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  1. ►►Re: cats can learn the name of their cat friends :)◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    uwu oops-nyan
    Please make serious comments on this thread, this is in Serious Discussion.
  2. ►►Re: cats can learn the name of their cat friends :)◄◄

    I specifically meant to put this thread in Serious Discussion, please do not move it
  3. ►►cats can learn the name of their cat friends :)◄◄

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-10261-5

    cats can learn the name of their cat friends
  4. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:starcraft 2 mafia

    Thread Author:oops_ur_dead

    Post Author:oops_ur_dead

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    ►►Re: starcraft 2 mafia◄◄

    why are people replying to this
  5. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:starcraft 2 mafia

    Thread Author:oops_ur_dead

    Post Author:oops_ur_dead

    Replies
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    ►►Re: starcraft 2 mafia◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by DJarJar View Post
    no what's that?
    starcraft 2 mafia
  6. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:starcraft 2 mafia

    Thread Author:oops_ur_dead

    Post Author:oops_ur_dead

    Replies
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    ►►starcraft 2 mafia◄◄

    have you heard of this game called starcraft 2 mafia?
  7. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Ohhb(notm)ama

    Thread Author:OzyWho

    Post Author:oops_ur_dead

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    ►►Re: Ohhb(notm)ama◄◄

    My position on free speech on the internet is that anyone who has unironically cited a philosopher or a philosopher's opinion in any internet discussion should be banned from all social media and from ever communicating again.
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    ►►Re: WHY THE BRAIN IS NOT A MACHINE◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Lets say hypothetically that the solution to the 3-body problem is such a function, i.e. a function that cannot be described mathematically. Would you say the 3-body problem has a soul?

    I'm speaking out of my ass on this next one because I don't really know, but you could also add the Navier-Stokes equations to this list because AFAIK they also cannot be solved analytically
    Both the examples you've listed are approximations of physical processes and thus aren't really related to the topic at hand.

    The question you're posing doesn't relate to the brain, it relates to all of physics. Namely you're trying to ask if it's possible that every physical process can be completely and accurately described by math.
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    ►►Re: WHY THE BRAIN IS NOT A MACHINE◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    This has nothing to do with belief in a soul. If there are physical laws that are deterministic, but which cannot be computed by a given Turing machine (or an algorithm, since they are equivalent), and these laws can be harnessed to perform computations, then it must follow that it is physically possible for computers more computationally capable than the ones we have now to exist.

    It certainly seems to me that the mind is such a computer; I do not see where the idealism/dualism comes into play. Certainly one solution to the problem of a mind that is a hyper-Turing machine involves a mind that is not reducible to the brain, but it isn't necessary.
    So you think there are physical laws which apply to the brain which cannot be described mathematically? That sounds like a soul with more steps to me. There is no shame in believing in a soul, most of the world does so.

    Unless your point is that computers aren't yet powerful enough to simulate the brain, which is an even less interesting point.
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    ►►Re: WHY THE BRAIN IS NOT A MACHINE◄◄

    This discussion is complete intellectual masturbation on all sides and the point is entirely inarguable.

    The entire thing boils down to a decision tree with two branches

    1) Do you think the contents of the universe follow a deterministic set of laws that can be computed and/or mathematically modeled? If no then so-called algorithmic machines do not exist and the whole argument is moot.

    If yes, then:

    2) Do you believe the human brain is subject to the same rules as all other matter in the universe? If so, then the brain is necessarily a machine per this weird definition of "machine".
    3) If no, then you believe in some extra-physical process that comprise human thought, i.e. a soul.

