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  1. Forum:Site Discussion

    Thread:Culture of moderation

    Thread Author:Helz

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: Culture of moderation◄◄

    I had a conversation with Lag about it last night although it became apparent to me that such patterns were much more prevalent in Arcade moderation than it FM (and to be clear I did not make this topic because of any recent FM moderation actions.)

    Independent of results this is just poking at the thought process of whats considered when deciding on punishments. The individuals history is of great pertinence in line with prior actions being the greatest predictor of future actions to protect the community as well as to rehabilitate the individual. At some point when I have time I have been considering writing up a piece on ethical considerations of moderation derived from legal concepts but this is one substantial aspect of accepted thought process.

    In a certain discord channel I have grown very fond of I recently poked at another of understanding individuals intentions behind their actions but I think the person I poked on it did not want to touch the subject when I asked them what other way they feel things should be handled which was disappointing.
  2. ►►Re: Critical Race Theory (CRT) and it's place in American race-relations.◄◄

    Sorry for yet another necro but for those interested this is probably the end point of my chasing this rabbit.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StTilZ9WQYM

    Dr Sheena Mason has truckloads of great takes on the issue and breaks down the nonsense I have been fumbling about and fucking up for years. The view of eliminating the subject also makes a lot of sense to me in multiple respects and I love that she frames the issue in a way that addresses the ideology behind it. More and more I find that is what I am actually getting at in my rambling ways..
  3. Forum:Site Discussion

    Thread:Culture of moderation

    Thread Author:Helz

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Culture of moderation◄◄

    Sometimes I think about entropy. How structures slowly devolve and how this applies to social structures and their managment.

    Something that I found particularly elegant about SC2's punishment system was the principle that punishments would be treated in ratio to frequency. That there was a designated time line for escalation.

    But this was also the most neglected concept when I was Warden. It was probably near my end that I realized that the neglect of this concept created a structure that would slowly alienate our player base. I very poorly addressed this issue and I have no idea if its still a breach of the original design for moderation.

    Something I have been considering lately is how that pattern structures the growth of a forum. It may be worth considering if community growth is limited by such a structure or if its ethical to escalate punishments without regard to the growth that comes with time. I am a little lost right now between the global community as a super structure in my mind but I felt like this was worth a conversation.
  4. Forum:Site Discussion

    Thread:Retirement

    Thread Author:Voss

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: Retirement◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    I'm actually re-retiring.
    I sometimes wonder if Mafia is a life sentence.

    I hope you find the time in your life that you are looking for.
  5. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Purpose of neopronouns?

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: Purpose of neopronouns?◄◄

    I think a large portion of the optics of this issue comes from a very small but very vocal portion of the population. I am not going to pretend to understand the logic behind the titles and as Oops said- I have never actually seen someone get offended and push some weird pronoun although I have seen truckloads of pushing the idea of being pronoun considerate.
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    ►►Re: Bitcoin is fucking dumb and useless◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    I am honestly considering starting an NFT-based grift because I think people who are so GOOFY that they believe that NFTs are good deserve to get scammed for all their money.
    /sign : )
  7. Forum:News

    Thread:The Donor Thank-You Thread!

    Thread Author:Dark.Revenant

    Post Author:Helz

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    Sticky: ►►Re: The Donor Thank-You Thread!◄◄

    I think at some point I consolidated multiple donor lists in a staff section including more things than are on this list. Might be worth some copy-pasta to the the public thread
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    ►►Re: How can one be against philosophy◄◄

    I had some fun with a concept like this earlier this week. Helped a friend of mine with a paper she had to write for her political science degree. She was given a chapter from Paul Feyerbend's 'Against method' essentially debating the ideology of science being the end-all of discovery and if reasoning had a place in furthering science.

    There were very valid points such as Galileo Galilei figuring out that the planets orbited the sun with reasoning as opposed to the scientific method and the fact that science itself was created from reasoning making it silly to dismiss reasoning as a valid form of progression in the structure it created.

    I think its of note that a PhD is literally a doctorate in philosophy in a field. Its the mainstay of the highest level of academics even in straight deductive fields such as mathematics for a reason. Examining the potential of 'what could be' allows us to innovate and move past where we are now even if such growth is seen as intellectual masterbation.

    One example that comes to mind is William Shockley. Brilliant level of genius who was able to work outside established structures and do whatever he felt like because he was so good. The guy was a monster of a mind at bell labs (which really is saying something) but he was so good he would chase whatever tangents he fancied at the time even spending time designing and riding unicycles up and down the halls. People had no understanding of why he did the things he did and most would look at him as more of an artist than a scientist. Regardless his mental gymnastics helped create the transistors and foundation of information theory that allows me to type this message.

    I think a defining moment in my life was when I read about Kants deterministic view of innovation. Looking at mental thought as a closed loop system in which you are only able to think in terms of what you have already thought and the stimulus around you. I personally believe I am able to come up with new ways of looking at things simply because I work my mind in weird ways and dive into philosophy. It gives me that external stimulus I need to draw different conclusions from the same situations we all look at which is a very basic foundation of education as seen in the PhD programs.
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    ►►Re: Consequences of extreme automation◄◄

    I feel like under an automated market you would need to name it something new. Communism is more like socialism with the government dictating production as well as distribution of production which does not fit imo.

