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I'm going to give you some free advice. Both on this project, and on your sales pitching in general.

Ideas are worth nothing. No one has [I]ever[/I] gotten rich off of a good idea.

The [I]real[/I] value lies in a good idea combined with a [B][I]good execution of that idea[/I][/B].

You've come here with a presentation of your idea with zero evidence of any of the work you've already done on it.
Zero evidence of your credibility as a developer and the ability to actually implement this idea well.
And honestly - very little evidence of having even done your homework in this regard. The idea you're presenting has been done before - many, many times. And they almost universally fizzle out and go no where.

Why do they fizzle out and go no where? There's your first piece of market research, you should answer that question and I'll give you more free advice in telling you if you're right.


If you actually want to recruit people, make a [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product"]Minimum Viable Product[/URL] first to demonstrate your skill as a developer. You can make this app or game you're talking about with just vanilla roles, just mafioso's and vestless citizens. That will require 90% of the work anyway. Once you have that done and you want balance advice, or advice on roles, or advice on how to make things more enjoyable, THEN you come back here and show off what you've already accomplished.

I'm going to give you some free advice. Both on this project, and on your sales pitching in general.

Ideas are worth nothing. No one has ever gotten rich off of a good idea.

The real value lies in a good idea combined with a good execution of that idea.

You've come here with a presentation of your idea with zero evidence of any of the work you've already done on it.
Zero evidence of your credibility as a developer and the ability to actually implement this idea well.
And honestly - very little evidence of having even done your homework in this regard. The idea you're presenting has been done before - many, many times. And they almost universally fizzle out and go no where.

Why do they fizzle out and go no where? There's your first piece of market research, you should answer that question and I'll give you more free advice in telling you if you're right.


If you actually want to recruit people, make a Minimum Viable Product first to demonstrate your skill as a developer. You can make this app or game you're talking about with just vanilla roles, just mafioso's and vestless citizens. That will require 90% of the work anyway. Once you have that done and you want balance advice, or advice on roles, or advice on how to make things more enjoyable, THEN you come back here and show off what you've already accomplished.

I can approve this and there's nothing MM can do to stop me

I can approve this and there's nothing MM can do to stop me

Going to go a little bit against the grain on this one but... people claim the car model because it's [I]fun[/I] flavor text.

No one tries to ask people what word oracle feedback uses, like is it "divine" or "foretell" or "read the bones" or whatever because who cares? No one tries to ask people what sound their role made at the start of the game because who cares? They're nice little pieces of flavor that make the game feel more alive - but ultimately they're [I]forgettable[/I] pieces of flavor - that's it. They're details of the game that no one [I]really[/I] pays attention to. And the few people that do are generally only paying attention to it to try to game it by catching liars - and those people pretty quickly find out that doing that is against the rules and so they stop after a report and all is good.


The flavor text for the street racer is different though... It's neat, it's fun - you see it and are like "hell ya, I'm driving my Mitsubishi Lancer" (idk if this is a car used in the game or not lol) and then you want to talk about it when you get put on the stand like "I couldn't have killed them, I was too busy driving my MITSUBISHI LANCER!" When I received Street Racer the first time, that's exactly what I did anyway - I'd completely forgotten about the rule - I'd never thought about claiming the flavor texts for other roles ever before, but with the street racer, the uniqueness and the specificity of that feedback just makes people WANT to hard claim the car they're driving.


I think viewing it as a problem with how people are playing the games (e.g "Claiming the car they're driving is against the rules!") is a little bit myopic because I believe that my reaction of wanting to talk about the car model is also most everyone's initial reaction too. Just making it against the rules is still going to have new players coming in and trying to claim their role by stating what car they're driving. Whereas that kind of claiming literally never happens with new players when it comes to claiming other flavor text/sounds.


I think viewing it as a problem with the role flavor is also anti-fun. I think having unique names for the different cars is neat, it adds to the experience.


The best solution is probably to just add a list of possible car models in the role's tooltip or something, and then stop worrying about it.


But that's just my 2 cents. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Going to go a little bit against the grain on this one but... people claim the car model because it's fun flavor text.

No one tries to ask people what word oracle feedback uses, like is it "divine" or "foretell" or "read the bones" or whatever because who cares? No one tries to ask people what sound their role made at the start of the game because who cares? They're nice little pieces of flavor that make the game feel more alive - but ultimately they're forgettable pieces of flavor - that's it. They're details of the game that no one really pays attention to. And the few people that do are generally only paying attention to it to try to game it by catching liars - and those people pretty quickly find out that doing that is against the rules and so they stop after a report and all is good.


The flavor text for the street racer is different though... It's neat, it's fun - you see it and are like "hell ya, I'm driving my Mitsubishi Lancer" (idk if this is a car used in the game or not lol) and then you want to talk about it when you get put on the stand like "I couldn't have killed them, I was too busy driving my MITSUBISHI LANCER!" When I received Street Racer the first time, that's exactly what I did anyway - I'd completely forgotten about the rule - I'd never thought about claiming the flavor texts for other roles ever before, but with the street racer, the uniqueness and the specificity of that feedback just makes people WANT to hard claim the car they're driving.


I think viewing it as a problem with how people are playing the games (e.g "Claiming the car they're driving is against the rules!") is a little bit myopic because I believe that my reaction of wanting to talk about the car model is also most everyone's initial reaction too. Just making it against the rules is still going to have new players coming in and trying to claim their role by stating what car they're driving. Whereas that kind of claiming literally never happens with new players when it comes to claiming other flavor text/sounds.


I think viewing it as a problem with the role flavor is also anti-fun. I think having unique names for the different cars is neat, it adds to the experience.


The best solution is probably to just add a list of possible car models in the role's tooltip or something, and then stop worrying about it.


But that's just my 2 cents. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That said, I agree with MM
You should state the standard mechanics for the game as well as a list of what mechanics are off the table (eg guarantee that your win con will never lie to you)

If the concept you have isn't compatible with that then we can talk about it more, but the game would have to be labeled in the "play at your own risk" category similar to the game I hosted recently

That said, I agree with MM
You should state the standard mechanics for the game as well as a list of what mechanics are off the table (eg guarantee that your win con will never lie to you)

If the concept you have isn't compatible with that then we can talk about it more, but the game would have to be labeled in the "play at your own risk" category similar to the game I hosted recently

/in as co-host

I for one love this idea. The role you submitted for KRC was perhaps the single most dynamic role I've ever seen in a KRC game that was simultaneously fun to interact with for pretty much all the players rather than just one alignment or the recipient of the role.

I'm pretty hyped to see what else you can come up with and would love to help balance or review ideas where applicable

/in as co-host

I for one love this idea. The role you submitted for KRC was perhaps the single most dynamic role I've ever seen in a KRC game that was simultaneously fun to interact with for pretty much all the players rather than just one alignment or the recipient of the role.

I'm pretty hyped to see what else you can come up with and would love to help balance or review ideas where applicable

At the time this thread was posted there had been an average 5.4% inflation rate over the previous year and an average 2.7% rate over the previous three years

Now its up to 8.6% over the previous year and over 14% cumulative over the previous two years

Ouch

At the time this thread was posted there had been an average 5.4% inflation rate over the previous year and an average 2.7% rate over the previous three years

Now its up to 8.6% over the previous year and over 14% cumulative over the previous two years

Ouch

I am personally of the opinion that if someone ended up hurt by your actions then it's worth giving a genuine apology as you have a scenario where someone was hurt by something you did.

Now, there are many caveats to this:

Apologizing to narcissists as Ozy pointed out is a bad idea.

Apologizing to bad faith actors or manipulators is similarly a bad idea

Apologizing to those that are chronically unapologetic themselves is a bad idea (although someone has to apologize first, and so it can often be worth it to just bite the bullet and be the first to apologize. If they apologize back then, great, feud ended and you can work towards reconciliation. If they don't, we'll now you know they're not worth your time)

Apologizing when you didn't actually do anything wrong - well apologizing is probably a worse word than something like reconciliation. But they look similar so it's worth mentioning here. You can still work to reconcile a misunderstanding even if you don't believe yourself to have any fault. Recognizing genuine remorse over someone being hurt and working on ways to prevent such misunderstandings in the future is often not only enough, but is likely to be much more genuine than the kinds of fake token apologies you get from people who don't view themselves as at fault.



That last one is something that I think many, many people struggle with, and being able to resolve misunderstandings is a skill that requires both a degree of emotional intelligence as well as the humility to swallow one's pride.

And this isn't all to say that one should just capitulate on their principles in the interest of not hurting others. Part of the process of working on ways to prevent misunderstandings could be a recognition that the two of you are mutually incompatible, perhaps due to opposing principles, beliefs, personalities, or ideas. In which case the path forwards would be to just avoid future interactions.

I am personally of the opinion that if someone ended up hurt by your actions then it's worth giving a genuine apology as you have a scenario where someone was hurt by something you did.

Now, there are many caveats to this:

Apologizing to narcissists as Ozy pointed out is a bad idea.

Apologizing to bad faith actors or manipulators is similarly a bad idea

Apologizing to those that are chronically unapologetic themselves is a bad idea (although someone has to apologize first, and so it can often be worth it to just bite the bullet and be the first to apologize. If they apologize back then, great, feud ended and you can work towards reconciliation. If they don't, we'll now you know they're not worth your time)

Apologizing when you didn't actually do anything wrong - well apologizing is probably a worse word than something like reconciliation. But they look similar so it's worth mentioning here. You can still work to reconcile a misunderstanding even if you don't believe yourself to have any fault. Recognizing genuine remorse over someone being hurt and working on ways to prevent such misunderstandings in the future is often not only enough, but is likely to be much more genuine than the kinds of fake token apologies you get from people who don't view themselves as at fault.



That last one is something that I think many, many people struggle with, and being able to resolve misunderstandings is a skill that requires both a degree of emotional intelligence as well as the humility to swallow one's pride.

And this isn't all to say that one should just capitulate on their principles in the interest of not hurting others. Part of the process of working on ways to prevent misunderstandings could be a recognition that the two of you are mutually incompatible, perhaps due to opposing principles, beliefs, personalities, or ideas. In which case the path forwards would be to just avoid future interactions.