    This entire thread, IMO, is the same as asking "Do you believe in a soul?" which is a very uninteresting conversation.
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    ►►Re: WHY THE BRAIN IS NOT A MACHINE◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    And what are these things in psychology and neuroscience that I need to know that would convince me otherwise?
    Oh no mate I have no idea, I know jack shit about psychology and neuroscience. It just seems to me, from reading your post, that your point is "I don't understand why I think the thinks that I do" and your conclusion is "the mind is not a machine" when it should be "I should learn psychology to learn more about the thinks".
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    ►►Re: WHY THE BRAIN IS NOT A MACHINE◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I was trying to start a debate about this but I don't know how to phrase my thoughts. I don't believe the mind is a machine because of the way I think, and the way others think. I often get stumped by logic where it seems logic leads to two mutually contradictory conclusions, there is something other than logic that often leads me to either pick one of them or formulate a new conclusion, and this something is NOT from a formal system

    You can do something without understanding what it is, and there's a very clear difference between doing with understanding and without, in behaviour. Give someone a list of instructions to follow without telling them what they do or what they're for. They will follow them and seem intelligent if you gave them something "smart" to do, but not have a fucking clue of what they're doing. It's like studying for an exam; there's a huge difference if you do it mechanically, and if you actually understand the material.

    This is basically what The Chinese Room Argument states, that mere algorithmic computation can never lead to understanding (and it is in effect devoid of "meaning"). If you were to accept the premise that mere computation is enough for understanding and consciousness, then it must follow that it does not matter how the computation is performed. This way, you can have a piece of paper that is conscious, or a system of water pipes that happens to implement an extremely complicated program. This is clearly absurd.

    On the other hand, if you were to accept the premise that the mind is indeed not a machine, then we have to extend the hierarchy of computational machines (and the definition of "computation") to include the mind as well. The hierarchy would now include the human mind as a hyper-turing machine (I suspect two or three levels up in the hierarchy compared to Turing machines, to leave space for animals and babies). This leads to some interesting conjectures in ethics and philosophy.

    Firstly, it implies that there is no single "rule" of morality that applies in all scenarios; not even multiple ones that apply in different contexts, but rather something that is a kind of "rule" that is non-algorithmic in nature. This does not necessarily mean that morality is subjective; it could be entirely objective but uncomputable by algorithmic means (would anyone even be surprised about that?).

    Second, it implies that the set of all possible thoughts humans can have is larger in size than the set of rational/integral/natural numbers, possibly as large as the set of irrationals, because otherwise Turing machines would be capable of generating all possible thoughts, as a kind of "language".

    Third, if you were to extend the notion of the halting problem to human beings (it has already been done for hypothetical hyper-turing machines, such as Oracle machines), then it might be the case that in the interactions between two or multiple human beings, the "optimal" solution in all scenarios (or any solution at all) is undecidable. Maybe the game of Mafia is undecidable, has anyone ever thought about that?
    A large part of your argument seems to hinge on you not knowing enough about psychology and/or neurology to understand the workings of your own brain. It's very odd that you take that to the conclusion that you do, and perhaps would be more readily solved by studying psychology and neurology, as well as accepting that those two fields still cannot yet answer every single process about how a human mind works because minds are complex.
  13. ►►Re: Critical Race Theory (CRT) and it's place in American race-relations.◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Space Milk View Post
    This is a narcissistic response, all of your posts in this thread are exercises not in dominating and humiliating Oberon - who has not wronged you in any capacity.
    Why did you decide to read my posts from like 2 years ago you absolute loser lmao
  14. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:you guys are idiots

    Thread Author:rumox

    Post Author:oops_ur_dead

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    ►►Re: you guys are idiots◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    I admittedly am salty over NFTs and Opensea for stealing artwork I commissioned and trying to sell it as an NFT, then making it very difficult to get it taken down despite the fact that I and the artist both were in agreement that it was a violation of our respective IPs.

    We did finally manage to get it pulled a few days before Christmas, though.
    I'm sure the guy who bought an NFT of a DMCA takedown notice was saltier tho lmao.

    My favourite bro finance moment was when Gamestop revealed that their master plan for no longer being the world's shittiest company was to create some sort of NFT marketplace. I can't take anyone who actually thinks Gamestop is worthwhile seriously anymore. They somehow downgraded from being a funko pop storefront by deciding to sell virtual funko pops instead. Unbelievable.
  15. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Union

    Thread Author:SuperJack

    Post Author:oops_ur_dead

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    ►►Re: Union◄◄

    I'm not a communist.
  16. Forum:Circlejerk

    Thread:I'm Being Censored

    Thread Author:HentaiManOfPeace

    Post Author:oops_ur_dead

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    ►►Re: I'm Being Censored◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    You are scum IRL
    That's very rude. Why would you say that to another person?
  17. Forum:Circlejerk