    I do not think automation could ever fully eliminate jobs. Networking and personal relationships are a huge part of business and I don't see how you could fully replace that with AI's and robots. You will always still have people in Sales, HR and management on some level and theoretically if you did have a 100% automated company nobody would be out there to advocate for legislation in its favor so I bet 'people run' companies would take advantage of it and the populous would favor taxing the hell out of it.

    Then there is the aspect of creativity. Sure there are advanced AI's out there that can design more efficient parts like this wall section for an airplane ( https://cdn.redshift.autodesk.com/20...sidebyside.jpg ) but most respects of innovation and art will always be human. Take it to the extreme and markets will always exist for 'people made stuff.' Just think of the bullshit 'handmade Amish furniture' people pay for just because they assume its hand made.

    Then you will need people to be there to fix and program the machines. One sci-fi concept I have always been interested in is the AI singularity where computers gain autonomy in designing computers which has many tangents. The most famous would probably be what's outlined in the terminator story line. But would that be so bad? Humans are fucking incompetent on the macro level and incapable of addressing problems proactively more than a few years ahead. We probably won't suffer too much from this but fast forward a few generations and I bet they will be looking back at our lives now as some golden age. I, Robot tackled some aspects of that problem.

    Another thing that comes to mind is what would happen to people if they did not need to work. People who retire often die within 10 years of quitting work. I can speak from personal experience for both myself as well as the people I work with that when you don't have that 'reason' to get out of bed in the morning and some level of structure in your life most people fall apart.

    Just a few things that come to mind. I would be very curious about how an automated market would interact with a human-driven government. Those dynamics would be very interesting to consider.
  10. ►►Re: What if every team was named after the most abundantly populated animal in their geographical ar◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeacesGhost View Post
    You know what would be a better idea? Naming teams based on that cities' most searched keyword on PornHub.

    NSFW: https://cs.phncdn.com/insights-stati...e-searches.png
    AL EAST

    Tampa Bay Trumpers (Trump #1)

    Boston Students (College)

    New York Footjobbers (Footjob #1)

    Toronto Lesbians

    Baltimore Backshots (Cumbacks)

    AL CENTRAL

    Chicago THOTs

    Cleveland Cougars (Cougars #1)

    Detroit Facesitters (Facesitting)

    Kansas City Chubbies (Chubby)

    Minnesota POVs

    AL WEST

    Houston Sexmex (Sexmex #1)

    Seattle DPers (Double Penetration)

    Oakland Swaggers (Swag #1)

    Los Angeles Hatefuckers (Swag #2)

    Texas Latina Princesses (Sexmex #2)

    NL EAST

    Atlanta Ticklers (Tickling)

    Philadelphia Fat Asses (Fat Ass #1)

    New York Feet Appreciators (Footjob #2)

    Miami Trumpers (Trump #2)

    Washington Voters

    NL CENTRAL

    Milwaukee Bondages

    St. Louis Unplanned Parents (Accidental Creampie)

    Cincinnati Cougars (Cougars #2)

    Chicago THOTs

    Pittsburgh Big Booties (Fat Ass #2)

    NL WEST

    San Francisco Brutal Lovers (Swag #3)

    Los Angeles Roughriders (Swag #4)

    San Diego Conquistadors (Swag #5)

    Colorado Anus Lovers (Tushy)

    Arizona Navajos
    This message was halarious and I thank you for it
  11. Forum:Narrator Discussion

    Thread:Closing down

    Thread Author:Voss

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: Closing down◄◄

    I know how hard it is to walk away from a long term project you care about and how it feels to force yourself to push on working on it when it costs you moments in life. I hope this decision brings you enjoyment and if it matters I think what you did do was huge. I can not imagine how many hours you poured into it all but it’s good to see you putting yourself first.
  12. Forum:Site Discussion

    Thread:I don't like this new policy change tbh

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: I don't like this new policy change tbh◄◄

    Lots of good points. And to be fair I only made the argument I did because it tickled my brain and I felt like it could make for an interesting discussion.

    I suppose as pointed out the question has to be clarified. When saying 1+1=2 do the numbers refer to an abstract designation of quantity or are they talking about 2 physical things? And past that even if they are physical things the most prominent model of quantum physics (to my very limited understanding) is string theory and its variations which speaks to the smallest particles being 2 dimensional strings so with that thought cutting up the 3 dimensional sphere would invalidate my entire line of thinking even if we were to say that the 1s refers to real physical objects.

    Yxb also gave me some brain candy I had never considered in refuards to how to pick apart this problem. I do love a good rabbit hole.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls (10-20P) Signups◄◄

    Sorry, there’s just no way for me to play when working on the rig.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls (10-20P) Signups◄◄

    I will replace in or play depending on the timeline.
    I am a ghost for the next 2 or 3 weeks but I love this game concept
  15. Forum:Site Discussion

    Thread:I don't like this new policy change tbh

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: I don't like this new policy change tbh◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    Through the use of the Axiom of Choice, we can cut a sphere into finitely many pieces that can be rearranged and put back together as two balls, yes. However, this does not in any way imply 1+1>4. The difference is you're taking an infinite set of points (the points of a sphere), cutting them up in some fucked way and rearranging them to make two infinite sets that are the same as the prior set, rather than finding a way to literally make one single item into two.
    I did not expect to go down this rabbit hole yet again. But I very much enjoy doing so (made a small edit in red to rephrase my argument correctly). One lesson I have been chewing on for the last month or so is how ideology is the enemy of free thinking. With that in mind I feel like I can phrase this argument differently than I ever have before.