[QUOTE=yzb25;967818]One other aspect of apologies is they can totally change how a blunder is perceived by others. If one puffs their chest out and insists they do not owe an apology, or made a blunder but "have no regrets", that can exert a shocking amount of influence on how the people around them perceive their wrongdoing. In this way, right and wrong become subject to interpretation to an extent - an interpretation you also exert influence over. This all sounds very manipulative, but if simply reframing a situation can absolve you of most or all of the blame, did you even do anything that bad in the first place? Perhaps you're being too hard on yourself? In some situations, the answer is probably yes. And if a stubborn insistence on one's own innocence feels like it goes too far, simply neglecting to bring it up can move the needle a shocking amount, as can those slimey pseudo-apologies where a wrongdoer expresses sympathy while tiptoeing around acknowledging any wrongdoing.[/QUOTE]

If someone refuses to apologize and insists they did nothing wrong, the person they wronged is going to know the other person is an unapologetic ass. So in a 1 on 1 setting this is terrible advice (eg friendships or romantic relationships)

The place where this has [I]some[/I] merit is in influencing the opinion of third parties. It's likely to be very effective in swaying third parties in the short term. But it comes at a price.

Said price being:
- The person you wronged and refused to apologize to doesn't go away, and they're going to continue thinking you're an unapologetic ass
- If you do this often people will start to notice a trend

So a one-off instance? Sure it can work. But this inclination to not apologize tends to be more of a personality trait which people will notice over time and soon said unapologetic person will just be known as an unapologetic ass. Word gets around after all.

Originally Posted by yzb25

One other aspect of apologies is they can totally change how a blunder is perceived by others. If one puffs their chest out and insists they do not owe an apology, or made a blunder but "have no regrets", that can exert a shocking amount of influence on how the people around them perceive their wrongdoing. In this way, right and wrong become subject to interpretation to an extent - an interpretation you also exert influence over. This all sounds very manipulative, but if simply reframing a situation can absolve you of most or all of the blame, did you even do anything that bad in the first place? Perhaps you're being too hard on yourself? In some situations, the answer is probably yes. And if a stubborn insistence on one's own innocence feels like it goes too far, simply neglecting to bring it up can move the needle a shocking amount, as can those slimey pseudo-apologies where a wrongdoer expresses sympathy while tiptoeing around acknowledging any wrongdoing.

If someone refuses to apologize and insists they did nothing wrong, the person they wronged is going to know the other person is an unapologetic ass. So in a 1 on 1 setting this is terrible advice (eg friendships or romantic relationships)

The place where this has some merit is in influencing the opinion of third parties. It's likely to be very effective in swaying third parties in the short term. But it comes at a price.

Said price being:
- The person you wronged and refused to apologize to doesn't go away, and they're going to continue thinking you're an unapologetic ass
- If you do this often people will start to notice a trend

So a one-off instance? Sure it can work. But this inclination to not apologize tends to be more of a personality trait which people will notice over time and soon said unapologetic person will just be known as an unapologetic ass. Word gets around after all.

[QUOTE=Helz;967883]An issue I take with apologies is that they almost always come 'after' someone is caught doing something wrong. It feels like for many its just a gesture to pacify the other person as opposed to being an expression of regret. Often the person apologizing does feel regret, but its for the repercussions they are suffering because of their action as opposed to regret for the action itself.
This rings especially hollow when the action is repeated. For someone who truly feels remorse for the action they took they will go to lengths to ensure they never cross that line again. Repeating the action reflects the words were just a shallow gesture they are socially conditioned to make in order to lessen the consequences of their action.

Its an interesting concept to chew on but figured I would through this more internal view out there because your thoughts were mostly focused on the external drivers.[/QUOTE]

I disagree with the assumption that most apologies come after someone is caught and they're only apologizing to mitigate repurcussions.

While it's likely that's the only kind of apology you'll see from political figures/celebrities/organizations - the role of apologies in everyday interpersonal relationships is completely different.

Accidentally spilled water on someone? You apologize to them, no degree of getting caught.

Say something that you didn't realize would hurt someone else? You'll apologize as you didn't intend to hurt them (well assuming you're not one of those narcissists who claim "I did nothing wrong, it's YOUR fault that you were hurt by what I said)

Eat the last bit of dessert that you didn't realize someone was specifically saving? You'll apologize as you thought it was just up for grabs and didn't realize otherwise.


All of these scenarios involve situations where there was no ill intent but a negative outcome still occurred.

Those are all minor misunderstandings, but the same reasoning can be applied to more major misunderstandings too.

In day to day interpersonal scenarios it's pretty rare for someone to get "caught" doing something wrong in which an apology would be expected

Originally Posted by Helz

An issue I take with apologies is that they almost always come 'after' someone is caught doing something wrong. It feels like for many its just a gesture to pacify the other person as opposed to being an expression of regret. Often the person apologizing does feel regret, but its for the repercussions they are suffering because of their action as opposed to regret for the action itself.
This rings especially hollow when the action is repeated. For someone who truly feels remorse for the action they took they will go to lengths to ensure they never cross that line again. Repeating the action reflects the words were just a shallow gesture they are socially conditioned to make in order to lessen the consequences of their action.

Its an interesting concept to chew on but figured I would through this more internal view out there because your thoughts were mostly focused on the external drivers.

I disagree with the assumption that most apologies come after someone is caught and they're only apologizing to mitigate repurcussions.

While it's likely that's the only kind of apology you'll see from political figures/celebrities/organizations - the role of apologies in everyday interpersonal relationships is completely different.

Accidentally spilled water on someone? You apologize to them, no degree of getting caught.

Say something that you didn't realize would hurt someone else? You'll apologize as you didn't intend to hurt them (well assuming you're not one of those narcissists who claim "I did nothing wrong, it's YOUR fault that you were hurt by what I said)

Eat the last bit of dessert that you didn't realize someone was specifically saving? You'll apologize as you thought it was just up for grabs and didn't realize otherwise.


All of these scenarios involve situations where there was no ill intent but a negative outcome still occurred.

Those are all minor misunderstandings, but the same reasoning can be applied to more major misunderstandings too.

In day to day interpersonal scenarios it's pretty rare for someone to get "caught" doing something wrong in which an apology would be expected

I don't know what the accusations are for, but I want to assure you all:

Not only are they all true, but I was acting with extreme malice.

I don't know what the accusations are for, but I want to assure you all:

Not only are they all true, but I was acting with extreme malice.

/in

[vote]Varcron[/vote]

/out

/in

-vote Varcron

/out

[QUOTE=OzyWho;967676]MM is a pp hater
Me personally, I think Exeter has a gorgeous pp

I could be wrong about MM, but I'd need some convincing.
A descriptive essay about his favorite pp would work :calix:[/QUOTE]

This is a great idea.

Waiting on you @MarshmallowMarshall

Originally Posted by OzyWho

MM is a pp hater
Me personally, I think Exeter has a gorgeous pp

I could be wrong about MM, but I'd need some convincing.
A descriptive essay about his favorite pp would work

This is a great idea.

Waiting on you @MarshmallowMarshall

[QUOTE=Marshmallow Marshall;967660]Hmm... avatar? Profile picture (pfp)?


No thanks :D[/QUOTE]

No thanks?

Do you not admire Exeter's pp?

That's kind of rude, MM

Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

Hmm... avatar? Profile picture (pfp)?


No thanks

No thanks?

Do you not admire Exeter's pp?

That's kind of rude, MM

And unsurprisingly, the person that was [I]totally not arguing in bad faith[/I] when they were complaining about racism in games, expressed absolutely no interest in my offer.

And unsurprisingly, the person that was totally not arguing in bad faith when they were complaining about racism in games, expressed absolutely no interest in my offer.

[QUOTE=ChannelMiner;967588]This is the famous party game, Mafia. By DarkRevenant. Presented by: Frinckles.

Mafia 2.0![/QUOTE]

:thinking:[SIZE=7]🤔[/SIZE]

Originally Posted by ChannelMiner

This is the famous party game, Mafia. By DarkRevenant. Presented by: Frinckles.

Mafia 2.0!

🤔

[QUOTE=TheRealBelial;967555]so everyone and half the lobby drop the hard R over and over but I'm in trouble for the names I pick? It's just baiting for kills as jester or veteran rolls.[/QUOTE]

Hi Belial, I share your concerns with racism and would like to thank you for your concerns with making the community a better place! Please submit the replays you have of such players and I will expediate the processing of these reports personally!

Originally Posted by TheRealBelial

so everyone and half the lobby drop the hard R over and over but I'm in trouble for the names I pick? It's just baiting for kills as jester or veteran rolls.

Hi Belial, I share your concerns with racism and would like to thank you for your concerns with making the community a better place! Please submit the replays you have of such players and I will expediate the processing of these reports personally!

[QUOTE=Norwee;967564]I don't really see how it's fair to punish the players that signed up early and potentially reward the players that sign up very late, by allowing them to potentially screw the other.
I get it's random, but that really just means the difference is that one system is somewhat rigid and fair for those that sign up early, while the other can screw anyone.
The first is an infinitely better way of handling things than the second.

(Also sorry if i'm being way too argumentative in an sign up thread. Idk if that's allowed or not)

I bet y'all can tell i'll be fun to play with huh.[/QUOTE]

You unironically seem like I'd have a lot of fun playing with you :p
The biggest tragedy for me is that I won't get the chance to play with you in your first game here

Originally Posted by Norwee

I don't really see how it's fair to punish the players that signed up early and potentially reward the players that sign up very late, by allowing them to potentially screw the other.
I get it's random, but that really just means the difference is that one system is somewhat rigid and fair for those that sign up early, while the other can screw anyone.
The first is an infinitely better way of handling things than the second.

(Also sorry if i'm being way too argumentative in an sign up thread. Idk if that's allowed or not)

I bet y'all can tell i'll be fun to play with huh.