    Thread:I'm Being Censored

    Thread Author:HentaiManOfPeace

    Post Author:oops_ur_dead

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    ►►Re: I'm Being Censored◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Yours is pretty nondescript. I had more considered along the lines of an avatar being made to look innocent to give a subliminal feeling that the individual is innocent. Or I once used one that had an optical pattern which was difficult to focus on as scum thinking it may make me less memorable.
    Does my avatar make me look like scum?
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    ►►Re: Bitcoin is fucking dumb and useless◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeacesGhost View Post
    To answer your thread, the people who buy into it are the people who want it to succeed. So the only people you'll find vouching for this stuff are going to be the BTC and altcoin owners. This is no different than owning super expensive artwork. If you hype up the work of a dead artist's work that you own a lot of already, then when you sell you will gain incredible wealth. This is no different.

    Originally, the purpose of this coin was to be run on home PCs so that anyone can own the decentralized currency, especially in places of political volatility. But the bitcoin creators didn't have the foresight to: (1) create the proof-of-stake model first to avoid the wastefulness of cryto solving by high energy intensive ASICs and GPUs, and (2) see that big mining farms and big corporations were going to exploit it for more financial gain.

    By the way, I have to mention how disgusting your language is. This is very offensive to Canadians when you use the G-word.
    Treating bitcoin or any crypto as a speculative investment like that runs exactly contrary to its success as an actual currency. Hence, the people buying into it are either doing so to make money regardless of its success, or think they want it to succeed and that they're helping its success as an accepted currency but unfortunately they just aren't very bright. Often cryptobros believe both at the same time.

    PoS is a bad system for separate reasons. Sure, it's less power hungry, but it doesn't necessarily solve the transaction fee issue that's plaguing pretty much all major cryptos right now (for instance the transaction fees for ETH is in the tens to hundreds, and even BTC is about $15 right now). It's also much easier to perform a 51% attack on a PoS crypto since all it takes is just buying out 51% of the currency, while a 51% attack on a PoW crypto is less feasible due to cost and simple resource constraints.

    As a Canadian I understand the offence from the G-word, this is an issue I have spoken to admins with at length about. My use of the word is in protest to that, pointing out the absurdity of me being unable to use other descriptive language (since it would reduce fun) while considering such hateful terms as okay.
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    ►►Re: Bitcoin is fucking dumb and useless◄◄

    NFTs are also fucking stupid btw, actually they're even worse than bitcoin and anyone who is unironically into NFTs is a massive GOOF and they are GOOFY as fuck.

    I am honestly considering starting an NFT-based grift because I think people who are so GOOFY that they believe that NFTs are good deserve to get scammed for all their money.
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    ►►Re: Purpose of neopronouns?◄◄

    Also personally I don't put my pronouns anywhere because I'm very obviously male presenting. I've never had anyone get on my case over it or ask me for my pronouns, if it happened I would think it's kinda weird and I would probably judge them for trying too hard.
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    ►►Re: kyle rittenhouse◄◄

    https://apnews.com/article/kyle-ritt...420f88d0b8feb6

    It's all over.
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    ►►Re: Purpose of neopronouns?◄◄

    I have literally never met anyone in my life using these so-called "neopronouns". Until I do, I see no reason to expend effort thinking about it. I'm not sure why anyone else feels the need to, either.
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    ►►kyle rittenhouse◄◄

    kyle rittenhouse
  24. ►►Re: State of American Employment, benefits and lifestyle◄◄

    Every time I think about going back to America I remember that most jobs start with maybe 1 week of vacation time a year if you're lucky (more likely none, especially if it's a contract position) and if you get sick you have to take vacation days. Also you can get fired at any time without warning for absolutely no reason.

    There is no reason to want to work in America other than potentially getting paid more for certain jobs in certain areas.
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    ►►Re: How can one be against philosophy◄◄

    Philosophy is cool.

    Philosophy for the sole sake of intellectual masturbation is fucking cringe.

    Example: Philosophy of science is useful, it led to things like the scientific method.

