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[QUOTE=one_asparagus;933841] I agree that admins should play more, and they should go in incognito. I have yet to play a game where there wasn't some verbally abusive troll trying to trigger anyone that refused to mute them. Kind of like how you instantly jumped onto me and assumed I was attacking you. Not impressed so far.[/QUOTE]

That's this community 100%. There is literally someone mewling about muting this thread and begging leadership to ban me, like I'm an evil person, because I have one offense of racism. Meanwhile he literally is on the watchlist for gamethrowing and has several other prior game-ruining offenses. So he literally throws games, but I'm the bad guy because I'm not PC enough.

And lets not forget about how everyone lets personal feelings disrupt gameplay. I can't even name myself Bill Cosby without people targeting me n1.. but nothing gets done about that.

Originally Posted by one_asparagus

I agree that admins should play more, and they should go in incognito. I have yet to play a game where there wasn't some verbally abusive troll trying to trigger anyone that refused to mute them. Kind of like how you instantly jumped onto me and assumed I was attacking you. Not impressed so far.

That's this community 100%. There is literally someone mewling about muting this thread and begging leadership to ban me, like I'm an evil person, because I have one offense of racism. Meanwhile he literally is on the watchlist for gamethrowing and has several other prior game-ruining offenses. So he literally throws games, but I'm the bad guy because I'm not PC enough.

And lets not forget about how everyone lets personal feelings disrupt gameplay. I can't even name myself Bill Cosby without people targeting me n1.. but nothing gets done about that.

[QUOTE=one_asparagus;932274]I don't play this arcade map anymore because your community is absolute horse shit.[/QUOTE]

Or maybe you're just not that good of a player? I find that people who aren't good tend to blame everyone but themselves.

Originally Posted by one_asparagus

I don't play this arcade map anymore because your community is absolute horse shit.

Or maybe you're just not that good of a player? I find that people who aren't good tend to blame everyone but themselves.

[QUOTE=Unknown1234;932136]I think the staff has been fairly good with their responses despite the back and forth bantering between people. Their job is to make the game and community available to everyone and that shit isn’t easy. I’m sorry if you feel like you’re being silenced however actions have consequences. What staff decides to do at the end of the day is ultimately up to them, but just now that they are doing the best they can to keep the game alive and let people enjoy it. If you don’t agree, I’m sure you can try your luck at Town of Salem where they censor everything that they think could potentially offend their playerbase.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the input champ.

Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I think the staff has been fairly good with their responses despite the back and forth bantering between people. Their job is to make the game and community available to everyone and that shit isn’t easy. I’m sorry if you feel like you’re being silenced however actions have consequences. What staff decides to do at the end of the day is ultimately up to them, but just now that they are doing the best they can to keep the game alive and let people enjoy it. If you don’t agree, I’m sure you can try your luck at Town of Salem where they censor everything that they think could potentially offend their playerbase.

Thanks for the input champ.

[QUOTE=Unknown1234;932130]So in your mind, this is how the conversation should have gone.

Post #1 “does staff play the mod”

Post #2 “Aamirus Auwt and Mostache play quite regularly”

Post #3 “okay thanks bye”

I know ceko said this exact thing earlier, but people’s intentions are way too easy to read and it’s never as simple as this.[/QUOTE]

Well it didn't go the way you wanted. I'm sorry about that.

Originally Posted by Unknown1234

So in your mind, this is how the conversation should have gone.

Post #1 “does staff play the mod”

Post #2 “Aamirus Auwt and Mostache play quite regularly”

Post #3 “okay thanks bye”

I know ceko said this exact thing earlier, but people’s intentions are way too easy to read and it’s never as simple as this.

Well it didn't go the way you wanted. I'm sorry about that.

[QUOTE=Unknown1234;932128]The title of the thread actually instigates an argument, regardless of the message that actually follows.[/QUOTE]

It's this kind of "everything is offensive" mentality that is the problem. I asked a simple, relevant question. There's no need to take offense to it.

Originally Posted by Unknown1234

The title of the thread actually instigates an argument, regardless of the message that actually follows.

It's this kind of "everything is offensive" mentality that is the problem. I asked a simple, relevant question. There's no need to take offense to it.

Aww. I was hoping that would keep him out. But I guess ignore lists only keep me from seeing what he posts.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]27984[/ATTACH]

Aww. I was hoping that would keep him out. But I guess ignore lists only keep me from seeing what he posts.

[QUOTE=OzyWho;932107]Not initially, no.
It did look like this thread turned into a brawl though.

Tbh, you behaved yourself well in my opinion.
For some odd reason, some who feel like they can make good arguments also feel like it gives them leeway to shit on others whilst doing so.

I'm just interested to see if this thread is still salvageable tbh.[/QUOTE]

You noticed that too, huh? Would be hypocritical of me to point out people's speech while defending free speech so I just let it go for the most part.

Originally Posted by OzyWho

Not initially, no.
It did look like this thread turned into a brawl though.

Tbh, you behaved yourself well in my opinion.
For some odd reason, some who feel like they can make good arguments also feel like it gives them leeway to shit on others whilst doing so.

I'm just interested to see if this thread is still salvageable tbh.

You noticed that too, huh? Would be hypocritical of me to point out people's speech while defending free speech so I just let it go for the most part.

[QUOTE=OzyWho;932105]Btw, technically speaking, only the Serious Discussions and Debates subforum is protected from trolling. (Though not particularly enforced)

I feel like it's a question of just years for that to change? Maybe not, who can tell..[/QUOTE]

He's free to say whatever he wants. I don't need my thread protected from trolls. I just thought that I should say my piece once and get it out of the way. That way when I ignore the rest of his posts he'll know why.

