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If people don't like it, they can repick.

I've never even seen people even complain about the 2 constable save and I've played it over a dozen times already completely unaware of its origins.

The only problem that exists here is that a couple of people with poor character want to force their opinions, their tastes, their idea of what is ethical and what isn't in a video game, onto the majority. They don't like how the democratic repick system doesn't vote """correctly""", so they are asking admins to intervene on their behalf.

If people don't like it, they can repick.

I've never even seen people even complain about the 2 constable save and I've played it over a dozen times already completely unaware of its origins.

The only problem that exists here is that a couple of people with poor character want to force their opinions, their tastes, their idea of what is ethical and what isn't in a video game, onto the majority. They don't like how the democratic repick system doesn't vote """correctly""", so they are asking admins to intervene on their behalf.

People are just trying to have fun. Chaos is fun. New, untested saves are fun. The new and unknown is fun. I LIKE Law's saves. I LIKE these weird crazy saves with two Constables, I actually thought the 2 constable save was a legal one until browsing this thread. And plenty of other people like them too.


You know what isn't fun? Doing the same 933 formula over and over again. Or having to share a space with individuals with diagnosed personality disorders condescendingly telling other people what they can and cannot enjoy looking like this:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28956[/ATTACH]

You need to lighten up Renegade. Maybe touch grass while you're at it.

People are just trying to have fun. Chaos is fun. New, untested saves are fun. The new and unknown is fun. I LIKE Law's saves. I LIKE these weird crazy saves with two Constables, I actually thought the 2 constable save was a legal one until browsing this thread. And plenty of other people like them too.


You know what isn't fun? Doing the same 933 formula over and over again. Or having to share a space with individuals with diagnosed personality disorders condescendingly telling other people what they can and cannot enjoy looking like this:



You need to lighten up Renegade. Maybe touch grass while you're at it.

[QUOTE=Renegade;973428]These illegal saves are making it out into the wild, courtesy of Law.

Just now someone who isn't law is hosting a double constable save.[/QUOTE]

Holy shit, this is like the time when Jessie from the hit TV series Breaking Bad snuck meth into a drug addicts anonymous meeting.

Originally Posted by Renegade

These illegal saves are making it out into the wild, courtesy of Law.

Just now someone who isn't law is hosting a double constable save.

Holy shit, this is like the time when Jessie from the hit TV series Breaking Bad snuck meth into a drug addicts anonymous meeting.

>this thread

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28955[/ATTACH]

>this thread

Virtually every lobby including the one I am playing in right now contains some problematic -ism that go unpassed because outside of one mod I see every now and then, you moderators do not play your own game. And furthermore, the players do not care enough to report. Like hell I'm going to help any of you and report it myself.

I like this game. Frankly, my only bad experiences with this game were nearly 10 years ago when there was an overabundance of moderators who paid money for their position, then abused their privileges in lobbies. In fact that was part of the original reason why I even made this account in 2013, then stopped posting for nearly a decade. This game has been fine since I resumed around 2019 or so beyond slow lobbies. I seriously hope you all realize that as caretakers of a dying mod of a dying game - see the value in protecting and nurturing your creation, because it is fun and people like it, as opposed to killing it. There should be no need to make up a heroic grand narrative with a moral objective that is impossible to fulfill. If moral fulfillment is what you really want in your life, there are better vectors for that than StarCraft 2.

Virtually every lobby including the one I am playing in right now contains some problematic -ism that go unpassed because outside of one mod I see every now and then, you moderators do not play your own game. And furthermore, the players do not care enough to report. Like hell I'm going to help any of you and report it myself.

I like this game. Frankly, my only bad experiences with this game were nearly 10 years ago when there was an overabundance of moderators who paid money for their position, then abused their privileges in lobbies. In fact that was part of the original reason why I even made this account in 2013, then stopped posting for nearly a decade. This game has been fine since I resumed around 2019 or so beyond slow lobbies. I seriously hope you all realize that as caretakers of a dying mod of a dying game - see the value in protecting and nurturing your creation, because it is fun and people like it, as opposed to killing it. There should be no need to make up a heroic grand narrative with a moral objective that is impossible to fulfill. If moral fulfillment is what you really want in your life, there are better vectors for that than StarCraft 2.

[QUOTE=Lag;963859]Another interesting statistic I found from that data set was that the people that defended the use of "off-color speech" as "a part of the culture of the playerbase" and claimed that cracking down on it would result in losing players were invariably also serial participants in such "off-color speech"

Perhaps they see such "off-color speech" everywhere they go because they're the ones using it?[/QUOTE]

Did you actually read your own post? First, your methodologies are not posted. For all we know your list of slurs that your bot scanned for consisted of little more than the n-word and the k-word, when if you actually played the game the use of racial slurs stems far beyond the n word and also includes pun variations which would not be picked up for by the bot. Anti-Kurdish racism, Yugoslavian racism, anti-Chinese racism, anti-Indian racism, anti-Turkish racism etc, I have seen all of these in significant quantities, especially because they are now trendy. Saddam Hussein has gained a lot popularity in the last couple of years. Yugoslavian racism has always been present. Indian racism has always been present especially when PewdiePie popularized "bobs and vagene". Anti-Chinese racism has increased since the pandemic. Anti-Turkish racism became prevalent after the incursion of Turkey into the Syrian Civil War.

Does your bot scan for references to "Kung Flu"? Does your bot scan for slurs in other languages? Does your bot scan for anglicizations? Does your bot scan for "Hohols", "gypsy", "riggers", "small hat", "long nose", "cockroach", "moon cricket", "snow monkey", "red skin", "shekels", "jungle asian", "pajeet", "kebab", "ass bandit", "hon", "AGP", "beaner", "ching chong", "wetback", "kang", "curry", "YWNBAW", "train", "locomotive", "troon", "oreo", "BBC", "sand people", "dunecoon", "towel head", "suicide bomber", "goy", "wumao", "mongoloid", "spic", "jogger", "george floyd", "fentanyl"...? I have seen every single one of these and variations of these. I doubt you were even a fraction as diligent because you don't even play the game.

Your own post also says that these top 1% racists were always reported for unrelated offenses. They were caught by your bot because they weren't even playing the game. They joined a Mafia lobby with the express purpose to destroy the game, not participate. Their racism - which undoubtedly was merely copy pasting a wall of text of the n word which is the only thing your bot is capable of catching - was a tool to destroy a game, as well as through other means such as cheating and gamethrowing. This isn't even getting to the fact that you glossed over a key detail that would punch a gaping hole in your house of cards of a conclusion and that is that these people were not reported for racism, but for unrelated offenses. That ultimately, the overwhelming majority of the playerbase was not ticked off by this troublesome 1% because they were racist, but because they destroyed the lobbies they were in.

If you actually played your own game now, you would see that every other lobby has explicit racism thrown around, but it is not in the form of spamming of wall of text. It is through elaborate puns, transient inside jokes, and mockery of other races. "Jogger" and variations of "jogger" were very popular during and around the Ahmaud Arbery trial, then tapered off. Your bot didn't catch that. "George floyd" and variations on it, including bizarre mockeries such as translating his name to Mandarin and pretending to be a member of the CCP speaking broken English, or pretending he was Croatian and mocking him through variations of Gjergj Floydci - popular during and after the George Floyd riots. Your bot didn't catch that. "Fentanyl fiend/addict/user/etc", "peaceful protestor" are also coded racist language for black people specific to a time period. Your bot didn't catch that. Nick Gurr, knee gga, your bot didn't catch these.

What about the recent anti-Ukrainian sentiment? What about anti-Russian sentiment? Hohol and vatnik are racial slurs respectively, among more general anti-slavic slurs such as snow monkey and mongoloid. Is the StarCraft 2 Mafia team going to take a side in the war and crack down on one of these slurs? Both? What about the controversy around transgender folks, the sports debate, schools? AGP and biomedicalism remains a popular theory for the origins of being transgender in some spaces including the ones that would play SC2, while it is rejected wholesale as transphobic in other spaces and referring to someone as AGP is a transphobic slur.

What is the StarCraft 2 Mafia's team on trans folks in women's sports? I have seen the names of trans athletes in StarCraft 2, your bot did not crack down on them. If you crack down on one type of racism, but not on other forms of discrimination, doesn't that imply that the StarCraft 2 Mafia team endorses transphobia and racism against the Roma? You show the willingness to moderate your game, remove these "toxic" elements from the community, and yet with this express purpose you do not crack down on ALL toxicity. Why hasn't the team made a stance on the Azov Battalion and Forgotten Weapons? Why hasn't the team made a stance on Texas passing landmark transphobic legislation that labels transitioning for minors as child abuse? Why hasn't the team made a stance on the Chinese and their role in COVID - is saying that the Chinese are behind COVID still racist, or now okay in light of recent endorsement by high profile American politicians? The silence from the SC2 Mafia team is DEAFENING on pitbulls, which are used by the far right as a dogwhistled proxy debate for racism in which pitbull is a stand in for black people - hence the overlap between white nationalists and anti-pitbullers and the reason why anti-pitbull memes originated on /pol/. Homophobia falls on deaf, straight ears in the Mafia team, where is the crack down on references to the Ass Bandit of Odessa, a humorous myth propagated to paint Ukrainians as a country of homosexual rapists? Where is the outcry from the team on references to "traps" - a transphobic slur? I have not seen you even mention the doubley ableist AND homophobic Mafia name of "Ray Getard". Does that mean the mod team views Ableism in StarCraft as acceptable now? The r slur is thrown left and right - yet no one in this thread has suggested punishment for it.

You have drawn wildly poor conclusions from a wildly poorly constructed methodology to compensate for the fact that you don't even play StarCraft 2 Mafia - had you played even 300 games in the last year instead of scanning 10,000, this would be a different story. From these out-of-touch conclusions, you then proceed to make the judgement that racism is toxic, and thus it needs to go. But you have so far only discussed actioning anti-black and anti-semitic racism, and not even seen the full scale of it. Yet because the mod team states that racism is toxic and because their principle is that toxicity must be removed, racism must be removed, they also implicitly endorse racism against other non-white races. And by extension, because they do not action transphobia, homophobia, queerphobia, sexism - ("get back in the kitchen", "repeal the 19th", two sexist names/references I have seen in SC2 Mafia off the top of my head, as well as a SLEW of incel terminology such as cope, seethe, foid, legacy women, x-cel, x-maxxing, x-pilled, etc) - and ableism which almost outcompetes anti-black racism for its prolificity, they have either endorsed it or signed off on it as "not toxic", and thus handwaiving the discrimination that marginalized communities routinely face as "nothing worth actioning over."

Are you truscum or tucutes? Do you support KKKiller Kyle or his victims of a racist attack? Is support for the fascist dictator Putin allowed in Mafia, knowing that he kills members of the Russian LGBT every day and waged a borderline genocidal war against the Chechens? Is support for Ukraine allowed in light that they have made a federal public holiday to celebrate an SS Officer and every other photo of Ukrainian troops contain a Swastika?

