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  1. Replies
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    Sticky: ►►Re: Forum Mafia - Hosting Order and Setup Reviewing◄◄

    @Marshmallow Marshall
    Remove me from the queue plz.
    I want to disappear from everything FM related atm tbh.
  2. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Purpose of neopronouns?

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: Purpose of neopronouns?◄◄

    Ohh..
    After googling this stuff and laying all my impressions, thoughts and views out in the open for scrutiny so that people can correct me where I'm wrong - I get kicked/banned from a discord on the accusation of acting in bad faith and not actually wanting people to correct me or something like that.

    Talking to people is difficult for me, people always assume the bad.
  3. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Purpose of neopronouns?

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: Purpose of neopronouns?◄◄

    Bruh
    https://youtu.be/uYl3JVTLVHo
  4. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Purpose of neopronouns?

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: Purpose of neopronouns?◄◄

    When Oberon refused to not call Pluto a planet, instead of a dwarf planet, because it feels better - there at least was a difference between those words.
  5. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Purpose of neopronouns?

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Purpose of neopronouns?◄◄

    If you try to google the meaning of any neopronoun that you know and if your googling skills are same as mine, then chances are you'll only find that it's nothing more than a synonym for they/them.

    This may give some insight into the purpose of neopronouns:
    Its different for everyone, Finch says. For two years I used ze and hir pronouns, and its kind of a process of trying them out and having other people try them out to see how it feels and sounds. (Finch now primarily identifies as he and him.)

    The common sentiment for having different options for your pronoun to choose from is something like this:
    Words that in a way function as a marker of some part of one's identity, it does matter that people should find those they can feel comfortable with.

    I'm all for people feeling better. But why would a synonym of the same word feel any different? Same meaning, different sound. What's the purpose?

    I don't care what people decide to call themselves, but except it creates problems doesn't it? If I want to talk about Marshmallow Marshall and not say that long name every time - I have to go ask him his preferred pronoun first. Assuming I know his name in the first place.

    What I want to understand is - how are neopronouns worth anything? What am I missing?
    I myself wanted to learn about this stuff, but I can't help and conclude that neopronouns add problems for no benefit that I can see.
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    ►►Re: Consequences of extreme automation◄◄

    Who's is rich and who's poor if nobody got no jobs?
    Communism.

    How'd such a extreme reform of society/civilization be possible without disasters?
    Only with an AI overmind.

    Ideal scenario?
    Star Trek.

    My 2 cents.


    I'll say though that I don't think it's possible unless some grand breakthrough in harvesting renewable energy gets discovered.
  7. Forum:Setup Workshop

    Thread:S-FM Explosive Tactics

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    [Abandoned] ►►Re: S-FM Explosive Tactics◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Marked as Abandoned. If you find a way to address Lag's concerns, feel free to bump the setup, but as it is right now, I think the enjoyability factor is pretty low due to what Lag said (it's also why Jesters are generally bad, especially when they are part of the main scum faction), and I don't see how to change that without completely changing the setup's spirit .
    Probably something like:
    Add rule "anyone without a vote at EoD, in case of plurality lynch, gets sent to Siberian work camps and will be never heard of again".
    Change the 2ndary wincon to "explode 51%+", and change the primary wincons to some flag.

    2/3 of those are lame though uke:
  8. Forum:Setup Workshop

    Thread:S-FM Explosive Tactics

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    [Abandoned] ►►Re: S-FM Explosive Tactics◄◄

    Great.. aaaaaand /abandoned
  9. Forum:Setup Workshop

    Thread:S-FM Explosive Tactics

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    [Abandoned] ►►Re: S-FM Explosive Tactics◄◄

    @Marshmallow Marshall @Lag
    I dare you guys to find anything wrong in here. I double dare you. I triple dare you!
  10. Forum:Setup Workshop

    Thread:S-FM Explosive Tactics

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    [Abandoned] ►►S-FM Explosive Tactics◄◄

    Explosive Tactics
    (Meme Tier Setup)

    9P
    6x Citizen
    1x KGB
    2x CIA

    11P
    8x Citizen
    1x KGB
    2x CIA

    13P
    10x Citizen
    1x KGB
    2x CIA

    15P
    11x Citizen
    1x KGB
    3x CIA

    Spoiler : Role Cards :

    Citizen
    You're awesome!