Originally Posted by OzyWho

Btw, technically speaking, only the Serious Discussions and Debates subforum is protected from trolling. (Though not particularly enforced)

I feel like it's a question of just years for that to change? Maybe not, who can tell..

He's free to say whatever he wants. I don't need my thread protected from trolls. I just thought that I should say my piece once and get it out of the way. That way when I ignore the rest of his posts he'll know why.

[QUOTE=OzyWho;932097][MENTION=31836]Veliaire[/MENTION]
What do you want out of this thread looking forward?
One the one hand, you turned someone interested in honest discussion away. On the other hand, I see you attacking people.[/QUOTE]

Honest question here. Does it appear that I made this thread to attack everyone?

Originally Posted by OzyWho

@Veliaire
What do you want out of this thread looking forward?
One the one hand, you turned someone interested in honest discussion away. On the other hand, I see you attacking people.

Honest question here. Does it appear that I made this thread to attack everyone?

[QUOTE=theoneceko;932099]at least ik mods COULD do something about this.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, If you do not like what I have to say then you are free not to post in my thread. You're welcome to talk about the topic, but talking about how I need to be banned and how you would ban me if you were a mod is not the topic of this thread... but something tells me you came in here with the purpose of stirring up drama. You have absolutely no interest in talking about the topic, as is evident by every one of your posts thus far.

Originally Posted by theoneceko

at least ik mods COULD do something about this.

Honestly, If you do not like what I have to say then you are free not to post in my thread. You're welcome to talk about the topic, but talking about how I need to be banned and how you would ban me if you were a mod is not the topic of this thread... but something tells me you came in here with the purpose of stirring up drama. You have absolutely no interest in talking about the topic, as is evident by every one of your posts thus far.

[QUOTE=OzyWho;932097][MENTION=31836]Veliaire[/MENTION]
What do you want out of this thread looking forward?
One the one hand, you turned someone interested in honest discussion away. On the other hand, I see you attacking people.[/QUOTE]

I'm attacking people? Did you see what he said about me?

Originally Posted by OzyWho

@Veliaire
What do you want out of this thread looking forward?
One the one hand, you turned someone interested in honest discussion away. On the other hand, I see you attacking people.

I'm attacking people? Did you see what he said about me?

[QUOTE=theoneceko;932088]if i was a mod, i'd MUCH rather be seen as the dictator who bans ppl for slurs instead of someone who just makes them feel bad about themselves [B][COLOR="#00FFFF"]without actually doing anything[/COLOR][/B].

[/QUOTE]

Honestly, that much is clear. You are obviously some power hungry neoliberal with too much time on your hands. Nearly 4000 posts in 2 years tells me that you don't have much of a life, out side SC2 mafia. But do go on and tell us more of your fantasies about how you would moderate this community.

Originally Posted by theoneceko

if i was a mod, i'd MUCH rather be seen as the dictator who bans ppl for slurs instead of someone who just makes them feel bad about themselves without actually doing anything.

Honestly, that much is clear. You are obviously some power hungry neoliberal with too much time on your hands. Nearly 4000 posts in 2 years tells me that you don't have much of a life, out side SC2 mafia. But do go on and tell us more of your fantasies about how you would moderate this community.

[QUOTE=theoneceko;932084]im just glad mods can punish you (even if stealth and unknown, who are retired staff, went psycho mode). this discourages me from turning on my oops switch

voss you don't need to argue with this dumbass or be a bitch to put him down. you've a ban button, right?! tf is wrong with you.

tbh, this will just make the forums that much more different from the mod. it isn't just racists that are a problem. it's ppl being homophobic, transphobic, and sexist, things i all forgot.

if you're REALLY going to clean up the mod, then it will probably die[/QUOTE]

Thank you for reminding me why I ban you from my lobbies.

Originally Posted by theoneceko

im just glad mods can punish you (even if stealth and unknown, who are retired staff, went psycho mode). this discourages me from turning on my oops switch

voss you don't need to argue with this dumbass or be a bitch to put him down. you've a ban button, right?! tf is wrong with you.

tbh, this will just make the forums that much more different from the mod. it isn't just racists that are a problem. it's ppl being homophobic, transphobic, and sexist, things i all forgot.

if you're REALLY going to clean up the mod, then it will probably die

Thank you for reminding me why I ban you from my lobbies.

[QUOTE=Renegade;932078]Wow trumpkins are really losing it aren't they?[/QUOTE]

I didn't vote for Trump. I voted 3rd party in 2016 and I voted Biden in 2020 to get Trump out. You don't know what you're talking about... but isn't it just like a neoliberal to respond to criticism by saying "TRUMP BAD"?

EDIT: But lets not get off topic. This isn't a post about politics. I only said what I said in response to Oberon's mention of the Democratic Party.

Originally Posted by Renegade

Wow trumpkins are really losing it aren't they?

I didn't vote for Trump. I voted 3rd party in 2016 and I voted Biden in 2020 to get Trump out. You don't know what you're talking about... but isn't it just like a neoliberal to respond to criticism by saying "TRUMP BAD"?

EDIT: But lets not get off topic. This isn't a post about politics. I only said what I said in response to Oberon's mention of the Democratic Party.

[QUOTE=Oberon;932075]Maybe I'm tinfoil hatting too hard here but, you said the thought police doesn't let you say FreePalestine? I'm confused, the Democratic Party in the US is a known Palestine supporter (as is the UN), so uh... if anything I think it's the other way around lol[/QUOTE]

You'd think so, but the Neoliberal Democrat, PRO WAR party doesn't give a crap about Palestine. They would sooner see it burned to the ground than freed. Just look at what all the establishment types said these past few months. Just look how pro Palestine voices have been silenced in the liberal media. CNN contributor was fired for it a couple of years ago.