Do you think that even if you did manage to navigate this constantly changing political landscape of ebbs and eddies of controversy, and choose the "right side" every time, that this would positively impact the StarCraft 2 Mafia community?

Had you actually played your own game, you would have realized that 1) the overwhelming majority of Mafia players do not give a shit about any -ism, and they only care about a functioning lobby, 2) the overwhelming majority of Mafia players would not agree with you on most of your current or potential policies to exorcise the -isms from them, 3) the overwhelming majority of these -isms that come from SC2 Mafia players are done with little intention beyond an afterthought. They say "jogger" because it's the meme of the month. They say "Ray Getard" because it gives them a chuckle. They say "Digger Nick" not to evade a ban or censorship, but because it's so childish and dumb that it gives them a laugh - and then they forget about it and move on. The Klan doesn't play StarCraft 2.

What do you think the actual conclusion of this would be? Suddenly by banning people who say jogger, they magically will stop being racist? That they will not view the out-of-touch mods with animosity?

People come here to play a party game, not to submit to your specific political beliefs which is undoubtedly controversial even among circles of your own political ideology, and by the government and academic institutions. Not only will you fail due to your complete naivety, but you will destroy this tiny niche game-within-a-game and no one will remember why.

Originally Posted by Lag

Another interesting statistic I found from that data set was that the people that defended the use of "off-color speech" as "a part of the culture of the playerbase" and claimed that cracking down on it would result in losing players were invariably also serial participants in such "off-color speech"

Perhaps they see such "off-color speech" everywhere they go because they're the ones using it?

Did you actually read your own post? First, your methodologies are not posted. For all we know your list of slurs that your bot scanned for consisted of little more than the n-word and the k-word, when if you actually played the game the use of racial slurs stems far beyond the n word and also includes pun variations which would not be picked up for by the bot. Anti-Kurdish racism, Yugoslavian racism, anti-Chinese racism, anti-Indian racism, anti-Turkish racism etc, I have seen all of these in significant quantities, especially because they are now trendy. Saddam Hussein has gained a lot popularity in the last couple of years. Yugoslavian racism has always been present. Indian racism has always been present especially when PewdiePie popularized "bobs and vagene". Anti-Chinese racism has increased since the pandemic. Anti-Turkish racism became prevalent after the incursion of Turkey into the Syrian Civil War.

Does your bot scan for references to "Kung Flu"? Does your bot scan for slurs in other languages? Does your bot scan for anglicizations? Does your bot scan for "Hohols", "gypsy", "riggers", "small hat", "long nose", "cockroach", "moon cricket", "snow monkey", "red skin", "shekels", "jungle asian", "pajeet", "kebab", "ass bandit", "hon", "AGP", "beaner", "ching chong", "wetback", "kang", "curry", "YWNBAW", "train", "locomotive", "troon", "oreo", "BBC", "sand people", "dunecoon", "towel head", "suicide bomber", "goy", "wumao", "mongoloid", "spic", "jogger", "george floyd", "fentanyl"...? I have seen every single one of these and variations of these. I doubt you were even a fraction as diligent because you don't even play the game.

Your own post also says that these top 1% racists were always reported for unrelated offenses. They were caught by your bot because they weren't even playing the game. They joined a Mafia lobby with the express purpose to destroy the game, not participate. Their racism - which undoubtedly was merely copy pasting a wall of text of the n word which is the only thing your bot is capable of catching - was a tool to destroy a game, as well as through other means such as cheating and gamethrowing. This isn't even getting to the fact that you glossed over a key detail that would punch a gaping hole in your house of cards of a conclusion and that is that these people were not reported for racism, but for unrelated offenses. That ultimately, the overwhelming majority of the playerbase was not ticked off by this troublesome 1% because they were racist, but because they destroyed the lobbies they were in.

If you actually played your own game now, you would see that every other lobby has explicit racism thrown around, but it is not in the form of spamming of wall of text. It is through elaborate puns, transient inside jokes, and mockery of other races. "Jogger" and variations of "jogger" were very popular during and around the Ahmaud Arbery trial, then tapered off. Your bot didn't catch that. "George floyd" and variations on it, including bizarre mockeries such as translating his name to Mandarin and pretending to be a member of the CCP speaking broken English, or pretending he was Croatian and mocking him through variations of Gjergj Floydci - popular during and after the George Floyd riots. Your bot didn't catch that. "Fentanyl fiend/addict/user/etc", "peaceful protestor" are also coded racist language for black people specific to a time period. Your bot didn't catch that. Nick Gurr, knee gga, your bot didn't catch these.

What about the recent anti-Ukrainian sentiment? What about anti-Russian sentiment? Hohol and vatnik are racial slurs respectively, among more general anti-slavic slurs such as snow monkey and mongoloid. Is the StarCraft 2 Mafia team going to take a side in the war and crack down on one of these slurs? Both? What about the controversy around transgender folks, the sports debate, schools? AGP and biomedicalism remains a popular theory for the origins of being transgender in some spaces including the ones that would play SC2, while it is rejected wholesale as transphobic in other spaces and referring to someone as AGP is a transphobic slur.

What is the StarCraft 2 Mafia's team on trans folks in women's sports? I have seen the names of trans athletes in StarCraft 2, your bot did not crack down on them. If you crack down on one type of racism, but not on other forms of discrimination, doesn't that imply that the StarCraft 2 Mafia team endorses transphobia and racism against the Roma? You show the willingness to moderate your game, remove these "toxic" elements from the community, and yet with this express purpose you do not crack down on ALL toxicity. Why hasn't the team made a stance on the Azov Battalion and Forgotten Weapons? Why hasn't the team made a stance on Texas passing landmark transphobic legislation that labels transitioning for minors as child abuse? Why hasn't the team made a stance on the Chinese and their role in COVID - is saying that the Chinese are behind COVID still racist, or now okay in light of recent endorsement by high profile American politicians? The silence from the SC2 Mafia team is DEAFENING on pitbulls, which are used by the far right as a dogwhistled proxy debate for racism in which pitbull is a stand in for black people - hence the overlap between white nationalists and anti-pitbullers and the reason why anti-pitbull memes originated on /pol/. Homophobia falls on deaf, straight ears in the Mafia team, where is the crack down on references to the Ass Bandit of Odessa, a humorous myth propagated to paint Ukrainians as a country of homosexual rapists? Where is the outcry from the team on references to "traps" - a transphobic slur? I have not seen you even mention the doubley ableist AND homophobic Mafia name of "Ray Getard". Does that mean the mod team views Ableism in StarCraft as acceptable now? The r slur is thrown left and right - yet no one in this thread has suggested punishment for it.

You have drawn wildly poor conclusions from a wildly poorly constructed methodology to compensate for the fact that you don't even play StarCraft 2 Mafia - had you played even 300 games in the last year instead of scanning 10,000, this would be a different story. From these out-of-touch conclusions, you then proceed to make the judgement that racism is toxic, and thus it needs to go. But you have so far only discussed actioning anti-black and anti-semitic racism, and not even seen the full scale of it. Yet because the mod team states that racism is toxic and because their principle is that toxicity must be removed, racism must be removed, they also implicitly endorse racism against other non-white races. And by extension, because they do not action transphobia, homophobia, queerphobia, sexism - ("get back in the kitchen", "repeal the 19th", two sexist names/references I have seen in SC2 Mafia off the top of my head, as well as a SLEW of incel terminology such as cope, seethe, foid, legacy women, x-cel, x-maxxing, x-pilled, etc) - and ableism which almost outcompetes anti-black racism for its prolificity, they have either endorsed it or signed off on it as "not toxic", and thus handwaiving the discrimination that marginalized communities routinely face as "nothing worth actioning over."

Are you truscum or tucutes? Do you support KKKiller Kyle or his victims of a racist attack? Is support for the fascist dictator Putin allowed in Mafia, knowing that he kills members of the Russian LGBT every day and waged a borderline genocidal war against the Chechens? Is support for Ukraine allowed in light that they have made a federal public holiday to celebrate an SS Officer and every other photo of Ukrainian troops contain a Swastika?

Do you think that even if you did manage to navigate this constantly changing political landscape of ebbs and eddies of controversy, and choose the "right side" every time, that this would positively impact the StarCraft 2 Mafia community?

Had you actually played your own game, you would have realized that 1) the overwhelming majority of Mafia players do not give a shit about any -ism, and they only care about a functioning lobby, 2) the overwhelming majority of Mafia players would not agree with you on most of your current or potential policies to exorcise the -isms from them, 3) the overwhelming majority of these -isms that come from SC2 Mafia players are done with little intention beyond an afterthought. They say "jogger" because it's the meme of the month. They say "Ray Getard" because it gives them a chuckle. They say "Digger Nick" not to evade a ban or censorship, but because it's so childish and dumb that it gives them a laugh - and then they forget about it and move on. The Klan doesn't play StarCraft 2.

What do you think the actual conclusion of this would be? Suddenly by banning people who say jogger, they magically will stop being racist? That they will not view the out-of-touch mods with animosity?

People come here to play a party game, not to submit to your specific political beliefs which is undoubtedly controversial even among circles of your own political ideology, and by the government and academic institutions. Not only will you fail due to your complete naivety, but you will destroy this tiny niche game-within-a-game and no one will remember why.

[QUOTE=Voss;963855]Oh no! The poor victimed racists, (sorry refugees), don't have other games to play.

I call upon the admin staff to allow not only black and Jewish jokes, but also pedophilia role play in the game. Glory to SC2![/QUOTE]

I'm not making a normative statement of who is justified or not. This is simply fact of the matter. StarCraft's current userbase is predominately edgy and tolerant of off-color speech. StarCraft is also seeing no player growth, especially in the arcade. If you all of a sudden start cracking down on this you will end up alienating the majority of players and kill SC2 Mafia, which is already slow to get lobbies as is.

Originally Posted by Voss

Oh no! The poor victimed racists, (sorry refugees), don't have other games to play.

I call upon the admin staff to allow not only black and Jewish jokes, but also pedophilia role play in the game. Glory to SC2!

I'm not making a normative statement of who is justified or not. This is simply fact of the matter. StarCraft's current userbase is predominately edgy and tolerant of off-color speech. StarCraft is also seeing no player growth, especially in the arcade. If you all of a sudden start cracking down on this you will end up alienating the majority of players and kill SC2 Mafia, which is already slow to get lobbies as is.

[QUOTE=Exeter350;958399]Interesting idea. COULD work as its own faction, or as a Cult re-work.[/QUOTE]

No matter how much I think about it, I think a Cult rework is fundamentally impossible if we insist on Neutral alignment. Cult functions as a faction, and attempting to have three factions in one game would be very difficult to balance. I think whatever direction Cult rework / replacement goes, it must begin with the presumption that it will be a new faction, one that would replace Mafia and Triad, and give birth to a creatively new type of game setup.