    KGB
    Each night, you may choose a target for the following day. If the target dies by the CIA's ability that day, you save them. If the target is a CIA who tries to explode, you stop them.
    Your ability doesn't work if you're eliminated wether at night or day.
    Your ability gives you no feedbacks.

    CIA
    As a member of the CIA, you have a mandatory factional night kill at your disposal. If no target is chosen, one is chosen randomly for you.
    Additionally, at nights you may choose to use your ability the following day. Your ability explodes you at the end of the day, eliminating you and everyone who has a vote on you. You can't stop the explosion, only the KGB can.


    Special Mechanics
    • CIA alternative win condition and their Explosive Tactics ability.
    • But only in the 9P version, CIA's factional night kill is disabled nights 1 and 2.


    Mechanics
    • Days 48 hours, Nights 24 hours.
    • Majority+Plurality Lynch Mechanic.
    • Skipping the day is allowed once.
    • Last Wills and Death notes are allowed.
    • CIA share a mandatory factional night kill.
    • CIA's private chat is both night and day active.


    Possible Feedback
    Spoiler : Feedbacks :
    Citizen
    • None
    KGB
    • None
    CIA (when the KGB successfully blocks them)
    • "Your equipment malfunctioned. Better luck next time!"


    Win Conditions
    • Town wins when all CIA have been eliminated and at least 1 Townie is still alive.
    • CIA win when they achieve Parity or if they kill 50% of living Townies in a single day using their Explosive Tactics ability.


    Order of Operations



    Rules of Conduct
    Forum Mafia Rules
  11. Forum:Approved Forum Mafia Setups

    Thread:S-FM SVM (10P or 14P)

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    [Approved Experimental] ►►Re: S-FM SVM (10P or 14P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    It seems like there's a chance for town to roll all the power roles while mafia rolls none, or vice versa where mafia rolls all the power roles while town gets none.

    C9++ counters this by making it so as town gets more power roles and stronger power roles, the anti-town factions get stronger as well.

    Rolling a d100 and assigning to slots in an alignment agnostic manner seems like it runs a high risk of having one sided setups?
    Lol
    I remember MM pointing out the issues with pure random also, during the review. See, in #14's last sentence I said "I removed the 'random' part". But I removed only the random part of role selection, not the random part of role assigning.
    I'm just gonna remove the mention of any randoming lol. I wonder if that's what MM originally meant or it's an oversight.

    Ftr, I'd 99% RNG everything as host anyways very likely. \_(ツ)_/

    Ughh.. I'd rather have liked it if my setup could run itself where the host only has to follow instructions tbh. This feels incomplete now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???!?!!!!!!

    Also, there's technically a controversy now, before I edit. First it says pick numbers hence roles. Then later it says to assign the randomed roles randomly.
    I can fix 2 things in 1.

    Thanks, btw.
    Funny oversight ngl.
  12. Forum:Approved Forum Mafia Setups

    Thread:S-FM SVM (10P or 14P)

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    [Approved Experimental] ►►Re: S-FM SVM (10P or 14P)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Lag View Post
    What does this mean exactly? If a Lookout rolls then give one Lookout to town and one to mafia?
    No, the "1 for each" is meant as "1 for each slot", hence why randomed that many powers. I remember recognizing that saying "1 for each slot" would be easier to understand, but I rejected that idea because it's technically incorrect and making it "one for each slot among town and mafia" seems unnecessary word heavy in an already word heavy setup.

    How'd you have worded it? I do try in making my setups be as concisely worded as I can.
    I actually felt good about that specific wording because I thought that the way it's worded in C9++ is much less concise by comparison.
  13. Forum:Horrendous Content

    Thread:some fish

    Thread Author:Frinckles

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: some fish◄◄

    Saltwater Scourge was awful.
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    Sticky: ►►Re: Forum Mafia - Hosting Order and Setup Reviewing◄◄

    @Marshmallow Marshall
    Change my setup to host to SVM plz.