    Arguing if Hitler was evil because of the philosophical definition of "evil" is cringe as fuck and a massive waste of time.
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    ►►Re: I don't like this new policy change tbh◄◄

    I'm not sure what your point is. I'm not "invalidating" math by calling it abstract nonsense, I'm describing it. Chemistry and physics are also abstract, though a bit less so.

    I'm not as smart or good at math as yzb but per my understanding the reason that one can definitively say 1+1=2 is because it's a conclusion that's derived from a fixed set of axioms that (pretty much) every mathematician takes as true to form the basis of what defines a natural number. Considering situations where 1+1=2 is false by looking at dubious examples concerning concepts that parallel the concepts tied to the symbols "1", "2", "+", and "=", like your paradox example or other examples in physics and chemistry (e.g. mixing solvents often results in a lower volume than the sum of the original volumes) is intellectual masturbation that serves no purpose.

    1+1=2 is true simply because that comes directly from the rules that I use to define what that sentence even means. You can say that one infinite set of points plus another infinite set of points equals a third set of infinite points but that's not the same as saying 1+1 does not equal 2 because those symbols and their meanings are not defined in terms of infinite sets of points.

    What you are saying is conceptually the same as someone saying "actually 1+1=4 because to me, 1 is what you call 2". They're not necessarily wrong (although perhaps less practical) but it has no bearing on my conclusion because we hold different things to be true.
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    ►►Re: I don't like this new policy change tbh◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I duno. Banach–Tarski paradox strongly suggests that 1+0= >2. I could regurgitate the proof to you or you could see it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banach...h_of_the_proof but either way there is a very substantial argument that 1+1 does not equal 2 assuming mathematics is a language that reflects reality and is not just abstract nonsense that just lines up well (although thats a debate in itself)
    I am firmly of the belief that math is abstract nonsense that lines up with reality sometimes. Hence, 1+1=2 because that is what we have defined it to be.
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    ►►Re: Who was the most evil person?◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    How about the most evil person we know first hand? For me it's someone I considered a friend at the time.

    This person hired a prostitute, met her at a motel and proceeded to stab her over and over again. The attack ended after he cut her neck with such force he nearly decapitated her. There was so much blood first responders were shocked it came from one person. He then went to the cinemas and watched Harry Potter.
    A cousin of a friend of mine joined ISIS and died in an airstrike. Didn't personally know him though.

    Can't think of anyone I personally know who did anything particularly evil.
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    ►►Re: I don't like this new policy change tbh◄◄

    I was ready to elaborate on my stance. I said my mind won't be changed which was absolutely true, same how nobody will change my mind on 1+1=2.
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    ►►Re: I don't like this new policy change tbh◄◄

    I have no idea why I got infracted for trolling.

    I feel bad for Mag. Whether it's fact or not homie genuinely feels like he's being attacked. I suspect this is also the core reason for some of his other beliefs but that's none of my business.
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    ►►Re: Who was the most evil person?◄◄

    Morality is subjective by the definition of the word "subjective".

    I refuse to change my opinion because I know I am right. Please do not gaslight me.
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    ►►Re: Who was the most evil person?◄◄

    Donnie D. King, CEO of Tyson Foods, for perpetuating a holocaust against millions of not billions of animals, is the most evil person in history.
  33. Forum:Forum Mafia Discussion

    Thread:QuickTopic is shutting down

    Thread Author:Lag

    Post Author:oops_ur_dead

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    ►►Re: QuickTopic is shutting down◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Yea you do. You could run it in the background when night starts, then shut it down when night ends. Would be nice to somewhat automate this I guess. Problem is, if you’re running it on your computer, what do you do when there’s a storm in your area and Internet goes down? Or what if there’s a power outage.

    Hypothetically, you could download some minimal OS and a virtual machine to run it in and just run the bot in that VM. If you could download a batch system (is that possible?) then you could just schedule the bot to run every X hours.