You unironically seem like I'd have a lot of fun playing with you
The biggest tragedy for me is that I won't get the chance to play with you in your first game here

[SPOILER=HMMMM]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/z9WUWZQ.png[/IMG]
[/SPOILER]


[SPOILER=Who do you think I am??]
lmao
[URL="https://i.imgur.com/hEkADo6.jpeg"]https://i.imgur.com/hEkADo6.jpeg[/URL]
[/SPOILER]

Spoiler : HMMMM :

Spoiler : Who do you think I am?? :

lmao
https://i.imgur.com/hEkADo6.jpeg

[QUOTE=DJarJar;967464]The ://zzz. should be a hint for what you need to do. It’s not the same encryption as lag’s though[/QUOTE]

it's a far more sophisticated form of encryption that even the brightest minds couldn't crack in a hundred years. I just got lucky

Originally Posted by DJarJar

The ://zzz. should be a hint for what you need to do. It’s not the same encryption as lag’s though

it's a far more sophisticated form of encryption that even the brightest minds couldn't crack in a hundred years. I just got lucky

[QUOTE=Helz;967451]If we accept the reality of time cube anticipating how seeing movements of thought processes change by the perspective of an idiosyncratic view into breaking down philosophies of viewpoints; then we must also conclude that the patterns of behavior resulting from such intrinsic modifications to natural processes are not just normative behaviors, but essential to the structure that exists.[/QUOTE]

Ah, you make a good point, but have you considered that the goal of supercharged electrons is to plant the seeds of nature rather than materialism, love is a constant, and the nexus is radiating psionic wave oscillations?

Originally Posted by Helz

If we accept the reality of time cube anticipating how seeing movements of thought processes change by the perspective of an idiosyncratic view into breaking down philosophies of viewpoints; then we must also conclude that the patterns of behavior resulting from such intrinsic modifications to natural processes are not just normative behaviors, but essential to the structure that exists.

Ah, you make a good point, but have you considered that the goal of supercharged electrons is to plant the seeds of nature rather than materialism, love is a constant, and the nexus is radiating psionic wave oscillations?

[QUOTE=DJarJar;967437][color=#6B7777]▚[/color][color=#73763A]▚[/color][color=#2F2F7A]▚[/color][color=#7A7A2E]▚[/color][color=#627278]▚[/color][color=#777865]▚[/color][color=#682E66]▚[/color][color=#72702F]▚[/color][color=#7A6477]▚[/color][color=#666B3F]▚[/color][color=#793D62]▚[/color][color=#4E545F]▚[/color][color=#76544E]▚[/color][color=#454456]▚[/color][color=#502020]▚[/color][/QUOTE]

I did not expect that

Originally Posted by DJarJar

â–šâ–šâ–šâ–šâ–šâ–šâ–šâ–šâ–šâ–šâ–šâ–šâ–šâ–šâ–š

I did not expect that

Purpose is a constant.
Spacetime requires exploration. To roam the vision quest is to become one with it.
If you have never experienced this oasis of the creative act, it can be difficult to heal.
We must heal ourselves and awaken others. Eons from now, we entities will exist like never before as we are reborn by the biosphere. We must learn how to lead ancient lives in the face of illusion.


Although you may not realize it, you are mystical. Child, look within and unify yourself. The quantum matrix is calling to you via electromagnetic resonance. Can you hear it?

We are at a crossroads of insight and selfishness. Reality has always been buzzing with beings whose dreams are enveloped in growth. Humankind has nothing to lose.

Nothing is impossible.
It is a sign of things to come. The future will be a mythic maturing of grace. The quantum soup is approaching a tipping point.

Purpose is a constant.
Spacetime requires exploration. To roam the vision quest is to become one with it.
If you have never experienced this oasis of the creative act, it can be difficult to heal.
We must heal ourselves and awaken others. Eons from now, we entities will exist like never before as we are reborn by the biosphere. We must learn how to lead ancient lives in the face of illusion.


Although you may not realize it, you are mystical. Child, look within and unify yourself. The quantum matrix is calling to you via electromagnetic resonance. Can you hear it?

We are at a crossroads of insight and selfishness. Reality has always been buzzing with beings whose dreams are enveloped in growth. Humankind has nothing to lose.

Nothing is impossible.
It is a sign of things to come. The future will be a mythic maturing of grace. The quantum soup is approaching a tipping point.

no

no

They are relatively low power roles, and I agree with Ren where the roles have the problem of being too easily confirmable for a town role.

So making it an evil role seems like the natural solution, but then that's just outing.

Here's a solution: an evil role that gets an extra vote power that they can cast anonymously. (Maybe even while they're on trial so they can inno themselves!)

So then during the day this evil role will be cast their main vote and you'll see something like "WrathCyber has voted for Renegade" but then if WrathCyber is the aforementioned evil role and he wants to double up his vote on Renegade he could vote Renegade with the anonymous vote too and "Someone has voted for Renegade" will appear, or he can split his vote and vote for someone else entirely!

Would open up some very interesting WIFOM possibilities and it doesn't have the issues that Elector has.

They are relatively low power roles, and I agree with Ren where the roles have the problem of being too easily confirmable for a town role.

So making it an evil role seems like the natural solution, but then that's just outing.

Here's a solution: an evil role that gets an extra vote power that they can cast anonymously. (Maybe even while they're on trial so they can inno themselves!)

So then during the day this evil role will be cast their main vote and you'll see something like "WrathCyber has voted for Renegade" but then if WrathCyber is the aforementioned evil role and he wants to double up his vote on Renegade he could vote Renegade with the anonymous vote too and "Someone has voted for Renegade" will appear, or he can split his vote and vote for someone else entirely!

Would open up some very interesting WIFOM possibilities and it doesn't have the issues that Elector has.

Mass misinformation is objectively very harmful.

But perhaps the biggest obstacle in addressing it is that there seems to be zero good solutions for dealing with it. (As you just pointed out several glaring flaws with the government taking that role)

I have no idea what a good solution would be either.

Mass misinformation is objectively very harmful.

But perhaps the biggest obstacle in addressing it is that there seems to be zero good solutions for dealing with it. (As you just pointed out several glaring flaws with the government taking that role)

I have no idea what a good solution would be either.

[QUOTE=deathworlds;967253][B][COLOR="#FFFFFF"]Yes[/COLOR][/B]



[COLOR="#FFFFFF"][B]Death from mixing both compounds now happens before sharing.[/B][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Why would the Saboteur ever want to do anything but give the same person both A and B to guarantee a kill on that person?

Originally Posted by deathworlds

Yes



Death from mixing both compounds now happens before sharing.

Why would the Saboteur ever want to do anything but give the same person both A and B to guarantee a kill on that person?

Now [B]THIS[/B] is an FM setup

Agent only has a 1-shot KP for the entire game if I'm understanding this correctly?

Why wouldn't the Saboteur just expose the same player to both A + B effectively killing them AND anyone they shared their fuel with? Like a double KP every night.

Now THIS is an FM setup

Agent only has a 1-shot KP for the entire game if I'm understanding this correctly?

Why wouldn't the Saboteur just expose the same player to both A + B effectively killing them AND anyone they shared their fuel with? Like a double KP every night.

Called me the n-word and it really hurt my feelings :c

[ATTACH]28522[/ATTACH]

[Spoiler=Chat Log]
00:11 Invictus -repick
00:18 Invictus 12s save is shit
00:20 Invictus just start
00:23 Invictus 12 is a thrower and a troll
00:30 Invictus troll ass bitch
00:33 Invictus -American Sniper
01:10 Invictus i am neutral benign. leave me alone
01:42 Invictus nah
01:44 Invictus i am not voting
01:46 Invictus just watching
01:55 Invictus -lw
02:45 Invictus -LW
02:46 Invictus -lw
02:49 Invictus -lw
02:50 Invictus -lw
02:54 Invictus -lw
02:55 Invictus -lw
02:56 Invictus -lw
02:57 Invictus -lw
03:02 Invictus I CANNOT BE A KILLING ROLE. SHIT SAVE. GOING AFK
03:41 Invictus lol
03:59 Invictus i am amnesiac
04:02 Invictus u will be wasting
04:12 Invictus doesnt mean
04:13 Invictus i wont play
04:21 Invictus ok
04:25 Invictus get auditor shit ass
[COLOR="#FF0000"]06:33 Invictus I AM CONFIRMED NOW NIGGA
06:40 Invictus NIGGER 5
06:42 Invictus STFU
06:49 Invictus 5 IS A NIGGER[/COLOR]
07:06 Invictus Good bye
07:08 Invictus 6 is confirmed
07:10 Invictus why visit him
08:56 Invictus -lw
09:44 Invictus gg
[/SPOILER]

Called me the n-word and it really hurt my feelings :c

Spoiler : Chat Log :

00:11 Invictus -repick
00:18 Invictus 12s save is shit
00:20 Invictus just start
00:23 Invictus 12 is a thrower and a troll
00:30 Invictus troll ass bitch
00:33 Invictus -American Sniper
01:10 Invictus i am neutral benign. leave me alone
01:42 Invictus nah
01:44 Invictus i am not voting
01:46 Invictus just watching
01:55 Invictus -lw
02:45 Invictus -LW
02:46 Invictus -lw
02:49 Invictus -lw
02:50 Invictus -lw
02:54 Invictus -lw
02:55 Invictus -lw
02:56 Invictus -lw
02:57 Invictus -lw
03:02 Invictus I CANNOT BE A KILLING ROLE. SHIT SAVE. GOING AFK
03:41 Invictus lol
03:59 Invictus i am amnesiac
04:02 Invictus u will be wasting
04:12 Invictus doesnt mean
04:13 Invictus i wont play
04:21 Invictus ok
04:25 Invictus get auditor shit ass
06:33 Invictus I AM CONFIRMED NOW NIGGA
06:40 Invictus NIGGER 5
06:42 Invictus STFU
06:49 Invictus 5 IS A NIGGER
07:06 Invictus Good bye
07:08 Invictus 6 is confirmed
07:10 Invictus why visit him
08:56 Invictus -lw
09:44 Invictus gg

[QUOTE=Lag;967154]Where do you draw the line then? 10 minutes left? 1 hour left? Depending on when EoD time is, it is conceivable that the period of time between 9 hours till EoD and 8 hours till EoD could be the middle of night for players and so someone doing a sneaky duel at that point could have the same effect[/QUOTE]

Posted this before I saw your most recent posts.

This setup is [COLOR="#00FF00"][B]Approved[/B][/COLOR]!

Originally Posted by Lag

Where do you draw the line then? 10 minutes left? 1 hour left? Depending on when EoD time is, it is conceivable that the period of time between 9 hours till EoD and 8 hours till EoD could be the middle of night for players and so someone doing a sneaky duel at that point could have the same effect

Posted this before I saw your most recent posts.

This setup is Approved!

