought was "is frinckles trying to get credit to go deep" and the reason I thought that was he saw how effective it was when I did it on MU.

Sure in hindsight with frinckles being town you can say all the things you said up there, but if we hadn't flipped him everyone would be wondering "was that a bus"?

[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;957971]I’m consistent. I viewed Frinckles as pretty much confirmed town following those events, just as I feel I should be pretty much confirmed town following day 1.

Who shot Gikkle? Brad was the scum kill for sure. [MENTION=27307]Loldebite[/MENTION] did you shoot Gikkle?[/QUOTE]

I want to know how you thought Frinckles was pretty much confirmed town after that. Why did it never cross your mind he could have been busing? Why did it never occur to you that he may have been looking for credit.

The problem I have with that play is you've been working on assumptions instead of analysis. One thing that I see over and over from wolves is "this person is just town" without any kind of consideration as to [I]why[/I] they're town or how the read developed.

Your read on me is "HK helped chop the person who shot at martin and laid a case there" but there was zero thought as to whether or not that could have been theater and a bus. This is stale from you and exactly what I'd expect from the wolf in your position.

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

He voted Frinckles, who

1. Correctly scumread Martin from the start of day 2
2. Pushed and prodded Martin in his posts
3. Shot Martin, who flipped scum

-vote Stealthbomber16

Yeah, I absolutely did vote Frinckles yesterday and the reason behind it is really simple, it's already in the thread from me today. His case on me was extremely limited to "vote position on Paopan bad, and also HK is good at busing". It never evolved, he never explored other options, and he wasn't trying to solve the game. He was hyper focused on me for those reasons, and he tried shooting martin prior to the start of ITAs and when Martin did eventually flip (thanks Brad!) my first thought was "is frinckles trying to get credit to go deep" and the reason I thought that was he saw how effective it was when I did it on MU.

Sure in hindsight with frinckles being town you can say all the things you said up there, but if we hadn't flipped him everyone would be wondering "was that a bus"?

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

I’m consistent. I viewed Frinckles as pretty much confirmed town following those events, just as I feel I should be pretty much confirmed town following day 1.

Who shot Gikkle? Brad was the scum kill for sure. @Loldebite did you shoot Gikkle?

I want to know how you thought Frinckles was pretty much confirmed town after that. Why did it never cross your mind he could have been busing? Why did it never occur to you that he may have been looking for credit.

The problem I have with that play is you've been working on assumptions instead of analysis. One thing that I see over and over from wolves is "this person is just town" without any kind of consideration as to why they're town or how the read developed.

Your read on me is "HK helped chop the person who shot at martin and laid a case there" but there was zero thought as to whether or not that could have been theater and a bus. This is stale from you and exactly what I'd expect from the wolf in your position.

I've got some errands to run and I'll be reading SB16 while I'm doing that. @ me if there's any questions you want answered.

I've got some errands to run and I'll be reading SB16 while I'm doing that. @ me if there's any questions you want answered.

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;957958]Wait, did you use it on yourself to recharge your killshot? :)[/QUOTE]

I can't target myself with it and even if I did I don't think anyone was less than 15 posts yesterday (I didn't count)

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

Wait, did you use it on yourself to recharge your killshot?

I can't target myself with it and even if I did I don't think anyone was less than 15 posts yesterday (I didn't count)

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;957957]So why didn't you use it on me last night? I could have activated another double lynch today.[/QUOTE]

it never crossed my mind? good idea though for the next game!

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

So why didn't you use it on me last night? I could have activated another double lynch today.

it never crossed my mind? good idea though for the next game!

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;957955]Is it a Day or Night ability and when does it go in effect for the targeted player?[/QUOTE]

it's a night ability. I'm not entirely sure when it goes into effect. The card says, paraphrased: target a player to charge them with an extra shot to use any limited power they may or may not have.

I haven't brought it to a deck mafia game in a while but it was fun the last time I brought it. Lag and I caught like 3 baddies together that game.

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

Is it a Day or Night ability and when does it go in effect for the targeted player?

it's a night ability. I'm not entirely sure when it goes into effect. The card says, paraphrased: target a player to charge them with an extra shot to use any limited power they may or may not have.

I haven't brought it to a deck mafia game in a while but it was fun the last time I brought it. Lag and I caught like 3 baddies together that game.

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;957949]As we are in MYLO, are you open to paraphrasing the cards you have? That alleged low-activity shot on MM Is looking kinda sus when I see that N2 mafia had a 2nd kill.[/QUOTE]

the only card I have left is one that allows me to target a player, that player gets an extra use out of one of their spent cards.

I used inactivity vig on MM N1, I can't explain two kills last night other than to say neither of them surprise me. Brad killed Martin = functionally confirmed, and gikkle was mech confirmed via the bus drive once martin flipped.

Originally Posted by PQRnHack

As we are in MYLO, are you open to paraphrasing the cards you have? That alleged low-activity shot on MM Is looking kinda sus when I see that N2 mafia had a 2nd kill.

the only card I have left is one that allows me to target a player, that player gets an extra use out of one of their spent cards.

I used inactivity vig on MM N1, I can't explain two kills last night other than to say neither of them surprise me. Brad killed Martin = functionally confirmed, and gikkle was mech confirmed via the bus drive once martin flipped.