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Your save isn't unique. Your save is illegal.

Your save isn't unique. Your save is illegal.

I wonder what the staff thinks about adding a save with multiple mayors. This is something that is not possible via the editor, so I wonder what hack [MENTION=1910]lawson[/MENTION] used to do it.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28945[/ATTACH]

I wonder if [MENTION=29012]Auwt[/MENTION], [MENTION=5496]MrMostache[/MENTION], or any other staff have anything to say about Lawson using illegal saves.

I wonder what the staff thinks about adding a save with multiple mayors. This is something that is not possible via the editor, so I wonder what hack @lawson used to do it.



I wonder if @Auwt , @MrMostache , or any other staff have anything to say about Lawson using illegal saves.

What type of illegal manipulation did you do to get 2 mayors? I know you like to monkey around with the saves to force things that normally should not be allowed.

What type of illegal manipulation did you do to get 2 mayors? I know you like to monkey around with the saves to force things that normally should not be allowed.

[QUOTE=lawson;973397]You know, you're a real piece of work, Renegade. Supernoob RARELY hosts his own saves and usually passes, but when he does I guess that makes him subject to your flame?

Not only do you make fun of his save, but you also make fun of his clan and insult his character? You're trying to make him out to be a troll when I have literally never seen him troll, all because of his save?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28943[/ATTACH]

Not only does he offer to pass the save, he passes it to YOU, and now you're on the forums lambasting him? What a douche.[/QUOTE]

Do you know the history of the CHOOO clan? I bet you don't.

Originally Posted by lawson

You know, you're a real piece of work, Renegade. Supernoob RARELY hosts his own saves and usually passes, but when he does I guess that makes him subject to your flame?

Not only do you make fun of his save, but you also make fun of his clan and insult his character? You're trying to make him out to be a troll when I have literally never seen him troll, all because of his save?



Not only does he offer to pass the save, he passes it to YOU, and now you're on the forums lambasting him? What a douche.

Do you know the history of the CHOOO clan? I bet you don't.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28941[/ATTACH]

Renegade, why are you such a villain???

This is a perfectly acceptable save from Supernoob of the notorious "CHOOO" clan. Not surprised, considering their history and present. Shocker!

You have too much power to repick Renegade! And even when you did repick, this still got jammed through!

Renegade, why are you such a villain???

This is a perfectly acceptable save from Supernoob of the notorious "CHOOO" clan. Not surprised, considering their history and present. Shocker!

You have too much power to repick Renegade! And even when you did repick, this still got jammed through!

I will continue to bring awareness to poorly designed saves like yours, Etiennes, wakwaks, and others.

If that is toxic then I am proud to be toxic.

I will continue to bring awareness to poorly designed saves like yours, Etiennes, wakwaks, and others.

If that is toxic then I am proud to be toxic.

Do you really think it is at all fun to play on a triad team of two DF? You become effectively useless after firing. They are simply shiny trickets for a simpleton to throw 2 in their save for all the chaos. No thought given to their balance or how it feels to get entrapped on that team as one of them. Reminds me of the any random folk that like to throw in a single triad in a mafia save.

Wakwak's save is hidden shit save. Looks normal on the surface but he doesn't mention that he sets the jester chance so high that it is likely 3 of them will spawn. I am merely informing people of that fact. I'll give you credit at least you are more explicit with your "creativity".

I will continue to bring awareness of your troll saves and encourage people to repick you Law.

Do you really think it is at all fun to play on a triad team of two DF? You become effectively useless after firing. They are simply shiny trickets for a simpleton to throw 2 in their save for all the chaos. No thought given to their balance or how it feels to get entrapped on that team as one of them. Reminds me of the any random folk that like to throw in a single triad in a mafia save.

Wakwak's save is hidden shit save. Looks normal on the surface but he doesn't mention that he sets the jester chance so high that it is likely 3 of them will spawn. I am merely informing people of that fact. I'll give you credit at least you are more explicit with your "creativity".

I will continue to bring awareness of your troll saves and encourage people to repick you Law.

Lawson, and others who host dubious saves, refuse to even have a conversation about their saves and their balance. Talk about a hyper extreme minority, there is no attempt to even rationalize why they want these saves other than "oh look! shiny bauble DF let's throw two in for massive confusion and day shooting fun!".

Instant gratification types.

Lawson, and others who host dubious saves, refuse to even have a conversation about their saves and their balance. Talk about a hyper extreme minority, there is no attempt to even rationalize why they want these saves other than "oh look! shiny bauble DF let's throw two in for massive confusion and day shooting fun!".

Instant gratification types.

The solution to repick spam is to only allow repicks up to 3 times. After the third repick, the game defaults to standard and starts.

[QUOTE=lawson;973374]
People have been arguing over saves since the creation of this game. It doesn't matter WHAT your save is, someone will complain. Always. It could be a cookie cutter 933 and you'll hear "Not 8331?!??! SHIT SAVE!"
[/QUOTE]

False equivalence. People complaining about the difference between 933 and 8331 is minor. Looking at your latest creations and thinking this isn't even worth playing is a much bigger difference.

You use "cookie cutter" to undercut "standard" saves like 8331 and 933, but the fact is a lot more thought was put into the balance of those than your so called "creative" saves.

[QUOTE=lawson;973374]
How will new people ever get to enjoy the game if they get their saves repicked by one of these bullies?
[/QUOTE]

New people shouldn't be hosting saves.

[QUOTE=lawson;973374]
because even WITH these trolls trying to hijack my lobbies, they still don't succeed most of the time. That should tell you how many people actually dislike the saves.
[/QUOTE]

You actually do not give people the time to repick. So this assertion is invalid. Let's extend the time to repick to a full 30 seconds and see if any of your saves survive a simple majority of players. You use the quick start exploit to ram through your saves because you know they aren't popular.

The solution to repick spam is to only allow repicks up to 3 times. After the third repick, the game defaults to standard and starts.

Originally Posted by lawson

People have been arguing over saves since the creation of this game. It doesn't matter WHAT your save is, someone will complain. Always. It could be a cookie cutter 933 and you'll hear "Not 8331?!??! SHIT SAVE!"

False equivalence. People complaining about the difference between 933 and 8331 is minor. Looking at your latest creations and thinking this isn't even worth playing is a much bigger difference.

You use "cookie cutter" to undercut "standard" saves like 8331 and 933, but the fact is a lot more thought was put into the balance of those than your so called "creative" saves.