Both parties are horrible but the Democrat party is probably the worse. What did Biden do his first 60 days in office? No covid relief, but he made sure to send bombs over to Syria. Its ridiculous... but I'm not going to get into politics here. I don't want this post shut shut down and censored for going off track. There appear to be quite a few admins who are upset by this thread as it stands.

Originally Posted by Oberon

Maybe I'm tinfoil hatting too hard here but, you said the thought police doesn't let you say FreePalestine? I'm confused, the Democratic Party in the US is a known Palestine supporter (as is the UN), so uh... if anything I think it's the other way around lol

You'd think so, but the Neoliberal Democrat, PRO WAR party doesn't give a crap about Palestine. They would sooner see it burned to the ground than freed. Just look at what all the establishment types said these past few months. Just look how pro Palestine voices have been silenced in the liberal media. CNN contributor was fired for it a couple of years ago.

Both parties are horrible but the Democrat party is probably the worse. What did Biden do his first 60 days in office? No covid relief, but he made sure to send bombs over to Syria. Its ridiculous... but I'm not going to get into politics here. I don't want this post shut shut down and censored for going off track. There appear to be quite a few admins who are upset by this thread as it stands.

[QUOTE=theoneceko;932071]wait, veli actually typed that?

wtf[/QUOTE]

Yes, and Voss gave me a warning for it. Evidently, its against the rules to call a spade a spade.

Originally Posted by theoneceko

wait, veli actually typed that?

wtf

Yes, and Voss gave me a warning for it. Evidently, its against the rules to call a spade a spade.

[QUOTE=aamirus;932062]school is out? I am pretty sure most high schools are still in session. Colleges would have ended first week of may but I included april 8-may8 here too[/QUOTE]

In my area HS lets out in mid May. Colleges end in may too.

Originally Posted by aamirus

school is out? I am pretty sure most high schools are still in session. Colleges would have ended first week of may but I included april 8-may8 here too

In my area HS lets out in mid May. Colleges end in may too.

[QUOTE=aamirus;932059]There is a difference between israel and jews. I am not sure how "Money-Grubbing Jew" or "im a filthy money grubbing kike" has anything to do with israel or palestine[/QUOTE]

-Content removed by voss for being against the board rules-

Originally Posted by aamirus

There is a difference between israel and jews. I am not sure how "Money-Grubbing Jew" or "im a filthy money grubbing kike" has anything to do with israel or palestine

-Content removed by voss for being against the board rules-

[QUOTE=aamirus;932057]or if we look at the past 2 months versus the preceding time:
5192 lobbies since april 8
61 days
85.11 lobbies per day

13225 lobbies sep 28 to april 8
192 days
68.88 lobbies per day

so a 24% increase in activity the past 2 months versus the preceding 7 months[/QUOTE]

And you attribute that to censorship, and not the fact that school is out and more people are on during the summer? Interesting.

Originally Posted by aamirus

or if we look at the past 2 months versus the preceding time:
5192 lobbies since april 8
61 days
85.11 lobbies per day

13225 lobbies sep 28 to april 8
192 days
68.88 lobbies per day

so a 24% increase in activity the past 2 months versus the preceding 7 months

And you attribute that to censorship, and not the fact that school is out and more people are on during the summer? Interesting.

[QUOTE=Voss;932055]So... you're crusading on sc2mafia.com to stop the next rise of some Orwellian state. Major kudos.[/QUOTE]

Too late, we're already in it. It wasn't too long ago people were losing their jobs simply for typing #FreePalestine. If you do or say anything that goes against what the big brother deems is socially acceptable, the full force of the PC police will come down on you. That is the world in which we live now, and little pockets of the internet like this only perpetuate the problem.

Originally Posted by Voss

So... you're crusading on sc2mafia.com to stop the next rise of some Orwellian state. Major kudos.

Too late, we're already in it. It wasn't too long ago people were losing their jobs simply for typing #FreePalestine. If you do or say anything that goes against what the big brother deems is socially acceptable, the full force of the PC police will come down on you. That is the world in which we live now, and little pockets of the internet like this only perpetuate the problem.

[QUOTE=Voss;932048]You missed responding to my point about Twitter. Twitter is "farther along the slope" than sc2mafia. Is crusading for a small time game more important than defending the rights of the former [B]President of the United States of America?[/B][/QUOTE]

Little things add up. The world isn't black and white. Or "Important/Not Important". I never claimed censorship on Blizzard was as important as censoring the president, but it is all connected. The same type of person who would censor someone in an arcade game is the same type of person who would censor the president.. they know what's best for everyone else, and that's the end of it. Maybe those people at Twitter or FB learned to embrace Orwellian censorship at a young age while interacting with different companies online. Over the years we have cultivated a culture of censorship, and its only getting worse.

Originally Posted by Voss

You missed responding to my point about Twitter. Twitter is "farther along the slope" than sc2mafia. Is crusading for a small time game more important than defending the rights of the former President of the United States of America?

Little things add up. The world isn't black and white. Or "Important/Not Important". I never claimed censorship on Blizzard was as important as censoring the president, but it is all connected. The same type of person who would censor someone in an arcade game is the same type of person who would censor the president.. they know what's best for everyone else, and that's the end of it. Maybe those people at Twitter or FB learned to embrace Orwellian censorship at a young age while interacting with different companies online. Over the years we have cultivated a culture of censorship, and its only getting worse.

[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;932033]I think this is where the thread can end. [/QUOTE]

Why do you continue to post? Take your leave like you said you would.

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

I think this is where the thread can end.

Why do you continue to post? Take your leave like you said you would.

