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Just remembered I started a similar thread a while ago, here was the best response I found:
[QUOTE=Slaol;249227]This change would open a huge can of worms for everyone, like me, who find 1 of each random to not exactly match.
Vig/Jailor/Vet = high risk, high reward. BG = not.
Doctor/BG/Escort = stop attacks. BD = exchange who gets attacked
Sheriff/Invest/Detective = offensive. Lookout = reactant/defensive.
Sheriff/Doc/Citizen = original roles (Core). Mason = lol, not core at all.

They are better as is, not worrying about power or technical use.[/QUOTE]

Just remembered I started a similar thread a while ago, here was the best response I found:

Originally Posted by Slaol

This change would open a huge can of worms for everyone, like me, who find 1 of each random to not exactly match.
Vig/Jailor/Vet = high risk, high reward. BG = not.
Doctor/BG/Escort = stop attacks. BD = exchange who gets attacked
Sheriff/Invest/Detective = offensive. Lookout = reactant/defensive.
Sheriff/Doc/Citizen = original roles (Core). Mason = lol, not core at all.

They are better as is, not worrying about power or technical use.

I've raised this concern before: [url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/13062-Role-Cards-for-Immune-to-Detection[/url] but people are more interested in adding new roles than fixing the role card.

I've raised this concern before: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...e-to-Detection but people are more interested in adding new roles than fixing the role card.

To me, removing marshall ability to reveal day 1 makes more sense than not letting vig shot n1.

To me, removing marshall ability to reveal day 1 makes more sense than not letting vig shot n1.

[QUOTE=kyle1234513;337142]so to sum up your complaint, you want all neutral killers to be created equal. and you want a neutral killer option to exclude MM, exclude SK, exclude arson.
neut killer can only be 3 options. any exclusions = just make a confirmed NK of your choice into your save instead of using NK.
and if you actually want to make a formal change to any of the roles you should make something up yourself and suggest it.

otherwise.... its up to you alone to make your save fair and balanced based on already existing options. sheriff unable to detect arson is more than enough balance in favor of arson to give arson a strong fighting chance in the game.[/QUOTE]

If there are 3 roles and you can exclude one then there are still 2 roles the neutral could be. I would like to be able to setup a game with sk/mm and wd/cult/witch/arsonist instead of sk/mm/arsonist and wd/cult/witch so I don't have to switch between mass murderer and sk manually, It wouldn't even be a difficult option to add.

If I understand correctly yzb25's problem with arsonist isn't that he is harder to win than sk/mm but rather that his kpn is significantly smaller which results in town having more time to find mafia/cult/witch, making these roles (and not arsonist) harder to win with when the nk flips arsonist.

Originally Posted by kyle1234513

so to sum up your complaint, you want all neutral killers to be created equal. and you want a neutral killer option to exclude MM, exclude SK, exclude arson.
neut killer can only be 3 options. any exclusions = just make a confirmed NK of your choice into your save instead of using NK.
and if you actually want to make a formal change to any of the roles you should make something up yourself and suggest it.

otherwise.... its up to you alone to make your save fair and balanced based on already existing options. sheriff unable to detect arson is more than enough balance in favor of arson to give arson a strong fighting chance in the game.

If there are 3 roles and you can exclude one then there are still 2 roles the neutral could be. I would like to be able to setup a game with sk/mm and wd/cult/witch/arsonist instead of sk/mm/arsonist and wd/cult/witch so I don't have to switch between mass murderer and sk manually, It wouldn't even be a difficult option to add.

If I understand correctly yzb25's problem with arsonist isn't that he is harder to win than sk/mm but rather that his kpn is significantly smaller which results in town having more time to find mafia/cult/witch, making these roles (and not arsonist) harder to win with when the nk flips arsonist.

Has anyone actually mentioned a reason arsonist shouldn't be able to be excluded from random killing?

Has anyone actually mentioned a reason arsonist shouldn't be able to be excluded from random killing?

You guys should really compare win/loss ratio for each side instead of just wins. Otherwise the results are heavily skewed by the roles available in the average setup (and it's worse once you get blacklist/prefer).

You guys should really compare win/loss ratio for each side instead of just wins. Otherwise the results are heavily skewed by the roles available in the average setup (and it's worse once you get blacklist/prefer).

My main problem with arsonist is that his low/high averages too low because he quite simply kills less players on average compared to sk and mm. This seems due to 3 reasons:
1. The first night is "wasted" (douse vs attack)
2. Every time they decide to attack a player (burn) they are losing an attack (douse)
3. Some of arsonist's douses will die

Why not have arsonist be allowed them to burn (previously doused) and douse (new players) at the same time? Arsonist could then save up his douses and be in the same situation he is now but if he decides to burn every night he can, he won't attack <1/2 of what the sk does. Arsonist would still be slower than sk to react to accusations and can't kill n1 so this would raise his low. Considering MM kill 5+ players in one night often compared to arsonists (mm has a higher high) AND arsonists only kill 1 big group or 2 small groups while that mm can go on to kill (mm has a higher low) at least consider making this an option.

If not, at least let him douse 2 players n1.

My main problem with arsonist is that his low/high averages too low because he quite simply kills less players on average compared to sk and mm. This seems due to 3 reasons:
1. The first night is "wasted" (douse vs attack)
2. Every time they decide to attack a player (burn) they are losing an attack (douse)
3. Some of arsonist's douses will die

Why not have arsonist be allowed them to burn (previously doused) and douse (new players) at the same time? Arsonist could then save up his douses and be in the same situation he is now but if he decides to burn every night he can, he won't attack <1/2 of what the sk does. Arsonist would still be slower than sk to react to accusations and can't kill n1 so this would raise his low. Considering MM kill 5+ players in one night often compared to arsonists (mm has a higher high) AND arsonists only kill 1 big group or 2 small groups while that mm can go on to kill (mm has a higher low) at least consider making this an option.

If not, at least let him douse 2 players n1.

[QUOTE=Kefka;335305]How about this. Ghosts can haunt people at night but they don't show up in lookout reports. All it does is display a message to the player saying they were haunted.[/QUOTE]

"Haunt me if 1 is mafia"
You have been Haunted 8 times.

Wouldn't mind if dead players could haunt their killer if they were killed by non-town.

Originally Posted by Kefka

How about this. Ghosts can haunt people at night but they don't show up in lookout reports. All it does is display a message to the player saying they were haunted.

"Haunt me if 1 is mafia"
You have been Haunted 8 times.

Wouldn't mind if dead players could haunt their killer if they were killed by non-town.

[QUOTE=kyle1234513;334809]it wouldn't be for nothing. its a great idea so long as it can have no impact on the ongoing game. extra work, ofc. but then again more options for the dead = more reasons for the dead to stay. instead of "I died, time to quit and join another match" or "I died, time to afk or alt tab"[/QUOTE]

I never understood why players care if dead players stay. If you want players to stay until the end, give them a legitimate reason to do so, such as a new game starting, don't rely on points and mini-games as much.

Originally Posted by kyle1234513

it wouldn't be for nothing. its a great idea so long as it can have no impact on the ongoing game. extra work, ofc. but then again more options for the dead = more reasons for the dead to stay. instead of "I died, time to quit and join another match" or "I died, time to afk or alt tab"

I never understood why players care if dead players stay. If you want players to stay until the end, give them a legitimate reason to do so, such as a new game starting, don't rely on points and mini-games as much.

Problem with coroner vs cult is
1) a cultist must be dead
2) only one cultist has to target for each recruit
3) it is unknown if the last target of cult was conversion or his original ability

Compared to sheriff/invest who can positively identify cultists just by investigating them, I would say coroner is a far lesser threat.