    OOOOORRRR you could just run it every X hours and put it to sleep regularly.
    this is docker lmao
  34. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Post your favourite songs

    Thread Author:Oberon

    Post Author:oops_ur_dead

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    ►►Re: Post your favourite songs◄◄

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nei8-u8t0SM
  35. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Post your favourite songs

    Thread Author:Oberon

    Post Author:oops_ur_dead

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    ►►Re: Post your favourite songs◄◄

    I also love this album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir_i4KGNyHw

    It's pretty unique musically and it's great how the production is so fucked that you can't tell whether you're hearing guitars, vocals, or synths.
  36. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Post your favourite songs

    Thread Author:Oberon

    Post Author:oops_ur_dead

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    ►►Re: Post your favourite songs◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Btw @oops_ur_dead the depressive black metal
    you linked earlier isn’t bad, but the vocals... the growling... ugh. They really weren’t necessary XD
    Make a Change... Kill Yourself isn't my favourite tbh, it's just a meme because the name is edgy. I usually listen to music with harsh vocals though, but they're ok at best in the one I linked.

    If you want something like Consider Suicide (and by the same guy) but a little "harder", try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Txb2IBcoE

    Or this if you don't want to listen to an hour long song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssLKLybePLE
  37. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Post your favourite songs

    Thread Author:Oberon

    Post Author:oops_ur_dead

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    ►►Re: Post your favourite songs◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Instrumentals are the best
    I think you might like this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6u9ABLqldI
  38. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Steam Deck & Linux

    Thread Author:SuperJack

    Post Author:oops_ur_dead

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    ►►Re: Steam Deck & Linux◄◄

    steam dick
  39. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Arizona Election Proven Stolen

    Thread Author:Voss

    Post Author:oops_ur_dead

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    ►►Re: Arizona Election Proven Stolen◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I'm glad I wasn't alone with this feeling
    The site is literally a big inflated bubble without content


    LOL
    And when you scroll down it tells you "you've been selected"... selected for what, you don't even really know, it seems to imply "selected for giving money"..........

    thx
    As someone who works in the industry of convincing other people to give up their money, dumb persuasion messages like this work much better than you expect. They work even if you consciously realize they're bullshit. Social pressure is unreasonably effective.
  40. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Arizona Election Proven Stolen

    Thread Author:Voss

    Post Author:oops_ur_dead

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    ►►Re: Arizona Election Proven Stolen◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Wait, that was it?

    Like there wasn't more text to the statement?
    Have you seen the President's website? Try to click on the "Contribute" button in the top right for a laugh.
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    Poll: ►►Re: covid 19 vaccine◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyWho View Post
    That was my concern, among others.
    You make it sound like my individual concerns reflect that of everyone.

    I'm fairly certain that the most popular concern against the vaccines around the world is people seeing more and heavier side effects from them as they should from published statistics.

    There's a little bit of double standard in that regard on the web, as I see it. On the one hand - seemingly everything has been linked to long term effects of the virus and it needs more testing/research/studies. On the other hand - don't worry about the possible vaccine side effects, as disastrous as some of the cases it might be, because they're rare, no need for more research.

    Some people knowing personally more cases of bad side effects than should be statistically likely might make for an anecdotal case, as that's not how statistics work. And it doesn't help that so many rely on "I heard of that one guy who personally knows x cases of y side effect". But I see it as a perfectly human reason for concern.


    Btw, SB16, here in my country - teachers are (technically not for a few months still) forced to vaccinate to be allowed to work as teachers. And even without that, the amount of restrictions people have if not vaccinated makes for a bad case for "you've a choice".
    That teacher thing is weird tbh. Because children are not a risk group, while on the other hand doctors, who're in contact with risk groups daily, are not mandated to get vaccinated. :/
    I disagree about your statement that we aren't "allowed" to worry about vaccine side effects. I actually think it's the opposite, that people are being extremely cautious about the vaccines and that you haven't heard of a huge number of problems should be reassuring. If you remember, early in 2021 world governments pretty much shut down the AZ vaccine because of a scare about an increased number of blood clots. Even though an extremely small number of people had it, and tbh I don't even think a causal link or even a conclusive correlation was established, a lot of countries stopped vaccinating people with AZ, and a lot of countries still don't vaccinate young people with it. Even though many more children have died from COVID (children are, of course, very unlikely to die from COVID) than everyone who's died from these supposed vaccine-linked blood clots.

