August 18th, 2022, 05:00 PM
[QUOTE=oops_ur_dead;969554]It's an extremely absurd and racist comparison to make.
Firstly, we can refute the idea that dog breeds are like human races. Variation between human races (or more accurately, humans from different regions) is significantly less than variation between dog breeds (3.3% compared to 27%). There are numerous studies showing that aggression in dogs is inherited and specific genes linked to aggression have been identified. Furthermore, humans never went through selective breeding. It's very obvious that behaviour can be bred into animals, look at things like the silver fox domestication experiment. Humans were never artificially bred for fighting, unlike shit beasts, so we cannot presume that a specific race is predisposed to such behaviour.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think these distinctions are relevant (I've no opinion on the meat of the argument but dropped in to say this).
Originally Posted by
oops_ur_dead
It's an extremely absurd and racist comparison to make.
Firstly, we can refute the idea that dog breeds are like human races. Variation between human races (or more accurately, humans from different regions) is significantly less than variation between dog breeds (3.3% compared to 27%). There are numerous studies showing that aggression in dogs is inherited and specific genes linked to aggression have been identified. Furthermore, humans never went through selective breeding. It's very obvious that behaviour can be bred into animals, look at things like the silver fox domestication experiment. Humans were never artificially bred for fighting, unlike shit beasts, so we cannot presume that a specific race is predisposed to such behaviour.
I don't think these distinctions are relevant (I've no opinion on the meat of the argument but dropped in to say this).
August 9th, 2022, 09:31 AM
I'm tempted to sign, but I don't like power roles and madness setups.
I'm tempted to sign, but I don't like power roles and madness setups.
August 8th, 2022, 11:53 AM
Cult Alchemist
Description: Target a player at night and give them fake feedback of your choice. Can be done three times.
Option: Has 2 charges - Default: No
Option: Has 3 charges - Default: Yes
Possible Crimes: Conspiracy and Soliciting
(Note: I would add Witchcraft but I don't like the fact that Investigator can detect Witch now)
Bodyguards become Alchemists on conversion.
Cult Abbess
Description: Target two players. If one visits the other, you will role block the one visiting.
Option - Detect block-immune target - Default: Yes
Option - Targets are notified of role block - Default: Yes
Possible Crimes: Disturbing the Peace (on roleblock), Conspiracy and Soliciting
Escorts become Abbesses on conversion.
Cult Illusionist
Description: Change a player's last will, permanently.
Option: Has 1 charge - Default: Yes
Option: Has 2 charges - Default: No
Option: Has 3 charges - Default: No
Possible Crimes: Conspiracy and Soliciting
Coroners become Illusionists when converted to the Cult.
Cult Alchemist
Description: Target a player at night and give them fake feedback of your choice. Can be done three times.
Option: Has 2 charges - Default: No
Option: Has 3 charges - Default: Yes
Possible Crimes: Conspiracy and Soliciting
(Note: I would add Witchcraft but I don't like the fact that Investigator can detect Witch now)
Bodyguards become Alchemists on conversion.
Cult Abbess
Description: Target two players. If one visits the other, you will role block the one visiting.
Option - Detect block-immune target - Default: Yes
Option - Targets are notified of role block - Default: Yes
Possible Crimes: Disturbing the Peace (on roleblock), Conspiracy and Soliciting
Escorts become Abbesses on conversion.
Cult Illusionist
Description: Change a player's last will, permanently.
Option: Has 1 charge - Default: Yes
Option: Has 2 charges - Default: No
Option: Has 3 charges - Default: No
Possible Crimes: Conspiracy and Soliciting
Coroners become Illusionists when converted to the Cult.
August 8th, 2022, 11:30 AM
So maybe Cult could be turned into a faction that starts out weak, with one or two members on D1, but can become more powerful during the game by converting important roles to their alignment. You have a Cult Inquisitor, converted from an Investigator/Detective/Sheriff, that looks for roles that could be useful to add to the Cult, and once when they have 4-5 members they lose the ability to convert (they could also not gain any factional night kill or something and just rely on voting power/members' role powers to win).
So the question is what kind of roles would be useful for Cult to have. I can think of the Cult Inquisitor but not any other role, maybe they can have more tactical roles such as Drug Dealer (gives fake feedback to target), a revamped Electromaniac (charges 2 people every night, if one visits the otherr they die; prevents 2 ppl from visiting each other), Mortician (targets a player and permanently changes their last will; even if they change their last will, ur version will be the one that appears when they die), etc
So maybe Cult could be turned into a faction that starts out weak, with one or two members on D1, but can become more powerful during the game by converting important roles to their alignment. You have a Cult Inquisitor, converted from an Investigator/Detective/Sheriff, that looks for roles that could be useful to add to the Cult, and once when they have 4-5 members they lose the ability to convert (they could also not gain any factional night kill or something and just rely on voting power/members' role powers to win).