[QUOTE=Voss;932035]Nobody is forcing you to interact on the internet either. So what's your point?[/QUOTE]

I never claimed otherwise, did I? Is this the extent of your intellectual capability? To just flip a statement back at someone? "I know you are but what am I?"

Originally Posted by Voss

Nobody is forcing you to interact on the internet either. So what's your point?

I never claimed otherwise, did I? Is this the extent of your intellectual capability? To just flip a statement back at someone? "I know you are but what am I?"

[QUOTE=Unknown1234;932031]When you’re trying to argue free speech should allow racism on sc2mafia[/QUOTE]

Popular speech doesn't need protection. Its the unpopular speech that does. The speech that makes people uncomfortable.

Originally Posted by Unknown1234

When you’re trying to argue free speech should allow racism on sc2mafia

Popular speech doesn't need protection. Its the unpopular speech that does. The speech that makes people uncomfortable.

[QUOTE=Voss;932030]It also has a negative impact to society to be forced to interact with racist dribble. So one could call the arcade staff here heroes.

Assuming you think banning VIP for more "mundane" things is the next step in this spooky slippery slope, why don't you take this free speech crusade to the Twitter platform? They're obviously worse than us.[/QUOTE]

Nobody is forcing you to do anything.

Originally Posted by Voss

It also has a negative impact to society to be forced to interact with racist dribble. So one could call the arcade staff here heroes.

Assuming you think banning VIP for more "mundane" things is the next step in this spooky slippery slope, why don't you take this free speech crusade to the Twitter platform? They're obviously worse than us.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything.

[QUOTE=Stealthbomber16;932026]I’m pretty sure it’s almost universally accepted that you shouldn’t be a racist asshole. Both online and offline.[/QUOTE]

Did you learn that from CNN?

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

I’m pretty sure it’s almost universally accepted that you shouldn’t be a racist asshole. Both online and offline.

Did you learn that from CNN?

[QUOTE=Voss;932012]The arcade isn't a protected realm of free speech ;). This also isn't Twitter with millions of millions of users interacting with each other over a wide variety of cultural topics. We're MAYBE hundreds that interact over a small game.

Nice try at false equivalency though. If you don't like being banned for voting staff members in a game, don't play. I trust and applaud the arcade staff's decisions to draw the line on what they choose to moderate. Their efforts keep the game playable for the silent majority of users that don't want this distasteful behavior.

And as an added bonus, we get dipsticks to create these asinine "but mah free speech" threads for others to dunk upon. Maybe that should be one of the aspects we promote here on sc2mafia.com[/QUOTE]

No private entity is a protected realm of free speech. You are missing the point entirely. The entirety of the internet is owned by private companies. There is no place you can go online that isn't owned by someone. However, the internet is how people communicate.. and when you have thousands of different people telling you what you are and are not allowed to say, that has a negative impact on society as a whole.

Originally Posted by Voss

The arcade isn't a protected realm of free speech ;). This also isn't Twitter with millions of millions of users interacting with each other over a wide variety of cultural topics. We're MAYBE hundreds that interact over a small game.

Nice try at false equivalency though. If you don't like being banned for voting staff members in a game, don't play. I trust and applaud the arcade staff's decisions to draw the line on what they choose to moderate. Their efforts keep the game playable for the silent majority of users that don't want this distasteful behavior.

And as an added bonus, we get dipsticks to create these asinine "but mah free speech" threads for others to dunk upon. Maybe that should be one of the aspects we promote here on sc2mafia.com

No private entity is a protected realm of free speech. You are missing the point entirely. The entirety of the internet is owned by private companies. There is no place you can go online that isn't owned by someone. However, the internet is how people communicate.. and when you have thousands of different people telling you what you are and are not allowed to say, that has a negative impact on society as a whole.

[QUOTE=theoneceko;932010]bro idc if u name urself "I GAS JEWS" or spam it. what you do is wrong.[/QUOTE]

I never named myself "I GAS JEWS". If you need to lie to prove your point, maybe you don't have much of a point to begin with?

Originally Posted by theoneceko

bro idc if u name urself "I GAS JEWS" or spam it. what you do is wrong.

I never named myself "I GAS JEWS". If you need to lie to prove your point, maybe you don't have much of a point to begin with?

[QUOTE=Voss;932005]The [I]classic[/I] slippery slope. We should ban people for using the word "stupid" and "dumb" too, right? Or maybe even when someone votes a staff member? YIKES.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Its like how FB and Twitter banned Trump. Next Twitter removed the President of Nigeria's post. Months back they were banning accounts as fake news for talking about the possibility of Corona being created in a lab, and now we are learning that just might be true. When you stifle free speech its always a slipper slope.

Originally Posted by Voss

The classic slippery slope. We should ban people for using the word "stupid" and "dumb" too, right? Or maybe even when someone votes a staff member? YIKES.

Exactly. Its like how FB and Twitter banned Trump. Next Twitter removed the President of Nigeria's post. Months back they were banning accounts as fake news for talking about the possibility of Corona being created in a lab, and now we are learning that just might be true. When you stifle free speech its always a slipper slope.

[QUOTE=Unknown1234;932000]Out of curiosity, what makes you think people aren’t being banned for this?[/QUOTE]

Because I checked a couple months worth of punished player reports and did not see it listed. The only people punished for speech have been me for naming myself "money-grubbing jew" and saying the K word once, and a few people who have spammed the N word.

Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Out of curiosity, what makes you think people aren’t being banned for this?

Because I checked a couple months worth of punished player reports and did not see it listed. The only people punished for speech have been me for naming myself "money-grubbing jew" and saying the K word once, and a few people who have spammed the N word.

[QUOTE=Unknown1234;931998]Do you feel this is an essential part of playing mafia for you, to the point where you wouldn’t want to play without it?