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    That, of course, still may not sound logical - like you're taking something of 1 volume and producing something with 2 volume. But the key thing to note is that these smaller pieces are unmeasurable. That effectively means it's not possible to apply traditional notions of volume or mass to these broken up pieces. Axiom of Choice gives us the power to make constructions that can't exist in reality, and one type of construction is these weird, fractal-y fucked up partitions that lack a well defined notion of volume.
    The fact you see them as unmeasurable does not mean that they are. Sure we are diving deep into the theoretical side of math but we are very ignorant of our reality. For example- What is 1 divided by 3? Unmeasurable. Take that same number in a number scale of twelve and what is a third of a foot? 4". Change the model from base 10 to base 12 and it can be solved perfectly.

    Sure, the way we use math right now we can not explain this proof but it is a proof and the only way to invalidate it is to invalidate math itself. My argument here is just a slightly more complex version of my response to Oops but with much deeper reasoning. Consider my premise that ideology is the enemy of free thinking. What we have to dismantle here is the idea that math as we understand it is encompassing.

    Think about the concept of 0. It took a long time to come up with and its implications were huge. I am sure people then thought they understood math but something so simple was a huge mind bend to them. So why should we think we are different? We understand reality in 3 dimensions with general exploration of the potentials of 4 dimensions but we have no clue how many there are. We understand the periodic table of elements as we have discovered and measured it and we have even stretched it pretty far creating things in labs that did not exist naturally but who is to say we do not understand the equivalent of the concept of 0 when it comes to chemistry when we have little understanding about 95 - 27% of matter that exists as 'dark matter.'

    Then theres the two accepted models of physics from Newtonian to Quantum which do not seem to line up. Both seem valid although the Quantum is newer and less understood. Diving into it something as simple as the exact position of a particle is considered unmeasurable. Schrodinger's cat was considered blathering nonsense until Quantum physics was accepted so it brings up a question of where you want to draw a line. Its cute to say its as simple as 1+1=2 but that is not anywhere close to the whole story and we are honestly so ignorant of our ignorance its tough to accept what 'could be.'

    I personally hope there is some parallel between wavelengths of particles and cognitive connections so science is validated but everything in me tells me we are hardly scratching the surface of what we don't know. For the most basic answer I would point out some base level of quantum physics could be the equivalent of what 0 once was.

    The understanding of our ignorance is the beginning of knowledge.
  16. Forum:Site Discussion

    Thread:I don't like this new policy change tbh

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: I don't like this new policy change tbh◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    I am firmly of the belief that math is abstract nonsense that lines up with reality sometimes. Hence, 1+1=2 because that is what we have defined it to be.
    We have also defined complex mathematical concepts to be every much as valid as simple mathematical concepts (such as 1+1=2) so invalidating math as abstract nonsense and then referencing math is a severe contradiction. We must either question the nature of mathematics at its core or disregard it entirely- but in either situation 1+1=2 is no longer an acceptable premise with that reasoning.
  17. Forum:Site Discussion

    Thread:I don't like this new policy change tbh

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: I don't like this new policy change tbh◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by oops_ur_dead View Post
    I was ready to elaborate on my stance. I said my mind won't be changed which was absolutely true, same how nobody will change my mind on 1+1=2.
    I duno. Banach–Tarski paradox strongly suggests that 1+0= >2. I could regurgitate the proof to you or you could see it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banach...h_of_the_proof but either way there is a very substantial argument that 1+1 does not equal 2 assuming mathematics is a language that reflects reality and is not just abstract nonsense that just lines up well (although thats a debate in itself)
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    ►►Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?◄◄

    I couldn't answer some of those questions. Took a practice test and I got 14 out of 20 right. https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/ci...tice-test-2008 for those interested (although I have huge gaps in my knowledge most Americans probably don't)

    There are tons of questions I just do not understand the point of. Asking what day you have to file taxes by? Hell yeah that matters being a citizen. Asking to name an Indian tribe that existed before America or the exact date a law was passed....? What makes someone more able to function within our society by knowing that?
    Yet things I feel like would help society function such as simply establishing a common language or knowledge of how to use the functions within society are largely ignored. "What number do you call in case of an emergency" would be an obvious example.
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    ►►Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    I disagree with your point about it requiring context. I think the Dubai requirements are bullshit, just as I think the American requirements are bullshit. I will still have a stronger opinion about the American requirements because it’s the country that I live in. I can vote on representatives to make legislature about citizenship reform. I can’t do that in Dubai. My voice on that opinion actively doesn’t matter so I do not care to voice it.
    I take more issue with Mexico. To say 'Were going to take all your shit when you die unless your a citizen' and then turn around and make it a huge pain to become a citizen.. Thats just dirty.
    But I guess the country is more honest about being corrupt than America.
  20. ►►Re: What if every team was named after the most abundantly populated animal in their geographical ar◄◄

    Honestly we have kinda gone twards nicknaming organizations that are so douche they act woke. Anyone remember the Washington Dildos?
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    ►►Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    I'm not saying everywhere else is great. I'm saying that locking down citizenship behind a paywall for a college student is stupid. It would be stupid in another country too.
    Agreed.

