More options are better than no options.
Executioner night immunity provides interesting mechanical play between themselves and other roles with night immunity.
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More options are better than no options.
Executioner night immunity provides interesting mechanical play between themselves and other roles with night immunity.
howQuote:
Originally Posted by Renegade
I agree. Taking away options to suit how a minority of people believe a role should be played isn't the best direction this mod should be taken. Options should not be taken away. Night Immune Executioner should be a choice.
I think a fine compromise would be leave the role as it is currently in the presets, but give the option for NI in custom saves. Give people their choice back!
As NK you can claim or feign exe to survive, it has worked well for me in the past, in case you survive a night shot from a vigi or a spy outs that you were attacked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frinckles
Well u can still claim Survivor, in most saves it will be the same slot and same chance.
Executioner is by far the easiest role to win as. It arguably should have “needs to survive til end on” along with this change to make it have a normal win rate. I get people like being the invulnerable gets to pick who wins person but it’s objectively dumb lol
You didn't read when Ren's point wasQuote:
Originally Posted by aamirus
As an NK you can no longer fake claim exec (get shot by vigi) then feign that you are exec and that it confirms you. I used that strategy in 1.0 as well and it works fairly well. Without it it basically removes an element of GF/Arso/SK/MM's gameplay as well as Execs own gameplay.
I think if survive until the end were implemented and exec were given night immunity it would balance out the role, as it would potentially force town to lynch them.
What* not whenQuote:
Originally Posted by Varcron
A lot of failors and gglantes are too much of cheapskates to use their shots on neutrals. You can still troll as NK the whole game and they won't exe/shoot you.
Night Immunity. But only available if Survive to end is also on.
They are usually too busy killing random people since n1/n2.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMostache
That's a community meta problem yetQuote:
Originally Posted by MrMostache
People try to be too perfect with their shots, if you got a neutral you shoot the neutral especially if it's an exec or someone claiming to be one
Agreed, this makes the most sense. If that seems to hard what you could do is survive until X day (day 2, 3, 4, 5 as an option) not sure how that would work though.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperJack
Ni for Survive to end is a good solution, I always have preferred an exe having to survive so they don't drop the dumb d2 claims and actually play.
But baking it in the role and not giving the option is not a good idea, maybe include that in the default setups, but we still need the NI option back.
fair, but do u agree that NI + does not need to survive til end + target is not always town = way too powerful role that needs some kind of nerf?Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade
I mean Judge with 4 votes, 2 courts; Marshall with 4 executions, 2 lynches; Investigator with exact role detection on are also OP roles yet those options are there.Quote:
Originally Posted by aamirus
And they likely should be. The topic is on executioner so I'm hearing some arguments about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RufusPL
I mean, I agree with Rufus.Quote:
Originally Posted by aamirus
There are all sorts of broken combinations, but the options still exist.
I made my point on Discord before this thread was made but I'll reiterate my points here:
(1) It doesn't make sense for Executioner to have night immunity
Executioner's wincon is to see his target lynched during the day.
He does not need night immunity for his wincon anymore than other roles do theirs
Exceptions are:
- GF/DH and NK - Essential to game balance and KPN
- Survivor - Entire shtick is to survive to the end of the game
(2) Executioner already has a safety net - Turn into Jester if target is killed
No other role has this safety net
This made 1.0 Executioner ridiculously strong compared to other roles: Can't be killed at night, high risk of people refusing to lynch during the day, and getting new wincon after failing original wincon
As aamirus correctly says:
As someone who prefers Executioner every match and enjoys goofing around without repercussions, I support the removal of NI.Quote:
Originally Posted by aamirus
Let's not pretend 1.0 Executioner wasn't crazy broken.
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As for the point brought up in this thread about interaction with other roles:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade
As Rufus says, players can still claim Survivor:Quote:
Originally Posted by Varcron
Quote:
Originally Posted by RufusPL
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My view on meeting halfway rather than removing the option entirely:
This "compromise" is no compromise.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperJack
The role was ridiculously OP to begin with.
There is no need for arbitrary conditions to be implemented.
What's next? NI for Amnesiac until he picks his role? NI for Disguiser until he uses his disguise? NI for Sheriff until he successfully finds a lead?
* * * * *
With regards to existing OP options:
This is unfortunately true and I hope the more extreme options will be removed in future.Quote:
Originally Posted by RufusPL
E.g. Unlimited alert Veterans, unlimited shot Vigilantes, unlimited execute Jailors.
Maybe these OP options can be implemented in some sort of Chaos mode (e.g. "Failors Galore for Dummies" or "Big Shiny Roles for the Easily Amused"), but removed from custom and default setups.
* * * * *
Lastly, with regards to giving people more flexibility in their setups:
By this logic ALL roles should have the option for NI (and detect immunity, block immunity, unblockable kills, whatever else you can think of, etc), and leave it for hosts to balance their setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veliaire
This is a terrible idea.
The setup system should be flexible - and it is - but it shouldn't throw balance completely out of the window.
I reiterate again that there is no reason for Executioner specifically to have NI.
I think you should return Exe NI checkbox.
Solely because people like it.
Just make people happy, man.
Imagine living life like it's a popularity contest... Unfortunately this does not always equate to the best outcome.
I agree, they could claim survivor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exeter
But as you know gov typically lynches surv claims unless there is a miracle. How often do you see gov lynch an exec claim that has already won?
It gives evils more of a shot at claiming a role and be believed than claiming doc, oracle, BG, sheriff (the list goes on)
-support
Executioner was too easy a role to win in 1.0, and a low-commitment claim for GF/DH.
I never want Executioner Night Immune back. One day we have it as an de jure option, and the next it becomes de facto default among all saves again. We need to force people to re-evaluate Exe's role and play by not re-adding NI.