I would prefer the whole “I’m arguing this out of principle” part gets skipped.[/QUOTE]

I'm against censorship wherever it pops up and I voice my opinions on it, especially when it directly affects me.. and if I'm being honest, this game has lost a lot of its appeal when there are people policing every word that is being said. I have over 3000 games played and what keeps me coming back is the ability to choose my own strategy. That's no longer the case.

Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Do you feel this is an essential part of playing mafia for you, to the point where you wouldn’t want to play without it?

I would prefer the whole “I’m arguing this out of principle” part gets skipped.

I'm against censorship wherever it pops up and I voice my opinions on it, especially when it directly affects me.. and if I'm being honest, this game has lost a lot of its appeal when there are people policing every word that is being said. I have over 3000 games played and what keeps me coming back is the ability to choose my own strategy. That's no longer the case.

So let me ask you this. Are you going to start banning people for using the words "Faggot" and "Retard", which are also offensive? Or don't those groups deserve the protection of the PC police?

So let me ask you this. Are you going to start banning people for using the words "Faggot" and "Retard", which are also offensive? Or don't those groups deserve the protection of the PC police?

[QUOTE=theoneceko;931970][COLOR="#00FF00"]by spamming what you spam, you're forcing your own worldview, which is that saying "gas all jews" is acceptable, on other people.

"force" is a strong word here. mods aren't forcing you what to believe by warning you. you're not forcing me to think anti-semitism is okay by spamming "gas all jews." for that reason, i think "influence" is a better word.
[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#00FFFF"]i understand the appeal of social ignorance and that what u say in a video game has VERY VERY little impact, but it's just not cool to say things like that. mods don't warn you bc they've something personal against you. they just saw a lot of reports on racism (a group of people have spoken, even if you don't agree with them) and decided to simply file the reports.[/COLOR]

personally, i don't understand why ppl have to say the n-word or other things to troll. [B][SIZE=6][COLOR="#FFF0F5"]UWOWU HEWWO!!![/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] is a much better alternative. i don't think every conservative is evil, but the current trend towards eliminating racism in this game and real world isn't bad.[/QUOTE]

I never spam, so get your facts straight before you just start spouting off nonsense. The only time I spam is when I am spamming my LW because town isn't listening...

If you read the report you'd know, so why don't you visit that post and educate yourself.

Originally Posted by theoneceko

by spamming what you spam, you're forcing your own worldview, which is that saying "gas all jews" is acceptable, on other people.

"force" is a strong word here. mods aren't forcing you what to believe by warning you. you're not forcing me to think anti-semitism is okay by spamming "gas all jews." for that reason, i think "influence" is a better word.


i understand the appeal of social ignorance and that what u say in a video game has VERY VERY little impact, but it's just not cool to say things like that. mods don't warn you bc they've something personal against you. they just saw a lot of reports on racism (a group of people have spoken, even if you don't agree with them) and decided to simply file the reports.

personally, i don't understand why ppl have to say the n-word or other things to troll. UWOWU HEWWO!!! is a much better alternative. i don't think every conservative is evil, but the current trend towards eliminating racism in this game and real world isn't bad.

I never spam, so get your facts straight before you just start spouting off nonsense. The only time I spam is when I am spamming my LW because town isn't listening...

If you read the report you'd know, so why don't you visit that post and educate yourself.

[QUOTE=Helz;931956]I kinda feel like you are just saying this to close out a bunch of conversations you started but do not want to continue but its ok.[/QUOTE]

Did you want to argue all night about it? I mean, I have my position and you have yours and its clear neither of us intend to change. So what would be the point?

Originally Posted by Helz

I kinda feel like you are just saying this to close out a bunch of conversations you started but do not want to continue but its ok.

Did you want to argue all night about it? I mean, I have my position and you have yours and its clear neither of us intend to change. So what would be the point?

[QUOTE=Helz;931949]All I can say here is you do you. I personally do not believe any social function of scale can exist without some level of moderation. If you want to simultaneously crack Jew jokes and call the people fighting against them Nazis its a bit....

(You finish this statement and understand what I am thinking behind my keyboard)[/QUOTE]

Half of it is cracking jokes, but it comes from recent world events. I happen to believe that Israelis are modern day Nazis for what they are doing in Gaza and the West Bank and I wont be bullied by the PC police into staying silent.

Originally Posted by Helz

All I can say here is you do you. I personally do not believe any social function of scale can exist without some level of moderation. If you want to simultaneously crack Jew jokes and call the people fighting against them Nazis its a bit....

(You finish this statement and understand what I am thinking behind my keyboard)

Half of it is cracking jokes, but it comes from recent world events. I happen to believe that Israelis are modern day Nazis for what they are doing in Gaza and the West Bank and I wont be bullied by the PC police into staying silent.

[QUOTE=Helz;931946]While I do agree with you that a heavy amount of the 'kid gloves' mentality in our society is bad social structures depend on establishing norms and there is little more in this life that matters more than words simply because they convey ideas, beliefs, and loyalty's. You can say 'sticks and stones' but if your mother and father said they hated you and you only live because your abortion failed as a child it probably would have hurt you.[/QUOTE]

If you let complete stranger's words on the internet have as much power over you as your mother's then you've got bigger problems than can be addressed by censorship.

[QUOTE=Helz;931946]I bet if I spoke words of desire to rape, torture, and murder your family while I lived next door you would probably take issue and demand some level of protection because those words were threatening to you and the lives of those you cared about. If you accept such spoken words would be threatening to you how can you dissociate such direct threats and the reaction they generate (followed by the protection they are given by a community) from the indirect implications that are given with racism to individuals who's families have experienced literal genocide? Sure, The threat provided would be more substantial but the personal experience that it would be executed would be much less justified.[/QUOTE]

Are you really comparing the words of an anonymous person online who has no idea who you are and where you live with someone who lives right next door to you? Not all things are equal. A complete stranger talking crap online is not the same as your next door neighbor threatening to kill your family. No rational person would think they are either.