    I couldn't decide wether I want to cancel my queue or put in on hold or just host SVM instead, so I leave it at the latter + a notice to you that there's a decent chance I'll cancel it.
  15. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Thread Author:Auwt

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls◄◄

    My slot has to just go anyway, given it's a consensus and people can't look past it, and there's still a gazilion lynches available afterwards. Catching up is not worth my time.

    My guesses for the possible scum teams:[*]MM+Lag, based on what I said in my opening post.[*]SJ+Loldebite, based on them coming alive at the same time.[*]Martin+Gikkle, since I can't think of any other partner for Martin from what I've seen.

    In case anyone else gets eliminated today, our biscuit will go to Light most likely.
    -vote oliverz144


    The question is though if I should join the DVC or not?
  16. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Thread Author:Auwt

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    Yaa we1) wanted to see the wagonomics, watching maybe ppl jumping off imediatel
    2) wanted to find out if the vacron wagon will drive as smooth as the mizery one
    That's not what I asked tbh
    I wanted for info - because if mizery voters were online that'd clear them.

    /Off for a bit
  17. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Thread Author:Auwt

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    And since ascension and killing cost the same, they'd have to get how many biscuits to be able to kill?
    What's the problem with the strategy again?
    Able to kill after ascension*
  18. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Thread Author:Auwt

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    Hmm. They initially share the same bank, according to auwt
    And since ascension and killing cost the same, they'd have to get how many biscuits to be able to kill?
    What's the problem with the strategy again?
  19. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Thread Author:Auwt

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    Yeah lag switched over to varcron becuz the mizery train was riding too smooth
    And becuz varcron was very scummy aswell
    And becuz we wanted to see hows switching aswell
    Wagonomics are very analysis usefull
    And this relates to you becuz u didnt like us switching to varcron
    Was Varcron perceived any more scummy than literally every other game? Why? Reading into effort or was there actually anything more to it? From what I
    I've read ITT I've only seen effort reads on Varcron.
  20. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Thread Author:Auwt

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    We tried to get cfd and for analysis
    And from town pov, lags pov, was varcron very scummy
    Did you try to get CFD off of Mizery's slot and nobody baited or were they not online?
  21. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Thread Author:Auwt

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    No, this wouldnt work out, sadly.
    Unlike corrupted ascended souls, town ascended souls wont be able to use tokens at all.
    This stands in the role card.
    Somehow this is very ... scummy
    Wouldn't they have 0 biscuits to start with? Where would they get the other? And even if they have other, and by some miracle enough for a kill - couldn't they just be blocked by others though after one of them flips?
    Like there's no drawback even in worst case scenario the way I see it unless I'm missing something.
  22. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Thread Author:Auwt

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I stand offended by your lack of trust in me here :P. I had zero reason to hop on the train Lag had started as Mizery's scummate: without anyone to confirm Lag's metaread, nobody would have given him much credit. Plus, one vote meant a lot, and I stood clearly ready to lynch Mizery, so unless for some unearthly reason I would have decided to hard bus my scummate on D1 while there were easier lynches to grab (such as town!Varcron or town!some-inactive), I can't be scum here.

    I am, of course, 100 % objective when making this statement and have no interest whatsoever in influencing the conclusion you will reach, which means you can fully trust me.
    Ohh.. you voted Mizery..
    Yah I agree that bussing D1 on such even trains sounds stupid, and it kinda semi-confirms you 3.
    Usually I'd say a nightless setup, Day1 bussing is good strategy. But it's too many drawbacks in this specific setup though.
    Having said that though, out of the 3 of you I trust you the least. And I haven't even seen or remember any of Wraths posts.

    Should have given my biscuit to Light
  23. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Thread Author:Auwt

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Yeaaaa I'm happy with my vote xD.
    Claiming who you gave a token to after the night was only brought up by Gikkle after the first posts you're talking about, which means you're judging medieval people as being dumb for not using airplanes while they had not been thought about yet. I'm pretty sure you can see that for yourself. Also, saying I was strawmanning Martin here is just... wrong? He says Lag is "not allowing for other perspectives". I say that's not what he's doing, and that I agree with Lag. There's just no way I can misrepresent Martin there.
    Dude you literally claimed that Martin said he'd never tell anyone whom he gave a token to, when he was talking only about the day before. Go read your own post if you don't believe me. So yes, you did blatantly misrepresent what Martin said there. Perhaps it's a honest mistake, perhaps it's shading. Who knows.
    I didn't understand the medieval part one bit ftr

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    About the plan: Says the double slot, lol. Remember we'd have to lynch every day anyway. We could very well just end up feeding the wolves their victory through that plan.
    "Look guys, the double slot is asking us to solve him, that's scummy!"
    Are you actually being serious here?