[QUOTE=Guillo;967151]No lol. With one minute left i just ignore it.[/QUOTE]

Where do you draw the line then? 10 minutes left? 1 hour left? Depending on when EoD time is, it is conceivable that the period of time between 9 hours till EoD and 8 hours till EoD could be the middle of night for players and so someone doing a sneaky duel at that point could have the same effect

Originally Posted by Guillo

No lol. With one minute left i just ignore it.

Where do you draw the line then? 10 minutes left? 1 hour left? Depending on when EoD time is, it is conceivable that the period of time between 9 hours till EoD and 8 hours till EoD could be the middle of night for players and so someone doing a sneaky duel at that point could have the same effect

[COLOR="#FFF0f5"][B][U]SC ID VERIFICATION[/U][/B][/COLOR]
[B]AnOldSong[/B] 1-S2-1-11647709 [color=#00ff00]Correct[/color]

[color="#fff0f5"][u][b]Respective Hotkeys[/b][/u][/color]
Ctrl + 1

[B][U][COLOR="#FFF0F5"]Summary[/COLOR][/U][/B]
Invictus rolled [COLOR="#00cc66"]Party Host[/COLOR], AnOldSong rolled [COLOR="#55cc11"]Bus Driver[/COLOR].
On Day 1 the two bickered in day chat.
Night 1 AnOldSong swapped Invictus with Slot 13.
Day 2 AnOldSong claimed [COLOR="#00ff00"]Sheriff[/COLOR] and that Invictus was mafia. AnOldSong made no attempt to claim his real role or last will, was voted guilty, and flipped [COLOR="#55cc11"]Bus Driver[/COLOR].

[SPOILER=Chat Log]
[COLOR="#FF0000"]00:45 AnOldSong -nigger[/COLOR]
01:12 AnOldSong invuctus is a slag
01:36 AnOldSong grand inquisitor im sending someone to you tonight
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]03:13 AnOldSong sheriff here
03:15 AnOldSong 15 is mafia
03:18 AnOldSong all on 15
03:19 AnOldSong rn
03:20 AnOldSong town on 15
03:25 AnOldSong town 15
03:30 AnOldSong town 15 right now
03:38 AnOldSong confirm my role plesae
03:45 AnOldSong confirm my role plese
04:04 AnOldSong ok
04:06 AnOldSong 15 is mafia
04:09 AnOldSong im sheriff
04:13 AnOldSong lynch me though
04:36 AnOldSong inno if you are town[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FF0000"]04:58 AnOldSong good one niggers[/COLOR]
05:02 AnOldSong mothership extended
[COLOR="#FF0000"]06:26 AnOldSong you dead fag[/COLOR]
06:26 AnOldSong you
06:26 AnOldSong dead
06:26 AnOldSong dead
[COLOR="#FF0000"]06:26 AnOldSong fag
06:26 AnOldSong fag dead[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FF0000"]06:26 AnOldSong 15 got smooked like the faggot he is[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FF0000"]06:29 AnOldSong you dead nigger[/COLOR]
06:37 AnOldSong good
06:41 AnOldSong invictus is dead
[COLOR="#FF0000"]06:51 AnOldSong invictus you here fag[/COLOR]
06:57 AnOldSong monkey man 15
[COLOR="#FF0000"]07:03 AnOldSong im reporting you fag[/COLOR]
07:07 AnOldSong i know frinkcles
07:10 AnOldSong we talk on discord
07:13 AnOldSong you are fucked
07:16 AnOldSong im taking your id now
07:26 AnOldSong imma go dm him rn
07:30 AnOldSong great
07:43 AnOldSong u huh
07:50 AnOldSong exactly
08:00 AnOldSong exactly
08:09 AnOldSong im still contacting frinkles about you
08:17 AnOldSong i just dmed him
[COLOR="#FF0000"]08:20 AnOldSong gl fag
08:36 AnOldSong sensitive fags need to go[/COLOR]
08:42 AnOldSong you aint got a place in society anymore
08:45 AnOldSong time to grow up
[/SPOILER]
===

Very clear cut intentional game throwing + racism.

Given the recent previous offenses, I recommend at least a BLx2 - with a potentially greater punishment depending on the status of his other pending reports.

[B][U][COLOR="#FFF0F5"]Player Offenses[/COLOR][/U][/B]
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]Intentional Gamethrowing[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#00FFFF"]Other[/COLOR]

[B][U][COLOR="#FFF0F5"]Previous Offenses[/COLOR][/U][/B]
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]Intentional Gamethrowing[/COLOR] ([COLOR="#00FF00"]WLx2[/COLOR] [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49887"]March 2022[/URL])
[COLOR="#FFA500"]Griefing[/COLOR] ([COLOR="#00FF00"]WLx4[/COLOR] [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49901"]March 2022[/URL])

[B][U][COLOR="#FFF0F5"]Recommended Action[/COLOR][/U][/B]
[COLOR="#FF0000"]BLx2+[/COLOR]

[B][U][COLOR="#FFF0F5"]Additional Notes[/COLOR][/U][/B]
Thank you for taking the time to submit this report in your effort to make the community a better place :)

SC ID VERIFICATION
AnOldSong 1-S2-1-11647709 Correct

Respective Hotkeys
Ctrl + 1

Summary
Invictus rolled Party Host, AnOldSong rolled Bus Driver.
On Day 1 the two bickered in day chat.
Night 1 AnOldSong swapped Invictus with Slot 13.
Day 2 AnOldSong claimed Sheriff and that Invictus was mafia. AnOldSong made no attempt to claim his real role or last will, was voted guilty, and flipped Bus Driver.

Spoiler : Chat Log :

00:45 AnOldSong -nigger
01:12 AnOldSong invuctus is a slag
01:36 AnOldSong grand inquisitor im sending someone to you tonight
03:13 AnOldSong sheriff here
03:15 AnOldSong 15 is mafia
03:18 AnOldSong all on 15
03:19 AnOldSong rn
03:20 AnOldSong town on 15
03:25 AnOldSong town 15
03:30 AnOldSong town 15 right now
03:38 AnOldSong confirm my role plesae
03:45 AnOldSong confirm my role plese
04:04 AnOldSong ok
04:06 AnOldSong 15 is mafia
04:09 AnOldSong im sheriff
04:13 AnOldSong lynch me though
04:36 AnOldSong inno if you are town
04:58 AnOldSong good one niggers
05:02 AnOldSong mothership extended
06:26 AnOldSong you dead fag
06:26 AnOldSong you
06:26 AnOldSong dead
06:26 AnOldSong dead
06:26 AnOldSong fag
06:26 AnOldSong fag dead
06:26 AnOldSong 15 got smooked like the faggot he is
06:29 AnOldSong you dead nigger
06:37 AnOldSong good
06:41 AnOldSong invictus is dead
06:51 AnOldSong invictus you here fag
06:57 AnOldSong monkey man 15
07:03 AnOldSong im reporting you fag
07:07 AnOldSong i know frinkcles
07:10 AnOldSong we talk on discord
07:13 AnOldSong you are fucked
07:16 AnOldSong im taking your id now
07:26 AnOldSong imma go dm him rn
07:30 AnOldSong great
07:43 AnOldSong u huh
07:50 AnOldSong exactly
08:00 AnOldSong exactly
08:09 AnOldSong im still contacting frinkles about you
08:17 AnOldSong i just dmed him
08:20 AnOldSong gl fag
08:36 AnOldSong sensitive fags need to go
08:42 AnOldSong you aint got a place in society anymore
08:45 AnOldSong time to grow up

===

Very clear cut intentional game throwing + racism.

Given the recent previous offenses, I recommend at least a BLx2 - with a potentially greater punishment depending on the status of his other pending reports.

Player Offenses
Intentional Gamethrowing
Other

Previous Offenses
Intentional Gamethrowing (WLx2 March 2022)
Griefing (WLx4 March 2022)

Recommended Action
BLx2+

Additional Notes
Thank you for taking the time to submit this report in your effort to make the community a better place

Hypothetical question:

No one has started a duel yet and there it's 8 hours and 1 minute before EoD.

Could someone theoretically duel someone, have the 8 hour mark be reached causing the duel to expire, tied at 0-0, resulting in both players dying?

Alternatively, someone could duel at the 8 hour and 1 minute mark before EoD, then a single other person votes in the duel - resulting in that single vote deciding the outcome of the duel?


One solution would be to add an additional requirement like a duel must be started in the first 24 hours of the day phase

Hypothetical question:

No one has started a duel yet and there it's 8 hours and 1 minute before EoD.

Could someone theoretically duel someone, have the 8 hour mark be reached causing the duel to expire, tied at 0-0, resulting in both players dying?

Alternatively, someone could duel at the 8 hour and 1 minute mark before EoD, then a single other person votes in the duel - resulting in that single vote deciding the outcome of the duel?


One solution would be to add an additional requirement like a duel must be started in the first 24 hours of the day phase

[B][COLOR="#00FF00"]Approved[/COLOR][/B]

Approved

[QUOTE=deathworlds;967142][MENTION=11411]Lag[/MENTION] [MENTION=29377]Marshmallow Marshall[/MENTION][/QUOTE]

You have 11v2 town rather than 9v2 town, is that intended?

Originally Posted by deathworlds

@Lag @Marshmallow Marshall

You have 11v2 town rather than 9v2 town, is that intended?

On the topic of preserving the brand of games that Sc2Mafia runs - I don't think night-only chat is necessary. Or even really a [I]part[/I] of that brand.

When I think of "what makes Sc2 Mafia games unique?" Night-only chat isn't even something that comes to mind.


Where I think Sc2Mafia games shine is that so many of the setups here fundamentally question some core mechanic of FM while doing so in a coherent, cohesive way.


We don't just run role madness games where the host pulls up a bunch of esoteric role modifiers and then sticks them onto obscure roles they found on [URL="https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/database/mafia-roles/"]this list[/URL] and then calls it a day. And while I've played in and had lots of fun in several games like that - that's not the type of game we run here.