So the question is what kind of roles would be useful for Cult to have. I can think of the Cult Inquisitor but not any other role, maybe they can have more tactical roles such as Drug Dealer (gives fake feedback to target), a revamped Electromaniac (charges 2 people every night, if one visits the otherr they die; prevents 2 ppl from visiting each other), Mortician (targets a player and permanently changes their last will; even if they change their last will, ur version will be the one that appears when they die), etc
August 8th, 2022, 11:22 AM
Maybe the cult factional conversion could turn into a factional night kill of some sort after the maximum is reached
Maybe the cult factional conversion could turn into a factional night kill of some sort after the maximum is reached
August 8th, 2022, 08:48 AM
[QUOTE=Renegade;969588]Isn't that the risk cult runs when recruiting gov?
Like a marshall who can't call a second group lynch, or a mayor that loses his votes...[/QUOTE]
It is, I was just joking. I think some people abuse Cult to grief and ruin town MVP's game when they're about to lose by converting them
Originally Posted by
Renegade
Isn't that the risk cult runs when recruiting gov?
Like a marshall who can't call a second group lynch, or a mayor that loses his votes...
It is, I was just joking. I think some people abuse Cult to grief and ruin town MVP's game when they're about to lose by converting them
August 8th, 2022, 03:29 AM
Adding an option for Crier not to be convertible to Cult would be nice. That happened to me one time and I got lynched almost immediately when I stopped talking at night...
Adding an option for Crier not to be convertible to Cult would be nice. That happened to me one time and I got lynched almost immediately when I stopped talking at night...
August 8th, 2022, 03:27 AM
[QUOTE=Frinckles;969577]I mean isn't that just a fundamental issue with how cult mechanics work? I added the cult leader option so that it's possible for a killing role to dismantle the entire cult by finding the original one.[/QUOTE]
Cult Leaders are a bit frustrating to have as Cultist, because you can play a good game as Cultist but die because your Cult Leader is unlucky and gets randomly checked or is downright bad and gets lynched. I think there's no escaping snowballing Cult sizes in setups. Maybe the focus should be on making Cult saves more fun to play rather than balanced.
I think this can be achieved by giving Cult more faction-unique roles, or allowing them to convert some, or all, Town roles without the roles losing their abilities after being converted.
Originally Posted by
Frinckles
I mean isn't that just a fundamental issue with how cult mechanics work? I added the cult leader option so that it's possible for a killing role to dismantle the entire cult by finding the original one.
Cult Leaders are a bit frustrating to have as Cultist, because you can play a good game as Cultist but die because your Cult Leader is unlucky and gets randomly checked or is downright bad and gets lynched. I think there's no escaping snowballing Cult sizes in setups. Maybe the focus should be on making Cult saves more fun to play rather than balanced.
I think this can be achieved by giving Cult more faction-unique roles, or allowing them to convert some, or all, Town roles without the roles losing their abilities after being converted.
August 7th, 2022, 05:33 AM
If you roll Serial Killer in a dedicated Cult save, you're fucked. You have to fight both the Town and the Cult, where the Cult is really just a Town clique. If instead you can play the game as a potential Cultist and eliminate dangerous roles such as Mason Leader, Doctor or Bodyguard, you can get converted at the end of the game (win) and also help the Cult at the start.
Also, eliminating an NK, if anything, screws the Cult over, because they're eliminating +1 night kill from the game that can help them. (Esp. due to W.D. normally being in the game which means serial-killed targets can be converted to Cult)
If you roll Serial Killer in a dedicated Cult save, you're fucked. You have to fight both the Town and the Cult, where the Cult is really just a Town clique. If instead you can play the game as a potential Cultist and eliminate dangerous roles such as Mason Leader, Doctor or Bodyguard, you can get converted at the end of the game (win) and also help the Cult at the start.
Also, eliminating an NK, if anything, screws the Cult over, because they're eliminating +1 night kill from the game that can help them. (Esp. due to W.D. normally being in the game which means serial-killed targets can be converted to Cult)
August 5th, 2022, 03:00 AM
Dedicated cult saves generally have one neutral killer. The Cult should not be able to convert Town roles that are night immune, like people protected by Bodyguard or Armorsmith's vest, or Citizen vesting, but they should be able to convert night immune neutral roles. Especially NKs because they otherwise have a hard time winning against both Cult and Town.
Dedicated cult saves generally have one neutral killer. The Cult should not be able to convert Town roles that are night immune, like people protected by Bodyguard or Armorsmith's vest, or Citizen vesting, but they should be able to convert night immune neutral roles. Especially NKs because they otherwise have a hard time winning against both Cult and Town.
August 4th, 2022, 09:41 AM
Cult should be allowed to convert night immune neutral evils/killers, even if immunity prevents conversion
Would be as a separate toggable button
Cult should be allowed to convert night immune neutral evils/killers, even if immunity prevents conversion
Would be as a separate toggable button
August 4th, 2022, 09:39 AM
Cult Inquisitor
Description: Part of the cult, can check a player every night and determine what kind of ability they possess.
Possible Crimes: Trespassing (gained when visiting), Conspiracy and Soliciting.
Investigators become Cult Inquisitors when converted to the Cult.
Cult Inquisitor
Description: Part of the cult, can check a player every night and determine what kind of ability they possess.
Possible Crimes: Trespassing (gained when visiting), Conspiracy and Soliciting.
Investigators become Cult Inquisitors when converted to the Cult.