Problem with coroner vs cult is
1) a cultist must be dead
2) only one cultist has to target for each recruit
3) it is unknown if the last target of cult was conversion or his original ability

Compared to sheriff/invest who can positively identify cultists just by investigating them, I would say coroner is a far lesser threat.

I would keep in mind that you are not trying to make sc2mafia but a new game, one that should be an overall improvement in terms of gameplay, not graphics.The biggest probelm with sc2mafia isn't that you have to play from sc2 but what limitations there are in making games in sc2.
1. There is a player limit of 15, I see no reason to enforce this in Town of Salem. Make the maximum lobby size huge and allow for players to decide a sensible size.
2. You cannot rejoin a game in sc2mafia. Instead if a player leaves then I recommend making them psuedostumps, no action or votes but they can be killed and lynched. When they come back let their role be restored.
3. The "host" does not setup a game before it fills but afterword, make it so players know the setup they are joining before they join it.

If you want to compete with epicmafia my advice would be to focus on server stability and stamping out gameplay bugs. However there are several things that are in epicmafia that I would like to see in this game. Epicmafia allows you to exclude or include any role into a setup, then it is possible to hover over an icon to see icons of all included roles. This allows for additional customization and quick reference for players. However a problem with epicmafia is that new players do not have icons memorized. sc2mafia uses a role list without icons which can be hovered over for additional information. I would like to see these two approaches combined.

On a side note I find the model's hands very disconcerting. Could you add an option where they put them in their pockets?

I would keep in mind that you are not trying to make sc2mafia but a new game, one that should be an overall improvement in terms of gameplay, not graphics.The biggest probelm with sc2mafia isn't that you have to play from sc2 but what limitations there are in making games in sc2.
1. There is a player limit of 15, I see no reason to enforce this in Town of Salem. Make the maximum lobby size huge and allow for players to decide a sensible size.
2. You cannot rejoin a game in sc2mafia. Instead if a player leaves then I recommend making them psuedostumps, no action or votes but they can be killed and lynched. When they come back let their role be restored.
3. The "host" does not setup a game before it fills but afterword, make it so players know the setup they are joining before they join it.

If you want to compete with epicmafia my advice would be to focus on server stability and stamping out gameplay bugs. However there are several things that are in epicmafia that I would like to see in this game. Epicmafia allows you to exclude or include any role into a setup, then it is possible to hover over an icon to see icons of all included roles. This allows for additional customization and quick reference for players. However a problem with epicmafia is that new players do not have icons memorized. sc2mafia uses a role list without icons which can be hovered over for additional information. I would like to see these two approaches combined.

On a side note I find the model's hands very disconcerting. Could you add an option where they put them in their pockets?

My biggest issue are mayor/marshall who can autoconfirm and gather roles, which is a boring but efficent way to play these roles. I would add some danger to these options, either an evil role which can pretend to be mayor/marshall or a way for mafia to use information against them (like vent from epicmafia).

[QUOTE=Dagaen;333767]Obviously cheaters, leavers, trolls and people who can't read:P

Oh, mechanical-wise?

1. Marshall. The only proper way to use it is when town knows for sure that 2+ people are 100% bad guys. So in high levels game Marshall is just a Citizen with auto-confirm option, in every other it just helps Mafias. Now, I don't want to say that Marshall should be buffed, because weaker roles are fine with me (I love Citizens!), but Marshall just encourages town to random lynch and I don't think Town really needs it. Perhaps after revealing day should be prolonged so town doesn't feel forced to make rush decisions? Or if majority of lynched players were town-aligned random guilty voter will become demoted into Citizen? I really don't have better ideas now, but I hate Marshall for making random lynches easier.

2. Some roles from epicmafia are so awesome they should be implemented. E.g. Angel (neutral benign with superior healing ability who wins when person he's protecting survives till the end) or my favourite - Voodoo lady (at night choosing 4-letter word and target person, when this person says this word he dies instantly - in epicmafia it's Mafia role, but I think it should be evil neutral).

3. I wouldn't mind if Vigilante had dn option. I know it makes him easier to prove himself, but after being put in one group with SK and Mafioso I think he deserves it. Right now, after successful kill Vigilante can reveal himself and be proven town anyway, so why not?

4. I don't know if this was changed but I don't see Coroner in games anymore. Is that a bug? My Setup has few town randoms, Coroner is not excluded and after ~100 games I still haven't seen him once. Give me back my Coroner!:D

EDIT: I really had to force myself to think of those things. Obviously I also love the game as it is:P[/QUOTE]

1. The marshall is one of, if not the most powerful town role and does not need to be made stronger. You don't need to know multiple people are mafia, if there are conflicting reports or just not that many people he can be used to lynch both. As for making a random guiltier a citizen, I don't like the idea of randomizing it.

2. Wouldn't mind angel but voodoo, as it is in epicmafia, would result in good players talking in 3 letter words every game, which would just be annoying. It's why voodoo is not in any competitive epicmafia setups.

3. Anyone can claim they were the vig who shot unless there was a death note and I personally hate confirmed towns.

4. Add a confirmed janitor to your setups, coroners chance to spawn is increased with them.

[QUOTE=Boss;333822]+1 to the marshall idea,

and give more points to people who play citizens, might bring more balanced games back to sc2 mafia.[/QUOTE]

This was already implemented [url]https://wiki.sc2mafia.com/en/index.php/Citizen[/url]

My biggest issue are mayor/marshall who can autoconfirm and gather roles, which is a boring but efficent way to play these roles. I would add some danger to these options, either an evil role which can pretend to be mayor/marshall or a way for mafia to use information against them (like vent from epicmafia).

Originally Posted by Dagaen

Obviously cheaters, leavers, trolls and people who can't read:P

Oh, mechanical-wise?

1. Marshall. The only proper way to use it is when town knows for sure that 2+ people are 100% bad guys. So in high levels game Marshall is just a Citizen with auto-confirm option, in every other it just helps Mafias. Now, I don't want to say that Marshall should be buffed, because weaker roles are fine with me (I love Citizens!), but Marshall just encourages town to random lynch and I don't think Town really needs it. Perhaps after revealing day should be prolonged so town doesn't feel forced to make rush decisions? Or if majority of lynched players were town-aligned random guilty voter will become demoted into Citizen? I really don't have better ideas now, but I hate Marshall for making random lynches easier.

2. Some roles from epicmafia are so awesome they should be implemented. E.g. Angel (neutral benign with superior healing ability who wins when person he's protecting survives till the end) or my favourite - Voodoo lady (at night choosing 4-letter word and target person, when this person says this word he dies instantly - in epicmafia it's Mafia role, but I think it should be evil neutral).

3. I wouldn't mind if Vigilante had dn option. I know it makes him easier to prove himself, but after being put in one group with SK and Mafioso I think he deserves it. Right now, after successful kill Vigilante can reveal himself and be proven town anyway, so why not?

4. I don't know if this was changed but I don't see Coroner in games anymore. Is that a bug? My Setup has few town randoms, Coroner is not excluded and after ~100 games I still haven't seen him once. Give me back my Coroner!

EDIT: I really had to force myself to think of those things. Obviously I also love the game as it is:P

1. The marshall is one of, if not the most powerful town role and does not need to be made stronger. You don't need to know multiple people are mafia, if there are conflicting reports or just not that many people he can be used to lynch both. As for making a random guiltier a citizen, I don't like the idea of randomizing it.

2. Wouldn't mind angel but voodoo, as it is in epicmafia, would result in good players talking in 3 letter words every game, which would just be annoying. It's why voodoo is not in any competitive epicmafia setups.

3. Anyone can claim they were the vig who shot unless there was a death note and I personally hate confirmed towns.

4. Add a confirmed janitor to your setups, coroners chance to spawn is increased with them.

Originally Posted by Boss

+1 to the marshall idea,

and give more points to people who play citizens, might bring more balanced games back to sc2 mafia.