[QUOTE=Helz;931946]Would you feel protected by being able to 'mute' someone you felt threatened you and your loved ones? Would you be ok with someone say.. Reveling your personal address right now as you speak and declaring a racist lived at that location to a large group of people? Those are just words after all.[/QUOTE]

What you've described is doxing, which is a crime and not protected speech... and I don't need to be "protected" from speech. If someone feels the need to tell me they want to kill me and my family, I have to admit I laugh. Empty threats from someone who I've triggered make me laugh.. but yes, I have muted people before for spamming me. That's just annoying.

[QUOTE=Helz;931946]Also, we are talking about your personal beliefs here. If you hear the greater community takes issue with such behavior would you be willing to change your behavior to conform to social norms instead of blaming the enforcing power structure of a community?[/QUOTE]

I'm gonna say what I want when I want. The only reason I play this game instead of Town of Salem is because it isn't policed by Nazis.. or at least it wasn't, before. If it gets to the point where I am getting banned for my speech then I might as well play a game that doesn't take 20 minutes to get started. Hell, I've already paid for Town of Salem so I might as well play it.

Originally Posted by Helz

While I do agree with you that a heavy amount of the 'kid gloves' mentality in our society is bad social structures depend on establishing norms and there is little more in this life that matters more than words simply because they convey ideas, beliefs, and loyalty's. You can say 'sticks and stones' but if your mother and father said they hated you and you only live because your abortion failed as a child it probably would have hurt you.

If you let complete stranger's words on the internet have as much power over you as your mother's then you've got bigger problems than can be addressed by censorship.

Originally Posted by Helz

I bet if I spoke words of desire to rape, torture, and murder your family while I lived next door you would probably take issue and demand some level of protection because those words were threatening to you and the lives of those you cared about. If you accept such spoken words would be threatening to you how can you dissociate such direct threats and the reaction they generate (followed by the protection they are given by a community) from the indirect implications that are given with racism to individuals who's families have experienced literal genocide? Sure, The threat provided would be more substantial but the personal experience that it would be executed would be much less justified.

Are you really comparing the words of an anonymous person online who has no idea who you are and where you live with someone who lives right next door to you? Not all things are equal. A complete stranger talking crap online is not the same as your next door neighbor threatening to kill your family. No rational person would think they are either.

Originally Posted by Helz

Would you feel protected by being able to 'mute' someone you felt threatened you and your loved ones? Would you be ok with someone say.. Reveling your personal address right now as you speak and declaring a racist lived at that location to a large group of people? Those are just words after all.

What you've described is doxing, which is a crime and not protected speech... and I don't need to be "protected" from speech. If someone feels the need to tell me they want to kill me and my family, I have to admit I laugh. Empty threats from someone who I've triggered make me laugh.. but yes, I have muted people before for spamming me. That's just annoying.

Originally Posted by Helz

Also, we are talking about your personal beliefs here. If you hear the greater community takes issue with such behavior would you be willing to change your behavior to conform to social norms instead of blaming the enforcing power structure of a community?

I'm gonna say what I want when I want. The only reason I play this game instead of Town of Salem is because it isn't policed by Nazis.. or at least it wasn't, before. If it gets to the point where I am getting banned for my speech then I might as well play a game that doesn't take 20 minutes to get started. Hell, I've already paid for Town of Salem so I might as well play it.

[QUOTE=aamirus;931945]Cute was banned nearly a whole year ago, and I’ve played thousands of games too. Do you have a point of some kind?[/QUOTE]

And the fact that he was banned nearly a year ago is supposed to mean something? Or is supposed to have any relevance to what I said? If you need it broken down for you to understand better, my point is that you flip flopped on the issue.

Also, if you played often you'd know how long the wait times are to get a game started. If you use the same name in game as you do on here, I haven't seen you in an arcade game in a long time.

Originally Posted by aamirus

Cute was banned nearly a whole year ago, and I’ve played thousands of games too. Do you have a point of some kind?

And the fact that he was banned nearly a year ago is supposed to mean something? Or is supposed to have any relevance to what I said? If you need it broken down for you to understand better, my point is that you flip flopped on the issue.

Also, if you played often you'd know how long the wait times are to get a game started. If you use the same name in game as you do on here, I haven't seen you in an arcade game in a long time.

[QUOTE=aamirus;931941]Secondly, would blizzard mute and or ban your account for your ‘free speech’? Since we know the answer is yes, half your argument is obviously moot and the assumption is you think sc2mafia should ignore that because it’s in desperate need of players.[/QUOTE]

Funny. I recall not too long ago, someone complaining about Cute's racism and I believe it was you who said that it wasn't the mod's job to censor and that it was Blizzard's job.. and now you're saying the exact opposite. What changed?

[QUOTE=aamirus;931941]
1) since these punishments started, activity in the mod has notably increased [/QUOTE]

I play this game all the time and I don't see that... which is why I asked if any of you admins play arcade. It takes forever for games to get started, even on weekends.

[QUOTE=aamirus;931941]2) again the goal of moderation is rehabilitation. Hence a WL. 90% of people are going to get the message and just adjust their behavior. Of those who refuse, then the punishment is naturally going to escalate but even then there would still be temporary ban lists before anything is permanent. Even people who keep offending to the point of a permaban are usually given an appeal if they seem to genuinely want to cooperate.