    I do feel like the voiced position of 'American citizenship needs reform' should be placed in context with other countries citizenship though. Its a relative question to say if 'this location is being unreasonable' and I have never herd about anyone calling out Dubai having some 500k a year minimum income requirement to become a citizen. If we are just about equality shouldn't we be advocating to allow all the poor people in India into Dubai? (Someone is going to pick up on the unspoken joke there)

    On the just dunking on America page I have no clue about that financial requirement and I have worked with quite a few immigrants as the got their citizenship through the oil field, construction and general business in the south. Maybe its new? I just duno. The thing I always talked shit about though was all the weird shit required to be an American. They had to memorize all sorts of stuff I had no idea about and I lived here a large portion of my life. I had this driller I worked with named Chris who was born in Mexico but lived in America sense he was some months old and was more American than I was in many ways but when he was working on his practice test every third question I had no fucking clue what the answer was.
    Just saying.. I duno about the 1k nonsense but when citizens of a country can not pass the requirements to become a citizen of their own country somethings kinda fucked up. (although again I don't think its fair to act like America is the worst or even unreasonably dicks about their process when you look at country's of wealth)
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    ►►Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    It also costs $1000 to become a US citizen, something that one of my classmates is dealing with currently.
    Its worth looking at the citizenship requirements of other countries when speaking about Americas problems.

    My buddy has been working on becoming a citizen in Mexico for over 10 years and having hell. He only wants to because his land holdings will revert to the government when he dies and only citizens can pass stuff down to their children.

    Not saying its not terrible but people act like America's process is so terrible while the rest of the worlds is so great.
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    ►►Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    Really the system is set up as a way to stop people from doing things such as: owning a US based business but living in a place with no income tax to get around having to pay tax on the profits you're making within the US
    I kinda feel like it failed if that was its intent. Deferral allows U.S. multinational corporations to forego taxes on profits of their foreign subsidiaries until they are paid as dividends to the U.S. parent company allowing most of our big tech companies to dodge taxes at an insane rate. Always tickles me when thats seen in contrast to how they push 'progressive' ideas and government spending like they care.
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    ►►Re: So Americans get taxed even if they leave the country?◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    There is the FEIE - Foreign Earned Income Exclusion. FEIE lets you exclude the first $108,700 you earn abroad from US taxes.

    Additionally there are Foreign Tax Credits which allow you to receive tax credits for income that is already taxed and paid to a foreign country.

    So, do Americans have to pay US taxes even if they're expats living abroad? Technically yes, but for "normal" people that amount of taxes they have to "pay" is usually $0. The system is set up in this way to prevent people that are sufficiently wealthy from obtaining foreign citizenship in a country like Qatar with no income tax, and claiming their 7 or 8 figure incomes in those countries to get around paying US income tax.

    (Not to say that tax loopholes don't exist, but like at least the absolute lowest hanging fruit of loopholes like that one don't exist)
    This is accurate. The foreign work I did in the past was tax free even when reported although I never reported over 100k.

    I also remember people signing up for re-enlistment bonuses in Iraq and Afghanistan and if their bonus was somewhere over 100k they were briefed they would be taxed.

    -edit
    I actually believe many countries have something similar although someone else would have to speak to the details.
  25. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Who was the most evil person?

    Thread Author:Helz

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: Who was the most evil person?◄◄

    It may be important to disentangle the idea of morals from sociological 'norms'

    The unwritten code of conduct for our society establishes some behaviors we should follow and some that are unacceptable but its hardly immoral to walk down the street in your underwear while its moral to wear a swim suit that covers the exact same amount of skin.

    Any objective standard of morality would need to function outside of that gap
  26. Forum:Site Discussion

    Thread:I don't like this new policy change tbh

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: I don't like this new policy change tbh◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Oops will say what he wants to say over what literally anyone wants him to say/what oops should probably say (nothing at all).
    Honesty holds value even when its someone looking you dead in the eye and telling you that you are an idiot.

    Has Rev ever been less real? I remember the time I sorted like 900 bug reports to come to a hand full that actually still existed and when I brought them up his response to some Bus Driver issue was "Fuck your BDSM orgies."
  27. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Who was the most evil person?

    Thread Author:Helz

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: Who was the most evil person?◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeacesGhost View Post
    I nominate the admins.

    Seriously, "goofy" is a legitimate slur and the Canadian sources you're asking are denying it to troll me and the admins so they can make some faux pas in Canada when they visit.

    You'd think having some college-level educated admins and from learning about actual evils that stopping discrimination is the very first action to take against marginalizing vulnerable minorities such as myself. But instead they look the other way and actually enable it just because they're not from the country where it is a slur.

    It's a joke honestly considering how Nazis have started with enabling hate against Jewish people, actively harassing them, seized their properties, forced them into ghettos, and then sent them to concentration camps to work, starve, and/or die. And these same human evils have been repeated in many years before and after that, such as the Holodomor by USSR's Stalin, the Rwandan Genocide by Hutus, and recently the genocide of Muslims in Burma by Aung San Suu Kyi and her violent buddhists.