Originally Posted by Exeter350

Interesting idea. COULD work as its own faction, or as a Cult re-work.

No matter how much I think about it, I think a Cult rework is fundamentally impossible if we insist on Neutral alignment. Cult functions as a faction, and attempting to have three factions in one game would be very difficult to balance. I think whatever direction Cult rework / replacement goes, it must begin with the presumption that it will be a new faction, one that would replace Mafia and Triad, and give birth to a creatively new type of game setup.

[QUOTE=Exeter350;958421]Debtor has no info to go on besides randomly pressing buttons at night.[/QUOTE]

Investigator has no info to go on besides randomly pressing buttons at night.

Witch has no info to go on besides randomly pressing buttons at night.

etc

[QUOTE=Exeter350;958421]Creditor has no "tell" for Debtor to catch on to, and no counterplay possible.[/QUOTE]

There are indeed tells.

Creditor:

The following night, the ~~Time Traveler~~ Creditor receives a notification of who their target visited the night before in a message of this kind:

"After reviewing your sources from the future, you were able to determine that the ~~fugitive~~ Debtor must have visited <insert player> last night."

Debtor:

"
If the ~~Time Traveler~~ Creditor follows the ~~target~~ Debtor (knowingly or unknowingly), the ~~target~~ Debtor receives a notification that they were being followed in a message of this kind:

"You noticed a strange individual stalking you. ~~CERN~~ The bank might be on your trail!""

[QUOTE=Exeter350;958421]Once Debtor finds his target, he just has to press another button at night to eliminate his target and win.[/QUOTE]

This applies to all killing roles, to Cult, and especially to Witch and Enchantress. The fun comes not in the actual gameplay, but from the player interaction that emerges from gameplay mechanics. Mafia is fundamentally a social game - its merit derived from its players.

Originally Posted by Exeter350

Debtor has no info to go on besides randomly pressing buttons at night.

Investigator has no info to go on besides randomly pressing buttons at night.

Witch has no info to go on besides randomly pressing buttons at night.

etc

Originally Posted by Exeter350

Creditor has no "tell" for Debtor to catch on to, and no counterplay possible.

There are indeed tells.

Creditor:

The following night, the ~~Time Traveler~~ Creditor receives a notification of who their target visited the night before in a message of this kind:

"After reviewing your sources from the future, you were able to determine that the ~~fugitive~~ Debtor must have visited last night."

Debtor:

"
If the ~~Time Traveler~~ Creditor follows the ~~target~~ Debtor (knowingly or unknowingly), the ~~target~~ Debtor receives a notification that they were being followed in a message of this kind:

"You noticed a strange individual stalking you. ~~CERN~~ The bank might be on your trail!""

Originally Posted by Exeter350

Once Debtor finds his target, he just has to press another button at night to eliminate his target and win.

This applies to all killing roles, to Cult, and especially to Witch and Enchantress. The fun comes not in the actual gameplay, but from the player interaction that emerges from gameplay mechanics. Mafia is fundamentally a social game - its merit derived from its players.

[QUOTE=Helz;931928]
Having racist humor drives away new players and longevity of the game while eliminating regulars for the same actions hurts games.
[/QUOTE]

There are virtually no new players, and those who do play are overwhelmingly open to black and disturbing humor, just look at Arcade General chat or the chat of any random lobby. SC2 is one of few unmoderated games left on the market, and it has cultivated a user base that reflects that - along with collecting "refugees" from other games that have become moderated. Stringent moderator action would actually drive away new players. If we were talking about Battlefield or Halo this would make sense.

Originally Posted by Helz

Having racist humor drives away new players and longevity of the game while eliminating regulars for the same actions hurts games.

There are virtually no new players, and those who do play are overwhelmingly open to black and disturbing humor, just look at Arcade General chat or the chat of any random lobby. SC2 is one of few unmoderated games left on the market, and it has cultivated a user base that reflects that - along with collecting "refugees" from other games that have become moderated. Stringent moderator action would actually drive away new players. If we were talking about Battlefield or Halo this would make sense.

Bumping this, Framer/Forger needs a rework. I like the ideas posted here, especially one where the target appears to visit mafs kill target.

Bumping this, Framer/Forger needs a rework. I like the ideas posted here, especially one where the target appears to visit mafs kill target.

[QUOTE=Grakylan;957835]I would even suggest once you get 20k or 30k points you can input your own custom song for Party Host via pasting YouTube link, but that will prob lead to copyright infringement strikes so prob not a good idea.[/QUOTE]

Who is going to go to a dead game, go into one of hundreds of user-made games, and issue a copyright strike for something that may only occur once in every dozen games?

Originally Posted by Grakylan

I would even suggest once you get 20k or 30k points you can input your own custom song for Party Host via pasting YouTube link, but that will prob lead to copyright infringement strikes so prob not a good idea.

Who is going to go to a dead game, go into one of hundreds of user-made games, and issue a copyright strike for something that may only occur once in every dozen games?

Specifically this happens to Mafiaso, Consiglere, Framer, Janitor, Blackmailer, Heartbreaker, and Caproregime.

I try setting Mafiaso, Framer, and Blackmailer to 0.0 and everything else at 2.0. But when I save and restart, Mafiaso goes back to 2.0, Framer goes back to 2.0, Janitor goes to 0.0, BM goes to 2.0, and Heartbreaker and Caporegime go to 0.0.

No matter what I do, the weights ALWAYS change.


EDIT: Tried this with Triad. Triad weights are fine and don't change. This issue is exclusively with Mafia.

Specifically this happens to Mafiaso, Consiglere, Framer, Janitor, Blackmailer, Heartbreaker, and Caproregime.

I try setting Mafiaso, Framer, and Blackmailer to 0.0 and everything else at 2.0. But when I save and restart, Mafiaso goes back to 2.0, Framer goes back to 2.0, Janitor goes to 0.0, BM goes to 2.0, and Heartbreaker and Caporegime go to 0.0.

No matter what I do, the weights ALWAYS change.


EDIT: Tried this with Triad. Triad weights are fine and don't change. This issue is exclusively with Mafia.

[QUOTE=oops_ur_dead;893133]I've told you exactly what my point is like 5 times and you still aren't arguing my point itself and just sobbing about an alarmist point you want to make, one which I never even brought up or disputed because I don't care about it. I'm not going to keep arguing with you, I suggest you learn how to read, and learn some basic debate and logic skills.

I'm still waiting for my colossal amounts of money. You wouldn't go back on your word, would you?[/QUOTE]


This is a narcissistic response, all of your posts in this thread are exercises not in dominating and humiliating Oberon - who has not wronged you in any capacity.

Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead

I've told you exactly what my point is like 5 times and you still aren't arguing my point itself and just sobbing about an alarmist point you want to make, one which I never even brought up or disputed because I don't care about it. I'm not going to keep arguing with you, I suggest you learn how to read, and learn some basic debate and logic skills.

I'm still waiting for my colossal amounts of money. You wouldn't go back on your word, would you?

This is a narcissistic response, all of your posts in this thread are exercises not in dominating and humiliating Oberon - who has not wronged you in any capacity.

[QUOTE=oops_ur_dead;891908]What? It's a field of academia. Things don't stop being academic because you don't like them.

I don't even give a fuck about cultural studies but it's overly pretentious and frankly really cringey and pseudo-intellectual to disregard entire fields because you disagree with the people practising them.



Can you provide evidence of that?

I don't know why you're arguing this. I've literally shown you direct evidence of the exact same thing happening in natural sciences and you're plugging your ears and saying "wahh wahh i don't believe you wahh wahh". This is a quantifiable and objective problem that exists in all of academia regardless of how much the existence of cultural studies hurts your feelings. Stop being ignorant and acknowledge the evidence I posted and maybe then you can finally start formulating a cohesive point.[/QUOTE]



R*dditor detected

Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead

What? It's a field of academia. Things don't stop being academic because you don't like them.

I don't even give a fuck about cultural studies but it's overly pretentious and frankly really cringey and pseudo-intellectual to disregard entire fields because you disagree with the people practising them.



Can you provide evidence of that?

I don't know why you're arguing this. I've literally shown you direct evidence of the exact same thing happening in natural sciences and you're plugging your ears and saying "wahh wahh i don't believe you wahh wahh". This is a quantifiable and objective problem that exists in all of academia regardless of how much the existence of cultural studies hurts your feelings. Stop being ignorant and acknowledge the evidence I posted and maybe then you can finally start formulating a cohesive point.

R*dditor detected

[QUOTE=Drizzt;962404]We have a seperate lobby. Look for the clan tag SC2Mafia. We are running games, just not with him.[/QUOTE]

Okay but what I'm asking is why this happened. I want the juicy details. Who is David Duke and why were people negotiating with him?

Originally Posted by Drizzt

We have a seperate lobby. Look for the clan tag SC2Mafia. We are running games, just not with him.

Okay but what I'm asking is why this happened. I want the juicy details. Who is David Duke and why were people negotiating with him?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28412[/ATTACH]

No one can play Mafia because there are over 15 separate lobbies, with the main one advertised as a "Negotiation" lobby headed by David Duke, that kicks out any one that is joining. Can someone give the QRD?

No one can play Mafia because there are over 15 separate lobbies, with the main one advertised as a "Negotiation" lobby headed by David Duke, that kicks out any one that is joining. Can someone give the QRD?

[QUOTE=Exeter350;958402]
Alternatively Creditor hunting a Debtor. He needs the Debtor to pay his debts or the Creditor will go bankrupt. Upon the Debtor's death, the Creditor hangs himself.

The target would receive a message like "Your past is catching up to you" or something.[/QUOTE]

Creditor / Debtor is a brilliant idea for flavor. Ill think of some flavor real quick.

Originally Posted by Exeter350

Alternatively Creditor hunting a Debtor. He needs the Debtor to pay his debts or the Creditor will go bankrupt. Upon the Debtor's death, the Creditor hangs himself.

The target would receive a message like "Your past is catching up to you" or something.

Creditor / Debtor is a brilliant idea for flavor. Ill think of some flavor real quick.

[QUOTE=Frinckles;958395]A douse-convert mechanic is interesting.

But I'm not sure why such a mechanic couldn't be reserved for its own role/faction. Hm.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean exactly? I'm not able to parse this.

IMO the more interesting mechanic is a conversion that still maintains original roles. I have seen this idea floated in various forms in past posts, like in the Zombie role suggestion thread. This could allow cult to be balanced through means outside of numbers, as relying on numbers for balancing is what causes cult to either be extremely weak or ridiculously overpowered, with little way in between.

Originally Posted by Frinckles

A douse-convert mechanic is interesting.