Originally Posted by lawson

How will new people ever get to enjoy the game if they get their saves repicked by one of these bullies?

New people shouldn't be hosting saves.

Originally Posted by lawson

because even WITH these trolls trying to hijack my lobbies, they still don't succeed most of the time. That should tell you how many people actually dislike the saves.

You actually do not give people the time to repick. So this assertion is invalid. Let's extend the time to repick to a full 30 seconds and see if any of your saves survive a simple majority of players. You use the quick start exploit to ram through your saves because you know they aren't popular.

Players such as "Law" have found a new way to ram their griefer troll saves through without giving the lobby any time to repick.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28935[/ATTACH]

If someone selects chaos mode, then switches to their save, they can start the game in half the time.

It is my opinion that this method to push through shitty saves that are likely to be repicked should be a punishable offense. Furthermore, in protest of this method, I will simply leave any game who's host uses it.

Players such as "Law" have found a new way to ram their griefer troll saves through without giving the lobby any time to repick.



If someone selects chaos mode, then switches to their save, they can start the game in half the time.

It is my opinion that this method to push through shitty saves that are likely to be repicked should be a punishable offense. Furthermore, in protest of this method, I will simply leave any game who's host uses it.

Rachyl

Rachyl

Account Name: SoulShaker
Account ID: 1-S2-1-10275542
In-Game Name: Top Hat Male

Crimes Committed: Griefing

Your Account Name: Renegade
Summary:

SoulShaker appears to be a new Rachyl alt, using similar language and threats of violence as Rachyl. After posting some threatening messages, SoulShaker takes the name Top Hot Male and then promptly quits the game.

Chat
00:07 SoulShaker renegade ill blow your head off with a shotgun.
01:12 SoulShaker go ahead and report me renefaggot. i have many more accounts......I will shoot your familys house im going there now.



[ATTACH]28923[/ATTACH]

Account Name: SoulShaker
Account ID: 1-S2-1-10275542
In-Game Name: Top Hat Male

Crimes Committed: Griefing

Your Account Name: Renegade
Summary:

SoulShaker appears to be a new Rachyl alt, using similar language and threats of violence as Rachyl. After posting some threatening messages, SoulShaker takes the name Top Hot Male and then promptly quits the game.

Chat
00:07 SoulShaker renegade ill blow your head off with a shotgun.
01:12 SoulShaker go ahead and report me renefaggot. i have many more accounts......I will shoot your familys house im going there now.

As soon as crier goes on the stand, they lose the ability to switch crier on and off.

If it was on when voted up, it stays on til day end. If it was off it stays off.

I've seen one of each example in the past 2 weeks. Both leading to criers getting lynched.

As soon as crier goes on the stand, they lose the ability to switch crier on and off.

If it was on when voted up, it stays on til day end. If it was off it stays off.

I've seen one of each example in the past 2 weeks. Both leading to criers getting lynched.

A terrible role that can't even win 1v1s.

[B]Bug has been reported for months, nothing done, game abandoned.[/B]

I'm not going to take the time to post a replay unless someone asks for it.

A terrible role that can't even win 1v1s.

Bug has been reported for months, nothing done, game abandoned.

I'm not going to take the time to post a replay unless someone asks for it.

[QUOTE=minnorobot;971956][SPOILER=minno reply]First off, I would like to say thank you to Frinkles for his work in updating this game, overall they have added some spice to the game and I have some suggestions to make it more balanced and some glaring flaws in the current design of the roles and balance of the game.
In my opinion, the electro should be able to either have an option to take one hit like the poisoner, or have an option to make it detection immune. The role just needs something right now. Its very hard to win when one of 3 mafia can just shoot you at any point they choose and you have no teammates. Being able to take a hit as the poisoner is nice, but comparing it to roles like an arson which is now actually nearly on par with mafia if it has strongest settings or the sk, it becomes obvious the electro definitely needs a buff and poisoner probably needs at least a slight one still. The goal of the game is to win so roles should have at least somewhat similar win rates, especially if it is for the same role type. Teams with more players should have a higher winrate in my opinion, but the disparity should not be as big as it is. For example the mafia should not be winning 3 times as much as the neutral killing, but if it is an electro the disparity is probably even bigger than that.

The neutral roles win rates really just feel out of whack. For example the lover just feels bad, like really bad compared to amne or survivor. I could be a lover which has to survive itself as well as its true love, or I could just be survivor who only has to survive itself and even gets vests. Or instead of being lover I could be amne and just become confirmed town after announcing my role before the game reveals it (or just become a role that is easily verifiable if this setting is off) alternatively I could just join the mafia. Now, I don't immediately lose if one of two people die in the game. In fact, I would now be on a team and could win even if I die. My chances of winning are very high if I just join whatever team was in the lead thereby increasing that team's advantage even further by being another confirmed (if town) member of that team. The lover is easily the worst neutral benign role in the entire game, the tooltip is very misleading as well. It says on "any night you choose" when in reality, you must choose somebody to love by night 3 or you automatically lose the game (unless you get culted or audited and win that way I suppose). The role definitely needs something to force you to choose by night 3 if the tooltip is going to straight up lie about what you can do. It should also force you to love your jailor/kidnapper if they jail you night 3 as that could also be an instant loss if you save your ability for night 3. As far as buffs go the lover should be able to heal its love every night in the game. Tbh it probably needs more to make it on par with survivor/amne but at least this would help.

Another glaring issue is how bad the winrates are for the neutral evils. The witch and auditor are the biggest victims. They are an evil role with no teammates meaning if they die or get voted off they lose, they also have virtually no survivability with the auditor having literally no survivability, at least the witch can control killings/heals to help themselves if they figure roles out. They are also completely dependent on the killing roles and have no means of doing so themselves. The evil roles actually all have fairly strong powers, but since they are so vulnerable and are dependent on other evils to do anything they are very weak roles. The cult and maybe the witchdoctor are the only evils that feels balanced in terms of its own winrate as it can make teammates so it won't auto lose if it dies. The judge feels almost up to par just because of its very strong power but like the auditor you are completely at the mercy and goodwill of the evil roles and will lose if anything at all kills you/betrays you.