    What's next? Are the admins going to invade Canada and seize my properties like the evil communists they are?
    There is an issue in the community you are talking about. Might be worth making a separate thread on if you want to have a conversation about ethical moderation or the considerations that should govern decisions. I feel like making that 'this' is just going to destroy a topic that means quite a bit to me and entangle it with video game politic nonsense I do care about but needs to be handled separate from this subject.
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    ►►Re: Subjective vs Objective morality◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    I'm quite certain we've watched the same debate on YouTube, lol. Otherwise this's a REMARKABLE conjecture to make to say the least..

    Which is great. This means you'll fill in my ~1h30m gap that I missed due to falling asleep.
    I would like a link to it. My thoughts there are entirely original although I long ago realized I’m just reinventing the wheel most of the time
  29. Forum:Site Discussion

    Thread:I don't like this new policy change tbh

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: I don't like this new policy change tbh◄◄

    For what it’s worth Mag, I do think your treated differently. But I also think there is a sort of feedback loop involved.
    Someone says something and you anticipate hostility so you treat it as hostile even if it’s not which creates hostility.
    You say something to someone you don’t get along with in good faith but they see hostility and treat it as such creating hostility.
    Moderators expect toxic interactions with you so they treat comments as toxic even if they are not.

    Confirmation bias is a bitch. It effects us all and it hurts our personal interactions and relationships. I think for years I didn’t get along with oops because I just could not understand the reasoning for his voice in opposition to mine or understand it was simply a genuine opinion. Fast forward like 10 fucking years and I respect his words over most here simply because I have come to understand he is genuine and will say what I need to hear over what I want to hear.

    That said, I do think you have a point that there is bias against you but I also think you can take a moment to understand that bias and learn to interact better within a community.
    Sure this is some video game website but mafia and the macro social interactions hold value well outside of this game or this website.

    Maybe my words will hold value to you?
    Or maybe I’m seen as part of the institution you now hate..
  30. Forum:Site Discussion

    Thread:I don't like this new policy change tbh

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:Helz

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    ►►Re: I don't like this new policy change tbh◄◄

    I like the idea of moderating individuals more than topics. A part of me was sad when I saw the topic was closed and I felt like the conversation was just starting in some regards.

    Its upsetting to me when the Admins mess with my secret master plan to corrupt everyone on the site and seduce them to the dark side : (
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    ►►Re: Subjective vs Objective morality◄◄

    I feel like this could certainly have its own topic. I have a lot of thoughts but want to take time posting them so I don't end up rambling like a blathering idiot as I seem to do when I rush posts.

    I will say off the bat that the 'perspective' you are arguing from as well as well as the model of reality you believe in when discussing the issue.

    For example: Objective Morality may be different when considering the perspective of an individual vs the perspective of life on the planet or humans as a species. And a Fatalist is going to have a very different view from a Nihilist.
  32. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Who was the most evil person?

    Thread Author:Helz

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
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    ►►Re: Who was the most evil person?◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    The fact of the matter is, we can argue till the sun dies, because you will never convince someone to change their ‘moral code’, if there is such a thing. Morality is INBORN. It’s that feeling you get when something immoral happens or something very moral. People buy self help books because they want to change their lifestyle and these books really don’t help at all. You think reasoning about your morality will, when a book and training programs don’t? They won’t lol.

    All the small differences we get in ‘morality’ arise from different interpretations of EVENTS, not from laws. The laws are the same. That is why you sometimes have different motivations, because you don’t know how to interpret a given scenario. There is some feedback from your own morality when you take an action that may be immoral because you don’t know if the action you took is correct. But that doesn’t mean that morality isn’t ultimately just... you know, in your head. Specifically INBORN. Its like the ability to see.

    And yeah nobody will ever follow these moral codes you just espoused, not internally, anyway. Sure I can come up with utilitarianism and follow it to a T, but is that really what I believe? NO! It’s just a formalism that works in certain cases, and not in others.
    We may have to agree to disagree here. I think and personally experienced that when I took the time to study the philosophy and ethics of morality it had a real impact on how I thought. I went from mindlessly doing whatever I felt was right to really considering the logic behind why it should or should not be considered right. If nothing else realizing actions taken that are not in the interest of you and your social group are not inherently 'immoral' is a simple belief that would take great steps towards dismantling many forms of ideology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    And aside from this, people have sometimes other motivations that drive them, not just moral ones. Are you sure you are not guilty of hubris when stating you argued things you knew to be wrong? That’s the speck of hubris if I ever saw one lol
    Maybe. But I was arguing and doing things I believed to be right even if I did not like them which I think you unintentionally misrepresented in that statement.

    I would also point out I believe morals and motivations are two very separate things. I am 'motivated' by self interest to steal money from someone but my 'morals' are in contrast to that motivation. I am then 'motivated' not to steal that money because of the consequences of doing so if I was caught but there is nothing 'moral' about that drive for self interest.

    Sure they both play into making a choice but the fact driving factors outside of morals exist does not invalidate ethics. It simply points out that the decision making process humans use is not purely built on ethics or morals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Have you ever considered that labelling your beliefs as ‘complex’ might be seen as pretentious? :P
    Btw, I see no need for ‘complex beliefs’ when a simpler one would do better.
    Im sure it could be seen as pretentious although the fact I actively poke holes in my reasoning and point out my own hypocrisy speaks very strongly against any desire for my thoughts to be seen as something more profound or grandiose than they are. And when speaking about a subject as complex as the driving factors that govern a persons moral compass I think the complexity of a position is intrinsic to the subject itself.