But I'm not sure why such a mechanic couldn't be reserved for its own role/faction. Hm.

What do you mean exactly? I'm not able to parse this.

IMO the more interesting mechanic is a conversion that still maintains original roles. I have seen this idea floated in various forms in past posts, like in the Zombie role suggestion thread. This could allow cult to be balanced through means outside of numbers, as relying on numbers for balancing is what causes cult to either be extremely weak or ridiculously overpowered, with little way in between.

[QUOTE=Grakylan;958392]I agree with the [I]spirit[/I] of the idea, but Witch shouldn't be told exact feedback, to account for concerns of Witch just grabbing really strong claims and becoming "brianless" as Rufus puts it. When I suggested the same idea a while back I merely suggested "tell the Witch if their target [B]actually[/B] visit anyone", b/c it just says "You controlled # to visit #" which can be said even if you control a non-visiting role.

But one thing people tend to forget about Witch is that Witch can actually [B]make non-visiting roles visit people.[/B] This is a feature no one is able to exploit b/c its so unknown and so situational. [/QUOTE]

This is the first I have even heard of this. This absolutely needs to be made visible in the role card.

I can agree with your analysis. I think some form of feedback for the witch is needed, but it doesn't need to be a hard-detect sort of deal.

Originally Posted by Grakylan

I agree with the spirit of the idea, but Witch shouldn't be told exact feedback, to account for concerns of Witch just grabbing really strong claims and becoming "brianless" as Rufus puts it. When I suggested the same idea a while back I merely suggested "tell the Witch if their target actually visit anyone", b/c it just says "You controlled # to visit #" which can be said even if you control a non-visiting role.

But one thing people tend to forget about Witch is that Witch can actually make non-visiting roles visit people. This is a feature no one is able to exploit b/c its so unknown and so situational.

This is the first I have even heard of this. This absolutely needs to be made visible in the role card.

I can agree with your analysis. I think some form of feedback for the witch is needed, but it doesn't need to be a hard-detect sort of deal.

[QUOTE=theoneceko;958394]what if... cult doesnt need to be reworked[/QUOTE]

Bruh

Originally Posted by theoneceko

what if... cult doesnt need to be reworked

Bruh

That would still work. It shouldn't be too easy, and a big part of the role is relying on player intelligence and perceptiveness on others revealing their LWs and LWs of the dead. Essentially the role I am trying to make is some sort of hunting role. And personally I like the idea that the target knows he is being hunted too because it alters their gameplay somewhat. The reason I chose Time Traveler and not Bounty Hunter or some other flavor is that this specific flavor gives reason for why the role would only get one shot, or one chance, at killing the target, else they die. The reason I think a mechanic like this is crucial is that if it didn't exist, the Time Traveler role could easily be abused to be a neutral killing version of the vigilante. It can be used to troll and throw games, and there is no disincentive to just fuck over people you don't like beyond not winning. By giving disincentives, it focuses the role on a detective-like deduction style of gameplay, which is in line with Mafia, and it prevents the possibility of it being used as a neutral killing vigilante, stemming abuse and gamethrowing. Hence the mechanic where if the Time Traveler picks the wrong target, MIB/CERN from the future time travel to right before he will kill the target and kill him for making a mistake in the future. A self correcting time line is an interesting way to ensure that it doesn't become an easily trollable killing role.

As for replacement flavors, I haven't really thought of that. I at least want to put the idea out there of a non-killing hunting role. I guess something along the lines of a Rogue Detective, or Private Investigator would work, but I don't know how the flavor would justify the suicide / role change mechanic for attempting to kill the wrong target.

That would still work. It shouldn't be too easy, and a big part of the role is relying on player intelligence and perceptiveness on others revealing their LWs and LWs of the dead. Essentially the role I am trying to make is some sort of hunting role. And personally I like the idea that the target knows he is being hunted too because it alters their gameplay somewhat. The reason I chose Time Traveler and not Bounty Hunter or some other flavor is that this specific flavor gives reason for why the role would only get one shot, or one chance, at killing the target, else they die. The reason I think a mechanic like this is crucial is that if it didn't exist, the Time Traveler role could easily be abused to be a neutral killing version of the vigilante. It can be used to troll and throw games, and there is no disincentive to just fuck over people you don't like beyond not winning. By giving disincentives, it focuses the role on a detective-like deduction style of gameplay, which is in line with Mafia, and it prevents the possibility of it being used as a neutral killing vigilante, stemming abuse and gamethrowing. Hence the mechanic where if the Time Traveler picks the wrong target, MIB/CERN from the future time travel to right before he will kill the target and kill him for making a mistake in the future. A self correcting time line is an interesting way to ensure that it doesn't become an easily trollable killing role.

As for replacement flavors, I haven't really thought of that. I at least want to put the idea out there of a non-killing hunting role. I guess something along the lines of a Rogue Detective, or Private Investigator would work, but I don't know how the flavor would justify the suicide / role change mechanic for attempting to kill the wrong target.

[QUOTE=theoneceko;958382]
1. how is the time traveler able to figure out their target[/QUOTE]

The time traveler has two tools:

1: they can follow someone to see who they visited that night

2: they can see who their real target visited LAST night.

By putting these two together, they should be able to figure it by following a player who visits the same people as his real target.

For example

N1: TT follows player 1. Player 1 visited player 15

N2: TT learns that real target visited player 3 N1. TT follows player 5. Player 5 visited player 6.

N3: TT learns that real target visited player 6 N2. TT follows player 5. Player 5 visited player 7.

N4: TT learns that real target visited player 7 N3. TT deduces that the real target is most likely player 5. TT kidnaps player 5.

[B]If proves too difficult for gameplay[/B], additional considerations would be:

TT learns the role of their target at game start. This also gives more reason for the target to keep their role hidden from the public or lie about their role, especially if they are Town Investigator or Sheriff. They would be forced to communicate via DMs (IMO I don't like this)

TT has a lookout night ability in addition to his detective night ability. However, they cannot be used at the same time. TT also sees who visited their real target the night before in addition to who their real target visited.

So the example would look more like this.


N1: TT follows player 1. Player 1 visited player 15

N2: TT learns that real target visited player 3 and was visited by no one N1. TT follows player 5. Player 5 visited player 6.

N3: TT learns that real target visited player 6 and was visited by player 14 N2. TT watches player 5's house. Player 5 visited no one and was visited by no one.

D4: TT sees 14 claim lookout and post their LW about how they watched player 2's house N2.

N4: TT learns that real target visited player 13 and was visited by no one N3. TT follows player 2's house. Player 2 visited player 1.

N5: TT learns that target visited player 1 and was visited by player 12 N4. TT deduces that with the LO's LW, the real target is most likely player 2. TT kidnaps player 2.


Essentially TT is trying to match detective/lookout feedback of their UNKNOWN real target with the detective/lookout feedback of TT's night ability.

Originally Posted by theoneceko

1. how is the time traveler able to figure out their target

The time traveler has two tools:

1: they can follow someone to see who they visited that night

2: they can see who their real target visited LAST night.

By putting these two together, they should be able to figure it by following a player who visits the same people as his real target.

For example

N1: TT follows player 1. Player 1 visited player 15

N2: TT learns that real target visited player 3 N1. TT follows player 5. Player 5 visited player 6.

N3: TT learns that real target visited player 6 N2. TT follows player 5. Player 5 visited player 7.

N4: TT learns that real target visited player 7 N3. TT deduces that the real target is most likely player 5. TT kidnaps player 5.

If proves too difficult for gameplay, additional considerations would be:

TT learns the role of their target at game start. This also gives more reason for the target to keep their role hidden from the public or lie about their role, especially if they are Town Investigator or Sheriff. They would be forced to communicate via DMs (IMO I don't like this)

TT has a lookout night ability in addition to his detective night ability. However, they cannot be used at the same time. TT also sees who visited their real target the night before in addition to who their real target visited.

So the example would look more like this.


N1: TT follows player 1. Player 1 visited player 15

N2: TT learns that real target visited player 3 and was visited by no one N1. TT follows player 5. Player 5 visited player 6.

N3: TT learns that real target visited player 6 and was visited by player 14 N2. TT watches player 5's house. Player 5 visited no one and was visited by no one.

D4: TT sees 14 claim lookout and post their LW about how they watched player 2's house N2.

N4: TT learns that real target visited player 13 and was visited by no one N3. TT follows player 2's house. Player 2 visited player 1.

N5: TT learns that target visited player 1 and was visited by player 12 N4. TT deduces that with the LO's LW, the real target is most likely player 2. TT kidnaps player 2.


Essentially TT is trying to match detective/lookout feedback of their UNKNOWN real target with the detective/lookout feedback of TT's night ability.

[B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler[/COLOR][/B] ([I]Neutral Benign)[/I] "Sent from the future to change the past, the Time Traveler must search for a temporal fugitive and send them back to the future before the timeline is rewritten. If he fails, his employers at CERN won't be so forgiving..."

A random player is designated as the [B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler's[/COLOR][/B] target. However, the Time Traveler does NOT know who their target is.

At the start of the game, the target receives a notification of this kind:

[I]"You are being hunted. Your future has caught up with your past, and an agent of CERN is attempting to track you down. Stay low and stay hidden."[/I]

Every night the [B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler[/COLOR][/B] may follow a player and see who they visited (exact copy of the Detective night ability). The following night, the [B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler[/COLOR][/B] receives a notification of who their target visited [I]the night before[/I] in a message of this kind:

[I]"After reviewing your sources from the future, you were able to determine that the fugitive must have visited <insert player> last night."[/I]

If the [B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler[/COLOR][/B] follows the target (knowingly or unknowingly), the target receives a notification that they were being followed in a message of this kind:

[I]"You noticed a strange individual stalking you. CERN might be on your trail!"[/I]

Once the [B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler[/COLOR][/B] believes they have figured out who their target is, they may use a single-use night ability on that target. This ability descriptively incapacitates, kidnaps, and sends the target to the future - and functionally kills the target. This function is unblockable and bypasses night immunity. On the following day, the target's death description appears as such:

[I]"<insert player here> has disappeared. There appears to have been some sort of struggle in their house, but no trace of them remains..."[/I]

Their role is also not revealed.

The description for the target (if correct) appears as such:

[I]"CERN has found you! You try to fight back, but the time traveler neutralizes you with a strange looking stun gun. You are tied up and dragged into their time machine..."[/I]

The [B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler[/COLOR][/B] wins.

[B]HOWEVER[/B], if the [B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler[/COLOR][/B] chose the wrong person, the incorrect target does not disappear / die. Instead, the [B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler[/COLOR][/B] receives this notification.