    Also, ftr. If we lynch 1 wolf out of the "single slots" - this strategy is 100% win. While mislynching 1 double slot before ascension makes the strategy impossible anymore.

    Wolves literally have Max 2 kills (realistically 0-1?)
    We can confirm how many?
    We're close to being mechanically won and you want to lynch between 2 double slots? One of which is basically close to confirmed unless you actually believe 6 out of 7 townies voted 2 out of 3 wolves day1.
  24. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Thread Author:Auwt

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Martin and Varcron are not SvS. It makes no sense for Martin to jump on Varcron to tie him with another scummate in such a spontaneous manner. However, I would be quite surprised if both were town: Varcron did not vote at all (why not at least counterwagon on Mizery when you're likely to get lynched?), and on the other hand, Martin's vote on Varcron could have been scum seeing the opportunity to save a scummate (or at least to make a scummate's life be decided on a coinflip instead of being 100 % doomed) without being suspicious, given that Lag had given him that on a platter. If I were to go into conspiracy theories, I'd also have to say Lag could have tried to generate a tie between town!Varcron and scum!Mizery in the hope that Varcron would die, which would have put us in a pretty bad situation: no real info, one townie down. I townread Lag, though, but for the sake of rigorous analysis, it had to be mentioned.

    Considering this, I'm going to drop my vote on Varcron's slot here.

    -vote OzyWho


    Useful reminders:
    Lag = Oliver
    Light = PQ
    Martin = Stealth
    Varcron = Ozy
    Ftr, Varcron spent very little time on the game.
    There's no "Varcron didn't vote because x/y" conspiracy. There's just "Varcron didn't vote".
    Which I admit is anti-town, but hardly surprising from my pov. He even asked me to choose whom to give the biscuit to even though he knew I didn't read even half the game.
  25. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Thread Author:Auwt

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I am inclined to think this is town Gikkle seeing a train that looks pretty baseless to him because he does not have the meta information to base it on and thus questions the train, and not scum Gikkle trying to derail the train. There was so little pressure on anyone that it would have been easy to create a situation stronger than just "he looks like he's staying in his scum meta" if he really wanted to save Mizery.

    Also, I gave my token to Lag and received one as well.
    I agree about Gikkle!Town
    Not feeling the MM!Town as much though
  26. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Thread Author:Auwt

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls◄◄

    Thoughts on page 6 from what I gather:
    -Martin and SB16 have continuously said throughout the game that effort reads are unreliable, yet they both effort read my slot?
    A quick reminder that my slot is basically as close to confirmed by D1 votes as possible, because for my slot to be scum together with Mizery's there have to have had happened one of the following:
    1) 6 out of 7 townies split votes on 2 wolves evenly.
    2) 5 out of 7 townies voted 2 wolves and the 3rd wolf made the counter wagon be another wolf.
    I'm sorry but that's absurd. Not to mention on top of everyone having conveniently forgotten how Varcron, and often I for that matter, is.

    -There's split opinions on Gikkle, even though he made the most sense to me, yet no mentions of what I said about MM and Lag?

    -Light is townread, to which I agree. Light's meta has always been simple, if he solves he town.


    I don't mind to be todays lynch if that's the consensus, I never do, and we've like a gazilion lynches available if everyone agrees to never use kill. But damn this looked retarded, I thought my slot should be among the most confirmed just due to EoD1 votes.
  27. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Thread Author:Auwt

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    Ozy what do you think of Martin? You're slot was attacking Martin and then kinda just stopped all the sudden and I'm kinda curious what was up with that
    Idk?
    I asked Varcron to ask Martin why can't SB16 talk during day phase to him ever, even though that's weekend. I called it weird and he agreed.
    Both of us spent little time on the game thus far. Varcron never even seems online to me on discord..
  28. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Thread Author:Auwt

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Yeah, this might be the only game in the world where someone moves a train off of a lynch that turns out to be scum and we go "yeah, thats fair".