This was already implemented https://wiki.sc2mafia.com/en/index.php/Citizen

Compared to the arsonist the ability is weaker and win condition easier. This adds up to the plague bearer impacting the game less than any other killing role, so I don't see how adding it would benefit the meta.

Compared to the arsonist the ability is weaker and win condition easier. This adds up to the plague bearer impacting the game less than any other killing role, so I don't see how adding it would benefit the meta.

Role: Splicer
Alignment: Killing Neutral
Ability: Every time a splicer helps lynch a target (vote up & guilty) he gains a charge. At night the splicer can use any number of charges to attack players, each attack consumes one charge.

Role: Freeman
Alignment: Town
Ability: Cannot talk and town cannot see Freemen's votes. If Freeman is attacked the night restarts with Freeman still alive. If Freeman is lynched the day restarts with Freeman sill alive. If Freeman is attacked or lynched on a loaded night/day all attackers/voters die.

Role: The Prisoner
Alignment: Neutral
Ability: Can target a played during the day. At night that player jails the prisoner and has the option of executing him. If a player is killed while jailing the prisoner, the prisoner wins. Cannot be lynched.

Role: Splicer
Alignment: Killing Neutral
Ability: Every time a splicer helps lynch a target (vote up & guilty) he gains a charge. At night the splicer can use any number of charges to attack players, each attack consumes one charge.

Role: Freeman
Alignment: Town
Ability: Cannot talk and town cannot see Freemen's votes. If Freeman is attacked the night restarts with Freeman still alive. If Freeman is lynched the day restarts with Freeman sill alive. If Freeman is attacked or lynched on a loaded night/day all attackers/voters die.

Role: The Prisoner
Alignment: Neutral
Ability: Can target a played during the day. At night that player jails the prisoner and has the option of executing him. If a player is killed while jailing the prisoner, the prisoner wins. Cannot be lynched.

If you're going to argue the definition of underpowered at least bother looking it up. "Underpowered - lacking sufficent mechanical, electrical, or other power." Therefore if "most of the people here acknowledge that the citizen LACKS POWER" then most people believe that the citizen is underpowered, even if they don't like me using that word.

Yes, the citizen is used to balance the strength of town and mafia but it is not the only way to balance and to pubs (the majority of mafia players) it is one of the worst. I think it might be nice to make the game more fun to pubs. Yes, you technically can perform some deductive reasoning with a town of citizens. However I feel I would enjoy being a citizen in a town of citizens as much as I would enjoy being a stump in a town of citizens.

To me the fun of mafia is the interplay between roles, not only button pressing or deductive reasoning. Fun situations are an escort being lynched because a consort has been blocking the sheriff the entire game or a doctor claiming vet so nobody targets him. However as has pointed out multiple times, the citizen does not interact with most roles.

If you're going to argue the definition of underpowered at least bother looking it up. "Underpowered - lacking sufficent mechanical, electrical, or other power." Therefore if "most of the people here acknowledge that the citizen LACKS POWER" then most people believe that the citizen is underpowered, even if they don't like me using that word.

Yes, the citizen is used to balance the strength of town and mafia but it is not the only way to balance and to pubs (the majority of mafia players) it is one of the worst. I think it might be nice to make the game more fun to pubs. Yes, you technically can perform some deductive reasoning with a town of citizens. However I feel I would enjoy being a citizen in a town of citizens as much as I would enjoy being a stump in a town of citizens.

To me the fun of mafia is the interplay between roles, not only button pressing or deductive reasoning. Fun situations are an escort being lynched because a consort has been blocking the sheriff the entire game or a doctor claiming vet so nobody targets him. However as has pointed out multiple times, the citizen does not interact with most roles.

[QUOTE=Slaol;330458]Maccabee suggests Citizen would be shot down. Let me go ahead and answer my questions.

1) Will I enjoy playing this role in the game?
- Yes. Citizen is a completely and utter uninhibited entity of mafia. Mafia isn't about winning or losing, it isn't about night actions or power roles, it is about playing out the scene, like a movie, and using your analysis to make decisions. Citizen is limited by the player, and maximized by the player. It shows true skill, something a talented player will appreciate.

2) Is the role a combination of existing roles?
- No. Citizen is the base role, all other roles are adaptations of Citizen.

3) Will the role be useful to its alignment? (Is its underpowered?)
- Having a role that can't be confused by framer, can't be confused by bus driver, can't be confused by a beguiler, can't be confused by witch, has more invincibility than 33 of the roles in game, can be healed at night, is not at all likely to team kill, and can lead vocally without fear of being killed is not underpowered at all. Some roles are strong because they disregard all the negatives. Not to mention the most incredible win scenario in the game...

4) Is the role too easy to win with?(Is it overpowered?)
- Definitely not, it has no power except the players mind.

5) Is your role just a slight modification of an existing role?
- Yes. Take Mayor and give him the ability to survive 1+ night attacks, instead of 0.

6) Is your role based on chance?
- Heavily, 99% of the time people will refuse to play it because of lack of understanding.

7) Is your role supposed to be a joke?
- Yes. At evil roles expense.[/QUOTE]

Are you so engrained in your belief that citizen is necessary for the game that you can't even admit the citizen is underpowered? What i find most amusing about your responses is that they all apply to stump.

Originally Posted by Slaol

Maccabee suggests Citizen would be shot down. Let me go ahead and answer my questions.

1) Will I enjoy playing this role in the game?
- Yes. Citizen is a completely and utter uninhibited entity of mafia. Mafia isn't about winning or losing, it isn't about night actions or power roles, it is about playing out the scene, like a movie, and using your analysis to make decisions. Citizen is limited by the player, and maximized by the player. It shows true skill, something a talented player will appreciate.

2) Is the role a combination of existing roles?
- No. Citizen is the base role, all other roles are adaptations of Citizen.

3) Will the role be useful to its alignment? (Is its underpowered?)
- Having a role that can't be confused by framer, can't be confused by bus driver, can't be confused by a beguiler, can't be confused by witch, has more invincibility than 33 of the roles in game, can be healed at night, is not at all likely to team kill, and can lead vocally without fear of being killed is not underpowered at all. Some roles are strong because they disregard all the negatives. Not to mention the most incredible win scenario in the game...

4) Is the role too easy to win with?(Is it overpowered?)
- Definitely not, it has no power except the players mind.

5) Is your role just a slight modification of an existing role?
- Yes. Take Mayor and give him the ability to survive 1+ night attacks, instead of 0.

6) Is your role based on chance?
- Heavily, 99% of the time people will refuse to play it because of lack of understanding.

7) Is your role supposed to be a joke?
- Yes. At evil roles expense.

Are you so engrained in your belief that citizen is necessary for the game that you can't even admit the citizen is underpowered? What i find most amusing about your responses is that they all apply to stump.

I believe that the citizen should be removed from sc2mafia. It was an important role during early development and the people in this forum seem to falsely believe that it is still important.

What would happen if citizen had never been implemented and someone proposed it now? Well let's look at [url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/18787-How-to-suggest-a-role[/url].

1) Will I enjoy playing this role in the game?
No, I don't enjoy being an underpowered role.

2) Is the role a combination of existing roles?
Citizen is a weaker survivor. Less vests with more restrictive win conditions, even with the tie breaking condition.

3) Will the role be useful to its alignment? (Is its underpowered?)
Yes, the primary tole of the citizen is to weaken the town team.

The role would be shot down!

I believe that the citizen should be removed from sc2mafia. It was an important role during early development and the people in this forum seem to falsely believe that it is still important.

What would happen if citizen had never been implemented and someone proposed it now? Well let's look at https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...suggest-a-role.