[I]"As you approach the fugitive's house for capture, a group of men in black grab you and drag you down an alley! Apparently your deduction was incorrect, and CERN has sent an extraction team to undo the mistake you were about to make. As they prepare to dispose of you, the men in black inform you that your contract with CERN has been terminated..."[/I]

The following day, your death description reads as:

[I]"<insert player here> has disappeared without a trace. Despite a rigorous search for clues, no remains or signs of struggle were found. It's as if they never even existed..."[/I].

Their role is not revealed. However, due to the unique death description, it can easily be inferred that this player was the [B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler[/COLOR][/B] and thus Neutral Benign is eliminated from the role list.

If the [B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler's[/COLOR][/B] target is killed or lynched before they can be found, at the end of the following night, the Time Traveler dies and receives this notification:

[I]"Before you could do anything tonight, a group of men in black grab you and drag you down an alley! Apparently you were too late and the target has already been killed. As punishment for violating the terms of your contract, CERN has sent an extraction team to dispose of you..."[/I]



[B]Options:[/B]

1: [B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler[/COLOR][/B] is invulnerable at night

2: [B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler's[/COLOR][/B] target can be Town / Mafia / Neutral

3a: Instead of dying, [B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler[/COLOR][/B] turns into Jester upon failure (a new final description must be written)

3b: Instead of dying, [B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler[/COLOR][/B] turns into Amnesiac upon failure (idea I had, failure description involves the men in black sent by CERN using a device that wipes your memories).

4: [B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler[/COLOR][/B] cannot be roleblocked.

5: [B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler[/COLOR][/B] ignores detection immunity.


[B][SIZE=3]Why Time Traveler?[/SIZE][/B]

This is obviously the Executioner but with a flavorful and mechanically interesting twist. While the Executioner knows their target from the beginning and just needs to lynch them, the [B][COLOR="#37bda8"]Time Traveler[/COLOR][/B] must play a game of deduction and intrigue, which is far more engaging and in the spirit of Mafia. In addition, it adds another level of gameplay for the randomized target. I see this as an interesting, simple, yet flavorful addition to the neutral benigns that doesn't infringe too heavily on the main conflict between Town and Mafia/Triad/Neutral Killing.

[B]Potential problems:[/B]

I don't know what should happen to the Time Traveler once he wins. Should he stay as Time Traveler, or convert to Detective for the Town. Should he keep his detective night ability and decide who to aid?

Time Traveler (Neutral Benign) "Sent from the future to change the past, the Time Traveler must search for a temporal fugitive and send them back to the future before the timeline is rewritten. If he fails, his employers at CERN won't be so forgiving..."

A random player is designated as the Time Traveler's target. However, the Time Traveler does NOT know who their target is.

At the start of the game, the target receives a notification of this kind:

"You are being hunted. Your future has caught up with your past, and an agent of CERN is attempting to track you down. Stay low and stay hidden."

Every night the Time Traveler may follow a player and see who they visited (exact copy of the Detective night ability). The following night, the Time Traveler receives a notification of who their target visited the night before in a message of this kind:

"After reviewing your sources from the future, you were able to determine that the fugitive must have visited last night."

If the Time Traveler follows the target (knowingly or unknowingly), the target receives a notification that they were being followed in a message of this kind:

"You noticed a strange individual stalking you. CERN might be on your trail!"

Once the Time Traveler believes they have figured out who their target is, they may use a single-use night ability on that target. This ability descriptively incapacitates, kidnaps, and sends the target to the future - and functionally kills the target. This function is unblockable and bypasses night immunity. On the following day, the target's death description appears as such:

" has disappeared. There appears to have been some sort of struggle in their house, but no trace of them remains..."

Their role is also not revealed.

The description for the target (if correct) appears as such:

"CERN has found you! You try to fight back, but the time traveler neutralizes you with a strange looking stun gun. You are tied up and dragged into their time machine..."

The Time Traveler wins.

HOWEVER, if the Time Traveler chose the wrong person, the incorrect target does not disappear / die. Instead, the Time Traveler receives this notification.

"As you approach the fugitive's house for capture, a group of men in black grab you and drag you down an alley! Apparently your deduction was incorrect, and CERN has sent an extraction team to undo the mistake you were about to make. As they prepare to dispose of you, the men in black inform you that your contract with CERN has been terminated..."

The following day, your death description reads as:

" has disappeared without a trace. Despite a rigorous search for clues, no remains or signs of struggle were found. It's as if they never even existed...".

Their role is not revealed. However, due to the unique death description, it can easily be inferred that this player was the Time Traveler and thus Neutral Benign is eliminated from the role list.

If the Time Traveler's target is killed or lynched before they can be found, at the end of the following night, the Time Traveler dies and receives this notification:

"Before you could do anything tonight, a group of men in black grab you and drag you down an alley! Apparently you were too late and the target has already been killed. As punishment for violating the terms of your contract, CERN has sent an extraction team to dispose of you..."



Options:

1: Time Traveler is invulnerable at night

2: Time Traveler's target can be Town / Mafia / Neutral

3a: Instead of dying, Time Traveler turns into Jester upon failure (a new final description must be written)

3b: Instead of dying, Time Traveler turns into Amnesiac upon failure (idea I had, failure description involves the men in black sent by CERN using a device that wipes your memories).

4: Time Traveler cannot be roleblocked.

5: Time Traveler ignores detection immunity.


Why Time Traveler?

This is obviously the Executioner but with a flavorful and mechanically interesting twist. While the Executioner knows their target from the beginning and just needs to lynch them, the Time Traveler must play a game of deduction and intrigue, which is far more engaging and in the spirit of Mafia. In addition, it adds another level of gameplay for the randomized target. I see this as an interesting, simple, yet flavorful addition to the neutral benigns that doesn't infringe too heavily on the main conflict between Town and Mafia/Triad/Neutral Killing.

Potential problems:

I don't know what should happen to the Time Traveler once he wins. Should he stay as Time Traveler, or convert to Detective for the Town. Should he keep his detective night ability and decide who to aid?

Witch as of now is incredibly ineffectual. A part of that is that the witch has no way of knowing if the person they are controlling is actually doing anything unless they get lucky and witch a killing role.

I propose that the witch receives the feedback of whoever they target for the night. For example, if their target is a sheriff and the sheriff sees feedback that their own supposed target is Mafia, the witch ALSO sees that. If their target is roleblocked, the witch sees that as well.

The in-game explanation is that the witch controls other people by "seeing through their eyes".

This would 1: give witch utility in the form of information gathering, either to help the other neutrals, or to hide from town (e.g. claim they are escort when their target was roleblocked), and 2: allow the witch to more properly strategize and improve their targets as the game goes on. This is essentially a soft-detect feature. Witch can infer from feedback (or lack thereof) what class of role their target might be. Witch can also see if they are actually doing anything.

This also gives the "target knows he is being witched" option more balancing credibility, as a target would know that whatever feedback he got for the night, the witch would know. And thus he should keep a look out for particular claims OR pms going on in day. It also adds another level of intrigue. For example, if a target was roleblocked, and two people claim to be the escorts who roleblocked them, Town must figure out who is telling the truth and who is lying.

Witch as of now is incredibly ineffectual. A part of that is that the witch has no way of knowing if the person they are controlling is actually doing anything unless they get lucky and witch a killing role.

I propose that the witch receives the feedback of whoever they target for the night. For example, if their target is a sheriff and the sheriff sees feedback that their own supposed target is Mafia, the witch ALSO sees that. If their target is roleblocked, the witch sees that as well.

The in-game explanation is that the witch controls other people by "seeing through their eyes".

This would 1: give witch utility in the form of information gathering, either to help the other neutrals, or to hide from town (e.g. claim they are escort when their target was roleblocked), and 2: allow the witch to more properly strategize and improve their targets as the game goes on. This is essentially a soft-detect feature. Witch can infer from feedback (or lack thereof) what class of role their target might be. Witch can also see if they are actually doing anything.

This also gives the "target knows he is being witched" option more balancing credibility, as a target would know that whatever feedback he got for the night, the witch would know. And thus he should keep a look out for particular claims OR pms going on in day. It also adds another level of intrigue. For example, if a target was roleblocked, and two people claim to be the escorts who roleblocked them, Town must figure out who is telling the truth and who is lying.

Yeah, I can agree with that analysis. I suppose it can be marked as Neutral Killing instead of Neutral Evil, as after all the Demagogue gives the ability to kill other players to its members.

I tried to temper conversions by 1: limiting it. Cult can endlessly convert town, replenish their numbers, and their size limitation grows for every member killed. Demagogue has a hard static limit to conversions, and moreover would have a "decapitation" mechanic in which the entire faction can be eliminated simply by killing the Demagogue (like Cult Leader). Moreover, unlike current Cult, this wouldn't even kill the other members of the faction. It would simply revert them to Town. Not only does this preserve the players in the game, and keep things fun for everyone, but by defeating the Demagogue the Town is actually in a [B]superior[/B] position because all former members of the Demagogue's faction have confirmed each other's roles and alignment by virtue of membership in the Demagogue night chat which displays other members and their (prefixed) Town roles.

Yeah, I can agree with that analysis. I suppose it can be marked as Neutral Killing instead of Neutral Evil, as after all the Demagogue gives the ability to kill other players to its members.

I tried to temper conversions by 1: limiting it. Cult can endlessly convert town, replenish their numbers, and their size limitation grows for every member killed. Demagogue has a hard static limit to conversions, and moreover would have a "decapitation" mechanic in which the entire faction can be eliminated simply by killing the Demagogue (like Cult Leader). Moreover, unlike current Cult, this wouldn't even kill the other members of the faction. It would simply revert them to Town. Not only does this preserve the players in the game, and keep things fun for everyone, but by defeating the Demagogue the Town is actually in a superior position because all former members of the Demagogue's faction have confirmed each other's roles and alignment by virtue of membership in the Demagogue night chat which displays other members and their (prefixed) Town roles.

I completely agree with the post. Crier is a useless role made even more useless by Judge. At the very least, Crier should get a Court Reporter highlight during Judge court.

I completely agree with the post. Crier is a useless role made even more useless by Judge. At the very least, Crier should get a Court Reporter highlight during Judge court.

[COLOR="#00FF00"][SIZE=4][B]THIS IS A POTENTIAL REPLACEMENT FOR CULT[/B]
[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[B][COLOR="#BE3681"]Demagogue[/COLOR][/B] ([I]Neutral Evil)[/I] "A radical populist who will stop at nothing to bring down the establishment - even if it means burning it all down in the process."

Alternative names: Terrorist Leader, Political Extremist, Revolutionary

Every night, the Demagogue may choose a target to visit. If that target is a Citizen or non-Government town, they are "doused" / flagged. The target will know they were flagged, as they will receive this message.

[I]"A charismatic individual talked to you at length about the evils of the Town government, and passionately shares his vision of the future. A better world is possible! You are now a [/I][B][COLOR="#FF0000"]Sympathizer / Fellow Traveler[/COLOR][/B]."