    Long-term side effects are a scare point. No vaccine has ever had long-term side effects, with the exception of viruses that for whatever reason are deadlier upon second infection (like dengue fever). All adverse effects are limited to 2 months post-vaccination. Meanwhile, COVID has been shown to have long-term side effects, such as reduced lung capacity due to tissue damage, neurological symptoms, and effects on fertility. It's bizarre to me that people worry more about long-term effects from a vaccine than the virus itself, you know the virus is also just as new as the vaccine and we have just as little data about its long-term effects, right?

    Vaccine mandates are also nothing new, they've happened before, they just haven't been politicized and turned into a wedge issue. When I moved to the US I had to get blood tests showing I have specific vaccines for them to even let me in. They even had to test me for tuberculosis.
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    Poll: ►►Re: covid 19 vaccine◄◄

    New conspiracy theory: George Floyd took the experimental COVID vaccine, they knew he was gonna die, so they got some cops to stage a killing to cover up the dangers of the vaccine.

    I figured it out.
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    Poll: ►►Re: covid 19 vaccine◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Vaccine mandates and abortions are a false equivalency and a Faux News talking point. And I'm pretty sure we can talk about vaccines without expanding the scope into abortions.

    But I'm not surprised. Reminds me of the time you started ranting about climate change when we were talking about riots and protests. Typical Oberon tactic to change the subject when they debate gets tough. Is this the point where we start talking about Texas and guns and maybe George Floyd?
    Ironic how liberals think it's okay to force people to take vaccines that kill you but get mad when cops force George Floyd to die (btw George Floyd actually died of fentanyl overdose).
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    Poll: ►►Re: covid 19 vaccine◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    What the fuck are you even on about? Literally nothing was proven wrong. I am disputing the CDC data because it’s garbage. 400,000 extra deaths literally makes no sense. How does one fail to report a death? It is literally the most clear outcome you could have - dead or not dead. It’s not even deaths with COVID which we could be debating about. And yet they missed out on so many deaths? Btw if we say that 266,000
    people died in January then the death rate is actually off by 6% - 3 times the amount that the CDC gave! Bullshit.

    Also funny how that 0.4mln figure corresponds closely to the number of deaths from COVID - 0.377mln
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I also find it funny people use such terms as antivaxxer to describe those reticent about the vaccine. The COVID vaccine is not like other vaccines, for 3 big reasons. Many people are in doubt over the lethality of COVID so telling them to get the vaccine for something that is fairly benign is a bit much, it offers little advantage (and also little risk but from their perspective the risk is unnecessary). Second, it is actually abusive to force people to get vaccinated, and illegal. And immoral. Funnily all these people are probably thr same crowd who would be very pro-abortion but the second an old white man tells them what to do with their bodies they jump right along. My body = your choice? If you believe that people shoild be pressured into getting vaccinatrd (which doesnt really make sense, as the vaccine is not inoculating), then make that your motto! LOL

    Third, unlike other vaccines which have a decade or more of research behind them, the COVID vaccine is a year old. Not sure who’s the ‘antivaxxer’ here in terms of thinking ability.
    Warning: By his own admission, Oberon purposefully does not read, evaluate, nor think critically about any opinion he disagrees with, and in fact, he often does not even read or evaluate his own sources. When discussing matters of politics with him, it is safe to assume anything he posts is a falsehood unless evaluated independently by yourself or another person. Any discussion with him will end in an intellectual black hole, as he will refuse to consider other viewpoints and ignore your posts, and never admit that anything he has posted is wrong even if proven so. Tread carefully.
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    Poll: ►►Re: covid 19 vaccine◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    Stealth's opinion was swayed due to different discussions happening simultaneously, iirc. It wasn't really connected to any shitfling with mag.

    May I ask why the thought of allowing people to "spam misinformation and fake news" causes you distress? Personally, it bothers me when I'm concerned it will spread. I don't care if a television is playing fox news in a secluded forest, and I'm the only one who happens to see it. And I care much more when powerful people spread fake news than randos on the internet.