So I don’t really buy the argument of this reducing the playerbase or making it harder to fill games. Is it really that hard to ask not to spam about “money-grubbing jews” which is clearly not a political statement but a racist one?[/QUOTE]

You wouldn't because you hardly play. We've played 50 games together, but I've been playing this for years and have thousands of games played. I am telling you that games take forever to get started. I often have to wait 15, 20 minutes. Take the feedback or ignore it and call me a liar.

[QUOTE=aamirus;931941]
Edit: and when you choose the name before roles are even decided, I don’t think it can be claimed that it’s just for vet bait either…[/QUOTE]

I prefer Veteran. Its one of the 4 roles I prefer regularly... along with Jester and Executioner --- both roles that might require me to get lynched. Having a name like Money Grubbing Jew helps with that.

Originally Posted by aamirus

Secondly, would blizzard mute and or ban your account for your ‘free speech’? Since we know the answer is yes, half your argument is obviously moot and the assumption is you think sc2mafia should ignore that because it’s in desperate need of players.

Funny. I recall not too long ago, someone complaining about Cute's racism and I believe it was you who said that it wasn't the mod's job to censor and that it was Blizzard's job.. and now you're saying the exact opposite. What changed?

Originally Posted by aamirus

1) since these punishments started, activity in the mod has notably increased

I play this game all the time and I don't see that... which is why I asked if any of you admins play arcade. It takes forever for games to get started, even on weekends.

Originally Posted by aamirus

2) again the goal of moderation is rehabilitation. Hence a WL. 90% of people are going to get the message and just adjust their behavior. Of those who refuse, then the punishment is naturally going to escalate but even then there would still be temporary ban lists before anything is permanent. Even people who keep offending to the point of a permaban are usually given an appeal if they seem to genuinely want to cooperate.

So I don’t really buy the argument of this reducing the playerbase or making it harder to fill games. Is it really that hard to ask not to spam about “money-grubbing jews” which is clearly not a political statement but a racist one?

You wouldn't because you hardly play. We've played 50 games together, but I've been playing this for years and have thousands of games played. I am telling you that games take forever to get started. I often have to wait 15, 20 minutes. Take the feedback or ignore it and call me a liar.

Originally Posted by aamirus

Edit: and when you choose the name before roles are even decided, I don’t think it can be claimed that it’s just for vet bait either…

I prefer Veteran. Its one of the 4 roles I prefer regularly... along with Jester and Executioner --- both roles that might require me to get lynched. Having a name like Money Grubbing Jew helps with that.

[QUOTE=Helz;931939]But you still have not declared your moral line. It sounds like you are agreeing with me that morality, community management and legality are not things on equal terms and that subjective morality should determine the limitations on free speech that a community sets on itself. So unless I have not read you correctly where are yours? Where do you feel its appropriate for us to draw the line on contentious subjects to protect free speech while also protecting the community?[/QUOTE]

Let me put it this way, I think anti-cyberbullying laws are unconstitutional. People should be allowed to say whatever they want online, no matter how offensive. It is up to us, as individuals, to filter out what we don't want to hear. This game has a -mute feature that I use myself when someone is spamming... but I never use for stuff like racism because who cares? Seriously. They are just words. My parents told me not to let words hurt me when I was a toddler. More people should take that approach these days instead of reporting everything someone says that hurts their feelings.

Also that last line about protecting the community I disagree with. I think censorship hurts the community, not protects it.

Originally Posted by Helz

But you still have not declared your moral line. It sounds like you are agreeing with me that morality, community management and legality are not things on equal terms and that subjective morality should determine the limitations on free speech that a community sets on itself. So unless I have not read you correctly where are yours? Where do you feel its appropriate for us to draw the line on contentious subjects to protect free speech while also protecting the community?

Let me put it this way, I think anti-cyberbullying laws are unconstitutional. People should be allowed to say whatever they want online, no matter how offensive. It is up to us, as individuals, to filter out what we don't want to hear. This game has a -mute feature that I use myself when someone is spamming... but I never use for stuff like racism because who cares? Seriously. They are just words. My parents told me not to let words hurt me when I was a toddler. More people should take that approach these days instead of reporting everything someone says that hurts their feelings.

Also that last line about protecting the community I disagree with. I think censorship hurts the community, not protects it.

[QUOTE=Helz;931937]Actually Speech about Profanity, Racism, Sexism, Pedophilia, Genocide, and Rape are not illegal.

And if we are going to establish legality for the guide line for whats ok in social interactions it would be totally fine for me to say.. befriend you then bang your wife. Or maybe gain your trust financially then get you to give you all your money. These are the founding ethics a good community should be built on in your opinion?[/QUOTE]

What kind of social interactions are acceptable varies between social circles. One should always choose one's friends wisely. We shouldn't be looking for big tech and its moderators to tell us what is ethical and how we should be behaving.

I am reminded of all those YouTube/Twitter accounts that were banned for spreading misinformation about Covid, only to find out months later that they were right.

Free Speech is the most important thing we have. It supersedes what you think is ethical or moral, or socially acceptable.

Originally Posted by Helz

Actually Speech about Profanity, Racism, Sexism, Pedophilia, Genocide, and Rape are not illegal.

And if we are going to establish legality for the guide line for whats ok in social interactions it would be totally fine for me to say.. befriend you then bang your wife. Or maybe gain your trust financially then get you to give you all your money. These are the founding ethics a good community should be built on in your opinion?

What kind of social interactions are acceptable varies between social circles. One should always choose one's friends wisely. We shouldn't be looking for big tech and its moderators to tell us what is ethical and how we should be behaving.

I am reminded of all those YouTube/Twitter accounts that were banned for spreading misinformation about Covid, only to find out months later that they were right.