[B][COLOR="#BE3681"]Demagogue[/COLOR][/B] cannot flag Mafia / Triad, Neutrals, or Town Government roles (excluding Citizen). Attempting to do so will not alert the target, but give feedback to the player that they realized their target did not appear "susceptible to radicalization" because they are Town Government / Mafia / Triad / Neutral, and thus you walked away. This serves as a soft detect function for Demagogue.

At the [B][COLOR="#BE3681"]Demagogue's[/COLOR][/B] discretion, they may "activate" their flags at night. This converts all flagged players to the [B][COLOR="#BE3681"]Demagogue's[/COLOR][/B] faction. [B]Converted players retains their original roles and abilities.[/B] The only difference is that their roles are [B]prefixed[/B] (e.g. Radicalized Party Host, or Rebel Spy).

Converted players become part of a group night chat with the [B][COLOR="#BE3681"]Demagogue[/COLOR][/B]. In addition, all feedback is shared with members of the [B][COLOR="#BE3681"]Demagogue's[/COLOR][/B] night chat (e.g. Spy targets, Invest results).

After the [B][COLOR="#BE3681"]Demagogue[/COLOR][/B] activates his flags and converts players, and after the Demagogue has consumed all flags, the Demagogue no longer has any contributions beyond being a member of the faction and having a lynch vote. However, because the other players retain their original roles and abilities, they may use their abilities to bring down their enemies (and hide from other Town Investigatives).

Converted players have an [B]additional night ability[/B] on top of other night abilities they may or may not have. They may visit a house and detonate a suicide bomb. This has similar mechanics to the Mass Murderer's killing spree ability. The bomb will only kill whoever was at that house at night. The only guaranteed kill is the player himself, so it is possible for a bomb to detonate and kill no one other than suiciding the player if no one visited the house, and the owner of that house visited someone else that night.

[B][COLOR="#BE3681"]Demagogue[/COLOR][/B] cannot win with Mafia / Triad or Neutral Killing roles. The goal of the Demagogue is to eliminate the Town, Mafia / Triad, and Neutral Killing roles.

When audited, [B][COLOR="#BE3681"]Demagogue[/COLOR][/B] becomes Scumbag, and they lose their night abilities. If they have already converted players, they are still a member of the night chat and faction.

When audited, converted players become Citizens, but still retain their membership in the [B][COLOR="#BE3681"]Demagogue's[/COLOR][/B] faction and night chat, and they still retain their additional suicide bomb night ability.


[B]Options[/B]

1: [B][COLOR="#BE3681"]Demagogue[/COLOR][/B] is limited to 3 flags (default is 2).

2: [B][COLOR="#BE3681"]Demagogue[/COLOR][/B] cannot be roleblocked.

3: Jailor and Bodyguard knows if someone is flagged.

[B][SIZE=3]Why Demagogue?[/SIZE][/B]

Demagogue does not have an issue with unrelenting growth that the Cult has, as it has a limited number of converts. This is balanced by converts retaining their original role - which is a bonus to the fun factor of the players involved, and allows players to have a strong provable alibi for Town - and gaining a skill-based suicidal night ability. This ability can end up hurting the Demagogue more often than not, as failing to kill priority targets will reduce the already limited size of the faction.

Demagogue cannot stack with Mafia / Triad / Neutral Killing, which prevents overpressure on the Town, and keeps things interesting for the other factions.

Demagogue cannot just convert people at random and call it a day. Limited number of converts + a two-stage activation ability akin to the Arsonist requires the Demagogue to 1: figure out the roles of the other players 2: choose high value targets such as Power roles, but not so visible that they will be killed before converting them, and 3: do this all in a timely manner considering the two-stage nature of the ability. Demagogue thus can only really become a strong force mid or late game, as opposed to the Cult that is converting Town's at Night 1.

[B]Potential problems of my proposed rework:[/B]

Suicide bombing ability may still be overpowered, considering every member aside from the Demagogue gets it on top of their original role abilities. An additional limitation to be considered is that there is ONE suicide bomb for the entire faction, and the night chat may choose who will be the one to use it. Once it is consumed, it cannot be replenished.

Changing win conditions is still punishing for converted players. And being able to take out a sizeable fraction of the town is still significant. Another consideration for Demagogue is to give the option for Demagogue to be Night Immune. If the Demagogue is somehow killed/lynched after converting players, the faction is disbanded and converted players revert to Town. The only problem with this consideration is the possibility of gamethrowing on part of faction members. For example, if someone wants a Town-Jailor win and they are converted, they can out who the Demagogue is and have them killed so that they can return to Town. Although generally players in Mafia are pretty good about this, in my experience at least. A response to this would be to allow members to still get original role wins, e.g. converted Jailors still get Jailor wins as after all they are still a Jailor, but the win will not count for Town but for Demagogue.

THIS IS A POTENTIAL REPLACEMENT FOR CULT


Demagogue (Neutral Evil) "A radical populist who will stop at nothing to bring down the establishment - even if it means burning it all down in the process."

Alternative names: Terrorist Leader, Political Extremist, Revolutionary

Every night, the Demagogue may choose a target to visit. If that target is a Citizen or non-Government town, they are "doused" / flagged. The target will know they were flagged, as they will receive this message.

"A charismatic individual talked to you at length about the evils of the Town government, and passionately shares his vision of the future. A better world is possible! You are now a Sympathizer / Fellow Traveler."

Demagogue cannot flag Mafia / Triad, Neutrals, or Town Government roles (excluding Citizen). Attempting to do so will not alert the target, but give feedback to the player that they realized their target did not appear "susceptible to radicalization" because they are Town Government / Mafia / Triad / Neutral, and thus you walked away. This serves as a soft detect function for Demagogue.

At the Demagogue's discretion, they may "activate" their flags at night. This converts all flagged players to the Demagogue's faction. Converted players retains their original roles and abilities. The only difference is that their roles are prefixed (e.g. Radicalized Party Host, or Rebel Spy).

Converted players become part of a group night chat with the Demagogue. In addition, all feedback is shared with members of the Demagogue's night chat (e.g. Spy targets, Invest results).

After the Demagogue activates his flags and converts players, and after the Demagogue has consumed all flags, the Demagogue no longer has any contributions beyond being a member of the faction and having a lynch vote. However, because the other players retain their original roles and abilities, they may use their abilities to bring down their enemies (and hide from other Town Investigatives).

Converted players have an additional night ability on top of other night abilities they may or may not have. They may visit a house and detonate a suicide bomb. This has similar mechanics to the Mass Murderer's killing spree ability. The bomb will only kill whoever was at that house at night. The only guaranteed kill is the player himself, so it is possible for a bomb to detonate and kill no one other than suiciding the player if no one visited the house, and the owner of that house visited someone else that night.

Demagogue cannot win with Mafia / Triad or Neutral Killing roles. The goal of the Demagogue is to eliminate the Town, Mafia / Triad, and Neutral Killing roles.

When audited, Demagogue becomes Scumbag, and they lose their night abilities. If they have already converted players, they are still a member of the night chat and faction.

When audited, converted players become Citizens, but still retain their membership in the Demagogue's faction and night chat, and they still retain their additional suicide bomb night ability.


Options

1: Demagogue is limited to 3 flags (default is 2).

2: Demagogue cannot be roleblocked.

3: Jailor and Bodyguard knows if someone is flagged.

Why Demagogue?

Demagogue does not have an issue with unrelenting growth that the Cult has, as it has a limited number of converts. This is balanced by converts retaining their original role - which is a bonus to the fun factor of the players involved, and allows players to have a strong provable alibi for Town - and gaining a skill-based suicidal night ability. This ability can end up hurting the Demagogue more often than not, as failing to kill priority targets will reduce the already limited size of the faction.

Demagogue cannot stack with Mafia / Triad / Neutral Killing, which prevents overpressure on the Town, and keeps things interesting for the other factions.

Demagogue cannot just convert people at random and call it a day. Limited number of converts + a two-stage activation ability akin to the Arsonist requires the Demagogue to 1: figure out the roles of the other players 2: choose high value targets such as Power roles, but not so visible that they will be killed before converting them, and 3: do this all in a timely manner considering the two-stage nature of the ability. Demagogue thus can only really become a strong force mid or late game, as opposed to the Cult that is converting Town's at Night 1.

Potential problems of my proposed rework:

Suicide bombing ability may still be overpowered, considering every member aside from the Demagogue gets it on top of their original role abilities. An additional limitation to be considered is that there is ONE suicide bomb for the entire faction, and the night chat may choose who will be the one to use it. Once it is consumed, it cannot be replenished.

Changing win conditions is still punishing for converted players. And being able to take out a sizeable fraction of the town is still significant. Another consideration for Demagogue is to give the option for Demagogue to be Night Immune. If the Demagogue is somehow killed/lynched after converting players, the faction is disbanded and converted players revert to Town. The only problem with this consideration is the possibility of gamethrowing on part of faction members. For example, if someone wants a Town-Jailor win and they are converted, they can out who the Demagogue is and have them killed so that they can return to Town. Although generally players in Mafia are pretty good about this, in my experience at least. A response to this would be to allow members to still get original role wins, e.g. converted Jailors still get Jailor wins as after all they are still a Jailor, but the win will not count for Town but for Demagogue.

SpaceMilk#1182

[url]https://starcraft2.com/en-us/profile/1/1/3920873[/url]

SC2 name: SpaceMilk

Realm: US / NA

[url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/46213-SpaceMilk-1-s2-1-3920873?highlight=spacemilk[/url]

I was approved for :

Approved for 6708 points, 142 wins, 325 games played, + achieves

You'll need to meet up with an in-game admin to complete the restore on SC2. Your best bet for that is using the @point restore tag on our discord server.

I had to reinstall windows because of a virus. I just ask for the same point restore that I got last time.

SpaceMilk#1182

https://starcraft2.com/en-us/profile/1/1/3920873

SC2 name: SpaceMilk

Realm: US / NA

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...ight=spacemilk

I was approved for :

Approved for 6708 points, 142 wins, 325 games played, + achieves

You'll need to meet up with an in-game admin to complete the restore on SC2. Your best bet for that is using the @point restore tag on our discord server.

I had to reinstall windows because of a virus. I just ask for the same point restore that I got last time.

Approximate points: I couldn't tell you an exact number. I know I got to one of the glowing hats (glowing jester hat?), and I THINK I got the mothership execution, but I didn't get as far as to have colored names or beyond mothership.

Approximate points: I couldn't tell you an exact number. I know I got to one of the glowing hats (glowing jester hat?), and I THINK I got the mothership execution, but I didn't get as far as to have colored names or beyond mothership.

[QUOTE=Space Milk;850948]As you can see this forum account I am using has existed for quite a long time and have made posts here almost a decade ago. I have played for many years and stopped maybe 2014-2015?