    The general attitude is that it wasn't a bad call... which I find interesting.

    We're in the @OzyWho waiting room right now. This day revolves entirely around him.
    Totally 100%

    Meanwhile Ozy levels Yasuo in Labs

    I couldn't take this game serious if I tried lol. So many lynches available - it's just silly.
    Not playing to Day7+ sounds mildly comfy though.
  29. Forum:Archived S-FMs

    Thread:S-FM 335: Bisected Souls

    Thread Author:Auwt

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls◄◄

    Ughh, I still have to read up plenty.. at some point..

    I gave a biscuit to Gikkle or Grikkle or whatever his name was, and it's all pretty much based on page2 only. I received none.
    I've in my notes some stuff:
    --
    #51
    I don't see why, for example Martin, couldn't just claim whom they gave their token to on the following day and not the day before. Aren't people allowed to rethink during the night phase? Lag himself said nothing about "claims must be the day before" before this post, so immediately jumping to the conclusion as if it were something obvious looks disingenuous.
    It feels unnecessary shady tbh.
    --
    #54 Lag honestly claims that nobody is allowed to change their minds during the night. It's literally when you have the time to think about your decision.

    I'd honestly vote Lag here for shading.
    He never even said before all this that night actions have to be claimed the day before and not after. It honestly looks like a trap.
    --
    #56 Lag says nobody reconsiders during the night. I literally almost always submit my action at like the last hour..
    --
    #58 MM is strawmaning Martin here, since Martin never said anything about not saying whom they gave their token to, only about to not do it the day before.
    I'd honestly call out a possible Lag+MM team here.
    MM is just blatantly misrepresenting what Martin said here.
    --
    #66 #69 - for a moment there it first sounded like Martin actually meant to never say their target? Ask Varcron to ask Martin why SB16 can't talk during the day phase at all with him and can only talk at night.
    --
    Hard agree with #84


    That #84 was why I chose to give a biscuit to Gikkle guy.

    Some things of interest to me:
    -I see Varcron got voted up D1. Are you serious guys? You should know better than to vote Varcron for being like Varcron. MM, Martin and Lag in particular should know it.
    - Can't we just clutch out a mechanical win from here? Someone review this plan: We ascend all double slots, lynch 1 from each and agree to never use night kill. We have more than enough confirmed slots at that point - and if Mafia choose to kill anyone then they're in a tight tight mechanical PoE.
    - Tbh, only reason I want to read up is to see who's now confirmed by the flip. Ugh.. if someone could just tell me? That'd be great..

    I'm back to Labs in Runeterra. Cya!
    Also, lol at the fact that Day1 had 230 posts, 1 slot 0 posts, 1 slot minimum posts, yet a Mafia got lynched by 3 votes when Mafia should have 3 vote power themselves? This's a meme game lol.

    Also, in this setup each mafia lynch gives 1 more mislynch for town and 1 less night kill for mafia. Which kinda means those voting Mizery should be confirmed? I even forgot who they're lol.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls (10-20P) Signups◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    oh man, wasnt it going to start today?
    Nope
    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    The game will (very) likely start on the week-end following the 10th of November. (the 12th or the 13th)

    As for the starting hour :

    8 PM (CET) = 12 PM (PT) = 3 PM (ET)
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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls (10-20P) Signups◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizery View Post
    can i /unsign? /out?
    whichever works

    sorry
    Ofc you can, don't worry about it.
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    ►►Re: How can one be against philosophy◄◄

    I think people have the wrong impression of what philosophy is and don't realize that, at it's core, it's nothing more than a synonym for critical thinking.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls (10-20P) Signups◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I will replace in or play depending on the timeline.
    I am a ghost for the next 2 or 3 weeks but I love this game concept
    You should play with SJ to balance it out.
    He's as much a ghost as a gorilla with 2 cymbals, 1 in each hand.
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    ►►Re: Subjective vs Objective morality◄◄

    Ngl that leap in logic between the premises in the first example - it's difficult for me to see it.
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    ►►Re: Subjective vs Objective morality◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    Also I think one of the most troubling aspects for people to entertain subjective morality is most probably the morbid stuff. I'm going to put forward a fucked up thing in my next line, but it's only as a device to get a point across. Really could insert any other heinous acts in lieu of the following.