Like seriously the witch and especially auditor are just so laughably bad winrate wise I'm surprised they haven't been given huge buffs. Let's look at all the auditor must accomplish almost all of which is out of their hands in order to win: they must avoid detection from the town lest they be lynched, easier said than done considering they can be caught by any town investigative role since they have corruption and people know they are audited except for the sheriff and to some degree the coroner, they must survive which is very hard as they have no survivability whatsoever and do not have any easy role fake claims that look suspicious unlike some evils such as kidnapper or consort so are likely to be lynched or killed by town killing roles, they must hope the other evil roles do well otherwise winning becomes almost impossible as they are unable to kill at night, finally (and tbh there is probably some bs against them I'm forgetting) they must hope the evils actually decide to let them win with them. It is shocking how over a third of the evils I play with decide to just kill me as (or even other auditors) the auditor after I did everything in my power to hand them the game on a silver platter and despite their mediocre gameplay and getting carried they just kill me and say lol at the end.

I would recommend at least one if not two of these buffs to the witch and auditor as the judge is probably fine (at least for now). Buff option one-give the auditor and witch a single attack block similar to the poisoner's. This would greatly help their survivability which is one of their biggest problems. Buff option two-let the auditor and witch become the deceased neutral killing's role if no evil killing roles are left in the game as well as no cult, also if they win it should still show as the witch/auditor wins so those achievements/win screens do not become impossible, alternatively you could just let them kill one person a night in place of their power but remain witch/auditor should there be no evil killing roles left. This would reduce their complete dependency on the killing evil roles in the game and would really help balance the roles. Buff option three-the witch and auditor can win with the neutral killing roles from beyond the grave and vice versa, the stipulation being that the auditor or witch must get their win screen shown for the neutral killing role to win from beyond the grave with the witch. This also should only go in effect if only one neutral killing role is in the game. This would help fix the problem with the discrepancies with the neutral evil and killing role's win rates being so low compared to other roles. There would be more to figure out with these new settings should they be implemented that I am not thinking of for example: what if an amne becomes the neutral killing, should the witch/auditor still be able to kill roles at night even though there is a killing role now?

Anyhow thanks for reading this long winded post and if you don't like these ideas that is perfectly ok. I know you already tried the witch night immunity thing and it didn't work but an attack block would be more in line with the role.[/SPOILER][/QUOTE]

Great feedback, thank you for contributing. Unfortunately, based on Frinckle's design philosophy, I doubt he will be interested in giving more roles night protection/ one shot auto vests. He believes that if someone with the ability to kill wants to kill you, that you should die. Unfortunately, this new philosophy does not mesh well with the long established meta around saves and neutral killing being NI.

Originally Posted by minnorobot

Spoiler : minno reply :

First off, I would like to say thank you to Frinkles for his work in updating this game, overall they have added some spice to the game and I have some suggestions to make it more balanced and some glaring flaws in the current design of the roles and balance of the game.
In my opinion, the electro should be able to either have an option to take one hit like the poisoner, or have an option to make it detection immune. The role just needs something right now. Its very hard to win when one of 3 mafia can just shoot you at any point they choose and you have no teammates. Being able to take a hit as the poisoner is nice, but comparing it to roles like an arson which is now actually nearly on par with mafia if it has strongest settings or the sk, it becomes obvious the electro definitely needs a buff and poisoner probably needs at least a slight one still. The goal of the game is to win so roles should have at least somewhat similar win rates, especially if it is for the same role type. Teams with more players should have a higher winrate in my opinion, but the disparity should not be as big as it is. For example the mafia should not be winning 3 times as much as the neutral killing, but if it is an electro the disparity is probably even bigger than that.

The neutral roles win rates really just feel out of whack. For example the lover just feels bad, like really bad compared to amne or survivor. I could be a lover which has to survive itself as well as its true love, or I could just be survivor who only has to survive itself and even gets vests. Or instead of being lover I could be amne and just become confirmed town after announcing my role before the game reveals it (or just become a role that is easily verifiable if this setting is off) alternatively I could just join the mafia. Now, I don't immediately lose if one of two people die in the game. In fact, I would now be on a team and could win even if I die. My chances of winning are very high if I just join whatever team was in the lead thereby increasing that team's advantage even further by being another confirmed (if town) member of that team. The lover is easily the worst neutral benign role in the entire game, the tooltip is very misleading as well. It says on "any night you choose" when in reality, you must choose somebody to love by night 3 or you automatically lose the game (unless you get culted or audited and win that way I suppose). The role definitely needs something to force you to choose by night 3 if the tooltip is going to straight up lie about what you can do. It should also force you to love your jailor/kidnapper if they jail you night 3 as that could also be an instant loss if you save your ability for night 3. As far as buffs go the lover should be able to heal its love every night in the game. Tbh it probably needs more to make it on par with survivor/amne but at least this would help.

Another glaring issue is how bad the winrates are for the neutral evils. The witch and auditor are the biggest victims. They are an evil role with no teammates meaning if they die or get voted off they lose, they also have virtually no survivability with the auditor having literally no survivability, at least the witch can control killings/heals to help themselves if they figure roles out. They are also completely dependent on the killing roles and have no means of doing so themselves. The evil roles actually all have fairly strong powers, but since they are so vulnerable and are dependent on other evils to do anything they are very weak roles. The cult and maybe the witchdoctor are the only evils that feels balanced in terms of its own winrate as it can make teammates so it won't auto lose if it dies. The judge feels almost up to par just because of its very strong power but like the auditor you are completely at the mercy and goodwill of the evil roles and will lose if anything at all kills you/betrays you.

Like seriously the witch and especially auditor are just so laughably bad winrate wise I'm surprised they haven't been given huge buffs. Let's look at all the auditor must accomplish almost all of which is out of their hands in order to win: they must avoid detection from the town lest they be lynched, easier said than done considering they can be caught by any town investigative role since they have corruption and people know they are audited except for the sheriff and to some degree the coroner, they must survive which is very hard as they have no survivability whatsoever and do not have any easy role fake claims that look suspicious unlike some evils such as kidnapper or consort so are likely to be lynched or killed by town killing roles, they must hope the other evil roles do well otherwise winning becomes almost impossible as they are unable to kill at night, finally (and tbh there is probably some bs against them I'm forgetting) they must hope the evils actually decide to let them win with them. It is shocking how over a third of the evils I play with decide to just kill me as (or even other auditors) the auditor after I did everything in my power to hand them the game on a silver platter and despite their mediocre gameplay and getting carried they just kill me and say lol at the end.