1) Will I enjoy playing this role in the game?
No, I don't enjoy being an underpowered role.

2) Is the role a combination of existing roles?
Citizen is a weaker survivor. Less vests with more restrictive win conditions, even with the tie breaking condition.

3) Will the role be useful to its alignment? (Is its underpowered?)
Yes, the primary tole of the citizen is to weaken the town team.

The role would be shot down!

1. Please learn to type in full sentences. Reading what you write is always confusing. Don't blame other people for not understanding your posts.

2. It seems that you are complaining that you lost in a 1 v 5 situation due to a moderate amount of teamwork. The town working together against a mafia is in no way cheating. In fact, if a member of the town refuses to work together then they are gamethrowing. While you might feel frustrated this post comes off as complaining that other players did not gamethrow.

1. Please learn to type in full sentences. Reading what you write is always confusing. Don't blame other people for not understanding your posts.

2. It seems that you are complaining that you lost in a 1 v 5 situation due to a moderate amount of teamwork. The town working together against a mafia is in no way cheating. In fact, if a member of the town refuses to work together then they are gamethrowing. While you might feel frustrated this post comes off as complaining that other players did not gamethrow.

[QUOTE=cxx;327306]It is random on purpose.[/QUOTE]

What purpose?

Originally Posted by cxx

It is random on purpose.

What purpose?

you could just play to have fun, which doesn't depend on the number of hats

you could just play to have fun, which doesn't depend on the number of hats

Remove option 2 (immune to death) or change the win condition. Otherwise if option 2 is on then this role does everything survivor can do plus more.

Remove option 2 (immune to death) or change the win condition. Otherwise if option 2 is on then this role does everything survivor can do plus more.

Pretty sure this isn't against the rules. I've executed a mafia night 1 (acted afk) then told the person I jailed night 2(who turned out to be mafia) that his ally had sold his team out in an attempt to be released. Second player raged hard and stayed until the end of the game accusing me of cheating, but nothing came out of it. Fun game.

Pretty sure this isn't against the rules. I've executed a mafia night 1 (acted afk) then told the person I jailed night 2(who turned out to be mafia) that his ally had sold his team out in an attempt to be released. Second player raged hard and stayed until the end of the game accusing me of cheating, but nothing came out of it. Fun game.

You need to consider achievements
Forever Alone - 175
Incognito - 75
Hammer and Sickle - 125
Happily Ever After - 150
Flawless Victory - 50
Divine Guidance - 150
Last of Kin - 75
State Religion - 50
Suicide Hotline - 125
Disco Inferno - 150
Corleone - 75
Total:1200

30 Role Wins - 30 * 25 = 750
Half Roles - 100
Half Town Roles - 100
Half Neutral Roles - 75
Half Mafia Roles - 75
All Town Roles - 150
All Neutral Roles - 100
All Mafia Roles - 100
All Roles - 500
Total: 1950

Sum = 3150 points
(I counted all the role achievements since they could be gotten before the new role updates)

So if we assume all these achievements were gotten before 200 wins (quite likely) your estimate of 8020 points adjusted would be 8020+3150=11170 which isn't terribly far off.

You need to consider achievements
Forever Alone - 175
Incognito - 75
Hammer and Sickle - 125
Happily Ever After - 150
Flawless Victory - 50
Divine Guidance - 150
Last of Kin - 75
State Religion - 50
Suicide Hotline - 125
Disco Inferno - 150
Corleone - 75
Total:1200

30 Role Wins - 30 * 25 = 750
Half Roles - 100
Half Town Roles - 100
Half Neutral Roles - 75
Half Mafia Roles - 75
All Town Roles - 150
All Neutral Roles - 100
All Mafia Roles - 100
All Roles - 500
Total: 1950

Sum = 3150 points
(I counted all the role achievements since they could be gotten before the new role updates)

So if we assume all these achievements were gotten before 200 wins (quite likely) your estimate of 8020 points adjusted would be 8020+3150=11170 which isn't terribly far off.

Why not change it so that every night the don can call a hit. Then all players with a hit on them are attacked every night.

Then Dons would not be able to kill n1 or kill immune roles but would force docs and bgs to continuously save important players.

Why not change it so that every night the don can call a hit. Then all players with a hit on them are attacked every night.

Then Dons would not be able to kill n1 or kill immune roles but would force docs and bgs to continuously save important players.

Godfather + mafia who is immune at night and can heal = all mafia immune to death at night, making vig and sk useless against mafia

Veteran mafia = giving mafia a player as strong as mass murderer.

Godfather + mafia who is immune at night and can heal = all mafia immune to death at night, making vig and sk useless against mafia

Veteran mafia = giving mafia a player as strong as mass murderer.

Can the map be edited so living players are not notified when dead players leave, at least until they die? I've seen many dead mafia member leave when a player is put on stand and thought well that's pretty suspicious.

Can the map be edited so living players are not notified when dead players leave, at least until they die? I've seen many dead mafia member leave when a player is put on stand and thought well that's pretty suspicious.

[QUOTE=Damus_Graves;315738]Coroner is best role.
Sorry but its true. Coroner has many uses that are not realized by the player base today.[/QUOTE]

The fact coroner was removed from town investigative, the option to exclude coroner from town random (an option only shared by citizen), and his pairing with janitor really proves that the coroner is weaker than sheriff, invest, lookout, or detective.

Also I'm reading the wiki which says that the spy can hear mafia chat, is this still true?

Originally Posted by Damus_Graves

Coroner is best role.
Sorry but its true. Coroner has many uses that are not realized by the player base today.

The fact coroner was removed from town investigative, the option to exclude coroner from town random (an option only shared by citizen), and his pairing with janitor really proves that the coroner is weaker than sheriff, invest, lookout, or detective.

Also I'm reading the wiki which says that the spy can hear mafia chat, is this still true?

[QUOTE=Deantwo;315578]your not really talking about replacements... more like changes...

removing a role from the game isn't really easy... as whatever role we replace it with will be in the same "spot" as the former role... so anyone with a "Coroner win" will automatically get the "Cop win" instead... (at least per my understanding of this)

as for the suggestions them self...
the Cop is overpowered... at least while he's able to check Mafia and Neutral -Randoms...
the Informant just sounds super confusing... i mean won't the Mafia know that there's something wrong the moment there's 4 people talking at night when only 3 mafia are listed?

to be fair... both Coroner and Spy work fine as they are... they just aren't just used cause pub hate the roles...

PS: Spy has just lost he's ability to hear PMs anyway[/QUOTE]


Coroners and now spies are the two weakest roles apart from citizen so I want to give them additional functionality but since it didn't line up with the names I decided to replace the names.

I agree the cop might be overpowered if he could check all three groups which is why I made them options. However since you can only check 1 random per day it seems to be as useful as any other investigative role especially since a cop is useless if mafia claim a role that isn't a random.

The presence of an informant is meant to be obvious, mafia are even alerted that there is one before they type. The spy originally could hear night chat but was not announced and that version just made it so mafia targeted and didn't talk at night otherwise. However the informant makes mafia chat and mafia actions anonymous and adds the informant as an active participant.

For instance consider the following situations:
1) If there is a godfather, an informant, and a janitor, then the informant and godfather would target two different players and the janitor would read Mafia 1 (godfather) targeted player 1 and Mafia 2 (informant) targeted player 2 but be uncertain of which to clean based on night action.
2) If there is a consig and an informant then if the informant figures out there is a consig then he can give false data during the night to contest the actual consig's data.

If pms are available then the mafia could communicate during the day which would encourage actual communication from the mafia to keep the informant out of the loop. If pms are not available then the mafia has to weigh the cost of giving information to the informant against the benefit of communcation.