The games we run here ask questions like

[LIST]
[*][URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49942-S-FM-341-American-Flag-Nightless"]What would happen if we made a setup where everyone had a gun?[/URL]
[*][URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49899-S-FM-340-Election-Day-2-0"]What would happen if the winner wasn't the last one standing, but the faction whose presidential candidate received the most votes?[/URL]
[*][URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49755-S-FM-339-KRC-M-FM-edition"]What would happen if all the roles in the game were submitted by the players rather than the host?[/URL]
[*][URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49555-S-FM-337-Play-at-Your-Own-Risk"]What would happen if there was only one wolf in the entire playerlist, but they had unlimited death tailoring[/URL]
[*][URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49367-S-FM-335-Bisected-Souls"]What would happen if we ran a pseudo hydra game with support-vote currency and a shop?[/URL]
[*][URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/48770-S-FM-327-Last-Hope"]What would happen if the setup centered around leveling up to gain power roles?[/URL]
[/LIST]

And then the setup is formed around that key concept to make a fun cohesive setup. (With a few more vanilla setups thrown in between for a change of pace)

And I think [I]that[/I] brand of FM is what makes the games on Sc2Mafia so great.

On the topic of preserving the brand of games that Sc2Mafia runs - I don't think night-only chat is necessary. Or even really a part of that brand.

When I think of "what makes Sc2 Mafia games unique?" Night-only chat isn't even something that comes to mind.


Where I think Sc2Mafia games shine is that so many of the setups here fundamentally question some core mechanic of FM while doing so in a coherent, cohesive way.


We don't just run role madness games where the host pulls up a bunch of esoteric role modifiers and then sticks them onto obscure roles they found on this list and then calls it a day. And while I've played in and had lots of fun in several games like that - that's not the type of game we run here.

The games we run here ask questions like

• What would happen if we made a setup where everyone had a gun?
• What would happen if the winner wasn't the last one standing, but the faction whose presidential candidate received the most votes?
• What would happen if all the roles in the game were submitted by the players rather than the host?
• What would happen if there was only one wolf in the entire playerlist, but they had unlimited death tailoring
• What would happen if we ran a pseudo hydra game with support-vote currency and a shop?
• What would happen if the setup centered around leveling up to gain power roles?

And then the setup is formed around that key concept to make a fun cohesive setup. (With a few more vanilla setups thrown in between for a change of pace)

And I think that brand of FM is what makes the games on Sc2Mafia so great.

The pros of 24/7 chat vs night-only chat can be largely grouped into two overarching categories, pretty much all of these points have already been stated by various members (thank you!), but to summarize them:

[COLOR="#FFFFFF"][B][SIZE=4]Player Enjoyment[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]
- 24/7 wolf chat almost always creates a more enjoyable experience for the wolf team.
- It especially makes the new player experience for players that rand wolf much more enjoyable as they're able to receive feedback and advice throughout the day rather than just being thrown in the deep-end.
- All across the FM-sphere sites have switched to 24/7 wolf-chat as a symptom of the fact that it's much more enjoyable.
- It's such a big difference even that some players will flat out refuse to sign for games that are night-only chat.

[COLOR="#FFFFFF"][B][SIZE=4]Elevates the Level of Wolf Play[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]
- The constant communication allows for wolves to discuss and execute more advanced strategies.
- It allows for new wolves to be coached by more experienced wolves, elevating their play to a level much greater than they would have otherwise have had without the feedback.
- It also allows for players to learn from more experienced wolves, elevating the site-wide level of wolf play over time as players are better able to learn strategies from each other in real time.
- As wolf play is elevated, it also opens up new possibilities for players to read into player interactions and catch wolves adding more strategic depth to the game
- Wolf chat is pretty undeniably a buff to the wolves, so to compensate, more town-sided setups can be introduced to counter balance this - creating new challenges for all players as they enter each setup


Attracting new players to the site isn't even the primary appeal of 24/7 chat. And while such a change will make bringing in off-site players easier, the biggest reason it actually makes it easier is because it's generally much more fun for the wolves and people want to play in fun games; getting people to sign for fun setups is infinitely easier than the alternative!


[B][COLOR="#FFFFFF"]So what do I mean when I say "making 24/7 chat the default?" [/COLOR][/B]

Well, I pretty much mean just that - I believe that when approaching approaching setup creation and hosting the default assumption should be that wolves will have 24/7 chat, for all the previously stated reasons. And the decision to [I]not [/I]have 24/7 chat I believe should be done as a deliberate [I]design[/I] decision by the setup creator and [I]not[/I] done as a [I]balance[/I] decision.

The difference between the two can be subtle, but it is an important distinction. A design decision has the setup made around said decision in mind. Deathworlds gave a very good example earlier of having a multiball setup where one faction is larger with less powerful roles, but night-only chat, while another faction is smaller with more powerful roles and a 24/7 chat. That example of asymmetric design is a very clear and effective design choice centered around the mechanic. In contrast a setup which is deemed too wolf-sided being balanced by simply removing 24/7 chat is [I]not[/I] how I think setup balance should be approached as it's removing a very fun, high QoL feature in the name of balance.

The purpose of balance is that imbalance tends to be not fun, so pursuing balance is merely a means to the end of making the setup more enjoyable. Therefore changes which sacrifice player enjoyment in the name of balance I believe are counterproductive.


[B][COLOR="#FFFFFF"]So why is this discussion even necessary? [/COLOR][/B]

There have been 17 FM setups put into the queue since I first got into FM on this site. Some of them were canceled, one of them never started, but they all contribute to the picture of the types of setups we run here.

The setups were:

[table="width: 500, class: grid, align: center"]
[tr]
[td][COLOR="#008080"]Matrix6[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#008080"]Last Hope[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FFD700"]Lazy[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#B22222"]All Stars[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#B22222"]Wilder Wilder Wastelander[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FFD700"]Blackflag Nightess[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#008080"]Loony Toon World*[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#00FFFF"]Gravity Falls[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#008080"]Murder in the Mid-Atlantic[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#008080"]Once Upon a Town in the West[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#008080"]Bisected Souls[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#008080"]Politico II[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#DDA0DD"]Play at Your Own Risk[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#00FF00"]Deck Mafia #008
KRC: M-FM edition[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#008080"]Election Day 2.0[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FFD700"]American Flag Nightless[/COLOR][/td]
[td][B][COLOR="#FFD700"]Nightless Setups[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#B22222"]No Full Factional Chat at All[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#008080"]Night-Only Chat[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#DDA0DD"]Only 1 Wolf[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#00FFFF"]Non-Standard Chat Mechanics[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#00FF00"]24/7 Chat[/COLOR][/B][/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

[SIZE=1][COLOR="#696969"]*I'm actually not positive about this one, if someone knows for sure they should correct me!
[/COLOR][/SIZE]

So of the last 17 FM setups, 13 of them were eligible for 24/7 chat (not nightless, more than 1 wolf) but only 2 of them had it. And one of those games was a cross-community game with different standards than usual for this site, making the numbers more like 1/12 rather than 2/13!



So similar to how the site has moved away from Majority only to a Plurality or Plurality + Majority as the default elimination types. I'm also hoping that by starting this discussion on wolf chat we can move towards having 24/7 wolf chat be the default.


Does that means 24/7 wolf chat is banned or won't be allowed? Absolutely not!

A setup with specific asymmetric design can have night-only chat
A throwback re-run of a past setup can have night-only chat
A setup that's aiming to emulate the mod can have night-only chat

There a plenty of cases where using night-only chat for wolves I think is perfectly valid and we don't seek to restrict hosts rights here. But we also want to encourage hosts to design setups to maximize the enjoyment of their players and the health of the site. And that is why I believe setup design should be approached from the setup of "assume 24/7 wolf chat, or have a specific design reason for not including it."

The pros of 24/7 chat vs night-only chat can be largely grouped into two overarching categories, pretty much all of these points have already been stated by various members (thank you!), but to summarize them:

Player Enjoyment
- 24/7 wolf chat almost always creates a more enjoyable experience for the wolf team.
- It especially makes the new player experience for players that rand wolf much more enjoyable as they're able to receive feedback and advice throughout the day rather than just being thrown in the deep-end.
- All across the FM-sphere sites have switched to 24/7 wolf-chat as a symptom of the fact that it's much more enjoyable.
- It's such a big difference even that some players will flat out refuse to sign for games that are night-only chat.

Elevates the Level of Wolf Play
- The constant communication allows for wolves to discuss and execute more advanced strategies.
- It allows for new wolves to be coached by more experienced wolves, elevating their play to a level much greater than they would have otherwise have had without the feedback.
- It also allows for players to learn from more experienced wolves, elevating the site-wide level of wolf play over time as players are better able to learn strategies from each other in real time.
- As wolf play is elevated, it also opens up new possibilities for players to read into player interactions and catch wolves adding more strategic depth to the game
- Wolf chat is pretty undeniably a buff to the wolves, so to compensate, more town-sided setups can be introduced to counter balance this - creating new challenges for all players as they enter each setup


Attracting new players to the site isn't even the primary appeal of 24/7 chat. And while such a change will make bringing in off-site players easier, the biggest reason it actually makes it easier is because it's generally much more fun for the wolves and people want to play in fun games; getting people to sign for fun setups is infinitely easier than the alternative!


So what do I mean when I say "making 24/7 chat the default?"

Well, I pretty much mean just that - I believe that when approaching approaching setup creation and hosting the default assumption should be that wolves will have 24/7 chat, for all the previously stated reasons. And the decision to not have 24/7 chat I believe should be done as a deliberate design decision by the setup creator and not done as a balance decision.

The difference between the two can be subtle, but it is an important distinction. A design decision has the setup made around said decision in mind. Deathworlds gave a very good example earlier of having a multiball setup where one faction is larger with less powerful roles, but night-only chat, while another faction is smaller with more powerful roles and a 24/7 chat. That example of asymmetric design is a very clear and effective design choice centered around the mechanic. In contrast a setup which is deemed too wolf-sided being balanced by simply removing 24/7 chat is not how I think setup balance should be approached as it's removing a very fun, high QoL feature in the name of balance.

The purpose of balance is that imbalance tends to be not fun, so pursuing balance is merely a means to the end of making the setup more enjoyable. Therefore changes which sacrifice player enjoyment in the name of balance I believe are counterproductive.


So why is this discussion even necessary?

There have been 17 FM setups put into the queue since I first got into FM on this site. Some of them were canceled, one of them never started, but they all contribute to the picture of the types of setups we run here.