I would recommend at least one if not two of these buffs to the witch and auditor as the judge is probably fine (at least for now). Buff option one-give the auditor and witch a single attack block similar to the poisoner's. This would greatly help their survivability which is one of their biggest problems. Buff option two-let the auditor and witch become the deceased neutral killing's role if no evil killing roles are left in the game as well as no cult, also if they win it should still show as the witch/auditor wins so those achievements/win screens do not become impossible, alternatively you could just let them kill one person a night in place of their power but remain witch/auditor should there be no evil killing roles left. This would reduce their complete dependency on the killing evil roles in the game and would really help balance the roles. Buff option three-the witch and auditor can win with the neutral killing roles from beyond the grave and vice versa, the stipulation being that the auditor or witch must get their win screen shown for the neutral killing role to win from beyond the grave with the witch. This also should only go in effect if only one neutral killing role is in the game. This would help fix the problem with the discrepancies with the neutral evil and killing role's win rates being so low compared to other roles. There would be more to figure out with these new settings should they be implemented that I am not thinking of for example: what if an amne becomes the neutral killing, should the witch/auditor still be able to kill roles at night even though there is a killing role now?

Anyhow thanks for reading this long winded post and if you don't like these ideas that is perfectly ok. I know you already tried the witch night immunity thing and it didn't work but an attack block would be more in line with the role.

Great feedback, thank you for contributing. Unfortunately, based on Frinckle's design philosophy, I doubt he will be interested in giving more roles night protection/ one shot auto vests. He believes that if someone with the ability to kill wants to kill you, that you should die. Unfortunately, this new philosophy does not mesh well with the long established meta around saves and neutral killing being NI.

Man ya'll never stop bragging about the Necro dox.

Man ya'll never stop bragging about the Necro dox.

[QUOTE=GiskardReventlov;969589]It is, I was just joking. I think some people abuse Cult to grief and ruin town MVP's game when they're about to lose by converting them[/QUOTE]

Semi related, but some thoughts I typed out yesterday on the discord:

[QUOTE]Nobody likes their alignment abruptly changing. Cult is impossible to balance, every night conversion too strong, every other night too weak. I haven't played much with cult leader but I imagine it is frustrating because you fate is decided by how a single person plays.

The impossibility to balance comes from the mechanic of changing alignments. It is a big sign that it shouldn't generally be allowed. Town should not change alignment. Special cases are amnesiac, frankly a role that is too much of a kingmaker. If they side with Mafia that typically means Mafia wins. And auditor. Who if self audits becomes town. I think they should become scumbag not stump to again preserve alignment.

Your alignment is extremely important and one of the most fundamental mechanics to the game. It affects everything you do. To have it switched against your will mid game is not fun and just not a good mechanic.

You get stuff like town begging to be recruited to cult, throwing as town to join the cult and win. You get towns that get recruited into impossible situations and end up losing at no fault to their own.

Cult is so bad and so difficult to balance that most cult saves have an auditor to help masons recruit. So let's stop pretending.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by GiskardReventlov

It is, I was just joking. I think some people abuse Cult to grief and ruin town MVP's game when they're about to lose by converting them

Semi related, but some thoughts I typed out yesterday on the discord:

Nobody likes their alignment abruptly changing. Cult is impossible to balance, every night conversion too strong, every other night too weak. I haven't played much with cult leader but I imagine it is frustrating because you fate is decided by how a single person plays.

The impossibility to balance comes from the mechanic of changing alignments. It is a big sign that it shouldn't generally be allowed. Town should not change alignment. Special cases are amnesiac, frankly a role that is too much of a kingmaker. If they side with Mafia that typically means Mafia wins. And auditor. Who if self audits becomes town. I think they should become scumbag not stump to again preserve alignment.

Your alignment is extremely important and one of the most fundamental mechanics to the game. It affects everything you do. To have it switched against your will mid game is not fun and just not a good mechanic.

You get stuff like town begging to be recruited to cult, throwing as town to join the cult and win. You get towns that get recruited into impossible situations and end up losing at no fault to their own.

Cult is so bad and so difficult to balance that most cult saves have an auditor to help masons recruit. So let's stop pretending.

[QUOTE=GiskardReventlov;969587]Adding an option for Crier not to be convertible to Cult would be nice. That happened to me one time and I got lynched almost immediately when I stopped talking at night...[/QUOTE]

Isn't that the risk cult runs when recruiting gov?

Like a marshall who can't call a second group lynch, or a mayor that loses his votes...

Originally Posted by GiskardReventlov

Adding an option for Crier not to be convertible to Cult would be nice. That happened to me one time and I got lynched almost immediately when I stopped talking at night...

Isn't that the risk cult runs when recruiting gov?

Like a marshall who can't call a second group lynch, or a mayor that loses his votes...

I'd love to have a conversation about day kills. But why even try?

I'd love to have a conversation about day kills. But why even try?

I'll just disable all the new roles and host my own lobbies. If I get repicked then to echo the famous clan, CHOO CHOO. It's not worth playing useless broken roles.

I'm not going to run the numbers to reveal the obvious, because even if I did you wouldn't back down on your stubbornness to fix the broken roles

I have a lot of problems with some of the new roles, but I chose to focus on these two because it is the most blatant and glaring example of your "vision" just not working. Poll the community on it.

Please don't add more roles. Far too many were rushed through as it is.

I'll just disable all the new roles and host my own lobbies. If I get repicked then to echo the famous clan, CHOO CHOO. It's not worth playing useless broken roles.

I'm not going to run the numbers to reveal the obvious, because even if I did you wouldn't back down on your stubbornness to fix the broken roles

I have a lot of problems with some of the new roles, but I chose to focus on these two because it is the most blatant and glaring example of your "vision" just not working. Poll the community on it.

Please don't add more roles. Far too many were rushed through as it is.

Until this issue is addressed, please join me and other reasonable players in 1.0 lobbies. See you there!

Until this issue is addressed, please join me and other reasonable players in 1.0 lobbies. See you there!

[QUOTE]Frinckles —
As far as NI goes. I guess people want me to make a major write up about it to see why I don't always jump for night immunity. Maybe I should, but in the meanwhile I think Poisoner definitely needed something to give him a little bit of a buff. (edited)

So the one-shot autovest should give him some more presence. [/QUOTE]

This total dictatorship is killing the game. It is all only about what Frinckles wants, and he doesn't believe in night immunity, so poisoner and electro you are screwed, despite the massive amount of community feedback on this issue.

Frinckles —
As far as NI goes. I guess people want me to make a major write up about it to see why I don't always jump for night immunity. Maybe I should, but in the meanwhile I think Poisoner definitely needed something to give him a little bit of a buff. (edited)

So the one-shot autovest should give him some more presence.