    Why do you feel a simplistic view is better? How do you feel I could possibly describe my moral driving factors with a label?
  33. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Who was the most evil person?

    Thread Author:Helz

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
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    ►►Re: Who was the most evil person?◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    Helz if you were to label your meta-ethical doctrine, where would you fall?
    Labels are kinda rough. Whatever that human drive to simplify complex beliefs and put them into a category is just kinda unnatural to me.

    Spoiler : Rambling and semi off topic :
    Im certainly lean more twards Deontology than Consequentialism. My previous response to what MM said makes that pretty clear. I find the idea of focusing on results absurd because it puts the serial killer who rapes and murders for his hedonistic desire on the same ethical footing with the aircraft mechanic who failed to catch a problem with an engine killing people on a flight. Thats just insane to me.

    In contrast I am somewhat altruistic. I try to measure my impact on others lives by if they were better off for having had me in their life. Its not very healthy and I am unsure if thats just the main way I validate myself but there are certainly times I struggle between having meant well but with poor end results in regards to an individual.

    I embrace Kants Categorical Imperative. Especially the side of treating others as having intrinsic value and not as a means to achieve an end. Transactional relationships have always disgusted me and its honestly why I moved out of Austin. That 'culture' was becoming more and more like that LA attitude with superficial social interactions and people using etch other for advantage.

    On the large scale I certainly argue for Utilitarianism. One of the largest problems I have with society is how its geared to benefit the 'few at the top' to the determent of the majority. One point that caught me recently was how we fight 'socialist' programs that would benefit the masses at great cost yet we bail out faceless corporations regularly at equal or greater cost.

    I could probably keep rambling but I suppose my lack of ability to pick a label is partially due to the nature of labels but also partially due to how I somehow function on principal but with a bunch of contradictory beliefs depending on the situation. A part of me thinks people need a greater understanding of ethics so they can live in line with their morals but another part feels the deeper you dive into that rabbit hole the more ethical dilemmas you run into..
  34. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Who was the most evil person?

    Thread Author:Helz

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    121
    Views
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    ►►Re: Who was the most evil person?◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Is evil really just based on the results, though? We're talking about people who had the power to commit horrible things on a very large scale, but that doesn't mean others wouldn't have done worse if they had the power to do so.
    This is a very valid point. Why isn't the serial killer who rapes and murders to embrace his own hedonistic pleasure worse morally than the dictator that kills large amounts of people because he believes its in the best interest of their society? If the intention behind the action defines the morality of the action than just focusing on results takes a very narrow view of morality. Such principals are well founded within structures of law establishing very different treatment for someone who accidentally and negligently kills someone (manslaughter) vs the person who sat around and plotted the death of someone (first degree murder.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Thing is, its not my definition, and its not even a definition at all. It is a literal description of what we find evil, and what we find to be evil is what we are repulsed by morally. We ALL have the same idea of what is evil and what is not. Sure, we can argue about utilitarianism and whatnot forever, but nobody actually follows those moral codes internally lol. They’re just tools for thinking and reasoning about morality. Nothing more.
    I disagree and I think this belief is you projecting the way you think onto how you believe others think. There have been plenty of times in my life I have felt obligated to argue a point I disliked or take an action I really didn't want to on principal based on my ethics. Its frequently outlined in stories as the 'evil mad scientist' doing unspeakable things for a greater good others don't understand while the idealistic hero steps in arguing the surface level 'This action is independently bad so stop.' For real life implications just look into accounts of how Immanuel Kant lived vs Jeremy Bentham. Kant in particular functioned radically on principal for the individual to an extreme while Bentham focused more on the large scale of humanity and society and what would be appropriate in governing a populous.
  35. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Who was the most evil person?

    Thread Author:Helz

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    121
    Views
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    ►►Re: Who was the most evil person?◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    On the Hitler part - I think he could have won the war easily if he used Jews as a resource instead. I believe the more objective conclusion from that is that he's intents weren't so pure as he led to believe?
    Im not sure on that. For him to win he really needed to either conquer the Russia front or never fight them in the first place. Historians have argued for quite some time if he was an idiot for taking on Russia or if it was simply a preemptive strike given Russia was building up troops at the border. We like to credit ourselves with beating the Nazi's but imo Russia won WW2 both by wrecking Germany and Japan..

    To my point its not so much about Hitler as it is the nature of evil. The same could be said for Stalin or Mao Zedong while such thinking could argue a simple murderer who caused a tiny fraction of the suffering they did as less moral.
  36. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Who was the most evil person?

    Thread Author:Helz

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    121
    Views
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    ►►Re: Who was the most evil person?◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Dog owners are modern day slave holders and should be purged from our genome.
    I had a pretty funny conversation a year or so back about the ethics of owning dogs. They argued that service animals are a form of slavery and I pointed out that 'pet owners' are basically servants to their pets. If I had a person wash me, feed me and open doors for me I do not think I would look at them as my 'owner' but its all a question of perspective.