SpaceMilk#1182

[url]https://starcraft2.com/en-us/profile/1/1/3920873[/url]

SC2 name: SpaceMilk[/QUOTE]

Realm: US / NA

Originally Posted by Space Milk

As you can see this forum account I am using has existed for quite a long time and have made posts here almost a decade ago. I have played for many years and stopped maybe 2014-2015?

SpaceMilk#1182

https://starcraft2.com/en-us/profile/1/1/3920873

SC2 name: SpaceMilk

Realm: US / NA

As you can see this forum account I am using has existed for quite a long time and have made posts here almost a decade ago. I have played for many years and stopped maybe 2014-2015?

SpaceMilk#1182

[url]https://starcraft2.com/en-us/profile/1/1/3920873[/url]

SC2 name: SpaceMilk

As you can see this forum account I am using has existed for quite a long time and have made posts here almost a decade ago. I have played for many years and stopped maybe 2014-2015?

SpaceMilk#1182

https://starcraft2.com/en-us/profile/1/1/3920873

SC2 name: SpaceMilk

[QUOTE=TurdPile;430550]He is. Try reading what's already been said.[/QUOTE]

Whoa, well he must have a ton of alts.

Originally Posted by TurdPile

He is. Try reading what's already been said.

Whoa, well he must have a ton of alts.

[QUOTE=Mugy;430531]Exactly.[/QUOTE]

Why isn't HE banned?

Originally Posted by Mugy

Exactly.

Why isn't HE banned?

[QUOTE=Mugy;430397]It's supposed to be for those people who spam swastikas and cause leave trains.[/QUOTE]


Necroplant does that in everygame he goes into...

Originally Posted by Mugy

It's supposed to be for those people who spam swastikas and cause leave trains.

Necroplant does that in everygame he goes into...

[QUOTE=cattack;430371]Not sure what is up with that guy. I've got a replay of him where he reported every single person in the lobby and then leaves. Leaving reports on 14 players before the game even made it to the name selection. Which reminds me. Why can you get reported before you even play the game?

Another is, should I upload the replay of him reporting 14 players before he leaves? Pretty sure it's report abuse. The only reason I could see some one doing this is to check who got how many reports in the last 20 days and then get dropped from the setup, unable to -unreport some one. Which begs the next question. Why can you see how many times some one was reported if report some one to begin with?[/QUOTE]

Ahh, now I remember when a guy wondered why he was watchlisted, and another player told him not to worry about it because tafkal was mass reporting him. Didn't think much of it until now.
I agree, no reason to report ANYONE pre game. At all.

Originally Posted by cattack

Not sure what is up with that guy. I've got a replay of him where he reported every single person in the lobby and then leaves. Leaving reports on 14 players before the game even made it to the name selection. Which reminds me. Why can you get reported before you even play the game?

Another is, should I upload the replay of him reporting 14 players before he leaves? Pretty sure it's report abuse. The only reason I could see some one doing this is to check who got how many reports in the last 20 days and then get dropped from the setup, unable to -unreport some one. Which begs the next question. Why can you see how many times some one was reported if report some one to begin with?

Ahh, now I remember when a guy wondered why he was watchlisted, and another player told him not to worry about it because tafkal was mass reporting him. Didn't think much of it until now.
I agree, no reason to report ANYONE pre game. At all.

Ok, thats great that the watchlists are gone, so is tafkal a legit ban that got away with it or is it unlegit and he was unbanned?
What does smurf mean? The necro guys are unbannable? These guys mess every game they get into. I am sure no one needs a replay to determine that.

Ok, thats great that the watchlists are gone, so is tafkal a legit ban that got away with it or is it unlegit and he was unbanned?
What does smurf mean? The necro guys are unbannable? These guys mess every game they get into. I am sure no one needs a replay to determine that.

Well if any one has been playing mafia recently, they should know a player has been banned recently: Tafkal.
Weird thing though, he has been going into games ALL the time and each one he was kicked (have no idea why, has been doing it for days, if you are banned, you are banned)
But then I got in a game with him, along with necro jerks, and HE WAS NOT KICKED, infact, nothing was said.
So just in case, I sifted through the report appeals, I see nothing about tafkal.

Is this a bug, or was his unbanning off the record?
Just something that caught my eye, and thought it was worth Putin out there.


ALSO, why hasn't necro plant, zeratul, and all his [THROW] followers been banned?
Seriously, I am CERTAIN a mod around here, or ANYONE around here has played with them. They spam crazy chinese symbols, and REPICK every good person and save, until a necro jerk gets it, and he puts crazy 14 sk or vigi saves.
Is that not, FFS, gamethrowing at all? His main group even is [THROW] we throw mafia games.
Just surprising, that this blatantly obvious gamethrowing cult that everyone knows, has not been dealt with.

Well if any one has been playing mafia recently, they should know a player has been banned recently: Tafkal.
Weird thing though, he has been going into games ALL the time and each one he was kicked (have no idea why, has been doing it for days, if you are banned, you are banned)
But then I got in a game with him, along with necro jerks, and HE WAS NOT KICKED, infact, nothing was said.
So just in case, I sifted through the report appeals, I see nothing about tafkal.

Is this a bug, or was his unbanning off the record?
Just something that caught my eye, and thought it was worth Putin out there.


ALSO, why hasn't necro plant, zeratul, and all his [THROW] followers been banned?
Seriously, I am CERTAIN a mod around here, or ANYONE around here has played with them. They spam crazy chinese symbols, and REPICK every good person and save, until a necro jerk gets it, and he puts crazy 14 sk or vigi saves.
Is that not, FFS, gamethrowing at all? His main group even is [THROW] we throw mafia games.
Just surprising, that this blatantly obvious gamethrowing cult that everyone knows, has not been dealt with.

Wait we copied THEIR logo? It looks EXACTLY the same but flipped???

Wait we copied THEIR logo? It looks EXACTLY the same but flipped???

Shouldn't it be select 3 players, or all available players if it equals =<3 so that end game you can still choose and use this ability. I think it could work btw.

Shouldn't it be select 3 players, or all available players if it equals =<3 so that end game you can still choose and use this ability. I think it could work btw.

Well you gotta admit guys, this community is pretty freaking terrible.
Probably the worst I have ever seen.
Which is why it is so fun!

I really like playing with racists and nazis because its just so damn funny. I don't get offended, but thats because I have a problem with differentiating insults and jokes.


EDIT: OP you just gotta deal with it man. These people are everywhere, but mostly they are here unfortunately, and if ya wanna play the game, ya gotta play THEIR game and go with the racist flow. Trolls will always be attacking you. Keep in mind that even though there are many trolls, they only are a small part of the community. Most of the people are very kind and nice, intelligent and fun to play with. Makes the game like Sherlock Holmes.
This game is worth it trust me. Unless you are under 21 in terms of maturity of course, the blood guts and politics are too disgusting for many minds.

EDIT 2: I am really surprised that we actually have underaged staff with infraction powers.
But if Dark Revenant is willing to trust underaged kids then we have to trust them too, considering his judgement is sound, and so far they have done extremely well in their job.

Well you gotta admit guys, this community is pretty freaking terrible.
Probably the worst I have ever seen.
Which is why it is so fun!

I really like playing with racists and nazis because its just so damn funny. I don't get offended, but thats because I have a problem with differentiating insults and jokes.


EDIT: OP you just gotta deal with it man. These people are everywhere, but mostly they are here unfortunately, and if ya wanna play the game, ya gotta play THEIR game and go with the racist flow. Trolls will always be attacking you. Keep in mind that even though there are many trolls, they only are a small part of the community. Most of the people are very kind and nice, intelligent and fun to play with. Makes the game like Sherlock Holmes.
This game is worth it trust me. Unless you are under 21 in terms of maturity of course, the blood guts and politics are too disgusting for many minds.

EDIT 2: I am really surprised that we actually have underaged staff with infraction powers.
But if Dark Revenant is willing to trust underaged kids then we have to trust them too, considering his judgement is sound, and so far they have done extremely well in their job.

[QUOTE=Account;428227]Don't you get it? SOTD is the problem. Mix good setups with SOTD = still a problem.

This isn't "SOTD" discussion. This is: "make a new setup section" discussion.

The 9-3-3 in SOTD is NOT "9-3-3"; it is mass random garbage with 9 town, 3 hitmen, and 3 neutrals. That is not "standard" 9-3-3.

Standard 9-3-3 = exactly what I typed in the first post of this thread.[/QUOTE]

LOL if you guys want STANDARD 9-3-3 then do Classic. THAT IS "standard" 100%, yet people don't want it, they don't know what they want. SOTD is fine, the people are not.
SOTD should be the place where people go for some new and exciting saves, not for something standard, which has been right there all along, classic.

Originally Posted by Account

Don't you get it? SOTD is the problem. Mix good setups with SOTD = still a problem.

This isn't "SOTD" discussion. This is: "make a new setup section" discussion.

The 9-3-3 in SOTD is NOT "9-3-3"; it is mass random garbage with 9 town, 3 hitmen, and 3 neutrals. That is not "standard" 9-3-3.

Standard 9-3-3 = exactly what I typed in the first post of this thread.

LOL if you guys want STANDARD 9-3-3 then do Classic. THAT IS "standard" 100%, yet people don't want it, they don't know what they want. SOTD is fine, the people are not.
SOTD should be the place where people go for some new and exciting saves, not for something standard, which has been right there all along, classic.

No communication or interaction with the dead, specifically said in the stickies man.

No communication or interaction with the dead, specifically said in the stickies man.

[QUOTE=ShadowLing;427923]YES
only qualm I think people will have is they will say cult is already pretty strong, and this will help cult A LOT when it comes to resisting killers

THEREFORE-
give masons and maybe mafia/triad a new role that will combat/ soft counter this role

Purest
Alignment-town

Description - N/A (Can not spawn from the start, a mason must convert into this role)
Category- (well it comes from citizen, so technically it would be government just like mason)

ability: Visit a person each night, if you enter the house as the Death worshiper They die and you prevent any Rituals
You can talk with other masons at night

Special attributes: if you successfully kill a Death Worshiper, or if your leader is killed you convert to mason
if the death worshipers Ritual draws blood, you become a citizen and must be Re-masoned by the mason leader
if you enter the same house as an Anarchist, they die.
if you enter the house containing a bomb set by an anarchist, it will not detonate.

Make it a mason (or more) have the option to convert to mason purest once it is known that there is a Anarchy Fanatic on the loose

Message for Successfully killing death worshiper- You enter the house and find your satanic enemy setting a bomb, you swiftly bludgeon him and defuse it.
Message for Failure- The cult has successfully detonated a bomb in the town! you are so ashamed you leave the Masonic Order!