This total dictatorship is killing the game. It is all only about what Frinckles wants, and he doesn't believe in night immunity, so poisoner and electro you are screwed, despite the massive amount of community feedback on this issue.

[QUOTE=Frinckles;967044]if a player clicks the button next to your name and they are supposed to make you die, I think you should.[/QUOTE]

This is why I mean by the new philosophy. Frinckles believes in player agency, but not community feedback.

Originally Posted by Frinckles

if a player clicks the button next to your name and they are supposed to make you die, I think you should.

This is why I mean by the new philosophy. Frinckles believes in player agency, but not community feedback.

Frinckles has a WILDLY different game design philosophy than the previous devs. He continually rejects most community feedback that has wide support in favor of his own design philosophy.

Case and point: Night Immunity

Frinckles has gone on the record waxing about how he believes in player agency and that night immunity runs against that. His recent patch doesn't do nearly enough to fix it for poisoner and electro.

The issue is, he is adding roles without night immunity in a game with several roles with night immunity creating a huge disparity. The night immune roles have a massive advantage and no amount of tweaking the poisoner or electro, even a one night vest, is going to fix that. There is virtually NO WORLD where you can compensate for not having night immunity. We can do the math and run the numbers on the likelihood of a non NI NK to win compared to a NI NK, but I don't think we need to. It is fairly obvious.

The main save setups of the game, 8331 and 933, were designed with a NIGHT IMMUNE NIGHT KILLING in mind. That is not going to change, you just ruin and severely imbalance games by putting handicapped roles like electro and poisoner in the mix.

Frinckles has been given pages [url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50000-Poisoner-and-Electromaniac-need-Night-Immunity[/url] and pages [url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50342-Meta-Definition-Highlights-State-of-the-Game[/url] of feedback by plenty of community members who are much more graceful than I am. Yet he chooses to inflict his philosophy on us - a philosophy that WONT work unless the whole game is reworked, say by removing NI from everyone and making a 2 NK save the norm. Nobody wants that. He didn't even address the night immunity points raised by Guy, which I also pointed out. What do we get? A still stilted half baked role with a 1 night auto vest. It simply isn't enough to keep up with SK, MM, and Arson. HAVING NI IS MORE VALUABLE THAN ANYTHING LIKE PIERCING NI.

GIVE THEM NIGHT IMMUNITY.

I understand you may not have time to continue development. My criticism is having time to make radical changes and then walking away from the game for months at a time; for rushing half baked roles through and then neglecting them; and finally NOT EVEN PLAYING THE GAME IN ITS CURRENT STATE TO SEE HOW MISERABLE IT IS TO ROLL A USELESS ELECTRO OR POISONER.

QUANTITY IS NOT QUALITY.

It is not worth giving feedback to a developer who ignores it. I really don't care if people don't like my tone. Far friendlier tones have been used yet they get ignored.

My question is Frinckles:
Why the stubborness on night immunity? Don't you see how your new philosophy does not mesh well with how the game was structured?
Why the lack of transparency?
Why not poll and listen to the community?
Why isn't quality prioritized over quantity?

Frinckles has a WILDLY different game design philosophy than the previous devs. He continually rejects most community feedback that has wide support in favor of his own design philosophy.

Case and point: Night Immunity

Frinckles has gone on the record waxing about how he believes in player agency and that night immunity runs against that. His recent patch doesn't do nearly enough to fix it for poisoner and electro.

The issue is, he is adding roles without night immunity in a game with several roles with night immunity creating a huge disparity. The night immune roles have a massive advantage and no amount of tweaking the poisoner or electro, even a one night vest, is going to fix that. There is virtually NO WORLD where you can compensate for not having night immunity. We can do the math and run the numbers on the likelihood of a non NI NK to win compared to a NI NK, but I don't think we need to. It is fairly obvious.

The main save setups of the game, 8331 and 933, were designed with a NIGHT IMMUNE NIGHT KILLING in mind. That is not going to change, you just ruin and severely imbalance games by putting handicapped roles like electro and poisoner in the mix.

Frinckles has been given pages https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...Night-Immunity and pages https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...te-of-the-Game of feedback by plenty of community members who are much more graceful than I am. Yet he chooses to inflict his philosophy on us - a philosophy that WONT work unless the whole game is reworked, say by removing NI from everyone and making a 2 NK save the norm. Nobody wants that. He didn't even address the night immunity points raised by Guy, which I also pointed out. What do we get? A still stilted half baked role with a 1 night auto vest. It simply isn't enough to keep up with SK, MM, and Arson. HAVING NI IS MORE VALUABLE THAN ANYTHING LIKE PIERCING NI.

GIVE THEM NIGHT IMMUNITY.

I understand you may not have time to continue development. My criticism is having time to make radical changes and then walking away from the game for months at a time; for rushing half baked roles through and then neglecting them; and finally NOT EVEN PLAYING THE GAME IN ITS CURRENT STATE TO SEE HOW MISERABLE IT IS TO ROLL A USELESS ELECTRO OR POISONER.

QUANTITY IS NOT QUALITY.

It is not worth giving feedback to a developer who ignores it. I really don't care if people don't like my tone. Far friendlier tones have been used yet they get ignored.

My question is Frinckles:
Why the stubborness on night immunity? Don't you see how your new philosophy does not mesh well with how the game was structured?
Why the lack of transparency?
Why not poll and listen to the community?
Why isn't quality prioritized over quantity?

Another feedback post totally ignored :)

Another feedback post totally ignored

I was starting to have fun there on d3.

I am sorry that the game wasn't more active. This setup can be a lot of fun.

Thanks to Martin and Lumi!

I was starting to have fun there on d3.

I am sorry that the game wasn't more active. This setup can be a lot of fun.

Thanks to Martin and Lumi!

[QUOTE=Voss;969001]It's insulting that you think my legitimate suggestion is mocking. Why can't I say:

I prefer OP Doctor over UP doctor where you are 90% likely to fail or be meaningless/useless due to the innate weakness of Doctor.[/QUOTE]

No one has ever accused doctor of being underpowered. It is just that it is a relatively 'boring' role. The ability to save someone from death each night is extremely valuable, especially with the new gov roles.

Your suggestion comes across as sarcastic and not related to anything in Guy's lengthy detailed post above.

Originally Posted by Voss

It's insulting that you think my legitimate suggestion is mocking. Why can't I say:

I prefer OP Doctor over UP doctor where you are 90% likely to fail or be meaningless/useless due to the innate weakness of Doctor.