    They can't accept a viewpoint where, say, raping a kid (or any other fucked up shit) is not objectively immoral across the board. Accepting that these morbid views can exist in validity, even when its not themself nor their society that holds this view, is so revolting to them they just outright refuse to entertain the idea of subjective morality.

    I mean I do not blame them, that's pretty fucking evil.
    Do I understand you correct in that you believe that morality doesn't exist if things like upbringing and social influence are out of the equation?

    That means you disagree with my previous statement that we're born with predispositions and not blank slates?


    Funny thing about this topic is that I think morality could be both - objective and subjective.
    Subjective in the sense of to each their own.
    Objective in the sense of it existing outside of our 'thinky brains'.
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    ►►Re: Subjective vs Objective morality◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Major premise: Anyone should do what is right (by definition of should, no matter how you define "what is right", this is true)
    Minor premise: Morality is right (true by the definition of morality, which is always considered as right, no matter the specific distinctions you can make about this)
    Conclusion: Anyone should act morally

    This reasoning, which is 100 % certainly valid by definition (and I see no possible objections to it; if you do, please do bring them up), is the foundation for other "ought" statements, i.e. moral statements. Then, defining what is moral is another issue, but once you have criteria to define what is moral, you can apply them to reality X and conclude that X is moral or not. Once you concluded that X is moral or not, you can then conclude that X should or should not be done from two "is" premises because you will always apply the reasoning to say X is moral and thus should be done (or is not moral and thus should not be done).

    Does that make sense?
  37. Forum:Horrendous Content

    Thread:best league of legend s champ

    Thread Author:Frinckles

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: best league of legend s champ◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Dazzle
    Rylai though
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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls (10-20P) Signups◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Game is starting on the 10th of November, it is going somewhere, and we do have enough players. I guess I'm without a soulmate now but I'm still in, which means we only need 1 more slot to be filled, and someone could probably unbind his soul from someone else's to fill the game if it's really needed.
    @Auwt I think the player list needs an update ;)
    Me and Varcron are a package deal, either both or none!
    Though I can't speak on behalf of Varcron
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    ►►Re: Subjective vs Objective morality◄◄

    I seem to not understand the david hume's guillotine as I don't think it's applicable for a large scope of ought conclusions.. for every living being.. for most oughts..
    Someone fill me in what I'm missing..
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    ►►Re: Subjective vs Objective morality◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    kinda, but it would be illuminating to have a concrete example of how an 'ought' statement becomes interchangeable with an 'is' statement in this context. Maybe I'm being slow
    Tom is seeking wellbeing.
    Tom ought to seek wellbeing.
    Both can be used as a premise for same conclusion that Tom ought to do what makes him happy.

    I fully realize that a vast vast majority of philosophers see the David Hume's Guillotine as unsurpassable, and that this idea/post is highly controversial.
    If someone sees a fault here, I'm all ears. I already forfeit that I can't think of any other topic where you can get a ought conclusion without an ought premise. So it's not far fetched to view the is-ought problem as absolute.
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    ►►Re: Subjective vs Objective morality◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    For example: Objective Morality may be different when considering the perspective of an individual vs the perspective of life on the planet or humans as a species. And a Fatalist is going to have a very different view from a Nihilist.
    I'm quite certain we've watched the same debate on YouTube, lol. Otherwise this's a REMARKABLE conjecture to make to say the least..

    Which is great. This means you'll fill in my ~1h30m gap that I missed due to falling asleep.
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    ►►Re: S-FM 335: Bisected Souls (10-20P) Signups◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    looks like this isnt going anywhere.
    Auwt said he wants to start on the 10th I think.
    But yeh, might be not enough players.
  43. Forum:Site Discussion

    Thread:I don't like this new policy change tbh

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: I don't like this new policy change tbh◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    okay, infractions given and thread re-opened. Good call ozy.
    What infractions were oberon and rumox given for comparison? This "good call ozy" sounds like a mockery due to it looks like a double standard to me.