I also think the cause of death should be very specific since it will be generally a rare kill (for the Death worshiper kill): Last night etc.. A bomb believed to have been planted by an Anarchist was detonated inside his/her house

Investigator message- Your Target seems to have honed their skills of calmness and concentration, you conclude they are either a Purist or an Anarchist


Another role that is similar, almost like death worshiper being the veteran and Anarchist being the mass murderer

Role- Anarchist
Alignment- Cult
Description- You are a Fanatic cultist who desires only death upon the enemies of the cult!

Ability- Visit Someone each night, Set an explosive in their house
If that person is attacked and dies exactly 1 night later all visitors to the house die.

Special Attributes-
You cannot successfully lay bombs in the houses of Mafia, Triad or Mason members.
Your attacks do not ignore night immunity
if you visit a mason he will discover who you are
if you visit a mafia/triad member, he will discover who you are
You can lay Bombs in cultist houses (default off)
If a masonic purist visits your house, you die
If a masonic purist visits the house of your bomb, it will not detonate.
You can speak with the cult at night.

Investigator message- Your Target seems to have honed their skills of calmness and concentration, you conclude they are either a Purist an Anarchist

Death description- She/He was found carved with what appeared to be metal fragments from a shrapnel bombing.

Wow, that was a lot of editing, it's just like I couldn't stop refining this idea that randomly came into my head! cool!


also- Mason Leaders cannot convert to Purists, only masons can do this
also- have it so it takes 1 full night of "training" for a mason to become a purist.
maybe- have it so if a mason converts to purist he cannot speak with the other masons at night (so he must coordinate during the day)[/QUOTE]

I really like where this is going, could add more depth to masons and cults.

Originally Posted by ShadowLing

YES
only qualm I think people will have is they will say cult is already pretty strong, and this will help cult A LOT when it comes to resisting killers

THEREFORE-
give masons and maybe mafia/triad a new role that will combat/ soft counter this role

Purest
Alignment-town

Description - N/A (Can not spawn from the start, a mason must convert into this role)
Category- (well it comes from citizen, so technically it would be government just like mason)

ability: Visit a person each night, if you enter the house as the Death worshiper They die and you prevent any Rituals
You can talk with other masons at night

Special attributes: if you successfully kill a Death Worshiper, or if your leader is killed you convert to mason
if the death worshipers Ritual draws blood, you become a citizen and must be Re-masoned by the mason leader
if you enter the same house as an Anarchist, they die.
if you enter the house containing a bomb set by an anarchist, it will not detonate.

Make it a mason (or more) have the option to convert to mason purest once it is known that there is a Anarchy Fanatic on the loose

Message for Successfully killing death worshiper- You enter the house and find your satanic enemy setting a bomb, you swiftly bludgeon him and defuse it.
Message for Failure- The cult has successfully detonated a bomb in the town! you are so ashamed you leave the Masonic Order!

I also think the cause of death should be very specific since it will be generally a rare kill (for the Death worshiper kill): Last night etc.. A bomb believed to have been planted by an Anarchist was detonated inside his/her house

Investigator message- Your Target seems to have honed their skills of calmness and concentration, you conclude they are either a Purist or an Anarchist


Another role that is similar, almost like death worshiper being the veteran and Anarchist being the mass murderer

Role- Anarchist
Alignment- Cult
Description- You are a Fanatic cultist who desires only death upon the enemies of the cult!

Ability- Visit Someone each night, Set an explosive in their house
If that person is attacked and dies exactly 1 night later all visitors to the house die.

Special Attributes-
You cannot successfully lay bombs in the houses of Mafia, Triad or Mason members.
Your attacks do not ignore night immunity
if you visit a mason he will discover who you are
if you visit a mafia/triad member, he will discover who you are
You can lay Bombs in cultist houses (default off)
If a masonic purist visits your house, you die
If a masonic purist visits the house of your bomb, it will not detonate.
You can speak with the cult at night.

Investigator message- Your Target seems to have honed their skills of calmness and concentration, you conclude they are either a Purist an Anarchist

Death description- She/He was found carved with what appeared to be metal fragments from a shrapnel bombing.

Wow, that was a lot of editing, it's just like I couldn't stop refining this idea that randomly came into my head! cool!


also- Mason Leaders cannot convert to Purists, only masons can do this
also- have it so it takes 1 full night of "training" for a mason to become a purist.
maybe- have it so if a mason converts to purist he cannot speak with the other masons at night (so he must coordinate during the day)

I really like where this is going, could add more depth to masons and cults.

Well this is actually a good idea. I thought I already made a post that upped this but to reiterate, great idea.

Well this is actually a good idea. I thought I already made a post that upped this but to reiterate, great idea.

Role: Death Worshiper
Team: Cult/Neutral Benign
Description: The Death Worshiper is a fanatic cult member who desires only death.
Ability: Whenever he is killed by someone at night, the Death Worshiper kills the people that killed/visited him (not sure which one I should do) and counts as a cultist death for the cult. (means if enough DW and Cultists die, more slots can be added to cult) Does not count as taking up cult space though (if max cult size is 3, there can be 3 cultists and 2 DW, or 11 DW, doesn't matter)
Spec Abilities:
-Kills bypass immunity.
-Targets are healed against other attacks.
-Kills visitors/killers
-Counts as cultist death
-Does not take up cult space
Invest message: (Same as a cultist)
Cause of Death: ___ died of a heart attack OR ___ was horrifically mutilated in a satanic/cultist ritual.
Goal: Get killed at night.

Optional:
-Night Immunity.
-Cannot bypass immunity
-Not Part of cult
-Does not count as cult death

PS: It is possible to add this ability: If there are no roles that can kill at all in the game, DW becomes a cultist/Jester/Kills himself.



EDIT:
I just thought about other mechanics with this role.
One might be that the DW can choose to "praise" at night, allowing him to kill all people who visited him/killed him IF he is killed that night.
The other thing is that, if the DW is NOT praising, and invest checks him, he could come up as a cit, meaning not suspicious.
If invest checks him on night of praise but he is not killed, it comes up as cult/DW.
Other things could be that if the DW is alone, he can become cultist.
I personally believe there is much to do with this role.

Role: Death Worshiper
Team: Cult/Neutral Benign
Description: The Death Worshiper is a fanatic cult member who desires only death.
Ability: Whenever he is killed by someone at night, the Death Worshiper kills the people that killed/visited him (not sure which one I should do) and counts as a cultist death for the cult. (means if enough DW and Cultists die, more slots can be added to cult) Does not count as taking up cult space though (if max cult size is 3, there can be 3 cultists and 2 DW, or 11 DW, doesn't matter)
Spec Abilities:
-Kills bypass immunity.
-Targets are healed against other attacks.
-Kills visitors/killers
-Counts as cultist death
-Does not take up cult space
Invest message: (Same as a cultist)
Cause of Death: ___ died of a heart attack OR ___ was horrifically mutilated in a satanic/cultist ritual.
Goal: Get killed at night.

Optional:
-Night Immunity.
-Cannot bypass immunity
-Not Part of cult
-Does not count as cult death

PS: It is possible to add this ability: If there are no roles that can kill at all in the game, DW becomes a cultist/Jester/Kills himself.



EDIT:
I just thought about other mechanics with this role.
One might be that the DW can choose to "praise" at night, allowing him to kill all people who visited him/killed him IF he is killed that night.
The other thing is that, if the DW is NOT praising, and invest checks him, he could come up as a cit, meaning not suspicious.
If invest checks him on night of praise but he is not killed, it comes up as cult/DW.
Other things could be that if the DW is alone, he can become cultist.
I personally believe there is much to do with this role.

I always found aldaris, xentios, and rlvg saves were the best SOTDs ever. Cannot even be compared to average saves by me or other people.
People downvoting all aldaris saves are just ignorant and static.

I always found aldaris, xentios, and rlvg saves were the best SOTDs ever. Cannot even be compared to average saves by me or other people.
People downvoting all aldaris saves are just ignorant and static.

[QUOTE=Slaol;427559]Claimed Survivor? Wasn't on trial until late game? Pleb.

I won claiming Serial Killer day 1, accusing myself everyday, and being innocented 3 (or 4) times on trial. I didn't kill until the final night and instead spent the entire game convincing the town that a living Serial Killer was in their best interest.[/QUOTE]
Well, that is certainly really really good. If ya got a replay of that I would like to add it to my collection.

Originally Posted by Slaol

Claimed Survivor? Wasn't on trial until late game? Pleb.

I won claiming Serial Killer day 1, accusing myself everyday, and being innocented 3 (or 4) times on trial. I didn't kill until the final night and instead spent the entire game convincing the town that a living Serial Killer was in their best interest.

Well, that is certainly really really good. If ya got a replay of that I would like to add it to my collection.

Damn. This sk guy (not me) really really owned.
I cannot describe how epic this is.
Just watch it and see.




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Now if you are too lazy here is the TLDR
Town is basically lynching themselves and being tricked by jests. Maf slowly picks them apart.
A guy, 6, who claims surv was actually sk but did not kill ANYONE, nor did he try.
When it became 2 town 1 arson (since no sk kills but 1 neut killing we thought arson) and 2 maf
The maf and the other townie guy (I am 2 in this, the jailor) try to lynch 6, but I plead for the last townie to inno, AND HE DID.
SK said he would help us, and we lynched the kidnapper, who died saying sk was a cheater and you cannot side with town.
I was like what the heck, hes a good guy, really nice. We put ALL our trust into him.
Next day 2 town 1 sk and 1 maf, no deaths. We lynch the maf guy and the next night went by.
But I felt something was wrong. No, this was too easy, TOO easy, why would any one be so forgiving for a bad town?

And the other townie was killed by the sk..
IN ONE MOVE AT THE LAST NIGHT, THE SK WON.
The maf guy who reported him said he wished he could take it back, it was such a good win...

Damn. This sk guy (not me) really really owned.
I cannot describe how epic this is.
Just watch it and see.








Now if you are too lazy here is the TLDR
Town is basically lynching themselves and being tricked by jests. Maf slowly picks them apart.
A guy, 6, who claims surv was actually sk but did not kill ANYONE, nor did he try.
When it became 2 town 1 arson (since no sk kills but 1 neut killing we thought arson) and 2 maf
The maf and the other townie guy (I am 2 in this, the jailor) try to lynch 6, but I plead for the last townie to inno, AND HE DID.
SK said he would help us, and we lynched the kidnapper, who died saying sk was a cheater and you cannot side with town.
I was like what the heck, hes a good guy, really nice. We put ALL our trust into him.
Next day 2 town 1 sk and 1 maf, no deaths. We lynch the maf guy and the next night went by.
But I felt something was wrong. No, this was too easy, TOO easy, why would any one be so forgiving for a bad town?

And the other townie was killed by the sk..
IN ONE MOVE AT THE LAST NIGHT, THE SK WON.
The maf guy who reported him said he wished he could take it back, it was such a good win...