No one has ever accused doctor of being underpowered. It is just that it is a relatively 'boring' role. The ability to save someone from death each night is extremely valuable, especially with the new gov roles.

Your suggestion comes across as sarcastic and not related to anything in Guy's lengthy detailed post above.

[QUOTE=Voss;968964]I think doctor should be able to heal 2-3 people per night. it's kinda under powered tbh.[/QUOTE]

Yes mock all of the legitimate feedback in this post, feedback that is already being discounted and ignored despite massive community outcry.

Originally Posted by Voss

I think doctor should be able to heal 2-3 people per night. it's kinda under powered tbh.

Yes mock all of the legitimate feedback in this post, feedback that is already being discounted and ignored despite massive community outcry.

And again, the ability to BE night immune is far superior to the ability to KILL night immune. Not addressed, won't be changed because of Frinckles new philosophy on player agency and night immunity.

The problem is, there are still plenty of roles and years of save meta built around NK having night immunity. Poisoner and Electro have NO MEANINGFUL GAME IMPACTING ADVANTAGE over SK, MM, and Arson.

They make Arson look OP.

And again, the ability to BE night immune is far superior to the ability to KILL night immune. Not addressed, won't be changed because of Frinckles new philosophy on player agency and night immunity.

The problem is, there are still plenty of roles and years of save meta built around NK having night immunity. Poisoner and Electro have NO MEANINGFUL GAME IMPACTING ADVANTAGE over SK, MM, and Arson.

They make Arson look OP.

[QUOTE=Frinckles;968555]
I'm not sure I get the whole argument that Swinger/HB aren't useful. I suppose I play them differently. I'll think about giving the 3 roles (including lover) a bit more flexibility.

[/QUOTE]

Please remove the damn roles. They are not fun, not useful, and never should have been added. I don't think you have played the mod enough AS THESE ROLES.

Lover has no protection and quickly becomes number 1 target.

Swinger and HB are locked into a SINGLE claim.

Where is the deception, where is the strategy? You choose people randomly n1. Mind as well blow your retirement at the casino.

Originally Posted by Frinckles

I'm not sure I get the whole argument that Swinger/HB aren't useful. I suppose I play them differently. I'll think about giving the 3 roles (including lover) a bit more flexibility.

Please remove the damn roles. They are not fun, not useful, and never should have been added. I don't think you have played the mod enough AS THESE ROLES.

Lover has no protection and quickly becomes number 1 target.

Swinger and HB are locked into a SINGLE claim.

Where is the deception, where is the strategy? You choose people randomly n1. Mind as well blow your retirement at the casino.

x1000.

You have far more patience than me Guy.

x1000.

You have far more patience than me Guy.

Please, I beg you, please either remove or fix poisoner/electro/lover immediately.

They never should have been added to the game in their current state without real playtesting.

Please, I beg you, please either remove or fix poisoner/electro/lover immediately.

They never should have been added to the game in their current state without real playtesting.

Why does communication have anything to do with it? It is totally independent of the intent, which apparently is the chief deciding factor.

Whether or not the DH knows doesn't affect the validity of the play.

Why does communication have anything to do with it? It is totally independent of the intent, which apparently is the chief deciding factor.

Whether or not the DH knows doesn't affect the validity of the play.

2.0 has been abandoned after flooded with poorly designed roles and concepts. The last update was for easter and left the game in perhaps the most broken state it has been.

2.0 has been abandoned after flooded with poorly designed roles and concepts. The last update was for easter and left the game in perhaps the most broken state it has been.

Since any criticism is removed:

Regarding the report: [url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/50194-Vincukas-1-S2-1-9757360[/url]

Arrow and Auwt's extreme illogical conclusions are a danger to this game.

Vincukas intent is extremely clear, he was attempting to improve his standing.

It backfired. Mistakes happened. This is not griefing or gamethrowing, this is extreme policing of play and opens up a huge can of worms around future reports.

If this occured in FM, it would be celebrated as a BIG BRAIN move.

Whether or not the DH knew is totally irrelevant.

Auwt and co are now saying YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO IMPROVE YOUR STANDING AT THE EXPENSE of OTHER TRIAD.

This means: as triad:

you can never vote up a triad member, you have to inno a triad member on trial.

Since any criticism is removed:

Regarding the report: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...1-S2-1-9757360

Arrow and Auwt's extreme illogical conclusions are a danger to this game.

Vincukas intent is extremely clear, he was attempting to improve his standing.

It backfired. Mistakes happened. This is not griefing or gamethrowing, this is extreme policing of play and opens up a huge can of worms around future reports.

If this occured in FM, it would be celebrated as a BIG BRAIN move.

Whether or not the DH knew is totally irrelevant.

Auwt and co are now saying YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO IMPROVE YOUR STANDING AT THE EXPENSE of OTHER TRIAD.

This means: as triad:

you can never vote up a triad member, you have to inno a triad member on trial.

2.0 is sadly broken and abandoned.

2.0 is sadly broken and abandoned.

Just delete the role already. Too underpowered.

Just delete the role already. Too underpowered.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28680[/ATTACH]

To me, bringing players back from the dead should be off limits.

To me, bringing players back from the dead should be off limits.

I honestly agree only on the SR car thing. It doesn't help that the car list is full of things nobody has ever heard of, so you can't come up with a fake car on the spot.

I honestly agree only on the SR car thing. It doesn't help that the car list is full of things nobody has ever heard of, so you can't come up with a fake car on the spot.

GG.

I think the major mistake town made was letting Ozy get lynched.

Kind of feels like an unearned win, except for the major win play being MM bussing me. MM was a good partner. Not the first time I rolled scum with them.

GG.

I think the major mistake town made was letting Ozy get lynched.

Kind of feels like an unearned win, except for the major win play being MM bussing me. MM was a good partner. Not the first time I rolled scum with them.

They still have the blind ballot voting and not the 'standard' voting where you see X voted Y.

They still have the blind ballot voting and not the 'standard' voting where you see X voted Y.

Good game scum. You won. My lynch ends the game.

GG

Good game scum. You won. My lynch ends the game.

GG

Account Name: CBreceptor
Account ID: 1-S2-1-12422398
In-Game Name: Bin Zhang
Slot 11, Jailor

Crimes Committed: Gamethrowing? Griefing?

Your Account Name: Renegade
Summary: Night 3, jails and executes a confirmed Enchantress. Enchantress claimed d2 after killing a witch day 1 and had no CC.