[QUOTE=kyle1234513;315582]i would love a role like informant, just totally screw up the mafia at night, but maf are able to tell maf from town based on who they can and cant target. I mean if informant were unable to be targeted then its super OP being immune to the mafia. but if he isn't immune to maf hes super easy to spot and therefore irrelevant.[/QUOTE]

The mafia know who the other mafia are based on mafia card but their names are anonymous at night and they can't exactly say im player 1, the godfather killing player 2 while an informant is listening. The informant is targetable but again, the names in the mafia chat would all be anonymous so it would not be easy to figure out who it is.

Originally Posted by Deantwo

your not really talking about replacements... more like changes...

removing a role from the game isn't really easy... as whatever role we replace it with will be in the same "spot" as the former role... so anyone with a "Coroner win" will automatically get the "Cop win" instead... (at least per my understanding of this)

as for the suggestions them self...
the Cop is overpowered... at least while he's able to check Mafia and Neutral -Randoms...
the Informant just sounds super confusing... i mean won't the Mafia know that there's something wrong the moment there's 4 people talking at night when only 3 mafia are listed?

to be fair... both Coroner and Spy work fine as they are... they just aren't just used cause pub hate the roles...

PS: Spy has just lost he's ability to hear PMs anyway

Coroners and now spies are the two weakest roles apart from citizen so I want to give them additional functionality but since it didn't line up with the names I decided to replace the names.

I agree the cop might be overpowered if he could check all three groups which is why I made them options. However since you can only check 1 random per day it seems to be as useful as any other investigative role especially since a cop is useless if mafia claim a role that isn't a random.

The presence of an informant is meant to be obvious, mafia are even alerted that there is one before they type. The spy originally could hear night chat but was not announced and that version just made it so mafia targeted and didn't talk at night otherwise. However the informant makes mafia chat and mafia actions anonymous and adds the informant as an active participant.

For instance consider the following situations:
1) If there is a godfather, an informant, and a janitor, then the informant and godfather would target two different players and the janitor would read Mafia 1 (godfather) targeted player 1 and Mafia 2 (informant) targeted player 2 but be uncertain of which to clean based on night action.
2) If there is a consig and an informant then if the informant figures out there is a consig then he can give false data during the night to contest the actual consig's data.

If pms are available then the mafia could communicate during the day which would encourage actual communication from the mafia to keep the informant out of the loop. If pms are not available then the mafia has to weigh the cost of giving information to the informant against the benefit of communcation.

Originally Posted by kyle1234513

i would love a role like informant, just totally screw up the mafia at night, but maf are able to tell maf from town based on who they can and cant target. I mean if informant were unable to be targeted then its super OP being immune to the mafia. but if he isn't immune to maf hes super easy to spot and therefore irrelevant.

The mafia know who the other mafia are based on mafia card but their names are anonymous at night and they can't exactly say im player 1, the godfather killing player 2 while an informant is listening. The informant is targetable but again, the names in the mafia chat would all be anonymous so it would not be easy to figure out who it is.

Getting town to lynch a mafia... that must have been hard.

Getting town to lynch a mafia... that must have been hard.

[B]Role name: [COLOR="#00CC00"]Cop[/COLOR][/B]
[B]Description:[/B] Part of the local law enforcement who keeps track of the town in times of peace and investigates murders.
[B]Alignment:[/B] Town
[B]Abilities:[/B] Check dead player or a random on role list.
[B]Details:[/B]
Can only perform one action
Checking a dead player returns the role, last will, and all the targets visited by player (both targets if more than one is visited)
Checking a random on role list returns the role it was randomed as
Does not appear to visit anyone to detective/agent
[B]Host Options:[/B]
Can check town randoms (Default Y)
Can check mafia randoms (Default N)
Can check neutral randoms (Default N)
[B]Pros:[/B] Buffed version of the coroner with a second ability that is useful in almost any game
[B]Cons:[/B] Probably difficult to code
[B]
Role name: [COLOR="#00CC00"]Informant[/COLOR][/B]
[B]Alignment:[/B] Town
[B]Abilities:[/B] Disrupts mafia chat and acts like a mafia
[B]Details:[/B]
1) Mafia are alerted that there is an informant
2) Can participate in mafia chat and pretend to target a player during the night
3) During night chat mafia and informant are anonomyous (Names replaced by Mafia # where the # changes every night) and actions generalized (Mafia # targets <player>)
[B]Notes:[/B]
Does not visit anyone or even appear to visit anyone to lookout/detective/agent
Does not affect the targeting of mafia members (ex: gf still cannot kill mafia)
[B]Metagame:[/B]
Like the current spy the informant cannot see pms but he can see all mafia targets (although unlike spy he cannot tell which target is the kill target). In addition the informant can hear the mafia chat and attempt to misdirect them during the night. The mafia are however informed that there is an informant so they can avoid giving out information unless they decide it is necessary. In addition enabling pms in the presence of an informant would allow the mafia to plan for the night during the day, making enabling pms beneficial to both town and mafia.

Role name: Cop
Description: Part of the local law enforcement who keeps track of the town in times of peace and investigates murders.
Alignment: Town
Abilities: Check dead player or a random on role list.
Details:
Can only perform one action
Checking a dead player returns the role, last will, and all the targets visited by player (both targets if more than one is visited)
Checking a random on role list returns the role it was randomed as
Does not appear to visit anyone to detective/agent
Host Options:
Can check town randoms (Default Y)
Can check mafia randoms (Default N)
Can check neutral randoms (Default N)
Pros: Buffed version of the coroner with a second ability that is useful in almost any game
Cons: Probably difficult to code

Role name: Informant
Alignment: Town
Abilities: Disrupts mafia chat and acts like a mafia
Details:
1) Mafia are alerted that there is an informant
2) Can participate in mafia chat and pretend to target a player during the night
3) During night chat mafia and informant are anonomyous (Names replaced by Mafia # where the # changes every night) and actions generalized (Mafia # targets )
Notes:
Does not visit anyone or even appear to visit anyone to lookout/detective/agent
Does not affect the targeting of mafia members (ex: gf still cannot kill mafia)
Metagame:
Like the current spy the informant cannot see pms but he can see all mafia targets (although unlike spy he cannot tell which target is the kill target). In addition the informant can hear the mafia chat and attempt to misdirect them during the night. The mafia are however informed that there is an informant so they can avoid giving out information unless they decide it is necessary. In addition enabling pms in the presence of an informant would allow the mafia to plan for the night during the day, making enabling pms beneficial to both town and mafia.

There are too many potential problems with blacklisting groups but I don't see the problem with preferring groups.

There are too many potential problems with blacklisting groups but I don't see the problem with preferring groups.

[QUOTE=Damus_Graves;314561]
Off topic. If you wanna complain about the new roles or you want to complain about the voters please go to a different thread.
[/QUOTE]

How can we complain in the relevant thread when they keep getting closed after a day because they have already been brought up?

Originally Posted by Damus_Graves

Off topic. If you wanna complain about the new roles or you want to complain about the voters please go to a different thread.

How can we complain in the relevant thread when they keep getting closed after a day because they have already been brought up?

Thanks cxx for pointing out how current achievements are counterproductive, don't really see how that makes my argument invalid when I believe those should never have been implemented in the first place.

Deantwo and TheComedian the problem with the current "fun" and good play achievements is that they negatively influence the meta. For instance due to the towering inferno achievement arsonists when from being meh to not killing players even when they had 3 doused unless they had the achievement.

Cryptonic, unlike most mafia games sc2mafia is specifically designed to avoid luck, that's why the jester suicide is such a problem.

Thanks cxx for pointing out how current achievements are counterproductive, don't really see how that makes my argument invalid when I believe those should never have been implemented in the first place.