Free Speech is the most important thing we have. It supersedes what you think is ethical or moral, or socially acceptable.

[QUOTE=Helz;931934]Just curious

Do you think there is no problem in expressing profanity? How about Racism? How about Sexism? How about Pedophilia? How about genocide? How about Rape? How about sharing how to kill people? How about saying things to instigate panic to hurt large groups of people? How about assonating a president? How about building bombs? How about how to wage biological warfare? How about creating nuclear weapons?

Where should the line of free speech be drawn? [/QUOTE]

Free speech should be drawn at the law. Profanity, Racism, Sexism, is not illegal. Pedophilia, Genocide, and Rape are illegal.

I don't look to internet chat spaces or video games to teach me what I should or shouldn't say. If you want a sterilized gaming experience that is disconnected from real life, then maybe don't play with other people? Or at the very least, don't play a multi player game that relies on communication. Or do, and simply mute the person who is saying naughty words you don't like. It's that simple!

Originally Posted by Helz

Just curious

Do you think there is no problem in expressing profanity? How about Racism? How about Sexism? How about Pedophilia? How about genocide? How about Rape? How about sharing how to kill people? How about saying things to instigate panic to hurt large groups of people? How about assonating a president? How about building bombs? How about how to wage biological warfare? How about creating nuclear weapons?

Where should the line of free speech be drawn?

Free speech should be drawn at the law. Profanity, Racism, Sexism, is not illegal. Pedophilia, Genocide, and Rape are illegal.

I don't look to internet chat spaces or video games to teach me what I should or shouldn't say. If you want a sterilized gaming experience that is disconnected from real life, then maybe don't play with other people? Or at the very least, don't play a multi player game that relies on communication. Or do, and simply mute the person who is saying naughty words you don't like. It's that simple!

[QUOTE=Helz;931931]For my personal opinion its a social game. Speech is just about all there is. I think its less about banning people for saying things you do not agree with and more about creating an inclusive environment community. There are many controversial views in this world and there are places where its appropriate to discuss them. Maybe you should chill on your anti-Semitism or political nonsense in a video game and instead embrace enjoying the game with other people.

If you are not playing to bond with other people and enjoy a mutually pleasurable experience you may have picked the wrong game.[/QUOTE]

You're right, speech is all we have. Telling people what they can't say is not being inclusive, its forcing your own world view on them. If someone doesn't like what I say, that's there is a -mute feature.

And how I enjoy my games is my own business. I don't play this to "bond" with anyone. I have real friends for that. I play this game to deceive people and win, which is the entire point of the game.

Originally Posted by Helz

For my personal opinion its a social game. Speech is just about all there is. I think its less about banning people for saying things you do not agree with and more about creating an inclusive environment community. There are many controversial views in this world and there are places where its appropriate to discuss them. Maybe you should chill on your anti-Semitism or political nonsense in a video game and instead embrace enjoying the game with other people.

If you are not playing to bond with other people and enjoy a mutually pleasurable experience you may have picked the wrong game.

You're right, speech is all we have. Telling people what they can't say is not being inclusive, its forcing your own world view on them. If someone doesn't like what I say, that's there is a -mute feature.

And how I enjoy my games is my own business. I don't play this to "bond" with anyone. I have real friends for that. I play this game to deceive people and win, which is the entire point of the game.

[QUOTE=aamirus;931930]You don’t appear to have been banned. A main goal of moderation is rehabilitation, not removing people Willy nilly.[/QUOTE]

No, I'm not banned. I logged in today to find out I was warned for racism. So I got on to forums to see what it was all about, and after I submitted my appeal I decided to see all the recent bannings and noticed a couple of people were banned for racism. So I thought I'd give my view about what I think of censorship.

Originally Posted by aamirus

You don’t appear to have been banned. A main goal of moderation is rehabilitation, not removing people Willy nilly.

No, I'm not banned. I logged in today to find out I was warned for racism. So I got on to forums to see what it was all about, and after I submitted my appeal I decided to see all the recent bannings and noticed a couple of people were banned for racism. So I thought I'd give my view about what I think of censorship.

So knowing how hard it is to get a game started most days, why are you banning people for speech? I don't get that. Why have a mute function if you are just going to ban people for saying stuff you don't like?

So knowing how hard it is to get a game started most days, why are you banning people for speech? I don't get that. Why have a mute function if you are just going to ban people for saying stuff you don't like?

I was warned for racism because my name was "money grubbing jew" and I said "kike". Others are being banned for racism too. So I ask the question, do admin actually play Arcade? I don't mean every once in a while.. but do they actually play? It takes FOREVER to get a game started. This arcade game is pretty much dead and relies heavily on regulars to get games going... and so you think its a good idea to thin the already barebones community because people say words you don't like? Doesn't seem too smart. Maybe admins should actually play the game sometimes and see how hard it is to get a game started, then maybe you would think twice before banning people for saying naughty words.

MrMostache knows, I see him in lobbies often, waiting patiently with the rest of us, sometimes up to 30 minutes... but the rest of the admins in here, I'm not too sure about.

I was warned for racism because my name was "money grubbing jew" and I said "kike". Others are being banned for racism too. So I ask the question, do admin actually play Arcade? I don't mean every once in a while.. but do they actually play? It takes FOREVER to get a game started. This arcade game is pretty much dead and relies heavily on regulars to get games going... and so you think its a good idea to thin the already barebones community because people say words you don't like? Doesn't seem too smart. Maybe admins should actually play the game sometimes and see how hard it is to get a game started, then maybe you would think twice before banning people for saying naughty words.

MrMostache knows, I see him in lobbies often, waiting patiently with the rest of us, sometimes up to 30 minutes... but the rest of the admins in here, I'm not too sure about.