    Edit: it's possible I exhibit double standard as well.
  44. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Who was the most evil person?

    Thread Author:Helz

    Post Author:OzyWho

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    ►►Re: Who was the most evil person?◄◄

    @aamirus could you show who's here off topic other than rumox and these last mod posts?
    This is a heavy topic. Before even beginning a discussion of who's the most evil, we first have to define evil. And for that we need morality. And moral realism is part of that. Like I thought everyone was well on topic in almost all their posts, even when heated. The 1 exception I feel is rumox.
  45. Forum:Site Discussion

    Thread:I don't like this new policy change tbh

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:OzyWho

    Replies
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    ►►I don't like this new policy change tbh◄◄

    I think there used to be pages of angry posts before closing a 'serious discussion & debate' thread was considered. (Other than Voss sometimes closing a thread after a few off topic posts. But for as long as they were semi on topic..)
    It used to be a last resort type of deal.
    I don't remember mods ever editing posts either tbh.

    Now a few angry posts and an entire thread is closed?
    Go follow the site rules and give people infractions for not following the subforums or sites rules if you must, but please stop closing threads unless absolutely necessary?
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    ►►Re: Subjective vs Objective morality◄◄

    Obviously that post was meant for previous topic.

    Also, I guess we'll never learn who was the most evil person ever, or what evil even is for that matter.
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    ►►Subjective vs Objective morality◄◄

    I want to just post my thoughts on the previous topic.




    (disclaimer: I didn't read anything since my last post)

    Not entirely on the topic, because it addressees a different perspective of the "objective vs subjective" debate than in this thread, but I think that people instinctively view 'ought' statements as subjective and 'is' statements as objective. Funny thing is that for that perspective, I think there wouldn't be that distinction in this topic.

    Usually, you can't conclude an 'ought' statement from only 'is' statements. You need somewhere an 'ought' premise for that. But that's where a topic like morality becomes, in my opinion, special.

    We, as a species/beings, have things ingrained in us. Like wanting wellbeing and not wanting to suffer for an eternity for example.
    Because of these things - 'ought' statements can be viewed as 'is' statements for as long as it's about these 'things'. Get what I'm saying?
    So, for that perspective debate of "objective vs subjective" wrt morality, all you'd really need is to figure out if morality is one of those things that are ingrained in us when we're born, or it's a "depends on the person" type of deal.



    Anyhow, sorry for that derailing, I just thought it interesting.
    As I understand, this threads ongoing debate of "objective vs subjective morality" is about wether every person has the same sets of morality or everyone has their own? Well, to be frank, if all I need is to find 1 neonazi who's ok with killing jews or blacks, or 1 serial killer who sees nothing wrong with killing people - I'll take the leap and assume that there's 1 such person amongst the billion people in the world, and say that morality is subjective and the sets of morality depends on the person.
  48. Forum:Serious Discussion & Debate

    Thread:Who was the most evil person?

    Thread Author:Helz

    Post Author:OzyWho

    Replies
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    ►►Re: Who was the most evil person?◄◄

    At the end of the day, morality is a human concept and not some cosmic constant or truth. So at the very least - morality is subjective at least in that regard.
    Is morality objective or subjective for us humans? I'm not yet willing to tackle that subject tbh. But I will say though that atm I'm reluctant to take any opinions serious that take an absolute stance on the subject.
  49. Forum:Horrendous Content

    Thread:MM's dream girlfriend be like..

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:OzyWho

    Replies
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    ►►Re: MM's dream girlfriend be like..◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Heh this video appeared in my YouTube feed as well

    The flatten steel with my thighs line is so good
    The fact that it's supposed to be a flirt line lol
  50. Forum:Horrendous Content

    Thread:MM's dream girlfriend be like..

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:OzyWho

    Replies
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    ►►Re: MM's dream girlfriend be like..◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I hate fat girls, this doesn’t apply to me
    I only like very skinny ones
    The insinuation was you are a Masochist and like pain.
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