    Im kinda surprised that while conversation on evil is about it being subjective conversation about 'who' was evil is centered around deathcounts and such. If Hitler's actions were to protect his people could it be said that he was more moral than many serial killers? Is a hedonistic motivation to the determent of others objective evil or do results matter more than intentions?
  37. Forum:Site Discussion

    Thread:Ruling on "Goofy"

    Thread Author:Voss

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
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    ►►Re: Ruling on "Goofy"◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    Again, one last symbol of integrity because that's what I stand for. I only reported twice and they are legitimate slurs against Canadians.

    I better not see your Texas ass up here or I'll show you a better way to barbecue your meats and humble your foolishness.

    Really out for dis time.
    Lol. Im down.

    Here is my current process:
    Sea salt the steaks 1 day prior and leave them in the fridge.
    10 Hours prior to cooking season (usually some blend of Worcestershire sauce and garlic)
    Vacuum seal steaks and cook on a Sous Vide cooker (hits exact temperature without loosing any flavor)
    While cooking steaks fire up grill for sides and such
    Remove steaks from Sous Vide and sear on grill (about 1 minute each side, seals everything in and gives that grilled texture)
    Let steaks rest while dishing out the grub

    I have done lots of things with my meat but this beats smoking, grilling it or cooking it in an oven and it is honestly much easier. The texture comes out crazy perfect and you can cook your steaks to the very exact temperature you want without all those juices that hold the flavor falling into your grill. Close second would be literally digging a hole, burring the meat wrapped in foil in a bed of coals (under and over.)

    If you got something better than that I would love to get edjamacated on it : )
  38. Forum:Site Discussion

    Thread:Ruling on "Goofy"

    Thread Author:Voss

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    24
    Views
    853

    ►►Re: Ruling on "Goofy"◄◄

    If the intention behind the action defines the morality of the action I think its more of a question of if his intention was to spam report functions than what word or what the issue is..

    I have too little understanding of site moderation and the situation to have any opinion though.
  39. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Who was the most evil person?

    Thread Author:Helz

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    121
    Views
    2,302

    ►►Who was the most evil person?◄◄

    Something I have been digging into for quite a few years is the nature of evil but it did lead me to a question. Who is the most evil person in history and more importantly why?

    I am sure Hitler, Stalin, Columbus, Mao Zedong and Gangis Khan can easily be argued but I am specifically curious to hear 'why' and I think it could make for an interesting discussion into the nature of evil.
  40. Forum:Forum Mafia Discussion

    Thread:QuickTopic is shutting down

    Thread Author:Lag

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    21
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    581

    ►►Re: QuickTopic is shutting down◄◄

    I dont really see this as a big issue. Anon chats can be hosted anywhere. You could simply make accounts on any free game server if you wanted to do it ghetto and logging the chat is as simple as copy/paste into the thread post game. With few exceptions Anon chats are not often 'active' anyways.
  41. Replies
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    ►►Re: Creating opportunities for youth◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by MaShY View Post
    Many K-12 schools have something called a "Facilities Use Request." Sometimes it's on their website (buried), sometimes you have to email the business department (addr should be available online).

    What those give you are a place to meet other than a public park: You can reserve a school's soccer field, gym, etc. All you have to do is fill out a form that you won't leave any trash/etc. The nicer/bigger the facility, the less likely they'll grant use w/o history.

    It's an option if you want a place to meet that's familiar to kids. If you get someone like Lions or Rotary to contribute some cheap materials, your group can do the install, and then you'll have an in in the future.
    I appreciate the info. When digging through the NPO listings I did come across Lions.

    The conversation that started this was literally about how the youth in Killeen too often don’t have access to athletic programs on a basic level.
  42. Replies
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    ►►Re: Sc2 Mafia Private Lobby with friends.◄◄

    Another option is to host it on the ‘unmoderated’ version.
    You could also create the accounts yourself and put in for their white lists to start the process with less coordination.

    I should also point out there’s a minimum number of players required which may prevent what your trying to do. If you very specifically want a private lobby other viable options exist such as our narrator, epic mafia or town of Salem which wouldn’t require them downloading the client. And if they are real life friends you can play mafia/werewolf in person or through a chat program like Skype.

    Best of luck with what your trying to accomplish. I hope this helps.
  43. Replies
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    ►►Creating opportunities for youth◄◄

    Over the years I have had a passion for enabling people to accomplish things in life. I have recently started dating a girl that shares that passion and I have been reaching out to people for ideas and advice on what could be effective.

    A lot of my focus is on things that create opportunities long term without consistency requiring money and time. One basic thing I have settled on is using my ability in construction to repair the basketball goals in a local park.

    A good portion of what I am looking at gets into networking within local government which I have little experience in but if anyone has experience working with that, NPO’s or even just ideas I would appreciate any thoughts.
  44. Replies
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    ►►Re: Non-leading title about speech◄◄

    I like this sites take on free speech.

    It’s very tolerant while encouraging that there is a ‘correct place’ for different things and is respectful of people’s views when presented in good faith. Social pressures are used more than powers/punishments to resolve issues and when things go too far topics are simply closed.
  45. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Withdrawal from Afghanistan

    Thread Author:yzb25

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
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    1,911

    ►►Re: Withdrawal from Afghanistan◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    Blame Donald Rumsfeld for somehow convincing POTUS Bush Jr. to tangent into Iraq when their primary focus should've been Afghanistan from the get-go.