I noticed they had the new player enter your name thing at the beginning. It is possible they are a new player and just wasn't paying attention to the game or didn't really know what was going on. If that is the case, maybe this would be better On Hold, but that is for you to decide.


Account Name: Rinzler
Account ID: 1-S2-1-12469074
In-Game Name: Evil Green Ranger
Slot 2, Armorsmith

Crimes Committed: Reactionary Gamethrowing

Day 4, reactionarily gamethrows by leaving when his desired suggestion is not voted up for trial.

Account Name: CBreceptor
Account ID: 1-S2-1-12422398
In-Game Name: Bin Zhang
Slot 11, Jailor

Crimes Committed: Gamethrowing? Griefing?

Your Account Name: Renegade
Summary: Night 3, jails and executes a confirmed Enchantress. Enchantress claimed d2 after killing a witch day 1 and had no CC.

I noticed they had the new player enter your name thing at the beginning. It is possible they are a new player and just wasn't paying attention to the game or didn't really know what was going on. If that is the case, maybe this would be better On Hold, but that is for you to decide.


Account Name: Rinzler
Account ID: 1-S2-1-12469074
In-Game Name: Evil Green Ranger
Slot 2, Armorsmith

Crimes Committed: Reactionary Gamethrowing

Day 4, reactionarily gamethrows by leaving when his desired suggestion is not voted up for trial.

Yeah I don't know if doxxing myself via video chat is a good idea.

Yeah I don't know if doxxing myself via video chat is a good idea.

[QUOTE=Frinckles;968092]Ugh I shouldn't have said that. Now scum!MM would have an out to win in F3. Fuck me.

[Vote]renegade[/vote][/QUOTE]

Okay. [vote]Frinckles [/vote]

Originally Posted by Frinckles

Ugh I shouldn't have said that. Now scum!MM would have an out to win in F3. Fuck me.

-vote renegade

Okay.

-vote Frinckles

I'm waiting to see what MM has to say, but at this juncture I am ready to vote Frinckles or Martin. Preferably Frinckles.

I'm waiting to see what MM has to say, but at this juncture I am ready to vote Frinckles or Martin. Preferably Frinckles.

[QUOTE=Frinckles;968080]I guess VCA makes an argument for ren+MM too. Both were on Ozy, but then that silly line from Loldebite about being down to lynch Ren comes out while he was there for EOD. Eh.[/QUOTE]

Frankly, the simple VCA points right at you and Martin.

Pigeonhole principle tells me AT LEAST one of MM, Frinckles, or Martin is scum based on the Ozy lynch:

OzyWho (4 [L-1]):
Marshmallow Marshall, MartinGG99, Renegade, Frinckles

I'm taking Occam's razor to this one. I'm done with the big brain plays of Sc2mafia and sometimes the simplest solution is the most obvious. Simplest here is that scum was on both trains. Martin and Frinckles.

Originally Posted by Frinckles

I guess VCA makes an argument for ren+MM too. Both were on Ozy, but then that silly line from Loldebite about being down to lynch Ren comes out while he was there for EOD. Eh.

Frankly, the simple VCA points right at you and Martin.

Pigeonhole principle tells me AT LEAST one of MM, Frinckles, or Martin is scum based on the Ozy lynch:

OzyWho (4 [L-1]):
Marshmallow Marshall, MartinGG99, Renegade, Frinckles

I'm taking Occam's razor to this one. I'm done with the big brain plays of Sc2mafia and sometimes the simplest solution is the most obvious. Simplest here is that scum was on both trains. Martin and Frinckles.

[QUOTE=Frinckles;968072]This is a two part so it's easier for responses. 1/2

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[B]Martin[/B]
Honestly you ooze so much emotion throughout this game via your rhetoric, the way you type, grammatical shifts etc. You started off the game in a apathetic mood and it is reflected throughout your ISO in your first post and multiple times afterward (hope you feel better afterwards, by the way -- shit happens but that's okay.) When Renegade pushed you to contribute more you explained all this to him directly:



You also disagreed with Renegade on other things like Ozy being LHF after you had just ended a massive back-and-forth with Ozy; hell at one point you even voted Renegade. There are some things I thought were weird about your slot, like entertaining a no-lynch or possibly pocketing me; but honestly I can't find a scenario where you're scum here. There's a couple reasons for that -- post count, tone, validity of arguments and a few other small things. But one of the biggest things that popped out to me was that not once, but four times you've reminded players to achieve their post counts out of concern of them being mod-killed. There is no reason for scum to mention this and certainly no reason for scum to be so insistent on doing this particularly over an AFK slot like Oliver or Loldebite right before F5.

Between your pushbacks/votes on Renegade, frustrated interactions with Loldebite, and hyper-awareness of the fact that you and MM didn't interact* (enough to even taunt Ozy) it seems pretty apparent that you're least likely scum here. [SIZE=1]*side note, you two did interact later on.[/SIZE]

-------
So, then this is usually the really difficult part where I need to find the last town member and then the F5 tug of war begins.
-------
[/QUOTE]

I think you and Martin are just coming right out and saying you are scum, and trying to get a single vote from Loldebite or MM. MM has been all over me all game so I'm not surprised they are alive and part of your plan. Martin if you are town then this is exactly what Frinckles has aimed for. Your vote. But I am extremely doubtful. I find it hard to believe two players would be so confident about themselves both being town in a F5 3v2 situation.


[QUOTE=Frinckles;968072]
[B]Renegade[/B]
You've been gunning for me and Martin since the game began basically, like non-stop and frankly to the point where you didn't need to even type a post like this:





I don't remember playing scum with you in the game. I barely remember playing scum at all, actually. But if this was my scum-meta I'd certainly have a remarkable one since the entirety of the game has considered me a top townread or was reluctant to vote me despite your incessant pushing. Honestly though, none of this matters because I know well enough that even if you were town there would be zero way for me convince you that I'm town at this point in the game anyway. You didn't earn a townread from me and I didn't earn a townread from you and we can apologize to deathchat pre-emptively if this is TvT. This would be an impossible position.

But honestly I don't think it is. You've literally breadcrumbed up to this point by pushing me and Martin in a way. I know I'm Town and I'm thinking there must be a reason I'm alive over someone like Norwee, right?