Deantwo and TheComedian the problem with the current "fun" and good play achievements is that they negatively influence the meta. For instance due to the towering inferno achievement arsonists when from being meh to not killing players even when they had 3 doused unless they had the achievement.

Cryptonic, unlike most mafia games sc2mafia is specifically designed to avoid luck, that's why the jester suicide is such a problem.

[QUOTE=cxx;314400]You would need to save it in the bank file, therefore sacrificing one entry (which should be possible, I guess, but somehow chaotic).

You would need to modify the bank file at the beginning at the game once the blacklist is used and the game is started. You would need the same effort to implement this as to implement an actual solution to the problem.

This is only relevant to players above 10k points (and below 20k), which (at least on EU) are the clear minority of players.

Finally, it does absolutely nothing to prevent players from rolequitting.[/QUOTE]

Saving and editing one bit of a file is not difficult or costly, same difficulty and cost as adding an achievement.

This would be most relevant to players with less than 10k points since it would give them 1 blacklist slot where they previously had 0. As stated previously this would rewards players for staying on a game to game basis while simultaneously removing complaints about getting the same role every game. If you haven't noticed players with 10k points are less likely to role quit because they have the option to not be roles they dislike.

This would be better than points which require alot more game than most people will play to have any actual effect on the game while all this would require is that the player completes the previous game.

Originally Posted by cxx

You would need to save it in the bank file, therefore sacrificing one entry (which should be possible, I guess, but somehow chaotic).

You would need to modify the bank file at the beginning at the game once the blacklist is used and the game is started. You would need the same effort to implement this as to implement an actual solution to the problem.

This is only relevant to players above 10k points (and below 20k), which (at least on EU) are the clear minority of players.

Finally, it does absolutely nothing to prevent players from rolequitting.

Saving and editing one bit of a file is not difficult or costly, same difficulty and cost as adding an achievement.

This would be most relevant to players with less than 10k points since it would give them 1 blacklist slot where they previously had 0. As stated previously this would rewards players for staying on a game to game basis while simultaneously removing complaints about getting the same role every game. If you haven't noticed players with 10k points are less likely to role quit because they have the option to not be roles they dislike.

This would be better than points which require alot more game than most people will play to have any actual effect on the game while all this would require is that the player completes the previous game.

simple because blackmail and save already exists.

solution because it rewards players for staying on a game to game basis while simultaneously removing complaints about getting the same role every game.

simple because blackmail and save already exists.

solution because it rewards players for staying on a game to game basis while simultaneously removing complaints about getting the same role every game.

Simple solution: reward players who completed a game with one (additional) blackmail slot that can only be used next game. When next game starts tell the player whether or not this slot is available.

Simple solution: reward players who completed a game with one (additional) blackmail slot that can only be used next game. When next game starts tell the player whether or not this slot is available.

Personally I think the only achievements that should exist are "win X role Y number of times". Any other achievement can encourage bad play, for instance in your list.

[QUOTE=TheComedian;313201]
[B]Here is some inspirations for new achievements:[/B]

[U]Towns:[/U]
— Citizen: Get attacked and survive the night you used your vest.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]citizens will ask to be shot by vig
[/COLOR]— Doctor: Save someone while also being saved yourself.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]doctors will want to be attacked
[/COLOR]— Doctor: Save someone from cult conversion.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]doctors will want to target people who are likely for cult conversion (which are unlikely to be attacked)
[/COLOR]— Doctor: Save 4 times in one game.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]doctor will try to get vig to shot people or players to target vet just to save them
[/COLOR]— Escort: Win the game with a stalemate.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]escorts will drag out games
[/COLOR]— Bodyguard: Save someone Night 1 ("So Predictable"-achievement)
[COLOR="#FF0000"]not skill based
[/COLOR]— Detective: Track a killer that attacks you.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]detective will want to be attacked by killer, even if it kills them
[/COLOR]— Detective: Track a killer and get him lynched the next day. Do this twice in one game.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]detective will track players already known to be evil
[/COLOR]— Lookout: Track someone who died, and get the killer lynched next day, do this twice in one game.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]lookout will try to get vig and jailor lynched
[/COLOR]— Investigator: Investigate a Mafia, Neutral Killer or Neutral evil role and get them lynched next day. Do this 3 times in one game.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]investigator will investigate players already known to be evil
[/COLOR]— Sherif: Investigate a Mafia, Neutral Killer or Neutral evil role and get them lynched next day. Do this 3 times in one game.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]sheriffs will investigate players already known to be evil
[/COLOR]— Jailor: Use 2 or more executes without killing a town.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]jailors will be encouraged to execute
[/COLOR]— Vigilante: Use 2 or more shots without killing a town.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]vigs will ask for doctors to heal players so nobody dies
[/COLOR]— Veteran: Kill 2 or more players in one night, without killing a town.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]veterans will be encouraged to go on alert earlier, when both mafia and town are more likely to visit
[/COLOR]— Mason & Mason Leader: Kill 3 cults in one game.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]this is already an achievement
[/COLOR]— Marshall: *Just remove this role please! There are better suggestions!*
— Stump: *Just remove this role please!*


[U]Mafia:[/U]
— Framer: Frame a town, and see him lynched the next day. Do this twice in a game.
[COLOR="#00FF00"][COLOR="#FF0000"]framer will frame witch and get her lynched
[/COLOR][/COLOR]— Beguiler: Avoid death by hiding behind a non-mafia, that then dies instead.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]beguiler will announce he is mafia and get vig to shot him then get lynched next day
[/COLOR]— Blackmailer: Pretend to be blackmailed by writing "I am blackmailed." when lynched, and survive the lynch vote.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]blackmailer will want to be put on stand
[/COLOR]— Blackmailer: See a blackmailed player getting lynched while unable to talk during trial.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]blackmailer will put all his effort into getting his target lynched and not care if he himself gets lynched the next day
[/COLOR]—*Consort: Block the same player 5 times in a game.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]consort will continue blocking the same player, even if they are not a threat
[/COLOR]— Disguiser: Disguise yourself as a revealed Mayor or Marshall and survive to the end.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]encourages disguiser to disguise as mayor or marshall instead of threatening roles
[/COLOR]— Godfather: Write a different Death Note on each 5 victims, in one game.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]nothing to do with how well you are doing
[/COLOR]— Mafioso: Survive by getting healed by a doctor.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]mafioso will want to be attacked
[/COLOR]— Janitor: Sanitize a mafia.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]janitor will target mafia instead of actually doing his job
[/COLOR]— Kidnapper: Execute a revealed Mayor or Marshall.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]kidnapper will jail and execute revealed over better targets
[/COLOR]— Kidnapper: Jail a teammate Mafia and save him from an attack.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]really? kidnapper encouraged to jail mafia...
[/COLOR]— Consigliere: Two times in one game, escape a lynch by convincing town to inno you.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]consig encouraged to be put on stand
[/COLOR]— Agent: Two times in one game, escape a lynch by convincing town to inno you.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]agent encourage to be put on stand
[/COLOR]
[U]Neutrals:[/U]
— Jester: Annoy players 6 times in one game, and still get lynched.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]jester encouraged to annoy even if possibly detrimental
[/COLOR]— Jester: Get lynched the last day.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]jester won't want to get lynched until end of game
[/COLOR]— Jester: Kill another Jester.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]jester's kill is chance not skill. all this encourages is getting other jester to vote you and multiple jesters in one setup
[/COLOR]— Witch Doctor: Save a cultist from death.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]witch doctor will heal cultists instead of trying to convert
[/COLOR]— Witch Doctor: Convert two players to cult, in one game, by saving them from death.