    Another example of failed American leadership fucking shit up for the rest of us non-Americans trying to live our own lives peacefully.
    I’m starting to feel like ‘American’ and ‘leadership’ do not belong next to etchother in context with politicians. It’s getting to the point of how we joke about the term ‘government intelligence’
  46. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:I am not posting again for a month

    Thread Author:Oberon

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    17
    Views
    901

    ►►Re: I am not posting again for a month◄◄

    I kinda think he is just saying something ugly to bait a rise out of people. Kinda feels like that mentality where people want to be shitty towards someone but they want to do it from a soap box.
  47. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:I am not posting again for a month

    Thread Author:Oberon

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    17
    Views
    901

    ►►Re: I am not posting again for a month◄◄

    Everyone feels a certain way about stuff. One thing I genuinely appreciate about this community is that it challenges the way I think while also being tolerant of allowing me to learn when my views were questionable. I have had entire topics rambling about highly questionable stuff as I break away from what people consider 'acceptable' and try to find the truth for myself which has often put me arguing some pretty radical stuff that flirts a line of 'what is ok' but at the end of the day allowing that sort of discussion has made me grow as a person. Sometimes I look back at some of the stuff I said and feel it was so baseless and ignorant (and once that I had failed to do due diligence on my sources and was parroting some views from a source designed to promote racism) but especially after what happened to me in MU I feel that this community is unique in that respect. It actually gives a shit about what someone's intention is and it is tolerant of real open good faith discussion on contentious subjects which allows its members to grow.

    What I would say to you is that you are a very open minded individual and I would simply take advantage of the way this community enables you to sort through your beliefs. Its very difficult to challenge your own world view and humbling to say when you are wrong but being able to be humble and growing from the experience will makes us better people in multiple respects. Its much harder to do when you get constantly dog piled making the interactions more abrasive and defensive than would be productive but hindsight can still create positive motion for our future.
  48. Forum:Approved Forum Mafia Setups

    Thread:S-FM SVM (10P or 14P)

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
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    [Approved Experimental] ►►Re: S-FM SVM◄◄

    So after chatting with Ozy about it I realized something worth mentioning. This setup does something kinda profound that I have never seen before. On the most basic level in a game of Mafia the town wants to lynch people to eliminate scum and create information for hunting scum while the scum just wants to establish a majority. The 'balance' of a game is centered around player count but only because of votes. When each player has 1 its easy to quantify.

    In this setup that changes. Vote power shifts between players far beyond the existence of a mayor. But what is truly interesting is that it makes the 'balance' value of killing a player dynamic. In this game kills would not be simply eliminating a player from one side but rather a substantial shift in vote power.

    Going even deeper it creates a situation where a 'majority' could be reached without the game being a loss. Scum could acquire the majority vote (normally ending the game) but be noticed and TPR's could shift the majority back into the hands of the town the next day.

    Lynches would also have to account for the 'vote power' of the individual. Maybe you town read Helz but if the guy has 8 vote power that 10% chance he is scum becomes really scary and players would question if he is too dangerous to be kept alive.

    Figured some of this was worth pointing out. I found it super interesting to think about and this borders on transforming the game into something other than mafia on a very basic level. I have never seen a setup that actually changes the core power dynamics of how a game functions like that but I bet if someone mentioned the idea to someone like Zork something... 'unique' would happen.
  49. Forum:Approved Forum Mafia Setups

    Thread:S-FM SVM (10P or 14P)

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    20
    Views
    492

    [Approved Experimental] ►►Re: S-FM SVM◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Yesterday I thought the setup great.
    Today I think the setup is way too much, both for hosting and for playing.
    This had lots of really interesting tweeks. But it really would be a nightmare to keep track of the vote counter and the Meme is crazy strong.
  50. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Withdrawal from Afghanistan

    Thread Author:yzb25

    Post Author:Helz

    Replies
    52
    Views
    1,911

    ►►Re: Withdrawal from Afghanistan◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    Compare it to how it took the Russians 8 year to fully withdraw all their forces from the Baltic states after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    [Wiki]
    But ok those are not comparable


    It was Trump who promised that though, and Biden was just respecting that agreement.

    I'm just wondering though. Will the US now expand less tax money towards the military or will nothing change in that regard? Your medical and education bills are kinda legendary around the world ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Valid points. Trump is no better and arguably the cause of the timeline although I would point to (and took part in) the consolidation of Iraq that was well executed without any loss of life. Regardless of the timeline (and with my ignorance of politics) the 'withdraw' from Afghanistan looked like it was caused by some total panic retreat. Blame it on Biden or Trump but that never would have happened if whatever jackass politician had listened to military advice. I was not sitting in war cabinets in Iraq or Afghanistan but I am very damn confident no military commander would have willingly allowed that mess if they had half the resources they felt they needed to at least stand up for a decent fight.

    I don't think the US will spend a dollar less until this tragedy is used as an excuse to go back and restart the war machine.

    I do always like to point out how medicine and education are the only subsidized things and they are absolutely out of control in price which points to how subsidized capitalism only profits the private industries with the money to lobby while shifting the cost to the tax payer. It truly is a legendary business model for anyone who wants to generate profitable subsidization which funnels money from the tax payer to the private industry.
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