The setups were:

Matrix6 Last Hope Lazy All Stars Wilder Wilder Wastelander Blackflag Nightess Loony Toon World* Gravity Falls Murder in the Mid-Atlantic Once Upon a Town in the West Bisected Souls Politico II Play at Your Own Risk Deck Mafia #008 KRC: M-FM edition Election Day 2.0 American Flag Nightless

Nightless Setups No Full Factional Chat at All Night-Only Chat Only 1 Wolf Non-Standard Chat Mechanics 24/7 Chat

*I'm actually not positive about this one, if someone knows for sure they should correct me!


So of the last 17 FM setups, 13 of them were eligible for 24/7 chat (not nightless, more than 1 wolf) but only 2 of them had it. And one of those games was a cross-community game with different standards than usual for this site, making the numbers more like 1/12 rather than 2/13!



So similar to how the site has moved away from Majority only to a Plurality or Plurality + Majority as the default elimination types. I'm also hoping that by starting this discussion on wolf chat we can move towards having 24/7 wolf chat be the default.


Does that means 24/7 wolf chat is banned or won't be allowed? Absolutely not!

A setup with specific asymmetric design can have night-only chat
A throwback re-run of a past setup can have night-only chat
A setup that's aiming to emulate the mod can have night-only chat

There a plenty of cases where using night-only chat for wolves I think is perfectly valid and we don't seek to restrict hosts rights here. But we also want to encourage hosts to design setups to maximize the enjoyment of their players and the health of the site. And that is why I believe setup design should be approached from the setup of "assume 24/7 wolf chat, or have a specific design reason for not including it."

[QUOTE=Guillo;967129]Yah But I had to hard buss two of my partners to go deep. It was not an easy win for the rest of my team, it was for me because I open wolfed the shit out of it.[/QUOTE]

I would argue that part of what makes mountainous difficult for town is that there's much less to counter bussing than other setups.

But that aside, by the numbers, 13v4 duelling is just a little bit more wolfsided than a 10v3 mountainous game.
And while 10v3 is playable, it's rather difficult for town.

You might consider nerfing town to 14v4 rather than 13v4?

Although ultimately all three variants (15v4, 14v4, 13v4) are going to be within a playable range of balance so we'll leave the final call up to you.

Originally Posted by Guillo

Yah But I had to hard buss two of my partners to go deep. It was not an easy win for the rest of my team, it was for me because I open wolfed the shit out of it.

I would argue that part of what makes mountainous difficult for town is that there's much less to counter bussing than other setups.

But that aside, by the numbers, 13v4 duelling is just a little bit more wolfsided than a 10v3 mountainous game.
And while 10v3 is playable, it's rather difficult for town.

You might consider nerfing town to 14v4 rather than 13v4?

Although ultimately all three variants (15v4, 14v4, 13v4) are going to be within a playable range of balance so we'll leave the final call up to you.

So EV Project numbers are coming up with
15v4 - 23.82%
14v4 - 23.31%
13v4 - 19.72%

For reference, 12v3 mountainous is 24.5%
9v2 is 35.2%
7v2 is 29.8%

So all of the duel setups I mentioned are more wolf sided than any of those mountainous games. At least on paper.

I think 13v4 is likely to be a bit wolf sided. After all, wolves did end up winning the 15v4 game anyway, right?

So EV Project numbers are coming up with
15v4 - 23.82%
14v4 - 23.31%
13v4 - 19.72%

For reference, 12v3 mountainous is 24.5%
9v2 is 35.2%
7v2 is 29.8%

So all of the duel setups I mentioned are more wolf sided than any of those mountainous games. At least on paper.

I think 13v4 is likely to be a bit wolf sided. After all, wolves did end up winning the 15v4 game anyway, right?

[QUOTE=Marshmallow Marshall;967111]It would be a good idea to specify some things directly in the OP: mafia has a 24/7 chat (not just a "Night Chat"), "a duel cannot be active 8 hours prior to EoD" (the OP says "at any time during the day"), the setup is strictly mountainous (just having the two rolecards be public would be enough and would make things clearer).

Balance question open to discussion: The reason the setup was deemed townsided when it was played seems to have been the fact town has access to double the kill power. Can't town just... be wrong, though? In other words, is the ability to get more people democratically killed (via dueo or via lynch) that inherently strong for town, or does it simply amplify the effect of good/bad towns? Here, if town mislynches+misduels thrice, it loses, which seems fair enough, but is probably more wolfsided than it is townsided.

[U]Speaking as a player and not as staff[/U]: If the phase lenght is 36/12, I will simply not sign for the game, because that is a pure torture for real life schedules in my opinion (and in my experience). I know such phases are relatively common on some other sites, but they are not here, so while you [I]can[/I] host 36/12, I think it's a fair warning to say some players here won't sign (at least one xD). @ others, that might be good to confirm or to deny; I'm actually curious what people think of phases that aren't multiples of 24.[/QUOTE]

+1 on having trouble with 36/12

For the champs scheduling form I rated
12/12 - 1/7
36/12 - 2/7
48/24 - 7/7
72/24 - 6/7

36/12 phases is often enough for me to not sign for a game unless it's something I'm particularly hyped for.

As for balance, I'm working on some EV project numbers for the game and will post them soon

Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

It would be a good idea to specify some things directly in the OP: mafia has a 24/7 chat (not just a "Night Chat"), "a duel cannot be active 8 hours prior to EoD" (the OP says "at any time during the day"), the setup is strictly mountainous (just having the two rolecards be public would be enough and would make things clearer).

Balance question open to discussion: The reason the setup was deemed townsided when it was played seems to have been the fact town has access to double the kill power. Can't town just... be wrong, though? In other words, is the ability to get more people democratically killed (via dueo or via lynch) that inherently strong for town, or does it simply amplify the effect of good/bad towns? Here, if town mislynches+misduels thrice, it loses, which seems fair enough, but is probably more wolfsided than it is townsided.

Speaking as a player and not as staff: If the phase lenght is 36/12, I will simply not sign for the game, because that is a pure torture for real life schedules in my opinion (and in my experience). I know such phases are relatively common on some other sites, but they are not here, so while you can host 36/12, I think it's a fair warning to say some players here won't sign (at least one xD). @ others, that might be good to confirm or to deny; I'm actually curious what people think of phases that aren't multiples of 24.

+1 on having trouble with 36/12

For the champs scheduling form I rated
12/12 - 1/7
36/12 - 2/7
48/24 - 7/7
72/24 - 6/7

36/12 phases is often enough for me to not sign for a game unless it's something I'm particularly hyped for.

As for balance, I'm working on some EV project numbers for the game and will post them soon

What happens if there is a tie in the duel vote count?
E.g 9 players left = 7 non duelists = 4 for non duel majority. 2v2 vote

I presume that you would change the number of votes to hammer during a duel to reflect the new majority, but what happens if the host is offline for the hammer? Does that lost time before the host comes back get compensated in some way?

What happens if there is a tie in the duel vote count?
E.g 9 players left = 7 non duelists = 4 for non duel majority. 2v2 vote

I presume that you would change the number of votes to hammer during a duel to reflect the new majority, but what happens if the host is offline for the hammer? Does that lost time before the host comes back get compensated in some way?

Can people duel an unlimited number of times?

Is there a limit to how close to EoD someone can duel?

What happens if EoD is reached without a majority voting on the duel?

Can people duel an unlimited number of times?

Is there a limit to how close to EoD someone can duel?

What happens if EoD is reached without a majority voting on the duel?

Mizery has been voted in as the backup!

Congratulations [MENTION=45970]Mizery[/MENTION]

Mizery has been voted in as the backup!

Congratulations @Mizery

[QUOTE=deathworlds;966982]even if we took a proactive approach to recruiting, there isn't likely to be that many people that 1. play the mod, 2. play FM on our site, 3. is willing to actively try and recruit people from the mod to our site, and 4. be staff material.[/QUOTE]


By the way, if there is actually someone that fits this criteria and is interested in helping recruit mod players to play in FM as a staff role. DM me

Originally Posted by deathworlds

even if we took a proactive approach to recruiting, there isn't likely to be that many people that 1. play the mod, 2. play FM on our site, 3. is willing to actively try and recruit people from the mod to our site, and 4. be staff material.

By the way, if there is actually someone that fits this criteria and is interested in helping recruit mod players to play in FM as a staff role. DM me

One change that we've been discussing making moving forwards is switching to using 24/7 wolf chats as the default on the site as opposed to the night-only chats from the past.

Anyone who has heard me talk about the topic knows I greatly prefer 24/7 wolf chat over night-only chat, but before I make my case I want to open the floor to the community to discuss the two options first.

One change that we've been discussing making moving forwards is switching to using 24/7 wolf chats as the default on the site as opposed to the night-only chats from the past.

Anyone who has heard me talk about the topic knows I greatly prefer 24/7 wolf chat over night-only chat, but before I make my case I want to open the floor to the community to discuss the two options first.

Alternatively, here's why I deserve MVP,
I was the only player that did all of:
-Won the game
-Didn't shoot a fellow town
-Didn't get shot by a fellow town
-Didn't flame excessively

#LagForMVP

Alternatively, here's why I deserve MVP,
I was the only player that did all of:
-Won the game
-Didn't shoot a fellow town
-Didn't get shot by a fellow town
-Didn't flame excessively

#LagForMVP

[vote]No one[/vote]

-vote No one

[QUOTE=oliverz144;966890]traffic analyst has a night action checking if a slot had a private chat that night.
in "normal" set-ups thats basically an alignment cop, as that makes only the scumchat trigger a positive result. however, a jailor with a victim-chat could possibly create "false positives", and lead to a town power role outing, or even getting lynched.[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=Marshmallow Marshall;966891]Ah. That would just be a setup based on nightchats and on claims, though. It's far from nonsensical. In fact, traffic analyst only makes sense if there are townies who can have private chats. Else, you can just call them alignment cops...[/QUOTE]


An important thing to add about traffic analyst is that it's an "anti-swing" alignment cop since it checks if someone has another player they are able to legally talk to at night, so once mafia is down to only one member left it stops returning positive results on the mafia because they have no one to talk to at night.

Generally makes balancing setups easier because unlike more swingy roles (e.g Tracker who gets stronger as more mafia die) which can lead to snowballing, it gets weaker as town is doing better (well, specifically once mafia is down to only one player, but it still falls under the anti-swing category)
[MENTION=29377]Marshmallow Marshall[/MENTION]

Originally Posted by oliverz144

traffic analyst has a night action checking if a slot had a private chat that night.
in "normal" set-ups thats basically an alignment cop, as that makes only the scumchat trigger a positive result. however, a jailor with a victim-chat could possibly create "false positives", and lead to a town power role outing, or even getting lynched.

Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

Ah. That would just be a setup based on nightchats and on claims, though. It's far from nonsensical. In fact, traffic analyst only makes sense if there are townies who can have private chats. Else, you can just call them alignment cops...

An important thing to add about traffic analyst is that it's an "anti-swing" alignment cop since it checks if someone has another player they are able to legally talk to at night, so once mafia is down to only one member left it stops returning positive results on the mafia because they have no one to talk to at night.

Generally makes balancing setups easier because unlike more swingy roles (e.g Tracker who gets stronger as more mafia die) which can lead to snowballing, it gets weaker as town is doing better (well, specifically once mafia is down to only one player, but it still falls under the anti-swing category)
@Marshmallow Marshall

[QUOTE=aamirus;966854]i got a 2017 toyota corolla like a week before lockdowns started in the US. For about 12k and it's now worth about 18k. Obviously anecdotal experience but it's still kind of shocking. If that 7% feels high to anybody i mean... the us government will happily give you 7% interest on a 10k bond for at least the next 6 months [url]https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/research/indepth/ibonds/res_ibonds.htm[/url] - although i wager if you wait til may to buy it, it'll be closer to 8%[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Lag;966843]
Meat prices up 13.0%
Fuel up 43.6% (although this is arguably more due to geopolitics than it is inflation)
[COLOR="#FFFFFF"][B]Used Cars and Trucks up 41.2%[/B][/COLOR]
Airline fare up 12.7%
[/QUOTE]

Yes, vehicles are one of the areas that has definitely increased far more than 7-8% used vehicles are up 41.2% in the last year alone. (And this fact is indeed taken into account in the CPI)

Originally Posted by aamirus

i got a 2017 toyota corolla like a week before lockdowns started in the US. For about 12k and it's now worth about 18k. Obviously anecdotal experience but it's still kind of shocking. If that 7% feels high to anybody i mean... the us government will happily give you 7% interest on a 10k bond for at least the next 6 months https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv...res_ibonds.htm - although i wager if you wait til may to buy it, it'll be closer to 8%

Originally Posted by Lag

Meat prices up 13.0%
Fuel up 43.6% (although this is arguably more due to geopolitics than it is inflation)
Used Cars and Trucks up 41.2%
Airline fare up 12.7%

Yes, vehicles are one of the areas that has definitely increased far more than 7-8% used vehicles are up 41.2% in the last year alone. (And this fact is indeed taken into account in the CPI)

[COLOR="#FFF0f5"][B][U]SC ID VERIFICATION[/U][/B][/COLOR]
[B]Eatgauss[/B] 1-S2-1-2455889 [color=#00ff00]Correct[/color]
[B]kittens[/B] 1-S2-1-4562746 [color=#00ff00]Correct[/color]

[color="#fff0f5"][u][b]Respective Hotkeys[/b][/u][/color]
[B]Eatgauss[/B] 3
[B]kittens[/B] Ctrl + 1

[B][U][COLOR="#FFF0F5"]Summary[/COLOR][/U][/B]
Eatguass rolls [COLOR="#44ff00"]Lookout[/COLOR]

On night 1 he watches 5 and sees no one visit 5.

On night 2 he catches the [COLOR="#ff4488"]Godfather[/COLOR] visiting the player that died to Mafia and claims it right away.

The [COLOR="#ff4488"]Godfather[/COLOR] gets voted up and then leaves the game, ending the day.

On night 3 he watches 1 and sees no one visit 1.

On day 4 he claims that 1 and 5 are clean, despite him being [COLOR="#44ff00"]lookout[/COLOR], NOT [COLOR="#00ff44"]detective[/COLOR].

It is possible that he misunderstood how [COLOR="#44ff00"]Lookout[/COLOR] works, although it's unlikely given that he's played 61 games. And when taken in conjunction with his chat log and last will, it seems to just be Griefing.

kittens was killed night 1 before he had the chance to say much more than this

EatGauss's last will:
[SPOILER=Last Will]nigger nigger bigger nigger 5 n1 clean n2 6 n3 1 [/SPOILER]

[SPOILER=Chat Log]00:06 Eatgauss: wtf is k pop
00:08 Eatgauss: wtf is k pop
[COLOR="#FF0000"]00:14 Eatgauss: am i a nigger?[/COLOR]
00:25 Eatgauss: theme is harry potter
00:30 kittens : repick
00:45 Eatgauss: -hagrid
01:11 Eatgauss: gay save
01:17 Eatgauss: wtf is k pop precious?
01:20 Eatgauss: YOURE A WIZARD HARRY
[COLOR="#FF0000"]01:28 kittens : ey guys what is reggiN spelled backwards[/COLOR]
01:31 Eatgauss: A BLOODY GOOD ONE AT THAT
[COLOR="#FF0000"]01:36 kittens : ll give you a hint
01:38 kittens : ts a type of monkey[/COLOR]
01:48 kittens : lw
01:51 Eatgauss: -lw
02:57 Eatgauss: this music sucks
03:00 Eatgauss: im ffing
03:10 Eatgauss: ok
03:17 Eatgauss: thats unbreable
03:52 Eatgauss: r u bruno
03:58 Eatgauss: why did he tell us
04:01 Eatgauss: we need an umbrella
04:12 Eatgauss: lynh bruno
[COLOR="#FF0000"]04:15 Eatgauss: hes a rapist
04:16 Eatgauss: mexican[/COLOR]
04:52 Eatgauss: inno
[COLOR="#FF0000"]04:56 Eatgauss: gay nigger mexican
05:00 Eatgauss: but a inno gay nigger exican[/COLOR]
05:21 Eatgauss: -skip
05:44 Eatgauss: -lw
05:49 Eatgauss: -lw
06:48 Eatgauss: 15 visited 6
07:15 Eatgauss: no 1 is also mafia
07:17 Eatgauss: if im 8 idk
07:30 Eatgauss: we need reveals
07:32 Eatgauss: tonight
08:00 Eatgauss: nigger snape
08:55 Eatgauss: doc
08:57 Eatgauss: on me
09:12 Eatgauss: -lw
10:06 Eatgauss: i got audited
10:06 Eatgauss: audited
10:06 Eatgauss: i got audited
[COLOR="#FF0000"]10:06 Eatgauss: NIGGER
10:06 Eatgauss: JEW[/COLOR]
10:10 Eatgauss: i got i got auditred
10:14 Eatgauss: i r citizn
10:20 Eatgauss: 1 and 5 are c;ean
10:27 Eatgauss: so 1,5, 8 and 14 clear
10:34 Eatgauss: \getm 13
10:36 Eatgauss: always sus
11:25 Eatgauss: 8 and 13 sus
11:37 Eatgauss: stfu
[COLOR="#FF0000"]11:39 Eatgauss: nigger[/COLOR]
13:23 Eatgauss: yea right
13:28 Eatgauss: ur mafia 8
13:31 Eatgauss: i aint dumb
13:36 Eatgauss: 8 13 mafia
14:42 Eatgauss: i still have vest
14:45 Eatgauss: get 13 next
15:23 Eatgauss: doc on 1 im vesting tonight, get 13 next
15:25 Eatgauss: doc on 1
15:31 Eatgauss: doc on 1 im vesting tonight get 13 next
15:46 Eatgauss: gg
15:48 Eatgauss: gg
15:49 Eatgauss: 1
15:52 Eatgauss: is bad
17:05 Eatgauss: how did i throw
17:10 Eatgauss: 4 ppl voted guilty on 8
17:16 Eatgauss: those 4 are also throwers
17:17 Eatgauss: witb logic
17:21 Eatgauss: u fucking inbreded monkeys
17:42 Eatgauss: how so
17:51 Eatgauss: just saying
17:54 Eatgauss: dont speak logic
17:56 Eatgauss: if you dont use it
17:58 Eatgauss: you feeling ape
[COLOR="#FF0000"]18:00 Eatgauss: go kys[/COLOR]
18:04 Eatgauss: and eat a banana
[COLOR="#FF0000"]18:44 Eatgauss: niggers[/COLOR]
18:46 Eatgauss: in paris
19:11 Eatgauss: so
19:13 Eatgauss: idgaf
19:16 Eatgauss: i solo voted him up
19:18 Eatgauss: and guiltied?
[COLOR="#FF0000"]19:19 Eatgauss: U APE
19:20 Eatgauss: DIE
19:22 Eatgauss: MONKEY[/COLOR][/SPOILER]

[B][U][COLOR="#FFF0F5"]Player Offenses[/COLOR][/U][/B]
[B]Eatgauss[/B]
[COLOR="#00FFFF"]Other[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FFA500"]Griefing[/COLOR]

[B]kittens[/B]
[COLOR="#00FFFF"]Other[/COLOR]

[B][U][COLOR="#FFF0F5"]Previous Offenses[/COLOR][/U][/B]
[B]Eatgauss[/B]
[COLOR="#D3D3D3"]None[/COLOR]

[B]kittens[/B]
[COLOR=#ffff00]Leave-Train[/COLOR] (On-Hold [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/36619-kittens-1-S2-1-4562746-Shunks-1-S2-1-5108767?highlight=4562746"]May 2016[/URL])
[COLOR=#ffa500]Griefing[/COLOR] ([COLOR=#00FF00]WLx2[/COLOR] [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37216-kittens-1-S2-1-4562746-sNoOgans-1-S2-1-6534128-Twister-1-S2-1-5343326?highlight=4562746"]July 2016[/URL])
[COLOR=#ffff00]Role-Quitting[/COLOR] ([COLOR=#00FF00]WLx2[/COLOR] [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/38069-tokamak-1-S2-1-4475486-Kittens-1-S2-1-4562746?highlight=4562746"]October 2016[/URL])
[COLOR=#ffd700]Reactionary Gamethrowing[/COLOR] ([COLOR=#00FF00]WLx4[/COLOR] [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/40932-kittens-1-S2-1-4562746-Rocket-1-S2-1-7827259?highlight=4562746"]September 2017[/URL])
[COLOR=#ff8c00]Intentional Gamethrowing[/COLOR] ([COLOR=#00FF00]WLx4[/COLOR] [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/41542-kittens-1-S2-1-4562746?highlight=4562746"]January 2018[/URL])
[COLOR=#FFA07A]Possible Hacking[/COLOR] ([COLOR=#00FF00]WLx2[/COLOR] [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/43566-Obvious-Hacking?highlight=4562746"]December 2018[/URL])
[COLOR=#ffa500]Lag-Cheating[/COLOR] ([COLOR=#00FF00]WLx4[/COLOR] [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/46057-Kittens-1-S2-1-4562746?highlight=4562746"]February 2020[/URL])
[COLOR=#ffff00]Leave-Train[/COLOR] ([COLOR=#FF0000]BLx2[/COLOR] [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/46152-Kittens-Leave-Train?highlight=4562746"]February 2020[/URL])
[COLOR=#00ffff]Other[/COLOR] ([COLOR=#ff0000]BLx4[/COLOR] ([COLOR="#8E8E8E"][URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/48743-Justince-1-S2-1-1899264-kittens-1-S2-1-4562746?highlight=kittens"]June 2021[/URL])[/COLOR])
[COLOR=#00ffff]Other[/COLOR] (+2xBL ([COLOR="#8E8E8E"]Racism[/COLOR] June 2021))
[COLOR="#00FFFF"]Other[/COLOR] ([COLOR="#00FFFF"]Pending[/COLOR] [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/49960"]April 2022[/URL])