— Amnesiac: Remember you where Jester, and win by getting lynched.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]amnesiac will not remember a role certain to win
[/COLOR]— Amnesiac: Win without using your ability.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]amnesiac encouraged to play as vestless survivor
[/COLOR]— Amnesiac: Convert to a team that has otherwise lost, and win the game (e.g. convert to cult or mafia, when all other cults or mafia's are dead).
[COLOR="#FF0000"]amnesiac encouraged to remember a losing team
[/COLOR]— Mass Murderer: Kill 3 players in one night.
— Mass Murderer: Kill 4 players in one night.
— Serial Killer: Kill 5 players, one each night without interruption.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]serial killer will continue killing even if he knows he is being watched by detective/agent
[/COLOR]— Serial Killer: Win without killing anyone.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]serial killer will not kill
[/COLOR]— Witch: Control a Doctor, Witch Doctor or Bodyguard to save you from an attack.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]witch will only control doctors, witch doctor, or bg
[/COLOR]— Witch: Control a Vigilante to shoot himself.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]witch will only make targets to target self
[/COLOR]— Witch: Control a town with no visit ability to visit a Veteran on alert.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]witch will try to get this even if it would be better to control a doc to save herself
[/COLOR]— Survivor: Win without using any vests.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]survivors will not use vests
[/COLOR]— Survivor: Get attacked and survive 3 times in one game.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]survivors will try to get attacked and healed if they have no vests
[/COLOR]— Neutral Killer: Survive a trial lynch 3 times in one game.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]neutral killer encouraged to get on stand
[/COLOR]— Neutral Evil: Watch town lynch 3 towns in a row after last mafia died.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]cultists will stop converting if there are 2 cults and 3 town left
[/COLOR]
[U]General:[/U]
— Win streaks achievements.



And finally...
Please add an -achievement or -a to show a popup window with scroll to see all achievements available + which you already earned.
Then we don't have to visit wiki.sc2mafia.com.


I hope Dark.Revenant will consider adding more achievements to the game!

Thanks for reading![/QUOTE]

Personally I think the only achievements that should exist are "win X role Y number of times". Any other achievement can encourage bad play, for instance in your list.

Originally Posted by TheComedian

Here is some inspirations for new achievements:

Towns:
— Citizen: Get attacked and survive the night you used your vest.
citizens will ask to be shot by vig
— Doctor: Save someone while also being saved yourself.
doctors will want to be attacked
— Doctor: Save someone from cult conversion.
doctors will want to target people who are likely for cult conversion (which are unlikely to be attacked)
— Doctor: Save 4 times in one game.
doctor will try to get vig to shot people or players to target vet just to save them
— Escort: Win the game with a stalemate.
escorts will drag out games
— Bodyguard: Save someone Night 1 ("So Predictable"-achievement)
not skill based
— Detective: Track a killer that attacks you.
detective will want to be attacked by killer, even if it kills them
— Detective: Track a killer and get him lynched the next day. Do this twice in one game.
detective will track players already known to be evil
— Lookout: Track someone who died, and get the killer lynched next day, do this twice in one game.
lookout will try to get vig and jailor lynched
— Investigator: Investigate a Mafia, Neutral Killer or Neutral evil role and get them lynched next day. Do this 3 times in one game.
investigator will investigate players already known to be evil
— Sherif: Investigate a Mafia, Neutral Killer or Neutral evil role and get them lynched next day. Do this 3 times in one game.
sheriffs will investigate players already known to be evil
— Jailor: Use 2 or more executes without killing a town.
jailors will be encouraged to execute
— Vigilante: Use 2 or more shots without killing a town.
vigs will ask for doctors to heal players so nobody dies
— Veteran: Kill 2 or more players in one night, without killing a town.
veterans will be encouraged to go on alert earlier, when both mafia and town are more likely to visit
— Mason & Mason Leader: Kill 3 cults in one game.
this is already an achievement
— Marshall: *Just remove this role please! There are better suggestions!*
— Stump: *Just remove this role please!*


Mafia:
— Framer: Frame a town, and see him lynched the next day. Do this twice in a game.
framer will frame witch and get her lynched
— Beguiler: Avoid death by hiding behind a non-mafia, that then dies instead.
beguiler will announce he is mafia and get vig to shot him then get lynched next day
— Blackmailer: Pretend to be blackmailed by writing "I am blackmailed." when lynched, and survive the lynch vote.
blackmailer will want to be put on stand
— Blackmailer: See a blackmailed player getting lynched while unable to talk during trial.
blackmailer will put all his effort into getting his target lynched and not care if he himself gets lynched the next day
—*Consort: Block the same player 5 times in a game.
consort will continue blocking the same player, even if they are not a threat
— Disguiser: Disguise yourself as a revealed Mayor or Marshall and survive to the end.
encourages disguiser to disguise as mayor or marshall instead of threatening roles
— Godfather: Write a different Death Note on each 5 victims, in one game.
nothing to do with how well you are doing
— Mafioso: Survive by getting healed by a doctor.
mafioso will want to be attacked
— Janitor: Sanitize a mafia.
janitor will target mafia instead of actually doing his job
— Kidnapper: Execute a revealed Mayor or Marshall.
kidnapper will jail and execute revealed over better targets
— Kidnapper: Jail a teammate Mafia and save him from an attack.
really? kidnapper encouraged to jail mafia...
— Consigliere: Two times in one game, escape a lynch by convincing town to inno you.
consig encouraged to be put on stand
— Agent: Two times in one game, escape a lynch by convincing town to inno you.
agent encourage to be put on stand

Neutrals:
— Jester: Annoy players 6 times in one game, and still get lynched.
jester encouraged to annoy even if possibly detrimental
— Jester: Get lynched the last day.
jester won't want to get lynched until end of game
— Jester: Kill another Jester.
jester's kill is chance not skill. all this encourages is getting other jester to vote you and multiple jesters in one setup
— Witch Doctor: Save a cultist from death.
witch doctor will heal cultists instead of trying to convert
— Witch Doctor: Convert two players to cult, in one game, by saving them from death.

— Amnesiac: Remember you where Jester, and win by getting lynched.
amnesiac will not remember a role certain to win
— Amnesiac: Win without using your ability.
amnesiac encouraged to play as vestless survivor
— Amnesiac: Convert to a team that has otherwise lost, and win the game (e.g. convert to cult or mafia, when all other cults or mafia's are dead).
amnesiac encouraged to remember a losing team
— Mass Murderer: Kill 3 players in one night.
— Mass Murderer: Kill 4 players in one night.
— Serial Killer: Kill 5 players, one each night without interruption.
serial killer will continue killing even if he knows he is being watched by detective/agent
— Serial Killer: Win without killing anyone.
serial killer will not kill
— Witch: Control a Doctor, Witch Doctor or Bodyguard to save you from an attack.
witch will only control doctors, witch doctor, or bg
— Witch: Control a Vigilante to shoot himself.
witch will only make targets to target self
— Witch: Control a town with no visit ability to visit a Veteran on alert.
witch will try to get this even if it would be better to control a doc to save herself
— Survivor: Win without using any vests.
survivors will not use vests
— Survivor: Get attacked and survive 3 times in one game.
survivors will try to get attacked and healed if they have no vests
— Neutral Killer: Survive a trial lynch 3 times in one game.
neutral killer encouraged to get on stand
— Neutral Evil: Watch town lynch 3 towns in a row after last mafia died.
cultists will stop converting if there are 2 cults and 3 town left

General:
— Win streaks achievements.



And finally...
Please add an -achievement or -a to show a popup window with scroll to see all achievements available + which you already earned.
Then we don't have to visit wiki.sc2mafia.com.


I hope Dark.Revenant will consider adding more achievements to the game!

Thanks for reading!

I prefer strat 4. Asking for help on how to play attracts day attention while mafia are less likely too kill someone they think they can fool. When asked for role tell then you are an evil neutral and both town and mafia will lynch you.