    Anyway, to answer the question, in my ideal world, each person would try to exercise self control and reply only to posts they find interesting, or when they think a valuable discussion could come out of it. If they struggle to see the value of the subsequent discussion, they wouldn't hit send. Inane posts would be ignored, or given a short but polite reply - in other words, a level of attention befitting the value of the post. They certainly wouldn't be goaded into further arguing for their views, because that physcally increases the length and quantity of inane discussions.
    I'll be honest man, I mostly debate because it's fun. It's like a never-ending series of logic puzzles where you gotta spot the mistake in each individual post.

    I'm a bit less optimistic about how impressionable people are than you are. I think that seeing unchallenged points, especially when they're falsified to be provocative, makes a subtle subconscious impression on people. Especially when the same talking point is seen multiple times in different contexts. I know I've personally repeated talking points and factoids that actually ended up being false when I looked into them and I had no idea where I even picked them up from.

    As aamirus said, it's also useful to look into the viewpoints of other people, and also understand how they think.

    Maybe I'm also still hopelessly optimistic that mag will one day get tired of always being wrong and take a close look at himself to figure out why that is. That is, if he isn't trolling, which I can't be sure of.
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    Poll: ►►Re: covid 19 vaccine◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    Are you actually concerned anyone on the site would be swayed by mag's posts tho? Conversely, can you name a single republican/conservative leaning person on the site who reads these threads and has their mind changed after seeing mag's points dismantled? I really struggle to see the positive utility to this discussion, on a political level.
    I agree, Mag probably doesn't really convince anyone (tho I do recall someone actually being swayed to vote for Biden where they were undecided before because of one of these discussions, I forget who). But I also don't like the idea of allowing anyone to effectively spam misinformation and fake news. What should happen, in your opinion?
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    Poll: ►►Re: covid 19 vaccine◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    It'd be nice to have just some sort of copy/paste block showing that Oberon doesn't read and shouldn't be taken seriously. Kind of hard to do that from this thread because there are so many blocks of content.

    Then again, eventually someone could point to that block and call it stale.
    Warning: By his own admission, Oberon purposefully does not read, evaluate, nor think critically about any opinion he disagrees with, and in fact, he often does not even read or evaluate his own sources. When discussing matters of politics with him, it is safe to assume anything he posts is a falsehood unless evaluated independently by yourself or another person. Any discussion with him will end in an intellectual black hole, as he will refuse to consider other viewpoints and ignore your posts, and never admit that anything he has posted is wrong even if proven so. Tread carefully.
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    Poll: ►►Re: covid 19 vaccine◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    It's interesting that you spontaneously think my post was about you :P. You're far from being the only culprit here. But if the hat fits...

    For the record, I too wonder where the heck Mag is getting his data from lol. But you all are trying to prove eachother wrong instead of simply seeking truth and trying to prove your point constructively (now you'll say that in your case it's legitimate because he's the one bringing in weird data and interpretations, but you also did before the weird data). It's not healthy, it's not fun, and it's not useful. Like, there's no reason to carry on.

    And Ozy, I wasn't saying debate is bad at all. I was saying this was not debate, but rather what could be colloquially described as shit flinging. I'm a big fan of the former, but deeply dislike the latter.
    What is the alternative? Should we ignore someone trying to blatantly spread misinformation and fake data/news?
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    Poll: ►►Re: covid 19 vaccine◄◄

    My severe ADHD mandates that I write at least an essay every time I post, but it only takes one sentence to invalidate your arguments.
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    Poll: ►►Re: covid 19 vaccine◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    It's sad that y'all have to expel so much effort to, point by point, deconstruct someone's argument; this individual being someone that has shown multiple times to wade into an argument refusing to even read sources let alone understand them.
    It's not like it takes time, Oberon's posts are usually so fucking stupid that it takes like one minute to find some critical issue like leaving out an entire month's worth of data or cutting off a timeseries graph before COVID started.

    I don't think Oberon will ever be convinced, he's too far gone. He even prides himself on not thinking critically. This is more about highlighting blatant misinformation and lying from him, for the sake of other people. I'm pretty sure Oberon has done more to hurt conservatives/Republicans than help by making it so obvious how bad their arguments and stances are.
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