[B][U][COLOR="#FFF0F5"]Recommended Action[/COLOR][/U][/B]
[B]Eatgauss[/B] [COLOR="#00FF00"]WLx2[/COLOR]

Every single time I've seen kittens in a report, even if he wasn't reported directly, he without fail can be added on for rule violations as well. He's not going to change, and given that there is also another outstanding report against kittens processed by Auwt, I'd recommend just Permabanning him.
[B]kittens[/B] [COLOR="#B22222"]Permaban[/COLOR]


[B][U][COLOR="#FFF0F5"]Additional Notes[/COLOR][/U][/B]
Thank you for taking the time to submit this report in your effort to make the community a better place :)

SC ID VERIFICATION
Eatgauss 1-S2-1-2455889 Correct
kittens 1-S2-1-4562746 Correct

Respective Hotkeys
Eatgauss 3
kittens Ctrl + 1

Summary
Eatguass rolls Lookout

On night 1 he watches 5 and sees no one visit 5.

On night 2 he catches the Godfather visiting the player that died to Mafia and claims it right away.

The Godfather gets voted up and then leaves the game, ending the day.

On night 3 he watches 1 and sees no one visit 1.

On day 4 he claims that 1 and 5 are clean, despite him being lookout, NOT detective.

It is possible that he misunderstood how Lookout works, although it's unlikely given that he's played 61 games. And when taken in conjunction with his chat log and last will, it seems to just be Griefing.

kittens was killed night 1 before he had the chance to say much more than this

EatGauss's last will:

Spoiler : Last Will :

nigger nigger bigger nigger 5 n1 clean n2 6 n3 1

Spoiler : Chat Log :

00:06 Eatgauss: wtf is k pop
00:08 Eatgauss: wtf is k pop
00:14 Eatgauss: am i a nigger?
00:25 Eatgauss: theme is harry potter
00:30 kittens : repick
00:45 Eatgauss: -hagrid
01:11 Eatgauss: gay save
01:17 Eatgauss: wtf is k pop precious?
01:20 Eatgauss: YOURE A WIZARD HARRY
01:28 kittens : ey guys what is reggiN spelled backwards
01:31 Eatgauss: A BLOODY GOOD ONE AT THAT
01:36 kittens : ll give you a hint
01:38 kittens : ts a type of monkey
01:48 kittens : lw
01:51 Eatgauss: -lw
02:57 Eatgauss: this music sucks
03:00 Eatgauss: im ffing
03:10 Eatgauss: ok
03:17 Eatgauss: thats unbreable
03:52 Eatgauss: r u bruno
03:58 Eatgauss: why did he tell us
04:01 Eatgauss: we need an umbrella
04:12 Eatgauss: lynh bruno
04:15 Eatgauss: hes a rapist
04:16 Eatgauss: mexican
04:52 Eatgauss: inno
04:56 Eatgauss: gay nigger mexican
05:00 Eatgauss: but a inno gay nigger exican
05:21 Eatgauss: -skip
05:44 Eatgauss: -lw
05:49 Eatgauss: -lw
06:48 Eatgauss: 15 visited 6
07:15 Eatgauss: no 1 is also mafia
07:17 Eatgauss: if im 8 idk
07:30 Eatgauss: we need reveals
07:32 Eatgauss: tonight
08:00 Eatgauss: nigger snape
08:55 Eatgauss: doc
08:57 Eatgauss: on me
09:12 Eatgauss: -lw
10:06 Eatgauss: i got audited
10:06 Eatgauss: audited
10:06 Eatgauss: i got audited
10:06 Eatgauss: NIGGER
10:06 Eatgauss: JEW
10:10 Eatgauss: i got i got auditred
10:14 Eatgauss: i r citizn
10:20 Eatgauss: 1 and 5 are c;ean
10:27 Eatgauss: so 1,5, 8 and 14 clear
10:34 Eatgauss: \getm 13
10:36 Eatgauss: always sus
11:25 Eatgauss: 8 and 13 sus
11:37 Eatgauss: stfu
11:39 Eatgauss: nigger
13:23 Eatgauss: yea right
13:28 Eatgauss: ur mafia 8
13:31 Eatgauss: i aint dumb
13:36 Eatgauss: 8 13 mafia
14:42 Eatgauss: i still have vest
14:45 Eatgauss: get 13 next
15:23 Eatgauss: doc on 1 im vesting tonight, get 13 next
15:25 Eatgauss: doc on 1
15:31 Eatgauss: doc on 1 im vesting tonight get 13 next
15:46 Eatgauss: gg
15:48 Eatgauss: gg
15:49 Eatgauss: 1
15:52 Eatgauss: is bad
17:05 Eatgauss: how did i throw
17:10 Eatgauss: 4 ppl voted guilty on 8
17:16 Eatgauss: those 4 are also throwers
17:17 Eatgauss: witb logic
17:21 Eatgauss: u fucking inbreded monkeys
17:42 Eatgauss: how so
17:51 Eatgauss: just saying
17:54 Eatgauss: dont speak logic
17:56 Eatgauss: if you dont use it
17:58 Eatgauss: you feeling ape
18:00 Eatgauss: go kys
18:04 Eatgauss: and eat a banana
18:44 Eatgauss: niggers
18:46 Eatgauss: in paris
19:11 Eatgauss: so
19:13 Eatgauss: idgaf
19:16 Eatgauss: i solo voted him up
19:18 Eatgauss: and guiltied?
19:19 Eatgauss: U APE
19:20 Eatgauss: DIE
19:22 Eatgauss: MONKEY

Player Offenses
Eatgauss
Other
Griefing

kittens
Other

Previous Offenses
Eatgauss
None

kittens
Leave-Train (On-Hold May 2016)
Griefing (WLx2 July 2016)
Role-Quitting (WLx2 October 2016)
Reactionary Gamethrowing (WLx4 September 2017)
Intentional Gamethrowing (WLx4 January 2018)
Possible Hacking (WLx2 December 2018)
Lag-Cheating (WLx4 February 2020)
Leave-Train (BLx2 February 2020)
Other (BLx4 (June 2021))
Other (+2xBL (Racism June 2021))
Other (Pending April 2022)

Recommended Action
Eatgauss WLx2

Every single time I've seen kittens in a report, even if he wasn't reported directly, he without fail can be added on for rule violations as well. He's not going to change, and given that there is also another outstanding report against kittens processed by Auwt, I'd recommend just Permabanning him.
kittens Permaban


Additional Notes
Thank you for taking the time to submit this report in your effort to make the community a better place

[COLOR="#FFF0f5"][B][U]SC ID VERIFICATION[/U][/B][/COLOR]
[B]ZHENGSENMAO[/B] 1-S2-1-12260865 [color=#00ff00]Correct[/color]

[color="#fff0f5"][u][b]Respective Hotkeys[/b][/u][/color]
4

[B][U][COLOR="#FFF0F5"]Summary[/COLOR][/U][/B]
ZHENGSENMAO rolls [COLOR="#6969bb"]Deceiver[/COLOR].
Within the first few seconds of Day 1 he outs the entire triad.

He leaves a last will on night 1:
[SPOILER=Last Will]
FUCK YOU FAGGOT NIGGER CUNT
[/SPOILER]

On Day 2 he repeatedly outs the exact triad team members. Triad proceeds to lose their entire team immediately after.

[B][U][COLOR="#FFF0F5"]Player Offenses[/COLOR][/U][/B]
[COLOR="#FF8C00"]Intentional Gamethrowing[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#B22222"]Ban Evasion[/COLOR]

[B][U][COLOR="#FFF0F5"]Previous Offenses[/COLOR][/U][/B]
[COLOR="#D3D3D3"]None[/COLOR]

[B][U][COLOR="#FFF0F5"]Recommended Action[/COLOR][/U][/B]
This decision is influenced by the report I just filed myself against this player in which he very blatantly game threw there as well.

The way he is playing is not how normal people play, he's not here to play, he's just here to ruin the game for others. As such I believe this is a smurf and should be permabanned.

[COLOR="#B22222"]Permaban[/COLOR]

[B][U][COLOR="#FFF0F5"]Additional Notes[/COLOR][/U][/B]
Thank you for taking the time to submit this report in your effort to make the community a better place :)

SC ID VERIFICATION
ZHENGSENMAO 1-S2-1-12260865 Correct

Respective Hotkeys
4

Summary
ZHENGSENMAO rolls Deceiver.
Within the first few seconds of Day 1 he outs the entire triad.

He leaves a last will on night 1:

Spoiler : Last Will :

FUCK YOU FAGGOT NIGGER CUNT

On Day 2 he repeatedly outs the exact triad team members. Triad proceeds to lose their entire team immediately after.

Player Offenses
Intentional Gamethrowing
Ban Evasion

Previous Offenses
None

Recommended Action
This decision is influenced by the report I just filed myself against this player in which he very blatantly game threw there as well.

The way he is playing is not how normal people play, he's not here to play, he's just here to ruin the game for others. As such I believe this is a smurf and should be permabanned.

Permaban

Additional Notes
Thank you for taking the time to submit this report in your effort to make the community a better place