Yeah, I admit I townread Norwee but you just read the room wrong here. Norwee was pushed plenty this game by different people. And on a related note, Varcron and Norwee both pushed MM on days one and two respectively. Whether that makes MM scum #2 here is up in the air, but if you were actually worldbuilding a scumteam, a town!renegade would never ever posit a Frinckles+Martin team over a Frinckles+MM team or even Frinckles+Loldebite

You're telling me town!renegade read this:

And you never wanted to worldbuild that from your perspective Frinckles+MM might seem reasonable?

You're telling me town!renegade read this reply from Loldebite to Ozy:


And you never wanted to worldbuild that from your perspective Frinckles+Loldebite might seem reasonable? He's literally hesitating to vote me and it'd mark the second silly/joking interaction we've had all game with next to zero actual content.

So what I'm seeing is that you just jumped over to Frinckles+Martin while reciting the words 'weird' and 'aloof' repeatedly. You kept the both of us alive and killed outside so that you could pan back and say "hey, look I called it" when it boiled down to a F5. As if all the reasons I posted above weren't enough to constitute a TR on Martin from me, your play kind of seals the deal.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I have been gunning for you all game. I'm so sure of it, and if you lynch me well the game is over. We have to lynch scum today, and this wall of scum paint sadly enough may convince one of the two other towns.

Frinckles + MM world is absolutely reasonable. That is why if Martin IS town, he is making a huge mistake by putting all his chips in the Frinckles basket. Again I don't see why Martin couldn't fathom a Scum!Frinckles world, and that is what has me extremely concerned.

This early aloofness - late heavy scumpaint is exactly how you played the last game you were scum in. You were a cop if I recall. What game was that?

Originally Posted by Frinckles

This is a two part so it's easier for responses. 1/2

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Martin
Honestly you ooze so much emotion throughout this game via your rhetoric, the way you type, grammatical shifts etc. You started off the game in a apathetic mood and it is reflected throughout your ISO in your first post and multiple times afterward (hope you feel better afterwards, by the way -- shit happens but that's okay.) When Renegade pushed you to contribute more you explained all this to him directly:



You also disagreed with Renegade on other things like Ozy being LHF after you had just ended a massive back-and-forth with Ozy; hell at one point you even voted Renegade. There are some things I thought were weird about your slot, like entertaining a no-lynch or possibly pocketing me; but honestly I can't find a scenario where you're scum here. There's a couple reasons for that -- post count, tone, validity of arguments and a few other small things. But one of the biggest things that popped out to me was that not once, but four times you've reminded players to achieve their post counts out of concern of them being mod-killed. There is no reason for scum to mention this and certainly no reason for scum to be so insistent on doing this particularly over an AFK slot like Oliver or Loldebite right before F5.

Between your pushbacks/votes on Renegade, frustrated interactions with Loldebite, and hyper-awareness of the fact that you and MM didn't interact* (enough to even taunt Ozy) it seems pretty apparent that you're least likely scum here. *side note, you two did interact later on.

-------
So, then this is usually the really difficult part where I need to find the last town member and then the F5 tug of war begins.
-------

I think you and Martin are just coming right out and saying you are scum, and trying to get a single vote from Loldebite or MM. MM has been all over me all game so I'm not surprised they are alive and part of your plan. Martin if you are town then this is exactly what Frinckles has aimed for. Your vote. But I am extremely doubtful. I find it hard to believe two players would be so confident about themselves both being town in a F5 3v2 situation.

Originally Posted by Frinckles

Renegade
You've been gunning for me and Martin since the game began basically, like non-stop and frankly to the point where you didn't need to even type a post like this:





I don't remember playing scum with you in the game. I barely remember playing scum at all, actually. But if this was my scum-meta I'd certainly have a remarkable one since the entirety of the game has considered me a top townread or was reluctant to vote me despite your incessant pushing. Honestly though, none of this matters because I know well enough that even if you were town there would be zero way for me convince you that I'm town at this point in the game anyway. You didn't earn a townread from me and I didn't earn a townread from you and we can apologize to deathchat pre-emptively if this is TvT. This would be an impossible position.

But honestly I don't think it is. You've literally breadcrumbed up to this point by pushing me and Martin in a way. I know I'm Town and I'm thinking there must be a reason I'm alive over someone like Norwee, right?



Yeah, I admit I townread Norwee but you just read the room wrong here. Norwee was pushed plenty this game by different people. And on a related note, Varcron and Norwee both pushed MM on days one and two respectively. Whether that makes MM scum #2 here is up in the air, but if you were actually worldbuilding a scumteam, a town!renegade would never ever posit a Frinckles+Martin team over a Frinckles+MM team or even Frinckles+Loldebite

You're telling me town!renegade read this:

And you never wanted to worldbuild that from your perspective Frinckles+MM might seem reasonable?

You're telling me town!renegade read this reply from Loldebite to Ozy:


And you never wanted to worldbuild that from your perspective Frinckles+Loldebite might seem reasonable? He's literally hesitating to vote me and it'd mark the second silly/joking interaction we've had all game with next to zero actual content.

So what I'm seeing is that you just jumped over to Frinckles+Martin while reciting the words 'weird' and 'aloof' repeatedly. You kept the both of us alive and killed outside so that you could pan back and say "hey, look I called it" when it boiled down to a F5. As if all the reasons I posted above weren't enough to constitute a TR on Martin from me, your play kind of seals the deal.

Yes, I have been gunning for you all game. I'm so sure of it, and if you lynch me well the game is over. We have to lynch scum today, and this wall of scum paint sadly enough may convince one of the two other towns.

Frinckles + MM world is absolutely reasonable. That is why if Martin IS town, he is making a huge mistake by putting all his chips in the Frinckles basket. Again I don't see why Martin couldn't fathom a Scum!Frinckles world, and that is what has me extremely concerned.

This early aloofness - late heavy scumpaint is exactly how you played the last game you were scum in. You were a cop if I recall. What game was that?

[QUOTE=Frinckles;968075]And truth be told, this day is already over. Martin and I townread eachother, Loldebite said he townread me and MM already said he would vote Renegade (in addition to doing literally everything in his power to kill him anyway.)[/QUOTE]

I am too exhausted to respond to your wall, but I will.

Again, nobody should vote yet. But I presume you are leading the lynch on me.

Originally Posted by Frinckles

And truth be told, this day is already over. Martin and I townread eachother, Loldebite said he townread me and MM already said he would vote Renegade (in addition to doing literally everything in his power to kill him anyway.)

I am too exhausted to respond to your wall, but I will.

Again, nobody should vote yet. But I presume you are leading the lynch on me.