I prefer strat 4. Asking for help on how to play attracts day attention while mafia are less likely too kill someone they think they can fool. When asked for role tell then you are an evil neutral and both town and mafia will lynch you.

[url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/17290-Point-Restoration-Thread-NEW-Please-request-point-restorations-here[/url]

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...torations-here

In terms of advantages, if there is a gf & mafioso then if one is jailed the other will kill anyways. However this combo has the disadvantage that if there is a gf & mafioso then if the mafioso is rbed by escort the mafia will not kill, which seems strange. Personally rather than remove mafioso from setups i'd like to see him buffed by a) making him immune to role blocks/jails or b) giving him the one use ability to ignore heals/immunity.

In terms of advantages, if there is a gf & mafioso then if one is jailed the other will kill anyways. However this combo has the disadvantage that if there is a gf & mafioso then if the mafioso is rbed by escort the mafia will not kill, which seems strange. Personally rather than remove mafioso from setups i'd like to see him buffed by a) making him immune to role blocks/jails or b) giving him the one use ability to ignore heals/immunity.

I suggested this when jester was paired with gf/mason leader/mayor and in light of the new pairing this thread no longer reflects my original intention. Please close it.

I suggested this when jester was paired with gf/mason leader/mayor and in light of the new pairing this thread no longer reflects my original intention. Please close it.

If the eraser targets someone who would normally die, do they really die? If they really die then does the eraser clear role anyways? If the eraser effect fails does he use a charge?

If the eraser targets someone who would normally die, do they really die? If they really die then does the eraser clear role anyways? If the eraser effect fails does he use a charge?

I feel like adding this option (Jester Option: Immune to Detection) would give hosts the ability to balance not suspicious roles on a setup to setup basis.

I feel like adding this option (Jester Option: Immune to Detection) would give hosts the ability to balance not suspicious roles on a setup to setup basis.

The 5/15 players being mafia with powers is unfair. For instance consider what would happen if mafia had a framer who successfully framed a player n1.
n1: first player dies
d1: second player framed and lynched, (helped by the fact there are 5 mafia voting him up)
n2: third player dies, sheriff/invest is framed
d2: fourth player (sheriff/invest) lynched
n3: fifth player dies
and mafia is 1/2 of all players.

The 5/15 players being mafia with powers is unfair. For instance consider what would happen if mafia had a framer who successfully framed a player n1.
n1: first player dies
d1: second player framed and lynched, (helped by the fact there are 5 mafia voting him up)
n2: third player dies, sheriff/invest is framed
d2: fourth player (sheriff/invest) lynched
n3: fifth player dies
and mafia is 1/2 of all players.

[b]Account Name:[/b] Frostwind
[b]Account ID:[/b] 1-S2-1-2029018
[b]In-Game Name:[/b] Meaning of "EZ" = Protoss

[b]Crimes Committed:[/b] Griefing/Game Throwing/Cheating

[b]Your Account Name:[/b] maccabbe

[b]Summary:[/b] Continuously heals mafia, defends them while accusing town, and not once votes to put up a single mafia against any evidence eventually costing town the game.

[b]Details:[/b]
Frostwind is a doctor:
Night 1: Heals 11 who is mafia
Night 2: Jailed claims doc
Day 3: Defends 11 who is mafia and accusing 8 of being executioner
Night 3: Heals 11 again
Night 3: In mafia 3 almost blackmails Frostwind but 6 tells him to instead blackmails someone else
Day 4: Defends 3 who is mafia and votes up 1 who is sheriff and has accused 3
Night 4: Heals 11 again while 3 is jailed and killed
Day 5: Ignores sheriff (now confirmed) who says 11 is mafia and votes up 13
Night 5: Heals 11 again
Day 6: refuses to vote up 11 and instead votes with mafia then against town
Night 6: Heals 11 again
Day 7: Refuses to put up 6 who is mafia even after he claims cit when cit is impossible

Account Name: Frostwind
Account ID: 1-S2-1-2029018
In-Game Name: Meaning of "EZ" = Protoss

Crimes Committed: Griefing/Game Throwing/Cheating

Your Account Name: maccabbe

Summary: Continuously heals mafia, defends them while accusing town, and not once votes to put up a single mafia against any evidence eventually costing town the game.

Details:
Frostwind is a doctor:
Night 1: Heals 11 who is mafia
Night 2: Jailed claims doc
Day 3: Defends 11 who is mafia and accusing 8 of being executioner
Night 3: Heals 11 again
Night 3: In mafia 3 almost blackmails Frostwind but 6 tells him to instead blackmails someone else
Day 4: Defends 3 who is mafia and votes up 1 who is sheriff and has accused 3
Night 4: Heals 11 again while 3 is jailed and killed
Day 5: Ignores sheriff (now confirmed) who says 11 is mafia and votes up 13
Night 5: Heals 11 again
Day 6: refuses to vote up 11 and instead votes with mafia then against town
Night 6: Heals 11 again
Day 7: Refuses to put up 6 who is mafia even after he claims cit when cit is impossible

Actually for the roles since order doesn't matter (a save with cit gf = gf cit) so you have to do a combination with repetition. For 11 town, 3 maf, 2 neut that would be [(11+23-1) nCr 11] * [(3+12-1) nCr 3]*[(2+13-1) nCr 2] = 6.41 * 10^12 or 6.41 trillion.

This ignores a whole bunch of things such as mayors, masons leaders, and gf being unique.

Actually for the roles since order doesn't matter (a save with cit gf = gf cit) so you have to do a combination with repetition. For 11 town, 3 maf, 2 neut that would be [(11+23-1) nCr 11] * [(3+12-1) nCr 3]*[(2+13-1) nCr 2] = 6.41 * 10^12 or 6.41 trillion.

This ignores a whole bunch of things such as mayors, masons leaders, and gf being unique.

[QUOTE=Chane;249017]imho this is a huge waste of coding space.[/QUOTE]

Actually this would be quite easy to do since there are currently only 3 options for neutral evil and neutral killer. Add exclude cultist to neutral evil and include cultist to neutral killer.

Originally Posted by Chane

imho this is a huge waste of coding space.

Actually this would be quite easy to do since there are currently only 3 options for neutral evil and neutral killer. Add exclude cultist to neutral evil and include cultist to neutral killer.

It seems like with the current randoms the standard save is 2 of the neutrals are sk/mm/arson (neutral killing) and witch/cult (neutral evil - all killing options) but arson+witch favors town while sk/mm+cult disfavors town.

Could you edit the randoms to allow sk/mm/cult and witch/arson?

It seems like with the current randoms the standard save is 2 of the neutrals are sk/mm/arson (neutral killing) and witch/cult (neutral evil - all killing options) but arson+witch favors town while sk/mm+cult disfavors town.

Could you edit the randoms to allow sk/mm/cult and witch/arson?

What is a VIP member?

What is a VIP member?

[b]Account Name:[/b] UnwashedBalls
[b]Account ID:[/b] 1-S2-1-511200
[b]In-Game Name:[/b] Stephano Travolta

[b]Crimes Committed:[/b] Game-Throwing

[b]Your Account Name:[/b] maccabbe
[b]Summary:[/b] Day 2 claimed to be sheriff and that he got mafia for 4 jailor, me, even though he was detective and followed 7. Admitted he was purposefully gamethrowing in jail and in his last will.

Account Name: UnwashedBalls
Account ID: 1-S2-1-511200
In-Game Name: Stephano Travolta

Crimes Committed: Game-Throwing

Your Account Name: maccabbe
Summary: Day 2 claimed to be sheriff and that he got mafia for 4 jailor, me, even though he was detective and followed 7. Admitted he was purposefully gamethrowing in jail and in his last will.